INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: IlluSionS667 on July 28, 2008, 05:41:35 AM
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Considering none of you seems to be willing to do some reading on the Holocaust myth, maybe a video documentary would be more useful :
The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz -- Part 1
David Cole - The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 1 of 2 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=976870941610001004)
The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz -- Part 2
David Cole - The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 2 of 2 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-441640420550012012)
Other videos of interest :
Judea Declares War on Germany
Judea Declares War on Germany (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901)
The Persecution of Revisionists: The Holocaust Unveiled
The Persecution of Revisionists: The Holocaust Unveiled (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4393184127249550554)
One Third of the Holocaust
One Third of the Holocaust (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6027933199431130108)
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No thanks.
I did find this interesting Video though
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yu2NqfISm9k
Not sure if it furthers your arguments and debates though.
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No thanks.
Now I did start a separate thread and you're still trolling..... What's your excuse this time?!?
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I personally think that the Holocaust cannot be rationally denied. However, I would read those who call it a myth if I had a reason to research the matter. In my time I have read a lot of material I do not agree with.
I do not wish to trawl around finding where you have posted things before. I'm quite new to the forum. However, could you concisely state the thing that most struck you to make you consider it a myth rather than real? I hope I am not asking you to repeat yourself :)
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I personally think that the Holocaust cannot be rationally denied. However, I would read those who call it a myth if I had a reason to research the matter. In my time I have read a lot of material I do not agree with.
Watch either video that I posted. It takes just a small amount of your time and gives you many reasons why the "6 million murdered Jews" story is a myth. I personally like the first video because it is made by a Jew and it asks questions rather than pushing a conclusion onto you, although it leaves only one possible conclusion....
I do not wish to trawl around finding where you have posted things before. I'm quite new to the forum. However, could you concisely state the thing that most struck you to make you consider it a myth rather than real?
There was just too much that didn't make any sense. Was the mass murder of the Jews something everyone knew about or something only a handful of people were aware of? Was it a plan that was graduately set in motion ever since 1933, was it decided at the Wannsee Conference or did it just take place spontaneously without any plan at all? Do thousands of documents prove the genocidal plan or is there no evidence left because the "nazis" burned all the evidence? Different historians contradict one another on all of these aspects. Also, why did the Germans destroy every evidence of gassing victims but did they leave piles of bodies of typhus and starvation victims just waiting to be found by the allies at Dachau and Bergen-Belsen (confirmed as typhus and starvation victims by autopsies)? etc. etc.
So I did my research and came to the shocking conclusion that lost of what I had learnt about the so-called "Holocaust" was a fabrication.
I hope I am not asking you to repeat yourself :)
Obviously, I've discussed this topic myriads of times before ;)
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Considering none of you seems to be willing to do some reading on the Holocaust myth, maybe a video documentary would be more useful :
David Cole - The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 1 of 2 (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=976870941610001004")
David Cole - The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 2 of 2 (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-441640420550012012&q=&hl=en")
Other videos of interest :
Judea Declares War on Germany (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901")
The Persecution of Revisionists: The Holocaust Unveiled (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4393184127249550554")
One Third of the Holocaust (http://"http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6027933199431130108")
All vids "Server not found"
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Thank you for your reply, IlluSionS667. Unfortunately none of the links you posted appear to work. I guess the videos have been taken down.
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I seem to have put my links between quotes, which is why they didn't work.
I just changed my first post. Now you should be able to play the videos even from this very thread.
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I personally think that the Holocaust cannot be rationally denied. However, I would read those who call it a myth if I had a reason to research the matter. In my time I have read a lot of material I do not agree with.
I do not wish to trawl around finding where you have posted things before. I'm quite new to the forum. However, could you concisely state the thing that most struck you to make you consider it a myth rather than real? I hope I am not asking you to repeat yourself :)
I don't think he would be offended at another playmate to talk to in relation to Holocaust Denial. It would perhaps pay you to read just one thread Nocturnalist to see what kind of theory he is espousing. It is different. http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,7203.15.html (Post #20) Enter Illusionist.
My apologies for the offense Illusionist. Mel Brooks has a nice Nazi Uniform and as I remember rightly it was a parody in respect to WW2. I thought in respect to your view of the Holocaust tragedy, you would enjoy it or at least find some relevance. No? Not at all? Shame.
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Anyway.... anyone too lazy to do some reading is now able to at least watch these films. They may not be of the highest quality with regards to editing standards (they surely weren't produced by professional film makers), however their content is excellent and a must see for anyone interested in the Holocaust myth.
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Thanks.
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I don't think he would be offended at another playmate to talk to in relation to Holocaust Denial. It would perhaps pay you to read just one thread Nocturnalist to see what kind of theory he is espousing. It is different. http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,7203.15.html (Post #20) Enter Illusionist.
Thanks for the link. I have seen some of his posts here and where he is coming from. Unlike you, whilst I am revolted by those theories, I do not feel so threatened by it that I simply insult him without giving him some sort of hearing.
I mean, lets face it, somebody has only to be what you consider disrespectful to your person (even if they are not being) for you to start acting up and whimpering. I have a bit of a stronger stomach perhaps. :evillaugh:
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Right so you think putting a pre-cursor of "Let's face it" makes it Fact? :clap:
Interesting I will try.
"Let's face it, you're an idiot".
Hey what do you know. ;D
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Thanks for the link. I have seen some of his posts here and where he is coming from. Unlike you, whilst I am revolted by those theories, I do not feel so threatened by it that I simply insult him without giving him some sort of hearing.
Why are you revolted by my views? What makes you so convinced that my views are wrong?
Have you seen any of the vids? If so, can you comment on them?
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Why are you revolted by my views? What makes you so convinced that my views are wrong?
Don't worry, I'm simply being honest about how I view revisionist history regarding the Holocaust. I'm a traditionalist at present time because I see no reason not to be. If the Holocaust happened, which I certainly believe it did, then it is rather revolting to try and say it didn't happen. I am open to examine some of the evidence though when I have the time... and it may lead me into further exploration, but that is my position at present. :)
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Right so you think putting a pre-cursor of "Let's face it" makes it Fact? :clap:
Nah. The fact that what you considered as my lack of respect towards you was one of the things you whittered on about in PMs with me. :violin:
I honestly don't care what you insist or demand. Prepared to treat me with respect and common courtesy and who knows?
See. Your very first whine at me was all about what you perceived as my lack of respect and courtesy towards you... after you had been very discourteous towards another member of the forum I Adminned. You seem to think you automatically deserve respect and do not realise that it is earned. :green:
Interesting I will try.
"Let's face it, you're an idiot".
When I was a school boy I had a Maths teacher who spoke to my parents concerned that I might be mentally retarded. So you're not alone in thinking this ;D No shame in being an idiot. I don't think you're the brightest tool in the box either. :-*
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Ah what a knob. That was not a whine. That was just saying that the way to best put things to me was wit a bit of respect and courtesy, IF you wanted less"friction". In the same way that putting the metal knife in the toaster is not going to be the best way to get out the toast UNLESS you don't care about being electrocuted ( recommend this to you wholeheartedly). I honestly don't give a fuck. Do whatever blows your hair back. I do this you are derailing poor Mr Illusionists's thread here though and I think he wants to tell you some nice ideas about how millions of Jews weren't killed in death camps and stuff. Such disrespect shown to him too.
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That was not a whine.
OK, it was a widdle puppy yelp then :smarty: - lol
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Don't worry, I'm simply being honest about how I view revisionist history regarding the Holocaust.
You try to be honest while refraining from insults and I can only respect that.
I'm a traditionalist at present time because I see no reason not to be. If the Holocaust happened, which I certainly believe it did, then it is rather revolting to try and say it didn't happen. I am open to examine some of the evidence though when I have the time... and it may lead me into further exploration, but that is my position at present. :)
Is it also revolting to question whether the US had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor? Is it also revolting to question whether the CIA and/or Mossad were involved in the attacks of 9/11? Is it also revolting to question whether or not the Lusitania contained explosives? Is it also revolting you question whether Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, James Earl Ray, Talmadge Hayer and John Patler were all lone gunmen?
Why is it that fairly few people tend to get emotional when someone questions the status quo on the topics mentioned above, whereas they get angry or disgusted when someone questions the status quo with regards to the fate of the Jews during WW2? Why does this particular part of our history get so much attention, including the erection of dozens of monuments all over the Western world and special censorship laws in various countries? Why have faculties been dedicated to just this particular topic?
Some argue that (under the assumption that the Holocaust myth is entirely factual) it is the worst crime in the history of man. I wonder what measures of comparison are used, though. US and English bombers killed tends of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people in a single day and under the most horrible circumstances in cities like Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Dresden. During the latest years of WW2 and in its aftermath, millions of innocent Germans were forced out of their homes, tortured, raped or killed by the allies. Others found their deaths in one of the Russian or American camps. Communist leaders like Trotsky, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao are responsible for the death of many many millions under the most horrible circumstances. Hutus and Tutsis have been killing one another for years in Rwanda. During the Boer Wars, the British sent women and children to concentration camps with little food and medicine (on purpose !) to discourage the Boer fighters at the front as their family was dying in those camps. etc. etc. The Holocaust myth is hardly the only reference to man's inhumanity to man and even if the myth was entirely true, one should wonder what makes it stand out among the many crimes against humanity commited during the last 150 years alone.
Some argue that denying that 6 million Jews died as a consequence of genocide is similar to a call for genocide. This is a completely illogical statement, however, that holds no ground. Even if it were true that all Holocaust Revisionists were national-socialist apologists or antisemites (which is far from the truth), then this is by no means an indication that Holocaust Revisionism is remotely linked to a call for genocide. Such a link is an obvious attempt to silence debate by stirring emotions.
Yet, even those arguments shouldn't be a reason to stop or discourage objective research into the events that took place between 1933 and 1945 with regards to the Jews in German controlled territories. If there is even the slightest reason to doubt the status quo, then one should be able to examen the evidence and find out whether or not another conclusion might fit the evidence better. Currently, this has been made impossible by especially ancient aliens (who use the Holocaust myth for both political and monetary gain).
I suggest you watch at least one of the videos in the first post of this thread and post a review of it in this thread after you finished watching. It would give you some insight into the arguments used by Holocaust revisionists, it would liven up the debate and would only take a small amount of time ;)
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I'm a traditionalist at present time because I see no reason not to be. If the Holocaust happened, which I certainly believe it did, then it is rather revolting to try and say it didn't happen.
Is it also revolting to question whether the US had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor? Is it also revolting to question whether the CIA and/or Mossad were involved in the attacks of 9/11? Is it also revolting to question whether or not the Lusitania contained explosives? Is it also revolting you question whether Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, James Earl Ray, Talmadge Hayer and John Patler were all lone gunmen?
I don't think the CIA or Mossad had a hand in 9/11 too much risk of exposure if they were found out (I've heard the tale that Jewish workers in the towers stayed away on that day... but that is a rumour with no truth to it)... but I think it is likely American Intelligence services had pre-warning of the attack and didn't take heed - because they get a lot of warnings. Much the same as happens in many serial killer cases, where crucial evidence can get lost among bogus evidence. I also think the Bush administration used 9?11 as an excuse to wage war on Saddam... awful despot that he was, the reasons for that second Gulf War were bogus. I think Pearl Harbour happened because of a whole clutch of mistakes that, looking back on, seem very foolish.
I tend to be skeptical about most conspiracy theories I hear, but some hold water and seem to add up, whilst many others are quite far fetched. Governments and officials are usually opportunists rather than clever enough to hatch many of the schemes some suspect :)
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I don't think the CIA or Mossad had a hand in 9/11 too much risk of exposure if they were found out
CIA, Mossad and MI6 have quite a long history of staging world events and manipulating public opinion. You seriously underestimate their potential and the gullibility of common man. Most people are willing to accept just about anything when it is told to them by their history teacher or the New York Times.
I've heard the tale that Jewish workers in the towers stayed away on that day... but that is a rumour with no truth to it
Maybe that rumour was spread to discredit the most gullible conspiracy theorists and by proxy the 9/11 movement in general ;)
The extatic Israeli watching the events from the top of a building, that was factual. They were even interviewed on public television.
I've Much the same as happens in many serial killer cases, where crucial evidence can get lost among bogus evidence.
Serial killers are another thing, but the political assassinations of the '60s just smell like CIA hits. Especially the JFK and Bobby Kennedy assassinations have CIA written all over them.
I tend to be skeptical about most conspiracy theories I hear, but some hold water and seem to add up, whilst many others are quite far fetched.
I tend to be skeptical about all explanations of world events, both from so-called "conspiracy theorists" and the mainstream media. I have no reason to trust your average "conspiracy theorist" but I don't have any reason to trust the mainstream media either. As long as you start taking either for granted, you're allowing yourself to be manipulated.
Anyway, will you watch any of the films from my first post? You seem to be avoiding that for a reason unclear to me.....
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Anyway, will you watch any of the films from my first post? You seem to be avoiding that for a reason unclear to me.....
Be patient. I intend to watch them. Last time I tried the links didn't work. I trust they will work when next I try. I'm not likely to give much feedback on them though. They will either spark my interest to investigate further, or they won't. I'll tell you if they don't :)
You can only present your point of view and evidence you see as supporting it. Most of us cannot make another person accept things if they don't wish or don't see it the way we do... if you try it'll just stress you out eventually, espeiclally if few people listen :)
It will take a lot of time and a lot of research for me to adopt a new position if at all. I'll be honest, it is unlikely that I will change my mind.
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Be patient. I intend to watch them. Last time I tried the links didn't work. I trust they will work when next I try. I'm not likely to give much feedback on them though. They will either spark my interest to investigate further, or they won't. I'll tell you if they don't :)
Fair enough. I can strongly recommend the David Cole vid (first two links). This, partly because the author is Jewish himself, which makes an antisemitic agenda unlikely. Another reason is because his technique consists of asking questions rather than making conclusions. As such, you do not feel pushed into accepting his conclusions. He rather encourages you to think for yourself.
You can only present your point of view and evidence you see as supporting it.
Not really. I can also present evidence for the other side and explain why it fails to prove anything. I studied the two perspectives, you know ;)
Most of us cannot make another person accept things if they don't wish or don't see it the way we do...
I don't want to make anyone accept anything. I just want to encourage people to do some more research and not only look at issues from one particular perspective but rather from all possible angles.
It will take a lot of time and a lot of research for me to adopt a new position if at all. I'll be honest, it is unlikely that I will change my mind.
At least on surface you appear to be willing to look into the issue rather than dismissing the alternative view right away. That's more than I can say of most people out here....
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It will take a lot of time and a lot of research for me to adopt a new position if at all. I'll be honest, it is unlikely that I will change my mind.
At least on surface you appear to be willing to look into the issue rather than dismissing the alternative view right away. That's more than I can say of most people out here....
I can understand why you say this. A lot of people put on one face for one person and another for others. I think everybody is like this to one extent or another. I've read lots of books expressly because I disagree with their position... I see it as necessary when one believes something firmly. You've been mobbed here somewhat (regardless of the reasons), you've stuck it out, and I have no wish to join a mob, so I will watch these videos when I make the time to do so. I prefer books for educational purposes, but I'll watch these... just not quite yet... I wish to be in the mood first :) There's no hurry.
I've not done much in the way of research into the Holocaust. I research according to what takes my fancy enough to put the work into. When I do this, I usually try and get the best materials I can from all sides. I'm not saying I'll do this in this case. However, if the videos cause me to be interested enough, then I will look into it further until I have satisfied myself :)
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You've been mobbed here somewhat (regardless of the reasons), you've stuck it out, and I have no wish to join a mob, so I will watch these videos when I make the time to do so. I prefer books for educational purposes, but I'll watch these... just not quite yet... I wish to be in the mood first :) There's no hurry.
If you wish, I can provide you with a bunch of book titles (some of which are available as free E-books). I also prefer books for educational purposes as they usually go much deeper into the topic and they tend to provide far more source references. Nevertheless, I learned that few people are interested to actually read a book unless they have the impression it will confirm their prejudices. More are willing to watch a video, considering it tends to take a lot less time. Also, it tends to be easier to explan something with images and words than with words alone.
Do note, however, that the editing of the videos in question is quite poor and unprofessional. Do not let yourself be discouraged by that and try to focus on the actual content.
I've not done much in the way of research into the Holocaust. I research according to what takes my fancy enough to put the work into. When I do this, I usually try and get the best materials I can from all sides. I'm not saying I'll do this in this case. However, if the videos cause me to be interested enough, then I will look into it further until I have satisfied myself :)
This is exactly the same attitude I try to have :)
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Do note, however, that the editing of the videos in question is quite poor and unprofessional. Do not let yourself be discouraged by that and try to focus on the actual content.
Don't worry about the editing. I don't require a glossy presentation.
About the books... I may get back to you on that if the videos capture my interest. I don't wish to be buried in information before I've found out whether I am interested enough or not to look into it further :) Thanks for the offer though.
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It's more than a week since I posted the vids and no one thusfar managed to provide a single argument against the views expressed in them. Quite remarkable ;)
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Let's face it, the moon is made of cheese and Illusionist needs more bitch-slapping.
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I read an article in a Sunday magazine a few weeks ago.
It was about holiday trips and a tour around one of the death camps and gas chambers ( I can't remember which one).
I don't feel the need to visit anywhere in particular ( maybe Olso and the Munch museum) but it did peak my interest.
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I read an article in a Sunday magazine a few weeks ago.
It was about holiday trips and a tour around one of the death camps and gas chambers ( I can't remember which one).
I don't feel the need to visit anywhere in particular ( maybe Olso and the Munch museum) but it did peak my interest.
I have read and seen books, tv shows about the death camps and spoken to a few US soldiers who survived being POW's and Death March survivors. (from my Home health nursing career)
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Let's face it, the moon is made of cheese and Illusionist needs more bitch-slapping.
Let's face it : you have no arguments whatsoever against any of these vids.
I have read and seen books, tv shows about the death camps and spoken to a few US soldiers who survived being POW's and Death March survivors. (from my Home health nursing career)
Most books and TV shows on the topic contain lots of propaganda mixed in with the facts.
US soldiers I expect to tell the truth, however. They have little interest in lying about their experiences. Feel free to explain how the testimonies you mentioned contradict any of the videos.
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Let's face it, the moon is made of cheese and Illusionist needs more bitch-slapping.
Let's face it : you have no arguments whatsoever against any of these vids.
Let's face it, the moon is actually made of cheese. Prove me wrong. :hahaha:
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Let's face it, the moon is actually made of cheese. Prove me wrong. :hahaha:
First of all, there is no evidence whatsoever in favor of the claim that the moon is made of cheese. All we have, is the imagination of individuals like Nick Park (cfr. Wallace & Gromit) which doesn't apply as evidence.
Second, there are various arguments against the moon being made of cheese :
*) samples of the moon surface show no traces of cheese.
*) photographs of the moon show traces of meteors having hit the moon. If the moon had been of cheese, these meteorites would have done a lot more damage.
*) where would the milk have come from to produce the cheese? There is no explanation for that.
*) Maximum temperatures of the moon are about 390 K. I'm pretty sure cheese would melt at that temperature, which in turn would result in a much smoother surface.
*) ....
Considering the lack of evidence in favor of the moon being made of cheese and various reasons why it cannot be made of chees, we can reasonable conclude that the moon is not made of cheese.
Similarly, there is a lot of evidence in favor of Holocaust revisionism and none against it. Therefore, one can reasonable conclude that Holocaust revisionists are correct. It would therefore be better not to compare Holocaust revisionism with the statement that the moon is made of cheese but rather orthodox Holocaust history.
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It's been proven beyond reasonable doubt that the moon is, in fact, made of cheese. Your arguments have been debunked by known experts in the field. Many of the photographs are obvious fakes, the trips to the moon were a gigantic hoax, exposed by countless websites, articles, and well-known academics, and I'm fairly sure you haven't actually measured the temperature on the moon, only read about it in NASA propaganda.
Oh, and why do you think it's called the Milky Way? :hahaha:
Pathetic, really, your attempts at trying to hide the truth from the public.
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It's been proven beyond reasonable doubt that the moon is, in fact, made of cheese. Your arguments have been debunked by known experts in the field. Many of the photographs are obvious fakes, the trips to the moon were a gigantic hoax, exposed by countless websites, articles, and well-known academics, and I'm fairly sure you haven't actually measured the temperature on the moon, only read about it in NASA propaganda.
Feel free to provide sources on the cheesy nature of the moon. Feel free to provide any arguments that support it. Even if the moon photographs are obvious fakes, even if the trips to the moon were all a hoax (including robot trips) and even if the temperature estimates were incorrect you still haven't given the slightest proof in favor of the moon being made of cheese.
Your attempts to ridicule Holocaust Revisionism (rather than address their arguments) are more than pathetic.
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Your pathetic attempts at hiding the cheesy truth have all been debunked by many well-known academics in the field using the latest scientific methods. Sad, really. :hahaha:
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Your pathetic attempts at hiding the cheesy truth have all been debunked by many well-known academics in the field using the latest scientific methods.
Feel free to provide sources on the cheesy nature of the moon. Feel free to provide any arguments that support it. Even if the moon photographs are obvious fakes, even if the trips to the moon were all a hoax (including robot trips) and even if the temperature estimates were incorrect you still haven't given the slightest proof in favor of the moon being made of cheese.
Your attempts to ridicule Holocaust Revisionism (rather than address their arguments) are more than pathetic.
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A proper debate impies that you actually respond to the previous arguments of your oponent. You seem to be absolutely incapable of this, so it seems.
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:hahaha:
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:hahaha:
A hell of an argument that is :D
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The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz -- Part 1
David Cole - The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 1 of 2 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=976870941610001004)
I've found myself with time to watch this first video presentation. I do intend to watch the others. Here's a few things that sprung to my mind on one viewing.
Some points the revisionist said seem good points on the face of it. However, they do not convince whole-heartedly... since I am admittedly highly skeptical of Revisionist history regarding the holocaust.
I believe he started by saying that Russian Propoganda is behind a lot of the current understanding of the holocaust, but later said that the Russians are more concerned with the plight of the Poles and others from the late Eastern Bloc at Auschwitz than the Jews. Yet are we not dealing with the Holocaust which is supposed to be the German attempt to wipe the Jews out of European existence... an attempted genocide.
The issue of the Zyklon B staining remaining in the de-lousing chambers and yet not in the Gas Chamber, on the face of it seems a good point. However, the undisputed evidence that the Gas-Camber was turned into an Air Raid shelter by the Germans in 1943 after its use as a gas chamber can suggest that during construction the building would have been cleaned as well as new walls put in and the ceiling vents removed. It is reasonable to assume the building would have been cleaned of the debris of its former use. So it is a good point so long as it is presumed that the use of the building didn't change during the war and, unfortunately for the point, the use DID change.
What the video maker considers a fraud in reconstructing the buildings to how they approximately were before the changing from Gas Chamber to Air Raid Shelter, most would consider to be Restoration... which takes place in many historical buildings. The Tour Guide can not be expected to know all the historical details and it is human nature to try and muckle through so as not to disappoint what she thought to be an interested Jewish tourist - yes she made a booboo, but those who were better qualified were perfectly open and gave good explaination... indeed seemed to bend over backwards for the interviewer.
Oh and regarding the de-licing chambers... I thought they were common knowledge, as also the use of Zyklon B to kill infestations. It was, after all, invented before the war as a pesticide, wasn't it?
Regarding the swimming pool. I have a question. Was the pool constructed while Auschwitz was a military barracks, or was it constructed for the purpose of the inmates when the site became a prison camp. It does indeed seem very surprising that the Germans would have constructed an item of luxury for it's professed enemies.
The piece also rests heavilly on the lack of documentary evidence for the holocaust (ignoring witness statements). However, a lack of documentary evidence for traditional history is ALSO a lack of documentary evidence for revisionist history and thus siting it is a fallacy of logic. A lot of documents were destroyed when Nazi Germany fell and as to the lack of coded transmissions detailing the activities of exterminating the Jews... why would such local activity need to be transmitted in coded transmissions through the airways, what purpose would that serve if the mechanisms were already in place and operating.
I think it is a given, since the estimated dead at Auschwitz fell from 4 million to 1.1 million, that Russian propoganda played a part in the figures being so high for this particular camp. However no evidence is presented by the Revisionist for his suggestion that the figure be lower still. No evidence or even argument whatsoever.
Lastly regarding the questioning of the tour guide. Of course she will falter when asked questions she is not used to answering. She is not a historian but a person employed to guide an average tourist around the site. I would imagine just as much faltering would happen if you asked a man in a Mickey Mouse costume at Disney World on the life of Walt Disney. The questioning was not fair because the interviewer was hiding his interests, so of course she would be ill-prepared. Not that she was given much screen time in the video any way. He said he had, was it 9 hours of footage with her... she seemed to have only seconds of screen time. Very limited clips of what she had to say.
So. All-in-all this first video can appear to deliver some good points on the face of it, but it is not in any way convincing to a thinking/questioning skeptic looking for weaknesses in its arguments as any skeptic would.
It is a worthwhile video to watch, because it does bring up some interesting points. However it could also mislead because of what it, itself leaves unsaid by its careful construction. If I am to be asked to think outside the box of the holocaust, then I will certainly seek to think outside the box of the revisionist. Rather like those who claim the moon landings never happened, on the face of it the arguments seem convincing, but under the surface, if interrogated, they are questionable. Which is after all, exactly what the Revisionists are saying about the Traditionalists... so its a fair point to make in return :)
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:hahaha:
A hell of an argument that is :D
On par with any of yours, fuckwit.
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Regarding the swimming pool. I have a question. Was the pool constructed while Auschwitz was a military barracks, or was it constructed for the purpose of the inmates when the site became a prison camp. It does indeed seem very surprising that the Germans would have constructed an item of luxury for it's professed enemies.
That's one good point. There were no military barracks in Auschwitz before 1939, since, as I pointed out before, Auschwitz was part of Poland until October 1939, when it was incorporated in Upper Silesia. It was just a small village with no military installations at all.
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The X marks Auschwitz on this map of the 1939 incorporated areas.
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I've found myself with time to watch this first video presentation. I do intend to watch the others.
I'm happy to encounter at least someone with an open mind.
Some points the revisionist said seem good points on the face of it. However, they do not convince whole-heartedly... since I am admittedly highly skeptical of Revisionist history regarding the holocaust.
So was I in the beginning.
I believe he started by saying that Russian Propoganda is behind a lot of the current understanding of the holocaust, but later said that the Russians are more concerned with the plight of the Poles and others from the late Eastern Bloc at Auschwitz than the Jews. Yet are we not dealing with the Holocaust which is supposed to be the German attempt to wipe the Jews out of European existence... an attempted genocide.
