A cunning plan to get sex

[In The spaGhetto]

They were actually trying to change the rape laws here to include having sex with a drunk woman- if a woman's judgement can be impaired enough for her to not make a rational decision about having sex because she's been drinking, why doesn't the same go for men?  Don't beer goggles fit both sexes?

other things can be "impaired" on a man who's drunk too much being harassed by someone he considers unattractive that can reduce the likelihood of this situation

on a separate note:

Yes- but the fact is both male and female rape victims report feeling arousal despite the fact there were being raped.  But we're not taking about actual rape here- we talking about the suggested change to the law that would have meant that if a woman was consider to have been too drunk to give reasoned consent it could be considered rape.   Its not a case of being so drunk that you couldn't stop someone you didn't want to have sex with from having sex with you (if you didn't want it to happen or were passed out so weren't aware it was happening that is rape imo) , its about the murky issue of how drunk do you have to be for yes to not really mean yes.  If you're going to say that a woman could be too drunk to know what she was doing when she consented to sex than how can you not claim the same thing about men?

I agree, it's a ridiculous law.
Wouldn't it be the case that, even if you agree to sex you might not agree to sober, the actual sex also happens while you're drunk. it's not like you agree to it drunk, then have to go through with it while sober

[Calandale]

It's also not like a person doesn't
know (by a fairly early age) that
alcohol changes their views on
things. By CHOOSING to drink,
one might well be choosing to
circumvent their inhibitions.

[purposefulinsanity]

It's also not like a person doesn't
know (by a fairly early age) that
alcohol changes their views on
things. By CHOOSING to drink,
one might well be choosing to
circumvent their inhibitions.

Exactly- personal responsibility.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that getting wasted might mean you make some bad choices, People have to accept the bad choices they make when pissed and perhaps even accept that they got pissed so they could feel free to make those bad choices.

[In The spaGhetto]

true. but i suppose there's some circumstances where it would makes sense. say if there's like some almost unconscious girl at a party and a bloke woke her up and said come on upstairs and she drunkenly followed him and he shagged her without her really knowing what she was doing, she'd be within her rights to be pretty pissed off, and the bloke saying "well you shouldn't have got pissed then love" doesn't sound to me like it justifies it.

but if in a more typical situation where she's not as drunk then i agree it's a ridiculous rule. i think it's pretty hard to get the law on this right to be honest

[Calandale]

Okay, let's take your situation, but assume that
the male is somewhat inebriated, as well. In this
case, he's probably not fully in control of his faculties
either. It all becomes pretty damned tricky to judge.

Anyway, one thing which really bugs the crap out of
me, is that this kind of behavior is treated pretty much
the same as a violent rape, by some people. There is
a world of difference. I'm not sure that the penalty
should necessarily differ, but date-rape seems likely
to be a matter of sexual pressuring, whilst what I
would call rape proper is more of an act of pure
violence.

[Scrapheap]

[cartman] I know how to get free seemen, this guy who hangs out at the mini-mart gives it to you for free. You just close your eyes and suck it out of a straw[/cartman]

[In The spaGhetto]

Okay, let's take your situation, but assume that
the male is somewhat inebriated, as well. In this
case, he's probably not fully in control of his faculties
either. It all becomes pretty damned tricky to judge.

Anyway, one thing which really bugs the crap out of
me, is that this kind of behavior is treated pretty much
the same as a violent rape, by some people. There is
a world of difference. I'm not sure that the penalty
should necessarily differ, but date-rape seems likely
to be a matter of sexual pressuring, whilst what I
would call rape proper is more of an act of pure
violence.

yeah but in my situation that would be irrelevant because he's the one taking the initiative and taking her upstairs. He can't say "well - i was drunk, don't blame me".

If on the other hand it was completely the other way round and a girl took a semi unconscious man, ripped his clothes off etc then yeah the law should in theory be equal.

and that has happened - see this report:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1027927.ece

Woman convicted of rape

In a landmark case a 23-year-old woman has been convicted by a Bergen court for the rape of a 31-year-old man.

The woman was sentenced to nine months in prison and ordered to pay NOK 40,000 (USD 6,385) to the man.

The incident occurred on Jan. 4 last year in a Bergen apartment. The man testified that he fell asleep on a sofa and woke up to find the woman performing oral sex on him.

The woman eventually admitted sexual contact but claimed that it was voluntary and that the man was willing and smiled.

