INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Peter on November 26, 2007, 09:25:01 PM
-
Teacher held for teddy bear 'blasphemy'
By Terri Judd
Published: 27 November 2007
A British primary school teacher in Sudan is facing 40 lashes and up to a year in jail for allowing her pupils to name a teddy bear after the Prophet Mohamed. Gillian Gibbons has been imprisoned under strict blasphemy laws for showing "contempt and disrespect against the believers".
Colleagues of Ms Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, claim she made an "innocent mistake" by allowing her class of seven year-olds to choose the name. But she was accused of insulting Islam's holiest prophet and arrested. Her actions have sparked protests in Sudan and forced the school to close until January for fear of reprisals.
Ms Gibbons' friends and colleagues said any suggestion that she would have intentionally caused offence was ridiculous.
She is being held at a police station in the Sudanese capital, Khartoum. She was said to be in good health but shaken when British embassy officials visited her yesterday. The Foreign Office said she had not been charged but detained on suspicion of the crime.
Ms Gibbons had been working at Unity High School, which is popular with wealthy Sudanese and expatriates, since August after leaving her position as deputy head at Dovecot Primary School in Liverpool.
She was taken from her home in the school grounds on Sunday after several parents complained to the Education Ministry.
The school's director, Robert Boulos, said it was such a sensitive issue that he had decided to close the school until January for fear of reprisals in Sudan's predominantly Muslim capital. "We are very worried about her safety," he added. "This was a completely innocent mistake. Ms Gibbons would have never wanted to insult Islam."
The teacher was following a British national curriculum course designed to teach her Year 2 pupils about animals and their habitats. In September, she asked a girl to bring her teddy bear into class so that the children could name the stuffed toy.
Eight names were suggested so, in an attempt to teach the pupils about voting, she held a ballot. Twenty of 23 children chose the name Mohamed. Each child was then allowed to take the bear home at weekends and asked to write a diary about what they did with the toy. Each entry was collected in a book which bore a picture of the bear and the words "My name is Mohamed". Police have confiscated the diary and plan to interview the girl who owned the bear.
The state-controlled Sudanese Media Centre said Ms Gibbons was arrested "under article 125 of the criminal law", on suspicion of insulting faith and religion.
Mr Boulos said the first he knew about the course was last week when he received a phone call from the Education Ministry to say that some Muslim parents had made formal complaints.
One teacher said: "I had no problem with it at all. I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed she got them to vote." Another source said it was believed that a teacher with a grudge against Ms Gibbons brought the case to a head.
The teacher's friends said she decided to take up the challenge of working in east Africa after separating from her husband of 20 years. She planned to spend two years in Sudan and was finding the work rewarding.
Unity, founded in 1902, is an independent school for Christian and Muslim children aged four to 18 and is governed by a board representing major Christian denominations in Sudan. It prides itself on providing a British-style education to students, whatever their gender, nationality, religion or ethnic origin, "whilst encouraging mutual respect". Ms Gibbons is one of several Western teachers who work there.
She has two children Jessica, 27 – also a teacher – and John, 25, and used to live in Aigburth, Liverpool. Her former neighbour Peter Sorensen, 64, described her as a normal working mother who was a wonderful neighbour and "would not hurt a fly".
"We are very worried about the kind of conditions she is subjected to. Being held in police cell in Khartoum must be an horrendous experience," he added.
-
Seriously, don't these people have something better to do? Like kill black Africans or something? Or possibly build some infrastructure to bootstrap their shit-hole of a country out of the stone age?
-
This sort of thing is far easier even clerics can do it ::)
-
OMG.
how can people be that crazy? what is wrong with them? or the world?
-
Seriously, don't atheists have something better to do? Like kill local Christians or something? Or possibly build some barrier to deflect any monotheistic-related bollocks from stone age countries so they can shut the fuck up and move on with their lives?
Fixed.
-
Seriously, don't atheists have something better to do? Like kill local Christians or something? Or possibly build some barrier to deflect any monotheistic-related bollocks from stone age countries so they can shut the fuck up and move on with their lives?
Fixed.
Maybe you'd like to do some volunteer work over there?
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
One teacher said: "I had no problem with it at all. I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed she got them to vote." Another source said it was believed that a teacher with a grudge against Ms Gibbons brought the case to a head.
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
One teacher said: "I had no problem with it at all. I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed she got them to vote." Another source said it was believed that a teacher with a grudge against Ms Gibbons brought the case to a head.
I never said or thought that every Muslim is like that, but enough are for shit like this to happen on a very regular basis. I also didn't see any mention of teachers holding grudges in the article; it was the parents of the kids who contacted the authorities when the kids took the teddy home with them, and the fucked-up authorities are fucked up in large part because of the fundamentalist views that so many of their members hold.
-
Seriously, don't atheists have something better to do? Like kill local Christians or something? Or possibly build some barrier to deflect any monotheistic-related bollocks from stone age countries so they can shut the fuck up and move on with their lives?
Fixed.
Maybe you'd like to do some volunteer work over there?
Maybe you'd like to tag along?
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
One teacher said: "I had no problem with it at all. I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed she got them to vote." Another source said it was believed that a teacher with a grudge against Ms Gibbons brought the case to a head.
I never said or thought that every Muslim is like that, but enough are for shit like this to happen on a very regular basis. I also didn't see any mention of teachers holding grudges in the article; it was the parents of the kids who contacted the authorities when the kids took the teddy home with them, and the fucked-up authorities are fucked up in large part because of the fundamentalist views that so many of their members hold.
1/ Your subject line suggests the opposite: "Muslims get their frilly panties in a twist once again" is a generalisation if I ever heard one, and derogatory at that. I think your intentions here are obvious even to the casual reader.
2/ The quote I supplied was from your article. I suggest you read the article again.
I think your opinions regarding Muslims in general should be perfectly clear to anyone here.
-
Mohammed's entire legitimacy lies in that he claims a Christian Monk spotted the sign of the prophet on his back between the shoulderblades. Anyone who has read the Bible (both Christian and Jewish versions) know that some mark of the prophet is a load of shit. So basically their prophet's entire legitimacy is crap.
-
And this is relevant because...?
-
And this is relevant because...?
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
-
:laugh:
i really don't know how we can determine one prophet is false and another isn't. it's a question of faith, not just evidence.
-
I am the true prophet.
Do what I say.
-
i am the true prophet.
hop on one leg.
-
Your left or right one?
-
why do you wanna hop on my leg? :P
-
You told me to.
-
it could have been anyone's leg.
-
And this is relevant because...?
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise. I'd encourage you to discuss your views with a representative of the Muslim population, however. Maybe they have the patience to explain the finer points to you.
-
it could have been anyone's leg.
But I want yours.
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
One teacher said: "I had no problem with it at all. I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed she got them to vote." Another source said it was believed that a teacher with a grudge against Ms Gibbons brought the case to a head.
I never said or thought that every Muslim is like that, but enough are for shit like this to happen on a very regular basis. I also didn't see any mention of teachers holding grudges in the article; it was the parents of the kids who contacted the authorities when the kids took the teddy home with them, and the fucked-up authorities are fucked up in large part because of the fundamentalist views that so many of their members hold.
It's in Odeon's quote in your post, Peter. I highlighted it in green for you.
-
I am the true prophet.
Do what I say.
Dictate it to me so I can transcribe it in a book and start a new religion and get people to pay us a tithe. I am sure it will make as much sense as any other :laugh:
-
And this is relevant because...?
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise. I'd encourage you to discuss your views with a representative of the Muslim population, however. Maybe they have the patience to explain the finer points to you.
Lucky for me, as I wouldn't want the burden of naming some psychopath like Mohammed as a prophet (he was a military leader that killed many people and screwed 12 year old girls lol). The legitimacy that he claims to have is based on a Christian Monk, and that type of symbol has NEVER been associated with a prophet in Judeo-Christian history (Abrahamic lineage). That makes it bullshit. I have talked to Muslims before, and there really isn't anything to prove and no evidence (other than his supposed ascension in front of 400 people) that makes Mohammed special.
-
So what you're saying is that you aren't converting to Islam right now?
-
So what you're saying is that you aren't converting to Islam right now?
Pretty much, or any religion period.
I say they have no right to get pissed over some people making likenesses of their supposed prophet. It only says you aren't supposed to worship idols of Mohammed, nothing about making jokes about him though haha. Seriously, Muslims need to GTFO and STFU with their bitching.
-
So go on and tell them.
-
So go on and tell them.
They will just respond with their regular killing for the most part. If a Muslim killed me for saying that, then it proves that they are indeed violent people. Any time someone tries to set a religious person straight, they get angry. Muslims actually kill people, but I refuse to be scared when I know they are wrong. Fuck them, really. The only effort they are worth is some trolling on a Muslim message board.