The Holocaust myth orriginated in Polish and Russian propaganda and was later picked up by British, Americans and Jews. After the major war trials, it was pretty much ignored until ancient aliens and Holocaust revisionists picked it up during the '60s. Since then, the Jewish aspect of the Holocaust myth became more and more important as more and more ancient alien propaganda was published.
However, the undisputed evidence that the Gas-Camber was turned into an Air Raid shelter by the Germans in 1943 after its use as a gas chamber can suggest that during construction the building would have been cleaned as well as new walls put in and the ceiling vents removed.
How do you know that the air raid shelter had been anything but an air raid shelter before the Russians entered the camp?
The Tour Guide can not be expected to know all the historical details and it is human nature to try and muckle through so as not to disappoint what she thought to be an interested Jewish tourist
It is an obvious fraud when you tell any tourist the room is in its orriginal state when it is not.
Oh and regarding the de-licing chambers... I thought they were common knowledge, as also the use of Zyklon B to kill infestations. It was, after all, invented before the war as a pesticide, wasn't it?
It is far from common knowledge. Most people are not aware of the use of Zyklon B for delycing and are just told it was used for killing people.
Regarding the swimming pool. I have a question. Was the pool constructed while Auschwitz was a military barracks, or was it constructed for the purpose of the inmates when the site became a prison camp.
Was the Auschwitz complex a military barracks before it became a concentration camp? This is new for me. Please elaborate.
The piece also rests heavilly on the lack of documentary evidence for the holocaust (ignoring witness statements). However, a lack of documentary evidence for traditional history is ALSO a lack of documentary evidence for revisionist history and thus siting it is a fallacy of logic.
Actually, there is quite some evidence in favor of the Holocaust Revisionist version of history, which is mentioned in some of the other films and in the many books published on the topic. This film only deals with a tiny aspect of the issue.
I think it is a given, since the estimated dead at Auschwitz fell from 4 million to 1.1 million, that Russian propoganda played a part in the figures being so high for this particular camp. However no evidence is presented by the Revisionist for his suggestion that the figure be lower still. No evidence or even argument whatsoever.
Again, there are other sources that deal with this.
Lastly regarding the questioning of the tour guide. Of course she will falter when asked questions she is not used to answering. She is not a historian but a person employed to guide an average tourist around the site.
When I hire a tour guide, I espect him or her to know important things such as whether or not "gas chambers" are in their orriginal condition.
I would imagine just as much faltering would happen if you asked a man in a Mickey Mouse costume at Disney World on the life of Walt Disney.
A man in a Mickey Mouse costume at Disney World is supposed to entertain. A tour guide in a museum is supposed to inform. I"m not spending my money on a tour guide who doesn't know more about the museum than I already do.
So. All-in-all this first video can appear to deliver some good points on the face of it, but it is not in any way convincing to a thinking/questioning skeptic looking for weaknesses in its arguments as any skeptic would.
That's why videos like this one should be looked at as an introduction into Holocaust Revisionism only. For a more detailed insight, you should read articles or books.
It is a worthwhile video to watch, because it does bring up some interesting points. However it could also mislead because of what it, itself leaves unsaid by its careful construction. If I am to be asked to think outside the box of the holocaust, then I will certainly seek to think outside the box of the revisionist.[/quote]
I can only encourage you to continue your research. When I first watched that video, I was just as sceptical as you are now.
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Hm, the English Wikipedia states that there were Polish military installations there before 1939, though I see nothing about that in the German Wikipedia.
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Hm, the English Wikipedia states that there were Polish military installations there before 1939, though I see nothing about that in the German Wikipedia.
Interesting.
ANY information about this would be very welcome....
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However, the undisputed evidence that the Gas-Camber was turned into an Air Raid shelter by the Germans in 1943 after its use as a gas chamber can suggest that during construction the building would have been cleaned as well as new walls put in and the ceiling vents removed.
How do you know that the air raid shelter had been anything but an air raid shelter before the Russians entered the camp?
How do you know that it wasn't? There seems physical evidence that the building had many uses over time - pointed out by the narrator himself. The narrator in the video did not question what the historian said about the conversion from Gas Chamber to Air Raid Shelter between 1942 and 1943 (note I might be getting the dates wrong from just one viewing).
Oh and regarding the de-licing chambers... I thought they were common knowledge, as also the use of Zyklon B to kill infestations. It was, after all, invented before the war as a pesticide, wasn't it?
It is far from common knowledge. Most people are not aware of the use of Zyklon B for delycing and are just told it was used for killing people.
How did I know this then? I have not made any detailed study into this matter, yet it is something I already knew and regarded as quite common knowledge.
Regarding the swimming pool. I have a question. Was the pool constructed while Auschwitz was a military barracks, or was it constructed for the purpose of the inmates when the site became a prison camp.
Was the Auschwitz complex a military barracks before it became a concentration camp? This is new for me. Please elaborate.
I admittedly may be mistaken because I've only viewed the video once... but doesn't the narrator state that when he talks about the three Auschwitz's at the beginning of the video? Sorry if I am mistaken.
The piece also rests heavilly on the lack of documentary evidence for the holocaust (ignoring witness statements). However, a lack of documentary evidence for traditional history is ALSO a lack of documentary evidence for revisionist history and thus siting it is a fallacy of logic.
Actually, there is quite some evidence in favor of the Holocaust Revisionist version of history, which is mentioned in some of the other films and in the many books published on the topic. This film only deals with a tiny aspect of the issue.
I think it is a given, since the estimated dead at Auschwitz fell from 4 million to 1.1 million, that Russian propoganda played a part in the figures being so high for this particular camp. However no evidence is presented by the Revisionist for his suggestion that the figure be lower still. No evidence or even argument whatsoever.
Again, there are other sources that deal with this.
I look forward to the further videos then :)
Lastly regarding the questioning of the tour guide. Of course she will falter when asked questions she is not used to answering. She is not a historian but a person employed to guide an average tourist around the site.
When I hire a tour guide, I espect him or her to know important things such as whether or not "gas chambers" are in their orriginal condition.
You have higher expectations of mere tour guides than I would have then. I would not take a mere tour guide at face value. They are often merely given a prepared text to recite. A qualified historian costs more.
So. All-in-all this first video can appear to deliver some good points on the face of it, but it is not in any way convincing to a thinking/questioning skeptic looking for weaknesses in its arguments as any skeptic would.
That's why videos like this one should be looked at as an introduction into Holocaust Revisionism only. For a more detailed insight, you should read articles or books.
Yes. However, the videos are the materials you provided for us to watch. I could have watched them without doing you the courtesy of reply, but I chose to give you my initial response. I am not yet feeling inclined to carry out a detailed study, maybe the later videos will do this. We shall see :)
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Was the Auschwitz complex a military barracks before it became a concentration camp? This is new for me. Please elaborate.
Confirmed. The narrator says this around 4 minutes into the first video :)
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It's been proven beyond reasonable doubt that the moon is, in fact, made of cheese. Your arguments have been debunked by known experts in the field. Many of the photographs are obvious fakes, the trips to the moon were a gigantic hoax, exposed by countless websites, articles, and well-known academics, and I'm fairly sure you haven't actually measured the temperature on the moon, only read about it in NASA propaganda.
Oh, and why do you think it's called the Milky Way? :hahaha:
Pathetic, really, your attempts at trying to hide the truth from the public.
:LMAO: :plus:
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:blah:
I can only encourage you to continue your research. When I first watched that video, I was just as sceptical as you are now.
"and then the pixies in my head told me The Truth..."
i was going to read this thread, but then i found some lovely pins to stick in my eyes, and i thought i'd do that for preference. ::)
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It's not nice of you to bully IlluSionS667. :(
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The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz -- Part 1
David Cole - The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 1 of 2 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=976870941610001004)
I've found myself with time to watch this first video presentation. I do intend to watch the others. Here's a few things that sprung to my mind on one viewing.
Some points the revisionist said seem good points on the face of it. However, they do not convince whole-heartedly... since I am admittedly highly skeptical of Revisionist history regarding the holocaust.
I believe he started by saying that Russian Propoganda is behind a lot of the current understanding of the holocaust, but later said that the Russians are more concerned with the plight of the Poles and others from the late Eastern Bloc at Auschwitz than the Jews. Yet are we not dealing with the Holocaust which is supposed to be the German attempt to wipe the Jews out of European existence... an attempted genocide.
The issue of the Zyklon B staining remaining in the de-lousing chambers and yet not in the Gas Chamber, on the face of it seems a good point. However, the undisputed evidence that the Gas-Camber was turned into an Air Raid shelter by the Germans in 1943 after its use as a gas chamber can suggest that during construction the building would have been cleaned as well as new walls put in and the ceiling vents removed. It is reasonable to assume the building would have been cleaned of the debris of its former use. So it is a good point so long as it is presumed that the use of the building didn't change during the war and, unfortunately for the point, the use DID change.
What the video maker considers a fraud in reconstructing the buildings to how they approximately were before the changing from Gas Chamber to Air Raid Shelter, most would consider to be Restoration... which takes place in many historical buildings. The Tour Guide can not be expected to know all the historical details and it is human nature to try and muckle through so as not to disappoint what she thought to be an interested Jewish tourist - yes she made a booboo, but those who were better qualified were perfectly open and gave good explaination... indeed seemed to bend over backwards for the interviewer.
Oh and regarding the de-licing chambers... I thought they were common knowledge, as also the use of Zyklon B to kill infestations. It was, after all, invented before the war as a pesticide, wasn't it?
Regarding the swimming pool. I have a question. Was the pool constructed while Auschwitz was a military barracks, or was it constructed for the purpose of the inmates when the site became a prison camp. It does indeed seem very surprising that the Germans would have constructed an item of luxury for it's professed enemies.
The piece also rests heavilly on the lack of documentary evidence for the holocaust (ignoring witness statements). However, a lack of documentary evidence for traditional history is ALSO a lack of documentary evidence for revisionist history and thus siting it is a fallacy of logic. A lot of documents were destroyed when Nazi Germany fell and as to the lack of coded transmissions detailing the activities of exterminating the Jews... why would such local activity need to be transmitted in coded transmissions through the airways, what purpose would that serve if the mechanisms were already in place and operating.
I think it is a given, since the estimated dead at Auschwitz fell from 4 million to 1.1 million, that Russian propoganda played a part in the figures being so high for this particular camp. However no evidence is presented by the Revisionist for his suggestion that the figure be lower still. No evidence or even argument whatsoever.
Lastly regarding the questioning of the tour guide. Of course she will falter when asked questions she is not used to answering. She is not a historian but a person employed to guide an average tourist around the site. I would imagine just as much faltering would happen if you asked a man in a Mickey Mouse costume at Disney World on the life of Walt Disney. The questioning was not fair because the interviewer was hiding his interests, so of course she would be ill-prepared. Not that she was given much screen time in the video any way. He said he had, was it 9 hours of footage with her... she seemed to have only seconds of screen time. Very limited clips of what she had to say.
So. All-in-all this first video can appear to deliver some good points on the face of it, but it is not in any way convincing to a thinking/questioning skeptic looking for weaknesses in its arguments as any skeptic would.
It is a worthwhile video to watch, because it does bring up some interesting points. However it could also mislead because of what it, itself leaves unsaid by its careful construction. If I am to be asked to think outside the box of the holocaust, then I will certainly seek to think outside the box of the revisionist. Rather like those who claim the moon landings never happened, on the face of it the arguments seem convincing, but under the surface, if interrogated, they are questionable. Which is after all, exactly what the Revisionists are saying about the Traditionalists... so its a fair point to make in return :)
fuck me - did you write all them words yourself?
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It's not nice of you to bully IlluSionS667. :(
"bully"? you call that bullying?
my word, you are a delicate flower.
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It's not nice of you to bully IlluSionS667. :(
I certainly hope I wasn't being nice.
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How do you know that the air raid shelter had been anything but an air raid shelter before the Russians entered the camp?
How do you know that it wasn't? There seems physical evidence that the building had many uses over time - pointed out by the narrator himself.
Like what?
The narrator in the video did not question what the historian said about the conversion from Gas Chamber to Air Raid Shelter between 1942 and 1943 (note I might be getting the dates wrong from just one viewing).
He did not ask Piper about it because that would have been suspicious. I know of no reason to believe these rooms ever WERE gas chambers other than dubious post-war testimonies.
Besides, the key feature of the film is that it exposes the fact that the "gas chamber" in Auschwitz was nothing but an air raid shelter when the Russians arrived. Back then, the admiittance of this fact by an official as important as Piper was quite a big deal and shocking to many.....
It is far from common knowledge. Most people are not aware of the use of Zyklon B for delycing and are just told it was used for killing people.
How did I know this then? I have not made any detailed study into this matter, yet it is something I already knew and regarded as quite common knowledge.
Every now and then, they air a documentary that mentions it. You must have seen one of them ;)
I'm not saying that this info is not in the public record. I'm merely pointing out that it's a fact not often mentioned, resulting in people thinking it was used for killing people and for killing people only.
I admittedly may be mistaken because I've only viewed the video once... but doesn't the narrator state that when he talks about the three Auschwitz's at the beginning of the video? Sorry if I am mistaken.
Like I said, it's been years ago since I last watched the vid... although this does seem a bit too relevant to forget or ignore.
I look forward to the further videos then :)
Good. Once you've gone through them, feel free to ask me for book titles if you're still interested in further research.
You have higher expectations of mere tour guides than I would have then. I would not take a mere tour guide at face value. They are often merely given a prepared text to recite.
I guess tour guides in my country are better trained and more passionate than those in your country. I doubt I ever met a Belgian tour guide who wasn't passionate about the topic at hand and who couldn't spontaneously tell lots of details many people don't know about.
Yes. However, the videos are the materials you provided for us to watch. I could have watched them without doing you the courtesy of reply, but I chose to give you my initial response. I am not yet feeling inclined to carry out a detailed study, maybe the later videos will do this. We shall see :)
I can post some book titles whenever you want them. I already explained you that I posted these videos because people are more inclined to spend one or two hours watching a video than to spend several days or weeks reading a book, unless they're already passionate about the topic on forehand.
Was the Auschwitz complex a military barracks before it became a concentration camp? This is new for me. Please elaborate.
Confirmed. The narrator says this around 4 minutes into the first video :)
I'll have to do some further research on that.
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It's not nice of you to bully IlluSionS667. :(
What do you expect from hypocrites like them? Those who whine the most about "human rights", "democracy" and "tolerance" are often the least inclined to show respect to those with views that strongly differ from them. When the British and American "humanitarians" invaded Germany in 1945, they robbed, tortured, raped and murdered millions in the name of "democracy", "freedom" and "justice". These allied "humanitarians" destroyed centuries of precious art and hundreds of thousands of people with attrocious phospherous and atom bombs in a matter of days. The same people who whined about the freedom of dissidents in Third Reich Germany forced every German lucky enough not to be executed or sent to prison to "denazify" by means of terror and propaganda. The same people who whined about the treatment of Jews in the German concentration camps and falsely accused the Germans of genocide sent German individuals to camps where conditions were sometimes far worse, and this for no other reason but their idealism. Scenes of embowelment of former SS-officers (alive and screaming) were not uncommon.
The "multi-culturalist" "capitalist" and "democratic" individual is the worst kind of hypocrite there is.
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Oh, I see. The nazis were actually the victims. ::) Don't you think that's a bit top-heavy, even for a fuckwit like you?
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Oh, I see. The nazis were actually the victims. ::)
Yes, they were. They were idealists who were villified to the extreme due to black-ops wartime propaganda that survived the war and the sub-sequent trials because ancient aliens decided to reuse it.
Obviously, Hitler was no angel. No one is even remotely suggesting that political dissident had freedom of speech in Hiter Germany or that concentration camps were like Club Med. The violence, repression and neglect of Hitler Germany was merely exaggerated while the violence, repression and neglect of their enemies was largely ignored or excused.
For example, have you ever heard of the Bengali famine of 1943? During the war, the British confiscated and stockpiled enormous amounts of Bengali rice, leaving only little for the local population. As a consequence, 1.5 to 3 million people (official figures) died from famine. Even though no one denies this genuine Holocaust, no outrage is heard and no one constantly tells us about how evil this act has been.... 1.5 or more dead and the world remains silent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
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yep, some atrocities are higher profile than others, get over it. doesn't make any of them less appalling, and the maxim "two wrongs don't make a right" springs to mind.
the only use for arguments like that is to irritate adults who work with kids, when there's a playground skit: "why did you punch Champagne, Tyson?"*
"well, she kicked me!"
etc.
*(i'm not kidding - i've taught kids with those names. some people should be shot before they manage to procreate).
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yep, some atrocities are higher profile than others, get over it. doesn't make any of them less appalling, and the maxim "two wrongs don't make a right" springs to mind.
The problem is that the side that commited the most and the more extreme attrocities during WW2 is to this day hailed as a liberator and the pinnacle of freedom and justice, whereas the other side is constantly defamed and accused of genocide as well as all sorts of terror. That is a complete and utter distortion, resulting in most people drawing wrong conclusions and having a warped view of reality. That's why all this is so very important.
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and yet it doesn't negate the facts that millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives.
history repeats itself - the american forces are known to have committed atrocites in iraq, as were the british forces, and i hardly have to mention rwanda, or zimbabwe, etc., etc., etc.
what i'm saying here is that your argument rests on saying, "we're allowed to do unnacceptable things cos other people have." that doesn't wash, and never will.
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and yet it doesn't negate the facts that millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives.
Those aren't facts. That's just plain propaganda.
Like I said, German crimes were EXAGGERATED whereas allied crimes were IGNORED or EXCUSED. The most horrible war crimes were commited by the allies and not the Germans.
history repeats itself - the american forces are known to have committed atrocites in iraq, as were the british forces, and i hardly have to mention rwanda, or zimbabwe, etc., etc., etc.
Indeed. What you somehow fail to grasp, is that they not only are the bad guys today but also during WW2. The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
what i'm saying here is that your argument rests on saying, "we're allowed to do unnacceptable things cos other people have."
What I'm saying is "He's kicked me in the face and gets away with it, while I'm being put in jail and accused of physically attacking someone because I pinched his arm".
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When the British and American "humanitarians" invaded Germany in 1945, they robbed, tortured, raped and murdered millions in the name of "democracy", "freedom" and "justice". These allied "humanitarians" destroyed centuries of precious art and hundreds of thousands of people with attrocious phospherous and atom bombs in a matter of days.
Atom bombs exploded in Germany? That certainly is news to me. I always thought two were exploded in Japan only with no British involvement. I agree that the use of the Atom bombs in Japan were ghastly... but I'm looking back from today. Back then the Atom bomb didn't have the name it has today. No denying the truth that America is the only nation to have used atomic bombs in anger though. But that was against Japan.
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The problem is that the side that commited the most and the more extreme attrocities during WW2 is to this day hailed as a liberator and the pinnacle of freedom and justice, whereas the other side is constantly defamed and accused of genocide as well as all sorts of terror. That is a complete and utter distortion, resulting in most people drawing wrong conclusions and having a warped view of reality. That's why all this is so very important.
Who started invading other countries and basically started the war? Are you saying that Nazi Germany was the better of the two sides?
EDIT: Ah I see a few posts later that is exactly what you are saying.
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The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
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When the British and American "humanitarians" invaded Germany in 1945, they robbed, tortured, raped and murdered millions in the name of "democracy", "freedom" and "justice". These allied "humanitarians" destroyed centuries of precious art and hundreds of thousands of people with attrocious phospherous and atom bombs in a matter of days.
Atom bombs exploded in Germany? That certainly is news to me.
The first sentence was a reference to Germany in 1945. The second sentence was a reference to WW2 as a whole. This should have been obvious from the context.
I always thought two were exploded in Japan only with no British involvement.
The phosperous bombs dropped on Germany came from both British and American bombers, though.
I agree that the use of the Atom bombs in Japan were ghastly... but I'm looking back from today. Back then the Atom bomb didn't have the name it has today. No denying the truth that America is the only nation to have used atomic bombs in anger though. But that was against Japan.
So? The phosperous rain on Dresden was no less horrific than the atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
Who started invading other countries and basically started the war??
England was the nation with the largest colonial empire and had waged many wars to consolidate or increase its power. The Boer wars, where concentration camps were used by the British to starve civilian women and their children, was a particularly horrible war started solely for the profit of the British elite. It was this nation that started WW2 when it declared war on Germany because German soldiers had set foot in Poland as a consequence of a German-Polish conflict the Poles didn't wish to solve anymore (as a consequence of English promises to Poland).
Are you saying that Nazi Germany was the better of the two sides
The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
It only sounds revolting because you equal the Third Reich with terror and genocide. Once you see how much of a historical fiction that is and once you learn of the terror commited by the English and Americans, the balance clearly shifts in favor of Germany.
I know it's all hard to believe and I don't want you to take anything I say here for granted. Do your own research as objectively as possible and one day you'll find out I'm right.
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I think I'll stick with mel Brooks, Spike Jones and Charlie Chaplin on this one. They seem like more creditable sources than some reviisionist Nazi propagandists.
Third positionists.... turd positionists.
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When the British and American "humanitarians" invaded Germany in 1945, they robbed, tortured, raped and murdered millions in the name of "democracy", "freedom" and "justice". These allied "humanitarians" destroyed centuries of precious art and hundreds of thousands of people with attrocious phospherous and atom bombs in a matter of days.
Atom bombs exploded in Germany? That certainly is news to me. I always thought two were exploded in Japan only with no British involvement. I agree that the use of the Atom bombs in Japan were ghastly... but I'm looking back from today. Back then the Atom bomb didn't have the name it has today. No denying the truth that America is the only nation to have used atomic bombs in anger though. But that was against Japan.
They planned to drop an atom bomb on Germany. If the war in Europe had continued for ½ year more or so, they probably would have used it against Germany.
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The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
No, the world probably would have been a better world for White people in northern Europe at least. Instead of this stupid European Union there had been a Great Germanic Reich in northern and central Europe.
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The Sapnish civil war indirectly led into the 2nd world war after Hitler backed one side (may have been Franco). Hitler became chancellor in 1933 and got Germany out of the tail end of the depression. Then within 4 years he wanted to expand and take over the Sudatenland. He marched East, and in 1939 invaded Poland. Before this, Chamberlain and the others (De Gaull, Mussolini, Hitler and at least a couple of others) met with the plan of appeasement, which failed. Hitler went on his march and declared the Third Reich would be the most powerful force for the next 1000 years. War was declared by Britain on Sept 3 1939, when it was announced by Chamberlain. Australia joined as part of the Commonwealth, and Hitler's plan to take over Europe and the world was underway. So blaming Engalnd for previous conflicts such as the Boer war (which the Germans and Afrikaners actually started) is total bullshit. Get your facts right in future, instead of reading from Goebbels' handbook, dickhead.
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The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
No, the world probably would have been a better world for White people in northern Europe at least. Instead of this stupid European Union there had been a Great Germanic Reich in northern and central Europe.
It wouldn't have been better just for the Germanic world. Do note that the loss of Germany did not only lead to the desitructive influence of American culture-imperialism in the Germanic and Romanic world but also to the dominion of Sovjet tyranny all over the Slavic world for almost half a century.
The Sapnish civil war indirectly led into the 2nd world war after Hitler backed one side (may have been Franco).
Then why is it that Spain managed to remain neutral throughout WW2 and Franco even managed to stay in charge after national-socialist Germany and fascist Italy had lost the war?
Hitler became chancellor in 1933 and got Germany out of the tail end of the depression. Then within 4 years he wanted to expand and take over the Sudatenland.
Sudetenland is traditional German land and was inhabited by a majority of Germans that was nevertheless oppressed by the Czech autorities. Besides that, the Anschluss of Sudetenland occured with the permission of England and France.
He marched East, and in 1939 invaded Poland. Before this, Chamberlain and the others (De Gaull, Mussolini, Hitler and at least a couple of others) met with the plan of appeasement, which failed.
The plan failed because it was never intended to succeed.
Hitler invaded Poland because Poland unilaterally withdraw from negotiations that had been going on since 1934 between Polish and German authorities on topics like the treatment of ethnic Germans in Poland (who were oppressed by the Polish government), the Danzig harbor (which was boycotted by the Poles in favor of their new harbor Gdynia) and the possibility of a corridor (a freeway would have been sufficient) to link East-Prussia with the German mainland. This unilateral withdrawal was the result of English promises made to Poland.
Hitler's plan to take over Europe and the world was underway.
Oh please...... Just because Hitler decided it was tactically interesting to gain control of countries like Belgium, Holland or Norway as England was waging its war against Germany, that doesn't mean that Germany wanted to take over Europe.... let alone the world.
So blaming Engalnd for previous conflicts such as the Boer war (which the Germans and Afrikaners actually started) is total bullshit.
The Boer wars started because the Boers refused to let Cecil Rhodes take control of the gold and diamond mines. It was a pure economical war caused by Britain.
Get your facts right in future, instead of reading from Goebbels' handbook, dickhead.
Get your facts right in future instead of reciting "democratic" propaganda, you degenerate moron.
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and yet it doesn't negate the facts that millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives.
Those aren't facts. That's just plain propaganda.
ah, now i see.
no point in discussing anything with you anymore, then. you're a bigot, and won't listen to anything anyone else has to say who disagrees with you.
what was that about accepting dogma without questioning again?
and i feel sorry for you for being sucked in by propaganda: i thought for a cuntisecond or so, that you might have a brain. now i see you're just as much a sheep as the rest of them.
go away and learn how to think, would you?
move along folks, nothing more to see here. no point in arguing with someone who gets his opinions from pamphlets.
/makes note: must remember to speak to my uncle who was part of the concentration camp clear-up after WW2, and ask him about it again, er, sorry, i mean his propaganda.
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and yet it doesn't negate the facts that millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives.
Those aren't facts. That's just plain propaganda.
ah, now i see.
no point in discussing anything with you anymore, then. you're a bigot, and won't listen to anything anyone else has to say who disagrees with you.
I do listen to other opinions. You just can't expect me to actually agree with them without any arguments.
The claim that "millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives" is nothing but plain propaganda is proven fact. If you really were willing to question everything, you would also be willing to question the claim that "millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives".
what was that about accepting dogma without questioning again?
My views on the Holocaust myth are the result of scientific inquiry only. I also used to believe that "millions of people - jews, gypsies, homosexuals, jehovah's witnesses, people with diabilities - were slaughtered inhumanely and for political motives" but it is my questioning everything that led me to discover this is a fallacy.
and i feel sorry for you for being sucked in by propaganda: i thought for a cuntisecond or so, that you might have a brain. now i see you're just as much a sheep as the rest of them.
You're the one being suckered in by propaganda, I'm afraid.
go away and learn how to think, would you?
I'm a trained IT Consultant and I spend a significant amount of my spare time reading, philosophising and discussing on topics like politics, history and science. I probably think more in an average day than you do in a month.
