INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: odeon on January 03, 2019, 03:42:50 PM
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Post your walls here.
(http://atheistcards.com/wp-content/uploads/build-a-wall-trump.jpg)
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I like this one.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MS7LE9oayjk/maxresdefault.jpg)
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This is sort of amusing.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6lLnE8MjN0c/XCPedQilPzI/AAAAAAAAVzg/9BrJQsNV_1gQz5mpXo76SvcYJNZMo7k3wCK4BGAYYCw/s1600/weak%2Bspots%2Bin%2Bwall.jpg)
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Here's another wall. They got the message years before Trump thought of running for president.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sPKpQSPe6sY/UX805lb_SqI/AAAAAAAAGME/_3AaRKWW_kM/s1600/Pink_Floyd_-_The_Wall.jpg)
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LMAO! :plus: (when it lets me)
(oh! PS that's for the "possible vunerable spots" You posted yet another whilst I was typing)
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And this one is funny.
(https://i.redd.it/w6dyil7xolcy.jpg)
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And, you know, it's just so easy to provide arguments against Trump's monumental stupidity:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HuMAAMXQjWtRNZTx/s-l300.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/gQbkWyCm.jpg)
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(https://pics.me.me/how-do-mexicans-feel-about-trumps-wall-they-ll-get-13227128.png)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKvAKROiwk4
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgXPtDR-xQ
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And, you know, it's just so easy to provide arguments against Trump's monumental stupidity:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HuMAAMXQjWtRNZTx/s-l300.jpg)
::) ::) ::)
Uuum, yeah. this is why the Left can't meme.
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(https://media.makeameme.org/created/trump-should-just-akuitr.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/LxJFNiCm.jpg)
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(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/092/938/d98.gif)
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This one's a bit outdated..... but he makes a very good point. +1 to Donald.
(https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/imageedit_1194_7108850516.jpg)
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(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/092/938/d98.gif)
Once again, the Left can't meme. ::) ::) ::)
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(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/81633267.jpg)
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Oh tell you AGAIN? Did we tell you first time?
Is Mexico going to pay for the wall in one lump sum or in installments or piecemeal?
Are they going to pay in kind or write out a cheque? Is it going to simply be an equivalent amount offset in savings? What might those savings be?
(https://i.imgflip.com/2qn032.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/SUmK0yMm.jpg)
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(http://politicalpunchline.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/hillary-trump-wall-cabinet.jpg)
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(https://i.imgflip.com/2qn032.jpg)
Wow.
That just takes political double-speak to a whole new level.
No, I never thought Mexico was gonna cut a cheque for the wall. Or pay for it at all except in Trump's imagination. But "Mexico is gonna pay for the wall" now means "American taxpayers are gonna pay for the wall" and no amount of circular gobbledygook is gonna make that anything except bullshit. Or justify closing down a big chunk of the economy.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/2qn032.jpg)
Wow.
That just takes political double-speak to a whole new level.
No, I never thought Mexico was gonna cut a cheque for the wall. Or pay for it at all except in Trump's imagination. But "Mexico is gonna pay for the wall" now means "American taxpayers are gonna pay for the wall" and no amount of circular gobbledygook is gonna make that anything except bullshit. Or justify closing down a big chunk of the economy.
Wow, that was a pretty ridiculous thing to say.
1) Aid
$14 000 000 000 in aid to Mexico every year
2) Total Governmental Expenditures on Illegal Aliens
Federal Cost of illegal immigrants - $45,870,474,332
State and Local Costs of Illegal Immigrants - $88,992,981,032
Total National costs of illegal immigrants - $132,863,455,365
Federal Tax received from Illegal immigrants - $15,447,897,700
Local and state Taxes received from illegal immigrants - $3,520,960,000
Total national taxes received from illegal immigrants - $18,968,857,700
Total cost of illegal immigration - $132,863,455,365 - $18,968,857,700 = $113, 894, 597, 665
3) Money sent home to Mexico
Over $23 000 000 000
4) DRUGS
The NDIC estimates that the annual cost of drug-related crime in the United States is more than $61 billion with criminal justice system cost making up $56 billion of that cost.
Crack cocaine and methamphetamine are the drugs that most often contribute to the commission of crimes in the U.S., according to the National Drug Threat Survey. Heroin use is a significant factor in the commission of property crimes.
From 63 percent to 83 percent of all arrestees test positive for illicit substances at the time of their arrest, according to the Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring Program (ADAM II), which monitors arrestees in 10 cities across the U.S. Twelve percent to 50 percent of arrestees test positive for more than one drug in their system when arrested.
*Note 1 and 2 are all illegal immigrants and not just Mexicans AND 4 is indicative of the kind of cost wrought from easily transported drugs from Mexico walked across open borders*
So in short there is a shitload of expenses that Mexico is costing the US.
If the wall costs $5 billion and Trump is able to reduce either the actual present day costs in these line items by $5 billion or more then Mexico has paid for the wall and reimbursed the cost of the government to front the initial costs and likewise if the wall halts or reduces future escalation of costs projected from not having a wall, by at least $5 billion, the same applies.
Mexico pays for it.
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Does Trump have concrete plans to deduct the cost of the wall from any aid payments currently going to Mexico? If not, it's a bollocks argument.