-
It would prove that you insulted a person who then overreacted. You need to work on your logic.
-
It would prove that you insulted a person who then overreacted. You need to work on your logic.
I insulted their religion, not them personally. I insult those who overrreact specifically to the image of Mohammed being used. They have people who fucking name themselves Mohammed, and dress and have a beard. They practically imitate the guy, yet naming a stuffed animal that is wrong.
The problem is that every time something like that comes up, we have an overreaction.
-
You need to read up on Islam, and you need to get your facts straight. If you don't understand why some Muslims react the way they do, you're not helping anything.
-
You need to read up on Islam, and you need to get your facts straight. If you don't understand why some Muslims react the way they do, you're not helping anything.
I understand, and their reasoning is based on false pretenses. Its like a Christian getting mad at Penny Arcade (or South Park) for making fun of Jesus, they sure as hell don't kill anyone over it. Mohammed has had nothing done to his image that compares to what we do to our own religious figures. I have read up on Islam, all you can say is get your facts straight over things when people have a point and you have none of your own.
-
You're arguing on beliefs, on behalf of some Christian interpretations of Islam, and yes, some of them say Islam's based on false pretenses. Muhammed is a false prophet, according to some, and he is found in the eight circle of hell by Dante, etc, etc, etc.
What makes you think that these mainly Christian views (some are Jewish, though, as I recall it) are more correct than the Islam ones? Here's an argument (http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1177156115162&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam%2FDIELayout) made by an Imam in reply to a Catholic who doesn't believe in Muhammed as a prophet. I'm not saying that the Imam is right, only that he uses an other set of beliefs than you use, for proving his point.
That's what religions are about, see. Beliefs. You choose to accept some and reject others. Your call. But don't assume that anyone will hail your opinions as informed, when you also use the kind of rhetorics that are usually found on extremist websites. For as long as you do so, I, for one, have great difficulty in taking you seriously.
Only by understanding why some Muslims react so strongly against depicting their Prophet on cartoons or teddy bears can you ever hope to change anything. And I'm not saying that I agree with them, because I don't. Arresting a middle-aged schoolteacher who happened to name a teddy bear Muhammed is ridiculous but insulting the part of the Muslim population (by insulting their religion; this you also need to understand) will not help. Quite the opposite.
-
That is about his revelations being from Satan or God. Since both do not exist, it doesn't matter anyways. It has nothing to do with the claimed symbol on his back that supposedly marks him as a prophet and gives his revelations some kind of legitimacy. My feeling is that he was a power hungry military warmonger (his actions in how he killed people prove this) that made up an additional religion devoted to the already over-worshipped Abrahamic God in order to give his reign more legitimacy and to unify the people he basically conquered. In my opinion to be a prophet you either are A. Insane or B. Knowingly deceiving people by using religion to suit your own agenda.
-
Can you prove that he knowingly deceived people? Your feelings are one thing, proving something is another. This is about beliefs, which is why your opinions are just that, opinions. Mine are too, obviously, but we differ in that I don't have to insult a whole group of people to support my opinions.
I doubt we'll get any further, here, so you go right on with your stuff and I'll spend time finding a worthwhile thread to spam.
-
I prefaced the sentence with "In my opinion", so it isn't a fact lol. Of course no person can prove the thoughts of Mohammed as he deceived his people. His deception could have just been due to him being insane. I think Paul was insane. Caligula might be the most insane historical figure imo.
The fact is that Muhammed/Mohammed/whatever didn't want images of him to be worshipped. That was just a bear lol. Muhammad Ali named himself after the prophet (same with many other people), when he was celebrated as a boxer then he would have been just as bad as a fucking bear being named that. I know that is some kind of tribute, naming yourself after a prophet who doesn't want you to worship visual images of him. Fucking retarded.
-
The British should demand her safe release whilst telling Sudan to shove its laws up its ass. If they find whip scars on her when they get her back, they should bomb the shit out of that place. (If they insist on living in the dark ages, might as well complete the effect.)
(http://www.portcityunderground.com/images/osama_dogshit-1.jpg)
-
At least some sane Muslims are trying to get through to the mediaeval meatbrains. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7119346,00.html)
British Muslims protested outside the Sudanese Embassy over the treatment of jailed teacher Gillian Gibbons.
The small but noisy group demanded the immediate release of Mrs Gibbons, who is currently serving a 15-day prison sentence in Sudan after her class of seven-year-olds named a teddy bear Mohammed.
Chanting "free, free Gillian" and "let her go, let her go", demonstrators attempted to hand over a "goodwill teddy" to the embassy, but a staff member refused to accept the gift.
If they carry on like this the miserable fuckers will go on Santa's 'naughty' list.
-
i dont know why people even go into muslim countries who arent muslim. thats just asking for it
-
In college I had a friend from Saudi Arabia even he never wanted to go back
-
i heard they cut off your hands and still stone people for sins. thats enough to keep me far away from muslims countrys, could you imagine being framed for a crime you didnt commit? orbeing accused of something you didnt do. i bet there justice system is totally unfair and jugdes people based on the koran
-
i dont know why people even go into muslim countries who arent muslim. thats just asking for it
the point is potent in its simplicity.
-
i heard they cut off your hands and still stone people for sins. thats enough to keep me far away from muslims countrys, could you imagine being framed for a crime you didnt commit? orbeing accused of something you didnt do. i bet there justice system is totally unfair and jugdes people based on the koran
Not only do they stone people, but they now hold up their camera phones and video the whole thing. Just last April, a bunch of Yezidi (Iraq's answer to the Amish) dragged a 17 year old girl out into the street half-naked, stoned her, and then stomped her to death... all for dating a Sunni Muslim boy. They made the mistake of taking video with their cellphones and posting it on the Internet, and deservedly became the most hated people in the world. As far as I'm concerned, they deserved the truck-bombing they got a few months later that killed about 300. And to think shit like that goes on all the time there and has been going on all the time for centuries.
In Iran, a similar crowd gathered to see some dude get whipped 80 times for drinking. Again, out with the cellphones to record the whole scene. Those motherfuckers must all be sick to call that entertainment. Why else would they want to save a video of it? So they can watch somebody being maimed or killed over and over again? Do they really enjoy watching others suffer that much?
And then there's female "circumcision", which is even more fucked up.
-
indeed, i don't understand people who go to muslim countries. then complain when shit happens. wtf?
-
there's no way in hell i'd go there. i'd get hanged or something :P
-
In Iran, a similar crowd gathered to see some dude get whipped 80 times for drinking.
wow, thats increadibly fucked up. i drink almost everynite and if i was in a muslim country i'd be whipped every day :laugh: :-[
-
In Iran, a similar crowd gathered to see some dude get whipped 80 times for drinking.
wow, thats increadibly fucked up. i drink almost everynite and if i was in a muslim country i'd be whipped every day :laugh: :-[
That the reason the guy I knew from Saudi Arabia didn't want to go back :laugh:
-
islam is such a discusting religion
-
"In Iran, a married woman who is raped risks the death penalty for adultery if she cannot prove she was violated."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4172551.stm
how fucked up is that?
-
islam is such a discusting religion
Most religions are when taken to the extreme
-
trés fucked up a lá dark ages.
-
islam is such a discusting religion
Most religions are when taken to the extreme
i guess your right
-
islam is such a discusting religion
Most religions are when taken to the extreme
i guess your right
One good reason to keep a watchful eye on the religious right here in the US. They'd be doing the same shit if they could.
-
yep, im shure if it wasnt for our constitution and bill of rights everyone would be forced to go to church and have horrible things happen to them if they disobeyd the bible
-
yep, im shure if it wasnt for our constitution and bill of rights everyone would be forced to go to church and have horrible things happen to them if they disobeyd the bible
Yes it would be time to move or start a revolution
-
evangelical christians suck
-
religious assholes suck.
-
I can think of only two religions that haven't killed anybody yet...
(http://subgenius.com/Graffix/dobbs.jpg) (http://www.venganza.org/images/th_FSM3d.jpg)
It'd be fun to capture all the fundyfucks of both Christianity and Islam, and force them to convert to something else, their only choices being SubGenius or FSM.
-
i'd choose FSM anytime. i won't betray thee lord!
-
There are things to be respected about Islam.
Like, they're tremendous ability to take a joke. :wanker:
-
lol.
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
One teacher said: "I had no problem with it at all. I know Gillian and she would never have meant it as an insult. I was just impressed she got them to vote." Another source said it was believed that a teacher with a grudge against Ms Gibbons brought the case to a head.
It is not just the authorities, there were popular protests calling for the woman's punishment for defaming Islam (along with popular protests and riots after those Scandinavian newspapers published cartoons of Muhammad), odd since the Muslims protesting are willing to name their sons Muhammad. Contrast that with Protestants who refrain from naming their sons Jesus.
