Ask Nomaken anything

[Merry Widow]

and i'm just saying that two wrongs don't make a right - i agree with you that it is wrong for a woman to accuse someone of rape just because her alcohol intake effected her judgement and / or she gave in to emotional blackmail. so, i don't understand why you are advocating that men should behave in a way that you condemn.

[Merry Widow]

it's a double standard that results in guys going to jail because of women baulking at their own actions the next morning,

another thing that you should ask yourself is why? some women are inclined to do that - ever read To Kill A Mockingbird? if society put less pressure on women to be sexually "pure" this behaviour would decrease, i'm sure.

[Peter]

and i'm just saying that two wrongs don't make a right - i agree with you that it is wrong for a woman to accuse someone of rape just because her alcohol intake effected her judgement and / or she gave in to emotional blackmail. so, i don't understand why you are advocating that men should behave in a way that you condemn.

I'm not advocating that at all; I'd like both genders to take responsibility for their actions and for people to stop being so cowardly and litigious in general.  However, as long as this situation proves advantageous to women, it'll find support under the banner of feminism, so the quickest way of rectifying the situation may be to up the absurdity of the situation, so that everyone gets shocked and atually thinks critically about what's going on, rather than religiously following a dogmatic position. 

Take the "women can't give consent if they're dunk" argument as an example.  As long as women can use that as a stick to beat guys with (for whatever reason, and I'm not saying that all women would do this), it'll have little opposition from the feminist camp, and men who oppose it will be labeled chauvanists.  If, however, "women can't give consent if they're dunk" became "people can't give consent while they're drunk", then the first case of two people having sex and then charging each other with rape (possibly when one counter-charges to an initial charge by the other) would force a sudden reexamination of the situation, since nobody would be able to ignore just how fucked up it was.

Sometimes the quickest way to make something better is to make it worse first, so that people sit up and pay attention.

[Lucifer]

there's a difference between being taken advantage of, and getting so stupidly pissed you don't know what the fuck you're doing.

another example:  i will fight until my dying breath for women to be able to wear what they want, to be able to walk the streets at any time of the day or night safely, etc., etc.  but i ain't going to wander down the nearest red light district with my tits hanging out, pissed out of my head and wearing nothing much more than fuck me boots and a smile.  whilst i think i should be able to, i'm a realist, and i take responsibility for my behaviour.  there's fighting for a cause, and there's being practical.

katy roife started this "decide whether or not it's rape after the fact" stuff (as far as i know), and has done no favours whatsoever to those of us fighting to make the treatment of rape victims fairer and less traumatic.  there is a case for becoming aware of sexual abuse/rape with hindsight, though - it's happened to me, and it took someone else to help me realise what had happened - i'd refused to acknowledge it, due the horribility of the whole thing.

so i don't think there's a definite, clear rule of thumb, here.  so one has to err on the side of caution.

it basically needs massive re-education - both men and women - as to what's acceptable behaviour, and what isn't.  we appear to be back to responsibility, again.  is it any wonder it's one of my hobby horses...?   

[Merry Widow]

and i'm just saying that two wrongs don't make a right - i agree with you that it is wrong for a woman to accuse someone of rape just because her alcohol intake effected her judgement and / or she gave in to emotional blackmail. so, i don't understand why you are advocating that men should behave in a way that you condemn.

I'm not advocating that at all; I'd like both genders to take responsibility for their actions and for people to stop being so cowardly and litigious in general.? However, as long as this situation proves advantageous to women, it'll find support under the banner of feminism, so the quickest way of rectifying the situation may be to up the absurdity of the situation, so that everyone gets shocked and atually thinks critically about what's going on, rather than religiously following a dogmatic position.?

Take the "women can't give consent if they're dunk" argument as an example.? As long as women can use that as a stick to beat guys with (for whatever reason, and I'm not saying that all women would do this), it'll have little opposition from the feminist camp, and men who oppose it will be labeled chauvanists.? If, however, "women can't give consent if they're dunk" became "people can't give consent while they're drunk", then the first case of two people having sex and then charging each other with rape (possibly when one counter-charges to an initial charge by the other) would force a sudden reexamination of the situation, since nobody would be able to ignore just how fucked up it was.

Sometimes the quickest way to make something better is to make it worse first, so that people sit up and pay attention.

are you seriously suggesting that you think it would be a good idea for more innocent people to be accused and convicted of rape, just for the sake of raising awareness?! also, that plan of action wouldn't necessarily lead to enlightenment about the issue; it could just as easily go the opposite way and lead to a society where people have to fill out paper work and sign consent forms, before they're allowed to fuck each other.  i'm sure that Bin Laden and his pals thought they were doing a good job of creating awareness about western economic domination when they planned the 9/11 attacks but that doesn't necessarily make it right, does it?