The case has attracted attention and is the first time a Norwegian woman has been charged with raping a man.

thing is a case like this kind of makes you laugh doesn't it? she must have been pretty fugly for him to sue like this

[purposefulinsanity]

true. but i suppose there's some circumstances where it would makes sense. say if there's like some almost unconscious girl at a party and a bloke woke her up and said come on upstairs and she drunkenly followed him and he shagged her without her really knowing what she was doing, she'd be within her rights to be pretty pissed off, and the bloke saying "well you shouldn't have got pissed then love" doesn't sound to me like it justifies it.

but if in a more typical situation where she's not as drunk then i agree it's a ridiculous rule. i think it's pretty hard to get the law on this right to be honest

Sure she'd have a right to be pissed off, but is it really rape? If she agreed to it at the time, despite being in a state, how is he to know that when sober she's going to have changed her mind? Even if he went for her because of the state she was in is it actually rape when she drunkenly consented? I'm not taking about someone not being in a fit state to say 'no' here, but someone agreeing to sex.

The question is really is there a difference between someone fucking someone who's in such a state because they chose to drink so much and fucking someone who's drink you've spiked without their consent?

[Calandale]

The question is really is there a difference between someone fucking someone who's in such a state because they chose to drink so much and fucking someone who's drink you've spiked without their consent?

Of course. But there's also the difference between taking
advantage of someone who is drunk, and plying them with
more drink, in the hopes of getting them so smashed that
they'll consent. And this is really where the problem comes.
I'd say the first is definitely a violation of the person's rights,
but the second is a MUCH fuzzier area.

[Scrapheap]

The question is really is there a difference between someone fucking someone who's in such a state because they chose to drink so much and fucking someone who's drink you've spiked without their consent?

Of course. But there's also the difference between taking
advantage of someone who is drunk, and plying them with
more drink, in the hopes of getting them so smashed that
they'll consent. And this is really where the problem comes.
I'd say the first is definitely a violation of the person's rights,
but the second is a MUCH fuzzier area.

Reality rarely comes in black and white.

[McGiver]

Okay, let's take your situation, but assume that
the male is somewhat inebriated, as well. In this
case, he's probably not fully in control of his faculties
either. It all becomes pretty damned tricky to judge.

Anyway, one thing which really bugs the crap out of
me, is that this kind of behavior is treated pretty much
the same as a violent rape, by some people. There is
a world of difference. I'm not sure that the penalty
should necessarily differ, but date-rape seems likely
to be a matter of sexual pressuring, whilst what I
would call rape proper is more of an act of pure
violence.

yeah but in my situation that would be irrelevant because he's the one taking the initiative and taking her upstairs. He can't say "well - i was drunk, don't blame me".

If on the other hand it was completely the other way round and a girl took a semi unconscious man, ripped his clothes off etc then yeah the law should in theory be equal.

and that has happened - see this report:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1027927.ece

Woman convicted of rape

In a landmark case a 23-year-old woman has been convicted by a Bergen court for the rape of a 31-year-old man.

The woman was sentenced to nine months in prison and ordered to pay NOK 40,000 (USD 6,385) to the man.

The incident occurred on Jan. 4 last year in a Bergen apartment. The man testified that he fell asleep on a sofa and woke up to find the woman performing oral sex on him.

The woman eventually admitted sexual contact but claimed that it was voluntary and that the man was willing and smiled.

The case has attracted attention and is the first time a Norwegian woman has been charged with raping a man.

thing is a case like this kind of makes you laugh doesn't it? she must have been pretty fugly for him to sue like this

interesting that this even has to be a landmark decision.
how long  and how many men have been falsely accused of rape.  and finally a women gets convicted of this.

[McGiver]

what i mean is....do i lose my ability to make the general claim that only men are accused and convicted of rape?

[In The spaGhetto]

this is just one thing that happened in norway a couple of years ago so i guess you still can.

there might be a few others but not many.

but i don't really think it's a cause worth getting het up about. tbh there's not enough women trying to sexually harass me

[McGiver]

this is just one thing that happened in norway a couple of years ago so i guess you still can.

there might be a few others but not many.

but i don't really think it's a cause worth getting het up about. tbh there's not enough women trying to sexually harass me

i believe that by the definition of sex that i was raped several times.

but it doesn't count because i was aroused.

[Calandale]

this is just one thing that happened in norway a couple of years ago so i guess you still can.

there might be a few others but not many.

but i don't really think it's a cause worth getting het up about. tbh there's not enough women trying to sexually harass me

i believe that by the definition of sex that i was raped several times.

but it doesn't count because i was aroused.

I think that I've probably managed to rape myself then.