So. Wtf is with this viral virus spreading lies and ideological poisons even more effectively than Richard butthole Carrier?
"Feminism" is the just western female copyright of what people normally do when they want human rights.
It could easily be called human rights. Or civil rights.
By calling it feminism you just limit the demographic.
No. Feminism is not in the interests of men. At its best it may have some side benefits for men but that is not its focus. At worse it is diametrically opposed to interests of men.
Its bullshit to suggest it is for all of us or that there is an equivalent.
Feminism is NOT human rights as human rights are for humans and feminism is for women.
That is not to say all aspects of feminism are bad or all proponents of feminism (feminists) are bad. It is not so.
Were it not for the feminism my girl would not have the opportunities and ability to be able to confidently be an independent woman in the world.
Not everything that feminism touches is good, not all feminist are asking for equal rights...many go further or simply seek to make a noise.
Feminism to me is like religion, you can certainly find good things done in its name or good people who are strident feminists. The same could be said of religion and the religious. Those who buy into the "holiness" of feminism and the "truth" of it are buying into bullshit
QuoteSo. Wtf is with this viral virus spreading lies and ideological poisons even more effectively than Richard butthole Carrier?
It's a way of communicating. Some people feel alone in their struggle.
When a campaign like this starts it shows people that they are not alone.
It is a way of uniting similarily interested people.
No. Feminism is not in the interests of men. At its best it may have some side benefits for men but that is not its focus. At worse it is diametrically opposed to interests of men.
Its bullshit to suggest it is for all of us or that there is an equivalent.
Feminism is NOT human rights as human rights are for humans and feminism is for women.
That is not to say all aspects of feminism are bad or all proponents of feminism (feminists) are bad. It is not so.
Were it not for the feminism my girl would not have the opportunities and ability to be able to confidently be an independent woman in the world.
Not everything that feminism touches is good, not all feminist are asking for equal rights...many go further or simply seek to make a noise.
Feminism to me is like religion, you can certainly find good things done in its name or good people who are strident feminists. The same could be said of religion and the religious. Those who buy into the "holiness" of feminism and the "truth" of it are buying into bullshit
Women are humans...right?
The trend is to include all genders, which is why it's turning out to be like a civil rights/human rights thingy. There are human rights: which include rights for women, right for children, rights for indigenous, etc etc.
I find the name "feminism" to be...divisive and unnecessary. And it often is used as a banner for extremists...people who only want to make noise...etc. It also has a tendency towards attacking certain cultures over others.
No. Feminism is not in the interests of men. At its best it may have some side benefits for men but that is not its focus. At worse it is diametrically opposed to interests of men.
Its bullshit to suggest it is for all of us or that there is an equivalent.
Feminism is NOT human rights as human rights are for humans and feminism is for women.
That is not to say all aspects of feminism are bad or all proponents of feminism (feminists) are bad. It is not so.
Were it not for the feminism my girl would not have the opportunities and ability to be able to confidently be an independent woman in the world.
Not everything that feminism touches is good, not all feminist are asking for equal rights...many go further or simply seek to make a noise.
Feminism to me is like religion, you can certainly find good things done in its name or good people who are strident feminists. The same could be said of religion and the religious. Those who buy into the "holiness" of feminism and the "truth" of it are buying into bullshit
Women are humans...right?
The trend is to include all genders, which is why it's turning out to be like a civil rights/human rights thingy. There are human rights: which include rights for women, right for children, rights for indigenous, etc etc.
I find the name "feminism" to be...divisive and unnecessary. And it often is used as a banner for extremists...people who only want to make noise...etc. It also has a tendency towards attacking certain cultures over others.
And placing all the blame on this entity called "the patriarchy" instead of taking responsibility for one's own actions against people of the opposite gender.
"Oh, false accusations of rape thrive within our society? Yeah, blame it on the patriarchy; it's not women's fault."
As you age, rage, you will get it.
You are currently under the mind control of those that wish to divide. Division among the masses keeps them in control.
Focus, boy!
Rage, why do you advocate rape?
Rage, why do you advocate rape?
Dexter, why do you insist that I advocate rape for refusing to be a part of a movement that says someone can rape without touching a person?
Its balls to the wall fucktarded, dude. These types of movements used to mean something positive, but now its just a bunch of assholes living cushy lives who experience some momentary discomfort because they made bad choices, and need a "movement" to help absolve them of responsibility and put it on someone else.
If some chick whips out a tit at a concert in front of a bunch of horny dudes, shes making a very idiotic choice and placing herself in danger.
Same as if a guy pulled his pants down and bent over at a fucking gaybar. Wtf do you think is going to happen? Chances are some dude or chick'll cop a feel. Rape? No. The consequences of someone being a fucking idiot.
No. Feminism is not in the interests of men. At its best it may have some side benefits for men but that is not its focus. At worse it is diametrically opposed to interests of men.
Its bullshit to suggest it is for all of us or that there is an equivalent.
Feminism is NOT human rights as human rights are for humans and feminism is for women.
That is not to say all aspects of feminism are bad or all proponents of feminism (feminists) are bad. It is not so.
Were it not for the feminism my girl would not have the opportunities and ability to be able to confidently be an independent woman in the world.
Not everything that feminism touches is good, not all feminist are asking for equal rights...many go further or simply seek to make a noise.
Feminism to me is like religion, you can certainly find good things done in its name or good people who are strident feminists. The same could be said of religion and the religious. Those who buy into the "holiness" of feminism and the "truth" of it are buying into bullshit
Women are humans...right?
The trend is to include all genders, which is why it's turning out to be like a civil rights/human rights thingy. There are human rights: which include rights for women, right for children, rights for indigenous, etc etc.
I find the name "feminism" to be...divisive and unnecessary. And it often is used as a banner for extremists...people who only want to make noise...etc. It also has a tendency towards attacking certain cultures over others.
No. Feminism is not in the interests of men. At its best it may have some side benefits for men but that is not its focus. At worse it is diametrically opposed to interests of men.
Its bullshit to suggest it is for all of us or that there is an equivalent.
Feminism is NOT human rights as human rights are for humans and feminism is for women.
That is not to say all aspects of feminism are bad or all proponents of feminism (feminists) are bad. It is not so.
Were it not for the feminism my girl would not have the opportunities and ability to be able to confidently be an independent woman in the world.
Not everything that feminism touches is good, not all feminist are asking for equal rights...many go further or simply seek to make a noise.
Feminism to me is like religion, you can certainly find good things done in its name or good people who are strident feminists. The same could be said of religion and the religious. Those who buy into the "holiness" of feminism and the "truth" of it are buying into bullshit
Women are humans...right?
The trend is to include all genders, which is why it's turning out to be like a civil rights/human rights thingy. There are human rights: which include rights for women, right for children, rights for indigenous, etc etc.
I find the name "feminism" to be...divisive and unnecessary. And it often is used as a banner for extremists...people who only want to make noise...etc. It also has a tendency towards attacking certain cultures over others.
Correct. Women are humans. Not that there was the need to ask that was there? Not that what I said put it into question,right?
It is not just the name that is divisive. It you re amed the philosophies and values, they would still be divisive.
It is fine to take issue with extremists, but that is like not blaming the Catholic Church on its problems and calling it an issue with a few "bad priests"
Men fear feminism because they are afraid to lose special birthrights that gender bestows. I say up with women. Thank to religion and make fear they have been kept down far too long.
I believe, what best for others is also best for me. I have no desire to keep anyone in their place.
What don't you hate?
Why do you feel that you are demonstrating a hard working demeanor when you are constantly pointing your finger at others.
I just pointed a finger and boy, could I use a nap. :hahaha:
What's wrong with letting others live the best way they know how?
As a little girl i heard about Emiline Pankhurst and the Suffragettes movement. 'Wow' i thought when i heard of how they handcuffed themselves to Downing st, and how they got arrested.the best way to move coward is by putting one foot in from of the other and repeat.
They were hero status for a time. *the suffragettes fought for women*
and then i grew up and read the books for myself. :'(
I was gutted to learn that actually they were only interested in obtaining the vote for certain types of women. That is women with status and women with money. They were not interested in elevating women in general. They were only interested in furthering themselves and those women who enjoyed upper class status.