Will the wall be money proof, and somehow stop people sending money to their families? If not, it's another bollocks argument.
Will the wall actually keep illegal aliens out? Most illegal aliens don't sneak across the border. That's why you have people saying that the wall is a metaphor for the intent to keep illegal aliens out of the country. More bollocks.
Will the wall keep drugs out? Most drugs enter the US in a variety of ways through legal border crossings. Even if it did stop some channels, would it actually reduce the cost of the war on drugs, seeing as the demand is still there and traffickers would simply find another way to bring in the small % of drugs that are carried across the border outside legal border crossings? By what mechanism is a wall supposedly going to reduce the cost of the war on drugs? And even if it did (which it won't).... how would that constitute Mexico paying for the wall?
Reality: Mexico aint paying for the wall.
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The latest on this is, of course, that apparently the wall is a mnemonic from Trump campaign workers to their goldfish boss. :rofl:
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Does Trump have concrete plans to deduct the cost of the wall from any aid payments currently going to Mexico? If not, it's a bollocks argument.
No idea, it is a possibility, one of a few I mentioned. Does Trump have concrete plans? He may have or may not have or may have non-concrete plans? You don't know..........at all.
Will the wall be money proof, and somehow stop people sending money to their families? If not, it's another bollocks argument.
Wrong question. IF the laws were changed to have a current US Visa to send a money order with Western Union and such?
Will the wall actually keep illegal aliens out? Most illegal aliens don't sneak across the border. That's why you have people saying that the wall is a metaphor for the intent to keep illegal aliens out of the country. More bollocks.
When you have an open border you have opened a multitude of options for crossing. These options reduce steadily. For example if you are a potential illegal immigrant living East of Chiahuahua in the Mexican state of the same name, not in fear for your life but seeing the temptation of hitch North East about 200 kms and slipping across the border into the Big Bend National Park. You may be aware of some idea of opportunities available and some benefits and think they compare favourably. Open border 200 kms to travel, open border. Welcome to America (unless of course that you find yourself running into a predatory cartel beforehand).
But what happens of you put a barrier up, would that make a difference? Course it would. What would this person's other options to cross be? Plane? Make it to the beach and hitch a ride on a boat?
Is it true that such a [person like this would be on your nominal tally of the immigrants who cross over? You seem to suggest MOST illegal immigrants do not cross across the porous border. How do you know?
Will the wall keep drugs out? Most drugs enter the US in a variety of ways through legal border crossings. Even if it did stop some channels, would it actually reduce the cost of the war on drugs, seeing as the demand is still there and traffickers would simply find another way to bring in the small % of drugs that are carried across the border outside legal border crossings? By what mechanism is a wall supposedly going to reduce the cost of the war on drugs? And even if it did (which it won't).... how would that constitute Mexico paying for the wall?
Most drugs cross through the legal ports. You know this because.....? If they knew how MOST of it came in, I suspect that most of the drugs would not be coming in.
Reduce the amount of drugs coming into US and you reduce the amount of expenses based on these drugs and the harm in society.
Reality: Mexico aint paying for the wall.
Sure they are just not upfront. The government will reimburse the initial cost through savings from Mexico.
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Wrong question. IF the laws were changed to have a current US Visa to send a money order with Western Union and such?
All your responses are funny. But this one especially.
WTF does changing the law to require a current US visa in order to send a money order have to do with Trump's proposed wall?
Nothing. You can change the law without a wall. Or you can have a wall and not change the law. The two are not related. Nice red herring but!
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(https://i.imgur.com/nayN9v4m.jpg)
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I love it how Al sounds like Trump. The same cluelessness, the same careless lie. Trump doesn't care so why should his supporters?
2020, the real issue will be about cutting through the noise.
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I think it's basically a dramatized PR stunt where the only wall that will be built is one from a huge stack of dollar bills from the repeated shakedowns of his brain washed supporters.
Congress already allocated money for repairs and upgrades to "the wall" in both 2017 & 2018 and it's reported only 6% of that has even been touched.
Now he makes a big speech proceeded by and followed up with a big ad campaign asking for more contributions from his supporters. Wonder how much he got from them this time? :laugh:
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There's one born every minute.
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Wrong question. IF the laws were changed to have a current US Visa to send a money order with Western Union and such?
All your responses are funny. But this one especially.
WTF does changing the law to require a current US visa in order to send a money order have to do with Trump's proposed wall?
Nothing. You can change the law without a wall. Or you can have a wall and not change the law. The two are not related. Nice red herring but!
You can? It is precisely about not what you can do but what Trump will do.
If his actions save the us money that Mexico would otherwise cost and his will is to save money for the wall, and he saves the value of the wall....voila
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Stupidonomics. When your last brain cell just died.
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(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Ffernandoalfonso%2Ffiles%2F2019%2F01%2Ftrump-wall1-1200x1111.jpg)
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Stupidonomics. When your last brain cell just died.
Not sure, you will have to describe the sensation.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/83/a6/1b83a6c06a104341e98db2a5e8fe8077.jpg)
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/83/a6/1b83a6c06a104341e98db2a5e8fe8077.jpg)
I dont think there is much of a choice a wall is coming up and your memes wont stop it
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(http://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED806/5a8984fa24b71.jpeg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/Wc9Az9jm.jpg)
...and in other news....$17M worth of fentanyl was seized at the Port of Philadelphia this morning.
