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Author Topic: Graelwyn Grilling Time  (Read 5929 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #90 on: February 11, 2015, 08:51:09 PM »
From my reading, it seems the quote can be interpreted in multiple ways.

Just have never read anyone interpret that way. Left Shark once stated that quote to me, so now wondering what that was about. :laugh:

Offline Walkie

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #91 on: February 11, 2015, 09:37:50 PM »
I have a question for you, Graelwyn:

Do you mind if this Nietzsche issue swallows up your thread?
Cos i can see that happening oh-so-easily
(currently resisting posting my own point-of-view  :LOL:)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 09:39:33 PM by DrunkardsWalk »

Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2015, 09:39:46 PM »
I have a question for you, Graelwyn:

Do you mind if this Nietze issue swallows up your thread?
Cos i can see that happening oh-so-easily
(currently resisting posting my own point-of-view  :LOL:)

Nope, I don't mind at all, it lets me off the hook of any potentially unwanted, awkward questions  :lol1:
Plus, I might learn something new.
Post away.

Offline Walkie

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #93 on: February 11, 2015, 09:42:11 PM »
I have a question for you, Graelwyn:

Do you mind if this Nietze issue swallows up your thread?
Cos i can see that happening oh-so-easily
(currently resisting posting my own point-of-view  :LOL:)

Nope, I don't mind at all, it lets me off the hook of any potentially unwanted, awkward questions  :lol1:
Plus, I might learn something new.
Post away.
Dammit, you replied before I corrected my spelling.
Now everybody knows I'm not perfect . :headhurts:

Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #94 on: February 11, 2015, 09:49:59 PM »
I have a question for you, Graelwyn:

Do you mind if this Nietze issue swallows up your thread?
Cos i can see that happening oh-so-easily
(currently resisting posting my own point-of-view  :LOL:)

Nope, I don't mind at all, it lets me off the hook of any potentially unwanted, awkward questions  :lol1:
Plus, I might learn something new.
Post away.
Dammit, you replied before I corrected my spelling.
Now everybody knows I'm not perfect . :headhurts:

Well, guess what... I guess I am not perfect either as I did not even notice the error  :green:

Offline Walkie

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #95 on: February 11, 2015, 10:38:29 PM »
I must confess, I start feeling a bit creepy when I have watched a certain number of forensic files or documentaries about serial killers and have to force myself to put in a nice, tame costume drama to compensate  :lol1:

... those who persue monsters...
The quote is about fighting monsters.

This is the quote, I am guessing, by Friedrich Nietzsche?

Quote
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. You must take care that you don't begin to sympathise with the evil you fight. It happens often enough.

Always thought it was more about people taking extremes which go against their own moral code, in the course of fighting something they believe to be wrong.

*phew* now I've got all the different interpretations onto the same page (i think)

Actually i don't see that those interpretations are mutually exclusive, nor even contradictory. It could be that Niezsche had both in mind.  I mean, if you stare into the abyss and absorb something of it's quality, or empathise too much with your enemy, it seems fairly logical that you'll wind up breaking your own moral code, or alltering it somewhat ( does it really have to be inflexible?)

But I prefer to take a more psychological view. Or a Jungian view, specifically.

According to my view of it, the abyss and the enemy clearly represent what Jung called the "shadow" ; which you could say represents the whole of your unconscious mind: everything that your Ego refuses to acknowledge as part of yourself.  Now, this isn't just sinister stuff.  It could be things you've judged to be "evil" or "unworthy" or equally things you think are far above your humble little self; anything you'er uncomfortable with, in any way. Here, angels and demons are born. And here your annoying next door neighbour who reminds you too much of yourself is born; or rather your unflattering image of the next door neighbour is born here. You've never met the guy in reality, cos the moment you get a whiff of him,  you're spitting nails at your own unconscious projection.