They were quickly knocked off the pedestal. It was disappointing. :grrr:
As a little girl i heard about Emiline Pankhurst and the Suffragettes movement. 'Wow' i thought when i heard of how they handcuffed themselves to Downing st, and how they got arrested.the best way to move coward is by putting one foot in from of the other and repeat.
They were hero status for a time. *the suffragettes fought for women*
and then i grew up and read the books for myself. :'(
I was gutted to learn that actually they were only interested in obtaining the vote for certain types of women. That is women with status and women with money. They were not interested in elevating women in general. They were only interested in furthering themselves and those women who enjoyed upper class status.
They were quickly knocked off the pedestal. It was disappointing. :grrr:
Change always seems to happen slowly. IMHO, if they were interested in the vote for the privileged class of women then they were putting one foot in front of the other.
As a little girl i heard about Emiline Pankhurst and the Suffragettes movement. 'Wow' i thought when i heard of how they handcuffed themselves to Downing st, and how they got arrested.the best way to move coward is by putting one foot in from of the other and repeat.
They were hero status for a time. *the suffragettes fought for women*
and then i grew up and read the books for myself. :'(
I was gutted to learn that actually they were only interested in obtaining the vote for certain types of women. That is women with status and women with money. They were not interested in elevating women in general. They were only interested in furthering themselves and those women who enjoyed upper class status.
They were quickly knocked off the pedestal. It was disappointing. :grrr:
Change always seems to happen slowly. IMHO, if they were interested in the vote for the privileged class of women then they were putting one foot in front of the other.
My main political issue is workers rights.
I believe the main nemeses to workers rights is the exploitation of labor by capitalism practiced to its nth degree. I see major retailers as the #1 target on my hit list. All down the supply chain they exploit workers and demand this through their buying power and market share.
Walmart (Asda for you) is the biggest of the big. And it is their business model that others need to consider if they wish to compete.
Now, I'd love to see them all fall and emerge in their place the "mom and pop" store.
Even though I think that Target, Hobby Lobby, Staples, etc should all fall I concentrate my efforts on Walmart. They, to me, are an appropriate first step. Watch them fall and see labor rise, IMHO.
So I snipe. I make correlations between their customers and fat people, short-sided people and lazy, etc. small steps. I try to convince one person at a time, through shame or reasoned debate not to shop there.
If that first step is ever accomplished I will move on to Target for instance.
Every step I toppling the system is ok. Therefore I support feminism because I am anti status quo.
Now your marriage breaks down after many years and your now ex-wife gets custody of the children. She gets to stay in the house and you have to move out, and to help support you, you get nothing. To support her she gets 25% of your pay, and a government pension and child support from government as well as access to a variety of services. Between tax, child support and the new increased costs you are struggling far worse than she.
You dutifully pay your dues though because you are a good Dad.
The divorce comes through. The house is the only real asset....apart from your super. Effectively you get about 16% of what she does.
You move to the other side of the country on a mutual decision to both relocate for better schooling. You do the right thing. You move into rental and spend the next 6 months getting a new job and trying to settle in the place. You know no-one but the kids and her....only in the first month she decides she does not want you to see the kids.
She can't do that because you are all equal...right? Wrong! Thanks to feminism and women's rights, she can.
You go to the only men's rights institution around and explain you have no money as you have only just got a job and can not afford a lawyer. They say "That must feel bad. Do you need counselling?"
"No" you say, "I need to see my kids and they need to see me. What can you do to help?" They say "nothing"
"But I have researched and there are at least a half a dozen Women's centres and support units that WILL help if I was a woman"
"Yeah...I know. Sorry...we just can't..."
So you take out loans and credit cards to pay for lawyers to fight for your rights. You have heard of other guys this has been done to, who gave up and regretted it.
Nine months of not seeing your kids, running on nervous energy and not sleeping. Not knowing anyone where you live. Heart broken. Stressed.
But court will right it all. In court there will be comeuppance. No. In court she lies in deposition. Judge treats you like an arsehole and you get fuck all access and to rub salt into wounds she insists on supervised access initially. Is her parenting judged or for question? No, because she is a woman and Mother.
You see them just before Christmas. By January you start waking at nights with chest pain. It eventually goes. Sometimes you throw up. You walk it off. Work is suffering. These incidences increase in frequency and severity. You have no support. You eventually have a heart attack 4 months later. You are 35.
Still no support from anyone. You struggle on and do not miss one single access visit.
Your ex has bought a house and moved in with a bloke.
You are in a bad way. Less time at work means you are more than struggling to pay tax, loan repayments, child support and such.
You spend years fending off debt collectors, the child support agency and keep a home big enough to fulfill your obligations under the court orders that were slanted against you because you were male.
That is another side of what feminism will do. It IS NOT a human rights movement. It is a women's rights movement. They are concerned with women getting the most that they can and to right the inequalities against them in society. If a man gets trampled on then who gives a fuck?
Albert, I didn't think you liked to argue from a position of emotion.
Instead of saying, "oh the system is not fair" change it instead.
The reason why there are so many support systems in place for women is because of millennia of male abuse against them. They organized and some dedicated their lives to the equity and advancement of women.
If you think that men cannot get affordable representation, for instance, then organize with like minded men and change it.
My main argument will always be....
Stop pointing fingers at others. If you don't like it, change it. Division keeps us all down.
My main political issue is workers rights.
I believe the main nemeses to workers rights is the exploitation of labor by capitalism practiced to its nth degree. I see major retailers as the #1 target on my hit list. All down the supply chain they exploit workers and demand this through their buying power and market share.
Walmart (Asda for you) is the biggest of the big. And it is their business model that others need to consider if they wish to compete.
Now, I'd love to see them all fall and emerge in their place the "mom and pop" store.
Even though I think that Target, Hobby Lobby, Staples, etc should all fall I concentrate my efforts on Walmart. They, to me, are an appropriate first step. Watch them fall and see labor rise, IMHO.
So I snipe. I make correlations between their customers and fat people, short-sided people and lazy, etc. small steps. I try to convince one person at a time, through shame or reasoned debate not to shop there.
If that first step is ever accomplished I will move on to Target for instance.
Every step I toppling the system is ok. Therefore I support feminism because I am anti status quo.
Property!
Still are in much of the world. Not taken seriously much in the rest.
Walmart fucking loves the women's movement, though. It effectively doubled the workforce, making wages decrease and destroyed union influence due to the princple of supply/demand.good point.
Men are afraid that their birthright is being taken away....and it is. :hahaha:
The :bounce: are winning.
I don't know. I just observe large chunks of people experiencing a slight misstep in their cushy little life, and then retaliating with a MOVEMENT that takes rights and comfort from others to the point that others are treated like dirt, while the MOVEMENT looks down their nose at them, and treates them like vile and evil subhumans.lol.
We are ALL humans you retarded pieces of shit.
It's the rage from you. The fear from others. I find it funny.Lost me there, bro.
Men are afraid that their birthright is being taken away....and it is. :hahaha:
The :bounce: are winning.
Albert, I admire your fight. Even your meager success. It's just that the women's coalition is winning the battle. Men are, a.) paying for the sins of their father and b.) not united.
I wish the best for women, just like you. And I hope that I am never in the situation where I am fighting for the right to see my kid.
Walmart fucking loves the women's movement, though. It effectively doubled the workforce, making wages decrease and destroyed union influence due to the princple of supply/demand.good point.
What precipitated the women's movement? Lesbians?
Or irresponsible, entitled males?
Walmart fucking loves the women's movement, though. It effectively doubled the workforce, making wages decrease and destroyed union influence due to the princple of supply/demand.good point.
What precipitated the women's movement? Lesbians?
Or irresponsible, entitled males?
The decrease in child mortality rates due to sanitation, vaccination, and antibiotics have allowed women to have more spare time in their adulthood. Because of modern medicine, they do not have to spend time caring for sick children or give birth to more children if their one of children died. As a result, they now have potential for becoming more than a baby making machine.
boy, you are an impatient git aren't you?Men are afraid that their birthright is being taken away....and it is. :hahaha:
The :bounce: are winning.
The idea that men have a birthright (that women lack) in our society is a delusion. We're not talking about the Islamic world here.
So are you going to answer my question? Or are you just going to dodge?
boy, you are an impatient git aren't you?Men are afraid that their birthright is being taken away....and it is. :hahaha:
The :bounce: are winning.