/makes note: must remember to speak to my uncle who was part of the concentration camp clear-up after WW2, and ask him about it again, er, sorry, i mean his propaganda.
Your grandfather probably did experience horrible things, but that doesn't mean he was witness to genocide. There is a way to explain the horror American soldiers witnessed at Dachau and Bergen-Belsen that doesn't imply genocide and that has been proven beyond reasonable doubt by Holocaust Revisionists.
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Every piece of what you quoted to my response is factually incorrect, and empirically flawed in it's concept by a truly flawed individual.
Spain stayed neutral because they new that whoever backed Hitler would ultimately be turned on, as France and Italy were. It was especially dangerous, and given the toll of the civil war, they could afford to do nothing else. Italy sapped sides at the drop of a hat, and the only thing that saved France was the resistance.
Czech mistreatment? Bullshit. The Czechs had the same thing happen to them when the Nazis marched through toward Russia as had happen to the Pols. The Pols were quite within their right to stick it to Hitler, given that he wanted THEIR land and their territory. 1939 proved them right.
You are an idiot. Hitler's sweeo all through France, Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Belgium, into England, Russia, and even Egypt proved he was after European domination. Look at the numbers and the territory, you bigotted ponce. You'll see your 'facts' are nothing but hyperbole.
The final solution was to not only get rid of the Jews from Germany, but to wipe them off the face of the Earth. Hitler was part Jewish (his mother's side) and he destroyed and razed his own village to rid the world of any trace that he was. He claimed to have been born as an Austrian, but everybody knew he had Jewish ancestry.
So it's you who needs to read some proper facts, and stop blighting this forum with your lies and revisonist bullshit.
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as i said, there's no point in arguing with someone whose mind is completely closed: you can't deny that you've made up your mind and won't consider any alternative to your views. i'll keep listening to anyone who proves to me that their opinion is worth listening to, including those opinions i find distasteful. you, sir, are not one of those people.
here's a clue: "yes, but..." (or versions thereof) means you're not listening.
as for thinking more in a day than i do in a month, that's yet another example of you making assumptions, and merely a clever way of insulting me. well, have that point - you obviously need it more than i do. :-*
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It's his dictaphone, and he can 'cictaphone up his arse'. Hope his tape breaks or gets chewed up. :wanker:
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Every piece of what you quoted to my response is factually incorrect, and empirically flawed in it's concept by a truly flawed individual.
Feel free to prove me wrong.
Spain stayed neutral because they new that whoever backed Hitler would ultimately be turned on, as France and Italy were. It was especially dangerous, and given the toll of the civil war, they could afford to do nothing else.
Still... if the situation in Spain had ANYTHING to do with WW2, Spain wouldn't have been neutral.
Italy sapped sides at the drop of a hat, and the only thing that saved France was the resistance.
France was an allied nation occupied by Germany. It did have a collaborating government, but so did all occupied nations. Belgium even had three different national-socialist parties who all partially or totally supported Germany.
Czech mistreatment? Bullshit. The Czechs had the same thing happen to them when the Nazis marched through toward Russia as had happen to the Pols.
This happened only AFTER many years of abuse by both Czechs and Poles. Whenever one ethnic group gains control over another, abuse of the dominant group is very common. It was no different in the former German territories of Czechoslovakia and Poland than in eg. Kosovo a few years ago.
The Pols were quite within their right to stick it to Hitler, given that he wanted THEIR land and their territory.
He didn't. Had Poland not withdrawed unilaterally from their negotiations with Germany, there would have been no invasion.
Besides... Half of Poland had been German territory for centuries and was predominantly inhabited by Germans.
You are an idiot. Hitler's sweeo all through France, Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Belgium, into England, Russia, and even Egypt proved he was after European domination.
France had declared war on Germany prior to that.
Italy was an ally.
Poland was attacked for reasons mentioned above.
Czech areas were annexed totally legally, following a treaty between Hacha and Hitler. Slowak areas were granted independent at the same time.
Yugoslavia, Hungary and Romania were independent nations.
Belgium, Holland, Norway and Sweden were invaded for tactical reasons.
England was attacked because it had declared war against Germany.
Germany troops set foot into Egypt only to aid their ally Italy.
How does this prove Hitler wanted to conquer all of Europe?
The final solution was to not only get rid of the Jews from Germany, but to wipe them off the face of the Earth.
The Final Solution was the creation of a Jewish nation far away from Germany.
Hitler was part Jewish (his mother's side)
That's an unsubstanciated rumour.
he destroyed and razed his own village to rid the world of any trace that he was.
He actually wanted to turn his home town Linz into a major cultural centre.
He claimed to have been born as an Austrian, but everybody knew he had Jewish ancestry.
No German would have believed that at the time.
So it's you who needs to read some proper facts, and stop blighting this forum with your lies and revisonist bullshit.
ROFL
as i said, there's no point in arguing with someone whose mind is completely closed
Like yourself, you mean?!?
you can't deny that you've made up your mind and won't consider any alternative to your views.
Prove that I'm wrong and I will change my mind. I've done so many times before and I will continue to do so in the future.
Just don't me to accept as evidence strawman arguments that have been debunked ages ago.
i'll keep listening to anyone who proves to me that their opinion is worth listening to, including those opinions i find distasteful.
How can anyone prove that?
here's a clue: "yes, but..." (or versions thereof) means you're not listening.
It means that I'm listening but not agreeing. Big difference ! ! !
Do you really think you've said ANYTHING I haven't read or heard at least a dozen times before?
as for thinking more in a day than i do in a month, that's yet another example of you making assumptions, and merely a clever way of insulting me.
Thusfar you haven't illustrated any sign of intelligence, so I'm fairly confident of my words.
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The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
A revolting thing to say from a revolting person with revolting views.
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I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
A revolting thing to say from a revolting person with revolting views.
I know what you hold against my views, but why are Nocturnalist's views revolting in your opinion? Is it because he actually shows an open mind with regards to the Holocaust myth, rather than blindly taking it for granted as you are doing. What has he said or done that makes you think so poorly of him?
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The world would have been a much better place is Hitler had won the war and the American-English-French-Sovjet alliance had lost.
I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
A revolting thing to say from a revolting person with revolting views.
QFT. Odeon.
Lucifer is right, you can't talk to a madman, who has his head so far up his bum that he is looking out his mouth.
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I think that is an abomnible notion. That is a revolting thing to say.
A revolting thing to say from a revolting person with revolting views.
I know what you hold against my views, but why are Nocturnalist's views revolting in your opinion? Is it because he actually shows an open mind with regards to the Holocaust myth, rather than blindly taking it for granted as you are doing. What has he said or done that makes you think so poorly of him?
No, your views are. Reread Nocti's post and my response, in sequence.
Nazi fuckwit.
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No, your views are. Reread Nocti's post and my response, in sequence.
You said "A revolting thing to say from a revolting person with revolting views." The use of the word "from" implies that you were referring to him and not to me. If you were referring to me, you should have used "about" instead.
Anyway, I don't mind being offended by a narrowminded and prejudiced liberal moron like yourself. Coming from someone like you, it is actually a compliment when being called revolting ;)
Nazi fuckwit.
It is very telling about your character that you can't write a single post in this thread without using profanity.
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And it's very telling that in your fetid swamp of a brain that you can't post without introducing bullshit propaganda from the most unreliable of sources. What was your first source? Helen Demidenko? She turned out to be a fraud and a liar, and got carpeted. The internet? Do you believe everything you read on the net, or see on Youtube? Did you realise that a lot of it is posted by kids who weren't even born when the Holocaust happened, let alone saw any of it, and the rest is propaganda from fascist authorites that are connected to the neo-Nazi movement and Bada Meinhoff, which are two criminal organizations out to resurrect the ideals of your heros. Oh, you quote books; books written by those same revisionists who wouldn't know if their arses were on fire in the middle of a summer heatwave. Oh, you say that you have a career in IT, and can get any reliable source you want. Well, jackass, anyone can get a position and a degree in IT; as long as you can put together a computer and type two words in a document, you are home and hosed. And secondly, your sources are as unreliable as yesterday's newspaper. Are you a fan of Newscorp and Murdoch? Then you should know the bullshit they produce. Same as Fox. IT degrees and jobs are a dime a dozen. If I were looking for employment, I'd want something with a little more skill and diversity. So you sir, are a liar, a bigot, a fascist and a jackanapse. I feel you are obsessed with this drivel, and it's time we moved on to something more enthralling, like the weather.
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And it's very telling that in your fetid swamp of a brain that you can't post without introducing bullshit propaganda from the most unreliable of sources.
How do you judge whether a source is unreliable or not? Whether it agrees with you or not?
What was your first source?
My source for what?
Helen Demidenko? She turned out to be a fraud and a liar, and got carpeted.
I haven't even heard of her.
The internet? Do you believe everything you read on the net, or see on Youtube?
No I don't. It is, however, an easy way to find numerous articles from numerous points of view and compare their arguments with one another and with the available evidence.
Did you realise that a lot of it is posted by kids who weren't even born when the Holocaust happened, let alone saw any of it
Obviously...;
[...], and the rest is propaganda from fascist authorites that are connected to the neo-Nazi movement and Bada Meinhoff, which are two criminal organizations out to resurrect the ideals of your heros.
Rassinier is one of the first Holocaust Revisionist. He was a former inmate of the German concentration camp system himself and he became a Holocaust Revisionist because he was disgusted by the lies told about the German concentration camp. Josef Ginsburg is a Jew who suffered from anti-Jewish measures taken during WWII by other countries as well as Germany and he's also a Holocaust Revisionist.
Those are just two of the most obvious examples. Far from all Holocaust Revisionisits are antisemites or people born after the war.
Oh, you quote books; books written by those same revisionists who wouldn't know if their arses were on fire in the middle of a summer heatwave.
Have you read ANY of them?
And secondly, your sources are as unreliable as yesterday's newspaper.
Based on what?
Are you a fan of Newscorp and Murdoch? Then you should know the bullshit they produce. Same as Fox.
A fan of Newcorp and Murdoch? You're kidding, right?
I object to their neocon rubbish as much as I object to liberal rubbish.
IT degrees and jobs are a dime a dozen. If I were looking for employment, I'd want something with a little more skill and diversity.
I'm an IT CONSULTANT. Consultancy is one of the most diverse jobs in IT and it definitely allows you to build up a lot of skill and experience. It's also one of the most well-paid jobs in IT.
So you sir, are a liar, a bigot, a fascist and a jackanapse. I feel you are obsessed with this drivel, and it's time we moved on to something more enthralling, like the weather.
You just feel that way because you're a primitive decadent idiot.
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IT consultant? that's like a helpdesk wanker. 'Hello, helpdesk.... Er, Windows, what's that?' They know even less than the nerds building the stuff, or the programmers writing the software. Dime a dozen job with no skill and no future.
At least in primative times they didn't have fuktards like you trying to rewrite history to account for the fact your idols fucked up in the first place. Nazis. fucking geocidal mass murderer. No excuse can be given for them.
Reviosionist are all liars and dolts who aren't happy with how things turned out, so they want history to be rewritten to reflect their myopia and narrowmindedness. Liars, miscreants and frauds, the lot of them. Including you.
I don't read bullshit Nazi propaganda written by people with an agenda to recreate a time of mass murder and genocide. If you want to jack off to such crap, go ahead; but I will not sully my screen with the ramblings of liars and frauds. Nor will I waste my hard-earned on books written by people supporting the Master race who proposed Fahrenheit 451 and the bookburning associated with it. Hypocritical charlatains.
It is the fact that you are supporting the rantings of a group of mass murderers and genocidal maniacs that is insulting to anyone's intelligence. How someone like you with a professed IQ of yours can sit there and publicly quote this drivel proves your are as insane as any other war-mongering power crazed goose stepping imbecile.
Do you discuss this shit with your family? Honestly? If they aggree with you, then they are as equally retarded. Maybe you should shut the fuck up when they tell you, becuae your viewpoints are poisonous ramblings and the only purpose they serve is to pervert history and rewrite atrocities to make them look like your lot were the victims.
Get over it, dickwad. Your side lost, and it's a fucking good thing for the rest of mankind they did. You wouldn't be alive today using your computer if your side had won, for sure.
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IT consultant? that's like a helpdesk wanker. 'Hello, helpdesk.... Er, Windows, what's that?' They know even less than the nerds building the stuff, or the programmers writing the software. Dime a dozen job with no skill and no future.
I work for a company that is hired by other companies to extend, modify or implement their production environment... or to just manage it. We are hired when internal employees don't suffice and my job varies from debugging existing code and implementing new code to designing print forms, data models and data extraction methods. Every project is different and it's anything BUT the job of a "helpdesk wanker".
At least in primative times they didn't have fuktards like you trying to rewrite history to account for the fact your idols fucked up in the first place.
There would be no need to question history books if they were actually based on facts.
Nazis. fucking geocidal mass murderer. No excuse can be given for them.
No excuse can be given for geocidal mass murderer. However, that's not what happened in Hitler Germany.
Reviosionist are all liars and dolts who aren't happy with how things turned out, so they want history to be rewritten to reflect their myopia and narrowmindedness.
Then what about Rassinier and Ginsberg, whom I mentioned earlier? How would either have benefited from Hitler winning the war?
Hypocritical charlatains.
That's the best description one can give of those lovely British "democrats" who falsely accuse the Germans for genocides while they themselves are responsible for the death of millions of Bengals in 1943 alone.
It is the fact that you are supporting the rantings of a group of mass murderers and genocidal maniacs that is insulting to anyone's intelligence.
I'm not supporting the rantings of a group of mass murderers and genocidal maniacs.
Do you discuss this shit with your family? Honestly?
I discuss this with my girlfriend and those friends who are open to this sort of debate. My parents aren't open to debate, but they are aware of my views on those issues.
Maybe you should shut the fuck up when they tell you, becuae your viewpoints are poisonous ramblings and the only purpose they serve is to pervert history and rewrite atrocities to make them look like your lot were the victims.
What a load of rubbish....
Get over it, dickwad. Your side lost, and it's a fucking good thing for the rest of mankind they did. You wouldn't be alive today using your computer if your side had won, for sure.
I'm pretty sure life of most Europeans would have been MUCH better had Hitler won.
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Czech mistreatment? Bullshit. The Czechs had the same thing happen to them when the Nazis marched through toward Russia as had happen to the Pols. The Pols were quite within their right to stick it to Hitler, given that he wanted THEIR land and their territory. 1939 proved them right.
*Cough cough* Their land? 52% of the people in West Prussia (Small Pomerania, "Polish corridor") were Germans. The province was given to Poland in 1919, without plebiscite. 97% of the population in the free city of Danzig were Germans too but were denied a volunarily return to the Reich beacuse of Polish demands. The majority of the population in East-Upper Silesia were Poles, but they voted for Germany in the 1921 plebiscite nevertheless. The French then gave their province to Poland against the will of the majority!
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*Cough cough* Their land? 52% of the people in West Prussia (Small Pomerania, "Polish corridor") were Germans.
If I'm not mistaking, that number even was a lot higher in 1918.
*The province was given to Poland in 1919, without plebiscite.
Actually it was the allied authorities who decided to create a Polish state by taking areas of Germany, Austria-Hungary as well as Russia. There was no Polish state in 1918 and such a state hadn't existed for quite some time. Germans had no say in this whatsoever, even though it had been German land for many centuries.
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"Nach dem Ersten Weltkrieg sollten nach dem Versailler Vertrag Teile des Grenzverlaufs zwischen Polen und Deutschland per Volksabstimmungen geregelt werden. Zwischen Kriegsende und Abstimmung kam es zu gewaltsamen Auseinandersetzungen zwischen polnischen Einwohnern, die den Anschluss an Polen forderten, und deutschen Polizeieinheiten sowie Freikorps (Aufstände in Oberschlesien). Am Abstimmungstag, dem 20. März 1921 stimmten bei einer Wahlbeteiligung von 97,5 Prozent 707.045 (59,4 Prozent) Oberschlesier, also auch viele, die in Volkszählungen Polnisch als Muttersprache angegeben hatten, für Deutschland und 479.232 (40,6 Prozent) für Polen. Das Abstimmungsgebiet stellte zudem nur den Teil Oberschlesiens dar, in dem bei Volkszählungen ein hoher Anteil slawischsprachiger Bevölkerung ermittelt worden war. So umfasste das Abstimmungsgebiet zusätzlich auch einen kleinen Teil des niederschlesischen Landkreises Namslau – die Landkreise Falkenberg O.S., Grottkau, Neisse und der Westteil des Landkreises Neustadt O.S. sowie der bereits 1920 an die Tschechoslowakei abgetretene Südteil des Kreises Ratibor, das Hultschiner Ländchen, waren dagegen von der Abstimmung ausgeschlossen
Im Mai kam es zu einem weiteren Aufstand mit dem Ziel der kompletten Angliederung an Polen, der ziemlich erfolgreich verlief. 1922 kam dann der kleinere (29%), aber dichter besiedelte Teil Oberschlesiens, „Ostoberschlesien“ genannt und mit ihm der Großteil des Oberschlesischen Industriegebiets mit der Hälfte aller Hüttenwerke, einem Großteil der Kohle- und Eisenerzvorkommen und den wirtschaftlich bedeutenden Bergbauregionen, auf Beschluss des Völkerbundes vom 10. Oktober 1921 zur neugegründeten Autonomen Woiwodschaft Schlesien in Polen. Die Städte und Industrieorte Königshütte (Królewska Huta), Kattowitz (Katowice), Myslowitz (Mysłowice), Schwientochlowitz (Świętochłowice), Laurahütte (Huta Laura), Siemianowitz (Siemianowice Śląskie), Bismarckhütte (Hajduki Wielkie), Lipine (Lipiny), Friedenshütte (Nowy Bytom) und Ruda wurden damit polnisch"
Oberschlesien (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberschlesien)
The Leauge of Nations gave away eastern Upper Silesia against the will of the majority of those who lived there. In West Prussia there wasn't even a plebiscite at all.
I was wrong about the percentage in West Prussia, though. 66% were Germans:
"Inhabitant:
* 66% Germans, mainly descendant down-German Saxonia and germanisierter Slawen. Thus German immigrants from Westphalia populated the city Thorn.
* 33% Poland, seizes all to the left of the Weichsel, there also the 100,000 Kassuben."
West Prussia (http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate_url_content?.intl=se&lp=de_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.deutsche-kaiserreich.de%2f)
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*Cough cough* Their land? 52% of the people in West Prussia (Small Pomerania, "Polish corridor") were Germans.
If I'm not mistaking, that number even was a lot higher in 1918.
*The province was given to Poland in 1919, without plebiscite.
Actually it was the allied authorities who decided to create a Polish state by taking areas of Germany, Austria-Hungary as well as Russia. There was no Polish state in 1918 and such a state hadn't existed for quite some time. Germans had no say in this whatsoever, even though it had been German land for many centuries.
West Prussia and Posen had been Prussian provinces since 1772 and 1793 respectively and Upper Silesia had been German/Austrian since the 13th Century. Poland was eradicated from the map of Europe 1772-95 because of inner turmoil.
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Nazi imbecile. Say hello to Hitler when you reach hell, my friend. Even though he was a devout Christian, no god would forgive those atrocities. I really am suprised that you were let out of the asylum with views like those. As I said, only crazy fuckwits and revisionist hypocritcal morons believe in the shit you are shovelling, and obviously you do need help. Your IQ and intellect is a sham, and a lie, and your opinion is that of a murderous power mad inbred maniac.I bet you sided with Tojo and Hirohito as well, you retarded fuckwit. You give autistics and Aspies a bad name, and you make me sick.
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Why don't you give back 1/3 of the United States to Mexico? It has been in your possesion for only 160 years.
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Because I'm not American, buttfuck. They can have it, if they want. The abos ain't gettinghere, because they would only piss it down the drain. Let the Mexicans cut the lawn, seeing it's what they are good at. But it's hardly a comparison to the Nazi bullshit your friend is on about. Jackbooted imbeciles - fucking wankers. :wanker:
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I thought you were American since your profile has an American timezone.
The Germans took parts of Poland in 1772, 1793 and 1795, because they could. The Americans took about half of Mexico 1836-53, because they could. I don't see the difference.
Here is Central Europe in 1910, with state lines. The green areas were ethnically German.
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Why don't you give back 1/3 of the United States to Mexico? It has been in your possesion for only 160 years.
An entirely good argument, but utterly wasted at our "chosen" idiot ;)
When someone steals land from Germany to create a new nation against the will of the inhabitants, it is all very benign. When those inhabitants are oppressed and Germany invades that new country because its leaders are unwilling to solve that problem, Germany is EVIL. That is the logic followed by "democratic" nations and it's utterly shocking to see how many people keep buying into that rubbish generation after generation.
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Because I'm not American, buttfuck. They can have it, if they want. The abos ain't gettinghere, because they would only piss it down the drain.
Then give back Northern Ireland, Scotland and what's left of your Commonwealth.
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Other examples of "democratic" logic.....
-- When a national-socialist state censors its dissidents, it is an enfringement of human rights and an obvious sign of tyranny. When a "democratic" state censors its dissidents, it is all for the protection of human rights against tyranny.
-- When the national-socialist state causes the death of a few hundred of thousand in concentration camps by being unable to provide enough recources in the midst of losing a war, it's accused of murdering millions and this accusation is repeated ad nauseam. When the British empire causes the death of a few million of Bengals by confiscating all the rice, that's just a tiny mistake not even mentioned in most history books.
-- When the British start throwing their bombs on German civilian areas, it is a normal method of defense. When the national-socialist state responds by throwing bombs on London, it is a crime against humanity. Then we even ignore the fact that the most horrific bombings came from British and American bombs.
-- When Jews call themselves God's chosen people and they actively work against the interests of the host people among whom they live and whom they despise, it is those who object to this and who want to put an end to this being called inhuman.
-- etc.
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No, your views are. Reread Nocti's post and my response, in sequence.
You said "A revolting thing to say from a revolting person with revolting views." The use of the word "from" implies that you were referring to him and not to me. If you were referring to me, you should have used "about" instead.
Anyway, I don't mind being offended by a narrowminded and prejudiced liberal moron like yourself. Coming from someone like you, it is actually a compliment when being called revolting ;)
Nazi fuckwit.
It is very telling about your character that you can't write a single post in this thread without using profanity.
Yes, it tells us that I can't stand the sight of nazi fuckwits like you.
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Other examples of "democratic" logic.....
-- When a national-socialist state censors its dissidents, it is an enfringement of human rights and an obvious sign of tyranny. When a "democratic" state censors its dissidents, it is all for the protection of human rights against tyranny.
I know of a Swiss woman who had first been raped by African immigrants, then having her daughter raped and murdered by African immigrants. She got a harder punishment for calling immigrants "fucking niggers" than the niggers got for raping and murdering her daughter...
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Yes, it tells us that I can't stand the sight of nazi fuckwits like you.
The only thing you can hold against me, is that my views are controversial and that I openly express those views. Such a judgement of me based on those criteria only makes you a very prejudiced individual.
Other examples of "democratic" logic.....
-- When a national-socialist state censors its dissidents, it is an enfringement of human rights and an obvious sign of tyranny. When a "democratic" state censors its dissidents, it is all for the protection of human rights against tyranny.
I know of a Swiss woman who had first been raped by African immigrants, then having her daughter raped and murdered by African immigrants. She got a harder punishment for calling immigrants "fucking niggers" than the niggers got for raping and murdering her daughter...
Another wonderful example of the logic of "democracy".
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I'm an IT CONSULTANT. Consultancy is one of the most diverse jobs in IT and it definitely allows you to build up a lot of skill and experience. It's also one of the most well-paid jobs in IT.
Actually it's a title that says nothing whatsoever about what you do, your pay, or your level of skill. I would hazard that given your fuckwittery here, you aren't the sharpest tool in the box.
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Yes, it tells us that I can't stand the sight of nazi fuckwits like you.
The only thing you can hold against me, is that my views are controversial and that I openly express those views. Such a judgement of me based on those criteria only makes you a very prejudiced individual.
No, they indicate that I don't agree with any of your views. Your views are repulsive.
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Actually it's a title that says nothing whatsoever about what you do, your pay, or your level of skill.
That's as much detail as I'm willing to give on a forum filled with narrowminded idiots.
I would hazard that given your fuckwittery here, you aren't the sharpest tool in the box.
Another obvious prejudiced statement.
No, they indicate that I don't agree with any of your views.
Decent people don't treat others like shit because for not agreeing with them. Only prejudiced bigots like yourself behave that way.
Your views are repulsive.
That's just your personal opinion. It doesn't make my views any less true and any less moral.
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By the way, you can't tell if there is nothing on which we agree. You know not even 1% of the views that I hold.
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Didn't the German people undoubtedly suffer much more than it "deserved"?
German speaking areas in 1910 and today:
[attachment deleted by admin]
[attachment deleted by admin]
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ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
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Didn't the German people undoubtedly suffer much more than it "deserved"?
They certainly did. Below, you find an interesting list of recources from the Axis history forum dealing with Allied war crimes (on Germany and other nations).
