Breeding animals for traits

[Calandale]

I think that, including societal mores,
they are very effective. No clue how
much is a genetic issue.

So, you're opposed to functionality?

To me, the worry would be in speciazation.
And creating animal like 'humans'.

Hell, I guess it's fine, so long as we
don't allow the lower castes to make
decisions.

[richard]

has anyone here tried to get a female dog pregnant by having sex with it?

[Pyraxis]

I think that, including societal mores,
they are very effective. No clue how
much is a genetic issue.

LOL. I probably should have qualified the original question. Effective at what?

So, you're opposed to functionality?

No, but I'm biased in favor of the culture I know and the idea that it is best to step out of the predetermined social order and find your own path. If it turned out that castes based on genetic modification were more functional for species survival than what we have now, then I would have to overturn some of my beliefs.

To me, the worry would be in speciazation.
And creating animal like 'humans'.

Why would animal like humans bother you?

[Calandale]

has anyone here tried to get a female dog pregnant by having sex with it?

that wouldn't work.

I tried, but it was obvious it
would hurt her. I don't like to
hurt.

[Calandale]

I think that, including societal mores,
they are very effective. No clue how
much is a genetic issue.

LOL. I probably should have qualified the original question. Effective at what?

Suppressing rebelliousness. Turning people into cogs.

No, but I'm biased in favor of the culture I know and the idea that it is best to step out of the predetermined social order and find your own path. If it turned out that castes based on genetic modification were more functional for species survival than what we have now, then I would have to overturn some of my beliefs.

Figures. Have you ever read Lewis' Space Trilogy?
I think in the first book, the villain essentially takes
the same attitude - it gets turned against him
by being noted that essentially he doesn't care
what the twisted product of humanity eventually
is, just so long as it survives. Just because survival
mechanisms are natural, doesn't give them any
moral standing.

Why would animal like humans bother you?

Shit, I don't know. I'm troubled by it.
But they might serve a purpose. But,
I'm bothered by anything which reeks of
slavery. I don't like that we used actual
animals. And I doubt that I'd be happy
with robots, with limited intellect, and
lesser status than humans.

But, for 'effectiveness'

Hell, I guess it's fine, so long as we
don't allow the lower castes to make
decisions.

applies. But, it troubles me.

Then again, I'm opposed to human-like
humans. 

[richard]

has anyone here tried to get a female dog pregnant by having sex with it?

that wouldn't work.

I tried, but it was obvious it
would hurt her. I don't like to
hurt.

whatever you arent that big, or are you.

post the pictures of the dog

[Calandale]

Dog's are not big.
She was a virgin.

It wasn't something I would
do.

[richard]

You took her for a walk and then decided to fuck her didnt you!

[Calandale]

No. Nothing that unplanned.

[Pyraxis]

LOL. I probably should have qualified the original question. Effective at what?

Suppressing rebelliousness. Turning people into cogs.

Yeah, see, that wasn't what I meant by effective. I was thinking about evolution.

Have you ever read Lewis' Space Trilogy?
I think in the first book, the villain essentially takes
the same attitude - it gets turned against him
by being noted that essentially he doesn't care
what the twisted product of humanity eventually
is, just so long as it survives.

Haven't read it. I never said which beliefs I would have to overturn, though. I like to keep my systems as internally consistent as I can, so I'd have to either question my belief that effective closely correlates with good, or question my judgement that castes are bad. I don't know which would win out - that's a whole conversation of its own.

Just because survival
mechanisms are natural, doesn't give them any
moral standing.

And there's belief number one, right there, so I guess the conversation starts here - how strong is the correlation between effective and ethical?

I use "is it effective?" as a safeguard question against self-destructive cycles, which is part of where I got the idea that effectiveness=good. Are you interested in arguing this one? Cause if you are, I'll go dig out the essay where I first became convinced that the correlation is stronger than commonly thought. But I don't want to start pontificating otherwise.

I'm bothered by anything which reeks of
slavery. I don't like that we used actual
animals. And I doubt that I'd be happy
with robots, with limited intellect, and
lesser status than humans.

And I suppose this ties into your oppostion to whoever seems to have too much power here on Intensity?

[Calandale]

And there's belief number one, right there, so I guess the conversation starts here - how strong is the correlation between effective and ethical?

You're talking to someone who doesn't even
have a clear understanding of what is right or
wrong. So, though I can assess what is effective,
no chance in hell that I can do so with ethics.