The idea that men have a birthright (that women lack) in our society is a delusion. We're not talking about the Islamic world here.
So are you going to answer my question? Or are you just going to dodge?
April 9th marked the 59th anniversary of the equal pay act. Still women earn .77 to every mans $1.00
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/women-and-equal-pay-wage-gap_n_3038806.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/09/women-and-equal-pay-wage-gap_n_3038806.html)
That means everything. You were born a male, and statistically speaking you will make a couple hundred thousand more dollars in your life than a woman who works as much and has the same education.
Compound that inequity by the amount you will also receive in retirement from SS due to the amount more that you were privileged enough to earn therefore contribute.
Imagine you having to deal with getting raped as a male. Nice thought right? Not so much for women. Yet it is a reality.
http://www.rainn.org/statistics (http://www.rainn.org/statistics)
These are to name just acouple of the inequities that women face.
I was nice enough and gave you some links. But I do believe the burden of proof is on the make who thinks things are just honky dory. And everything is equal.
April 9th marked the 59th anniversary of the equal pay act. Still women earn .77 to every mans $1.00
That means everything. You were born a male, and statistically speaking you will make a couple hundred thousand more dollars in your life than a woman who works as much and has the same education.
Imagine you having to deal with getting raped as a male. Nice thought right? Not so much for women. Yet it is a reality.
http://www.rainn.org/statistics (http://www.rainn.org/statistics)
These are to name just acouple of the inequities that women face.
I was nice enough and gave you some links. But I do believe the burden of proof is on the make who thinks things are just honky dory. And everything is equal.
And in some places they are paid half.
Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
"Feminism" is the just western female copyright of what people normally do when they want human rights.I largely agree. I think it depends on which "wave" of feminism you're talking about, but I think the word "feminism" is really charged, yet does not mean the same thing to everyone. The word tends to turn me off, personally, because I usually assume it means "getting pissy about how oppressed women are, and getting hysterical when data is at all questioned." However, I do think some people who self-identify as feminists do actually think rationally and are for equality, and identify as such as a subset of being for human rights/equality in general, else are particularly focused on equal rights for both (/all) genders.
It could easily be called human rights. Or civil rights.
By calling it feminism you just limit the demographic. But, calling yourself a feminist can be construed as calling yourself "for" women's human rights, or "against" oppression of women. Yet...I am not entirely sold on the term because the focus is so narrow. True feminism (if you will), would not be limited to women...and as such, it would not be FEM, it would be human. So why the name?
this was the main reason I chose not to respond. In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
al, in America we just celebrated our 50th anniversary of the equal pay act. Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.And in some places they are paid half.
In Australia, for doing the same job as the men do? Doubt it.
this was the main reason I chose not to respond. In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal. No matter how you try and justify it.
not only just a small percentage of all rapes but the consequences are not even the same.this was the main reason I chose not to respond. In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal. No matter how you try and justify it.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that men getting raped is an exception?
Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.
it goes back to my entitlement by birthright argument. Thanks for understanding.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.
Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.
not only just a small percentage of all rapes but the consequences are not even the same.this was the main reason I chose not to respond. In all his replies he took the exception and applied it to the whole.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
Rape is nowhere close to being equal. No matter how you try and justify it.
I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Are you implying that men getting raped is an exception?
impatient and dense.Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.
Any evidence?
it goes back to my entitlement by birthright argument. Thanks for understanding.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.
Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.
The idea that men can just take women is something inherent to our culture.
it goes back to my entitlement by birthright argument. Thanks for understanding.Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.
Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.
The idea that men can just take women is something inherent to our culture.
Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.
Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.
impatient and dense.
I already provided a link. You can do your own research.
I have to go to work. See, instead of crying that life isn't fair, that the women's rights coalition is beating us poor men down, I choose to do something for myself. Right now I'm going to earn a living.
Also, instead of living in fear that everybody is against the straight white male I embrace others plight for equity. I choose to not live in fear.
It is quite freeing, others should try it.
In the meantime, I am happy to see women earn at the same rate as men. Have health protections such as abortion rights. Happy to see them free from being the property of men. These are good things. I wish them more of it.
Ah, the old false rape charge.
I see you didn't read my links. Thank you for playing anyways. It is estimated that about 94% of all rapes go unprosecuted.
Not personal attacks. You showed impatience by stating that I was dodging. When in fact I was bust.
Dense because you didn't read the links (benefit of doubt) or understand them (likely).
I didn't start by making personal attacks. You proved yourself worthy
No slow down. Drop all your preconceived notions. Do some research and come back.
He already did some research, he led you in the direction that he was alluding to, did you even take a look at the link!? I didn't but then again i'm not actively arguing about it, but i do find your increase in writing temperature amusing!
He already did some research, he led you in the direction that he was alluding to, did you even take a look at the link!? I didn't but then again i'm not actively arguing about it, but i do find your increase in writing temperature amusing!
You didn't, but I did. So shut it. :P
Al, if you're wondering why people are getting confused, then maybe you should look at the title of this thread... that is the context for this thread right, so bringing up rape in the thread is adding extra confusion to the topic right!?
I think that rape is up there with any other crime you would choose to throw out there. Men who do this are subhuman and oxygen thieves. I know that this has somehow been tied into a debate on equality. So what is the argument in general terms?
Because it happens to more women than men it is an inequality? That would be a silly argument.
It should happen to more men to realign the balance? That would be odd
More women should be given the opportunity to be rapists to close the difference in the percentage of male to female perpetrators? Odd
Ought it REALLY have a place in equality debates? Ought men similarly make demands to be able to carry babies or give birth as an equality issue?
It all seems silly. Rape is many horrible things. It is an important issue in its own right but hijacking it into an equality debate is bizzare
I think that rape is up there with any other crime you would choose to throw out there. Men who do this are subhuman and oxygen thieves. I know that this has somehow been tied into a debate on equality. So what is the argument in general terms?i made a point about birthright entitlement. I was questioned about that. It has everything to do with it. And societal conditioning.
Because it happens to more women than men it is an inequality? That would be a silly argument.
It should happen to more men to realign the balance? That would be odd
More women should be given the opportunity to be rapists to close the difference in the percentage of male to female perpetrators? Odd
Ought it REALLY have a place in equality debates? Ought men similarly make demands to be able to carry babies or give birth as an equality issue?
It all seems silly. Rape is many horrible things. It is an important issue in its own right but hijacking it into an equality debate is bizzare
I think that rape is up there with any other crime you would choose to throw out there. Men who do this are subhuman and oxygen thieves. I know that this has somehow been tied into a debate on equality. So what is the argument in general terms?i made a point about birthright entitlement. I was questioned about that. It has everything to do with it. And societal conditioning.
Because it happens to more women than men it is an inequality? That would be a silly argument.
It should happen to more men to realign the balance? That would be odd
More women should be given the opportunity to be rapists to close the difference in the percentage of male to female perpetrators? Odd
Ought it REALLY have a place in equality debates? Ought men similarly make demands to be able to carry babies or give birth as an equality issue?
It all seems silly. Rape is many horrible things. It is an important issue in its own right but hijacking it into an equality debate is bizzare
Al, you gave one example where women, may or may not be more equal than men. Itwas personal for you and I can appreciate your plight. However, I believe a women's coalition is necessary in Orr to fight for equality. I need further proof that women ARE, IN FACT, TREATED EQUALLY IN SOCIETY.
I just don't see it.
Evidence would help. Thesis papers not so much.
If you have sex with a woman and a pregnancy occurs who is left holding the bag?
In America there is a huge drive by conservatives to limit or even ban abortions. And access to birth control. These are huge examples of why women are not treated equally.
Men, in America, work less or even quit their jobs before they go to court for child support hearings.
The correlation between these actions proves that women are not treated fairly simply because if gender and procreative ability.
Couple that with unequal pay, which exists and women are simply kept in their place....relying on men for comfort and survival. Subservient is their place.
impatient and dense.Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.
Any evidence?
I already provided a link. You can do your own research.
I have to go to work. See, instead of crying that life isn't fair, that the women's rights coalition is beating us poor men down, I choose to do something for myself. Right now I'm going to earn a living.
Also, instead of living in fear that everybody is against the straight white male I embrace others plight for equity. I choose to not live in fear.