That would be in Philadelphia, Pa
...on the EAST coast.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Wc9Az9jm.jpg)
...and in other news....$17M worth of fentanyl was seized at the Port of Philadelphia this morning.
That would be in Philadelphia, Pa
...on the EAST coast.
The except always makes the rule.
No dont disagree, it was such a lovely ogic you were displaying
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(https://i.imgur.com/bGOpOSHm.jpg)
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with Icequeen's ogic.
(I'm just gonna pretend like I know what an ogic is so I look clever).
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with Icequeen's ogic.
(I'm just gonna pretend like I know what an ogic is so I look clever).
Do you think exceptions make the rule?
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with Icequeen's ogic.
(I'm just gonna pretend like I know what an ogic is so I look clever).
Do you think exceptions make the rule?
Exceptions to what?
Exceptions to you posting bollocks? Exceptions to me posting bollocks?
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Sounds ogical to me.
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A white horse walks into a bar with an ogic.
The barman says "hey, we've got a whisky named after you". And the ogic says "okay, give me an ogic on the rocks then".
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with Icequeen's ogic.
(I'm just gonna pretend like I know what an ogic is so I look clever).
Do you think exceptions make the rule?
Exceptions to what?
Exceptions to you posting bollocks? Exceptions to me posting bollocks?
Excepts do not make the rule.
In the quoted instance was Icequeen having stated the most drugs come in through the legal ports of entry in the US.
To prove this, she showed $17 mill of Fentanyl was discovered. This proves.....not a lot.
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with Icequeen's ogic.
(I'm just gonna pretend like I know what an ogic is so I look clever).
Do you think exceptions make the rule?
Exceptions to what?
Exceptions to you posting bollocks? Exceptions to me posting bollocks?
Excepts do not make the rule.
In the quoted instance was Icequeen having stated the most drugs come in through the legal ports of entry in the US.
To prove this, she showed $17 mill of Fentanyl was discovered. This proves.....not a lot.
DEA figures might be interesting to you Al.
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with Icequeen's ogic.
(I'm just gonna pretend like I know what an ogic is so I look clever).
Do you think exceptions make the rule?
Exceptions to what?
Exceptions to you posting bollocks? Exceptions to me posting bollocks?
Excepts do not make the rule.
In the quoted instance was Icequeen having stated the most drugs come in through the legal ports of entry in the US.
To prove this, she showed $17 mill of Fentanyl was discovered. This proves.....not a lot.
DEA figures might be interesting to you Al.
Yes because they will show how much was transporyed into the US and from where NOT what amounts were stopped and from where, they will track where the drugs that were not intercepted and where they came from...right?
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I'd trust the DEA figures and projections over the non-existent data you're not offering Al.
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I'd trust the DEA figures and projections over the non-existent data you're not offering Al.
How much and from where did the drugs come that they did not discover and intercept? Out of interest AND (here is the big one) how do they know?
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Why don't you look it up? Surely it's preferable to basing your assumptions on Trump's lies.
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Sure some people coming across the border are carrying drugs....in "insufficient" quantities...in an attempt to make some money. Cash is king.
But it's not the dark ages...most of it is "transporyed" by truck, boat, plane, tunnel, homemade subs, or drones. Many times facilitated by people that live here and know the terrain and area they're dealing with better than any immigrant.
A wall is about as "effective" of a solution to any of this ....as cutting your leg off and putting a band aid on it is.
You block off "one" opening...but like hacking...there's always another route.
All this wall will serve as IMO...is an expensive monument to someone's fragile ego, let him build a statue instead for his worshipers to kneel at... and let the taxpayers spend the money on something we really need...like better healthcare.
That's my "ogic".
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Sure some people coming across the border are carrying drugs....in "insufficient" quantities...in an attempt to make some money. Cash is king.
But it's not the dark ages...most of it is "transporyed" by truck, boat, plane, tunnel, homemade subs, or drones. Many times facilitated by people that live here and know the terrain and area they're dealing with better than any immigrant.
A wall is about as "effective" of a solution to any of this ....as cutting your leg off and putting a band aid on it is.
You block off "one" opening...but like hacking...there's always another route.
All this wall will serve as IMO...is an expensive monument to someone's fragile ego, let him build a statue instead for his worshipers to kneel at... and let the taxpayers spend the money on something we really need...like better healthcare.
That's my "ogic".
There we go. Because a wall will not stop all illegal immigration and all associated crime and risk, then there should not be a wall. It HAS to be all or nothing. How much percentage of the budget does the wall represent and are you REALLY pretending $5 billion spend would mean that money that could be spent on healthcare can't be spent? You aren't that stupid so why pretend to make such a bad faith premise?
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Seriously Al, I'm done here....I don't have time or the crayons to deal with your "ogic".
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Back to the wall...
This is from a 1950's episode of the series "Trackdown"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSOwlXJj67Y
"Walter Trump" a snake oil salesman comes to a small western town...telling them the end of the world is near...and only he can save them...by building a wall.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trackdown-trump-character-wall/
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/e3/1f/4ae31fc112a95d4947e7a16700b47263.jpg)
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On a more serious note
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49673887_2514924058600633_4458683821461602304_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=5b53158dfd80e7d6c4b812c9245f2b57&oe=5CC9359F)
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The orange moron said the other day that in Honduras, "another caravan is forming".