-
i'd name my teddy Jesus. Teddy Bears do no evil.
-
And this is relevant because...?
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise. I'd encourage you to discuss your views with a representative of the Muslim population, however. Maybe they have the patience to explain the finer points to you.
Lucky for me, as I wouldn't want the burden of naming some psychopath like Mohammed as a prophet (he was a military leader that killed many people and screwed 12 year old girls lol). The legitimacy that he claims to have is based on a Christian Monk, and that type of symbol has NEVER been associated with a prophet in Judeo-Christian history (Abrahamic lineage). That makes it bullshit. I have talked to Muslims before, and there really isn't anything to prove and no evidence (other than his supposed ascension in front of 400 people) that makes Mohammed special.
I'm sorry but I have to say that Mohammed was a great man, maybe a bit of a loony but he was a good person. The thing that made Mohammed special was that he, of all people, became a great religious leader and the founder of a world religion (and he talked with an angel).
Muhammed did many great things for female and female rights, altough today it might not seem like he did much for women but before Muhammed showed up people would marry up to 20 women and didn't really care for them. Muhammed made a law that said that if you can treat your women equally and care for them all they can marry up to 3 women. But then they most have the money to support them, give dem clothing and food and all that.
The thing with Islam is that it, just like many other religions, believe in gender roles, men should be out and work while the woman take care of the home, but it is allowed for a female to work as long as she does her duties at home.
Both women and men are incouraged to study.
Since the female role is in the home, she is mostly economically dependent on the male persons in her family or her husbands family but if she works her money belongs to her but only to her. No one can take that away from her and she doesn't have to care economically for her children.
In the Qu'ran both male and females should dress respectable infront of God.
Even though it's preferable for a women to be a virgin before she marries, it's just because there is a rule that only pure men and women can marry each other. They basicly share the thought of many christians that thinks it's a sacred thing. Now stop being so prejudiced against Islam and muslims.
Oh, and by the way, the muslims I know are the most kind, caring and generous people of everyone I know, and without them I would be lost and probably depressed. They have done so much for me and they have welcomed me even though I'm not religious and my slutty reputation. They even welcomed my homosexual friend.
-
Good post, Fruitcake. +
And I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with fucking people for the sake of sex.
-
I have no problem with peoples religious or moral beliefs as long as they don't try to make me believe in the same thing. Unfortunately I've met many christians that tries to convert me but muslims have just accepted me for who I am even though they find it odd that I don't believe in a God.
-
There are things to be respected about Islam.
Like, they're tremendous ability to take a joke. :wanker:
:laugh:
-
If they were smart, they'd start worshiping the damned teddy bear. Teddy bears don't incite people to perform executions based on the name someone gives a teddy bear. Teddy bears just sit and be cute.
-
If they were smart, they'd start worshiping the damned teddy bear. Teddy bears don't incite people to perform executions based on the name someone gives a teddy bear. Teddy bears just sit and be cute.
You don't know the right Teddy bear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyT733M7w3g
-
I prefer the teddy bears I know.
-
Those muslims that I've known in the US
(other than the Nation of Islam type, which
WAS the most common once), tend to be
very reasonable people. I think this comes from
being in a minority which is so small, and on the
edge, however. ANY group of like people, when
they begin to operate primarily in their own communities,
seems to become very close minded, insular, and
completely unforgiving of those who differ.
Humans are herd animals.
-
If they were smart, they'd start worshiping the damned teddy bear. Teddy bears don't incite people to perform executions based on the name someone gives a teddy bear. Teddy bears just sit and be cute.
i've worshipped teddies since i was a kid. i had a ton of teddies and plushies and couldn't even breathe through my nose. :P i still have the elite group with me that i carry around. when i packed to move to Ireland i tossed my teddies in the suitcase and my computer. lol that's like my most important posessions.
teddies are always nice and never judge. :)
-
Those muslims that I've known in the US
(other than the Nation of Islam type, which
WAS the most common once), tend to be
very reasonable people. I think this comes from
being in a minority which is so small, and on the
edge, however. ANY group of like people, when
they begin to operate primarily in their own communities,
seems to become very close minded, insular, and
completely unforgiving of those who differ.
Humans are herd animals.
:agreed:
-
Like I said before in the extreme all religions tend to get wacky I have met both in Muslims they are people too and run the full spectrum of some real nut jobs who I am sure are on the terrorist watch lists to just the regular guy who you would not mind as a neighbor. The problem in many of the Muslim countries is they have no exposer to anything but the hard liners who like their positions of power and do almost anything to keep them
-
Like I said before in the extreme all religions tend to get wacky I have met both in Muslims they are people too and run the full spectrum of some real nut jobs who I am sure are on the terrorist watch lists to just the regular guy who you would not mind as a neighbor. The problem in many of the Muslim countries is they have no exposer to anything but the hard liners who like their positions of power and do almost anything to keep them
Terrorists ain't muslims, what they are doing is violating the Qu'ran (even though they usually claim it's their Jihad, but the big Jihad is the fight within yourself). Problem is that most people don't see that.
-
christians usually get it wrong too. bible itself was altered by people and misinterpreted.
-
Like I said before in the extreme all religions tend to get wacky I have met both in Muslims they are people too and run the full spectrum of some real nut jobs who I am sure are on the terrorist watch lists to just the regular guy who you would not mind as a neighbor. The problem in many of the Muslim countries is they have no exposer to anything but the hard liners who like their positions of power and do almost anything to keep them
Terrorists ain't muslims, what they are doing is violating the Qu'ran (even though they usually claim it's their Jihad, but the big Jihad is the fight within yourself). Problem is that most people don't see that.
That's what I mean they are like everybody else and in this world there is no shortage of crazies of all persuasions
-
I'm sorry but I have to say that Mohammed was a great man, maybe a bit of a loony but he was a good person. The thing that made Mohammed special was that he, of all people, became a great religious leader and the founder of a world religion (and he talked with an angel).
Muhammed did many great things for female and female rights, altough today it might not seem like he did much for women but before Muhammed showed up people would marry up to 20 women and didn't really care for them. Muhammed made a law that said that if you can treat your women equally and care for them all they can marry up to 3 women. But then they most have the money to support them, give dem clothing and food and all that.
The thing with Islam is that it, just like many other religions, believe in gender roles, men should be out and work while the woman take care of the home, but it is allowed for a female to work as long as she does her duties at home.
Both women and men are incouraged to study.
Since the female role is in the home, she is mostly economically dependent on the male persons in her family or her husbands family but if she works her money belongs to her but only to her. No one can take that away from her and she doesn't have to care economically for her children.
In the Qu'ran both male and females should dress respectable infront of God.
Even though it's preferable for a women to be a virgin before she marries, it's just because there is a rule that only pure men and women can marry each other. They basicly share the thought of many christians that thinks it's a sacred thing. Now stop being so prejudiced against Islam and muslims.
Oh, and by the way, the muslims I know are the most kind, caring and generous people of everyone I know, and without them I would be lost and probably depressed. They have done so much for me and they have welcomed me even though I'm not religious and my slutty reputation. They even welcomed my homosexual friend.
I know several people that are Muslims (one atheist who doesn't follow Islam anymore as well) and they are all good people. That doesn't mean Muhammed was a great guy. There were a few societies back then that weren't into polygamy at all, nevermind the practice of having 20 wives and such. He explicity advocates beating your wife if she does not obey you, I don't see how that is good for women's rights. Muhammed is just as bad as the other Abrahamic religions in that he makes women out to be objects owned by their husbands with very little rights beyond those given to a pet.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm
The man made conquests and was successful militarily in causing many deaths. He is known to have slept with girls as young as 9 years old (married her at 6 or 7 and consumated the marriage at age 9 lol)..... Him talking to an angel is delusion and laughable at best. Muhammed also makes Polygamy legal and women out to be objects that are pretty much owned by their husbands. Secular law in western countries do not recognize polygamous marriages, but it is legal in all but 2 Muslim nations for polgamy to exist. While it limits polygamy, it explicitly states that it should exist as well. I do like the fact that is says the husband should pay equal attention to each wife though.
-
I know several people that are Muslims (one atheist who doesn't follow Islam anymore as well) and they are all good people. That doesn't mean Muhammed was a great guy. There were a few societies back then that weren't into polygamy at all, nevermind the practice of having 20 wives and such. He explicity advocates beating your wife if she does not obey you, I don't see how that is good for women's rights. Muhammed is just as bad as the other Abrahamic religions in that he makes women out to be objects owned by their husbands with very little rights beyond those given to a pet.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/wife-beating.htm
The man made conquests and was successful militarily in causing many deaths. He is known to have slept with girls as young as 9 years old (married her at 6 or 7 and consumated the marriage at age 9 lol)..... Him talking to an angel is delusion and laughable at best. Muhammed also makes Polygamy legal and women out to be objects that are pretty much owned by their husbands. Secular law in western countries do not recognize polygamous marriages, but it is legal in all but 2 Muslim nations for polgamy to exist. While it limits polygamy, it explicitly states that it should exist as well. I do like the fact that is says the husband should pay equal attention to each wife though.