It is quite freeing, others should try it.
In the meantime, I am happy to see women earn at the same rate as men. Have health protections such as abortion rights. Happy to see them free from being the property of men. These are good things. I wish them more of it.
I'm surprised you haven't burst from anger. This kind of thing has been going on from ever since humankind emerged.
I think, for the sake of sanity, it's healthier to just accept that there will always be some form of inequality (or difference) in our lives, whether socially intended or just simply an inevitable outcome of nature.
Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.
Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.
Women are not as weak as you make them out to be. And they are not any more victims of cultural disadvantages than men are.
Al, if you're wondering why people are getting confused, then maybe you should look at the title of this thread... that is the context for this thread right, so bringing up rape in the thread is adding extra confusion to the topic right!?
A man will not get raped in India without severe consequences, mate. There are laws in place there but only the men will be protected by them.
Women are not as weak as you make them out to be. And they are not any more victims of cultural disadvantages than men are.
Care to back this up? Humanity has literally thousands of years to make up for when it comes to women being the victims of "cultural disadvantages", from the right to vote to equal pay to - yes - protection from rape. The list goes on.
Incorrect.
I was specifically challenged on the privelage by birthright claim.
This has everything to do with that.
war on women's health via planned parenthood, abortion, and contraceptives.Incorrect.
I was specifically challenged on the privelage by birthright claim.
This has everything to do with that.
Don't forget the wage thingy.
Incorrect.
I was specifically challenged on the privelage by birthright claim.
This has everything to do with that.
Nice try, but let's first stick to the different pay based on gender for same job argument first. Care to back up the claim that women get less pay for same job and same circumstances based on gender discrimination?care to back up your rebuttal?
Oh, and in the Western world. Don't even go to India or elsewhere.
Nice try, but let's first stick to the different pay based on gender for same job argument first. Care to back up the claim that women get less pay for same job and same circumstances based on gender discrimination?care to back up your rebuttal?
Oh, and in the Western world. Don't even go to India or elsewhere.
I already suggested google lily Ledbetter.
To sum up your argument:
Examples please....yet you don't read them. Nor offer any yourself.
There are laws in place that protect women's equality....yet you state that laws protecting women from being raped in India will do no good.
You say, "there are arguments contrary". Yet offer no logic to support your claim. Nor links. Nor facts.
Then you laugh it all off.
Clever, but not compelling.
A man will not get raped in India without severe consequences, mate. There are laws in place there but only the men will be protected by them.
And what happens if they were to start putting laws in India to protect women from rape?
Are they going to stop being raped all of a sudden? As you stated, even men in India are raped. And yet they're supposed to have rights.
Women are not as weak as you make them out to be. And they are not any more victims of cultural disadvantages than men are.
Care to back this up? Humanity has literally thousands of years to make up for when it comes to women being the victims of "cultural disadvantages", from the right to vote to equal pay to - yes - protection from rape. The list goes on.
History past. Black people are no longer slaves in the USA. So it wouldn't make sense to argue that black people are being deprived of rights now because they used to be slaves in the past.
As for protection of rape, I already made my point clear. It has nothing to do with rights. Rape will continue to be committed regardless of rights.
Nice try, but let's first stick to the different pay based on gender for same job argument first. Care to back up the claim that women get less pay for same job and same circumstances based on gender discrimination?
Oh, and in the Western world. Don't even go to India or elsewhere.
Australia has a persistent gender pay gap. Between 1990 and 2009, the gender pay gap remained within a narrow range of between 15 and 17%.[25] In August 2010, the Australian gender pay gap was 16.9%
Watson also notes that despite the "characteristics of male and female managers being remarkably similar, their earnings are very different, suggesting that discrimination plays an important role in this outcome."
Actually, it was you who wanted the topic to remain focused solely on women in the western world.
I was obliging, reluctantly and for the sake of a challenge.
IMHO, women are women all over the world.
Read up on female genital mutilation.
That's like saying I care about the rights of my daughter but not my nieces.
I enjoy concise.
I support feminism because it is still necessary. Like odeon stated so clearly, it is about societies mindset. Not laws.
Laws help. But women have a long way to go before the birthright of being male is no more.
I agree that my daughters expectations are different than my wife's were when she was their age. And my grand daughter (someday) will be yet different.
Nice try, but let's first stick to the different pay based on gender for same job argument first. Care to back up the claim that women get less pay for same job and same circumstances based on gender discrimination?
Oh, and in the Western world. Don't even go to India or elsewhere.
As a little girl i heard about Emiline Pankhurst and the Suffragettes movement. 'Wow' i thought when i heard of how they handcuffed themselves to Downing st, and how they got arrested.
They were hero status for a time. *the suffragettes fought for women*
and then i grew up and read the books for myself. :'(
I was gutted to learn that actually they were only interested in obtaining the vote for certain types of women. That is women with status and women with money. They were not interested in elevating women in general. They were only interested in furthering themselves and those women who enjoyed upper class status.
They were quickly knocked off the pedestal. It was disappointing. :grrr:
My main political issue is workers rights.
I believe the main nemeses to workers rights is the exploitation of labor by capitalism practiced to its nth degree. I see major retailers as the #1 target on my hit list. All down the supply chain they exploit workers and demand this through their buying power and market share.
Walmart (Asda for you) is the biggest of the big. And it is their business model that others need to consider if they wish to compete.
Now, I'd love to see them all fall and emerge in their place the "mom and pop" store.
Even though I think that Target, Hobby Lobby, Staples, etc should all fall I concentrate my efforts on Walmart. They, to me, are an appropriate first step. Watch them fall and see labor rise, IMHO.
So I snipe. I make correlations between their customers and fat people, short-sided people and lazy, etc. small steps. I try to convince one person at a time, through shame or reasoned debate not to shop there.
If that first step is ever accomplished I will move on to Target for instance.
Every step I toppling the system is ok. Therefore I support feminism because I am anti status quo.
I don't support any isms because they always lean towards one demographic. I will never accept anyone being superior or more important than any other. EVER. No matter how dumb, ugly, smart, or good looking someone may be. No matter what strengths or weaknesses anyone has, EVERYONE is just as important as the next, and deserves the exact same respect and privilege as the person to their left and right.
I will never think any other way. I believe in PURE equality, and I always will. In my mind, if anyone challenges this, they are selfish, and a tyrant to be defeated as soon as possible.
April 9th marked the 59th anniversary of the equal pay act. Still women earn .77 to every mans $1.00
There is still ongoing debate on whether or not this difference is mainly due to gender discrimination. There are so many factors at play here that could contribute to the difference it's hard to pinpoint what exactly. Politicians don't make it easier when they insist they understand statistics perfectly well.
As for what used to go on in history, that's history past and irrelevant now (except for memorial purposes and such). It's like black people still fighting for the abolishing of slavery in the US when it has already long gone.
Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
Have you been following what is going on in India? Rape has everything to do with the rights women have. Or do not have, in this case. In India, it is still possible to get away with rape because society will blame you if you are a victim, the police will actively suggest you to not report the crime, and the judges will be biased if it does go to court.
There may be laws in place for perceived, skin-deep equality but you will be put in your place if you actually seek it.
You can tell that to the feminists in the more civilized nations (like USA) who are too busy attacking an imaginary entity and trying to put men, in general, in a negative light (unless they suck up to them and agree with everything they say) and don't have time to be concerned about the more serious issues going on in other countries like the one you stated.
Also, even if laws were put to protect women from being raped, this wouldn't stop rape from happening. So this shows that having rights is one thing and the probability of getting raped is another thing. There may be a link, but a man or a woman may still get raped within a society that has laws to punish rape.
impatient and dense.Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.
Any evidence?
I already provided a link. You can do your own research.
I have to go to work. See, instead of crying that life isn't fair, that the women's rights coalition is beating us poor men down, I choose to do something for myself. Right now I'm going to earn a living.
Also, instead of living in fear that everybody is against the straight white male I embrace others plight for equity. I choose to not live in fear.
It is quite freeing, others should try it.
In the meantime, I am happy to see women earn at the same rate as men. Have health protections such as abortion rights. Happy to see them free from being the property of men. These are good things. I wish them more of it.
Women are not as weak as you make them out to be. And they are not any more victims of cultural disadvantages than men are.