This is how populism works. His "base" will take this as a confirmation of the importance of the wall.
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The orange moron said the other day that in Honduras, "another caravan is forming".
This is how populism works. His "base" will take this as a confirmation of the importance of the wall.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/a-new-migrant-caravan-is-forming-in-central-america-with-plans-to-leave-next-week/2019/01/10/611024ba-137f-11e9-ab79-30cd4f7926f2_story.html?utm_term=.91febb8a763b
1) Get your sources right
2) Get your narrative right
3) Do not presume to know anyone's mind start with your own mind and try to understand how stupid it is.
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You might want to
1) Work on your reading comprehension
2) Check what your master actually said
3) Confine yourself to a loo
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(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50301963_2239361982944449_8060309526051553280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=71b6a4424ced3af6d07c23ead51f7c42&oe=5CCE20FC)
It's a great point. Thoughts and prayers have saved countless children from mass shootings already.
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You might want to
1) Work on your reading comprehension
2) Check what your master actually said
3) Confine yourself to a loo
Great retort, By great I mean clown wig ridiculous
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My thoughts and prayers are with you, Al. I'm betting you'll notice a difference very shortly.
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My thoughts and prayers are with you, Al. I'm betting you'll notice a difference very shortly.
You would not notice reality if it kicked you in the head
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I need to practice at this praying thing. I only got it 50% right.
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(https://i.imgur.com/YFVLMu5m.jpg)
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Hand me the brain bleach, will you?
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Surprised this hasn't been posted yet:
(https://compote.slate.com/images/d2355553-c230-43c1-af21-38b8652be467.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=800x533&offset=0x100)
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
Of course it's not the real wall. Mexico's cheque is still in the mail.
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
Of course the actual wall will be insurmountable. Obviously. Duh. :rofl:
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
Of course the actual wall will be insurmountable. Obviously. Duh. :rofl:
If the US had been smart, we would've bought the Iron Curtain off of the former communist countries at the end of the cold war.
If we had done that, we would have probably 10.M fewer illegal Mexicans here.
Our wages would be higher and our rent/mortgages lower, not to mention less crime. :M
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
Of course the actual wall will be insurmountable. Obviously. Duh. :rofl:
If the US had been smart, we would've bought the Iron Curtain off of the former communist countries at the end of the cold war.
If we had done that, we would have probably 10.M fewer illegal Mexicans here.
Our wages would be higher and our rent/mortgages lower, not to mention less crime. :M
The east block built that wall, partly to prevent people to escape to the west. (The short version).
Do you see an analogy?
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
Of course the actual wall will be insurmountable. Obviously. Duh. :rofl:
If the US had been smart, we would've bought the Iron Curtain off of the former communist countries at the end of the cold war.
If we had done that, we would have probably 10.M fewer illegal Mexicans here.
Our wages would be higher and our rent/mortgages lower, not to mention less crime. :M
That's pretty clever Pappy, relating Trump's wall as a metaphor to the Iron Curtain as a metaphor.
Another option would be scattering Lego pieces along the border. Because nobody likes stepping on Lego.
Agree re wages and property/rent prices. You gotta think about who in first world countries actually benefits from immigration. It ain't the working class or the middle class.
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^^^That was a prototype that was being tested, not the actual wall being installed. ::)
Of course the actual wall will be insurmountable. Obviously. Duh. :rofl:
If the US had been smart, we would've bought the Iron Curtain off of the former communist countries at the end of the cold war.
If we had done that, we would have probably 10.M fewer illegal Mexicans here.
Our wages would be higher and our rent/mortgages lower, not to mention less crime. :M
So if you'd done (random unrealistic idea), your problems would be solved? Yes, I can see why you support him.
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If the US had been smart, we would've bought the Iron Curtain off of the former communist countries at the end of the cold war.
If we had done that, we would have probably 10.M fewer illegal Mexicans here.
Our wages would be higher and our rent/mortgages lower, not to mention less crime. :M
The east block built that wall, partly to prevent people to escape to the west. (The short version).
Yes, I know. I visited the Iron Curtain in the spring of 1988 somewhere in northern Germany. We got a 2 hour lecture on the history of it and I remember enough.
Do you see an analogy?
No, not at all. The Iron Curtain was built to keep its people from escaping to the west, not to keep westerners from invading in order to enjoy "the workers paradise".
Mexico hasn't built a wall to keep its workers from escaping because the Mexican economy has become dependent on Mexican nationals working and living in America, and sending their money south of the border to subsidize their corrupt political/economic structure.
If this flow of money was to be cut off, Mexico would either collapse, because the masses would no longer have enough money to live on, or they would have to enact sweeping reforms to root out the corruption that has had a stranglehold on their political system for roughly 70 years now.
The status quo can't continue. America needs to quit feeding Mexico's dysfunction.
That's pretty clever Pappy, relating Trump's wall as a metaphor to the Iron Curtain as a metaphor.
I wasn't doing that. The two situations are almost opposite, I don't see how anyone could make the connection if they looked at the 2 situations in anything other than the most simplistic terms.
Agree re wages and property/rent prices. You gotta think about who in first world countries actually benefits from immigration. It ain't the working class or the middle class.