Now, if you want to argue from societal ethics,
I don't think you'll find me in any disagreement.
I've mostly agreed with Marvin Harris, who exemplifies
 this school of sociology. Whatever mechanisms we
tend to see as right - whatever taboos there are, almost
all have some basis in survival mechanisms.

I use "is it effective?" as a safeguard question against self-destructive cycles, which is part of where I got the idea that effectiveness=good. Are you interested in arguing this one? Cause if you are, I'll go dig out the essay where I first became convinced that the correlation is stronger than commonly thought. But I don't want to start pontificating otherwise.

But, I don't view self destruction as less ethical
than survival. Indeed, as I've stated before, I see
destruction as somewhat more beautiful, and thus
preferable. So, without some significant change in
the whole style of proof, you're not likely to budge
me.

And I suppose this ties into your oppostion to whoever seems to have too much power here on Intensity?

A softball, if I've ever seen one. 
I'm sure there's a similarity. I dislike anything
'unfair' whatever the fuck that means.

Oh look, I still can't hit anything that's not
thrown hard. 

[Pyraxis]

I'd rather argue from personal ethics. So if you don't have any - yeah, I guess the argument's going to go nowhere fast. But don't you have a strict code of honor, by your own statements elsewhere? Argue from that, if nothing else - I still don't even know what it is.

If you're too unsure of right and wrong to argue ethics, then why'd you even start this thread? Just to collect others' opinions?

As for softballs - the last comment wasn't even supposed to be part of the debate, just observation of a correlation. But I'll throw them harder if you like.

[Calandale]

I'd rather argue from personal ethics. So if you don't have any - yeah, I guess the argument's going to go nowhere fast. But don't you have a strict code of honor, by your own statements elsewhere? Argue from that, if nothing else - I still don't even know what it is.

Yes. I do. But, I don't find it defensible.
Indeed, it seems a liability. Perhaps intentionally
so. I mean, for me to view approaching another
person as immoral just makes no sense at all. Makes
me wonder if 'tis only a way of covering my shortcomings.
Like not being willing to succeed.

If you're too unsure of right and wrong to argue ethics, then why'd you even start this thread? Just to collect others' opinions?

I'm not that self aware. Boredom. Thoughts.
I don't have some overarching purpose. If I did,
it would have to be pathetic - like how to waste as
much time on bbs's as I can. 

As for softballs - the last comment wasn't even supposed to be part of the debate, just observation of a correlation. But I'll throw them harder if you like.

Ah, see I presumed you were trying to
spark me into a rant. Always seeing hidden
motives, and figured you were bored, and
enjoyed the attacks more than the slithering
away.

[Pyraxis]

Yes. I do. But, I don't find it defensible.
Indeed, it seems a liability. Perhaps intentionally
so. I mean, for me to view approaching another
person as immoral just makes no sense at all. Makes
me wonder if 'tis only a way of covering my shortcomings.
Like not being willing to succeed.

That was my guess, but I hoped there was something more. You certainly invest a lot of energy in following it, despite opposition (yeah I know, opposition's fun, but don't tell me you want all of what you've gotten). And that's got to have a motivation.

Ah, see I presumed you were trying to
spark me into a rant. Always seeing hidden
motives, and figured you were bored, and
enjoyed the attacks more than the slithering
away.

Not bored - actually I'm trying to tear myself away from this place and get something creative done, but then the debate got interesting and I kept coming back. When I'm on here too much it's not boredom, it's addiction to the instant gratification and ease of interation.

[Calandale]

Yes. I do. But, I don't find it defensible.
Indeed, it seems a liability. Perhaps intentionally
so. I mean, for me to view approaching another
person as immoral just makes no sense at all. Makes
me wonder if 'tis only a way of covering my shortcomings.
Like not being willing to succeed.

That was my guess, but I hoped there was something more. You certainly invest a lot of energy in following it, despite opposition (yeah I know, opposition's fun, but don't tell me you want all of what you've gotten). And that's got to have a motivation.

The motivation (if any - I don't buy musts, ever), is unknown.
Sometimes, it seems almost as though 'tis some mystical code,
merely handed to me - the absolute pattern of 'right'. Others,
I doubt that 'tis more than a way to hide. Usually - both.

Not bored - actually I'm trying to tear myself away from this place and get something creative done, but then the debate got interesting and I kept coming back. When I'm on here too much it's not boredom, it's addiction to the instant gratification and ease of interation.

Work. It's more fun.