Care to back this up? Humanity has literally thousands of years to make up for when it comes to women being the victims of "cultural disadvantages", from the right to vote to equal pay to - yes - protection from rape. The list goes on.
History past. Black people are no longer slaves in the USA. So it wouldn't make sense to argue that black people are being deprived of rights now because they used to be slaves in the past.
As for protection of rape, I already made my point clear. It has nothing to do with rights. Rape will continue to be committed regardless of rights.
Equality is a load of shit. In order for it to happen, gender roles have to become completely abolished, something neither gender wants.
I define rights as privileges granted by the state. Now if we're in a country where women are already granted the same rights as men in many aspects (including when it comes to protection from rape), and yet rape continues to happen, what point is it then to argue that women are continually being raped when attempting to show why women still don't have the rights that men have?
Just because one has rights doesn't mean people will respect his/her rights.
Now you mentioned India for some reason when really the original argument between me and McJagger was focused on the women who live in much more fortunate conditions who yell about injustice here and there and shift the blame on every other entity out there instead of owning whatever perceived inequality they may be suffering and doing something about it without implicitly or explicitly putting down the opposite gender for everything that women have gone through.
Men are raped as well, but even so, rape has nothing to do with whether women of today have rights or not that men have.
And as for men in India, they may have privileges and honors that women lack there, but in Australia and USA and the likes, a lot of the time, if a man says he was raped, people tend to not take it as seriously as when women report being raped. Is this not one injustice that men themselves have to face? And yet it is just one of many. People of all sorts face injustice, whether based on gender, race, lack of religion, etc. It's not just women who suffer.
Also, I said that slavery stopped a while ago, but I didn't say that racism itself stopped with slavery. Even today, I notice several racist people against the black. But the point is you would be hard pressed to see a black person being treated as a slave in America.
Gender pay difference leaning in favor of men is understandable if you look at all the factors behind why men altogether have higher pay. In many nations, men have had higher positions, higher privileges, and more reasons to work in high positions than women. Not necessarily due to gender discrimination but due to various social, cultural and even biopsychological differences between both genders.
And yet, it's not always the case that men get higher pay than women.
Consider men and women within the age range of 20-29. Guess which gender is getting higher pay?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men)
I don't think this is due to companies only now ceasing to discriminate against working women based on gender, but simply because more and more women are becoming daring and ambitious when it comes to work within the current zeitgeist and, in addition, to organizations and other groups going out of their way to offer jobs and careers for women only (the university I go to being just one example), it is easy to see why.
Equality is a load of shit. In order for it to happen, gender roles have to become completely abolished, something neither gender wants.
How many rapes do you think your country would have yearly if the laws you have in place were actively being ignored?
That it continues to happen shows that we still have a long way to go. Or do you think that you don't need to consider that mindset I mentioned?
No, but if the laws that are in place to protect those rights are ignored by the ones who should do the protecting, the situation is likely to be worse, don't you think?
No one should be raped, ever. But let's compare the situation in Australia:
(http://www.livingwell.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/ABS%20Stats%20Graph.gif)
The article is here (http://www.livingwell.org.au/information/statistics/) and focusses on childhood sexual abuse and sexual assault of males.
I think it's safe to say that women are at far greater risk. Would you agree? But more importantly, how would you you explain it?
How about other colours?
http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/human-trafficking-modern-day-slavery-america (http://www.wgbhnews.org/post/human-trafficking-modern-day-slavery-america)
And yes, black, too:
http://www.theroot.com/views/black-girls-are-still-enslaved (http://www.theroot.com/views/black-girls-are-still-enslaved)
Not very subtle, I'm afraid, but very real.
The article starts with a rather more sombre "Yes, there is greater equity between the sexes, but overall, the pay gap continues to favour men" and then concludes with "After all, men's earnings start to outstrip women's from the age of 29 – precisely when Mrs Average now has her first child."
But here's the thing: this is an exception to the rule. If there was no gender gap, the statistics would probably fluctuate. But they don't really.
I do think there's a lot to work on yet.
Nice try, but let's first stick to the different pay based on gender for same job argument first. Care to back up the claim that women get less pay for same job and same circumstances based on gender discrimination?
Oh, and in the Western world. Don't even go to India or elsewhere.
this is in my city, and it only shows a tip of the iceberg. it still goes on.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/cost-birmingham-city-council-equal-1766049 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/cost-birmingham-city-council-equal-1766049)
By Neil Elkes
Cost of Birmingham City Council equal pay claims rockets to £890 million
21 Mar 2013 07:00
Councillor calls payouts " a monument to our incompetence" after audit reveals an extra £130m to add on to bill
Share on print Share on email
The Council House. The Council House.
The cost of equal pay claims against Birmingham City Council has rocketed by £130 million to an incredible £890 million after a new bombshell audit.
The total has risen in the last year as new claims have come forward and the council auditors have revised the sums.
Last year another group of 174 former women care, cleaning and catering workers, known as the Abdullah Group who had retired, won the right to make backdated claims against the council, not only adding to the bill but prompting more claims to come forward.
The council has been hammered for failing to meet equal pay regulations by giving discriminatory bonuses and better working conditions to mainly male binmen and road workers, compared to mainly female roles like carers and cleaners.
Did you wear a little apron? :zoinks:Nice try, but let's first stick to the different pay based on gender for same job argument first. Care to back up the claim that women get less pay for same job and same circumstances based on gender discrimination?
Oh, and in the Western world. Don't even go to India or elsewhere.
this is in my city, and it only shows a tip of the iceberg. it still goes on.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/cost-birmingham-city-council-equal-1766049 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/cost-birmingham-city-council-equal-1766049)
By Neil Elkes
Cost of Birmingham City Council equal pay claims rockets to £890 million
21 Mar 2013 07:00
Councillor calls payouts " a monument to our incompetence" after audit reveals an extra £130m to add on to bill
Share on print Share on email
The Council House. The Council House.
The cost of equal pay claims against Birmingham City Council has rocketed by £130 million to an incredible £890 million after a new bombshell audit.
The total has risen in the last year as new claims have come forward and the council auditors have revised the sums.
Last year another group of 174 former women care, cleaning and catering workers, known as the Abdullah Group who had retired, won the right to make backdated claims against the council, not only adding to the bill but prompting more claims to come forward.
The council has been hammered for failing to meet equal pay regulations by giving discriminatory bonuses and better working conditions to mainly male binmen and road workers, compared to mainly female roles like carers and cleaners.
I only read the summary you posted here. I'll check the link later when I have more time to read.
But just wanted to point out:
Cleaners tend to earn less than bin men regardless of gender. I used to be a cleaner at one time.
According to Wikipedia, Australia has one of the highest rates when it comes to rape:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#UN_Sexual_Violence_against_Children_.26_Rape_Statistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#UN_Sexual_Violence_against_Children_.26_Rape_Statistics)
Compare to countries like Greece, Armenia, hell, even Senegal, and notice the big difference. And these are patriarchical countries we're talking about.
Japan is another patriarchical country and it has an extremely low rate.
impatient and dense.Yet women ( on average), in the same job with the same education do not make the same as men.
Any evidence?
I already provided a link. You can do your own research.
I have to go to work. See, instead of crying that life isn't fair, that the women's rights coalition is beating us poor men down, I choose to do something for myself. Right now I'm going to earn a living.
Also, instead of living in fear that everybody is against the straight white male I embrace others plight for equity. I choose to not live in fear.
It is quite freeing, others should try it.
In the meantime, I am happy to see women earn at the same rate as men. Have health protections such as abortion rights. Happy to see them free from being the property of men. These are good things. I wish them more of it.
I owe you a :plus: for that one. Not wanting to live in fear is :viking:
Living in fear is what I see happening more and more. Fear is used by politicians, to find reasons to frisk people without a proper reason, to have security cameras everywhere, to make us tattle tale on neighbours.
Fear is used to make people be overly PC, not because of what they think is just, but because of fear to be reprimanded.
Refusing to be living in fear is a good thing. I hate the fear culture that seems to be forced on us lately. The cold war ended, a reason to be afraid of enemies we had never seen stopped to exist. Politicians found plenty of new reasons, and are using them in abundance.
that is true. It all ties together. I believe that males are born with advantages over females....regardless of law. It is society, religion, strength, etc.Living in fear is what I see happening more and more. Fear is used by politicians, to find reasons to frisk people without a proper reason, to have security cameras everywhere, to make us tattle tale on neighbours.
