Author Topic: Not that you are able to back yourself on your site for the things you say...  (Read 6238 times)

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Offline odeon

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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Al Swearegen

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Still lying and misrepresenting what I say, I see. Also love it how you ignore the numbers, how you conveniently avoid the hard facts. Here's another one for you to avoid:



Only an idiot would ignore the numbers in this one, don't you think?

Of course, only an idiot would only ever try to do anything about only one of them, but banning all Muslims from entering the US is about as effective as banning IKEA from importing their furniture to prevent those nasty furniture-related deaths.

Only an idiot, and a bigoted one at that, would propose anything like that.

Again, WHEN there is a Swedish specific incident of the likes of Brussels or Paris, I expect you to take it all with good humour when I crack tasteless jokes about the falling furniture. I expect you to laugh along with me.

I will tell you what only an idiot would do. Only an idiot would confuse "radical Muslim extremism" with a argument about "gun violence". I have not made that mistake.

What the Americans choose to do with their guns and their gun laws is completely up to them. The impact on their issues surrounding US based radical Islamic extremism and difficulties vetting Muslim immigrants that are radical extremists from those that are not, is non-existent, as it relates to guns. They are two different topics. Happy to share my opinion on both but I am not going to pretend they are inexorably connected. They aren't. They connections are not that much greater than IKEA furniture.

Now as to looking at why people may commit mass murder against American citizens.
* Mental health
* Gang related
* Radicalised Islamic Terrorism
* School Bullying

Looking at these things is important. If you are not pro-active with keeping on top of gangs then gang violence will run rampant. If you shit down Mental health clinics and your ability to service the mentally ill in your community fails, you are going to have people become a danger to themselves or others in higher numbers. If you are able to address school bullying well enough, you are less likely to get the incidences or kids trying to kill other kids. If you increase and better your vetting processes and if you take care of 900 US-based Islamic extremism cases then you may reduce the chance of another Tamerlan Tsarnaev or Dzhokhar Tsarnaev or Omar Mateen or Syed Rizwan Farook or Tashfeen Malik or Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez. 

Gun control is a separate issue and one that the Americans can make up their minds about but regardless of what they do it will not stop this kind of radicalised Islamic extremist violence. Will it stop those hateful individuals making pressure cooker bombs like the Boston bombers made or the pipe bombs that the San Bernadino made? Would it stop them targeting whom they targeted? What would it have actually prevented? Do you think that Omar Mateen would have left the gays at the Pulse alone if he had no legal firearm? Do you think he would have done less damage to them that night without one? Do you think he may have moved on and put those hateful idea away?

You can have an argument about gun violence or the ills of falling furniture. I am not a party to that and my wish not to be a party to that is not me being bigoted. The two have pretty much nothing to do with each other.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Al Swearegen

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And while I'm at it:

http://www.writerbeat.com/articles/8499-What-Adolf-Hitler-Can-Teach-Us-About-Our-View-of-Muslim-Immigrants

Read it and unimpressed.

Some people hate all Muslims. Its not too hard to find people who are intolerant. People that will judge everyone of a particular race, sex, sexual preference, religion, nationality as all being the same.

I have yet to see what this unsurprising revelation has to do with anything. Do you think that Donald Trump or the majority of the American public supporting him or myself has anything against the moderate Muslim that makes America their home OR (pay attention) do they have very real concerns with the type of people that may Bomb airports (like Brussels), Bomb cities (London Bombings), bomb a celebrated city's marathon (Boston bombings), Muslim rape gangs (Rothertham rape gangs), or perhaps this http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/cologne-is-every-day-europes-rape-epidemic/news-story/e2e618e17ad4400b5ed65045e65e141d ?

IF these things ARE real and are a result of radicalised Muslim extremism NOT moderate Islamic beliefs, then where is the danger and the concern and is it justified that Americans may not want it in their country? You already have it, your swimming pools are now gender segregated apparently to stop the sexual assaults on young girls and women and your music festivals are making headlines for all the wrong reasons. Your nation has the dubious headline of being the rape capital of the world. ALL as a result of badly vetted Muslim immigration and open borders policy. You are not in a position to really act outraged. Swedes have let their country turn into the rape capital of the world and now you would see fit to tell others in the world how they can keep THEIR citizens safe? Get off your moral high horse and do not think that a person making attempts (no matter how inept they are or are not or how practical they are) to address a system you refuse to take seriously even when it is hurting your own country's women and children, is bigoted because they are working on ways to distinguish decent Muslims from radical Islamic extremists that are hurting countries like yours.

