Ask Kosmonaut anything !

[DirtDawg]

The reason it would be to your disadvantage is that while you may be fooling your opponent with ambiguous facial expressions, you have to be interpreting your opponent's expressions at the same time, while they are trying to fool you. I think aspies with any kind of problems reading faces lose that contest every time. I can't cite any data, but I am a decent poker player and the game has a lot to do with facial reading, especially during the betting segments of the game. I have no problems with faces. In fact, I have done kind of an OCD study of facial expression in my photography work.

i can read people well. not all aspies are crap at that, some are fucking excellent. i love facial expressions. i love people's emotions.

what do you mean OCD study?

I just meant that I studied expression as if I was Obsessive Compulsive in order to improve my portrait photography. If you can read when people are trying to fool you with their expressions, then you would probably make a decent poker player.

[SovaNu]

i still don't get it. you pretended to be OCD or you were obsessive compulsive abour your portfolio? lol.

[DirtDawg]

No, I only meant that I obsessively studied for many years in order to improve my work, not that I was pretending to be OCD.

 


(actually I don't have to pretend, much, because that's the way I do everything I am interested in.)

[SovaNu]

lol. ok.

i'd like to be a shrink. i always identify with counselor Troi.

[Kosmonaut]

Do you think Aspies have a natural advantage at poker due to the lack of facial expressions?

Im not sure that Aspies do have a lack of facial expression. Maybe they do to some extent, but it is something which i had to practise at, though its not something i found difficult.
As far as it being an advantage..
If you can't maintain a 'poker-face' then you will not have much chance in most games worth playing in.
It's usually only beginners which have these sorts of tells, and you're going to beat them by outplaying them anyway.
There are other tells which players have ( even high limit players), but in general the theory of tells is overrated - it's not where the money comes from really.

i disagree. i think you can win without a poker face. you can use a joker face. as in facial expressions so random noone will understand them. do you agree this is possible?

not all aspies are void of facial expression. some are, i know aspies who are harder to read because they have minimal expressions. then i look into their eyes to see how they are feeling.

That is very true about the joker face. In fact, some expert players have this joker persona which can be a good image to have.
As long as the facial expressions are completely random to the cards dealt and betting, etc  then yes. But this would be hard to do. i wouldn't recommend trying it.

[Calandale]

i can read people well. not all aspies are crap at that, some are fucking excellent.

Aye.

[Kosmonaut]

i just don't know how to play the game. the actual game with the cards.

Thje game is easy and totally logical on paper, but the real skill is in reading people at the table, quickly. Aspies with bewildering facial discomfitures of any sort will always have a disadvantage towards the end.

i know everyone says the game is easy but i suck at card games. i only ever play go fish. i don't learn the rules easily. i'm kinda dyscalculic.

why would aspies with bewildering facial discomfitures have disadvantage? i thought maybe i would be hard to read since i'm sometimes very random in my expressions.

The reason it would be to your disadvantage is that while you may be fooling your opponent with ambiguous facial expressions, you have to be interpreting your opponent's expressions at the same time, while they are trying to fool you. I think aspies with any kind of problems reading faces lose that contest every time. I can't cite any data, but I am a decent poker player and the game has a lot to do with facial reading, especially during the betting segments of the game. I have no problems with faces.

I agree with what you say, but i think you are over-valuing this aspect of the game. There comes a point when you will not get many signals from reading players facial expressions. Most casino regulars who play 40+ hours a week are not giving much away, in this respect.
But against beginners and some more social players then being a good reader will be a quicker way to destroy them rather than just outplaying them.
Obviously there are other body language tells other than just facial expressions.
I would reccommend reading Caro's Book Of Tells, i think there are dvds and videos of it as well. Most probably you have read it already, but if you play it is essential reading.

[Kosmonaut]

[
i can read people well. not all aspies are crap at that, some are fucking excellent. i love facial expressions. i love people's emotions.

Yes, i would consider myself a very good reader of people. Although only when observing others.
As soon as i interact myself ( either by listening or talking) then i stop being able to notice body language cues.

[Lucifer]

yep - i'm with you on that one.

[DirtDawg]

i just don't know how to play the game. the actual game with the cards.

Thje game is easy and totally logical on paper, but the real skill is in reading people at the table, quickly. Aspies with bewildering facial discomfitures of any sort will always have a disadvantage towards the end.

i know everyone says the game is easy but i suck at card games. i only ever play go fish. i don't learn the rules easily. i'm kinda dyscalculic.

why would aspies with bewildering facial discomfitures have disadvantage? i thought maybe i would be hard to read since i'm sometimes very random in my expressions.

The reason it would be to your disadvantage is that while you may be fooling your opponent with ambiguous facial expressions, you have to be interpreting your opponent's expressions at the same time, while they are trying to fool you. I think aspies with any kind of problems reading faces lose that contest every time. I can't cite any data, but I am a decent poker player and the game has a lot to do with facial reading, especially during the betting segments of the game. I have no problems with faces.

I agree with what you say, but i think you are over-valuing this aspect of the game. There comes a point when you will not get many signals from reading players facial expressions. Most casino regulars who play 40+ hours a week are not giving much away, in this respect.
But against beginners and some more social players then being a good reader will be a quicker way to destroy them rather than just outplaying them.
Obviously there are other body language tells other than just facial expressions.
I would reccommend reading Caro's Book Of Tells, i think there are dvds and videos of it as well. Most probably you have read it already, but if you play it is essential reading.