Fear is used to make people be overly PC, not because of what they think is just, but because of fear to be reprimanded.
Refusing to be living in fear is a good thing. I hate the fear culture that seems to be forced on us lately. The cold war ended, a reason to be afraid of enemies we had never seen stopped to exist. Politicians found plenty of new reasons, and are using them in abundance.
In that case, I agree. I think I have written similar viewpoints here about controlling by fear and so on.
But I red McJagger as trying to make some larger point about an undeignated people living in fear of people against the straight white male. I was wonder ebo they were or who he imagined them to be
Women are not my enemy, though. And I'm certainly not afraid of them nor afraid of them having equal rights.I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Each time you made a statement that proved you didn't even bother to read the statistic portion of the links I provided I simply had to shake my head.
I never did comprehend what McJagger was saying.
So help me learn
Seems like some of the younger males, from America, are expressing rage at the continued
feminist movement
Calavera and al are both from Australia? Right?
I wonder, does religion play a large role in how your country governs itself?
That would be a dream come true. I think in America a paedophile has a much better chance at being elected to a government position than an atheist....it's that bad.So help me learn
Seems like some of the younger males, from America, are expressing rage at the continued
feminist movement
Calavera and al are both from Australia? Right?
I wonder, does religion play a large role in how your country governs itself?
Religion is not a big thing here. Our prime Minister is an Atheist. No one really gives a shit she is (in fact everyone gave her big ups for admitting it).
As stated above, I think what both me and Calavera are saying is that Feminism is good and women's rights are important. Women are and should be considered equal to men. There are countries not so enlightened in gender equality and women's rights and pointing out this lacking is fair. Trying to make a case for that in Western countries like Australia is probably not that relevant, this goes double for introducing the fact that rape still exists in Australia or that gender differences exist in pay (though with this I think that stats would be dodgy). If the law protects both, it is enforceable, it is enforced and there is no cultural bias against it....what further improvements to be made. (No the "well they are heading in the right direction but they still have a way to go". If there is no more to be done they have no way left to go. Game over. Next issue) It is the same as chauvinism or misogyny. If or when it exists then yes it is not a culturally supported position but a personal position.
There are definitely some ongoing battles Feminists are fighting and the more enlightened in society that are worthy and worth discussing. There are some social aspects like the ones I mentioned which should be tackled hard. Rape and Gender discrimination in matters like pay that are protected by law....not so much.
So help me learn
Seems like some of the younger males, from America, are expressing rage at the continued
feminist movement
Calavera and al are both from Australia? Right?
I wonder, does religion play a large role in how your country governs itself?
Religion is not a big thing here. Our prime Minister is an Atheist. No one really gives a shit she is (in fact everyone gave her big ups for admitting it).
As stated above, I think what both me and Calavera are saying is that Feminism is good and women's rights are important. Women are and should be considered equal to men. There are countries not so enlightened in gender equality and women's rights and pointing out this lacking is fair. Trying to make a case for that in Western countries like Australia is probably not that relevant, this goes double for introducing the fact that rape still exists in Australia or that gender differences exist in pay (though with this I think that stats would be dodgy). If the law protects both, it is enforceable, it is enforced and there is no cultural bias against it....what further improvements to be made. (No the "well they are heading in the right direction but they still have a way to go". If there is no more to be done they have no way left to go. Game over. Next issue) It is the same as chauvinism or misogyny. If or when it exists then yes it is not a culturally supported position but a personal position.
There are definitely some ongoing battles Feminists are fighting and the more enlightened in society that are worthy and worth discussing. There are some social aspects like the ones I mentioned which should be tackled hard. Rape and Gender discrimination in matters like pay that are protected by law....not so much.
I'll throw in a devil's advocate comment re: pay gap: Some of it genuinely is due to the different kinds of choices women vs. men make in kinds of professions and prioritization of work/life balance. How much of it, though, is debatable.
I'm not a capitalist. I don think that some jobs should pay more than others. But if some should, then I think teachers and nurses should make more.Nurses actually make pretty good money. The problem with teachers is there isn't a good metric to determine the good ones from the bad ones.
I'll throw in a devil's advocate comment re: pay gap: Some of it genuinely is due to the different kinds of choices women vs. men make in kinds of professions and prioritization of work/life balance. How much of it, though, is debatable.
I'll throw in a devil's advocate comment re: pay gap: Some of it genuinely is due to the different kinds of choices women vs. men make in kinds of professions and prioritization of work/life balance. How much of it, though, is debatable.
Absolutely. And some of those choices really aren't choices.
I was allowed 6 weeks paternal leave when my son was born.
I'll throw in a devil's advocate comment re: pay gap: Some of it genuinely is due to the different kinds of choices women vs. men make in kinds of professions and prioritization of work/life balance. How much of it, though, is debatable.
Absolutely. And some of those choices really aren't choices.
I will tell you that Maternal leave compared to Paternal leave is far from equal. In my days Paternal leave was not around at all. Would have loved some decent time off work to be with my babies
I'll throw in a devil's advocate comment re: pay gap: Some of it genuinely is due to the different kinds of choices women vs. men make in kinds of professions and prioritization of work/life balance. How much of it, though, is debatable.
Absolutely. And some of those choices really aren't choices.
I will tell you that Maternal leave compared to Paternal leave is far from equal. In my days Paternal leave was not around at all. Would have loved some decent time off work to be with my babies
I had a few days off when they were born but nothing like the weeks or even months dads are allowed these days. I had my own company and leave wasn't an option. I would have liked to.
Of course, that part is not a choice for the mother, either. My point when writing the above post that it's just about when their equal pay starts to suffer and the gap starts to show. It is quite common among companies here to "forget" or minimise a raise while the women are on maternal leave. The unions try to monitor such occurrences but it is notoriously difficult to do.
I'll throw in a devil's advocate comment re: pay gap: Some of it genuinely is due to the different kinds of choices women vs. men make in kinds of professions and prioritization of work/life balance. How much of it, though, is debatable.
Absolutely. And some of those choices really aren't choices.
I will tell you that Maternal leave compared to Paternal leave is far from equal. In my days Paternal leave was not around at all. Would have loved some decent time off work to be with my babies
I had a few days off when they were born but nothing like the weeks or even months dads are allowed these days. I had my own company and leave wasn't an option. I would have liked to.
Of course, that part is not a choice for the mother, either. My point when writing the above post that it's just about when their equal pay starts to suffer and the gap starts to show. It is quite common among companies here to "forget" or minimise a raise while the women are on maternal leave. The unions try to monitor such occurrences but it is notoriously difficult to do.
So in some instances women are illegally screwed over by the company and can be found liable if breach is shown, in respect to pay
In all instances men get less paid paternity leave than women get maternity leave, to look after their kids?
Violence & Silence: Jackson Katz, Ph.D at TEDxFiDiWomen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvSfeCRxe8#ws)Here's a good response.
I like that guy's views. Close to what I think. That stupid feminist dumbassman just wants some hairy hippy pussy. I really with people would stop segregating themselves like this. "feminism" UGGH. So much potato in that word.you say potato I say po-tah-toe.
People.
Jack dont click no stinking links.
Jack dont play dat shite.
of course she can. But I'm a post whore.People.
Jack dont click no stinking links.
Jack dont play dat shite.
Jack can speak for herself.
People.
Jack dont click no stinking links.
Jack dont play dat shite.
People.
Jack dont click no stinking links.
Jack dont play dat shite.
Jack can speak for herself.
“When women understand that governments and religions are human inventions; that Bibles, prayer-books, catechisms, and encyclical letters are all emanations from the brains of man, they will no longer be oppressed by the injunctions that come to them with the divine authority of *Thus sayeth the Lord.*”
― Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Most women love religion. Can't help those who can't help themselves.brainwashed
Dexter, or "most women?"Most women love religion. Can't help those who can't help themselves.brainwashed
most religious people.Dexter, or "most women?"Most women love religion. Can't help those who can't help themselves.brainwashed
Religion is more often than not a symptom of a bigger problem.Oh, so's everything else, if you want to frame it that way. There's a huge value in the support being a member of a church community provides- like a secondary or substitute family. I think it does lots of people more good than harm.