Great chat, Odeon. Keep your family away from your rock concerts and swimming pools at a minimum.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Al Swearegen

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Oh, and go right ahead. A few thousand words in your next post should be enough to hide how embarrassing your opinions really are.

Embarrassing or confronting? If the best you can do is to say "You are a bigot" when I disagree with you and then are unable to make serious points against me. I talk about what Trump said about wanting to freeze Muslim immigration whilst he attends to improving the vetting systems and processes, you point to what he said later about wanting to ban All Muslims. I don't and have not had a position on that so I am not defending or moved by any of your efforts to bang on about it. not interested in it. Speak to someone that is.
Next you try the gun violence problem. The "gun violence problem" is not an issue I am overly interested in. I am not interested in that either. That issue is not the radical Islamic extremist issue so again, not that interested.

I think the reason you try to distract with these red herrings is NOT because you are embarrassed by this, but rather because you find it confront and NOT because it is bigoted but because it makes too much sense to refute. If you could you would but you can't so you try red herrings and accusations of bigotry. 

Weak.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline MLA

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I'm so sick to death of this shit that I have decided to spam it going forward.  Will remain boring to everyone else, but will at least entertain ME!

(Really, is anything more important than that?)

Offline MLA

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I'm thinking Star Trek fan fiction.






Offline Al Swearegen

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http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/william-shatner-opens-up-deathbed-864547

I do not think there was any romantic affiliations.

On another note. Odeon is full of shit lately.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline 'andersom'

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Relief is possible, for the brave.

 :meditate:

Others may need to seek help from the not yet emerged forum proctologist.
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline Al Swearegen

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Relief is possible, for the brave.

 :meditate:

Others may need to seek help from the not yet emerged forum proctologist.

I do not need relief nor a proctologist
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Al Swearegen

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Still lying and misrepresenting what I say, I see. Also love it how you ignore the numbers, how you conveniently avoid the hard facts. Here's another one for you to avoid:



Only an idiot would ignore the numbers in this one, don't you think?

Of course, only an idiot would only ever try to do anything about only one of them, but banning all Muslims from entering the US is about as effective as banning IKEA from importing their furniture to prevent those nasty furniture-related deaths.

Only an idiot, and a bigoted one at that, would propose anything like that.

Again, WHEN there is a Swedish specific incident of the likes of Brussels or Paris, I expect you to take it all with good humour when I crack tasteless jokes about the falling furniture. I expect you to laugh along with me.

I will tell you what only an idiot would do. Only an idiot would confuse "radical Muslim extremism" with a argument about "gun violence". I have not made that mistake.

What the Americans choose to do with their guns and their gun laws is completely up to them. The impact on their issues surrounding US based radical Islamic extremism and difficulties vetting Muslim immigrants that are radical extremists from those that are not, is non-existent, as it relates to guns. They are two different topics. Happy to share my opinion on both but I am not going to pretend they are inexorably connected. They aren't. They connections are not that much greater than IKEA furniture.

Now as to looking at why people may commit mass murder against American citizens.
* Mental health
* Gang related
* Radicalised Islamic Terrorism
* School Bullying

Looking at these things is important. If you are not pro-active with keeping on top of gangs then gang violence will run rampant. If you shit down Mental health clinics and your ability to service the mentally ill in your community fails, you are going to have people become a danger to themselves or others in higher numbers. If you are able to address school bullying well enough, you are less likely to get the incidences or kids trying to kill other kids. If you increase and better your vetting processes and if you take care of 900 US-based Islamic extremism cases then you may reduce the chance of another Tamerlan Tsarnaev or Dzhokhar Tsarnaev or Omar Mateen or Syed Rizwan Farook or Tashfeen Malik or Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez. 

Gun control is a separate issue and one that the Americans can make up their minds about but regardless of what they do it will not stop this kind of radicalised Islamic extremist violence. Will it stop those hateful individuals making pressure cooker bombs like the Boston bombers made or the pipe bombs that the San Bernadino made? Would it stop them targeting whom they targeted? What would it have actually prevented? Do you think that Omar Mateen would have left the gays at the Pulse alone if he had no legal firearm? Do you think he would have done less damage to them that night without one? Do you think he may have moved on and put those hateful idea away?