Exactly. That's the message that Caesar Chavez had 60 years ago. He hated illegal immigrants because he considered them to be union busting scabs.
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So if you'd done (random unrealistic idea),
Not unrealistic at all. Tear it down, box it up, send it over, reassemble it. We did the same thing with the former London Bridge which is now in Lake Havasu City
(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/18/0d/34/london-bridge.jpg)
Yes, I can see why you support him.
I don't "support" him. I only agree with him when he's right. I voted for Gary Johnson, do you have the memory of a goldfish??
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OMG, I thought it was just a failed analogy but you actually are that stupid.
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Pappy is taking the piss. He has to be.
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You think?
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(https://i.imgflip.com/1wo5he.jpg)
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Pappy is taking the piss. He has to be.
No, this is exactly what I was thinking when I was at the Iron Curtain back in '88.
If we had the same barrier between Mexico and the US, we could keep the illegals from flowing across our border.
Do you know how formidable the Iron Curtain was??
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Pappy is taking the piss. He has to be.
No, this is exactly what I was thinking when I was at the Iron Curtain back in '88.
If we had the same barrier between Mexico and the US, we could keep the illegals from flowing across our border.
Do you know how formidable the Iron Curtain was??
The Iron Curtain was a metaphor. I think it was coined by Winston Churchill, or at least popularised by him.
There was an actual barrier called the Berlin Wall. Is that what you mean?
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Pappy is taking the piss. He has to be.
No, this is exactly what I was thinking when I was at the Iron Curtain back in '88.
If we had the same barrier between Mexico and the US, we could keep the illegals from flowing across our border.
Do you know how formidable the Iron Curtain was??
The Iron Curtain was a metaphor. I think it was coined by Winston Churchill, or at least popularised by him.
There was an actual barrier called the Berlin Wall. Is that what you mean?
Fuck! you are as ignorant and retarded as all fucking get out!! :fp:
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:congrats:
:lol1:
As you can see, I am currently lost for words.
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I just had a thought. Maybe they could buy the Bamboo Curtain from China? At least that'd be lighter and easier to ship.
(I'm joking if it wasn't painfully obvious)
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OK, now you're the one taking the piss. :poo:
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OK, now you're the one taking the piss. :poo:
Subtlety is not my strong suit.
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Republicans - Quietly think what Donald Trump says out loud.
That's literally all
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The iron curtain must have cost less than a wall. Less construction dangers too. And less effect on natural infrastructures.
A strip of land, a good amount of mines and barbed wire and lots of watchtowers.
But not that impressive from outer space as a true wall. And with negative connotations. After all, it is about making Trump great again. So, iron curtain will not do, I guess . :M
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My 13 year old son is a Cold War buff. I'll ask him tonight for a good explanation of what the Iron Curtain was.
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I've crossed it in the years it still was in use. A strip of land with nothing growing there. Barbed wire, watchtowers. Extreme searching of the train when going towards the West. Going East, they did not check for much more than the amount of money you brought in. You had to change 45 DM to 45 OstMark per day. That's how the east got some extra income. You were not allowed to change it back. You were not allowed to bring OstMark to the west.
The border also was something you could smell. Different energy sources.
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The thing to understand about the fences is that they WEREN'T made from barbed wire or even standard chain link fencing, they were made from expanded metal grating whose holes were too small to stick your fingers in like this.
(https://www.diamondplates.org/img/aluminum-raised-metal-grating.jpg)
It was also bolted to the posts with carriage bolts with the nuts facing the west so it couldn't be unbolted from the east.
(http://static.portlandbolt.com/uploads/2014/07/carriage_bolt1-374x250.jpg)
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There was barbed wire too.
The watchtowers, with guards ready to shoot, did a lot.
But then, they shot at their own citizens. That is a legal difference, I guess. :P
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(https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/pAjgj-wWppYUgwCf5t4G1q1YXwI=/553x708/filters:no_upscale()/against-immigration-leaving-56a7549d3df78cf77294af8d.jpg)
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I could be wrong, but I think is that Sitting Bull as he was preparing to address the Congress?
Now I have to go find the one with Geronimo and his chiefs, "praising" Homeland Security.
:angel:
Edit:
It is beyond sad that we do not know these great Americans.
It is not Sitting Bull and I thought maybe it was Red Cloud (only so many "savages" have ever been granted audience with Congress, you know) but it is not him either.
He is probably a random father and son, grandfather and grandson, uncle and brother, husband and chief and spiritual leader to all he knew.
Savages? Are you fucking kidding me?
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I asked my Cold War expert last night if The Iron Curtain was the name of the fence along the border between the Eastern Bloc countries and Western Europe. Or was it a metaphor.
He looked at me like I was a bit dim and told me that it was a metaphor. That's good enough for me.
Yes, there was a fence and border defences. Yes, a lot of people thought of this as "The Iron Curtain".
But "The Iron Curtain" is a metaphor for a lot more than the fence. And the metaphor preceded the fence and the border defences.
The term "Bamboo Curtain" was used as a similar metaphor for the way in which Communist China closed itself off from the outside world, in terms of ideology and communications and control of information (state propaganda) and movement of people and border defences.