Yes, obviously there is a difference between "professional" players and people like me just having some fun. I won't bet my car, no matter what I have in my hand or how well I feel I am reading someone, because you never know if you are being set up by someone with greater overall skills than yourself. Good point about body language, though, and it goes back to the same point about everyone being a little different in their movements and responses to stress, etc. and aspies being able to learn their opponent's patterns of behavior, quickly.

And really, I was only talking about bluffing and maximizing betting as it applies to a friendly group of opponents, since there is so much more to the game, as you said. It's kind of like you completed my thoughts for me.

[DirtDawg]

lol. ok.

i'd like to be a shrink. i always identify with counselor Troi.

I couldn't help but laugh at our conversation and how you gave me another lesson in not swinging my magic simile sword around so carelessly, in the house.

[SovaNu]

i just don't know how to play the game. the actual game with the cards.

Thje game is easy and totally logical on paper, but the real skill is in reading people at the table, quickly. Aspies with bewildering facial discomfitures of any sort will always have a disadvantage towards the end.

i know everyone says the game is easy but i suck at card games. i only ever play go fish. i don't learn the rules easily. i'm kinda dyscalculic.

why would aspies with bewildering facial discomfitures have disadvantage? i thought maybe i would be hard to read since i'm sometimes very random in my expressions.

The reason it would be to your disadvantage is that while you may be fooling your opponent with ambiguous facial expressions, you have to be interpreting your opponent's expressions at the same time, while they are trying to fool you. I think aspies with any kind of problems reading faces lose that contest every time. I can't cite any data, but I am a decent poker player and the game has a lot to do with facial reading, especially during the betting segments of the game. I have no problems with faces.

I agree with what you say, but i think you are over-valuing this aspect of the game. There comes a point when you will not get many signals from reading players facial expressions. Most casino regulars who play 40+ hours a week are not giving much away, in this respect.
But against beginners and some more social players then being a good reader will be a quicker way to destroy them rather than just outplaying them.
Obviously there are other body language tells other than just facial expressions.
I would reccommend reading Caro's Book Of Tells, i think there are dvds and videos of it as well. Most probably you have read it already, but if you play it is essential reading.

Yes, obviously there is a difference between "professional" players and people like me just having some fun. I won't bet my car, no matter what I have in my hand or how well I feel I am reading someone, because you never know if you are being set up by someone with greater overall skills than yourself. Good point about body language, though, and it goes back to the same point about everyone being a little different in their movements and responses to stress, etc. and aspies being able to learn their opponent's patterns of behavior, quickly.

And really, I was only talking about bluffing and maximizing betting as it applies to a friendly group of opponents, since there is so much more to the game, as you said. It's kind of like you completed my thoughts for me.

good point, dude. aspies are good at reading patterns.

i wouldn't my car either, that's smart.

[SovaNu]

Do you think Aspies have a natural advantage at poker due to the lack of facial expressions?

Im not sure that Aspies do have a lack of facial expression. Maybe they do to some extent, but it is something which i had to practise at, though its not something i found difficult.
As far as it being an advantage..
If you can't maintain a 'poker-face' then you will not have much chance in most games worth playing in.
It's usually only beginners which have these sorts of tells, and you're going to beat them by outplaying them anyway.
There are other tells which players have ( even high limit players), but in general the theory of tells is overrated - it's not where the money comes from really.

i disagree. i think you can win without a poker face. you can use a joker face. as in facial expressions so random noone will understand them. do you agree this is possible?

not all aspies are void of facial expression. some are, i know aspies who are harder to read because they have minimal expressions. then i look into their eyes to see how they are feeling.

That is very true about the joker face. In fact, some expert players have this joker persona which can be a good image to have.
As long as the facial expressions are completely random to the cards dealt and betting, etc  then yes. But this would be hard to do. i wouldn't recommend trying it.

what i was saying is that maybe i could do it unconsciously. just maybe.

[Kosmonaut]

Do you think Aspies have a natural advantage at poker due to the lack of facial expressions?

Im not sure that Aspies do have a lack of facial expression. Maybe they do to some extent, but it is something which i had to practise at, though its not something i found difficult.
As far as it being an advantage..
If you can't maintain a 'poker-face' then you will not have much chance in most games worth playing in.
It's usually only beginners which have these sorts of tells, and you're going to beat them by outplaying them anyway.
There are other tells which players have ( even high limit players), but in general the theory of tells is overrated - it's not where the money comes from really.

i disagree. i think you can win without a poker face. you can use a joker face. as in facial expressions so random noone will understand them. do you agree this is possible?

not all aspies are void of facial expression. some are, i know aspies who are harder to read because they have minimal expressions. then i look into their eyes to see how they are feeling.

That is very true about the joker face. In fact, some expert players have this joker persona which can be a good image to have.
As long as the facial expressions are completely random to the cards dealt and betting, etc  then yes. But this would be hard to do. i wouldn't recommend trying it.

what i was saying is that maybe i could do it unconsciously. just maybe.

Ah i see, yes it's a possibility. There are a few very good players which have facial tics and some weird expressions.
So yes, a poker face does not necessarily mean a completely blank stone-face expression. So long as you don't start blinking or ticking more when you are bluffing, for example.

[Lucifer]

how about playing against someone with tourette's?