Anglo-American War Crimes
Generally
Theory and practice of the allied warfare
viewtopic.php?t=25092 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25092")
Massacre of Waffen-SS soldiers by Allied forces in May 1945
viewtopic.php?t=11153 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=11153")
Warcrimes Allies
viewtopic.php?t=4882 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4882")
Allied war crimes
viewtopic.php?t=5035 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5035")
War crimes in western desert campaign
viewtopic.php?t=46715 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46715")
Number of German POWs wounded & killed by US/UK troops
viewtopic.php?t=62528 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=62528")
(UK + US) 1945 rape rating (estimated)
viewtopic.php?t=42712 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42712")
Robbery of German patents by western allies in WWII
viewtopic.php?t=44023 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=44023")
Breitman's Discovery of Allied Decodes about the Holocaust
viewtopic.php?t=48883 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=48883")
The role of the US - in the death camps
viewtopic.php?t=42760 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42760")
How early in the war was the reality of the Holocaust known
viewtopic.php?t=12067 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12067")
Bombing Auschwitz
duh
viewtopic.php?t=80176 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=80176")
Israeli President: "Allies should have bombed Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?p=630866 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=630866")
FDR Knew About The Holocaust Early & The Plot To Spare N
viewtopic.php?t=49973 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49973")
The Bombing of Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?t=83323 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=83323")
Auschwitz and Anglo-American Air Power: Historical Debates and Military Capabilities
http://www.bvalphaserver.com/documents/ADA319024.pdf (http://www.bvalphaserver.com/documents/ADA319024.pdf)
Strategic Bombing
US Air Operations in Europe Apr-May 1945
viewtopic.php?t=25318 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25318")
Can the bombing of cities be considered as "Warcrimes"?
viewtopic.php?t=9136 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9136")
Dresden 1945
viewtopic.php?t=1000 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1000")
Dresden 1945
viewtopic.php?t=4838 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4838")
Bombing of Dresden
viewtopic.php?t=20370 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=20370")
Destruction of Dresden
viewtopic.php?t=43901 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43901")
Dresden bombing & post-liberation Euro gas chambers
viewtopic.php?t=33480 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=33480")
Dresden photos
viewtopic.php?t=27506 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=27506")
USAF Historical Analysis of the 14-15 February 1945 Bombings of Dresden
viewtopic.php?p=304620#304620 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=304620#304620")
Surface and subterranean petroleum, oil and lubricant facilities in the Dresden area
viewtopic.php?p=395916#395916 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=395916#395916")
Churchill & Harris Terror Raids
viewtopic.php?t=29691 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=29691")
Debate over UK WWII strategic bombing
viewtopic.php?t=25898 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25898")
Terror bombing -- The Nazis started it
viewtopic.php?t=25592 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25592")
US Strategic Bombing Survey (Europe) on bombing accuracy
viewtopic.php?p=395939#395939 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=395939#395939")
Carpet-bombing towns and cities
viewtopic.php?t=44286 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=44286")
Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- War crimes?
viewtopic.php?t=9209 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9209")
Lessons of Hiroshima
viewtopic.php?t=5507 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5507")
The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb (1959)
viewtopic.php?t=66910 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=66910")
Repatriation
Operation Keelhaul/Forced Repatriation
viewtopic.php?t=24513 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24513")
Allied War Crime Bleiburg
viewtopic.php?t=9006 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9006")
15th May 1945 - Bleiburg
viewtopic.php?t=50001 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50001")
UK
Generally
Use of gas by Britain
viewtopic.php?t=47732 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47732")
Churchill's Warcrimes
viewtopic.php?t=25091 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25091")
Churchill, one of the greatest war criminals
viewtopic.php?t=10788 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10788")
Churchill and unconditional surrender
viewtopic.php?t=9611 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9611")
Treatment of POWs
SS murdered by the British in 1940
viewtopic.php?t=23141 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23141")
KZ staff arrested at Belsen
viewtopic.php?t=3864 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3864")
Alleged massacre of POWs at Nahrendorf
viewtopic.php?t=51152 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51152")
Beatings of Field Marshal Milch by British troops in 1945
viewtopic.php?t=49004 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49004")
Allied war crime in Italy
viewtopic.php?t=49390 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49390")
German soldiers executed at Normandy
viewtopic.php?t=46398 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46398")
Danish W-SS POW executed by British forces 11 April 1945
viewtopic.php?t=18826 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=18826")
Lynching of Luftwaffe airmen by British mobs
viewtopic.php?t=38195 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=38195")
The SAS and Nazi War Criminals
viewtopic.php?t=708 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=708")
Unpunished Royal Navy war crimes of WW1 & WW2
viewtopic.php?t=46837 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46837")
Canada
Incidents involving Canadian and German units in Normandy
viewtopic.php?t=5674 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5674")
New Zealand
German claims of Australian/New Zealand Attrocities on Crete
viewtopic.php?t=68703 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=68703")
War crimes in western desert campaign
viewtopic.php?p=419531 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=419531")
US
Generally
Did the US drop booby-trapped toys in WWII?
viewtopic.php?t=44157 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=44157")
Treatment of POWs
45th (Thunderbird) Division during the invasion of Sicily
viewtopic.php?t=24614 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24614")
Were atrocities committed by the 45 (US) Division in Sicily?
viewtopic.php?t=12781 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12781")
Forgetting his character in no time
viewtopic.php?t=25444 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25444")
Warcrimes against 17th SS Goetz von Berlichingen
viewtopic.php?t=24007 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24007")
Slaughter of soldiers of the 17.SS-Pz.Gr.Div. "GvB"
viewtopic.php?t=47067 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47067")
GI executions of German POW
viewtopic.php?t=8947 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8947")
American & French (post) war crimes
viewtopic.php?t=8288 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8288")
Alleged massacre of POWs at Chenogne
viewtopic.php?t=51147 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51147")
Alleged massacre of POWs at Webling
viewtopic.php?t=51148 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51148")
US War Crimes and "Foot Soldier"
viewtopic.php?t=47310 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47310")
Alleged orders from Americans not to take POWs for a week
viewtopic.php?t=47259 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47259")
Seidler-De Zayas list of American war crimes
viewtopic.php?t=46211 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46211")
The US 45th Infantry Division at Dachau
viewtopic.php?t=1161 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1161")
Massacre of SS POWs at Dachau
viewtopic.php?t=43919 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43919")
Murder of Dachau guards
viewtopic.php?t=8497 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8497")
Dachau guards
viewtopic.php?t=39246 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39246")
April 30- The Day U.S. Troops Liberated Dachau
viewtopic.php?t=48745 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=48745")
Eisenhower refused the SS surrender in Austria
viewtopic.php?t=12733 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12733")
Eisenhower's guilt?
viewtopic.php?t=10112 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10112")
50,000 Germans died in US captivity in one small area??
viewtopic.php?t=12779 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12779")
James Bacque's work on the deliberate starvation
viewtopic.php?t=49317 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49317")
USA dismissed Switzerland as protecting power of German POWS
viewtopic.php?t=48193 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=48193")
Guess who’s Bacque
viewtopic.php?t=43792 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43792")
One million German POWs killed by US/UK?
viewtopic.php?t=27723 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=27723")
Chock Full of Death; German POWs by James Baque
viewtopic.php?t=17360 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=17360")
American and Franch (post) war crimes
viewtopic.php?t=8288 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8288")
German POW treatment by Americans
viewtopic.php?t=8614 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8614")
German POWs
viewtopic.php?t=141 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=141")
Mass grave found near PWE 337 of Coltano (Tuscany, Italy)
viewtopic.php?t=48329 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=48329")
Newspaper clipping file on postwar POW release controversy, beginning at:
viewtopic.php?p=602904#602904 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=602904#602904")
Mal-treatment of German POWs
viewtopic.php?t=78538 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=78538")
The US and POW Labor in WWII
viewtopic.php?p=359155 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=359155")
Western Allies hostage-takings in West Germany 1945-1947
viewtopic.php?t=45841 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45841")
Malmedy Massacre Investigation (Baldwin Report)
viewtopic.php?t=102513 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=102513")
Postwar occupation of Germany
Morgenthau Plan
viewtopic.php?t=8517 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8517")
Plunder in postwar Germany
viewtopic.php?t=4055 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4055")
JCS 1067 and US military government in Germany
viewtopic.php?t=21690 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=21690")
Archives of the US Army in Europe
http://www.history.hqusareur.army.mil/pubs.htm (http://www.history.hqusareur.army.mil/pubs.htm)
Soviet containment and Marshall Plan
viewtopic.php?t=21292 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=21292")
Documents on the US Occupation of Germany 1945
viewtopic.php?t=69515 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=69515")
US policy and Nazi war crimes 1943-1946
viewtopic.php?t=33403 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=33403")
Mobility, Vigilance, and Justice: The US Army Constabulary in Germany, 1946-1953
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC/Repository/M ... 43-DOC.pdf (http://"http://usacac.army.mil/CAC/Repository/Materials/CombatStudiesInstitute-200508121143-DOC.pdf")
Internment of Japanese-Americans
The decision to evacuate Japanese-Americans in 1942
viewtopic.php?t=51352 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51352")
Concentration camps in USA during WW2
viewtopic.php?t=50048 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50048")
Japanese internment
viewtopic.php?t=45851 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45851")
Concentration Camps - In the USA...
viewtopic.php?t=15305 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15305")
American Concentration Camps in WWII...
viewtopic.php?t=51935 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=51935")
American concentration camps
viewtopic.php?t=34967 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=34967")
Japanese Evacuation From the West Coast
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... ard-5.html (http://"http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-WH-Guard/USA-WH-Guard-5.html")
The Relocation Program
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/ATO/Adm ... index.html (http://"http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/ATO/Admin/WRA/WRA-Program/index.html")
French War Crimes:
SS French troops killed by "free French" forces
viewtopic.php?t=2282 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=2282")
SS-Charlemagne Denkemal
viewtopic.php?t=61337 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61337")
American & French (post) war crimes
viewtopic.php?t=8288 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8288")
General Juin's proclamation to colonial troops to rape
viewtopic.php?t=46416 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46416")
Miscellaneous allied war crimes:
What war crimes did the allies admit to?
viewtopic.php?t=25237 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25237")
Czech government acknowledges unacceptable 1945 events
viewtopic.php?t=25225 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25225")
French & Canadian troops
viewtopic.php?t=12250 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12250")
Rapes committed by Germans, Allies & Russian Bolsheviks
viewtopic.php?t=10196 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10196")
Plunder in postwar Germany
viewtopic.php?t=4055 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4055")
Camp guards killed by inmates
viewtopic.php?t=3826 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3826")
Has an allied war criminal ever been sentenced?
viewtopic.php?t=1279 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1279")
German guard beaten up by inmates
viewtopic.php?t=50879 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50879")
US War Crime?
viewtopic.php?t=50878 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50878")
Allied war crimes against Germany's Axis allies
viewtopic.php?t=47396 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47396")
Allied rapists
viewtopic.php?t=30923 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30923")
Treatment of women who had relations with Germans in Europe
viewtopic.php?t=46614 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46614")
Jewish revenge on SS
viewtopic.php?t=46654 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46654")]
Brutalities against noncombantants and Germans
viewtopic.php?t=45911 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45911")
Eichmann in Jerusalem
viewtopic.php?t=26942 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26942")
Bush at Auschwitz compared to what Hoess said
viewtopic.php?t=23580 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23580")
About Rudolf Hoess
viewtopic.php?t=12242 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12242")
Something interesting about Hoess's confession
viewtopic.php?t=5408 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5408")
An odd statement by Rudolf Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?t=334 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=334")
Crimes against humanity and crimes against Germany
viewtopic.php?t=42762 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42762")
Was the killing of Admiral Yamamoto a war crime?
viewtopic.php?t=42073 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42073")
Internment of enemy civilians
viewtopic.php?t=42162 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42162")
Crimes attributed to Italian partisans
The US Army and Italian partisans
viewtopic.php?t=50748 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50748")
Crimes of the Italian partisans
viewtopic.php?t=47225 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47225")
Civilian casualties of Italian partisans, 1943-45
viewtopic.php?t=46536 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46536")
Crimes attributed to Yugoslav partisans
Crimes of the Yugoslav Partisans
viewtopic.php?t=47228 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47228")
Tito: war criminal?
viewtopic.php?t=52664 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52664")
A documentary (banned from) Slovenian TV
viewtopic.php?t=40135 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=40135")
Allied war crimes Bleiburg
viewtopic.php?t=9006 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9006")
15th May 1945 - Bleiburg
viewtopic.php?t=50001 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50001")
Mass grave of Partizan victims near Zagreb
viewtopic.php?t=61738 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61738")
Foibe! Tito's Infamy
viewtopic.php?t=61345 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61345")
Crimes attributed to Czech partisans
Czech crimes?
viewtopic.php?t=31943 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=31943")
Polish War Crimes:
My comments on Polish atrocities against the Germans
viewtopic.php?t=6551 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6551")
How did that Polish-German atrocity discussion turn out?
viewtopic.php?t=6412 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6412")
In the past, undeniable truth . . . and now?
viewtopic.php?t=4495 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4495")
Der Bromberger Blutsonntag
viewtopic.php?t=3697 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3697")
Polish atrocities against Germans
viewtopic.php?t=1960 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1960")
1939 Polish-German atrocity
viewtopic.php?t=1935 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1935")
Polish brutality against ethnic German civilians in WWII
viewtopic.php?t=42829 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42829")
Polish troops in Falaise
viewtopic.php?t=46969 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46969")
Poland faces up to the horror of its role in the holocaust
viewtopic.php?t=12345 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12345")
Poland and the Kristallnacht
viewtopic.php?t=4407 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4407")
Poles blamed for wartime massacre
viewtopic.php?t=4506 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=4506")
Polish views of Jews during WW2
viewtopic.php?t=47644 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47644")
Soviet War Crimes:
Generally
Circumstantial proof of planned Soviet crimes against Germans
viewtopic.php?t=12769 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12769")
Know of any books about NKVD war crimes?? (Except Katyn)
viewtopic.php?t=12269 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12269")
"Stalin's War of Extermination" by Joachim Hoffma
viewtopic.php?t=10129 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10129")
Nazi v. Soviet Terror in Poland
viewtopic.php?t=10980 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10980")
KGB quotas?
viewtopic.php?t=11276 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=11276")
Stalin's holocaust was worse than Hitler's?
viewtopic.php?t=2184 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=2184")
Soviet Genocide and mass murder
viewtopic.php?t=6337 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6337")
Soviet Russian Execution Orders
viewtopic.php?t=7968 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=7968")
Soviet crimes out . . .
viewtopic.php?t=5453 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5453")
A serious question about Russian war criminals
viewtopic.php?t=2672 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=2672")
Why double standards?
viewtopic.php?t=3286 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3286")
Ukrainian genocide
viewtopic.php?t=50603 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=50603")
Ukrainian Holodomor Genocide/Famine of the 30's
viewtopic.php?t=49872 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49872")
Crimes of Lenin & his government
viewtopic.php?t=48357 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=48357")
Pre-war crimes of the NKVD
viewtopic.php?t=45550 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45550")
Books and sources on Soviet mass starvings and/or genocide ?
viewtopic.php?t=45870 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45870")
Red holocaust
viewtopic.php?t=45757 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45757")
Murder of Russian children by Red Army Troops
viewtopic.php?t=43881 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=43881")
Holocaust an evolution from the Bolshevik de-kulaktization?
viewtopic.php?t=42072 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42072")
Terrors of Soviet regime - documented facts
viewtopic.php?t=39995 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39995")
Polish historian Bogan Musial on "Judeo-Bolshevism"
viewtopic.php?t=42172 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42172")
For "General Anders" [Nazi v. Soviet Occupations of Poland]
viewtopic.php?t=1053 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1053")
Stalinist mass killings
viewtopic.php?t=32634 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=32634")
Allied War Crimes : The Dragoun Mission
viewtopic.php?t=31703 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=31703")
Massacre in Lvov, Ukraine 1941
viewtopic.php?t=28082 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=28082")
From Russia with Lvov
viewtopic.php?t=5437 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5437")
Zuroff’s latest
viewtopic.php?t=5022 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5022")
Nazi Camps were used by soviets for murdering german citizen
viewtopic.php?t=1422 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1422")
NKVD execution grounds at Toksovo excavated
viewtopic.php?t=17634 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=17634")
Stalins purges: Responsible for 20 million deaths.
viewtopic.php?t=61548 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61548")
Some NKVD/GULAG statistics
viewtopic.php?t=55467 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=55467")
Stalin's crimes -- How bad were they?
viewtopic.php?t=61676 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61676")
Stalin's regime never condemned for the crimes during WW II
viewtopic.php?t=61192 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61192")
Summary of the Report on Deported Nations
viewtopic.php?t=77573 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=77573")
Soviet Death Toll in WWII As A Whole
viewtopic.php?t=96343 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=96343")
Deaths attributable to the Stalin regime
viewtopic.php?t=96274 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=96274")
Massacre in Lvov, Ukraine 1941
viewtopic.php?t=28082 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=28082")
Soviet clearing murders 1941
viewtopic.php?t=76922 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=76922")
Killer Submarine [sinking of Wilhelm Gustloff]
viewtopic.php?t=2640 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=2640")
Wilhelm Gustloff
viewtopic.php?t=41999 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=41999")
Let Soviet era war criminal be brought to trial
viewtopic.php?t=30737 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30737")
Investigations in Baltic countries
viewtopic.php?t=66892 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=66892")
Latvian prosecutions of Soviet war criminals
viewtopic.php?t=66901 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=66901")
Treatment of POWs
Of 120,000 soldiers from 6th Army captured, only 5,000 return
viewtopic.php?t=16935 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=16935")
What happened to Germans who surrendered at Stalingrad?
viewtopic.php?t=11576 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=11576")
Does anyone know how many German POWs died . . .
viewtopic.php?t=24494 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24494")
Another example of Soviet murder of POWs
viewtopic.php?t=12773 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=12773")
So what was survival rate of German POWs in Soviet Union?
viewtopic.php?t=25227 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25227")
German POWs murdered in Broniki, Ukraine, in 1941
viewtopic.php?t=9229 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9229")
Soviet Union murdered German prisoners of wars
viewtopic.php?t=1696 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1696")
Wounded German soldiers murdered in Feodosia, Crimea 1941
viewtopic.php?t=9273 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9273")
Soviet atrocities on German POWs in early phases of war
viewtopic.php?t=3281 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3281")
Captured Helferinnen used as sex slaves?
viewtopic.php?t=46608 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46608")
Warcrimes of Soviet partisans at Finnish front 1941-44
viewtopic.php?t=47227 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47227")
Bolshevik partisan ferocious brutality against German POWs
viewtopic.php?t=10405 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10405")
German PoWs forced into slave labour by Soviets
viewtopic.php?t=45519 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45519")
Usage of German PoWs by the Soviets on the battlefield
viewtopic.php?t=45438 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45438")
Did the Russians rape German POWs?
viewtopic.php?t=40640 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=40640")
Did the Geneva Convention Make Any Difference
viewtopic.php?t=10864&start=15 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10864&start=15")
The Last Known German Soldiers to be Released from the SU
viewtopic.php?t=18914 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=18914")
German soldiers in Russian captivity since the 1970s
viewtopic.php?t=32226 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=32226")
Wartime atrocities in Kresy-Siberia
viewtopic.php?t=10757 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10757")
Desecration of German graves by the Red Army
viewtopic.php?t=5217 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5217")
Soviet Documents on POW Treatment 1939-1956
viewtopic.php?t=30901 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=30901")
GUPVI (USSR POW camp's)
viewtopic.php?t=21291 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=21291")
Katyn Forest
Katyn - 1944 Soviet special commission report
viewtopic.php?t=57175 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57175")
Katyn -- the IMT spat
viewtopic.php?t=57145 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57145")
Katyn -- the 1943 O'Malley report
viewtopic.php?t=57147 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57147")
Katyn – 1952 US Congressional findings
viewtopic.php?t=57050 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57050")
Katyn -- Maps
viewtopic.php?t=57045 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57045")
The Katyn testimony of Eugen Oberhauser
viewtopic.php?t=56995 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56995")
The Katyn testimony of Boris Bazilevskiy
viewtopic.php?t=56997 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56997")
The Katyn testimony of Victor Il’ich Prosorovski
viewtopic.php?t=57002 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57002")
The Katyn testimony of marko Antonov Markov
viewtopic.php?t=57000 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57000")
The Katyn testimony of Reinhard von Eichborn
viewtopic.php?t=56993 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56993")
The Katyn testimony of Friedrich Ahrens
viewtopic.php?t=56992 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56992")
Katyn, Injustice and the IMT
viewtopic.php?t=44639 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=44639")
Katyn mass murder question
viewtopic.php?t=45481 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45481")
The Soviet war crimes against Poland: Katyn 1940
viewtopic.php?t=18124 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=18124")
Document related to the Polish POWs in USSR 1940
viewtopic.php?t=28090 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=28090")
US report about Katyn delivered to Poland?
viewtopic.php?t=19866 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=19866")
KATYN - an un-punished war crime !
viewtopic.php?t=15072 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15072")
Soviet Responsibility at Katyn: pro and con
viewtopic.php?t=56940 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=56940")
Perpetrators of the massacre in Katyn forest
viewtopic.php?t=66696 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=66696")
Katyn Massacre Documents
viewtopic.php?p=710962 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=710962")
Germans Hanged for Katyn
viewtopic.php?t=26603 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26603")
A False Confession Made by a German POW under Torture?
viewtopic.php?t=18473 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=18473")
Germans executed for Katyn
viewtopic.php?t=15730 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15730")
Rapes and other crimes against German civilians
Russian raping of liberated Jewish girls and women
viewtopic.php?t=24649 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24649")
Rapings committed by the Soviet soldiers
viewtopic.php?t=23744 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23744")
Ehrenburg
viewtopic.php?t=23999 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23999")
Information about pre-planned Soviet mass rapes in Berlin
viewtopic.php?t=5240 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5240")
German rape victims find a voice at last
viewtopic.php?t=5244 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5244")
"They raped every German female from eight to eighty"
viewtopic.php?t=2063 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=2063")
Proof of pre-planned Soviet mass rapes in Berlin
viewtopic.php?t=2580 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=2580")
Red Army rape row
viewtopic.php?t=1987 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1987")
Nemmerdorf example of pre-planned Soviet atrocity
viewtopic.php?t=1697 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1697")
German Male survivors after Berlin and Eastern Front
viewtopic.php?t=46747 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=46747")
Should Russia seek apology for Soviet war crimes in Germany?
viewtopic.php?t=10459 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10459")
Red Army Killing and Rape Crimes on German Soil
viewtopic.php?t=17654 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=17654")
Russians in Germany
viewtopic.php?t=6782 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6782")
Eye-witness account of Soviet atrocities on German civilian
viewtopic.php?t=5242 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5242")
Soviet atrocities on German civilians were pre-planned
viewtopic.php?t=3283 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3283")
German civilians were used as slave laborers by the USSR
viewtopic.php?t=3503 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3503")
Atrocities against the Germans by the Soviet Union
viewtopic.php?t=3416 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3416")
Nazi camps were used by Soviets to murder German citizens
viewtopic.php?t=1422 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1422")
Soviet atrocities on German citizens were pre-meditated
viewtopic.php?t=1123 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1123")
Stalin wanted to use German civilians as slave laborers
viewtopic.php?t=8243 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8243")
200,000? Ethnic Germans deported from eastern Europe to USSR
viewtopic.php?t=22682 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=22682")
The Soviet Army in Germany in Soviet Documents
viewtopic.php?t=10551 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=10551")
Proof of NKVD organized looting in Soviet zone of Germany
viewtopic.php?t=8245 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=8245")
Creation of GDR a Soviet war crime?
viewtopic.php?t=26251 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26251")
Postwar Expulsions:
9 million Germans expelled?
viewtopic.php?t=1698 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1698")
The fate of ethnic Germans in Yugoslavia
viewtopic.php?t=6878 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6878")
Notes from a Land of the Dead [Poland]
viewtopic.php?t=6803 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6803")
Father, shoot me [Poland]
viewtopic.php?t=6291 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6291")
Soviet forces encouraged the expulsion of Germans
viewtopic.php?t=3504 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3504")
Expulsion of German-speaking people from Alsace-Lorraine
viewtopic.php?t=6523 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=6523")
Fleeing the Red Hordes
viewtopic.php?t=45738 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=45738")
Czech Parliament Decision [on Expulsion of Sudeten Germans]
viewtopic.php?t=1826 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1826")
Soviets Order Volga Population Exiled to Siberia
viewtopic.php?t=387 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=387")
Polish President condemns "Operation Vistula" [postwar expulsion of Ukrainians]
viewtopic.php?t=1838 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1838")
Polish authorities hunt down fascist German pigs
viewtopic.php?p=1694 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1694")
How about... Jewish warcrimes?
viewtopic.php?t=23121 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=23121")
Polish brutality against ethnic German civillians in WW2
viewtopic.php?t=42829 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=42829")
How did that Polish-German atrocity discussion turn out?
viewtopic.php?p=55484 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=55484")
Let Soviet Era War Criminal be brought for trial
viewtopic.php?p=274991 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=274991")
Poland faces up to the horror of its role in the Holocaust
viewtopic.php?p=107758 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=107758")
Russian crimes against Latvians
viewtopic.php?t=3895 (http://"http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=3895")
The Bromberg Massacre, commited by Polish civilians (1939) :
(http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/Polish_Atrocities_05_files/image006.jpg)
(http://judicial-inc.biz/Broomdsb13.jpg)
The Dresden bombing, commited by US and UK bombers (1945) :
(http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWdresden2.JPG)
(http://www.wikinfo.org/upload/6/6c/Dresden.jpg)
(http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2005/05/07/1115491271_6228.jpg)
-
Some reports say that as much as 1½ million Germans were killed by the Poles in Upper Silesia, Posen and West Prussia before WWII. There actually lived >3 million Germans in Poland in 1939. And that didn't even have anything to do with Hitler, since the first Polish laws for confiscating German land came as early as 1925.
-
(http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/tunetable/pete_burns_spinning_you_right_round.jpg)
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
who, me personally?
okay - i'll just check my piggy bank.
-
(http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/tunetable/pete_burns_spinning_you_right_round.jpg)
What's the point of spamming a thread with contentless posts when you're all out of arguments? You illustrate how inept you are?
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
who, me personally?
okay - i'll just check my piggy bank.
Talk to the Rothschild family.
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
who, me personally?
okay - i'll just check my piggy bank.
Most Germans living today didn't even take part in WWII, yet there is still this whining about what the bad Germans did and that they shall pay for it forever, and obviously the rest of Europe and North America shall pay for it too for some reason, considering the immigrant policy and political correctness in the Western world of today.
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
who, me personally?
okay - i'll just check my piggy bank.
Talk to the Rothschild family.
man, if i could get that sort of dosh, i'd sleep with the rothschild family. :LMAO:
-
awwwwwwww. who else thinks theok and illusionist make a lovely
couple double act?
:wedding:
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
who, me personally?
okay - i'll just check my piggy bank.
Talk to the Rothschild family.
man, if i could get that sort of dosh, i'd sleep with the rothschild family. :LMAO:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family
Basically the richest family in the world. They piss money, since they run banks.
-
ooooh, look! it can do pretty maps, as well as putrid poetry.
a marvel in its own underwear.
/swoons.
How about giving back Northern Ireland and give the Irish £100 billion or something in compensation for the British tyranny thoroughout the centuries?
who, me personally?
okay - i'll just check my piggy bank.
Talk to the Rothschild family.
man, if i could get that sort of dosh, i'd sleep with the rothschild family. :LMAO:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family
Basically the richest family in the world. They piss money, since they run banks.
They have owned about half of Europe since the 18th Century at least.
-
Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
-
Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
-
Actually it's a title that says nothing whatsoever about what you do, your pay, or your level of skill.
That's as much detail as I'm willing to give on a forum filled with narrowminded idiots.
He's a helpdesk twat, folks.
I would hazard that given your fuckwittery here, you aren't the sharpest tool in the box.
Another obvious prejudiced statement.
Certainly not. You've been proving it ever since you arrived here.
No, they indicate that I don't agree with any of your views.
Decent people don't treat others like shit because for not agreeing with them. Only prejudiced bigots like yourself behave that way.
You are a prejudiced bigot, so what exactly did you expect?
Your views are repulsive.
That's just your personal opinion. It doesn't make my views any less true and any less moral.
