Could no longer bite my tongue on this...you know me.

['Butterflies']

Maybe Butterflies is taking all the heat for this because nobody else has the balls to step up and talk. Sir Les' posts earlier were about how Butterflies made the "Rancidora" comment and then about how 'everybody' egged her on.

Where is this everybody?

A lot of people have left the site recently, but these people have done nothing wrong. All of these people had been attacked by Pandora on FB, or at least by her boyfriend impersonating her.

[Binty]

Les should first show what he meant by "egging on".  I just laughed at the Rancidora comment.  Still think it's somewhat amusing 

This really isn't as big of a deal as Les is making it out to be.  A friend of his was insulted by proxy.  Then that insult was made into a joke.  Shit happens.  If Les is trying to come across as a white knight of sorts, fair enough but this is getting ridiculous now.

['Butterflies']

Les should first show what he meant by "egging on".  I just laughed at the Rancidora comment.  Still think it's somewhat amusing 

This really isn't as big of a deal as Les is making it out to be.  A friend of his was insulted by proxy.  Then that insult was made into a joke.  Shit happens.  If Les is trying to come across as a white knight of sorts, fair enough but this is getting ridiculous now.

[Psychophant]

   I just wonder how long before this ends.   

[Scrapheap]

So why do I support him and his behavior? I do not believe I have.

Fuck you!!!    that's a fucking lie and you know it.

So go find the lies Scrap. Fucking hopeless.

Why? Because i do not wish to enable TCO's want to start fights around the internet and have me come in and clean it up for him and I have him putting Pandora in the firing line.

Now I realize that this is a reference to not wanting to do something in the future, but it is a bit of a smoking gun here because really the reason you don't want to do this is because you've done it in the past and you recognize the pattern.

Now, I know that you'll object to be using this post as evidence of anything, but it is the only one that i could find where you summarized your behavior in such concise terms. Really, it's your fault for being so goddamned long-winded and drawn out. I just can't be arsed into searching through miles and miles text where you take a paragraph to say what could be said in a sentence. I'm sure you'll claim victory through fillabuster. That's your tallent, you can't dazzle people with your brilliance, so you bury them in a mountian of bullshit.

[P7PSP]

So why do I support him and his behavior? I do not believe I have.

Fuck you!!!    that's a fucking lie and you know it.

So go find the lies Scrap. Fucking hopeless.

Why? Because i do not wish to enable TCO's want to start fights around the internet and have me come in and clean it up for him and I have him putting Pandora in the firing line.

Now I realize that this is a reference to not wanting to do something in the future, but it is a bit of a smoking gun here because really the reason you don't want to do this is because you've done it in the past and you recognize the pattern.

Now, I know that you'll object to be using this post as evidence of anything, but it is the only one that i could find where you summarized your behavior in such concise terms. Really, it's your fault for being so goddamned long-winded and drawn out. I just can't be arsed into searching through miles and miles text where you take a paragraph to say what could be said in a sentence. I'm sure you'll claim victory through fillabuster. That's your tallent, you can't dazzle people with your brilliance, so you bury them in a mountian of bullshit.

It's Sir_Les' fault that you lack the attention span to search through his posts?  As I recall one of the things you detest about TCO is his tendency to blame others for his own behavior. Now you are blaming Sir_Les for your own failings in simple research. 

[Scrapheap]

Have I ever...yes ever..supported TCO's right to say whatever he wanted unchallenged?

Yes, every time someone has an argument with him, you step in to "clean up the mess" to use your term. Just like you did when I had my spat with him. You had no place jumping in the middle of that one.

Have I ever denounced people's right to defend against these attacks?

Yes, you have run interference by jumping into call-outs. "poor form" to use your term.

I have certainly on occassion agreed with others against him and him against others and at times even criticised his behaviour. I have even tried to allow him an "out" on ocassion to man up and apologise and stop making things worse for him and the board members. But this is not what I just asked.

Derp.    Did you do anything to defend me when TCO attacked me?? no, I didn't think so.

The fact is we have seen he has not been able to play well here. He does meltdown and it does not do him, nor the board nor the board members any favours when he does. I do not deny this and I do not recall ever having said anything to the contrary.

You have tried to blame others for his "meltdowns" as you tried to blame me for his meltdown when I tried to ask him a simple question.

I also liken the analogy of the drunk too far gone with drink to control their actions at the time they are drunk to realise what they are doing (and who is both incapable of registering the effect of what they are doing at the time and with which trying to draw accountability is futile) to his actions when in meltdown.

It's funny that you compare him to a drunk. Yes, TCO is like a chronic alcoholic, he's self-destructive and will destroy all of those close to him. The lesson here? Don't be close to TCO. When you lie with dogs, you rise with fleas.