Of course there were a few societes back then that weren't into polygamy, but must of them where. There is no real evidence of him having sex with her when she was 9 since many say that they didn't consumate til' she was 18 (my personal belief is that they consumated after she had her first period in accordance to the Qu'ran), and marriage/being promised to marriage in that young age was very common (and is still common in some countries), it doesn't really prove a thing except him following the customs at that time. He did a lot for women BACK THEN, of course that is not how you can see it nowadays. Polygamy was legal before Muhammed even was born! And the whole thing with muslim countries... Well I don't think it's relevant to Muhammed. The Qu'ran states that women and men should decide together, and it also says this:
O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good. (4:19)
O mankind! Reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from this pair scattered (like seeds) countless men and women. Reverence Allah, through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and reverence the wombs (that bore you); for Allah ever watches over you. (4:1)
Do not prevent them from marrying their husbands when they agree between themselves in a lawful manner. (2:232)
Muhammed revoked the marriage of him and a women because she said that her father forced her into it saying: “The widow and the divorced woman shall not be married until she has consented and the virgin shall not be married until her consent is obtained.â€.
Islam was the first to let married women have their own property, as stated before the money the female earns is entirely hers to spend and she has no obligations for her family in that matter. In Britain, perhaps the first country to give women some property rights, laws were passed in the 1860’s known as “Married Women Property Act.†In Germany i.e. this conception has been responsible for denying the wife any control over her property until 1922 by civil law.
Women shall, in all fairness, enjoy rights equal to those exercised against them. 2:228
About the whole honour murders, it's kinda hard to find 4 witnessess and death penalties isn't talked about;
Those who accuse married women of adultery, then fail to produce four witnesses, you shall whip them eighty lashes, and do not accept any testimony from them; they are wicked. 24:2-4:
And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death comes close to them or God opens some way for them. 4:15
“Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.â€
In another translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) do not share their beds, (and last) beat (tap) them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance): for Allah is Most High, Great (above you all). 4:34-35
But still the wife has the right to leave him. Muhammed didn't beat his wives and in fact he discouraged people from doing so, he even advised girls not to marry men that had a reputation of beating their wives.
The whole vision things, it might be possible that he had schizofrenia, I don't know. Probably not possible that it was a real angel, but still something even I could get visions of and believe in.
And him being a militaristic leader; many men (and women!) in history has been brilliant strategists and such, but they all fight for something they believe in and think is right. Like Boudiccas fight for freedom but she isn't less of a person for killing people.
-
+
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
The athorities wanted to let her go. It was the clerics who stepped in and made this whole thing into an issue.
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
You need to read some Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens to awaken you to the real danger posed by Islam.
-
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
Bigot. -1
-
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
Bigot. -1
Agreed.
-
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
Bigot. -1
You're going to have to think of a better argument than just calling people the "B" or "R" word.
Religion poisons everything... Islam especially
-
I can accept that some are, scrap. thats self-evident from the cocksuckers setting fire to their daughters, flying planes into buildings and demanding the death sentence for cartoonists. but where do you get most from? our survey said: wtf? if that was the case swathes of urban britain would be no-go areas for non-muslims, for starters.
seriously - is there some factual basis for this assertion, or is it just hyperbole?
-
it's hyperbole. :P
-
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
Bigot. -1
You're going to have to think of a better argument than just calling people the "B" or "R" word.
Why should I when you don't? Bigot.
-
what's the R word? R Kelly?
-
Racist.
-
right. :P
-
right. :P
No, racist.
-
right-winger racist r kelly. :P
-
Biased againsted a religion is how I would put it. A religion extends beyond race barriers.
The Sudan is a seriously fucked up nation, and it is Islamic. Look at the situation with the lost boys and the other reports coming out of that country of slavery and murder. There are Sudanese people that go to my parent's church and they were persecuted there and had to leave due to that goverment. Tall and skinny as hell, both are decent guys and came over here with many others that are all over the nation now. I worked with a guy from Nigeria and that place sounds pretty fucked compared to the US, but nothing as bad as what I have heard about Sudan. What was done to them, was done by Islamic Jihad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Boys_of_Sudan
-
Yes, Sudan's a seriously fucked-up country. That doesn't mean that all Muslims are.
-
Yes, Sudan's a seriously fucked-up country. That doesn't mean that all Muslims are.
True, there are plenty that aren't that way. I don't have sociological data with a great sample size to try to claim beliefs on the majority or minority of Muslims. Muslim governments are run by their religion to a greater extent than most. Sharia law can be pretty fucked up in some instances.
-
No argument there. What they do in Sudan and in other countries with similar views on basic human rights is inexcusable.
-
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
Bigot. -1
You're going to have to think of a better argument than just calling people the "B" or "R" word.
Why should I when you don't? Bigot.
I have a reasoned argument against the majority of Muslims. You refuse to accept it because you're afraid of Muslims. You saw what they did to a Danish newspaper that expressed its freedom of speech, and you'd rather cower in a corner than confront a bully, much as you did with the stormfront issue.
Religious dogma poisons everything it touches. This is especially true of the majority of muslims who live under some form or another of theocracy where they are brainwashed 5 times a day into worshiping one of the most vile characters in fiction.
Read the Quran, it is one of the most hate filled books ever writen...only Mein Kampf comes close.
-
I'm still waiting for an actual argument instead of the hyperbole. Not a problem as such; I wasn't expecting one from you.
As for the Qur'an, I've read it. Have you?
Bigot.
-
Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are.
Bigot. -1
You're going to have to think of a better argument than just calling people the "B" or "R" word.
Why should I when you don't? Bigot.
I have a reasoned argument against the majority of Muslims. You refuse to accept it because you're afraid of Muslims. You saw what they did to a Danish newspaper that expressed its freedom of speech, and you'd rather cower in a corner than confront a bully, much as you did with the stormfront issue.
Religious dogma poisons everything it touches. This is especially true of the majority of muslims who live under some form or another of theocracy where they are brainwashed 5 times a day into worshiping one of the most vile characters in fiction.
Read the Quran, it is one of the most hate filled books ever writen...only Mein Kampf comes close.
The Bible is no walk in the park either
-
I'm still waiting for an actual argument instead of the hyperbole. Not a problem as such; I wasn't expecting one from you.
As for the Qur'an, I've read it. Have you?
Bigot.
:plus:
What happened in Denmark isn't called freedom of speech but agitation against an ethnic group. Or that's atleast what it's called in Sweden.
-
Don't worry about Scrap, Joe Hill. He's our resident bigot. Harmless, mostly, but annoying at times.
-
I'm still waiting for an actual argument instead of the hyperbole. Not a problem as such; I wasn't expecting one from you.
As it applies to Islam and the quran, I'm not sure that hyperbole is possible, given the black and white dogma it preaches. Islam itself deals in superlatives. Therefore, it's not hyperbole to compare it to something equally bigoted and full of hate.
As for the Qur'an, I've read it. Have you?
I've read as much as I can stomach.... a moral person gets sick after only a few chapters.
Bigot.
How Orwellian of you.... the defender of bigotry calling those who denounce bigotry, a bigot...... That's rich!!!
-
The Bible is no walk in the park either
Very true!!! The only reason christians aren't as bigoted as the muslims, is that they ignore most of what the bible says.
-
What happened in Denmark isn't called freedom of speech but agitation against an ethnic group. Or that's atleast what it's called in Sweden.
I love the Orwellian Newspeak here. Free speech is no longer free speech if we call it something else. BTW, muslim isn't an ethnic group fucktard.
If all you have to do to "offend" muslims is draw a cartoon of Muhammed (or name a teady bear after him) it becomes quite obvious who is the agitator.
-
If they were smart, they'd start worshiping the damned teddy bear. Teddy bears don't incite people to perform executions based on the name someone gives a teddy bear. Teddy bears just sit and be cute.
i've worshipped teddies since i was a kid. i had a ton of teddies and plushies and couldn't even breathe through my nose. :P i still have the elite group with me that i carry around. when i packed to move to Ireland i tossed my teddies in the suitcase and my computer. lol that's like my most important posessions.
teddies are always nice and never judge. :)
I used to have a ton of stuffed animals
(that's what we called them, in my day).
Kind of gave them up, when I went to
live in the dorms :laugh:. Then again,
I was mainly just using them sexually, for
the last few years that I had them.
