European indigenous people's movement

[Alex179]

If the hosting company is in the US, it's American law that is applicable. Normally American law is much more tolerant than European laws when it comes to freedom of speech.

That is what I thought.   You should be able to say almost anything, as long as it is not threatening people.

[TheoK]

Yes. The difference between American law and most European laws is that in Europe it's usually enough to make certain statements about ethnic groups etcetera to make it a crime. In America it's not.

[Callaway]

Yes. The difference between American law and most European laws is that in Europe it's usually enough to make certain statements about ethnic groups etcetera to make it a crime. In America it's not.

But if the person is breaking a law of his own country, I believe that would break our host's TOS.

[odeon]

It doesn't make any difference. Your IP addresses were logged.

What makes you any better than the Germans who turned in Jews to the Gestapo? You're doing pretty much the same thing here, just in a different era and a with a different regime.

[odeon]

That is already the death knell of free speech on the internet.   You should be able to say whatever you want, wherever you want.   I2 is allowed to be seen in every country, other than possibly the firewall of China blocking the site.   So does that mean we are bound by the laws of Iran as far as censorship goes?   The Iranian government would agree with Illusion quite a bit lol.

Alex, while Hostgator, our host, allows us to post more offensive material than most, they also list a number of things that we simply cannot publish here.  Do you remember the restrictions put on I2 by the host Dunc had when the place was new, or was that before your time here? Hostgator's more liberal than most.

Isn't this site hosted in the US?   I know Odeon is in Sweden, but I thought the hosting company was in the US.

It has nothing to do with Swedish law, per se, but I suspect that I couldn't avoid the consequences altogether if we did, in fact, break the laws of Florida, Texas or the United States--there are treaties between the US and the EU, but also between the US and Sweden.

I'm more worried about breaking against the TOS because that would probably be enough to shut down the site.

[odeon]

If the hosting company is in the US, it's American law that is applicable. Normally American law is much more tolerant than European laws when it comes to freedom of speech.

The biggest risk here is that we violate the TOS and the site is shut down.

[IlluSionS667]

It doesn't make any difference. Your IP addresses were logged.

What makes you any better than the Germans who turned in Jews to the Gestapo? You're doing pretty much the same thing here, just in a different era and a with a different regime.

I'm serious. Back in those days, Jews were regarded AT LEAST as immoral as you consider me. Just like you, Germans turning in Jews believed they were helping their community.

Alex, while Hostgator, our host, allows us to post more offensive material than most, they also list a number of things that we simply cannot publish here.

Is Holocaust Revisionism on that list?

If there is a list of content not allowed on this forum, why not put it in the forum rules? Why not put in the forum rules exactly what is allowed and what isn't. Then everyone is expected to follow those rules and those who break then can be banned for breaking the rules they accepted when signing in. This is the way pretty much every forum out there deals with forum content, both mainstream forums and controversial forums.

Currently your forum claims to be a haven for free speech and open debate, but at the same time you're threatening to report users to their IP for expressing speech and asking for debate on topics too controversial for your taste. This is entirely contradictory and a simple set of extra guidelines can clear this out of the way, although this would mean that you can no longer profile your forum as a free speech website.

It has nothing to do with Swedish law, per se, but I suspect that I couldn't avoid the consequences altogether if we did, in fact, break the laws of Florida, Texas or the United States--there are treaties between the US and the EU, but also between the US and Sweden.

The US rarely cooperates with the EU in cases like this because it is an obvious enfringement of free speech that's almost sacred in the US. Also, I don't think my country has a policy that gives it jurisdiction over content published on US-based servers. As far as I know, only a handful of countries (like Germany) have such totalitarian policies.

I'm more worried about breaking against the TOS because that would probably be enough to shut down the site.

Then just put in the forum rules what is allowed and what not and punish people for breaking those rules. If you do that, there is no service provider who'll even consider shutting you down.

[odeon]

It has nothing to do with Swedish law, per se, but I suspect that I couldn't avoid the consequences altogether if we did, in fact, break the laws of Florida, Texas or the United States--there are treaties between the US and the EU, but also between the US and Sweden.

The US rarely cooperates with the EU in cases like this because it is an obvious enfringement of free speech that's almost sacred in the US. Also, I don't think my country has a policy that gives it jurisdiction over content published on US-based servers. As far as I know, only a handful of countries (like Germany) have such totalitarian policies.

Did you read what I wrote? I've highlighted the relevant passage for your convenience. I was talking about what could happen if we broke against US laws. However, and I think I made this clear, that doesn't really worry me because I'm reasonably sure that we do not. When prosecuted, free speech issues more often than not seem to result in libel and defamation (civil) suits, and those cases almost never find their way outside US borders.

What could happen, and quite easily at that, is that someone sued Hostgator for content found on our site (a civil defamation suit), and Hostgator acted by shutting us down.

I'm more worried about breaking against the TOS because that would probably be enough to shut down the site.

Then just put in the forum rules what is allowed and what not and punish people for breaking those rules. If you do that, there is no service provider who'll even consider shutting you down.

Until now, it's not been an issue. Apart from hate propaganda (expressly forbidden in the TOS, btw), warez links, bitTorrent hosting and such, there are no obvious limitations other than those defined by the relevant laws.

Now, you may not like it, but many would define your posts as belonging to that first category. There are resolutions in the UN to that effect, just as there are rulings by courts in various countries and the EU conveying that same message. How our host will react is not obvious, not to me at least.

You are not being censored here, however, and won't be, unless our host tells me otherwise.

[IlluSionS667]

Did you read what I wrote? I've highlighted the relevant passage for your convenience. I was talking about what could happen if we broke against US laws.

None of us is breaking US laws, as free speech (which includes Holocaust Revisionism and other unpopular views) is protected by the US constitution.

What could happen, and quite easily at that, is that someone sued Hostgator for content found on our site (a civil defamation suit), and Hostgator acted by shutting us down.

Like I said, a simple set of forum rules and enforcement of those rules should to the trick.

Until now, it's not been an issue. Apart from hate propaganda (expressly forbidden in the TOS, btw), warez links, bitTorrent hosting and such, there are no obvious limitations other than those defined by the relevant laws.

Add the new limitations to your forum rules and I would make no fuzz about not posting about such topics or leaving this forum, since I respect forum rules even when I strongly disagree with them, although I do think you should stop labeling this website as a free speech website in that case. In the past I visited forums that offered true free speech, allowing anything from zionism and communism to white supremacism (which I do not support, btw). Only a forum that does not limit any sort of speech can truely be referred to as a free speech forum, no matter how controversial some forms of speech can be.

Now, you may not like it, but many would define your posts as belonging to that first category. There are resolutions in the UN to that effect, just as there are rulings by courts in various countries and the EU conveying that same message. How our host will react is not obvious, not to me at least.

You can always ask them whether or not Holocaust Revisionism is against their policy and add a new directive to your guidelines if it is. If you address the issue before they spot it, then I don't see how they can blame you for anything.

Anyway, just because the Western world has turned into an Orwellian nightmare that doesn't make it just. Had Hitler won WW2 the situation would be entirely different and you'd probably be sheering just as loud against Jews and communists, since the public opinion would be that Jews and communists are the bad guys.

You are not being censored here, however, and won't be, unless our host tells me otherwise.

Trying to contact a man's ISP is a less direct form of censorship, since you are calling for others to do the dirty job for you.