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(https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/pAjgj-wWppYUgwCf5t4G1q1YXwI=/553x708/filters:no_upscale()/against-immigration-leaving-56a7549d3df78cf77294af8d.jpg)
This is something I never really understood. Using what happened to indigenous peoples in places like North America and Australia (genocide, erasure of their culture to a large degree, disease, loss of territory, becoming an underclass) as an argument in favour of immigration.
I'm not anti-immigration. If I was anti-immigration I'd be reminding people of what happened to indigenous peoples and saying "do you want this to happen to us?".
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I asked my Cold War expert last night if The Iron Curtain was the name of the fence along the border between the Eastern Bloc countries and Western Europe. Or was it a metaphor.
He looked at me like I was a bit dim and told me that it was a metaphor. That's good enough for me.
Yes, there was a fence and border defences. Yes, a lot of people thought of this as "The Iron Curtain".
But "The Iron Curtain" is a metaphor for a lot more than the fence. And the metaphor preceded the fence and the border defences.
The term "Bamboo Curtain" was used as a similar metaphor for the way in which Communist China closed itself off from the outside world, in terms of ideology and communications and control of information (state propaganda) and movement of people and border defences.
Yeah it's a metaphor. There was some iron involved though.
To me the iron wasn't the most impressive. The wide open strip, making every fugitive a very clear target was.
That combined with heavily armed border control by military and German shepherds, on the way back home.
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I asked my Cold War expert last night if The Iron Curtain was the name of the fence along the border between the Eastern Bloc countries and Western Europe. Or was it a metaphor.
He looked at me like I was a bit dim and told me that it was a metaphor. That's good enough for me.
Yes, there was a fence and border defences. Yes, a lot of people thought of this as "The Iron Curtain".
But "The Iron Curtain" is a metaphor for a lot more than the fence. And the metaphor preceded the fence and the border defences.
The term "Bamboo Curtain" was used as a similar metaphor for the way in which Communist China closed itself off from the outside world, in terms of ideology and communications and control of information (state propaganda) and movement of people and border defences.
Here's the thing: Scrap is a bit dim. You need to be more clear.
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Why build a wall?
Just dig a deep, wide ditch from the Pacific Ocean to the Gulf of Mexico. Fill it with legal Brazilian pirhana. We solve the illegal immigration problem and claim that we support legal immigration.
Bonus - we help with climate change by the exchange of Pacific and Gulf water.
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I asked my Cold War expert last night if The Iron Curtain was the name of the fence along the border between the Eastern Bloc countries and Western Europe. Or was it a metaphor.
He looked at me like I was a bit dim and told me that it was a metaphor. That's good enough for me.
Yes, there was a fence and border defences. Yes, a lot of people thought of this as "The Iron Curtain".
But "The Iron Curtain" is a metaphor for a lot more than the fence. And the metaphor preceded the fence and the border defences.
The term "Bamboo Curtain" was used as a similar metaphor for the way in which Communist China closed itself off from the outside world, in terms of ideology and communications and control of information (state propaganda) and movement of people and border defences.
Yeah it's a metaphor. There was some iron involved though.
To me the iron wasn't the most impressive. The wide open strip, making every fugitive a very clear target was.
That combined with heavily armed border control by military and German shepherds, on the way back home.
I'm betting that most of the people who're old enough to remember it will not be confused about what it was.
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There was barbed wire too.
In those areas where the fence was barbed wire, the general population was usually much further back because the barbed wire was easier to get through.
The watchtowers, with guards ready to shoot, did a lot.
But then, they shot at their own citizens. That is a legal difference, I guess. :P
It's even more justifiable to shoot citizens of another country since they are at bare minimum, criminal trespassers.
BTW, I'm noticing the irony of this emoticon right now. :odeon:
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I asked my Cold War expert last night if The Iron Curtain was the name of the fence along the border between the Eastern Bloc countries and Western Europe. Or was it a metaphor.
He looked at me like I was a bit dim and told me that it was a metaphor. That's good enough for me.
Had this "expert" been to the Iron Curtain like I have??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Curtain#As_a_physical_entity
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(http://solidario.me/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/outstanding-iron-curtain-speech-analysis-by-2-c-resize-2-c-delightful-vision-churchill-iron-curtain-speech-analysis.jpg)
He wasn't talking about a fence.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Iron_curtain
The term "Iron Curtain" was used to describe the isolation of Eastern countries from Western Europe. It also applied only to the fortified borders in central Europe; it was never used for similar borders in Asia between communist and capitalist states. The border between North Korea and South Korea is very comparable to the former inner German border, particularly in its degree of militarization, but it has never conventionally been considered part of the Iron Curtain.
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Iron Curtain, the political, military, and ideological barrier erected by the Soviet Union after World War II to seal off itself and its dependent eastern and central European allies from open contact with the West and other noncommunist areas. The term Iron Curtain had been in occasional and varied use as a metaphor since the 19th century, but it came to prominence only after it was used by the former British prime minister Winston Churchill in a speech at Fulton, Missouri, U.S., on March 5, 1946, when he said of the communist states, “From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic, an iron curtain has descended across the Continent.”