You do know that Adolf would have gassed you, don't you?
-
They didn't gas autists.
-
Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
-
Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
-
Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
-
Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
Its comparing different kinds of shit, they both stink and are generally terrible for anyone else that happens to have the misfortune of being affected by them.
-
That's as much detail as I'm willing to give on a forum filled with narrowminded idiots.
He's a helpdesk twat, folks.
I guess I have to repeat myself.
I work for a company that is hired by other companies to extend, modify or implement their production environment... or to just manage it. We are hired when internal employees don't suffice and my job varies from debugging existing code and implementing new code to designing print forms, data models and data extraction methods. Every project is different and it's anything BUT the job of a "helpdesk wanker".
Another obvious prejudiced statement.
Certainly not. You've been proving it ever since you arrived here.
Disagreement with you is not a sign of stupidity. Based on our exchange thusfar, I would in fact suggest the oposite.
You are a prejudiced bigot, so what exactly did you expect?
I'm not prejudiced. Disagreement with the status quo does not imply prejucide. In fact, the contrary is often true.
You do know that Adolf would have gassed you, don't you?
I already told you that no one was being gassed in the Third Reich... not Jews nor anyone else.
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About Rothschild wealth and power in the past :
Baron James [Rothschild] built a lavish palace in Paris, where he entertained the likes of Benjamin Disraeli and Heinrich Heine. Heine recalled one visit: "I saw a gold-laced lackey bringing the baronial chamber pot along the corridor. Some speculator from the Bourse, who was passing, reverently lifted his hat to the impressive vessel." Baron James later built another palace 25 mi. east of Paris at Ferrieres. When William I of Prussia saw it, he said, "Kings could not afford this. It could only belong to a Rothschild."
source : David Wallechinsky & Irving Wallace (The People's Almanac)
and today :
From his headquarters in St James's Place in London, Jacob Rothschild has cultivated an influential set of clients, business associates and friends who have extended his interests far beyond the normal scope of a banker. He was a close personal friend of the late Diana, Princess of Wales and maintains strong personal and business links with Henry Kissinger.
His country estate has been a regular venue for visiting heads of state including Presidents Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. Margaret Thatcher received French President François Mitterrand there at a summit in 1990. He hosted the European Economic Round Table conference in 2002, attended by such figures as James Wolfensohn, former president of the World Bank, Nicky Oppenheimer, Warren Buffett and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
In 2003 Rothschild came under scrutiny when Russian oil industrialist Mikhail Khodorkovsky's shares in YUKOS passed to him under a deal they concluded prior to Khodorkovsky's arrest.
source : Wikipedia
Some historical Rothschild mansions :
(http://www.pebblebed.co.uk/admin/images/waddesdon%20manor.jpg)
Waddesdon Manor - built between 1874 and 1889 for Baron Ferdinand de Rothschild. Today Waddesdon is owned by the National Trust, but in recent years, following an extensive restoration, it has been, and continues to be administered by a Rothschild family trust that is overseen by Jacob Rothschild. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waddesdon_Manor .
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Ascott_House_south.gif)
Ascott House - In 1873 Ascott, together with 90 acres of land, was bought by Baron Mayer de Rothschild whose seat was at Mentmore, three miles away. The following year Leopold de Rothschild took over Ascott as a hunting box. During the following years the house was transformed and enlarged to form a family home. In 1949 the Ascott Collection, together with the House, its grounds of 261 acres and an endowment were given to the National Trust by Anthony de Rothschild. Nevertheless, the Rothschild family retain a very close control over Ascott, and the present resident of the house is the son of the donor, Sir Evelyn de Rothschild. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascott_House .
(http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/gallery/450/nmr/nmr_18930_03.jpg)
Halton House - Halton House is a country house situated in the Chiltern Hills above the village of Halton in Buckinghamshire, England. It was built for Alfred de Rothschild between 1880 and 1883. It is currently used as the main officers' mess for RAF Halton. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halton_House .
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Mentmore_towers_from_below.jpg)
Mentmore Towers - The house was built between 1852 and 1854 for Baron Mayer de Rothschild, who needed a house close to London. Later other Rothschild family homes were built at Tring in Hertfordshire, Ascott, Aston Clinton, Waddesdon and Halton. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentmore_Towers
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Chateau_de_Ferrieres.jpg)
Château de Ferrières - Château de Ferrières is a French château built between 1855 and 1859 by Baron James de Rothschild. Rothschild ownership of the Château de Ferrières was passed down through the male line according to the rule of primogeniture. Considered the most important 19th century château in France, it is located on Rue Rucherie in Ferrières-en-Brie in the Seine et Marne département of France about 26 km east of Paris. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Ferri%C3%A8res
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They didn't gas autists.
They gassed a lot of people who were different in various ways. Others they merely sterilized.
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That's as much detail as I'm willing to give on a forum filled with narrowminded idiots.
He's a helpdesk twat, folks.
I guess I have to repeat myself.
I work for a company that is hired by other companies to extend, modify or implement their production environment... or to just manage it. We are hired when internal employees don't suffice and my job varies from debugging existing code and implementing new code to designing print forms, data models and data extraction methods. Every project is different and it's anything BUT the job of a "helpdesk wanker".
Another obvious prejudiced statement.
Certainly not. You've been proving it ever since you arrived here.
Disagreement with you is not a sign of stupidity. Based on our exchange thusfar, I would in fact suggest the oposite.
You are a prejudiced bigot, so what exactly did you expect?
I'm not prejudiced. Disagreement with the status quo does not imply prejucide. In fact, the contrary is often true.
You do know that Adolf would have gassed you, don't you?
I already told you that no one was being gassed in the Third Reich... not Jews nor anyone else.
So you claim, but there is vast evidence of the opposite. Your particular brand of bigotry prevents you from recognising any of those sources.
Fuckwit.
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They didn't gas autists.
They gassed a lot of people who were different in various ways. Others they merely sterilized.
Swedish authorities sterilised and lobotomized people before Hitler was even known to the world and proceeded to do so for more than 30 years after his death. So much for humanism in a "democracy".
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They didn't gas autists.
They gassed a lot of people who were different in various ways. Others they merely sterilized.
Swedish authorities sterilised and lobotomized people before Hitler was even known to the world and proceeded to do so for more than 30 years after his death. So much for humanism in a "democracy".
Notice how he's cornered and feels he has to counter with an attack on past Swedish crimes, folks.
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So you claim, but there is vast evidence of the opposite.
We've already been through this. Thusfar you haven't provided the slightest evidence against my arguments, so I see no point in repeating myself.
Your particular brand of bigotry prevents you from recognising any of those sources.
Logics prevents me from accepting the propaganda you believe are facts. You are the bigot, not I.
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Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
Its comparing different kinds of shit, they both stink and are generally terrible for anyone else that happens to have the misfortune of being affected by them.
Okay I understand that.
But in this World You have had the halves and the halve knots.
This World is not a Perfect World.
I am not trying to excuse them (the halves) but even sometimes the halve knots have bad things too.
How would You change it in the end?
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So you claim, but there is vast evidence of the opposite.
We've already been through this. Thusfar you haven't provided the slightest evidence against my arguments, so I see no point in repeating myself.
Your particular brand of bigotry prevents you from recognising any of those sources.
Logics prevents me from accepting the propaganda you believe are facts. You are the bigot, not I.
You've parroted the opinions other other bigots, talked about academics, etc, and still couldn't come up with anything already picked apart by Nizkor and others.
Fuckwit.
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They didn't gas autists.
They gassed a lot of people who were different in various ways. Others they merely sterilized.
Swedish authorities sterilised and lobotomized people before Hitler was even known to the world and proceeded to do so for more than 30 years after his death. So much for humanism in a "democracy".
Notice how he's cornered and feels he has to counter with an attack on past Swedish crimes, folks.
Well, isn't it true? After Nazi Germany Sweden was the country in Europe that sterilized and lobotomized most people during the last century.
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You've parroted the opinions other other bigots, talked about academics, etc, and still couldn't come up with anything already picked apart by Nizkor and others.
Your primary source (Nizkor) is a source that still upholds the fallacy that Jewish fat was used to make soap and that thereby contradicts even the vast majority of orthodox Holocaust scholars... Besides that, you've ignored almost all of my arguments. Yet you call me a parroting bigot?!?.... ROFL
Regarding the condition of Asperger's in the Third Reich, I can say the following.
Asperger published the first definition of Asperger syndrome in 1944. In four boys, he identified a pattern of behavior and abilities that he called "autistic psychopathy", meaning autism (self) and psychopathy (personality disease). The pattern included "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements." Asperger called children with AS "little professors" because of their ability to talk about their favorite subject in great detail.
Asperger was convinced that many of the children he identified as having autistic symptoms would use their special talents in adulthood. He followed one child, Fritz V., into adulthood. Fritz V. became a professor of astronomy and solved an error in Newton’s work he originally noticed as a child. Hans Asperger’s positive outlook contrasts strikingly with Leo Kanner's description of autism, of which Asperger's is often considered to be a high-functioning form. In his 1944 paper, Asperger wrote:
We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.
Near the end of World War II, Asperger opened a school for children with autistic psychopathy, with Sister Victorine. The school was bombed towards the end of the war, Sister Victorine was killed, the school was destroyed and much of Hans Asperger's early work was lost. It was this event that arguably delayed the understanding of autism spectrum conditions in the west.
Is that what you call an extermination policy?
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Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
Its comparing different kinds of shit, they both stink and are generally terrible for anyone else that happens to have the misfortune of being affected by them.
Okay I understand that.
But in this World You have had the halves and the halve knots.
This World is not a Perfect World.
I am not trying to excuse them (the halves) but even sometimes the halve knots have bad things too.
How would You change it in the end?
You mean the have nots? I would kill them all and let God sort out the mess. Then they can get categorized into their neat afterlifes of bad or good people (Hell or Heaven). They do nothing but harm to this world.
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Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
Its comparing different kinds of shit, they both stink and are generally terrible for anyone else that happens to have the misfortune of being affected by them.
Okay I understand that.
But in this World You have had the halves and the halve knots.
This World is not a Perfect World.
I am not trying to excuse them (the halves) but even sometimes the halve knots have bad things too.
How would You change it in the end?
You mean the have nots? I would kill them all and let God sort out the mess. Then they can get categorized into their neat afterlifes of bad or good people (Hell or Heaven). They do nothing but harm to this world.
But would that just make You like Hitler and such like ones.
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Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
Its comparing different kinds of shit, they both stink and are generally terrible for anyone else that happens to have the misfortune of being affected by them.
Okay I understand that.
But in this World You have had the halves and the halve knots.
This World is not a Perfect World.
I am not trying to excuse them (the halves) but even sometimes the halve knots have bad things too.
How would You change it in the end?
You mean the have nots? I would kill them all and let God sort out the mess. Then they can get categorized into their neat afterlifes of bad or good people (Hell or Heaven). They do nothing but harm to this world.
But would that just make You like Hitler and such like ones.
I am for killing them all, not discriminating between haves and have nots. Hitler wanted to kill Jews, gays etc. I would want to kill human beings, period. Wipe the entire species off of the planet.
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Blaming other for whatever reason such as what religion and being rich to Me is a bit much.
There are a lot of billionaires today that have changed the World today.
Do We blame them sometimes, sometimes not.
Sometimes they do good and sometimes bad.
This is My Pearls of Wisdom: Humans are Humans.
They are all shit. Deserving of a long and painful death. Rothschilds basically invented compound interest, great way for the rich to get richer, while the poor get further in debt to the rich. Fantastic idea that ensured their dominance over the clueless masses.
If it would not have been them it would have been someone else that would have invent it.
Hence why they are all shit. Doesn't make the Rothschilds any better than say Hitler imo.
Why the comparison?
Its comparing different kinds of shit, they both stink and are generally terrible for anyone else that happens to have the misfortune of being affected by them.
Okay I understand that.
But in this World You have had the halves and the halve knots.
This World is not a Perfect World.
I am not trying to excuse them (the halves) but even sometimes the halve knots have bad things too.
How would You change it in the end?
You mean the have nots? I would kill them all and let God sort out the mess. Then they can get categorized into their neat afterlifes of bad or good people (Hell or Heaven). They do nothing but harm to this world.
But would that just make You like Hitler and such like ones.
I am for killing them all, not discriminating between haves and have nots. Hitler wanted to kill Jews, gays etc. I would want to kill human beings, period. Wipe the entire species off of the planet.
Okay then what would You do then?
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Hitler wanted to kill Jews, gays etc.
No, he didn't.
Anyway, could you guys please limited the quoted parts? There's no point in quoting quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes and it clutters the screen ;)
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Regarding gas chambers and their use to kill captive Jews etc...
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1946hoess.html
Was Hoess lying when he said...
l commanded Auschwitz until 1 December,1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents about 70% or 80% of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries. Included among the executed and burnt were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of Prisoner of War cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens (mostly Jewish) from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944.
Mass executions by gassing commenced during the summer 1941 and continued until fall 1944.1 personally supervised executions at Auschwitz until the first of December 1943 and know by reason of my continued duties in the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps WVHA2 that these mass executions continued as stated above. All mass executions by gassing took place under the direct order, supervision and responsibility of RSHA.31 received all orders for carrying out these mass executions directly from RSHA.
The "final solution" of the Jewish question meant the complete extermination of all Jews in Europe. l was ordered to establish extermination facilities at Auschwitz in June 1941. At that time there were already in the general govemment three other extermination camps; BELZEK, TREBLINKA and WOLZEK.
Another improvement we made over Treblinka was that we built our gas chambers to accommodate 2,000 people at one time, whereas at Treblinka their 10 gas chambers only accommodated 200 people each... ...Children of tender years were invariably exterminated since by reason of their youth they were unable to work. Still another improvement we made over Treblinka was that at Treblinka the victims almost always knew that they were to be exterminated and at Auschwitz we endeavored to fool the victims into thinking that they were to go through a delousing process.
I could continue, but I guess there are ways Rudolf Hoess' testimony can be discounted by Revisionists. Perhaps it might be argued he admitted this all under duress... if so, I'd like to see the evidence against this testimony.
Have you ever read Hoess' autobiography. I haven't, but I understand it is very revealing :)
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Höss was beaten bloodily by the Allies that captured him. Just a small paranthesis.
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Was Hoess lying when he said...
l commanded Auschwitz until 1 December,1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. [...]
I could continue, but I guess there are ways Rudolf Hoess' testimony can be discounted by Revisionists. Perhaps it might be argued he admitted this all under duress... if so, I'd like to see the evidence against this testimony.
Currently, the official death count of Auschwitz has been reduced to somewhere between 1,000,000 and 1,500,000 in to official Holocaust stastics. Therefore, even the current stastistics contradict Höss's "testimony".
Faurisson shows that Höss's absurd exaggerations are the result of torture --> http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/4/Faurisson389-403.html
For more info on other revisionist arguments, please visit this page --> http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html
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Faurisson shows that Höss's absurd exaggerations are the result of torture --> http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/4/Faurisson389-403.html
OK.
How about http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/hoess-memoirs/
Part quoted below...
For obvious reasons, Holocaust deniers have been excoriating these memoirs for years, arguing that they are not worth the paper they are written on. The typical argument is that Höss was tortured into falsely confessing to crimes he did not commit. Höss wrote these memoirs while in Polish captivity. However, we know that he was tortured by his British captors before being turned over to the Poles. What deniers never reveal is that we know this because Höss stated this in his memoirs. If there was an attempt by his Polish captors to falsify these memoirs or to have Höss lie, this information would have never appeared. Höss explains (179):
During the first interrogation they beat me to obtain evidence. I do not know what was in the transcript, or what I said, even though I signed it, because they gave me liquor and beat me with a whip. It was too much even for me to bear.
It appears that his harsh treatment was caused by Jewish sergeants in the arresting party whose parents had died at Auschwitz. One Jewish sergeant claimed that Höss admitted without a trace of remorse that he had been responsible for around two million deaths. Yet, this same sergeant spoke about Höss's letters to his wife. "Sometimes a lump came to my throat. There were two different men in that one man. One was brutal with no regard for human life. The other was soft and affectionate." 11
Höss was turned over to the International Military Tribunal to testify because the defense attorney for accused war criminal Ernst Kaltenbrunner, the former head of Reich Main Security, wanted him as a witness. Höss writes (180) that compared to where he had been before, "imprisonment with the IMT was like staying in a health spa." He was then handed over to the Poles to stand trial in Cracow, Poland. He describes (181) his first weeks in prison as "quite tolerable." However, the attitudes of the guards changed for the worse. Both he and Polish prisoners were mistreated. The prosecutor's office intervened and things changed. "I have to openly confess that I never would have expected to be treated so decently and so kindly in a Polish prison as I have been since the intervention of the prosecutor's office." Höss's surprise stemmed, no doubt, from the fact that about 300,000 Poles, most of them Jews, perished at Auschwitz.
The reliability of these memoirs can be tested by comparing them to independent corroborating evidence. All of the essential eyewitness testimony corroborates Höss's memoirs on Auschwitz. Pery Broad, an SS man stationed at Auschwitz while Höss was the commandant, wrote of the gas chambers and crematoria in his memoirs. 12 Similarly, they are confirmed by the diary kept by SS physician at Auschwitz Johann Kremer. 13 The post war testimony by victims and perpetrators at the Belsen trial in 1947 of many guards who served at Auschwitz is further corroborating evidence.
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They didn't gas autists.
how do you know? the term "autism" in its modern usage (in english, or equivalents thereof) wasn't coined until 1943.
::)
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They didn't gas autists.
how do you know? the term "autism" in its modern usage (in english, or equivalents thereof) wasn't coined until 1943.
::)
They didn't kill any of Hans Asperger's patients, at least.
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vau! you can reverse really well.
:laugh:
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How about http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/hoess-memoirs/
Part quoted below...
David Hoggan's The Myth of the Six Million already addressed the Höss memoirs as early as 1969 --> http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/tmotsm/14.html
An extract :
The concept of the death camp as a means of liquidating Jews returns us to Auschwitz. Poliakov's Harvest of Hate placed great stress on Polish lanquage memoirs, Wspomnienia, by Rudolf Hoess, which were later published in English as Commandant of Auschwitz (Cleveland, 1960). Hoess was the commander of what is supposed to have been the greatest death camp in world history.
The fact that these memoirs were published under Communist auspices makes it utterly impossible to, accept their authenticity without decisive reservations. Furthermore, the statements made by Hoess both to British security officers at Flensburg under third-degree conditions and under torture at Nuremberg makes it very difficult to believe that anything attributed to Hoess after his capture in 1946 bears much relation to actual facts. Even Gerald Reitlinger, who grasps at every straw to document the extermination program, rejects the Nuremberg trial testimony of Hoess as hopelessly untrustworthy.
The purpose in examining the Hoess material here is to decide to what extent, if any, a plausible narrative has been presented under Communist auspices. The atrocity photographs in the English-language edition are "supposed" to have been taken, by an "unknown SS man" who received "special permission." They were allegedly found by a Jewish woman in the Sudetenland and sold to the Jewish museum in Prague. There is nothing whatever about these photographs to render plausible their authenticity. They are undoubtedly akin to the pictures of the piles of corpses alleged to have been civilians slain by the Germans during their eastern campaigns during the First World War but were later proved to be Jews and others killed in pogroms carried out by the Russians under the Tsar, years before 1914.
The introduction to the American edition of Hoess's memoirs was written by the Germanophobe Lord (Edward F.) Russell of Liverpool. He is the author of The Scourge of the Swastika (N.Y., 1954) which contains a brief survey of the atrocity evidence presented at Nuremberg. The survey ends with obsolete claims about Dachau as a death camp. These claims about Dachau had been repudiated and disproved years before, by Cardinal Faulliaber of Munich.
[...]
They didn't gas autists.
how do you know?
Since none were gassed, it's pretty obvious. ;)
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how do you know?
Since none were gassed, it's pretty obvious. ;)
bollocks, since may autistic people can pass as "normal".
more claptrap.
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You've parroted the opinions other other bigots, talked about academics, etc, and still couldn't come up with anything already picked apart by Nizkor and others.
Your primary source (Nizkor) is a source that still upholds the fallacy that Jewish fat was used to make soap and that thereby contradicts even the vast majority of orthodox Holocaust scholars... Besides that, you've ignored almost all of my arguments. Yet you call me a parroting bigot?!?.... ROFL
You're the one with something to prove and all you can do is to quote others. Knowing fully well that others have debunked your bullshit, I see no reason to paraphrase any of it. And speaking of which, I'm honest about it while you are not. See below.
Nizkor is but one source, btw. You probably know of them, even though you choose to shut your eyes and ears whenever proven wrong. Heil moron.
Regarding the condition of Asperger's in the Third Reich, I can say the following.
Asperger published the first definition of Asperger syndrome in 1944. In four boys, he identified a pattern of behavior and abilities that he called "autistic psychopathy", meaning autism (self) and psychopathy (personality disease). The pattern included "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements." Asperger called children with AS "little professors" because of their ability to talk about their favorite subject in great detail.
Asperger was convinced that many of the children he identified as having autistic symptoms would use their special talents in adulthood. He followed one child, Fritz V., into adulthood. Fritz V. became a professor of astronomy and solved an error in Newton’s work he originally noticed as a child. Hans Asperger’s positive outlook contrasts strikingly with Leo Kanner's description of autism, of which Asperger's is often considered to be a high-functioning form. In his 1944 paper, Asperger wrote:
We are convinced, then, that autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfil their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.
Near the end of World War II, Asperger opened a school for children with autistic psychopathy, with Sister Victorine. The school was bombed towards the end of the war, Sister Victorine was killed, the school was destroyed and much of Hans Asperger's early work was lost. It was this event that arguably delayed the understanding of autism spectrum conditions in the west.
Is that what you call an extermination policy?
You copied that part from a website, almost verbatim. I had a look earlier, you know, and that last part caught my eye.
I can see that you continue honouring the academic ethics of Dr Konrad et al.
And Hans Asperger was never one of the exterminators, and I never claimed he was. You should read some of the interviews given by his daughter.
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Hitler wanted to kill Jews, gays etc.
No, he didn't.
Anyway, could you guys please limited the quoted parts? There's no point in quoting quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes and it clutters the screen ;)
Look who's talking. :hahaha:
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If the Holocaust happened, which I certainly believe it did, then it is rather revolting to try and say it didn't happen.
Would you, then, also say it is revolting to try and say it happened if it didn't happen?
IMO only logics are relevant and emotions are a burden when analysing historical events. They are both pointless and dangerous, because they invite irrationallity.
I am open to examine some of the evidence though when I have the time... and it may lead me into further exploration, but that is my position at present. :)
I can respect that :D
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Höss was beaten bloodily by the Allies that captured him. Just a small paranthesis.
He mentioned this in his memoirs himself, you know. But I suppose they left that one in.
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Hitler wanted to kill Jews, gays etc.
No, he didn't.
Anyway, could you guys please limited the quoted parts? There's no point in quoting quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes of quotes and it clutters the screen ;)
He sure had a weird way of showing it in Mein Kampf, in regards to the Jews. Gays had to wear a pink triangle IIRC, and were put in the oven as well (if they weren't useful in the work camps).
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Nizkor is but one source, btw.
Sure... but it's also one of the poorest.
You probably know of them, even though you choose to shut your eyes and ears whenever proven wrong.
I haven't been proven wrong by a long shot.
You copied that part from a website, almost verbatim.
Actually, I pulled pretty much the whole text from Wikipedia.
I can see that you continue honouring the academic ethics of Dr Konrad et al.
I never implied it did not come from Wikipedia and I mentioned it explicitly in another post where I cited that text. Why must you keep using stupid strawman arguments?
And Hans Asperger was never one of the exterminators, and I never claimed he was.
You implied that people like us would have been "gassed". What is that nonsense based on?
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He sure had a weird way of showing it in Mein Kampf, in regards to the Jews.
He strongly disliked Jews, but that doesn't mean he wanted to exterminate them. Do you want to kill everyone you don't like?
Gays had to wear a pink triangle IIRC, and were put in the oven as well
Only the pink triangle is a fact ;)
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You implied that people like us would have been "gassed". What is that nonsense based on?
the fact that there's probably people queuing round the block to have a go at gassing you, my cherub. :-*
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He sure had a weird way of showing it in Mein Kampf, in regards to the Jews.
He strongly disliked Jews, but that doesn't mean he wanted to exterminate them. Do you want to kill everyone you don't like?
Gays had to wear a pink triangle IIRC, and were put in the oven as well
Only the pink triangle is a fact ;)
Not just everyone I don't like, but everyone, period (including me) eventually. That is when I am in my highest state of misanthropy. Let the reign of the synthetics begin. We should just have a robot army in the "Holy Land" that has protocol to kill anyone regardless of race, creed, religion, etc. that enters the area. That would be fun stuff, for both sides of the Ishmael vs Isaac debate. Eventually the robotic army would extend over the globe, fully exterminating humanity.
I know Hitler only wanted to keep alive the Jews that were useful to him probably. If they could have made him the nuclear bomb first, then he would have been kinder to Jewish scientists. Putting people in work camps is hardly good treatment, same goes for killing them en masse.
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But why play god?
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Nizkor is but one source, btw.
Sure... but it's also one of the poorest.
Well-researched enough to put you and your nazi pals to shame.
You probably know of them, even though you choose to shut your eyes and ears whenever proven wrong.
I haven't been proven wrong by a long shot.
Lots of people have, here and elsewhere. You choose to ignore it. An admirable trait in some ways, and necessary, considering the bullshit you advocate.
You copied that part from a website, almost verbatim.
Actually, I pulled pretty much the whole text from Wikipedia.
Without attributing any of it. Would you have told us if I hadn't pointed it out?
Dr Konrad. :hahaha:
I can see that you continue honouring the academic ethics of Dr Konrad et al.
I never implied it did not come from Wikipedia and I mentioned it explicitly in another post where I cited that text. Why must you keep using stupid strawman arguments?
Because they show what kind of people you Holocaust-deniers actually are, that your whole academic pretense is just trying to hide the swastikas behind lies. You seek credibility where there can be none by denying that a genocide took place. You and your ilk are truly repulsive human beings.
And Hans Asperger was never one of the exterminators, and I never claimed he was.
You implied that people like us would have been "gassed". What is that nonsense based on?
Surely even you cannot have missed the ideas Adolf & Co had on, er, purifying the master race?
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
I'm with you on that one. :thumbup:
"Denn alles, was entsteht, ist wert, daß es zugrunde geht".
Goethe 8)
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
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I asked the other guy and he said no. :P
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Which other guy was that. :P
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
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Which other guy was that. :P
Could have been a she. Hot, in any case. Literally. :LMAO:
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
lovely marble thingy (is it a marble?) in your avatar, kevv. really beautiful.