You can have an argument about gun violence or the ills of falling furniture. I am not a party to that and my wish not to be a party to that is not me being bigoted. The two have pretty much nothing to do with each other.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/664977/Sweden-terror-warning-US-embassy-avoid-crowded-places-festivals

Your turn to find the International news media telling people going to Sweden to avoid falling Ikea. The heightened risk ought to make that rather easy, right Odeon?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Al Swearegen

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If it makes you feel better Odeon, you are not the only Swede that minimises the radical Islamic threat to your country and minimises the internationally highlighted immigrant rape crisis.

http://theduran.com/feminist-politician-says-swedish-men-rape-choice-migrants-rape-ignorance/
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline 'andersom'

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That woman is a moron, if those are her words. (My knowledge of Swedish is almost non existent). Rape is rape.

It's bloody bigoted, singling Muslims out that way. Rape is a power game.

Keeping possible victims of rape inside and escorted all the time is the other side of the same power game.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 11:52:47 AM by 'andersom' »
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline 'andersom'

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^

Oh, I'm saying that as a feminist.  :hyke: :hyke: :hyke:
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline Al Swearegen

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^

Oh, I'm saying that as a feminist.  :hyke: :hyke: :hyke:

I would agree with you. It does not seem that this is a singular thought in Sweden either

https://www.barritrad.com/swedish-feminists-please-dont-protect-us-get-raped-immigrants/

It is what I was saying before. Being liberal and open and inclusive and accepting, are great ideals. But there has to be a want to protect yourself. If as a nation your ideological and cultural forces push a want to do these things and minimise harm to your citizens....its kind of a big deal.

The risk of being called a bigot for pointing out uncomfortable truths in such an environment seems to me to be a risk worth taking.

Pretending that there is never any real issue worth addressing does not seem the better option. Saying "Being called the rape capital of the world is undeserved" is A way of dealing with the issue but not the best way. Giving out "Don't grope braclets" as a way of highlighting the issue of the sexual assaults and rapes at Swedish music concerts and finding out at the end the 4 rapes and 30 sexual assaults were by men wearing said bracelets". To have "groping guards" in a swimming pool specifically to stop immigrants from sexually assault young girls and women, before decided that does work and resorting to gender segregated times at the swimming pool to stop this happening, is terrible.

What is worse is to say there is no real issue. What is worse is to collectively and as a nation fail to protect the women and children of the nation from a real threat based on an ideology. Though the falling furniture analogies was never particularly clever.

This is certainly not to say that all Muslims rape. It is not going close to saying that. It IS saying that whilst there is moderate Muslims wanting to adopt the host country's customs and values and assimilate and integrate into the society, there is a scary dangerous element that does not. These people ARE a problem and minimising their effect on a nation is outrageously bad. Comparing their effect to falling furniture or distracting with gun violence, is crazy.

If though we can accept that in many countries (and Sweden is notable but not exclusive) in Europe are having this issue with poorly vetted Muslim migrants and issues of Muslims (unlike the moderate respectful Muslims wanting to make the host nation their home), then it would be crazy for someone from a country that is now facing such terrible problems to advise or condemn another country's harsh proposal for border protection.

Open and inclusive and accepting only goes so far before it gets taken advantage of.

Belgium is hardly in a position to scold other countries for example on their heightened airport screening. Germany would be remiss if they tried to tell other countries how to keep women and girls safe on New Years Eve celebrations.

The "well, our country may have gone to Hell but at least we did not compromise of values or give the impression that we were racist, xenophobic or Islamaphobic" doesn't impress me much. I think even were you to compromise on such values, the country's citizens are more important and the ability to address real problems. We do that in Australia too.

Its all about minimising harm (in the form of better vetting and zero tolerance policies) and being willing to identify actual issues as they come up (before you have to disclaim international media headlines about your country).



I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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And the bigot draws the wrong conclusions on the wrong numbers, seeing only what he wants to see. Well done, Al. From intellectually dishonest to a bigot in a matter of months. You've actually become toxic.

Probably not what you had in mind, eh?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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