-
Like I said before in the extreme all religions tend to get wacky I have met both in Muslims they are people too and run the full spectrum of some real nut jobs who I am sure are on the terrorist watch lists to just the regular guy who you would not mind as a neighbor. The problem in many of the Muslim countries is they have no exposer to anything but the hard liners who like their positions of power and do almost anything to keep them
Terrorists ain't muslims, what they are doing is violating the Qu'ran (even though they usually claim it's their Jihad, but the big Jihad is the fight within yourself). Problem is that most people don't see that.
This is like saying that southern baptists aren't really
christians, if they hate. Let people call themselves what
they will. If those with more sensibilities can't handle the
company, let them rename what they are. The terrorist
side of Islam is a PART of the religion. It can't be changed
by denial, any more than the inquisition can be denied by
christians. THIS is what faith, and knowing that you are
right does.
-
christians usually get it wrong too. bible itself was altered by people and misinterpreted.
It was WRITTEN by people. Why shouldn't they alter it?
If God's will somehow made the original correct, why shouldn't
any changes be so too?
-
And him being a militaristic leader; many men (and women!) in history has been brilliant strategists and such, but they all fight for something they believe in and think is right. Like Boudiccas fight for freedom but she isn't less of a person for killing people.
Aye. Like Hitler. This is exactly what is wrong with
strong faith. Religious or otherwise.
-
I have a reasoned argument against the majority of Muslims. You refuse to accept it because you're afraid of Muslims. You saw what they did to a Danish newspaper that expressed its freedom of speech, and you'd rather cower in a corner than confront a bully, much as you did with the stormfront issue.
I don't see the two as parallel. In the latter, the choice was
made to indeed cower. Here, a discussion IS allowed.
Religious dogma poisons everything it touches. This is especially true of the majority of muslims who live under some form or another of theocracy where they are brainwashed 5 times a day into worshiping one of the most vile characters in fiction.
But SO does any other dogma. Don't just blame
religion. Political beliefs can be every bit as damaging.
Look at the clash between communism and capitalism.
Read the Quran, it is one of the most hate filled books ever writen...only Mein Kampf comes close.
Not to mention the old testament.
-
I'm still waiting for an actual argument instead of the hyperbole. Not a problem as such; I wasn't expecting one from you.
As for the Qur'an, I've read it. Have you?
Bigot.
:plus:
What happened in Denmark isn't called freedom of speech but agitation against an ethnic group. Or that's atleast what it's called in Sweden.
Oh come on, they were bloody cartoons.
-
Don't worry about Scrap, Joe Hill. He's our resident bigot. Harmless, mostly, but annoying at times.
I'm quite glad to see him back, TBH.
-
The Bible is no walk in the park either
Very true!!! The only reason christians aren't as bigoted as the muslims, is that they ignore most of what the bible says.
Time. Give Islam another 500 years.
We've had that much of a head start.
Islam is at the point that Christianity was,
in the 1500's. They haven't even really
had their equivalent of the 30 years war yet.
Once they ruin their economies fully, in this
type of hate war, they will mellow a bit.
-
The Bible is no walk in the park either
Very true!!! The only reason christians aren't as bigoted as the muslims, is that they ignore most of what the bible says.
Time. Give Islam another 500 years.
We've had that much of a head start.
Islam is at the point that Christianity was,
in the 1500's. They haven't even really
had their equivalent of the 30 years war yet.
Once they ruin their economies fully, in this
type of hate war, they will mellow a bit.
Wait till they run out of oil and nobody pays attention to them anymore that will send them for a loop well at least in the Middle East
-
They were poor, and without important resources,
back at the turn of the last century. Still a pretty
violent bunch.
-
They won't have the world by the balls like now. We were a pretty violent bunch then and now. I think they will miss the attention
-
Like I said before in the extreme all religions tend to get wacky I have met both in Muslims they are people too and run the full spectrum of some real nut jobs who I am sure are on the terrorist watch lists to just the regular guy who you would not mind as a neighbor. The problem in many of the Muslim countries is they have no exposer to anything but the hard liners who like their positions of power and do almost anything to keep them
Terrorists ain't muslims, what they are doing is violating the Qu'ran (even though they usually claim it's their Jihad, but the big Jihad is the fight within yourself). Problem is that most people don't see that.
This is like saying that southern baptists aren't really
christians, if they hate. Let people call themselves what
they will. If those with more sensibilities can't handle the
company, let them rename what they are. The terrorist
side of Islam is a PART of the religion. It can't be changed
by denial, any more than the inquisition can be denied by
christians. THIS is what faith, and knowing that you are
right does.
Well, they will go to hell anyway.
-
I'm still waiting for an actual argument instead of the hyperbole. Not a problem as such; I wasn't expecting one from you.
As it applies to Islam and the quran, I'm not sure that hyperbole is possible, given the black and white dogma it preaches. Islam itself deals in superlatives. Therefore, it's not hyperbole to compare it to something equally bigoted and full of hate.
More hyperbole. Don't you ever get tired of yourself?
As for the Qur'an, I've read it. Have you?
I've read as much as I can stomach.... a moral person gets sick after only a few chapters.
More hyperbole. If you want to discuss the Qur'an, have the courtesy of reading it first. Be sure to get a decent translation, though--allow me to recommend this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meaning-Holy-Quran-English-Arabic/dp/1590080165/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3BJ1OAUAMVABG&colid=17SPEB5E3K4QD).
Bigot.
How Orwellian of you.... the defender of bigotry calling those who denounce bigotry, a bigot...... That's rich!!!
bigot
n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own
Give the hyperbole a rest and re-examine what I and others have been saying about Islam. Until then...
Bigot.
-
Like I said before in the extreme all religions tend to get wacky I have met both in Muslims they are people too and run the full spectrum of some real nut jobs who I am sure are on the terrorist watch lists to just the regular guy who you would not mind as a neighbor. The problem in many of the Muslim countries is they have no exposer to anything but the hard liners who like their positions of power and do almost anything to keep them
Terrorists ain't muslims, what they are doing is violating the Qu'ran (even though they usually claim it's their Jihad, but the big Jihad is the fight within yourself). Problem is that most people don't see that.
This is like saying that southern baptists aren't really
christians, if they hate. Let people call themselves what
they will. If those with more sensibilities can't handle the
company, let them rename what they are. The terrorist
side of Islam is a PART of the religion. It can't be changed
by denial, any more than the inquisition can be denied by
christians. THIS is what faith, and knowing that you are
right does.
Well, they will go to hell anyway.
Only the really cool get into hell.
-
I used to have a ton of stuffed animals
(that's what we called them, in my day).
Kind of gave them up, when I went to
live in the dorms :laugh:. Then again,
I was mainly just using them sexually, for
the last few years that I had them.
:laugh:
well weren't they lucky? :eyebrows:
It was WRITTEN by people. Why shouldn't they alter it?
If God's will somehow made the original correct, why shouldn't
any changes be so too?
interesting question. well, if god said to whoever wrote the bible, "write as i dictate, as typewriters haven't been invented yet" and then proceeded to spill his guts, and then there was the bible, and then these other guys come along and they're all like "well our lord satan told us to go fuck with the book god's brownnosers just made, haha" and then they go and screw it all up and start cults that twist the word of god and pretend to be all holy. :P
-
I'm still waiting for an actual argument instead of the hyperbole. Not a problem as such; I wasn't expecting one from you.
As for the Qur'an, I've read it. Have you?
Bigot.
:plus:
What happened in Denmark isn't called freedom of speech but agitation against an ethnic group. Or that's atleast what it's called in Sweden.
agitation what??? there's no free speech in sweden? wtf? is it just me or has sweden taken a nosedive into bizarroworld? :(
Oh come on, they were bloody cartoons.
yeah exactly. what the fuck is wrong with people? agitation against an ethic group? don't they think those extremist psychos are mollycoddled enough since they can't take the slightest criticism? who raised these nutjobs? mommy fucking theresa? like spoiled child kings. noone ever dares say no, so they grow no fucking skin nor sense of humor. it's sick.
-
There is free speech in Sweden. There's also libel, however.
-
but against a religion? i can understand protection of individuals but religion?
-
No, you can't insult a religion. You can insult an ethnic group of people, however, and ridiculing such a group because of their beliefs could be interpreted as being against the law. I'm not sure if it's been tried properly or not, but I doubt it actually is against the law.
-
muslims aren't an ethnic group, anyone can be muslim.
-
I should have added "religious" to that. Forgot. So shoot me. :P
-
More hyperbole. If you want to discuss the Qur'an, have the courtesy of reading it first. Be sure to get a decent translation, though--allow me to recommend this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meaning-Holy-Quran-English-Arabic/dp/1590080165/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3BJ1OAUAMVABG&colid=17SPEB5E3K4QD).