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Which other guy was that. :P
Could have been a she. Hot, in any case. Literally. :LMAO:
:angel:
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
lovely marble thingy (is it a marble?) in your avatar, kevv. really beautiful.
Yes it is.
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
Similar to going to sleep, but with no dreaming. Nothing happens, you just cease to be conscious and of course slip into nothingness. You won't have any more thoughts, dreams, hopes, etc. Basically eternal slumber, which was a part of my original title. Eternal slumber = death.
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
Similar to going to sleep, but with no dreaming. Nothing happens, you just cease to be conscious and of course slip into nothingness. You won't have any more thoughts, dreams, hopes, etc. Basically eternal slumber, which was a part of my original title. Eternal slumber = death.
You know this is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in.
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
Similar to going to sleep, but with no dreaming. Nothing happens, you just cease to be conscious and of course slip into nothingness. You won't have any more thoughts, dreams, hopes, etc. Basically eternal slumber, which was a part of my original title. Eternal slumber = death.
You know this is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in.
No, not really. I try to not talk to them. They do believe in God and believe about following rules in order to positioning in the afterlife (. They think the souls of the wicked will be annihilated actually (cease to exist). They do believe in the existence of an eternal soul, just that there is no hell. Instead the bad people are punished by having their souls destroyed. Everyone is basically asleep up until Armageddon, then at judgement God destroys the souls of the wicked and the rest gain entrance into his kingdom (heaven).
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
Similar to going to sleep, but with no dreaming. Nothing happens, you just cease to be conscious and of course slip into nothingness. You won't have any more thoughts, dreams, hopes, etc. Basically eternal slumber, which was a part of my original title. Eternal slumber = death.
You know this is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in.
No, not really. I try to not talk to them. They do believe in God and believe about following rules in order to positioning in the afterlife (. They think the souls of the wicked will be annihilated actually (cease to exist). They do believe in the existence of an eternal soul, just that there is no hell. Instead the bad people are punished by having their souls destroyed. Everyone is basically asleep up until Armageddon, then at judgement God destroys the souls of the wicked and the rest gain entrance into his kingdom (heaven).
That is just for the 144,000 only.
The majority of Mankind is right now is how You see.
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
Similar to going to sleep, but with no dreaming. Nothing happens, you just cease to be conscious and of course slip into nothingness. You won't have any more thoughts, dreams, hopes, etc. Basically eternal slumber, which was a part of my original title. Eternal slumber = death.
You know this is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in.
No, not really. I try to not talk to them. They do believe in God and believe about following rules in order to positioning in the afterlife (. They think the souls of the wicked will be annihilated actually (cease to exist). They do believe in the existence of an eternal soul, just that there is no hell. Instead the bad people are punished by having their souls destroyed. Everyone is basically asleep up until Armageddon, then at judgement God destroys the souls of the wicked and the rest gain entrance into his kingdom (heaven).
That is just for the 144,000 only.
The majority of Mankind is right now is how You see.
The 144,000 go to heaven and rule with God. The remainder of the righteous will enjoy paradise on earth - a restored Garden of Eden in which there is no sickness, old age, death or unhappiness (which is basically heaven on earth) (taken from: http://www.religionfacts.com/jehovahs_witnesses/beliefs.htm) The wicked get their souls destroyed as I said before.
There is no heaven, and the 144,000 is a joke lol.
If I were to choose a number of people in the world befitting of heaven, it would be a MUCH lower number than that (maybe 2 or 3 maximum out of 5 billion plus people). I have never met a real Christian, just people who claim to follow Jesus or Jehovah. They believe parts and pieces of the Bible, but ignore parts that are inconvenient to their lifestyle when it comes to sins. I have not met one person who is not like that, despite their wearing T shirts saying "I believe the whole Bible, every word" and all sorts of other bullshit.
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If I were to choose a number of people in the world befitting of heaven, it would be a MUCH lower number than that (maybe 2 or 3 maximum out of 5 billion plus people). I have never met a real Christian, just people who claim to follow Jesus or Jehovah. They believe parts and pieces of the Bible, but ignore parts that are inconvenient to their lifestyle when it comes to sins. I have not met one person who is not like that, despite their wearing T shirts saying "I believe the whole Bible, every word" and all sorts of other bullshit.
I've actually tried to live like a "real Christian" when I was a teenager; I didn't even jerk off for weeks, but it was impossible at last.
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If I were to choose a number of people in the world befitting of heaven, it would be a MUCH lower number than that (maybe 2 or 3 maximum out of 5 billion plus people). I have never met a real Christian, just people who claim to follow Jesus or Jehovah. They believe parts and pieces of the Bible, but ignore parts that are inconvenient to their lifestyle when it comes to sins. I have not met one person who is not like that, despite their wearing T shirts saying "I believe the whole Bible, every word" and all sorts of other bullshit.
I've actually tried to live like a "real Christian" when I was a teenager; I didn't even jerk off for weeks, but it was impossible at last.
You commit adultery in your mind, says Jesus. So you even think about fucking a chick too much, and you might as well have already done it. Same goes with murder.
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But why play god?
Because there is no god, and someone has to play the role of the ultimate bad guy. Humanity will meet its end eventually, I just want to hasten the process, so I can see it happen during my lifetime.
How do You not know there is no god?
I know because there is no soul, and creationism is fucking retarded in many ways (the very laws of physics which bind our world say so - gravity and thermodynamics for two).
Where is your soul? If you say the heart, then you would be wrong, as people have their hearts replaced (see Jarvik artificial heart and heart transplants) and never lose their "soul". They are still the same person. God/ and or gods and the human soul are the invention of the human mind and its inability to fathom the end of its own existence. You will just cease to be conscious, you are no special snowflake.
We will see You never know.
What happens do You think after Somebody dies?
Similar to going to sleep, but with no dreaming. Nothing happens, you just cease to be conscious and of course slip into nothingness. You won't have any more thoughts, dreams, hopes, etc. Basically eternal slumber, which was a part of my original title. Eternal slumber = death.
You know this is what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe in.
No, not really. I try to not talk to them. They do believe in God and believe about following rules in order to positioning in the afterlife (. They think the souls of the wicked will be annihilated actually (cease to exist). They do believe in the existence of an eternal soul, just that there is no hell. Instead the bad people are punished by having their souls destroyed. Everyone is basically asleep up until Armageddon, then at judgement God destroys the souls of the wicked and the rest gain entrance into his kingdom (heaven).
That is just for the 144,000 only.
The majority of Mankind is right now is how You see.
As I said right the people are as a sleep.
Those that are dead is what I was getting nothing else than that.
As the body dies the soul dies too.
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They do believe in a soul and a god. That is the reason why 144,000 can go to heaven, let alone 2 or 3. I don't believe in an afterlife for anyone, regardless of how you live your life. That is all a grand lie told in order to control people, the masses in particular, and keep them under the heel of the elite.
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They do believe in a soul and a god. That is the reason why 144,000 can go to heaven, let alone 2 or 3. I don't believe in an afterlife for anyone, regardless of how you live your life. That is all a grand lie told in order to control people, the masses in particular, and keep them under the heel of the elite.
Agree. Alas. :(
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care. I am sick of wasting my time with these wankers, trying to talk sense into a bunch of dickless wonders whose opinions and attitudes are sickening in the least. Supporting Nazis is the sickest form of behaviour yet, and supporting psychotic loser trolls comes close to second. Until some rationality can come back (which is doubtful), I am going to give these imbeciles a wide berth.
This place with these pariahs in it is becoming a festering fetid swamp, more's the fucking pity. I'm outta here.
I may check from time to time, but if the bullshit continues in its childish form, then that's proof that mindless imbeciles should have been aborted with their bullshit beliefs.
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They do believe in a soul and a god. That is the reason why 144,000 can go to heaven, let alone 2 or 3. I don't believe in an afterlife for anyone, regardless of how you live your life. That is all a grand lie told in order to control people, the masses in particular, and keep them under the heel of the elite.
Man is a soul but even in death the soul of Man dies also read Genesis 9:5.
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care. I am sick of wasting my time with these wankers, trying to talk sense into a bunch of dickless wonders whose opinions and attitudes are sickening in the least. Supporting Nazis is the sickest form of behaviour yet, and supporting psychotic loser trolls comes close to second. Until some rationality can come back (which is doubtful), I am going to give these imbeciles a wide berth.
This place with these pariahs in it is becoming a festering fetid swamp, more's the fucking pity. I'm outta here.
I may check from time to time, but if the bullshit continues in its childish form, then that's proof that mindless imbeciles should have been aborted with their bullshit beliefs.
Thank you. Don't let the door hit you in the arse, punk.
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care. I am sick of wasting my time with these wankers, trying to talk sense into a bunch of dickless wonders whose opinions and attitudes are sickening in the least. Supporting Nazis is the sickest form of behaviour yet, and supporting psychotic loser trolls comes close to second. Until some rationality can come back (which is doubtful), I am going to give these imbeciles a wide berth.
This place with these pariahs in it is becoming a festering fetid swamp, more's the fucking pity. I'm outta here.
I may check from time to time, but if the bullshit continues in its childish form, then that's proof that mindless imbeciles should have been aborted with their bullshit beliefs.
That is why there is a ignore button.
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They do believe in a soul and a god. That is the reason why 144,000 can go to heaven, let alone 2 or 3. I don't believe in an afterlife for anyone, regardless of how you live your life. That is all a grand lie told in order to control people, the masses in particular, and keep them under the heel of the elite.
Man is a soul but even in death the soul of Man dies also read Genesis 9:5.
I have read the Bible many times, forced to as a child lol. I don't believe it is true, at all. There are Jewish people that do not believe in an afterlife other than when the Mosach comes and all Jewish people (living and dead) rise up and form an army. Then the whole world will be ruled by the laws of Jehovah, and Israel will be the seat of all governments. That is what some (most Jews who read Isiah properly) believe. That is also why they reject Jesus as the Mosach, he didn't take Israel to prominence and world dominance. That is what the second coming is supposedly for, ruling the world with the laws of the Jewish people. Total bullshit either way, best believed by sheep.
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One more then I leave it alone about soul and death Isaiah 53:12 because he hath poured out his soul unto death.
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I'm outta here.
Bye bye :clap:
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I'm outta here.
Auf Wiederseh'n. Nicht. :tongue:
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care.
Parts, odeon, Lucifer and Sir Les all excell at avoiding all sense of logics, ignoring the other side's arguments and using insults instead, preferrably in a very immature fashion. Considering you've beaten them all at this, it's not surprising you consider them the most rational.
Someone who doesn't even accept the common sense and generally proven fact that intelligence is at least partially genetic is hardly the right person to lecture others about rationallity :D
How the hell did this thread turn into a religious thread?
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care.
Parts, odeon, Lucifer and Sir Les all excell at avoiding all sense of logics, ignoring the other side's arguments and using insults instead, preferrably in a very immature fashion. Considering you've beaten them all at this, it's not surprising you consider them the most rational.
Someone who doesn't even accept the common sense and generally proven fact that intelligence is at least partially genetic is hardly the right person to lecture others about rationallity :D
How the hell did this thread turn into a religious thread?
Meanies going off-topic for you, Nazi boy? Want a hug?
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care. I am sick of wasting my time with these wankers, trying to talk sense into a bunch of dickless wonders whose opinions and attitudes are sickening in the least. Supporting Nazis is the sickest form of behaviour yet, and supporting psychotic loser trolls comes close to second. Until some rationality can come back (which is doubtful), I am going to give these imbeciles a wide berth.
This place with these pariahs in it is becoming a festering fetid swamp, more's the fucking pity. I'm outta here.
I may check from time to time, but if the bullshit continues in its childish form, then that's proof that mindless imbeciles should have been aborted with their bullshit beliefs.
Hey wait! You forgot to tell me if I was rational or a fucktard! Well, maybe I'm a rational fucktard. :P
Or as someone wrote in my yearbook: "You are dummy but you are smart." :asthing:
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I've done some re-evaluating, and have come to the conclusiont that the only TRUE fucktards here are TheoK, Delusionist and the other dickhead who is on ignore. Being intensity, others are verging on it, while others are not. Nocti's only redeeming feature is that even HE considers Delusionist to be a 'tard, even though he is pretty much one himself. There are quite a few who fit the intelligent criteria, and Sir Les definitely fits this. Given you aren't of Delusionists' mould, wandrew, that would make you one of the others.
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I've done some re-evaluating, and have come to the conclusiont that the only TRUE fucktards here are TheoK, Delusionist and the other dickhead who is on ignore. Being intensity, others are verging on it, while others are not. Nocti's only redeeming feature is that even HE considers Delusionist to be a 'tard, even though he is pretty much one himself. There are quite a few who fit the intelligent criteria, and Sir Les definitely fits this. Given you aren't of Delusionists' mould, wandrew, that would make you one of the others.
Which, I guess, makes me rational. Shit. There goes my plan to spend the rest of my life avoiding responsibility. I guess I'll have to try this thing humans call "work." Sounds nasty.
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This site can go fuck itself for all I care. There are only a handful of people who I would considier rational, and all the rest are bigotted whiny fucktards who are incoherent at the best of times. I have nothing against the rational ones like parts, odeon, Lucifer, Sir Les, Callaway, amongst others, but the retarded gits like Kosmo, DirtDawg, Illusionist, TheoK and their ilk can go stick their opinions up their collective arses, for all I care.
Parts, odeon, Lucifer and Sir Les all excell at avoiding all sense of logics, ignoring the other side's arguments and using insults instead, preferrably in a very immature fashion. Considering you've beaten them all at this, it's not surprising you consider them the most rational.
Someone who doesn't even accept the common sense and generally proven fact that intelligence is at least partially genetic is hardly the right person to lecture others about rationallity :D
How the hell did this thread turn into a religious thread?
You do realise that injecting a smile into your whine does not disguise the fact that it i a whine huh?
Sorry you wee saying something about me being a nasty man for laughing at you. Please continue. You re up to the part where you stamp your feet and tell me that Hitler was a sweetheart and how dare we not acknowledge the truth "Darn it!". :laugh: <<------ (Appropriately placed smiley)
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* yawn *
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Or as someone wrote in my yearbook: "You are dummy but you are smart." :asthing:
your reply should have been: "i am dummy, but i speakee the english."
:LMAO:
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And he should have spelt dummy like this: dummeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. But he isn't Delusionist, is he.....
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:laugh:
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I personally think that the Holocaust cannot be rationally denied. However, I would read those who call it a myth if I had a reason to research the matter. In my time I have read a lot of material I do not agree with.
Watch either video that I posted. It takes just a small amount of your time and gives you many reasons why the "6 million murdered Jews" story is a myth. I personally like the first video because it is made by a Jew and it asks questions rather than pushing a conclusion onto you, although it leaves only one possible conclusion....
...
So I did my research and came to the shocking conclusion that lost of what I had learnt about the so-called "Holocaust" was a fabrication.
Seems like Benji, Zegh and Rage have someone who agrees with them here. :orly:
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There's a good reason that a bounty was put on Cole's head. Truth fears no investigation.
The Nazi Holocaust isn't a yes or no question. There have been many distortions and lies by The Holocaust Industry.
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There's a good reason that a bounty was put on Cole's head.
Yes, David Stein/Cole was a well known crank in the Historian community.
Truth fears no investigation.
Simply not true. Truth hurts those whose authority rests on lies.
The Nazi Holocaust isn't a yes or no question.
Yes it is and yes it happened.
There have been many distortions and lies by The Holocaust Industry.
Far more lies told by the Holocaust deniers.
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There's a good reason that a bounty was put on Cole's head.
Yes, David Stein/Cole was a well known crank in the Historian community.
Truth fears no investigation.
Simply not true. Truth hurts those whose authority rests on lies.
The Nazi Holocaust isn't a yes or no question.
Yes it is and yes it happened.
There have been many distortions and lies by The Holocaust Industry.
Far more lies told by the Holocaust deniers.
David Cole exposed some unwanted truths about the mother ship of Holocaust Industry propaganda, Auschwitz. With WWII, if anyone questions or provides evidence that goes against the grain, they will be in court, attacked or killed. That's not real history. Israel's narrative of the Israel/Palestine conflict was revised, by Israeli historians, and it turned out Israel's version was full of lies and the truth pretty much the Palestinian narrative. Especially with regards to 1947-48. So let WWII be revised in an open and fair manner.
Right, so that's why people who look for the truth in cases like this are in severe trouble. If a historian said things weren't quite as we though with the Indonesian genocide, no one would care.
No it's not. Deborah Lipstadt wrote that even saying Germans suffered during WWII is a form of Holocaust denial. The Holocaust Industry lied about the numbers of survivors in order to blackmail Swiss banks. There have been outrageous stories about soap and lampshades. Speilberg made a documentary, having the stars lie about events. Which I can show you.
Ok, like what? I've heard them say that Hitler was a Rothschild or that he was just a cool guy etc.
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There's a good reason that a bounty was put on Cole's head. Truth fears no investigation.
The Nazi Holocaust isn't a yes or no question. There have been many distortions and lies by The Holocaust Industry.
Keep that tinfoil hat firmly in its place.
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There's a good reason that a bounty was put on Cole's head. Truth fears no investigation.
The Nazi Holocaust isn't a yes or no question. There have been many distortions and lies by The Holocaust Industry.
Keep that tinfoil hat firmly in its place.
What you mean is, you are unaware of it. Lol, you really are tragic.
Spielberg's Holocaust Hoaxeress - Irene Weisberg Zisblatt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvtLQviQRqo#ws)
I gather you're ignorant of the Swiss banks scandal as well? Where the Holocaust Industry blackmailed the Swiss banks for $1.25 billion, saying that needy Holocaust survivors needed the money as they were close to death, and lied about the numbers, then when they got the money, they said that Holocaust survivors could live for another 30 years (and as this was during the turn of the century), this would be around 90 years after the end of WWII. The Jewish organizations then made it near impossible for claimants to receive their compensation, and the money will end up going to those organizations instead.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VuRh9Oz_Cj4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Norman+G.+Finkelstein%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xNVLVOKbNYOu7AaL14CwAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=VuRh9Oz_Cj4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:%22Norman+G.+Finkelstein%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xNVLVOKbNYOu7AaL14CwAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Chapter 3- The Double Shakedown, you can read about it.
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I am aware of the book and remember the lawsuit. My opinion of you as a kook does not change depending of Finkelstein, though. Did you honestly think that it would? Seriously?
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I am aware of the book and remember the lawsuit. My opinion of you as a kook does not change depending of Finkelstein, though. Did you honestly think that it would? Seriously?
I don't care what you think about me, it's not about me. Though, I think you should man up and apologize. Read the book have you?
And not forgetting.... :zoinks:
Herman Rosenblat about his holocaust lies on ABC TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQWB36uKkw#)
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
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I am aware of the book and remember the lawsuit. My opinion of you as a kook does not change depending of Finkelstein, though. Did you honestly think that it would? Seriously?
I don't care what you think about me, it's not about me. Though, I think you should man up and apologize. Read the book have you?
That's the thing about kooks. Everything they do is about them. They can't help it.
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.
I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.
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Its hard to find legitimate information about this period in history anymore. I actually became pretty interested in it for a while because of all the holocaust deniers, and decided to look for myself.
I found that the holocaust actually did happen. :LOL:
Although, there is a crapload of propaganda surrounding that event, and the "six million" number appears to be completely made up and irrational. I still try and look for more info on this from time to time, as it is such a mysterious and hotly debated period and i'm interested in it. I wish both sides of the debate weren't doing their level best to "win" instead of conducting honest and forthcoming research and debates. :headhurts:
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.
I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.
What "conspiracy theories"? When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway. Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
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Thank you for proving that 1,000+ years of Jew hatred is still alive and well in Europe. :thumbup:
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Thank you for proving that 1,000+ years of Jew hatred is still alive and well in Europe. :thumbup:
Thanks for proving that ancient alien propaganda is working :thumbup:
I wouldn't drive through rush hour London traffic to see a Norman Finkelstein lecture if I hated Jews. So how do you explain people like Finkelstein, Chomsky or Cole? I guess they're just self hating Jews? ;)
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So how do you explain people like Finkelstein, Chomsky or Cole? I guess they're just self hating Jews? ;)
Self-loathing Jews are so common that they're a racial stereotype. ::)
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So how do you explain people like Finkelstein, Chomsky or Cole? I guess they're just self hating Jews? ;)
Self-loathing Jews are so common that they're a racial stereotype. ::)
That's fucked up, Scrap. Enough.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
If it was only a million does that make it okay?
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I think only a million makes it okay. :zoinks:
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.
I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.
What "conspiracy theories"? When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway. Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.
You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.
You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
::)
That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
If it was only a million does that make it okay?
1 person is 1 too many. But the Holocaust Industry have made it a crime in some countries to say it's less than 6 million, which is actually true. They have added millions of phantom deaths to create more guilt, so that people don't criticize Israel when they go on a murderous rampage. It's repulsive.
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.
I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.
What "conspiracy theories"? When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway. Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.
You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.
You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.
You knew nothing about either, which you proved by denying there had been lies and distortions. You're a fact denier.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
::)
That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.
But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
If it was only a million does that make it okay?
1 person is 1 too many. But the Holocaust Industry have made it a crime in some countries to say it's less than 6 million, which is actually true. They have added millions of phantom deaths to create more guilt, so that people don't criticize Israel when they go on a murderous rampage. It's repulsive.
I'm pretty sure Israel has used, and still uses, the Holocaust to further their own agenda, but that doesn't mean they added "millions of phantom deaths".
You do know that if you add other groups to the head count, the numbers are significantly higher, right?
I feel a bit sorry for you, actually. It is as if the real world isn't enough for you.
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.
I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.
What "conspiracy theories"? When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway. Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.
You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.
You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.
You knew nothing about either, which you proved by denying there had been lies and distortions. You're a fact denier.
Another fail. Where did I deny there haven't been lies and distortions? There have been plenty of them but we don't agree on who is lying.
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
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I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
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Most people can't even name the first genocide of the 20th century. :orly:
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Would not surprise me if there was one before 1915
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
::)
That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.
But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.
No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
::)
That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.
But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.
No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.
That doesn't make any sense, Rage. A scholar will not allow an ideology to colour his research.
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I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
::)
That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.
But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.
No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.
That doesn't make any sense, Rage. A scholar will not allow an ideology to colour his research.
Ideologues can call themselves scholars and politic their way into academia in order to become a "scholar" who allows ideology to color their research. It happens more often than most would like to think.
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
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I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
Actually, that's what you'd expect. If the exact same number was consistently reported, that would be the sign of a hoax.
The fact that different researchers come up with numbers that are fairly close, but not exact, lends creedence to them.
If you want a better de-bunking of Holocaust BS, read the chapter in Michael Shermer's book, Why People Believe Wierd Things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_People_Believe_Weird_Things (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_People_Believe_Weird_Things)
http://www.amazon.com/People-Believe-Weird-Things-Pseudoscience/dp/0805070893 (http://www.amazon.com/People-Believe-Weird-Things-Pseudoscience/dp/0805070893)
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I would think that such a horrible incident could merit a research effort which yields more final answers. But you know, asspie. :P :asthing:
On the subject of busting pseudoscientist ass, my all time favorite was James Randi. I loved how that guy called people out.
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Michael Shermer is a friend of James Randi, they have worked together on a few projects.
I also like Penn & Teller. Their HBO show, BULLSHIT! was an instant classic.
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Michael Shermer is a friend of James Randi, they have worked together on a few projects.
I also like Penn & Teller. Their HBO show, BULLSHIT! was an instant classic.
Yeah P&T are great too. The amazing Randi is just my favorite. :P
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I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
Read what hyke actually wrote then.
The fact is that--and this has been pointed out by many scholars--there's no way to know the exact numbers. Sadly, this has been used by the tinfoils to prove something else entirely. You might want to focus your anger on those.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Well it doesn't really matter how much of an atrocity something is when you aren't talking about what an atrocity it is. If you're talking about a number of people, it doesn't make sense to just make things up. Especially since it WAS an atrocity. :thumbdn:
No, it doesn't make sense. Look into the matter and you'll find that there are quite a few different estimates, including the commonly quoted six million Jews number. The variations can be explained without inventing conspiracy theories, though, and IIRC, this has been discussed here before.
Attacking the numbers does make sense for the conspiracy nuts, though, which is what is happening here. Sad, really.
::)
That ridiculous. I myself am interested in finding the facts, which is almost impossible because of people "attacking" everything ideologically.
If you're saying that the conspiracy nuts are being ridiculous, I agree. If not, then please rephrase.
But if you are interested in facts, there are plenty of sources online.
No. I am saying the conspiracy nuts and scholars alike are being ridiculous. I am fucking sick of ideologues destroying education.
That doesn't make any sense, Rage. A scholar will not allow an ideology to colour his research.
Ideologues can call themselves scholars and politic their way into academia in order to become a "scholar" who allows ideology to color their research. It happens more often than most would like to think.
Your solution is to question every scholarly attempt instead? What, exactly, are you saying?
And what ideology, or ideologies, are you referring to?
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
FFS, read up on why this is the case first. :facepalm:
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I would think that such a horrible incident could merit a research effort which yields more final answers.
I suggest you read up on the subject, then.
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
FFS, read up on why this is the case first. :facepalm:
I have, and it isn't good enough. With the power of our current science, we should be able to find a much more solid truth.
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
FFS, read up on why this is the case first. :facepalm:
I have, and it isn't good enough. With the power of our current science, we should be able to find a much more solid truth.
Not exactly sure how the 'power of our current science' could be applied to this
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Not exactly sure how the 'power of our current science' could be applied to this
They could all be dug up and forensic science used to count them. :zoinks:
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I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
FFS, read up on why this is the case first. :facepalm:
I have, and it isn't good enough. With the power of our current science, we should be able to find a much more solid truth.
Not exactly sure how the 'power of our current science' could be applied to this
I'd love to know.
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
FFS, read up on why this is the case first. :facepalm:
I have, and it isn't good enough. With the power of our current science, we should be able to find a much more solid truth.
Not exactly sure how the 'power of our current science' could be applied to this
I'd love to know.
:zoinks:
(http://www.tvacres.com/images/spacecraft_time_tunnel5.jpg)
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When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
If it was only a million does that make it okay?
1 person is 1 too many. But the Holocaust Industry have made it a crime in some countries to say it's less than 6 million, which is actually true. They have added millions of phantom deaths to create more guilt, so that people don't criticize Israel when they go on a murderous rampage. It's repulsive.
I'm pretty sure Israel has used, and still uses, the Holocaust to further their own agenda, but that doesn't mean they added "millions of phantom deaths".
You do know that if you add other groups to the head count, the numbers are significantly higher, right?
I feel a bit sorry for you, actually. It is as if the real world isn't enough for you.