The restrictions and the rigidity of the Iron Curtain were somewhat reduced in the years following Joseph Stalin’s death in 1953, although the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1961 restored them. During the Cold War the Iron Curtain extended to the airwaves. The attempts by the Central Intelligence Agency-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE) to provide listeners behind the Curtain with uncensored news were met with efforts by communist governments to jam RFE’s signal. The Iron Curtain largely ceased to exist in 1989–90 with the communists’ abandonment of one-party rule in eastern Europe.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Iron-Curtain
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Britannica pretty much sums up what I think of as "The Iron Curtain". Other takes on the term do exist, but my head is wedged firmly up my arse on this one and I'm sticking with the "Iron Curtain as a metaphor" idea.
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https://thecoldwarexperience.weebly.com/the-iron-curtain.html
The Iron Curtain is the name for the "barrier" that separated the communist and non-communist territories. This "barrier" was not a physical wall or barrier but, just a means of separation and isolation. It was "set" by the Soviet Union after World War II to separate itself and its dependent Eastern and Central European allies from any contact in the west and any other non-communist areas. The "barrier" was recognized as the Iron Curtain by Winston Churchill in a speech at Fulton, Missouri on March 5th 1946.
I guess (like my son) they never went to the Iron Curtain either.
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This is still going on?
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(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFb2PDtP31El-dePa-YkuGEVQpja5un7e2CuXTeVIKyrS6CG16jg)
^ Me
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(http://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/iron_curtain.jpg)
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(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8800536832/h85B5EE99/)
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Watched Trump's speech last night. His speech writers tried their best to make him sound presidential but it sounded to me like Mr Art of the Deal was backed into a corner, faking it.
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Watched Trump's speech last night. His speech writers tried their best to make him sound presidential but it sounded to me like Mr Art of the Deal was backed into a corner, faking it.
It sure does to people that are hyperpartisan.
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I'm sure you bought all of it, Al. It's kind of sweet.
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I wonder how much Adderall he had to snort before this speech?
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I'm sure you bought all of it, Al. It's kind of sweet.
Bought what exactly?
Trump believes that illegal immigrants pose a real threat and he wants a border. This is nothing overly contentious. Pretending there is more to it than that is fucking stupid.
He campaign on that because he thinks it is important.
You may not agree with his stance. You may think that there is no that or that borders dont prevent illegal immigrants moving across unimpeded.
But there is nothing contentious to "buy".
It would be fucking idiotic to suggest otherwise
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Trump's Wall is nothing more than a big fat dogwhistle. Like Australia's offshore detention.
Trump is trying to appeal to his base of stupid voters by making a big gesture showing how he is protecting them from the scary foreigners.
The GOP's real support base, of course, is billionaires and big corporations. And they LOVE immigration. What Trump (like Dutton, Abbott and co in Australia) is doing is serving the billionaires and big corporations as he must, while making the precariat believe that he is taking care of their interests.
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I'm sure you bought all of it, Al. It's kind of sweet.
Bought what exactly?
Trump believes that illegal immigrants pose a real threat and he wants a border. This is nothing overly contentious. Pretending there is more to it than that is fucking stupid.
He campaign on that because he thinks it is important.
You may not agree with his stance. You may think that there is no that or that borders dont prevent illegal immigrants moving across unimpeded.
But there is nothing contentious to "buy".
It would be fucking idiotic to suggest otherwise
It's OK, Al. You're allowed to have an opinion, however moronic that opinion is.
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I'm sure you bought all of it, Al. It's kind of sweet.
Bought what exactly?
Trump believes that illegal immigrants pose a real threat and he wants a border. This is nothing overly contentious. Pretending there is more to it than that is fucking stupid.
He campaign on that because he thinks it is important.
You may not agree with his stance. You may think that there is no that or that borders dont prevent illegal immigrants moving across unimpeded.
But there is nothing contentious to "buy".
It would be fucking idiotic to suggest otherwise
It's OK, Al. You're allowed to have an opinion, however moronic that opinion is.
I did not need your permission
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I'm sure you bought all of it, Al. It's kind of sweet.
Bought what exactly?
Trump believes that illegal immigrants pose a real threat and he wants a border. This is nothing overly contentious. Pretending there is more to it than that is fucking stupid.
He campaign on that because he thinks it is important.
You may not agree with his stance. You may think that there is no that or that borders dont prevent illegal immigrants moving across unimpeded.
But there is nothing contentious to "buy".
It would be fucking idiotic to suggest otherwise
It's OK, Al. You're allowed to have an opinion, however moronic that opinion is.
I did not need your permission
That's right. You're allowed to be a moron without any special permission. :)
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I’d like a bacon ultimate cheeseburger.
I'll take an order of fish and chips.
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I'm sure you bought all of it, Al. It's kind of sweet.
Bought what exactly?
Trump believes that illegal immigrants pose a real threat and he wants a border. This is nothing overly contentious. Pretending there is more to it than that is fucking stupid.
He campaign on that because he thinks it is important.
You may not agree with his stance. You may think that there is no that or that borders dont prevent illegal immigrants moving across unimpeded.
But there is nothing contentious to "buy".
It would be fucking idiotic to suggest otherwise
It's OK, Al. You're allowed to have an opinion, however moronic that opinion is.
::)
More lack of self-awareness, you're the one with the moronic opinion here.
You've swallowed the open borders propaganda being pushed by the corporate globalist elitists.
Trump's position isn't significantly different from Caesar Chavez over 60 years ago. He understood that illegal immigration was being used as a tool to oppress Mexican Americans.