So, when we engage in a fight with some evil enemy, we're really engaged in a fight with ourself , a fight with all the nasty habits that we'd rather not acknowledge. It's a cop-out, really. Someone who's interested in self-awareness fights the devil within instead...and eventually winds up calling a truce, because there's only so much beating-yourself-up that  body can take. And besides , the devil isn't such a bad guy, once you let him out of that dark dismal prison cell and listen to  his grouch against you. You wind up as a much more rounded, sympathetic, likeable human being, who can see both sides of the coin. And who occasionally  notices that his neighbour is actually human, after all.

..well, eventually (that might take about a zillion lifetimes, ofc, depending how stubborn your Ego is).

The thing is: when you stare into the abyss, you are staring at your own reflection, whether you know it or not, so of course the abyss stares back.  And you put a bit of work into self-analysis, you might start to twig that.

Is that a bad thing? actually no, not at all. If you start to bend your own principles on account of that encounter, it will be because you started out as inflexible son-of-bitch who caused misery to everyone around you, or something like that. 

The bad things happen if you fail to realise what's going on, and carry on thinking that the devil is always "out there" and so you have to keep jumping on your white charger and thrashing him. Then you hurt the people you're close to. You go on jihad. You plant bombs. You go nuts with the strain of keeping all that evil under control. Then you act like the devil you were seeking to vnquish; and the harder you try to vanquish him, the more you act like him. You might not know it, but everybody else is gonna know it.

Well, that what I think to myself, when I read those words.

-Walkie
)
(does that get one of us off the hook, Graelwyn? :LOL:)
 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 10:40:46 PM by DrunkardsWalk »

Offline Jack

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #96 on: February 11, 2015, 10:46:38 PM »
( does it really have to be inflexible?)
Yes, because Jack is inflexible. :laugh:

Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2015, 10:24:02 PM »
I must confess, I start feeling a bit creepy when I have watched a certain number of forensic files or documentaries about serial killers and have to force myself to put in a nice, tame costume drama to compensate  :lol1:

... those who persue monsters...
The quote is about fighting monsters.

This is the quote, I am guessing, by Friedrich Nietzsche?

Quote
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. You must take care that you don't begin to sympathise with the evil you fight. It happens often enough.

Always thought it was more about people taking extremes which go against their own moral code, in the course of fighting something they believe to be wrong.

*phew* now I've got all the different interpretations onto the same page (i think)

Actually i don't see that those interpretations are mutually exclusive, nor even contradictory. It could be that Niezsche had both in mind.  I mean, if you stare into the abyss and absorb something of it's quality, or empathise too much with your enemy, it seems fairly logical that you'll wind up breaking your own moral code, or alltering it somewhat ( does it really have to be inflexible?)

But I prefer to take a more psychological view. Or a Jungian view, specifically.

According to my view of it, the abyss and the enemy clearly represent what Jung called the "shadow" ; which you could say represents the whole of your unconscious mind: everything that your Ego refuses to acknowledge as part of yourself.  Now, this isn't just sinister stuff.  It could be things you've judged to be "evil" or "unworthy" or equally things you think are far above your humble little self; anything you'er uncomfortable with, in any way. Here, angels and demons are born. And here your annoying next door neighbour who reminds you too much of yourself is born; or rather your unflattering image of the next door neighbour is born here. You've never met the guy in reality, cos the moment you get a whiff of him,  you're spitting nails at your own unconscious projection.

So, when we engage in a fight with some evil enemy, we're really engaged in a fight with ourself , a fight with all the nasty habits that we'd rather not acknowledge. It's a cop-out, really. Someone who's interested in self-awareness fights the devil within instead...and eventually winds up calling a truce, because there's only so much beating-yourself-up that  body can take. And besides , the devil isn't such a bad guy, once you let him out of that dark dismal prison cell and listen to  his grouch against you. You wind up as a much more rounded, sympathetic, likeable human being, who can see both sides of the coin. And who occasionally  notices that his neighbour is actually human, after all.

..well, eventually (that might take about a zillion lifetimes, ofc, depending how stubborn your Ego is).

The thing is: when you stare into the abyss, you are staring at your own reflection, whether you know it or not, so of course the abyss stares back.  And you put a bit of work into self-analysis, you might start to twig that.