If these people really cared about human rights, they would not fight for special intrests within they own retarded demographic. That in itself is SEXIST. Human rights are for all humans, not just females or males. Human equality means human equality. Grow some courage and fight for the shit that really matters, feminists. The fact that the organizations "feminism" and "men's coalition" and whatever the hell else exist, is absolutely selfish and pathetic. Get on my level, and start caring about everyone equally. But not so much that you coddle others as if they're porcelain dolls and make them massive babies.
If these people really cared about human rights, they would not fight for special intrests within they own retarded demographic. That in itself is SEXIST. Human rights are for all humans, not just females or males. Human equality means human equality. Grow some courage and fight for the shit that really matters, feminists. The fact that the organizations "feminism" and "men's coalition" and whatever the hell else exist, is absolutely selfish and pathetic. Get on my level, and start caring about everyone equally. But not so much that you coddle others as if they're porcelain dolls and make them massive babies.
Equal but not the same. Men and women are not the same so basing everything on that assumption will fail.
Moronic, sure, but a reality.
Would there be such a thing as an ist without an ism?
im gonna tug on you til the roots give way.Would there be such a thing as an ist without an ism?
Speak Engrish!!!
Would there be such a thing as an ist without an ism?
As a little girl i heard about Emiline Pankhurst and the Suffragettes movement. 'Wow' i thought when i heard of how they handcuffed themselves to Downing st, and how they got arrested.
They were hero status for a time. *the suffragettes fought for women*
and then i grew up and read the books for myself. :'(
I was gutted to learn that actually they were only interested in obtaining the vote for certain types of women. That is women with status and women with money. They were not interested in elevating women in general. They were only interested in furthering themselves and those women who enjoyed upper class status.
They were quickly knocked off the pedestal. It was disappointing. :grrr:
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)your point needs more of that.
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
Should add before anyone says anything, saying that doesn't devalue the genuine achievements made though. But it's inevitable such groups will follow that path of fulfilling an ulterior motive when it starts running out of serious avenues to exploit.
With my complaint of distraction, I'm referring more to the current third-wave feminism, political correctness and identity politics that exists now which are campaigning to fight against increasingly more trivial matters of society.
You need to get fucked, man.
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)your point needs more of that.
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
And feminism needs more men who do not see women as objects.
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)your point needs more of that.
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
And feminism needs more men who do not see women as objects.
What about the other way around? Why only women?
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
do women see men as objects?http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)your point needs more of that.
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
And feminism needs more men who do not see women as objects.
What about the other way around? Why only women?
do women see men as objects?http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch (http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat?feature=watch)your point needs more of that.
We need more of this :) :thumbup:
And feminism needs more men who do not see women as objects.
What about the other way around? Why only women?
Explain.
life is hard for white boys.
Yes. Everybody would like to lobby for their best interests.
Why, as a straight white male do you think that women, minorities and gays have had enough rights written in their favor?
Because each law written for one of the 'other' groups disenfranchises you a bit more. You are in it for your own best interests.
Get a group together that supports your interest and lobby for those. That's how democracy works, kiddo.
but that's democracy. Get enough people to have a voting bloc that gets noticed. And voila, you have a voice.Yes. Everybody would like to lobby for their best interests.
Why, as a straight white male do you think that women, minorities and gays have had enough rights written in their favor?
Because each law written for one of the 'other' groups disenfranchises you a bit more. You are in it for your own best interests.
Get a group together that supports your interest and lobby for those. That's how democracy works, kiddo.
I refuse. I will not approach things as an "us vs them". Ever.
Or win American Idolbut that's democracy. Get enough people to have a voting bloc that gets noticed. And voila, you have a voice.Yes. Everybody would like to lobby for their best interests.
Why, as a straight white male do you think that women, minorities and gays have had enough rights written in their favor?
Because each law written for one of the 'other' groups disenfranchises you a bit more. You are in it for your own best interests.
Get a group together that supports your interest and lobby for those. That's how democracy works, kiddo.
I refuse. I will not approach things as an "us vs them". Ever.
I can understand your position Rage. but if you don't play da game, someone else makes the rules of da game for you.Yes. Everybody would like to lobby for their best interests.I refuse. I will not approach things as an "us vs them". Ever.
Should add before anyone says anything, saying that doesn't devalue the genuine achievements made though. But it's inevitable such groups will follow that path of fulfilling an ulterior motive when it starts running out of serious avenues to exploit.
With my complaint of distraction, I'm referring more to the current third-wave feminism, political correctness and identity politics that exists now which are campaigning to fight against increasingly more trivial matters of society.
I need feminism to remind me that the majority of third wave feminist are walking unemployable lawsuits.
life is hard for white boys.Life is hard for white girls
Words like "stud" and "hunk" sexually objectify men! We must destroy the matriarchy!
but that's democracy. Get enough people to have a voting bloc that gets noticed. And voila, you have a voice.Yes. Everybody would like to lobby for their best interests.
Why, as a straight white male do you think that women, minorities and gays have had enough rights written in their favor?
Because each law written for one of the 'other' groups disenfranchises you a bit more. You are in it for your own best interests.
Get a group together that supports your interest and lobby for those. That's how democracy works, kiddo.
I refuse. I will not approach things as an "us vs them". Ever.
:rolls eyes:
Cal, you can do better.
Words like "stud" and "hunk" sexually objectify men! We must destroy the matriarchy!
Because you arent one. :hahaha:
I can understand your position Rage. but if you don't play da game, someone else makes the rules of da game for you.Yes. Everybody would like to lobby for their best interests.I refuse. I will not approach things as an "us vs them". Ever.
(not saying you should play the game, just this is how its played.)
I don't lobby. It makes one seem phony, in-genuine, desperate, cry-babyish and so forth. I guess the old saying rings true, "if you let someone else make decisions for you, don't gripe where you end up" as far as Feminists are concerned I don't think anybody takes them seriously. There like the KKK in that reguard, a laughing stalk. personally I can't watch any of their videos because it will just piss me off
im talking about the basic male mentality of ownership over women. Treating them as objects not as equals.:rolls eyes:
Cal, you can do better.
Wait, so calling a woman a babe is not sexually objectifying her? Then what is the problem?
The privileging of solid over fluid mechanics, and indeed the inability of science to deal with turbulent flow at all, she attributes to the association of fluidity with femininity. Whereas men have sex organs that protrude and become rigid, women have openings that leak menstrual blood and vaginal fluids... From this perspective it is no wonder that science has not been able to arrive at a successful model for turbulence. The problem of turbulent flow cannot be solved because the conceptions of fluids (and of women) have been formulated so as necessarily to leave unarticulated remainders.
Words like "stud" and "hunk" sexually objectify men! We must destroy the matriarchy!
Because you arent one. :hahaha:
I'm not, but chicks dig me regardless. I really don't know why.
life is hard for white boys.Life is hard for white girls
life is hard for white boys.Life is hard for white girls
can be
Going to throw something out here and tell me how this ties into your ownership of females, and your females of lesser value theory here, McPostwhore.lets play a game of pretend for a moment. Lets pretend that everybody is equal. That society has evolved enough that there is no more oppression.
Let's go hypothetical. A game of pretend.
Let's pretend that going back thousands of years ago, tribes of men, in return for trading off going to risk their lives hunting dangerous predators for meat, for the family, (women and children) and being designated the tribes protectors, instead of the women and children in return got a bit of power in the tribe?
Now consider IF you were a woman in those times. Would your protected status be considered a valuable position rather than the dispose-ability of a man, who is necessarily having to place himself in harms way? Would this position be a decent trade off to come at? Longer life, less chance of being killed or maimed than the men, and in return the males get to have a bit more privilege? Do you think this was men forcing women into it, OR (work with me here) do you think it may have been a mutually beneficial decision?
You know "I am not to keen on being gored by a predator, or falling through ice off cliffs, or being maimed or killed in tribal battles, BUT I love staying at home and looking after kids, and making blankets with the furs you bring from the creatures you have had to kill."