Do I have to repeat myself here?? One doesn't need to read Mein kampf cover to cover to understand the evil of Nazism. You can get that much from the first few paragraphs. All the Abrahamic religions are despotic, genocidal, misogonystic, books of intolerance. You can get that from the first few chapters as well. I have better things to do with my time besides reading bronze-age mythology.... like watching paint dry.
bigot
n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own
Nice description of youself there odeon. You see, diversity über alles and tolerance über alles, can become a dogma in and of themselves. You are intolerant of people who aren't like you, tolerant to the point of cowardice.
I refuse to allow myself to be pushed around by religious bullies who demand respect that their religion doesn't deserve. It doesn't make me a bigot to understand that the Abrahamic religions are a virus of the mind and the majority of muslims have been made sick by it. As I've said earlier, the reason most christians aren't this way, is because they ignore large portions of the bible. Ironicaly, Fred Phelps is a good example of someone who actually tries to follow what the bible actually says. I can't think of a better example of the hate that results from reading these books. Religion poisons everything.
It's NOT hyperbole, to point to religious hyperbole. It's NOT bigotry to point to religious bigotry. I'm not a bigot, by denouncing bigots.
Now excuse me, I have to go take a shit......... and wipe my ass with the pages of the quran. :tp:
Oooh, and while I'm at it, I think I'll name the steaming pile of shit I leave behind....... Muhammad :poop:
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
-
No, you can't insult a religion. You can insult an ethnic group of people, however, and ridiculing such a group because of their beliefs could be interpreted as being against the law. I'm not sure if it's been tried properly or not, but I doubt it actually is against the law.
It is against the law to tease someone, to bully someone, to make fun of their religion, their homecountry, their sexuality etc. etc. (unless the person/s you insult is fine with it). It's seen as physical abuse, but it's not highly offendable. Minister Ã…ke Green went into prison for insulting homosexuals ;D
Of course there is a freedom of speech even here, but we take grate value in peoples feelings since here in Sweden we are wussys who doesn't want to offend anyone. The muhammed cartoons has been publiced here but by the extreme right (read nazis).
-
More hyperbole. If you want to discuss the Qur'an, have the courtesy of reading it first. Be sure to get a decent translation, though--allow me to recommend this one (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meaning-Holy-Quran-English-Arabic/dp/1590080165/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3BJ1OAUAMVABG&colid=17SPEB5E3K4QD).
Do I have to repeat myself here?? One doesn't need to read Mein kampf cover to cover to understand the evil of Nazism. You can get that much from the first few paragraphs. All the Abrahamic religions are despotic, genocidal, misogonystic, books of intolerance. You can get that from the first few chapters as well. I have better things to do with my time besides reading bronze-age mythology.... like watching paint dry.
More hyperbole. You're trying FUD strategies to defame Islam, here. "Mein Kampf" has nothing to do with Muslims, you're just using it to create that little doubt in the reader's mind.
Unfortunately for you, your rhetorics couldn't convince a 5-yo. If you want an argument, try reading the Qur'an and THEN attack what's in it, instead of implying that you had and then lying about it:
Read the Quran, it is one of the most hate filled books ever writen...only Mein Kampf comes close.
How do you know if you haven't read it? This is a bigot's strategy.
bigot
n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions
differing from his own
Nice description of youself there odeon. You see, diversity über alles and tolerance über alles, can become a dogma in and of themselves. You are intolerant of people who aren't like you, tolerant to the point of cowardice.
I'm intolerant of people who will attack religious or ethnic groups without checking their facts (or even trying to), such as yourself. Explain how my opposing your attack against a religious group is bigotry. Explain how an openness to other religions and ideas is bigotry.
I refuse to allow myself to be pushed around by religious bullies who demand respect that their religion doesn't deserve. It doesn't make me a bigot to understand that the Abrahamic religions are a virus of the mind and the majority of muslims have been made sick by it. As I've said earlier, the reason most christians aren't this way, is because they ignore large portions of the bible. Ironicaly, Fred Phelps is a good example of someone who actually tries to follow what the bible actually says. I can't think of a better example of the hate that results from reading these books. Religion poisons everything.
Said by someone who, by his own admission, haven't read these books.
This makes you a bigot:
It doesn't make me a bigot to understand that the Abrahamic religions are a virus of the mind and the majority of muslims have been made sick by it.
Care to explain why you think that this is true? Include examples, and since you attack several religions, include examples that illustrate your points form those others as well. Make an actual argument, for once in your life.
It's NOT hyperbole, to point to religious hyperbole. It's NOT bigotry to point to religious bigotry. I'm not a bigot, by denouncing bigots.
YO
You're a bigot because you attack a religious group based on nothing else than your opinions. You still haven't made an actual argument.
And this post, just as your other ones, are full of hyperbole. Look the word up.
Now excuse me, I have to go take a shit......... and wipe my ass with the pages of the quran. :tp:
Oooh, and while I'm at it, I think I'll name the steaming pile of shit I leave behind....... Muhammad :poop:
I'm still waiting for the actual argument. Take your time.
Bigot.
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
How's your reading comprehension?
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
That's wrong. I can see people wanting to make it illegal but what does that do to free speech. I don't agree with lots of things people say but I'd rather they say it so I know who they are and make my own decisions about them instead of being told how to think.
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
That is weak as fuck in my opinion. I would never live in a country like that. Totally limits free speech by making it a law thing. You can publicly ridicule people who insult or get them fired from their job here. Making it a legal matter is fucked. We have libel and slander laws here, but that is for insults that aren't true.
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html
-
I used to have a ton of stuffed animals
(that's what we called them, in my day).
Kind of gave them up, when I went to
live in the dorms :laugh:. Then again,
I was mainly just using them sexually, for
the last few years that I had them.
:laugh:
well weren't they lucky? :eyebrows:
Crusty, at the least.
-
interesting question. well, if god said to whoever wrote the bible, "write as i dictate, as typewriters haven't been invented yet" and then proceeded to spill his guts, and then there was the bible, and then these other guys come along and they're all like "well our lord satan told us to go fuck with the book god's brownnosers just made, haha" and then they go and screw it all up and start cults that twist the word of god and pretend to be all holy. :P
A god so weak, that it can't control what is happening,
doesn't much impress me.
-
It is against the law to tease someone, to bully someone, to make fun of their religion, their homecountry, their sexuality etc. etc. (unless the person/s you insult is fine with it). It's seen as physical abuse, but it's not highly offendable. Minister Ã…ke Green went into prison for insulting homosexuals ;D
Of course there is a freedom of speech even here
Doesn't SOUND like it.
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
That's wrong. I can see people wanting to make it illegal but what does that do to free speech. I don't agree with lots of things people say but I'd rather they say it so I know who they are and make my own decisions about them instead of being told how to think.
Depends on, like this guy Ã…ke Green, he said the homosexuals was a "abnormal, a horrible cancerous tumor in the body of society," and that they are "perverts, whose sexual drive the Devil has used as his strongest weapon against God." and that they could be "set free and delivered". And since that's considered offensive and he insulted the gay communitive, he was put in jail for a month. There is a great deal of how to judge when it comes to this, one side is freedom of speech and one side is people saying offensive stuff. They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
Not true. As most countries, we have slander and libel laws. Calling someone ion Sweden a moron does not automatically break against any law.
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
That is weak as fuck in my opinion. I would never live in a country like that. Totally limits free speech by making it a law thing. You can publicly ridicule people who insult or get them fired from their job here. Making it a legal matter is fucked. We have libel and slander laws here, but that is for insults that aren't true.
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html
It's about the same here, actually. Libel/slander victims in the US can make a lot more money if they win in court, though.
-
when I hear about this sort of thing it makes me want to attack people with these beliefs.
-
No, you can't insult a religion.
Is is seriously against the law to insult religion in Sweden?? That's inexcusable, if it's true.
No, it's against the law if you insult people.
That's wrong. I can see people wanting to make it illegal but what does that do to free speech. I don't agree with lots of things people say but I'd rather they say it so I know who they are and make my own decisions about them instead of being told how to think.
Depends on, like this guy Ã…ke Green, he said the homosexuals was a "abnormal, a horrible cancerous tumor in the body of society," and that they are "perverts, whose sexual drive the Devil has used as his strongest weapon against God." and that they could be "set free and delivered". And since that's considered offensive and he insulted the gay communitive, he was put in jail for a month. There is a great deal of how to judge when it comes to this, one side is freedom of speech and one side is people saying offensive stuff. They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
Here is the problem I have. When I was younger I lived in Florida the area I was in had a good share of "good old boy types" who made it clear how they felt about blacks, gays you name it. You knew how they felt and could deal with them accordingly it was all very in the open. Now I live in New England the so called enlightened part of the country where racial issues are not talked about and on the surface don't exist. Let me tell you just because people don't say it they still feel it. The racism here is at times worse than it was in the South because you never know what the other person thinks. I being a white guy have stumbled into conversations with people to be appalled at what people say to me thinking I would agree because I am white. this being said I wish people would speak their minds so I can tell who I want to do business and associate with without the guess work
-
:LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO::LMAO:
If you want an argument, try reading the Qur'an and THEN attack what's in it, instead of implying that you had and then lying about it:
Said by someone who, by his own admission, haven't read these books.
BUSTED!!! I knew it was just a matter of time before you talked out of both sides of your mouth!!!
So which one is it odeon?? Did I say that I read the Quran, and then lied about it, or did I admit that I never read it??
You duplicitious lying sack of shit. You can't even get your lies straight.
I HAVE read the Quran... just not all of it.
It's obvious at this point that you don't want to engage in genuine debate and you're simply projecting straw-man arguments on to me.
Go fuck yourself in the ass with the buisness end of a pineaple.
:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:
-
You implied that you had read the Qur'an, then admitted that no, you had only started because (insert your hyperbole here). I'm trying to straighten out your FUD and your lies, Scrap.
The following quote is where you imply you have; after all, if you haven't read it, how can you say that it's "one of the most hate filled books ever writen"?
Read the Quran, it is one of the most hate filled books ever writen...only Mein Kampf comes close.
Speaking of which, have you read "Mein Kampf"?
Here's where you admitted that no, you had not read the Qur'an:
I've read as much as I can stomach.... a moral person gets sick after only a few chapters.
And, by again comparing it with "Mein Kampf", here:
Do I have to repeat myself here?? One doesn't need to read Mein kampf cover to cover to understand the evil of Nazism. You can get that much from the first few paragraphs.
The implication, your FUD, is that the Qur'an is as evil as "Mein Kampf", from the first page and onwards. Incidentally, the first few paragraphs of "Mein Kampf" are as follows:
On April 1st, 1924, I began to serve my sentence of detention in the
Fortress of Landsberg am Lech, following the verdict of the Munich
People's Court of that time.
After years of uninterrupted labour it was now possible for the first
time to begin a work which many had asked for and which I myself felt
would be profitable for the Movement. So I decided to devote two volumes
to a description not only of the aims of our Movement but also of its
development. There is more to be learned from this than from any purely
doctrinaire treatise.
This has also given me the opportunity of describing my own development
in so far as such a description is necessary to the understanding of the
first as well as the second volume and to destroy the legendary
fabrications which the Jewish Press have circulated about me.
In this work I turn not to strangers but to those followers of the
Movement whose hearts belong to it and who wish to study it more
profoundly. I know that fewer people are won over by the written word
than by the spoken word and that every great movement on this earth owes
its growth to great speakers and not to great writers.
Nevertheless, in order to produce more equality and uniformity in the
defence of any doctrine, its fundamental principles must be committed to
writing. May these two volumes therefore serve as the building stones
which I contribute to the joint work.
The Fortress, Landsberg am Lech.
Scary, but only because we know what happened later. He lashes out against the Jewish Press, but that's about it. The hate parts come later, mostly; the first volume is more of a review of what happened with him and Germany before 1924.
Here are the first few paragraphs of the Qur'an:
With the Name of Allah, the Merciful Benefactor, The Merciful Redeemer
001.001 In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
001.002 Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
001.003 Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
001.004 Master of the Day of Judgment.
001.005 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
001.006 Show us the straight way,
001.007 The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose
(portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
Lots of hate there.
So, instead of the childish insults, why not produce that first argument. Show us why you think that "Although not all Muslims are like this... most of them are."
Until then...
Bigot.
-
interesting question. well, if god said to whoever wrote the bible, "write as i dictate, as typewriters haven't been invented yet" and then proceeded to spill his guts, and then there was the bible, and then these other guys come along and they're all like "well our lord satan told us to go fuck with the book god's brownnosers just made, haha" and then they go and screw it all up and start cults that twist the word of god and pretend to be all holy. :P
A god so weak, that it can't control what is happening,
doesn't much impress me.
god could, but it won't cuz of free will.
don't ask me why there's free will.
-
They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
That's like saying murder is allowed,
but you suffer for committing it.
-
Here is the problem I have. When I was younger I lived in Florida the area I was in had a good share of "good old boy types" who made it clear how they felt about blacks, gays you name it. You knew how they felt and could deal with them accordingly it was all very in the open. Now I live in New England the so called enlightened part of the country where racial issues are not talked about and on the surface don't exist. Let me tell you just because people don't say it they still feel it. The racism here is at times worse than it was in the South because you never know what the other person thinks. I being a white guy have stumbled into conversations with people to be appalled at what people say to me thinking I would agree because I am white. this being said I wish people would speak their minds so I can tell who I want to do business and associate with without the guess work
:agreed:
And you know, you can right out tell those good 'ol boys
what you think. At least they understand that you're telling
the truth. You say something like that, to the bigots of the
refined areas, and the AGREE with you, but then try to argue
against.
-
interesting question. well, if god said to whoever wrote the bible, "write as i dictate, as typewriters haven't been invented yet" and then proceeded to spill his guts, and then there was the bible, and then these other guys come along and they're all like "well our lord satan told us to go fuck with the book god's brownnosers just made, haha" and then they go and screw it all up and start cults that twist the word of god and pretend to be all holy. :P
A god so weak, that it can't control what is happening,
doesn't much impress me.
god could, but it won't cuz of free will.
don't ask me why there's free will.
There's free will, because WE can't deal
with the possibility that there's not.
Nonetheless, free will is allowable, in the
circumstance mentioned. God could clearly
express the things told to someone who
wrote the Bible, to each and every one of
us. Indeed, to think that God is playing favorites,
and giving some any special insight strikes me
as ridiculous. Instead, one presumes that such
knowledge as necessary to write such words
MUST be present in all of us, and that these
are simply interpretations of what anyone may
see.
Free will doesn't disappear, with such individual
attention - as shown with the story of the fall.
-
free will is an illusion. it's a thing for the stupid. if one is enlightened enough to know the right thing and want to do it, is that free will? i think it's more free will than when someone is free to do stupid things because they don't have the mind capacity or the enlightenedness to know and want to do the right thing. see, when you are enlightened you want to do the right thing. when you are dim, you don't know better so in a sense free will doesn't exist in the world because people are too fucking dim.
They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
That's like saying murder is allowed,
but you suffer for committing it.
well isn't it like that? otherwise we would be unable to murder. but we aren't. so it's allowed.
-
They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
That's like saying murder is allowed,
but you suffer for committing it.
It's not. Murder is a crime, a punishable offense, and the state will (and must) pursue murder charges, according to criminal law. Insults and such, while potentially slander (or libel), do not involve a criminal proceeding. Slander and libel laws are part of civil law.
-
They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
That's like saying murder is allowed,
but you suffer for committing it.
well isn't it like that? otherwise we would be unable to murder. but we aren't. so it's allowed.
Yepp. The only thing we can do is punish someone.
-
yeah. :P
-
They are allowed to say what they want to say, but they could be fined if they bring harm to someone.
That's like saying murder is allowed,
but you suffer for committing it.
well isn't it like that? otherwise we would be unable to murder. but we aren't. so it's allowed.
Yepp. The only thing we can do is punish someone.
Whoa. Imprisonment IS punishment.
I'm sorry, but once you inflict harm
on someone, you've definitely crossed
a line.
-
harm?
-
Pretty much. Even financial.
-
you go to prison?
-
No. only jail. For one stinkin' night.
-
Slander and libel laws are there because when you do that you damage someone else greatly in a public fashion (that can damage their entire career) and what you did to damage them is false. You can still insult someone for the sake of comedy I would hope, especially if you are insulting them over something true.
-
it's a case by case thing.
-
On the other hand in difference to the U.S. almost none will go to prison for their crime here in Sweden, most people don't really even report the crime to the police. Sad, but true.
-
huh? ???
-
We think to much basicly. And we are gullible.
-
We?
-
The general Swedes.
-
Fuck no, generally speaking.
-
On the other hand in difference to the U.S. almost none will go to prison for their crime here in Sweden, most people don't really even report the crime to the police. Sad, but true.
No one goes to jail for slander or libel, here
in the US, AFAIK.
-
On the other hand in difference to the U.S. almost none will go to prison for their crime here in Sweden, most people don't really even report the crime to the police. Sad, but true.
No one goes to jail for slander or libel, here
in the US, AFAIK.
They just sue eachother
-
But, it's NOT an easy case to prove.
First, it HAS to be personal, and directed.
It also has to cause some actual harm, be
false, and intentional. Pretty steep criteria.
-
But, it's NOT an easy case to prove.
First, it HAS to be personal, and directed.
It also has to cause some actual harm, be
false, and intentional. Pretty steep criteria.
Yeah it is thankfully. But having to defend and get a lawyer is bad enough
-
what if it's true and causes harm? what if it's private information?
-
what if it's true and causes harm? what if it's private information?
Certain records, like medical records, might be confidential but if a news reporter somehow gains access to them without breaking the law then I think that they could be reported.
I think that in the US, proving the truth of a statement is an absolute defense to a slander or libel lawsuit.
Let's say for example, that I said in public that my daughter's special education teacher put soap in my daughter's mouth and choked her and I named the teacher.
The teacher could sue me for slander, and then there would be a trial.
If I proved that she did those things to my daughter then I would be completely off the hook, however if I could not prove the truth of my statement and if she proved that her career was damaged by my saying that she did those things, then I would have to pay her a judgement.
-
i don't think publishing someone's medical records should ever be allowed.
-
With the all seeing computer Gods of today it's hard to keep things secret :police: :grrr:
-
If I proved that she did those things to my daughter then I would be completely off the hook, however if I could not prove the truth of my statement and if she proved that her career was damaged by my saying that she did those things, then I would have to pay her a judgement.
Yeah, because she's a private person.
Public figures, I believe, have the burden
of proof on themselves. Thus, they have
a hell of a time proving slander.
-
Fuck no, generally speaking.
Generally speaking, yes. With you, no.
-
I get the impression that the liberals on this board who ostensibly defend Muslims actually will only praise them in inverse proportion to how Muslim they actually are. A conservative, dedicatedc Muslim who wears a dress, has a beard and and hat, and dissaproves of gays, hates non Muslims and doesn't belive women should be allowed to drvie or walk the streets alone, that is a bad Muslim. A westernised, nominal Muslim who is part of the culture but doesn't really have a strong faith and has liberal views, respecting woman and gays and ignoring parts of the Koran unaccpetable to UK culture, is a good Muslim. I just hope it is true what they tell us that the latter outweighs the former.
-
Should I just laugh at your expense, or do you want to back some of your statements up?
-
What statements? I'm just talking about the impression I get about other's beliefs from hearing their views. It's my personal (and incomplete) experience, not informed facts or "statements".
-
OK.
/laughs
-
Forgetting the people of this board, let me talk about my local press. I live in a big UK city with a large Muslim population. There are often stories in the local press about an Islamic bookshop being searched by police or a violence-supporting cleric being forced to stop preaching. Whenever this happens the papers are like " Well don't judge all Muslims by these, because some of them don't follow the Koran to the letter, they have very liberal interpretaions and ignore the bad bits". This is paraphrasing, but it is the impression I get.
I am also wondering if the UK Hindus and Sikhs who resent Muslims would be considered racist, as their skin is brown, and many UK Muslims are white converts.
-
Interesting video. Make of it what you will.
At the end of the day, innocent people, when we say innocent people, we mean muslims. As far as non-muslims are concerned, they have not accepted Islam, and as far as we're concerned, that is a crime against God.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqk8bfRqEiw
-
You guys in Europe have to start having more kids before they out number you
-
I think that if it is not fair to bash all Muslims for the action of (ostensibly) a few, then it is also not fair to uniformly bash people who are distrustful or confused about Muslims. People can only function based on their own experiences and information. If someone's experience has led them to have an unfair opinion of Muslims, surely it is better to open up a dialogue and add to their information (or change it , if incorrect) than to constantly repeat "bigot", "hyperbole" "I'm laughing at you" etc. The Muslim bashers are just people who are genuinely confused for the reasons of the liberal's defending.
-
A few muslims who obviously didn't take the Public Relations 101 course:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UufTBjgEE5Q
-
I have met many Muslims that I got along with very well it's the sheep of them that follow the lead of the fundie clerics I have a problem with
-
I had a few Islamic friends at Uni. A friend I got on very well whom I even helped him do his project in flash which was a website about his Mosque. They look normal to me, though. They all have short hair, regular clothes, etc. Though, they did not drink or eat pork. I liked and respected them. Its the ones that look outwardly strange that make me nervous, with the dresses, hats and veils. I have never had a friend of this type and whenver I see these I always imagine that they are on their way to a secret room beneath a pub to discuss a bombing of innocents. Prejudice on my part, but thats the way the media has programmed me.
-
I think that if it is not fair to bash all Muslims for the action of (ostensibly) a few, then it is also not fair to uniformly bash people who are distrustful or confused about Muslims. People can only function based on their own experiences and information. If someone's experience has led them to have an unfair opinion of Muslims, surely it is better to open up a dialogue and add to their information (or change it , if incorrect) than to constantly repeat "bigot", "hyperbole" "I'm laughing at you" etc. The Muslim bashers are just people who are genuinely confused for the reasons of the liberal's defending.
OK. Valid points. I hear what you are saying, and I'm sorry I dismissed you earlier. The one point I disagree with is the one I've marked in bold: In my experience, the majority of the Muslim bashers are certainly confused, but not for reasons having anything to do with anything the Liberals (also known as "Muslim apologists") say. The vocal ones often thrive on the hate-mongering, the appeal to the reader's fear of the unknown, and the general uneasiness in the Western world regarding any Muslims.
Certainly, after 9/11 it's been easy for these people to appeal to those fears.
If you look at the on-and-off debate re Muslims in this forum, you'll find little in way of balanced views and dialogue, unfortunately. More often than not, the discussion is polarised, resulting in hyperbole and name-calling, and quite frankly, I was tired of it long before you posted, hence my reply (for which I'm sorry).
-
Relgion is just one outlet for human hatred
If islam fucked off tomorrow something else would come along sooner or later and take it's place
The simple truth is human society even in the most democratic nation (country) is still ruled on the same feudal based principles as was in the middle ages
The fedual system for example we have today in the western world is free moving
Meaning anyone can through the theory and practice of wealth generation
Go from rags to riches so to speak
The only way this will ever change is when humanity has unlimited resources
Till that condition is met
The same principles will continue perpetuate
And so to the problems it produces
-
Relgion is just one outlet for human hatred
If islam fucked off tomorrow something else would come along sooner or later and take it's place
QFT.
witches, christians, lepers, jews, witches again, christians again, muslims, gays, muslims...
etc., etc., etc.
what i want to know is how the fuck did the lepers get off so lightly?
-
what i want to know is how the fuck did the lepers get off so lightly?
:LMAO: :rofl: :LMAO:
:plus:
-
i knew that would tickle you!
:laugh:
:-*
-
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise.
Actually, we do. All prophets are illegitimate. They are either deliberate frauds or delusional nutjobs.
As George Carlin said, they are the undisputed kings of bullshit.
-
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise.
Actually, we do. All prophets are illegitimate. They are either deliberate frauds or delusional nutjobs.
As George Carlin said, they are the undisputed kings of bullshit.
Actually you don't. You ca certainly try but you'll look awfully silly.
But then, you already look silly so...
-
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise.
Actually, we do. All prophets are illegitimate. They are either deliberate frauds or delusional nutjobs.
As George Carlin said, they are the undisputed kings of bullshit.
Actually you don't.
Says who? When are you going to figure out that religion is a lie??
You ca certainly try but you'll look awfully silly.
But then, you already look silly so...
You're projecting here. I'm not the one defending people who believe in talking snakes and burning bushes.
-
Their prophet's legitimacy is crap, which in turn makes Islam itself crap. Their respect for the name and image of Mohammed is a false one, as his own prophethood is not even legit. Basically they are morons, just like anyone who would throw a hissy fit over the image of Yahweh or Jesus.
Luckily you don't get to define the legitimacy of any prophet, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise.
Actually, we do. All prophets are illegitimate. They are either deliberate frauds or delusional nutjobs.
As George Carlin said, they are the undisputed kings of bullshit.
Actually you don't.
Says who? When are you going to figure out that religion is a lie??
I did, a long time ago, but I'm not talking about my views. I'm saying that you don't get to decide, just as I don't get to decide.
You ca certainly try but you'll look awfully silly.
But then, you already look silly so...
You're projecting here. I'm not the one defending people who believe in talking snakes and burning bushes.
I'm defending their right to believe. You should try it--I think your country supposedly supports that sort of thing. Or did, at least.
-
Don't generalise, Peter. This is about fucked-up Sudan authorities, teacher colleagues holding grudges, and fundamentalist views among some. Not every Muslim is like that.
Nor was every German in the 1930's a Nazi.
it only takes a very active minority for the tail to wag the entire dog.
-
Ah! the Manic Necrophile of the Aspie Elite is back.
Now I can stop worrying that you went off and did something sensible :)
-
Hi, Walkie and Pappy. :santa:
-
Hi, Walkie and Pappy. :santa:
Hi, little furry critter :)
-
Ah! the Manic Necrophile of the Aspie Elite is back.
Now I can stop worrying that you went off and did something sensible :)
And yet you're here.