Is that a bad thing? actually no, not at all. If you start to bend your own principles on account of that encounter, it will be because you started out as inflexible son-of-bitch who caused misery to everyone around you, or something like that. 

The bad things happen if you fail to realise what's going on, and carry on thinking that the devil is always "out there" and so you have to keep jumping on your white charger and thrashing him. Then you hurt the people you're close to. You go on jihad. You plant bombs. You go nuts with the strain of keeping all that evil under control. Then you act like the devil you were seeking to vnquish; and the harder you try to vanquish him, the more you act like him. You might not know it, but everybody else is gonna know it.

Well, that what I think to myself, when I read those words.

-Walkie
)
(does that get one of us off the hook, Graelwyn? :LOL:)

Pretty interesting reading. I like analysing quotes sometimes, well, the more ambiguous ones anyway.
I analyse most things actually, but I tend to not share my thoughts lest they get ripped to shreds before my very eyes  :lol1:
Much better to watch everyone else most of the time.

I think I am off the hook. No-one is overly curious about me, and I am pretty much an open book anyway.

Offline Walkie

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #98 on: February 12, 2015, 11:29:07 PM »

Pretty interesting reading. I like analysing quotes sometimes, well, the more ambiguous ones anyway.
I analyse most things actually, but I tend to not share my thoughts lest they get ripped to shreds before my very eyes  :lol1:
Aww. that would be your parents doing. I had one like that, as you know. Always wanted to know what i was thinking, so she could hit the target more effectively when pouring scorn.

it takes a very long time to get over such training.  And maybe here is not the best place  :apondering:
 

I think I am off the hook. No-one is overly curious about me, and I am pretty much an open book anyway.

Hmm you might be right about  the first point, but two and three strike me as most likely dead wrong. Very common Aspie misconceptions.

 Yeah, i get them too., mostly in the form of flashbacks , nowadays.  Number three ( "I am pretty much an open book anyway") is the one that gets my friends pissing themselves with laughter.  But I never actually shared that thought until I was in my thirties (that's how much of an open book I was)  Then it took my about ten years of introspection, retrospection and pondering to decide that actually they are probably dead right to find that so funny.

Can't speak for others, but actually, I've reined in my curiosity about you a few times,  having decided that the question I wanted to ask was too intrusive.

But I usually,  prefer, anyways, to let things come out naturally in the course of conversation. Which is pretty much happening .

I don't think taht grilling anybody is a very good way of getting quality info out of them, least of all an Aspie who had  emotionally-abusive progenitors. It  doesn't work on me. why the hell should it work on you?

-Walkie

(if I ever make my own "Ask Away" thread it will be called "Ask Walkie. She might even answer eventually")

« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 11:31:42 PM by DrunkardsWalk »

Offline Walkie

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #99 on: February 12, 2015, 11:57:55 PM »
Woot!

I thought of a question that that doesn't seem too intrusive:

How do you pronounce "Graelwyn"
What does it mean?
Why did you choose that name?

( :apondering: OK that's three questiions , I suppose *counts fingers carefully* )

Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2015, 12:05:06 AM »

Pretty interesting reading. I like analysing quotes sometimes, well, the more ambiguous ones anyway.
I analyse most things actually, but I tend to not share my thoughts lest they get ripped to shreds before my very eyes  :lol1:
Aww. that would be your parents doing. I had one like that, as you know. Always wanted to know what i was thinking, so she could hit the target more effectively when pouring scorn.

it takes a very long time to get over such training.  And maybe here is not the best place  :apondering:
 

I think I am off the hook. No-one is overly curious about me, and I am pretty much an open book anyway.

Hmm you might be right about  the first point, but two and three strike me as most likely dead wrong. Very common Aspie misconceptions.

 Yeah, i get them too., mostly in the form of flashbacks , nowadays.  Number three ( "I am pretty much an open book anyway") is the one that gets my friends pissing themselves with laughter.  But I never actually shared that thought until I was in my thirties (that's how much of an open book I was)  Then it took my about ten years of introspection, retrospection and pondering to decide that actually they are probably dead right to find that so funny.