But find where i say that he is not accountable for anything he says. The truth is, regardless of what we say or do, we all are regardless too of how emotional we are at the time. maybe in the heat of the moment or in the throes of a meltdown we are not of a mind to appreciate our actions but that does not excuse our actions.

Of course you're not dumb enough to say that directly, but you imply it when you said that "meldowns are just what he does".

You suggest I have indicated otherwise?

No, that's just you putting words in my mouth.

So no I do not defend his actions and have not. Have I been patient? Like a fucking saint.

So say you. 

Have I tried to avoid driving him to meltdown?

No, you always jump in after ther fact, and "clean up the mess".

What about my personal views and beliefs on him and who and what he is off-forum? Yup been honest here too. I have volunteered these things freely. That is not as much defending him as making a valued judgment.

Your failure to see TCO for what he is, shows your lack of judgement.

I don't give a damn whether you or anyone likes TCO. He has done a lot to make a lot of people dislike him and that is his cross to carry. I do not much care whether people like him or not nor form a poor opinion on him based on the actions they have seen online.

And that's why you fail to see him for what he is. His online behavior shows a clear pattern of trying to control others. There's no way he doesn't do this IRL too.

TCO on here attacks members? TCO. No issue with members attacking back and he has to back himself.

Members attack TCO? Members  No issue with TCO attacking back and they have to back themselves.

Yes you do have an issue with this because you're constantly jumping in on his side. Poor form on your part.

TCO having a meltdown? Unfortunate. I do not believe in this state he can realise what he is doing/saying and addressing this pointless but that he is still accountable for everything he says.

TCO doesn't have "meltdowns". This is his Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde game. Mr. Hyde ("meltdown") is the REAL TCO. Dr. Jekyl is the mask he wears. This is how he controls an manipulates people.

TCO pulling shit over at Facebook? TCO. Poor fucking form and he deserved to be taken to task personally for it.

Poor form is an understatement. There's no excuse for using your fiance's account to attack others.
 

TCO using Pandora's account? Stupid and poor form and he is responsible for it.

No, Pandora is to blame for it too. She let him use her account, which speaks volumes about their "relationship".

"Posse" going over there? TCO. He bouight that shit on himself. If it was not concerns i had that Pandora would get roped into it and that it was likely to ruin another online community for her, I likely would be part of that too. (I use the word "posse" because i think it best fits. I do not think of it in a negative light. A group of concerned people going as a united group to right a wrong)

Pandora broght that shit on herself too, she shouldn't've let TCO use her account.

No TCO - and the posse starts firing shots at Pandora as next best target? Primarily TCO. He set this up and had his girl taking fire for him. Secondly the posse. Whilst it mayt have been unclear as to what was said or not by Pandora, I had put on the board what and who she was and that he did and does use her account sometimes so where there was a doubt who actually said what and that what was said fitted what i described in her and what you knew of him, I believe there ought to have been some restraint and an acceptance that she was not the person they sought to address, he was.

That said I understood as much as i did not like it and held my tongue.

Again, you are full of shit here. It doesn't matter who posted what because Pandora ALLOWED TCO to say that shit in her name. She didn't denounce it, therefore she owns it. Everything tha was posted on her account is 100% her fault.

Celebrating giving my mate a flogging over here and talking up what a bitch she is whilst her friend is in the room? Everyone involved in said celebrating. Fucking poor form.

Still I held my tongue. Did not like it but did not complain.

bullshit! As far as all are concerned, Pandora attacked several memebers here and she got her just retaliation. It's her fault for allowing TCO to attack people in her name.

Trying to get a rancid sly dig at me after me not having reacted - with the "Rancidora" bullshit - and others cheering on that? Fucking pathetic and everyone involved in that is responsible.

Butterflies has adequately addressed this.

So, yes Scrap. TCO is to blame for TCO's actions and other's for their own actions. Don't try to interpret that I was trying to leave him blameless, that would be both dishonest and stupid.

You've failed to lay blame where blame is due, especially in regards to Pandora.

"then I can only imagine how he fucks with her head IRL" Do not let your imagination run away with you Scrap. You may be right and you may not be.

I'm right. TCO is a control freak and a coward. He seeks out weak people and exploits them.

Am i keen to make sure my friend is safe? Yes. Do i have concerns? Yes. Will I look out for her interests? Yes.

If you have any concern for Pandora at all, tell her to dump TCO.

At the moment she is with a man who makes her happy

Of course. She's under his spell, READ: Brainwashed

and conversely sucks at these online fora. The two CAN exist mutually. I do not know whether one reflects the other but I will be fucked if I will be judge, jury and executioner based on such loose speculation and fear.

The two DO reflect eachother and especially in this case.