They have, it's common knowledge. Actually yeah, that was probably the wrong way to put it. Though it's pretty certain they've lied about the way they were killed.
What, like the kind of groups that ancient aliens didn't want mentioned in Holocaust museums?
You think the real world is what you see on FOX news, that's the real tragedy.
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And hang on. If you'd known about the book and lawsuit, you wouldn't have accused me of tinfoilism. You're a fucking liar.
Oh, I see. You mean that anyone who knows about the book and the lawsuit is bound to agree with your conspiracy theories? You're fun.
I know about Area 51, too. I just don't buy it.
What "conspiracy theories"? When I said that the Holocaust Industry had lied and made distortions about the Nazi Holocaust, you accused me of tinfoilism, then I proved my point, so then you said you knew about it anyway. Fucking man up and just admit you were wrong and you're outrageously ignorant.
You proved your point how? By equalling the fact that there is a book and a lawsuit, both of which I knew about, with proof of your tinfoilism? Sorry, it takes more than that. A lot more.
You remain a kook and of little importance beyond the entertainment value.
You knew nothing about either, which you proved by denying there had been lies and distortions. You're a fact denier.
Another fail. Where did I deny there haven't been lies and distortions? There have been plenty of them but we don't agree on who is lying.
Who's lying? Gimme some names.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
True, they migrated to Palestine. Many German Jews migrated to Palestine in a deal between ancient aliens and Nazi Germany. And that's just the legal ones. They were deported all over the place, and would end up in Palestine/Israel after 1948. It'd be interesting to know if some of the "dead", were migrants who changed their names to more Hebrew sounding ones, once they'd migrated to Palestine. The plan to get Jews out of Europe had started decades before WWII, with the Jewish question. Part of that was down to the anti Jewishness in places like Russia, where they were blamed for the Tsar's death, and the other part was about Jews not wanting to lose "their identity" among us Europeans. Ben-Gurion talked about being able to get away with things you wouldn't normally be able to in the "times of war". Lol, and some of that is down to so many "Jews" rejecting Judaism, and seeing Orthodox Jews as dinosaurs.
Bollocks. It's just the only one that is talked about every single day.
-
I can get how someone not living on the European continent can question the numbers. It is massive. Doesn't matter if it was somewhat less or somewhat more than 6 million, it is massive and horrid none the less.
On the European continent that means that in many cities and towns, there is no or hardly a Jewish community left, since WWII. Synagogues have been turned into exhibition rooms or things like that.
No way all those people migrated to Israel. They are gone, and they are gone for good.
It isn't the first, it won't be the last genocide happening. It is the first genocide that happened in such an industrialised way.
+
The numbers actually do matter, and i'm sick of people saying they don't.
I used "somewhat" wasn't talking about a million less or more.
I know, but the truth is there is no set number. I think that's ridiculous to be honest.
FFS, read up on why this is the case first. :facepalm:
I have, and it isn't good enough. With the power of our current science, we should be able to find a much more solid truth.
It's not allowed to be investigated, for good reasons.
-
It's not allowed to be investigated, for good reasons.
Perhaps not in some European countries but it can be investigated in the US and other places.
FFS, both you and Rage need to buy Michael Shermer's book and see why this is a bunch of nonsense.
He addresses all the "points" you bring up that none of us here have the patience with you to do.
-
It's not allowed to be investigated, for good reasons.
Perhaps not in some European countries but it can be investigated in the US and other places.
FFS, both you and Rage need to buy Michael Shermer's book and see why this is a bunch of nonsense.
He addresses all the "points" you bring up that none of us here have the patience with you to do.
By who? They will be deported or arrested, or both.
You don't sound like you've read it yourself.
-
It's not allowed to be investigated, for good reasons.
Perhaps not in some European countries but it can be investigated in the US and other places.
FFS, both you and Rage need to buy Michael Shermer's book and see why this is a bunch of nonsense.
He addresses all the "points" you bring up that none of us here have the patience with you to do.
By who? They will be deported or arrested, or both.
:tinfoil:
You don't sound like you've read it yourself.
I've read is a few times. He has a whole chapter devoted to Holocause denial BS.
http://www.amazon.com/People-Believe-Weird-Things-Pseudoscience/dp/0805070893 (http://www.amazon.com/People-Believe-Weird-Things-Pseudoscience/dp/0805070893)
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
-
You think the real world is what you see on FOX news, that's the real tragedy.
The real tragedy is you. I don't watch FOX news.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.
What would you like me to prove? Any requests? Can you prove the Holocaust?
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
-
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.
I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.
-
Holocaust Deniers with Michael Shermer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoXX9XqdVd8#ws)
-
Michael Shermer & Alex Grobman: Denying History (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrMQpeWmDXA#)
-
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.
I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.
Because you can't. Thanks for clarifying.
-
Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.
-
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.
I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.
Because you can't. Thanks for clarifying.
I can, I just won't, because you're just not worth it. :hahaha:
Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.
What would you like me to prove? Any requests? Can you prove the Holocaust?
I don't have to. It's been done over and over again. If you're saying it didn't happen, you have some work ahead of you.
Poor kook.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
-
Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.
Seriously? This is how you argue? :hahaha:
-
Thought of you, Benji. :eyelash:
http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/09/14/the-intellectually-barren-wasteland-of-holocaust-denial/ (http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/09/14/the-intellectually-barren-wasteland-of-holocaust-denial/)
-
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book.
I can't be arsed. Read the damn book yourself.
Because you can't. Thanks for clarifying.
I can, I just won't, because you're just not worth it. :hahaha:
Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
No, you just aren't capable.
He is. I thought you'd be pleased? His views on most things don't add up with his views on Israel. Nothing tinfoil about that, it's very common.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.
What would you like me to prove? Any requests? Can you prove the Holocaust?
I don't have to. It's been done over and over again. If you're saying it didn't happen, you have some work ahead of you.
Poor kook.
No it hasn't. There's actually zero proof for certain parts of it. But as I said, it's not a yes or no question. It's not up to anyone to prove a negative. Moron.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
I never said the Holocaust didn't happen, don't twist my words. Just proved that you can be locked up in certain European countries for that.
Uh, maybe that's because the tortured people didn't want to lie? Again, are you denying the torturing happened?
ISIS have been funded by US allies and some have been trained by the US. Like Al Qaeda members were in the past.
-
Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.
Seriously? This is how you argue? :hahaha:
Would you rather I post a meme or just say I know the answer but can't be bothered to post it? It's very important. All his credibility goes out the window.
-
Thought of you, Benji. :eyelash:
http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/09/14/the-intellectually-barren-wasteland-of-holocaust-denial/ (http://debunkingdenialism.com/2013/09/14/the-intellectually-barren-wasteland-of-holocaust-denial/)
Debunking debunkers, 911 truck bombs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02QrY-jcdk#)
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.
What would you like me to prove? Any requests? Can you prove the Holocaust?
I don't have to. It's been done over and over again. If you're saying it didn't happen, you have some work ahead of you.
Poor kook.
No it hasn't. There's actually zero proof for certain parts of it. But as I said, it's not a yes or no question. It's not up to anyone to prove a negative. Moron.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial)
Poor kook.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
I never said the Holocaust didn't happen, don't twist my words. Just proved that you can be locked up in certain European countries for that.
For Holocaust denial, yes. For saying the figure wasn't 6 million, no.
So since you now twist your posts and deny your denial, then, in your own words, tell us what you think did happen. Go on. Take your time.
Uh, maybe that's because the tortured people didn't want to lie? Again, are you denying the torturing happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies)
ISIS have been funded by US allies and some have been trained by the US. Like Al Qaeda members were in the past.
Some individual members, yes, probably. The organisations(s), no.
As for the funding of ISIL/ISIS/IS, still waiting for you to provide proof.
-
Surprise surprise, Shermer is a ancient alien slug, and all his alleged, usual skeptical and rational credentials go out the window, when speaking about the subject.
Seriously? This is how you argue? :hahaha:
Would you rather I post a meme or just say I know the answer but can't be bothered to post it? It's very important. All his credibility goes out the window.
I don't really care what you do, tbh, considering your ineptness in your other replies. You are sort of amusing, yet pitiful.
-
When I first started studying the numbers I found it fascinating that the kooks would question the six million figure and then downplay the holocaust based on their opinion that the figure was less. As if one or two or three million would somehow make it something less than an atrocity.
And then, of course, there's the type of kook that denies the holocaust altogether, like the OP of this thread. If you want to know what I think about those, read this thread and the others that Illusion started or posted in.
And there's the Benji type, eagerly parroting others but failing to produce an original thought of any kind. The type of kook that just knows that there is a conspiracy of some kind to be promoted but is too dim to put any of it into any sort of coherence.
Your ignorance is embarrassing :facepalm2: When did you first start, yesterday? The 6 million number has been drilled into people's heads since the 1960's, ever since the US really tied the knot with Israel, aka the 1967, Six Day War. Before that, only one real book was written on the Nazi Holocaust, by Raul Hilberg in 1961. His figure in that was 5.1 million. Maybe he was counting the 4 Million plaque at Auschwitz, which has since been changed to 1 million. Now my maths isn't great, but not sure how the 6 million figure remains the same :scratchhead: Then there's the gas chambers, and there not being a shred of evidence to prove it. As well as people lying about it, including the BBC, who decided to add "gas chambers" to the subtitles of what a German soldier said he saw in the camp. Why lie?
It's all about Israel, which Finkelstein proves in the book. Guilt tripping propaganda, so any criticism of Israel's murderous policies can be countered with The Holocaust and Anti Semite slurs. An ex Israeli foreign minister even admitted this.
I suspect I'm about twice your age, so I suppose I started long before you were born.
But let's reiterate some of the basics. The six million Jews figure is usually attributed to Eichmann. He was quoted at the Nuremberg trials by an SS officer. About half of that number is *documented* by the Holocaust centre in Jerusalem but IIRC, they do not offer an exact number of the total Jews killed.
I believe there were early Russian numbers that went beyond the six million figure but were countered by an early British study and book that claimed a bit more than 4 million. There's the Hilberg book that you mentioned, and a German scholarly work that I believe confirms the Eichmann numbers. There's the Holocaust Encyclopaedia that I think also cites a six million figure. There's a later work by Dawidowicz that I believe disregarded Hilberg's work and caused a controversy, but quoted similar numbers. And there are many more modern additions, of course.
Additionally, there are quite a few films made on the subject, including some very well received documentaries--there is a French documentary made in the 80s that I came across at a festival, for example, that is very interesting. Can't remember the name, though. There are several Shoah foundations, including Spielberg's Holocaust documentation project, and there are several active scholarly studies going on.
My point is that there is a *lot* of information out there. Most of it easily accessible, these days, rather unlike the situation in the 50s, 60s and 70s (when I first started reading up on the subject). And yet, what you seem to focus on are the nutjobs (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities).
But you could have looked up all this, easily. I suspect these are simply the links you ignored.
See that's better, you made some kind of effort. Wasn't so hard was it mate?
You seem very naive for an OAP.
So that's what you base it on, hearsay?! Yeah, Eichmann was meant to have told some guy who was most likely tortured into a "confession". I guess that's good enough. "The Holocaust center" and propaganda disgraces like that cannot be taken seriously. Holocaust centers in the US tried to stop Gypsies and the disabled being mentioned, and wanted it to just be about Jews.
So no one knows the number, which is clear. Yet the 6 million number is continuously drilled into minds across the world. Anything involving The Holocaust is going to be well received, and it's funny you mention Speilberg's debacle, which I showed you an extract of before, where it's shown that he has made someone lie for his Hollywood production. Zisblatt lies and lies in the documentary, and she's not the only one. It speaks volumes that you take hoax's like that seriously. As they say "there's no business like Shoa business". Speilberg should be locked up.
And we musn't forget the 6 million Jews between 1915-38. They seem to like that number :zoinks:
"SIX MILLION JEWS" reference in ten newspapers between 1915 - 1938 (HD) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEJ_7vJIuUc#ws)
I'm not "focusing on the nutjobs", i'm focusing on the facts, which is difficult, cause there isn't many. "The Holocaust" wasn't mentioned until the 1960's, when the US formed their strong alliance with Israel.
" (hint: an Israeli minister is most likely not an authority to be trusted, one way or another; Israel as a political entity does have an agenda beyond scholarly studies, as do most other political entities)."
Right, they can only be trusted when they tell us about The Holocaust. She can be trusted, because she's speaking the truth, which has been proven by scholars like Finkelstein anyway. Lol, no course not, no agenda! That's why people like Shimon Peres denied the Armenian genocide. He didn't want other victims being spoken of. And Ariel Sharon saying that Israel controls the US.
So your "proof" seems to be mostly to...
* Rely on authorities (in your case Finkelstein)
* Distrust anything having to do with Israel (an Israeli scholar can be ignored because they have rotten politicians)
* Assume the SS officer must have been tortured (I notice how you don't actually try to prove anything)
* Question Spielberg's whole project based on one testimony
* Use catchy phrases like "no business like shoa business", no doubt parroted, name calling, etc
* Muddy the waters by questioning the ethnic group by producing irrelevant statements
Did I forget something? :zoinks:
Fail.
You couldn't counter a single thing I put in that last post, but in you're world, that's success? :lol1:
Well at least your tried, a bit...
*I don't rely on "Finkelstein", I rely on the official sources he provides.
* Not at all, I trust Israeli scholars like Illan Pappe, Miko Peled and Avi Shlaim.
* Are you denying the torturing during the trials?
* Not "one testimony". As I said, she wasn't the only one. And it is clear to see that Speilberg has paid her to lie. There's endless bullshit. African Americans claiming they liberated a camp they weren't even near.
* You're above all that.
* What?
I love it how you still don't prove anything. Poor kook.
What would you like me to prove? Any requests? Can you prove the Holocaust?
I don't have to. It's been done over and over again. If you're saying it didn't happen, you have some work ahead of you.
Poor kook.
No it hasn't. There's actually zero proof for certain parts of it. But as I said, it's not a yes or no question. It's not up to anyone to prove a negative. Moron.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial)
Poor kook.
Did you just gimme a link without commentary? :zoinks: There's zero evidence for certain parts, and people have been caught lying about certain events, and all this is to push guilt on society so Israel gets away with it's crimes. What is wrong with detesting this?
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
I never said the Holocaust didn't happen, don't twist my words. Just proved that you can be locked up in certain European countries for that.
For Holocaust denial, yes. For saying the figure wasn't 6 million, no.
So since you now twist your posts and deny your denial, then, in your own words, tell us what you think did happen. Go on. Take your time.
Uh, maybe that's because the tortured people didn't want to lie? Again, are you denying the torturing happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies)
ISIS have been funded by US allies and some have been trained by the US. Like Al Qaeda members were in the past.
Some individual members, yes, probably. The organisations(s), no.
As for the funding of ISIL/ISIS/IS, still waiting for you to provide proof.
:facepalm2: So saying that the 6 million figure is miles out isn't considered a form of "Holocaust Denial"? You really are clueless. You don't think saying it was far less than six million would be considered "grossly minimizing"??? So Zundel's book he published wasn't a form of "Holocaust denial"? I mean really, are you really this stupid, or another who's petrified of being wrong?
And again, I provided the link, you just called the author a kook and ignored the sources provided and said she only uses Wikipedia when it suits her lol.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
"It wasn't 6 million" is not in itself grossly minimising. If you want a punishable quote, try something like "it was significantly less than 6 million" or perhaps "the 6 million figure is a lie".
See, "it wasn't 6 million" could mean anything, including "it was more than that". If you, on the other hand, qualify it, then they might lock you up, depending on how you choose to do it.
See how this works? I would have thought it to be obvious, but I'm here to help.
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
I never said the Holocaust didn't happen, don't twist my words. Just proved that you can be locked up in certain European countries for that.
For Holocaust denial, yes. For saying the figure wasn't 6 million, no.
So since you now twist your posts and deny your denial, then, in your own words, tell us what you think did happen. Go on. Take your time.
Uh, maybe that's because the tortured people didn't want to lie? Again, are you denying the torturing happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies)
ISIS have been funded by US allies and some have been trained by the US. Like Al Qaeda members were in the past.
Some individual members, yes, probably. The organisations(s), no.
As for the funding of ISIL/ISIS/IS, still waiting for you to provide proof.
:facepalm2: So saying that the 6 million figure is miles out isn't considered a form of "Holocaust Denial"? You really are clueless. You don't think saying it was far less than six million would be considered "grossly minimizing"??? So Zundel's book he published wasn't a form of "Holocaust denial"? I mean really, are you really this stupid, or another who's petrified of being wrong?
And again, I provided the link, you just called the author a kook and ignored the sources provided and said she only uses Wikipedia when it suits her lol.
"Miles out" and "far less" are both qualifiers that help if you plan on moving to Belgium or Israel. "The figure isn't 6 million" by itself does not. See how this works?
Semantics really isn't your thing, is it?
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
"It wasn't 6 million" is not in itself grossly minimising. If you want a punishable quote, try something like "it was significantly less than 6 million" or perhaps "the 6 million figure is a lie".
See, "it wasn't 6 million" could mean anything, including "it was more than that". If you, on the other hand, qualify it, then they might lock you up, depending on how you choose to do it.
See how this works? I would have thought it to be obvious, but I'm here to help.
Oh fuck off :rofl:
Just admit you were wrong. Cause yeah, maybe when "Holocaust Deniers" publish books saying "Did Six Million Really Die?", they meant that maybe it was 7 million!! :facepalm2: You really are pathetic. You know full well what I meant by saying that people could be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And it's fucking you with reading comprehensions, as if I was saying they were literally being locked up for saying "it wasn't 6 million", then i'd have put it in quotations.
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
I never said the Holocaust didn't happen, don't twist my words. Just proved that you can be locked up in certain European countries for that.
For Holocaust denial, yes. For saying the figure wasn't 6 million, no.
So since you now twist your posts and deny your denial, then, in your own words, tell us what you think did happen. Go on. Take your time.
Uh, maybe that's because the tortured people didn't want to lie? Again, are you denying the torturing happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies)
ISIS have been funded by US allies and some have been trained by the US. Like Al Qaeda members were in the past.
Some individual members, yes, probably. The organisations(s), no.
As for the funding of ISIL/ISIS/IS, still waiting for you to provide proof.
:facepalm2: So saying that the 6 million figure is miles out isn't considered a form of "Holocaust Denial"? You really are clueless. You don't think saying it was far less than six million would be considered "grossly minimizing"??? So Zundel's book he published wasn't a form of "Holocaust denial"? I mean really, are you really this stupid, or another who's petrified of being wrong?
And again, I provided the link, you just called the author a kook and ignored the sources provided and said she only uses Wikipedia when it suits her lol.
"Miles out" and "far less" are both qualifiers that help if you plan on moving to Belgium or Israel. "The figure isn't 6 million" by itself does not. See how this works?
Semantics really isn't your thing, is it?
Honesty isn't yours.
-
In a way I feel very sorry for those that do not believe this horrible act of recent history took place...I am a positive person not one to poke others and attempt to bridge social gaps and give benefits of the doubt...
I can see why denying this would be something tempting, how can humans be that hateful? They can...and it's so horrific to remember and or comprehend...I have come to the conclusion this is at the root of why folks deny this took place even all these years later...they cannot believe how inhuman their fellow humans can be...
Then again; this is just my take and like I said I give folks the benefit of the doubt...
-
The truth behind the gates of Auschwitz: A shitload of people died for no reason other than the hatred of others who happened to have a shitload of power and that's just fucking awful, as far as genocide goes it's probably the one with the second or third most deaths, the one with the most probably being that of the Native Americans (an estimated 80-90% of that whole population, but more died from smallpox than human action)
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
The Holocaust is something that as a species we must never allow to happen again. However, because the human race is the utter scum of the universe we'll commit another major genocide without giving it a second thought if given the chance (heck there are genocides happening right now that we're actually supporting as a species).
There's always going to be genocide in our world and there is always going to be people supporting that genocide. There isn't much we can do about that but sit back, watch and then years later try to explain to our grandchildren why we allowed it to happen.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
"It wasn't 6 million" is not in itself grossly minimising. If you want a punishable quote, try something like "it was significantly less than 6 million" or perhaps "the 6 million figure is a lie".
See, "it wasn't 6 million" could mean anything, including "it was more than that". If you, on the other hand, qualify it, then they might lock you up, depending on how you choose to do it.
See how this works? I would have thought it to be obvious, but I'm here to help.
Oh fuck off :rofl:
Just admit you were wrong. Cause yeah, maybe when "Holocaust Deniers" publish books saying "Did Six Million Really Die?", they meant that maybe it was 7 million!! :facepalm2: You really are pathetic. You know full well what I meant by saying that people could be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And it's fucking you with reading comprehensions, as if I was saying they were literally being locked up for saying "it wasn't 6 million", then i'd have put it in quotations.
Does it annoy you to have such a weak grasp of what is supposedly your first language?
-
Not sure what the tinfoil thing is for? Are you in complete denial? If you accused Muslims of trying to suppress something, would you just be doing it out of tinfoilism? I guess if Muslims controlled your country, things would be the opposite.
Well if you've read it a few times, counter some of the points, using what you've learned from the book. I'm not like you, i'm not petrified of being wrong.
It's a good thing. You'd live your life in fear.
Tell me some things i've been wrong about, in detail?
For example, some minor details, just now, like that the Holocaust didn't happen. Because that is what you are saying, isn't it? Or that some countries will lock you up if you question a number.
And an honorary mention goes to your insinuations about torture at Nuremberg--they must have been the worst torturers in history, considering how few confessions they managed to produce.
The origins of ISIS and who finances them is in another thread but nevertheless goes into this category.
Etc. Read your posts.
I never said the Holocaust didn't happen, don't twist my words. Just proved that you can be locked up in certain European countries for that.
For Holocaust denial, yes. For saying the figure wasn't 6 million, no.
So since you now twist your posts and deny your denial, then, in your own words, tell us what you think did happen. Go on. Take your time.
Uh, maybe that's because the tortured people didn't want to lie? Again, are you denying the torturing happened?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial#Testimonies)
ISIS have been funded by US allies and some have been trained by the US. Like Al Qaeda members were in the past.
Some individual members, yes, probably. The organisations(s), no.
As for the funding of ISIL/ISIS/IS, still waiting for you to provide proof.
:facepalm2: So saying that the 6 million figure is miles out isn't considered a form of "Holocaust Denial"? You really are clueless. You don't think saying it was far less than six million would be considered "grossly minimizing"??? So Zundel's book he published wasn't a form of "Holocaust denial"? I mean really, are you really this stupid, or another who's petrified of being wrong?
And again, I provided the link, you just called the author a kook and ignored the sources provided and said she only uses Wikipedia when it suits her lol.
"Miles out" and "far less" are both qualifiers that help if you plan on moving to Belgium or Israel. "The figure isn't 6 million" by itself does not. See how this works?
Semantics really isn't your thing, is it?
Honesty isn't yours.
And where am I not being honest? It really bothers you that you have trouble expressing yourself, doesn't it?
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
Fuck me, it's a lot more horrific than I realized. :(
-
They basically killed everyone who wasn't really into global germanism, retarded, gay, not brimming with mystical "vrill" energies (yeah, I know right?).
I think the problem here is that some people would prefer to know a more exact account of what happened. and when they dig into it they are automatically called a Nazi and a jew hater, and sometimes thrown in jail.
Don't you think that's strange behavior? I mean, its perfectly reasonable to want as clear a picture as possible of such an event, as to be more able to prevent it from happening again.
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
Fuck me, it's a lot more horrific than I realized. :(
For some groups it the numbers of people killed are pretty precise. For some groups the numbers are completely unclear. For the Roma and the Sinti for example. Half a million is seen as a reliable estimate, but there are figures saying it is less than half of that, and figures saying it could be four times as much.
It was much, it was industrial killing of people because of who they were.
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
Absolutely. Nazi Germany was a death machine.
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
The "Deutsche Christen" and "Die Bekennende Kirche" were quite different in their views on Hitler's regime.
Both groups probably thought they were Christians not in name only. But what a difference between the two of them.
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
The "Deutsche Christen" and "Die Bekennende Kirche" were quite different in their views on Hitler's regime.
Both groups probably thought they were Christians not in name only. But what a difference between the two of them.
Most default style idealism ends up that way though.
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
The "Deutsche Christen" and "Die Bekennende Kirche" were quite different in their views on Hitler's regime.
Both groups probably thought they were Christians not in name only. But what a difference between the two of them.
Most default style idealism ends up that way though.
I was wondering why Hannah mentioned the faith/belief system of people being brave enough to stand up against Nazi ideology. That's why I mentioned both a group of convinced collaborators and a group of convinced critics of the Nazi ideology.
The Christians that did stand up against it very likely found strength and courage in their faith, but the communists and the atheists helping fugitives from Nazi regime found courage somewhere too.
-
That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
-
That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life. Whether it was because they hoped to show their own system was better, or because doubt and resistance was part of their belief/view on life. Mutual support will have helped too.
-
That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life. Whether it was because they hoped to show their own system was better, or because doubt and resistance was part of their belief/view on life. Mutual support will have helped too.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life.
If this is the case, I would say that's probably why the western world had decayed to the point of death in the present time.
-
That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life. Whether it was because they hoped to show their own system was better, or because doubt and resistance was part of their belief/view on life. Mutual support will have helped too.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life.
If this is the case, I would say that's probably why the western world had decayed to the point of death in the present time.
Why? People find strength somewhere. Not only in the western world. Resistance often happens in groups of people finding more in common than only what they are against. Not talking about fundamentalism or anything like that. Something making mutual trust easier.
-
That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life. Whether it was because they hoped to show their own system was better, or because doubt and resistance was part of their belief/view on life. Mutual support will have helped too.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life.
If this is the case, I would say that's probably why the western world had decayed to the point of death in the present time.
Why? People find strength somewhere. Not only in the western world. Resistance often happens in groups of people finding more in common than only what they are against. Not talking about fundamentalism or anything like that. Something making mutual trust easier.
All people have plenty in common. Idealism is what divides.
-
That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life. Whether it was because they hoped to show their own system was better, or because doubt and resistance was part of their belief/view on life. Mutual support will have helped too.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life.
If this is the case, I would say that's probably why the western world had decayed to the point of death in the present time.
Why? People find strength somewhere. Not only in the western world. Resistance often happens in groups of people finding more in common than only what they are against. Not talking about fundamentalism or anything like that. Something making mutual trust easier.
All people have plenty in common. Idealism is what divides.
I think we are talking from different angles, and about different things here.
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They basically killed everyone who wasn't really into global germanism, retarded, gay, not brimming with mystical "vrill" energies (yeah, I know right?).
I think the problem here is that some people would prefer to know a more exact account of what happened. and when they dig into it they are automatically called a Nazi and a jew hater, and sometimes thrown in jail.