"Well gee honey I want to keep you safe, and I want to look after you, but shit what are you really doing for me rather than having sex with me and having children? Seriously, I am likely to die every fucking day i walk out the door. How about me and the boys get to make the decisions around here about the running of the tribe, and in protection you and the kids?"
"Meh. Fair enough. I would rather not be dead or risking death. Knock yourself out. I am gonna stay here and talk with the ladies and look after the kids. May make a blanket later and look for a few berries. You go out on the ice sheets and hunt a seal. Try not to die"
Doesn't fit your view of how things were? Why have males evolved with more muscle mass and stronger bone density? Is it because over many thousands of years, the males are expected to get into situations where having these things matters?
But that is not now? No its not. Man has invented a number of things to bring the human condition to a standard higher than what it has been in ancient times or lesser time. Better understanding of science of disease, of midwifery, better understanding of the world.
Now women want a piece.
Fair enough.
Now they want the same as men and they want the status quo to change quickly. Fair enough.
But in order to do it many women help develop a culture where they have to make a lot of very negative allusions some fair and some not. Many exaggerated and many not. They are wanting to portray women as slaves, oppressed, victimised, exploited and so on and men as brutal, incompetent, stupid, without morals and so on.
McPostwhore, why are you buying into this bullshit?
Going to throw something out here and tell me how this ties into your ownership of females, and your females of lesser value theory here, McPostwhore.lets play a game of pretend for a moment. Lets pretend that everybody is equal. That society has evolved enough that there is no more oppression.
Let's go hypothetical. A game of pretend.
Let's pretend that going back thousands of years ago, tribes of men, in return for trading off going to risk their lives hunting dangerous predators for meat, for the family, (women and children) and being designated the tribes protectors, instead of the women and children in return got a bit of power in the tribe?
Now consider IF you were a woman in those times. Would your protected status be considered a valuable position rather than the dispose-ability of a man, who is necessarily having to place himself in harms way? Would this position be a decent trade off to come at? Longer life, less chance of being killed or maimed than the men, and in return the males get to have a bit more privilege? Do you think this was men forcing women into it, OR (work with me here) do you think it may have been a mutually beneficial decision?
You know "I am not to keen on being gored by a predator, or falling through ice off cliffs, or being maimed or killed in tribal battles, BUT I love staying at home and looking after kids, and making blankets with the furs you bring from the creatures you have had to kill."
"Well gee honey I want to keep you safe, and I want to look after you, but shit what are you really doing for me rather than having sex with me and having children? Seriously, I am likely to die every fucking day i walk out the door. How about me and the boys get to make the decisions around here about the running of the tribe, and in protection you and the kids?"
"Meh. Fair enough. I would rather not be dead or risking death. Knock yourself out. I am gonna stay here and talk with the ladies and look after the kids. May make a blanket later and look for a few berries. You go out on the ice sheets and hunt a seal. Try not to die"
Doesn't fit your view of how things were? Why have males evolved with more muscle mass and stronger bone density? Is it because over many thousands of years, the males are expected to get into situations where having these things matters?
But that is not now? No its not. Man has invented a number of things to bring the human condition to a standard higher than what it has been in ancient times or lesser time. Better understanding of science of disease, of midwifery, better understanding of the world.
Now women want a piece.
Fair enough.
Now they want the same as men and they want the status quo to change quickly. Fair enough.
But in order to do it many women help develop a culture where they have to make a lot of very negative allusions some fair and some not. Many exaggerated and many not. They are wanting to portray women as slaves, oppressed, victimised, exploited and so on and men as brutal, incompetent, stupid, without morals and so on.
McPostwhore, why are you buying into this bullshit?
Hypothetically there is no reason to create a villain in this world. Everything is equal and the status quo is ok. Everybody is fine with it.
I agree if our political system was more progressive than it is. Mostly conservatives like to preserve the status quo.
Therefor a common enemy serves the interest of pushing change.
In America we love freedom. Well we got al queda, our common enemy, now we love security and abandon all those silly claims of liberty.
Therefor a common enemy serves the interest of pushing change
Hypothetically there is no reason to create a villain in this world. Everything is equal and the status quo is ok. Everybody is fine with it.
Going to throw something out here and tell me how this ties into your ownership of females, and your females of lesser value theory here, McPostwhore.lets play a game of pretend for a moment. Lets pretend that everybody is equal. That society has evolved enough that there is no more oppression.
Let's go hypothetical. A game of pretend.
Let's pretend that going back thousands of years ago, tribes of men, in return for trading off going to risk their lives hunting dangerous predators for meat, for the family, (women and children) and being designated the tribes protectors, instead of the women and children in return got a bit of power in the tribe?
Now consider IF you were a woman in those times. Would your protected status be considered a valuable position rather than the dispose-ability of a man, who is necessarily having to place himself in harms way? Would this position be a decent trade off to come at? Longer life, less chance of being killed or maimed than the men, and in return the males get to have a bit more privilege? Do you think this was men forcing women into it, OR (work with me here) do you think it may have been a mutually beneficial decision?
You know "I am not to keen on being gored by a predator, or falling through ice off cliffs, or being maimed or killed in tribal battles, BUT I love staying at home and looking after kids, and making blankets with the furs you bring from the creatures you have had to kill."
"Well gee honey I want to keep you safe, and I want to look after you, but shit what are you really doing for me rather than having sex with me and having children? Seriously, I am likely to die every fucking day i walk out the door. How about me and the boys get to make the decisions around here about the running of the tribe, and in protection you and the kids?"
"Meh. Fair enough. I would rather not be dead or risking death. Knock yourself out. I am gonna stay here and talk with the ladies and look after the kids. May make a blanket later and look for a few berries. You go out on the ice sheets and hunt a seal. Try not to die"
Doesn't fit your view of how things were? Why have males evolved with more muscle mass and stronger bone density? Is it because over many thousands of years, the males are expected to get into situations where having these things matters?
But that is not now? No its not. Man has invented a number of things to bring the human condition to a standard higher than what it has been in ancient times or lesser time. Better understanding of science of disease, of midwifery, better understanding of the world.
Now women want a piece.
Fair enough.
Now they want the same as men and they want the status quo to change quickly. Fair enough.
But in order to do it many women help develop a culture where they have to make a lot of very negative allusions some fair and some not. Many exaggerated and many not. They are wanting to portray women as slaves, oppressed, victimised, exploited and so on and men as brutal, incompetent, stupid, without morals and so on.
McPostwhore, why are you buying into this bullshit?
Hypothetically there is no reason to create a villain in this world. Everything is equal and the status quo is ok. Everybody is fine with it.
Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
Go away feminazi bovine miscreant. We pour chocolate into molds too. :hahaha:Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
All American feminists are one and the same? :zombiefuck:
Doesn't bode well for America, if molding people into one fitting image works so well there.
Go away feminazi bovine miscreant. We pour chocolate into molds too. :hahaha:Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
All American feminists are one and the same? :zombiefuck:
Doesn't bode well for America, if molding people into one fitting image works so well there.
:pwned: by :hyke: :hide::-*
Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
What you long for in your girl, independence, able to stand on her own, in every way, that sounds like a feminist request to me. :hyke:
Not kidding you.
It would be much easier if people simply understood their place. The caste system in India is an ideal.
No fuss. No muss.
So I still didn't get what feminists are really fighting for that isn't based on something imaginary/speculated or based on events going on in countries that aren't ruled by the Western world.
Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
All American feminists are one and the same? :zombiefuck:
Doesn't bode well for America, if molding people into one fitting image works so well there.
Then i'll say AMERICAN feminists.
All American feminists are one and the same? :zombiefuck:
Doesn't bode well for America, if molding people into one fitting image works so well there.
They are :borg:
Well, women are in the next cubicle, across the dinner table, on the other side of the bed. Almost every man has a mother he has known and probably cared about; most also have a wife, daughter, sister, aunt or niece as well. Our stubborn sexism harms and holds back them, not strangers. Still it survives.
As you age, rage, you will get it.
You are currently under the mind control of those that wish to divide. Division among the masses keeps them in control.
Focus, boy!
Women are so much better than men. Let them rule.
I only wish that I could fart a kid out my ass.
Women are so much better than men.
...what's that word again?...OH I know that word you were looking for. "FUCKING BIGOT".
^ Yep.Quote...what's that word again?...OH I know that word you were looking for. "FUCKING BIGOT".