Oh and heads up Scrap. TCO is not your brother in Law. You may know your brother in law and you may read into TCO some specific psychoanalytical online diagnosis but between you, me and the rest of the thinking people here, that means shit and if you are not too self-opinionated or full of yourself, I would say that you probably know that such armchair diagnosises or greater awarenesses mean shit. (Yes...even when i do it myself)

I never claimed that TCO was my brother-in-law. TCO's online behavior is exactly like my brother-in-law, and the boyfreind before him, and the one before him, and the brother-in-law before him and the boyfriend before that. They were cowardly manipulators that used proxies (people and accounts) to achive their ends without consequences. They did this both online and IRL.

That's how I know that TCO's online behavior is a smoking gun for how he behaves IRL.

[Scrapheap]

It's Sir_Les' fault that you lack the attention span to search through his posts? 

No, it's Sir Les' fault that he packes them so full of useless filler.

It's something called "Proof through Verbosity", i.e. Fillabustering

[renaeden]

Maybe Butterflies is taking all the heat for this because nobody else has the balls to step up and talk. Sir Les' posts earlier were about how Butterflies made the "Rancidora" comment and then about how 'everybody' egged her on.

Where is this everybody?

I can't remember egging anyone on about calling Pandora "Rancidora". The only thing I expressed disagreement about in relation to something Pandora wrote was this:

Carmel Anne Jones Hey, I wasn't saying don't give her access to the group but if you want to go on believing don't be surprised if it comes back sometime to bite you on the bum. Also, watch out for a person called Bint, because she is not an aspie and she has a history of spoiling relationships and turning on people. Just ask her about a young man called "The Other Window".

Well, Pandora just lost any respect I may have had for her.

What I bolded, why should that be a reason to "watch out"?

And then I wrote how I don't like the whole AS/NT who-is-better attitudes. And that was about it I think.

Then I find out that it may not have even been Pandora who wrote that stuff about Binty, it could have been TCO. When I think about it I feel angry and understand why Scrapheap has said what he has. Pandora's online life seems to have been pretty much destroyed by TCO. Can't understand why Pandora would give TCO her password(s) and let him post online as her? It looks like giving up control. Or maybe control was taken from her?

Well Pandora is very welcome to join Gestalt if she wants to, it is pretty supportive there. And I am sorry for thinking she wrote something when it may not have been her afterall.

[P7PSP]

It's Sir_Les' fault that you lack the attention span to search through his posts? 

No, it's Sir Les' fault that he packes them so full of useless filler.

It's something called "Proof through Verbosity", i.e. Fillabustering

It is how he posts when he is not in a callout/argument situation.

[bodie]

As this is a members site, maybe we should be looking
at how members treat each other first?  Concern is focused on friends of members here,  and i think the culture here is that members insult each other every day!  it's no surprise then when this extends to friends of members.

Les said he would have been in the posse himself, had it not been for his friend,  so how does that reflect on the site?

['Butterflies']

As this is a members site, maybe we should be looking
at how members treat each other first?  Concern is focused on friends of members here,  and i think the culture here is that members insult each other every day!  it's no surprise then when this extends to friends of members.

Les said he would have been in the posse himself, had it not been for his friend,  so how does that reflect on the site?

I totally agree.

[Scrapheap]

It's Sir_Les' fault that you lack the attention span to search through his posts? 

No, it's Sir Les' fault that he packes them so full of useless filler.

It's something called "Proof through Verbosity", i.e. Fillabustering

It is how he posts when he is not in a callout/argument situation.

It's also how he posts in call-outs. He also throws in a generous amount of weasel words in order to wrigle out of a position, if he has to.

[odeon]

I have no real strong feelings about changing the site.  It is as it was when i joined it.  Saying that others have noticed a difference.

Fair enough,  i can accept that.  Improve it.  Enhance it,  whatever.   

If you really want to make it better you have to look at all the things the whole membership find wrong.

I can not comprehend how or why this is all down to Butterflies and her 'rancid' comment.

I don't see any other people with a major problem with Butterflies.  Yes i can see why Les is mad,  but it is not fair to make her a scapegoat either.

Surely a more positive step in making improvements will be to look at any other issues, as well as this one.  At the moment it seems to be just this one.

It's not all down to Butterflies and she is not a scapegoat. but like everyone here, she is responsible for her actions and if called out, those actions are what can reasonably be expected of her to defend. Not any perceived or real change in how this place works, because that is something we all have to address.

[odeon]

Les should first show what he meant by "egging on".  I just laughed at the Rancidora comment.  Still think it's somewhat amusing 

This really isn't as big of a deal as Les is making it out to be.  A friend of his was insulted by proxy.  Then that insult was made into a joke.  Shit happens.  If Les is trying to come across as a white knight of sorts, fair enough but this is getting ridiculous now.

By proxy? I would say directly.