Don't you think that's strange behavior? I mean, its perfectly reasonable to want as clear a picture as possible of such an event, as to be more able to prevent it from happening again.
The problem *here* is that people are expected to back up their shit.
And you're making a rather inaccurate generalisation.
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They basically killed everyone who wasn't really into global germanism, retarded, gay, not brimming with mystical "vrill" energies (yeah, I know right?).
I think the problem here is that some people would prefer to know a more exact account of what happened. and when they dig into it they are automatically called a Nazi and a jew hater, and sometimes thrown in jail.
Don't you think that's strange behavior? I mean, its perfectly reasonable to want as clear a picture as possible of such an event, as to be more able to prevent it from happening again.
The problem *here* is that people are expected to back up their shit.
And you're making a rather inaccurate generalisation.
Odeon what are you even talking about?
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He is probably refering to the fact that holocaust-deniers fail to "back their shit up" properly, and thus cannot be treated as serious investigators, instead reveal themselves to be part of political movements that attempt to sow instability, and are therefore thrown in jail.
I'm all for laws that prevent right-wing groups from gaining strength. I'll take blind consumerism over piles of dead people any day.
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I'll take blind consumerism over piles of dead people any day.
That's because you have no sense of art. :M
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Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
The "Deutsche Christen" and "Die Bekennende Kirche" were quite different in their views on Hitler's regime.
Both groups probably thought they were Christians not in name only. But what a difference between the two of them.
Most default style idealism ends up that way though.
I was wondering why Hannah mentioned the faith/belief system of people being brave enough to stand up against Nazi ideology. That's why I mentioned both a group of convinced collaborators and a group of convinced critics of the Nazi ideology.
The Christians that did stand up against it very likely found strength and courage in their faith, but the communists and the atheists helping fugitives from Nazi regime found courage somewhere too.
Those that are not of faith have basic human decency in common with those that do have faith (some), and that is where their strength I am assuming came from during this period of history...
Bonhoffer is one of the unsung hero's of that generation, as are I'm sure others that were not of faith that were hero's in their own right...the thing that tied those together is simply being decent to one another in the face of human indecency
There is a reason I regard humans with wonder, because they are reflections of a divine being (I believe) and I find it fascinating each person's point of view, also every human has something to offer, it's why I hold to the convictions that I do and believe the way I do...
It says in the Bible that 'Love hates injustice but rejoices when the truth wins out' 1 Cor. 13 forgot the verse number :chores:
That to me is a universal concept of being a decent human being, loving one another as we love meaning respect ourselves...
I've been told I am unlike most who are Christians and it is true I gladly celebrate the fact that I am one of a kind as I celebrate each of you here :asthing: you guys are just so awesome and deep down kind...
I realize having this view will open myself up to hurt to those that would take advantage of my good will, but it's worth it in my opinion for the reward outweighs not knowing good people at all :headbang2:
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
The "Deutsche Christen" and "Die Bekennende Kirche" were quite different in their views on Hitler's regime.
Both groups probably thought they were Christians not in name only. But what a difference between the two of them.
Most default style idealism ends up that way though.
I was wondering why Hannah mentioned the faith/belief system of people being brave enough to stand up against Nazi ideology. That's why I mentioned both a group of convinced collaborators and a group of convinced critics of the Nazi ideology.
The Christians that did stand up against it very likely found strength and courage in their faith, but the communists and the atheists helping fugitives from Nazi regime found courage somewhere too.
Those that are not of faith have basic human decency in common with those that do have faith (some), and that is where their strength I am assuming came from during this period of history...
Bonhoffer is one of the unsung hero's of that generation, as are I'm sure others that were not of faith that were hero's in their own right...the thing that tied those together is simply being decent to one another in the face of human indecency
There is a reason I regard humans with wonder, because they are reflections of a divine being (I believe) and I find it fascinating each person's point of view, also every human has something to offer, it's why I hold to the convictions that I do and believe the way I do...
It says in the Bible that 'Love hates injustice but rejoices when the truth wins out' 1 Cor. 13 forgot the verse number :chores:
That to me is a universal concept of being a decent human being, loving one another as we love meaning respect ourselves...
I've been told I am unlike most who are Christians and it is true I gladly celebrate the fact that I am one of a kind as I celebrate each of you here :asthing: you guys are just so awesome and deep down kind...
I realize having this view will open myself up to hurt to those that would take advantage of my good will, but it's worth it in my opinion for the reward outweighs not knowing good people at all :headbang2:
I wish more religious people had that attitude :plus:
-
Some people don't know that the Nazis put more than just Jews to death because of their views. Homosexuals, disabled people, Communists, ethnic minorities and gypsies to name a few. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 6 million people died.
At least 11 million were killed. A recent study by the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington suggests a far higher number, up to 20 million in total.
I actually did know that other's were killed as well...the entire thing was just insane...Christians not in name only were among the 'other' humans brave enough to hide people who were later turned in and killed along with everyone else that didn't go along with whatever the heck they were trying to achieve...
The "Deutsche Christen" and "Die Bekennende Kirche" were quite different in their views on Hitler's regime.
Both groups probably thought they were Christians not in name only. But what a difference between the two of them.
Most default style idealism ends up that way though.
I was wondering why Hannah mentioned the faith/belief system of people being brave enough to stand up against Nazi ideology. That's why I mentioned both a group of convinced collaborators and a group of convinced critics of the Nazi ideology.
The Christians that did stand up against it very likely found strength and courage in their faith, but the communists and the atheists helping fugitives from Nazi regime found courage somewhere too.
Those that are not of faith have basic human decency in common with those that do have faith (some), and that is where their strength I am assuming came from during this period of history...
Bonhoffer is one of the unsung hero's of that generation, as are I'm sure others that were not of faith that were hero's in their own right...the thing that tied those together is simply being decent to one another in the face of human indecency
There is a reason I regard humans with wonder, because they are reflections of a divine being (I believe) and I find it fascinating each person's point of view, also every human has something to offer, it's why I hold to the convictions that I do and believe the way I do...
It says in the Bible that 'Love hates injustice but rejoices when the truth wins out' 1 Cor. 13 forgot the verse number :chores:
That to me is a universal concept of being a decent human being, loving one another as we love meaning respect ourselves...
I've been told I am unlike most who are Christians and it is true I gladly celebrate the fact that I am one of a kind as I celebrate each of you here :asthing: you guys are just so awesome and deep down kind...
I realize having this view will open myself up to hurt to those that would take advantage of my good will, but it's worth it in my opinion for the reward outweighs not knowing good people at all :headbang2:
This makes sense indeed.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Martin Niemöller were part of the Bekennende Kirche. They are quite different in lots of ways when it comes to their faith, but they were together in this resistance against the Nazi regime. And their group was very active.
People from the Deutsche Christen felt themselves to be christian too. But the longing for being part of the state was way bigger than any urge to think critical out of their faith. They saw no harm in declaring people from the Bekennende Kirche to state enemies.
Bonhoeffer and Niemöller were inspirational also outside Christianity. They had the guts to stand up, when needed.
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That courage likely came simply from their individual will.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life. Whether it was because they hoped to show their own system was better, or because doubt and resistance was part of their belief/view on life. Mutual support will have helped too.
But they felt strengthened by their belief system/view on life.
If this is the case, I would say that's probably why the western world had decayed to the point of death in the present time.
Coming back to this.
From a pure practical point, it will have helped critics of the system to be part of a group. Not all within their group could be trusted, for sure. But, there was a structure that helped organise resistance. An individual on his own, against a whole regime, will not accomplish that much, most of the time.
Being backed up and supported by others, others with an organisation, will make resistance way more effective.
There is a reason churches were a great part in bringing down die Mauer in 1989. There was a structure that gave people the chance to organise themselves, and to be in contact with others.
And aside from the practical. Being together, no matter what connects, can bring comfort, hope and courage, when in despair.
Does not take away that it is individual courage that makes a person someone who can oppose a regime, no matter how threatening it is.
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In a way I feel very sorry for those that do not believe this horrible act of recent history took place...I am a positive person not one to poke others and attempt to bridge social gaps and give benefits of the doubt...
I can see why denying this would be something tempting, how can humans be that hateful? They can...and it's so horrific to remember and or comprehend...I have come to the conclusion this is at the root of why folks deny this took place even all these years later...they cannot believe how inhuman their fellow humans can be...
Then again; this is just my take and like I said I give folks the benefit of the doubt...
The need for the bold part said it all.
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If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
"It wasn't 6 million" is not in itself grossly minimising. If you want a punishable quote, try something like "it was significantly less than 6 million" or perhaps "the 6 million figure is a lie".
See, "it wasn't 6 million" could mean anything, including "it was more than that". If you, on the other hand, qualify it, then they might lock you up, depending on how you choose to do it.
See how this works? I would have thought it to be obvious, but I'm here to help.
Oh fuck off :rofl:
Just admit you were wrong. Cause yeah, maybe when "Holocaust Deniers" publish books saying "Did Six Million Really Die?", they meant that maybe it was 7 million!! :facepalm2: You really are pathetic. You know full well what I meant by saying that people could be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And it's fucking you with reading comprehensions, as if I was saying they were literally being locked up for saying "it wasn't 6 million", then i'd have put it in quotations.
Does it annoy you to have such a weak grasp of what is supposedly your first language?
Lol, it is really tragic how you are incapable of admitting one mistake.
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Odeon backs up his shit with name calling, wiki and memes. :-*
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
"It wasn't 6 million" is not in itself grossly minimising. If you want a punishable quote, try something like "it was significantly less than 6 million" or perhaps "the 6 million figure is a lie".
See, "it wasn't 6 million" could mean anything, including "it was more than that". If you, on the other hand, qualify it, then they might lock you up, depending on how you choose to do it.
See how this works? I would have thought it to be obvious, but I'm here to help.
Oh fuck off :rofl:
Just admit you were wrong. Cause yeah, maybe when "Holocaust Deniers" publish books saying "Did Six Million Really Die?", they meant that maybe it was 7 million!! :facepalm2: You really are pathetic. You know full well what I meant by saying that people could be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And it's fucking you with reading comprehensions, as if I was saying they were literally being locked up for saying "it wasn't 6 million", then i'd have put it in quotations.
Does it annoy you to have such a weak grasp of what is supposedly your first language?
Lol, it is really tragic how you are incapable of admitting one mistake.
Be honest about this and admit that you should have qualified your post.
I realise you still think missing such things is unimportant since you think people will fill in the blanks and know what you're on about anyway, but here's the thing: it matters, and matters greatly because when arguing a point as moronic as yours, you need to at the very least be able to hold on to that point rather than have someone like me rip you a new one because you are incapable of handling basic semantics.
-
Odeon backs up his shit with name calling, wiki and memes. :-*
Here's the really funny part: a meme is all it takes you to throw you off.
See, with some kooks, some arguing is necessary and providing links important. That's why places like this (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial1.html) and this (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial), as well as countless others, exist. There's a ton of research out there, waiting to be used.
But with others, all it takes is a meme and a bit of semantics.
What's important is to never allow a Holocaust denier to go on unopposed. We owe that much to the people who died. We owe it to them to make sure that it can never happen again.
-
One of the riskyest aspects of this is the precision.
If someone says 6 million jews died, someone else says 1,4 million jews died
1 400 000 people is a HUGE. FUCKING. LOT.
But to the deniers, it is the "proof they need" that there are LIES abound ">:O" and it's very difficult to say "YES, there may have been miscalculations, exaggerations, but look - we are even trying to remedy it by correcting memorial plaques!"
But manipulative minds will use this as a point of discredit "how could you have counted 5 million wrong? Maybe you counted another five million. Maybe WW2 CREATED 4,6 million jews!? :O"
It's the same in genetics research. For decades we have hammered down that ALL humans belong to the same species, that we are - intellectually, emotionally, physically, the same. There are differences, minute ones, but as recent science is beginning to categorize haplogroups and such, neo-nazis and other right-wing extremists launch themselves on it, and begin to present this information to fit their own agenda: "Look, SCIENCE says Humans and Niggers are separate creatures!"
and a scientist has no choice but to say "eh. yes. there is a registrable difference, but - "
"BUT NOTHING! NIGGER LOVER >: O"
-
Well that Zegh, but there are manipulative minds saying "SIX TRILLION JEWS" everywhere also. JEWS ARE AN UNDERCLASS IN ISRAEL, AND THE WORLD. THATS WHY WE NEED TO KILL THESE SANDNIGGERS. :dunno: :LOL: And then there is the white guilt narrative, and the fact that everyone is preciously oppressed in different levels by whiteness. (Even though Jewish and Chinese people came to America and achieved then exceeded average white accomplishment in a single generation. But you know, NIGGERS are different and held back by institutional racism and white privilege ITs okay, nigger. You're just a nigger *patpatpat*, you might as well not even work hard because evil whitey is going to keep you down whatever you do. He's smarter than you, and totally evil.
Fucking ridiculous. I am sick to death of all the lies.
I really grow weary of all the socio/political narratives, and I know you do too. You and I both know that this race shit is a trick, and the only difference between people is their individuality, which is also squashed by political and social narratives. :facepalm2:
Example:
*Every news channel is reporting the same thing, which later turns out to be false but that doesn't matter, because reality has already been changed*
Dumbass: *Turns on the tv, tunes in to the political ideologue hub of their choice, learns that a black kid got shot by a police officer. Knows absolutely nothing but the details they are spoonfed by the sexy action news team, each dripping with emotional falsehood. Becomes a champion of great justice, and logs in to fagbook to post five million statuses about what should or shouldn't happen.*
I hate it. That's what is actually holding people back.
-
One of the riskyest aspects of this is the precision.
If someone says 6 million jews died, someone else says 1,4 million jews died
1 400 000 people is a HUGE. FUCKING. LOT.
But to the deniers, it is the "proof they need" that there are LIES abound ">:O" and it's very difficult to say "YES, there may have been miscalculations, exaggerations, but look - we are even trying to remedy it by correcting memorial plaques!"
But manipulative minds will use this as a point of discredit "how could you have counted 5 million wrong? Maybe you counted another five million. Maybe WW2 CREATED 4,6 million jews!? :O"
It's the same in genetics research. For decades we have hammered down that ALL humans belong to the same species, that we are - intellectually, emotionally, physically, the same. There are differences, minute ones, but as recent science is beginning to categorize haplogroups and such, neo-nazis and other right-wing extremists launch themselves on it, and begin to present this information to fit their own agenda: "Look, SCIENCE says Humans and Niggers are separate creatures!"
and a scientist has no choice but to say "eh. yes. there is a registrable difference, but - "
"BUT NOTHING! NIGGER LOVER >: O"
I think roughly three million are accounted for, directly. It's a staggering number, as is 1.4 million. As is a thousand.
When I read Benji's posts, I'm struck by how he reacts on all the wrong things. It's the wrong number. You can get jailed by mentioning the wrong number. A witness is lying, got it wrong. Spielberg lied or contributed to a lie. Whatever.
He isn't denying it all outright but he is your typical average Holocaust denier nevertheless.
Tragic, that's what it is.
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Well that Zegh, but there are manipulative minds saying "SIX TRILLION JEWS" everywhere also. JEWS ARE AN UNDERCLASS IN ISRAEL, AND THE WORLD. THATS WHY WE NEED TO KILL THESE SANDNIGGERS. :dunno: :LOL: And then there is the white guilt narrative, and the fact that everyone is preciously oppressed in different levels by whiteness. (Even though Jewish and Chinese people came to America and achieved then exceeded average white accomplishment in a single generation. But you know, NIGGERS are different and held back by institutional racism and white privilege ITs okay, nigger. You're just a nigger *patpatpat*, you might as well not even work hard because evil whitey is going to keep you down whatever you do. He's smarter than you, and totally evil.
Fucking ridiculous. I am sick to death of all the lies.
I really grow weary of all the socio/political narratives, and I know you do too. You and I both know that this race shit is a trick, and the only difference between people is their individuality, which is also squashed by political and social narratives. :facepalm2:
Example:
*Every news channel is reporting the same thing, which later turns out to be false but that doesn't matter, because reality has already been changed*
Dumbass: *Turns on the tv, tunes in to the political ideologue hub of their choice, learns that a black kid got shot by a police officer. Knows absolutely nothing but the details they are spoonfed by the sexy action news team, each dripping with emotional falsehood. Becomes a champion of great justice, and logs in to fagbook to post five million statuses about what should or shouldn't happen.*
WTF are you on about? You don't make any sense whatsoever.
-
Well that Zegh, but there are manipulative minds saying "SIX TRILLION JEWS" everywhere also. JEWS ARE AN UNDERCLASS IN ISRAEL, AND THE WORLD. THATS WHY WE NEED TO KILL THESE SANDNIGGERS. :dunno: :LOL: And then there is the white guilt narrative, and the fact that everyone is preciously oppressed in different levels by whiteness. (Even though Jewish and Chinese people came to America and achieved then exceeded average white accomplishment in a single generation. But you know, NIGGERS are different and held back by institutional racism and white privilege ITs okay, nigger. You're just a nigger *patpatpat*, you might as well not even work hard because evil whitey is going to keep you down whatever you do. He's smarter than you, and totally evil.
Fucking ridiculous. I am sick to death of all the lies.
I really grow weary of all the socio/political narratives, and I know you do too. You and I both know that this race shit is a trick, and the only difference between people is their individuality, which is also squashed by political and social narratives. :facepalm2:
Example:
*Every news channel is reporting the same thing, which later turns out to be false but that doesn't matter, because reality has already been changed*
Dumbass: *Turns on the tv, tunes in to the political ideologue hub of their choice, learns that a black kid got shot by a police officer. Knows absolutely nothing but the details they are spoonfed by the sexy action news team, each dripping with emotional falsehood. Becomes a champion of great justice, and logs in to fagbook to post five million statuses about what should or shouldn't happen.*
WTF are you on about? You don't make any sense whatsoever.
:headhurts: Odeon..
-
Odeon backs up his shit with name calling, wiki and memes. :-*
Here's the really funny part: a meme is all it takes you to throw you off.
See, with some kooks, some arguing is necessary and providing links important. That's why places like this (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial1.html) and this (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial), as well as countless others, exist. There's a ton of research out there, waiting to be used.
But with others, all it takes is a meme and a bit of semantics.
What's important is to never allow a Holocaust denier to go on unopposed. We owe that much to the people who died. We owe it to them to make sure that it can never happen again.
"A Project of the American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise" :facepalm2: This site cannot be trusted. It's a US/Israel propaganda site. You do realize that? What, this is all the truth cause it says so and fits your beliefs? We owe it to the millions of people killed in the Middle East recently, to expose the US and Israel.
On points like "Did Nazis and ancient aliens collaborate?", it doesn't even answer the question or respond to the point it quotes from.
Of course it has some interesting points though and good rebuttals of die hard Holocaust deniers. I'll look into it.
-
If you say it wasn't 6 million, you are a Holocaust denier and could be locked up in some countries.
Priceless.
The truth is, yes.
Show me a country that locks you up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And before you start moving the goalposts, read what you wrote.
Austria
In Austria, the Verbotsgesetz 1947 provided the legal framework for the process of denazification in Austria and suppression of any potential revival of Nazism. In 1992, it was amended to prohibit the denial or gross minimisation of the Holocaust.
National Socialism Prohibition Law (1947, amendments of 1992)
§ 3g. He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished (revitalising of the NSDAP or identification with), with imprisonment from one to up to ten years, and in cases of particularly dangerous suspects or activity, be punished with up to twenty years' imprisonment.[15]
§ 3h. As an amendment to § 3 g., whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media.[16]
Belgium
Holocaust denial was made illegal in Belgium in 1995.
Negationism Law (1995, amendments of 1999)
Article 1 Whoever, in the circumstances given in article 444 of the Penal Code denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist Regime during the Second World War shall be punished by a prison sentence of eight days to one year, and by a fine of twenty six francs to five thousand francs. For the application of the previous paragraph, the term genocide is meant in the sense of article 2 of the International Treaty of 9 December 1948 on preventing and combating genocide. In the event of repetitions, the guilty party may in addition have his civic rights suspended in accordance with article 33 of the Penal Code.
Thus proving my point. Read what you wrote. :hahaha:
??? You can be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million aka grossly minimizing. Are you in some kind of denial?
"It wasn't 6 million" is not in itself grossly minimising. If you want a punishable quote, try something like "it was significantly less than 6 million" or perhaps "the 6 million figure is a lie".
See, "it wasn't 6 million" could mean anything, including "it was more than that". If you, on the other hand, qualify it, then they might lock you up, depending on how you choose to do it.
See how this works? I would have thought it to be obvious, but I'm here to help.
Oh fuck off :rofl:
Just admit you were wrong. Cause yeah, maybe when "Holocaust Deniers" publish books saying "Did Six Million Really Die?", they meant that maybe it was 7 million!! :facepalm2: You really are pathetic. You know full well what I meant by saying that people could be locked up for saying it wasn't 6 million. And it's fucking you with reading comprehensions, as if I was saying they were literally being locked up for saying "it wasn't 6 million", then i'd have put it in quotations.
Does it annoy you to have such a weak grasp of what is supposedly your first language?
Lol, it is really tragic how you are incapable of admitting one mistake.
Be honest about this and admit that you should have qualified your post.
I realise you still think missing such things is unimportant since you think people will fill in the blanks and know what you're on about anyway, but here's the thing: it matters, and matters greatly because when arguing a point as moronic as yours, you need to at the very least be able to hold on to that point rather than have someone like me rip you a new one because you are incapable of handling basic semantics.
Can you still not admit you were wrong? Grow up Odeon. You're just proving me right that you're too desperate to be right, and not wrong, rather than have the truth of your side.
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Just start a callout you two. :M
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One of the riskyest aspects of this is the precision.
If someone says 6 million jews died, someone else says 1,4 million jews died
1 400 000 people is a HUGE. FUCKING. LOT.
But to the deniers, it is the "proof they need" that there are LIES abound ">:O" and it's very difficult to say "YES, there may have been miscalculations, exaggerations, but look - we are even trying to remedy it by correcting memorial plaques!"
But manipulative minds will use this as a point of discredit "how could you have counted 5 million wrong? Maybe you counted another five million. Maybe WW2 CREATED 4,6 million jews!? :O"
It's the same in genetics research. For decades we have hammered down that ALL humans belong to the same species, that we are - intellectually, emotionally, physically, the same. There are differences, minute ones, but as recent science is beginning to categorize haplogroups and such, neo-nazis and other right-wing extremists launch themselves on it, and begin to present this information to fit their own agenda: "Look, SCIENCE says Humans and Niggers are separate creatures!"
and a scientist has no choice but to say "eh. yes. there is a registrable difference, but - "
"BUT NOTHING! NIGGER LOVER >: O"
I think roughly three million are accounted for, directly. It's a staggering number, as is 1.4 million. As is a thousand.
When I read Benji's posts, I'm struck by how he reacts on all the wrong things. It's the wrong number. You can get jailed by mentioning the wrong number. A witness is lying, got it wrong. Spielberg lied or contributed to a lie. Whatever.
He isn't denying it all outright but he is your typical average Holocaust denier nevertheless.
Tragic, that's what it is.
You're the one in denial. You don't find it repulsive that Speilberg paid people to lie, to create more sympathy for Jews, so Israel doesn't get criticized when it goes on another murderous rampage?
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Well that Zegh, but there are manipulative minds saying "SIX TRILLION JEWS" everywhere also. JEWS ARE AN UNDERCLASS IN ISRAEL, AND THE WORLD. THATS WHY WE NEED TO KILL THESE SANDNIGGERS. :dunno: :LOL: And then there is the white guilt narrative, and the fact that everyone is preciously oppressed in different levels by whiteness. (Even though Jewish and Chinese people came to America and achieved then exceeded average white accomplishment in a single generation. But you know, NIGGERS are different and held back by institutional racism and white privilege ITs okay, nigger. You're just a nigger *patpatpat*, you might as well not even work hard because evil whitey is going to keep you down whatever you do. He's smarter than you, and totally evil.
Fucking ridiculous. I am sick to death of all the lies.
I really grow weary of all the socio/political narratives, and I know you do too. You and I both know that this race shit is a trick, and the only difference between people is their individuality, which is also squashed by political and social narratives. :facepalm2:
Example:
*Every news channel is reporting the same thing, which later turns out to be false but that doesn't matter, because reality has already been changed*
Dumbass: *Turns on the tv, tunes in to the political ideologue hub of their choice, learns that a black kid got shot by a police officer. Knows absolutely nothing but the details they are spoonfed by the sexy action news team, each dripping with emotional falsehood. Becomes a champion of great justice, and logs in to fagbook to post five million statuses about what should or shouldn't happen.*
WTF are you on about? You don't make any sense whatsoever.
:headhurts: Odeon..
If he doesn't understand, it means you're the crazy idiot ;)
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Just start a callout you two. :M
I'll call you out in a minute :zoinks:
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Just get a bedroom you two. :M
fyp. 8)
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Just start a callout you two. :M
I'll call you out in a minute :zoinks:
You'd call me out over suggesting that you and Odeon should have a callout? :orly:
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Looking forward to series 5? :)
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Seriously? You waited three weeks to post THAT?
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Looking forward to series 5? :)
Of the best (running) show on TV?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs#ws)
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You know what I think is important?
Syria? HAHA no
Global energy needs? NO :'D
Holocaust re-count :M
We have't re-counted the death toll many enough times. We have to re-count it again.
IT HAZ TO BE FAIR >:'O
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Fair to whom?
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For the skinheads, who else?
Those poor people meet nothing but resistance. All they want is to kill everyone, but nobody wants to be killed to make them happy :'(
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For the skinheads, who else?
Those poor people meet nothing but resistance. All they want is to kill everyone, but nobody wants to be killed to make them happy :'(
Someone should send them a fruit basket to cheer them up a bit and to let them know we care :grouphug:
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For the skinheads, who else?
Those poor people meet nothing but resistance. All they want is to kill everyone, but nobody wants to be killed to make them happy :'(
I feel awful now. :'(
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It wouldn't matter if I was away an hour, 3 weeks, or 3 years. I don't spend the time i'm away thinking of what to post on this site, I come on when I feel like it. It's sweet that you think that though :hug:
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It wouldn't matter if I was away an hour, 3 weeks, or 3 years. I don't spend the time i'm away thinking of what to post on this site, I come on when I feel like it. It's sweet that you think that though :hug:
You're like a whale interrupting his song only to pick it up six months later. It seems to be OK for whales but for the rest of us, the world moves on.
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I'd agree with you if there was much activity on the site. But nevertheless, the truth won't go away. The truth is timeless :zoinks:
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The truth is timeless :zoinks:
"History is written by the victors"
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Yep. You'd think someone of his age would have learnt that by now.
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How would you know? You lose every argument you enter. :hahaha: