sure if you feel it's best to post it go ahead.
we can do this pissed off thing all over again. 
Thanks, Bjork . ...um ...Bork?
(have I ben mis-spelling your name, all this time? eek)
anyway, thanks
[
Ok. Here ‘s that post that kept me up all night. Frankly i’d sooner join in with posting poems right now but it’s probably best to get this off my chest. Hopefully, it explains more than it offends., especially since I really don’t want a long, involved discussion about it. I don't think I have anything left to ad anymore, after this, not even if this discussion continues (not sure, but it looks dead to me, right now). And I'm not really interested in demanding any more answers from Bjork. I think I gave her quite enough of an (accidental) roasting, already.
(continuing from my earlier post to Bjork....)This story began, for me, shortly after the demise of IntensityI, when I made friends with a man who was very badly hurt (well ,in the midst of a breakdown, IMO, speaking from experience, and without exaggeration). It was clear that a number of people on nlands and Intensity had contributed to his pain, but I wasn’t inclined to believe that any one of those [people had deliberately set out to hurt him, and neither was Pyraxis (who’s friendship with him deepened at around the same time) I don’t think either one of us was interested in assigning blame to anyone, just doing our best to be supportive He really should’ve had professional support, but as a psychologist himself, he was pretty damned wary of other psychologists. He was pretty wary of people who offered him friendship , too, come to that, especially Pyraxis (she does something of Lucifer’s style about her, after all) , but she slowly earned his trust. And mine.
We talked at length about various people who’d played a significant role in neuroman’s life, but not much about Lucifer. I didn’t think her part was especially significant at first (a naïve assumption, on my part, based on the fact that she seldom came up in conversation) but I’ve recently come round to another view . That was pretty much in parallel with Pyraxis calling out Vivi (an event that surprised me as much as anyone) I was just a few days ahead of the rest of the people on this board , in seeing those logs., and the impact of seeing them was relfected in my posts(which quickly lost whatever neutrality thety had to begin with) In the course of reading them (and chatting about it, in private) I’ve come to agree with Pyraxis POV: Lucifer’s assault on neuroman’s mind was pre-wanked like a sex-starved chimp deliberate. I’m pretty convinced that Lucifer hacked Intensity too, just as Pyraxis claims (though I doubt it’s possible to prove that conclusively) And for reasons which I hope to make clear (and probably won’t succeed , but not for lack of trying) I feel obligated to say so.
I don’t expect you’ll agree with Pyaxis, Bjork, , not even if you read those logs, and acceopt that they’re genuine (If they were faked, don’t you think that Lucifer would’ve been the first to say so ?) I don’t tthink that the evidence is strong enough to stand up in this kind of “courtâ€, nor to convince Lucifer’s friends. . I fear that all that’s gonna come of this call-out, is a lot of bad feeling., and pain on both sides. But maybe I’m wrong.= about that. I hope I’m wrong about that, and I
can think of ways in which this might do more good than harm, in the long run, after all. (fingers crossed)
Anyway, I’ve come down off my fence, in full support of Pyraxis, because both she and neuroman are friends of mine.,and neither one of them has anything like the full-blooded support that Lucifer has. And I agree with her that publishing those logs was justifiable, under the circmstances. I’m not sure it was sensible, but it was justifiable, IMO.
If Pytraxis and neuroman only had more support, I ‘d leave well alone, ‘cause I don’t think my own support is worth very much on Intensity,. I don’t have any credibility round here, so I’m afraid that my support only harms her case.But maybe it helps her morale. That swings it. I understand all too well how painful it can be to be to be in their position, and how much it can mean to have someone on your side.
You’re thinking of Pryaxis and neuroman as the aggressors in this dispute, so you probably don’t care if they get hurt by it, but I care, of course;
I can well understand your feeling that I’m “butting inâ€. I expected to hear that left-right-and-centre, ‘cause, unlike neuroman, Pyraxis and virtually everybody else round here, I can’t claim to know Lucifer. I surely wouldn’t have the nerve to express an opinion on Lucifer…except that I think it would be craven of me to keep out of this, all things considered. And, as someone who’s more familiar with the aftermath of the Intensity debacle (from neuroman’s POV, that is) than anyone else here (save Pyraxis, and neuroman himself) I do have a few relevant things to say, after all.
In fact, since you ‘re a friend of Lucifer, Bjork, but you don’t know neuroman, I suppose you and I have approximately equal rights to butt in,. (I’m glad I though of that. That makes me feel better about it
)
I wrote a long post to McJ, in which I tried to put these allegations against Vivi into context. I was hoping he (and others) would appreciate, at the very least, why Pyraxis is so flaming angry with Lucifer, even if they believe that she’s wrong.to blame Vivi. But that post only got dismissed by McJ as political propoganda , and otherwise ignored.
Huh. Maybe it’s the way I tell ‘em? When McJ lists all the ills he blames neuroman for, I think he’s wrong to blame neuroman for all that, (and I know too well that his self-righteous tirades against neuroman are having a destructive effect, what’s more)… and yet I can understand his feelings, in that light. I can even symopathise with his feelings, and so can Pyraxis. Believe it or not , she’s even acted as McJ’s apologist, on several occasions, at the risk of undermining neuroman’s trust in her. She’s that fair-minded, believe it or not.
When I made it clear that neuroman wound up in a state that I can only describe as a “breakdown†as a result of all these pressures. I naively imagine that people might be as generous to Pyraxis, as Pyraxis has been to McJ and others. I imagined they might say to themselves “And Pyraxis blames Lucifer for that? Oh! No wonder she’s so angry with Lucifer †irrespective of whether they agree with Pyraxis’ POV.
The hell they do. Even when people point out that Pyraxis and neuroman are in a relationship, IRL, doe that help to validate her feelings? . Oh, no, not in the least That just invalidates her POV, apparently (whilst Lucifer’s close friends claim that gives them a more valid POV than anybody else. And no-one pulls them up for hypocrisy) Because Pyraxis’ feelings are clearly sincere, for a change, they become a target for all kinds of snide, belittling remarks, from Lucifer and everyone else.
And you expect her to care about Lucifer’s feelings? Well, it really looks to me like Lucifer already has a lot more sympathy than most people ever get. and it’s high time Pyraxis got a slice of that pie. Not to mention neuroman. -you know that “sissy lal-la who’s hiding behind his mama’s skirts†.(That shows how much you care about his feelings, doesn’t it? and, btw, what makes you think he isn’t here, Bjork? He’s actually posted several times over, and he didn’t make it hard to guess his identity). Is that how you normally speak to a victim of abuse?
Yes, that’s what he is. A victim of abuse. You can conclude the abuse was unintentiional , if you like, but that doesn’t make it any less real; and that doesn’t undo the damage. Maybe confronting Lucifer (with Pyraxis’; help) will help undo the damage. That’s one good reason why it might be worth pursuing this fiasco, after all..
You say it a personal matter, between thsee two. I wish it was that simple. But it’s all bound up with the fate of Intensity isn’t it? And who’s the public whipping-boy for Intensity’s demise? Neuroman.is. Just consider for a moment that he might be unjustly accused of that, and imagine how that would feel..
In a bitter dispurte like this, it’s usually possible to sympathise with both points of view. In my experience, Pyraxis usually does have sympathy with both sides (not that she goes around with sympathy written all over her , but come down on somebody hard enough, and that usually brings it out, doesn’t it?) How many others here make that effort? IMO, she’s not only supporting somebody she’s close to, but she’s investing her sympathy where it’s actually needed (as usual) . When Lucifer is down, or under attack, she fhas loads of people rallying around her, making sympathetic noises. By contrast, when Neuroman’s been down, or under attack, he’s had so much “tough love†from those who supposedly care, that he can’t tell his friends from his enemies. He’s been reduced to hiding from his friend and enemies alike. Why does that happen? Because he looks like a “sissy-la-la†next to Lucifer? Huh I dunno, but that’s pretty damned sad , if so. . That’s just the kind of thing that happens in the playground isn’t it?
If you think that Lucifer is in danger of breaking under the pressure ,just because one ex-friend of hers is calling her out (well, maybe two, counting Scrapheap) , and a few relatively insignificant members like Hardon and myself are taking her side, and getting predictably hammerered ; well, then, Lucifer must be a whole lot weaker than neuroman is,, because it took a lot more than that to break him. He had the people he thought of as his closest friends,relentless finding fault with him, and making him into a scapegoat before he buckled under the strain.
Well, I do believe (like I said) that a real friend is willing to accept that their friend isn’t perfect, and that they’re sometimes culpable. But that’s surely going much too far towards the opposite extreme. What the heck could he have possibly done to deserve all that? His biggest crime at this juncture, appears to be, that he finally buckled under the strain, couldn’t cope very well with his remaining responsibilities, and couldn’t explain himself to McJ and Sophist’ s satisfaction. Heck, he could barely even talk, a lot of the time. He was reduced to that state of “typing random charactersâ€, again and again and again. And still McJ pursued him wtih his aggressive “tough love†approach, regardless.
Yeah, I‘m sure Pyraxis would be baying for McJ’s blood as well, if she didn’t believe he was well-intentioned. Maybe McJ’s approaches were so devastating , partly because they were too reminiscent of Lucifer? And maybe Lucifer’s approach was so devastating, because it was too reminscent of other things, in his past, IRL (things you’d definitely call abusive, Bjork, without a doubt) ) Like most victims of abuse, he didn’t ever speak out against those things. And maybe speaking out against Lucifer will help him come to terms with all that. It often happens that way. What’s that word? Ah! “Catharsis†. But that’s psychobabble, I suppose. It’s bloody hard to make a statement on this kind of thing without using a bit of psychobabble.
Maybe Lucifer really is as vulnerable as you seem to be suggesting; but if one or two people choose to care about neuroman’s feelings, rather than Lucifer’s , when it comes to crunch; sorry, but I still think that’s only fair and humane. Come the day when Lucifer is actually running short of sympathy, she’ll probably get some sympathy from Pyraxis, (heck, Pyraxis even took Hiro’s part, just because nobody else did, and she thought that even Hiro deserved a sympathetic hearing) but I really don’t think that day is ever coming I think Lucifer will always have sympathisers, come what may
Well, anyway, if this doesn’t explain, to people’s satisfaction, why I’m fighting in Pyraxis’ corner, I give up. Just call me another cold-hearted, manipulative bitch who doesn’t give a damn about poor Lucifer’s feelings. . I can live with that, ‘cause I ‘ve got friends who believe in me. So does Lucifer (loads of ‘em). And so does Pyraxis? (Hmm. Well, I can think of two, both distinctly lacking in credibility round here. But that might have to do ) And so does neuroman? Heck, I very much hope so.
(*sigh* Good luck , Lazarus. Hope I haven’t said anything I shouldn’t have said)