Can't speak for others, but actually, I've reined in my curiosity about you a few times,  having decided that the question I wanted to ask was too intrusive.

But I usually,  prefer, anyways, to let things come out naturally in the course of conversation. Which is pretty much happening .

I don't think taht grilling anybody is a very good way of getting quality info out of them, least of all an Aspie who had  emotionally-abusive progenitors. It  doesn't work on me. why the hell should it work on you?

-Walkie

(if I ever make my own "Ask Away" thread it will be called "Ask Walkie. She might even answer eventually")

Eh, I am taking it easy and sticking to threads that I am comfortable in, mostly lighter topics, other than that which I started, lol, which is certainly not light. I still have very bad reactions to any semblance of criticism as my esteem never seemed to recover. It is really annoying as it totally goes against my logic. It is like a trigger.

I tend to assume I am an open book as I have often been guilty of over sharing. I am no good at hiding things... not consciously anyway.

Grilling me probably wouldn't work, but I liked the alliteration, lol.

Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2015, 12:08:28 AM »
Woot!

I thought of a question that that doesn't seem too intrusive:

How do you pronounce "Graelwyn"
What does it mean?
Why did you choose that name?

( :apondering: OK that's three questiions , I suppose *counts fingers carefully* )

Graelwyn is pronounced 'grail win'

When I once looked it up, it seemed to mean 'fine grail' which I suppose translates basically to holy grail. Welsh.

As to why I chose it... I didn't really. Probably not a good thing to share on a forum full of highly logical, analytical aspies, but I was very much into spiritual things for some years and was involved in mediumship and the like, myself. The name simply came into my head one evening when I was on my feet doing something and I wrote it down as close to how it sounded in my head as I could get it, and I have used it ever since. Research told me that the holy grail basically was a cup of truth.

Sounds far fetched, I know, but that is what happened. I had way more outlandish experiences than that one during those years.

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2015, 12:26:44 AM »
was involved in mediumship and the like, myself.

Were you the medium?  :orly:
:gopher:

Offline Walkie

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2015, 12:37:14 AM »
I still have very bad reactions to any semblance of criticism as my esteem never seemed to recover. It is really annoying as it totally goes against my logic. It is like a trigger.

well, your logic nowadays, and the logic that was operating way back when that emotional reponse was forming are two entirely different things.

If you want to adress that question logically, you have to get close enough to the wounded little girl inside you to understand her point-of-view on it. She' not gonna be willing to listen to your kind of logic  otherwise.  You might be able to talk her round, but not whilst your dismissing her as nothing more than a bad piece of programming.

I think they've got we  Aspies dead wrong as regards our capacity for empathy. But we are undoubtedly crap at empathising with our own selves.

Nope I'm not trying to say you have multiple personalities. It's just another bit of my Jungian stuff (you made a big mistake encouraging me by taking an interest  :green:)

Actually that's not so simply done as said , of course.  But worthwhile :)


Quote
I tend to assume I am an open book as I have often been guilty of over sharing.


Oh yeah! I used to use that same rationalisation. It's a good one, isn't it? Really convincing. Of course, there's a huge difference between over-sharing and being an open book, but they do look very much the same from the inside. And then there's this big plus with over-sharing in that it's so predictably disastrous that it  provides a handy rationale for closing the book even further.

Nice one.

Fun isn't it.  :apondering:

(Btw, i'm mocking myself ,not you,  in case you wonderered. Now that really is fun. But then I've got a warped sense of fun)


Quote
I am no good at hiding things... not consciously anyway.

Ahhh, that's a very nice bit of qualification there. Gotta love the aspie honesty.

Quote
Grilling me probably wouldn't work, but I liked the alliteration, lol.

Agreed!  Poets anonymous hmm?  *high five*

Offline Graelwyn

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Re: Graelwyn Grilling Time
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2015, 12:47:57 AM »
was involved in mediumship and the like, myself.

Were you the medium?  :orly:

I did do that, yes, but not for money or anything like that.
It just happened. I don't do it now as it went against my logic.