religious freedom Vs ...everyone else's freedom

[odeon]

I've been reading about that christian slag who's been fired from Macy's for refusing to let a trans woman use the women's changing rooms.

Apparently it is Macy's policy to let trans people use whichever one they identify as, but this woman thinks it violates her religious freedom, as apparently transgendered people don't exist lol

So what do you guys think? Should she have been fired? Should the store's policy be different? etc etc

I wonder what that religion is... Pretty sure none of the major religions discuss transgendered people's re changing rooms in a single holy text.

[odeon]

What would her plan be, to get everyone to pull down their panties so she could check out their equipment?

Here's a job to volunteer for.

[Squidusa]

But IMO I think the transperson in question should actually sue the ex-employee for her words.

You can't do that here and it's a damn good thing you can't. That would establish a horrible legal precedent that you could sue people for butthurt. 

Saying nasty things is different to discriminatory speech and actions. (I meant to put actions rather than words my bad)

I mean let's swap this around , if the MTF was a black woman and not a transperson , and the employee tried to stop her going in there , there would be IMMENSE uproar , and I'm pretty sure legal proceedings would have taken place against the employee

[Scrapheap]

Scrap I agree with u about freedom of speech, but in certain positions you've got to put on an act - a polite act - whether u like it or not. and being an employee in a shop is one of those times. Shopworkers SHOULD get in trouble for being rude to a customer like that.

Yes, she did get in trouble, and rightfully so, she got fired and probably deserved more, but you don't get the law involved over butthurt.

[Adam]

I wouldn't get the law involved, no. Although if someone else did, I'd laugh and enjoy it if she got any kind of legal punishment

and yeh squiddy, there'd be uproar if this was racism. or intolerance of someone's religion, for that matter

[Scrapheap]

But IMO I think the transperson in question should actually sue the ex-employee for her words.

You can't do that here and it's a damn good thing you can't. That would establish a horrible legal precedent that you could sue people for butthurt. 

Saying nasty things is different to discriminatory speech and actions. (I meant to put actions rather than words my bad)

Fair enough on the point about discriminatory actions. If you BEHAVE in a bigoted manner, then that has consequences and is rightfully against the law.

Discriminatory speech, on the other hand, is a slippery slope that you don't want to go down. Listen to the youtube link I posted, if you haven't already. Hitchens uses the case of a British historian who was jailed in Austria over the POSSIBILITY that he would violate their speech laws concerning the Holocaust.

As dusgusting as hate speech is, you don't want to make it into a Thought Crime. 

[Adam]

was that david irving? holocaust denier?

while irving is a ffucking lowlife scumbag, and holocaust denial is bullshit, I agree that the idea of locking someone up for having fucked up OPINIONS or beliefs is ridiculous

[Scrapheap]

was that david irving? holocaust denier?

while irving is a ffucking lowlife scumbag, and holocaust denial is bullshit, I agree that the idea of locking someone up for having fucked up OPINIONS or beliefs is ridiculous

Yes it was David Irving. Even though his holocause denial books are bullshit, his other books about the Nazis are historically accurate.

[Calavera]

was that david irving? holocaust denier?

while irving is a ffucking lowlife scumbag, and holocaust denial is bullshit, I agree that the idea of locking someone up for having fucked up OPINIONS or beliefs is ridiculous

While I'm with you that people shouldn't be locked up just because they have a fucked up opinion on something, I can empathize with that law in some countries.

The Holocaust is relatively recent. There are people who have been affected by it who are still alive.

[Scrapheap]

was that david irving? holocaust denier?

while irving is a ffucking lowlife scumbag, and holocaust denial is bullshit, I agree that the idea of locking someone up for having fucked up OPINIONS or beliefs is ridiculous

While I'm with you that people shouldn't be locked up just because they have a fucked up opinion on something, I can empathize with that law in some countries.

The Holocaust is relatively recent. There are people who have been affected by it who are still alive.

That's neither here nor there. David Irving should still has a right to voice his opinions, as poisonous as some may find them. Instead he spent time in Austrian prison for what amounted to thoughtcrime.

[Parts]

Those people seem to be everywhere. 

[McGiver]

She should have simply turned the other cheek.
Jesus would have.

The main reason why I no longer follow Christianity is their hatred of gay people, Muslims, democrats, school lunches, puppies and spring.

Christianity is an excuse to hate.

['Butterflies']

was that david irving? holocaust denier?

while irving is a ffucking lowlife scumbag, and holocaust denial is bullshit, I agree that the idea of locking someone up for having fucked up OPINIONS or beliefs is ridiculous

While I'm with you that people shouldn't be locked up just because they have a fucked up opinion on something, I can empathize with that law in some countries.

The Holocaust is relatively recent. There are people who have been affected by it who are still alive.

That's neither here nor there. David Irving should still has a right to voice his opinions, as poisonous as some may find them. Instead he spent time in Austrian prison for what amounted to thoughtcrime.

I agree with this. Locking him up makes him a martyr to his supporters. By silencing him, it allows his supporters to claim that the authorities are hiding the truth.

The best way to deal with people like that is to let them speak, and to disprove his claims.

[bodie]

I only just saw this thread

Yes what a silly cow.  Glad she was sacked.  I don't think it would be easy to take it further.  It would require the name and address of the employee and that is confidential information.   I think if the store had done nothing about it then there must be some way of forcing them to disclose...but not sure how.

Not all changing rooms have curtains though.  I am not bothered either way.  As a customer i wouldn't complain if i thought there was a trans person in there.  TBH people rarely are looking at anyone else,  it's a functional thing,  just get the job done,  does it fucking fit? Sweet i am out of there.   If anyone was looking at me in a changing room,  regardless of what sex they were i would likely ask "what the fuck are you looking at?" if i was in a bit of a bad mood.  If i was feeling playful i would probably say something a bit tongue in cheek like  "what do you reckon then? the black one? or the blue?"


What would be fun would be to set the silly cow up?  I mean get a real biological female, perhaps a bit masculine in looks, to go in there and then when the assistant approached 

[matthe]

<heads to nearest macys wearing a dress with a spycam attached to shoes>