[Merry Widow]

also, think of all the tax-payers' money that would be wasted on taking these people to court and keeping them incarcerated (for crimes they are not even guilty of).

[Peter]

are you seriously suggesting that you think it would be a good idea for more innocent people to be accused and convicted of rape, just for the sake of raising awareness?! also, that plan of action wouldn't necessarily lead to enlightenment about the issue; it could just as easily go the opposite way and lead to a society where people have to fill out paper work and sign consent forms, before they're allowed to fuck each other.  i'm sure that Bin Laden and his pals thought they were doing a good job of creating awareness about western economic domination when they planned the 9/11 attacks but that doesn't necessarily make it right, does it?

I think it's better that men and women be equal in having to tread carefully, than that women should have a legal trump card that they can play against any guy they don't like, or to soothe their concience after little daddy's girl has a wild night on the town and wakes up naked with some guy.  Ideally we should all be adults about it, but since when was life ideal?  I'll settle for equality of stupidiy while we work on getting equality of the level-headed.

How would it really affect the number of rape charges though?  Would a women be so quick to accuse a guy of rape after a drunken night if he could accuse her right back?  Perhaps more people would go to jail, perhaps fewer people would go to jail, but if someone can accuse me of raping them on the sole basis of them being drunk, it should be my right as an equal to them to accuse them right back for doing the exact same thing to me. 

[Merry Widow]

How would it really affect the number of rape charges though?? Would a women be so quick to accuse a guy of rape after a drunken night if he could accuse her right back??

possibly. but, in the worst case scenario, it might even become a competition to see who can report the "crime" to the authorities the quickest.

Perhaps more people would go to jail, perhaps fewer people would go to jail, but if someone can accuse me of raping them on the sole basis of them being drunk, it should be my right as an equal to them to accuse them right back for doing the exact same thing to me.?

but, wouldn't it be better  if neither sex were able to accuse the other of a crime that hasn't really been committed? i don't see how imposing more dysfunctional legislation on people would make that goal manifest any quicker (and it would cause the problems that i have mentioned in my previous posts, too).

[Peter]

The legislation is already quite thoroughly dysfunctional; the change I proposed wouldn't make it more dysfunctional, but it would make it more equal in how the harm of the dysfunction is dealt out, and make the dysfunction more obvious, thus affecting change more quickly.  Of course it would be better if neither sex could accuse the other of non-existent crimes, but what universe is that ever going to happen in?

[Merry Widow]

The legislation is already quite thoroughly dysfunctional; the change I proposed wouldn't make it more dysfunctional, but it would make it more equal in how the harm of the dysfunction is dealt out, and make the dysfunction more obvious, thus affecting change more quickly.? Of course it would be better if neither sex could accuse the other of non-existent crimes, but what universe is that ever going to happen in?

dysfunction for equality! 

just to illustrate how bizarre your suggestion is, imagine if women had demanded that no one  was allowed to vote until they were allowed to do so, too. for a start, it wouldn't have happened because The Men wouldn't have allowed it to and, secondly, you would be doing society more harm than good by taking away the rights of a high percentage of its citizens.

on a practical note, i suggest that you campaign for equality the same way that women did - by chaining yourselves to railings and throwing yourselves under race horses. i've got some chains, if you'd like to borrow them..... 

[Lucifer]

great.  now all we need is someone with a handy racehorse...

[Sanityisoverrated]

I have a racing snail if that's of any use.

[Nomaken]

I think if they make it a nightmare for both the victim and the aggressor in a rape case, then while that isn't fair, it would prevent rape more overall because the aggressor would be scared shitless of having to deal with the nightmare that is the rape trial.

Something I want to note is that, the fact that the courts are biased in womens favor is a huge reason while I will never approach a woman or do anything without explicit permission.  Not that I believe that they will really use it against me, i am not so distrusting of women, i'm just so scared.

[Merry Widow]

Something I want to note is that, the fact that the courts are biased in womens favor is a huge reason while I will never approach a woman or do anything without explicit permission.? Not that I believe that they will really use it against me, i am not so distrusting of women, i'm just so scared.

that's just life, i'm afraid - humans are constantly dreaming up ways to fuck each other over. i could  get raped while just walking home from work; similarly, you could  get accused of rape when all you did was have consensual sex. or, either of us could get hit by a car because we misjudged the speed of the on-coming traffic when crossing the road.

all you can do is try to avoid taking unnecessary risks, without letting it completely take over your life; in your case that would probably mean not sleeping with people that you don't know well enough to trust and - in my case - it would probably mean not going out alone, at night.

[McGiver]

its just sex.

as long as force or violence isn't involved, then it has no business being defined as rape.
because there are many women who are raped: in the traditional sense.
and all the new definitions of rape are making a mockery out of true victims of rape.

you do realize that both sides of this topic is about controlling anothers ability.