You obviously don't see a problem with dark skinned people being used as pawns in political dirty pool.
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:LMAO:
Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
Al will be pleased to know he isn't alone.
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:LMAO:
Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
Al will be pleased to know he isn't alone.
I was never alone. It would be fucking stupid to pretend otherwise
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:LMAO:
Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
Al will be pleased to know he isn't alone.
I was never alone. It would be fucking stupid to pretend otherwise
So, is it a club of morons? Do you have, like, a secret handshake?
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/3b/db/1a3bdbabbe440d91d66b8b3b8a12d1ea.png)
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Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
:facepalm2:
This doesn't have a single fucking thing to do with Trump you intellectually dishonest fuckwit!
If Caesar Chavez were alive today, he would be the biggest advocate of border security in the US, and rightfully so.
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:LMAO:
Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
Al will be pleased to know he isn't alone.
I was never alone. It would be fucking stupid to pretend otherwise
So, is it a club of morons? Do you have, like, a secret handshake?
No idea but as you are a card carrying moron yourself, you are well placed to answer this
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:LMAO:
Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
Al will be pleased to know he isn't alone.
I think that is a lie and likely propagated by people zealously ideogically opposed to him.
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Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
:facepalm2:
This doesn't have a single fucking thing to do with Trump you intellectually dishonest fuckwit!
If Caesar Chavez were alive today, he would be the biggest advocate of border security in the US, and rightfully so.
Trump lying has nothing to do with Trump? Right.
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:LMAO:
Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
Al will be pleased to know he isn't alone.
I think that is a lie and likely propagated by people zealously ideogically opposed to him.
Ideogically? This is according to your ogic, I take it?
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Who's swallowed the propaganda here? Recent estimates show Trump averaged one lie per 30 seconds when addressing the nation re his "humanitarian crisis".
:facepalm2:
This doesn't have a single fucking thing to do with Trump you intellectually dishonest fuckwit!
If Caesar Chavez were alive today, he would be the biggest advocate of border security in the US, and rightfully so.
Yes. But he would also be addressing the fact that, while you're all fighting over a silly wall that may or may not have a limited impact on illegal immigration, you also have the highest levels of legal immigration in the history of your country. The number of legal immigrants dwarfs the number of illegal immigrants.
I suspect that he would be clever enough to see the wall for what it is. A distraction.
But hey, don't you worry about any of that The orange guy wants to build a wall.
In Straya we've been through the same thing with "stop the boats" and "offshore detention". Basically if you get on a boat and try to enter the country illegally, we will stick you in a concentration camp in someone else's country indefinitely. In the meantime real wages are falling while there are more and more billionaires every year, because massive levels of legal immigration, along with neoliberalism and the offshoring of jobs, have depressed wages.
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...and he caved. :zoinks:
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...and he caved. :zoinks:
Caved.....by announcing a National Emergency where he will have access to all the wall funding he wants. Such as cave.
You are an idiot Odeon
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He's abusing his power, and he pretty much admitted it on camera. He invented the "emergency".
Mr Art of the Deal looks more like his boss every day.
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He's abusing his power, and he pretty much admitted it on camera. He invented the "emergency".
Mr Art of the Deal looks more like his boss every day.
Abusing his power? So you are saying that he has not the Constitutional authority or are you saying it is completely in his Constitutional right but you just don't like it? (In answering this I can show the Constitutional authority)
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The authority has been established and challenged several times. He knows what to expect from historic record.
The biggest spin will be that he has "made up or invented" this particular national emergency for his own purposes.
IN my mind, having twelve to twenty thousand immigrants (depending upon whose reports you choose to believe) trying to get into my country by any means possible sounds a bit like an emergency with which we need to immediately address.
Applying the laws that be, as President Trump tried at first (many of which go back to the Reagan administration and onward, only becoming more complicated as time went on, but never allowing for something like what is going on now) was met with huge opposition. So those laws do not work for this case. They need to change. Now!
Trust me, I am not the penultimate Trump fan (I saw my taxes go considerably lower this year - we are in the one hundred twenty K dollar family bracket and paid a net twelve percent income tax - down from fifteen percent last year - this is huge to me and a positive result - my investments tied to the market gained twenty four percent this year alone - I know, do not get used to that amount of gain.) but there are a few positives like my kids do not have to pay a fine for not having their own health care plan.
This president worries me.
Use the standard worldwide opinion of our country to inform these lost people wanting to shove their way past our unprotected borders and tell them that this is the worst country in the world and there is no reason to be here. Trust the rest of the world opinion. This is the worst country on the planet. You are better off elsewhere!
Whatever, people.
Enter by the rule of law or be arrested and deported. I am one of those guys. Just enter this country legally, follow the law to become properly American within the law (say the words!!) and I will welcome you as a neighbor. It is a simple thing.
Now the problem is that we are not prepared to have twelve thousand or more people hit our border on Monday morning. Something has to be done to increase our preparedness for this continuing onslaught.
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
What makes my opinions that of a jackass?
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The fact that I would have to wade through dozens of pages of juvenile insults to even figure out what it is.
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors unlocked and had no fence that would be easy.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors unlocked and had a fence that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a fence and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and had a pet dog and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and had a guard dog and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and had a guard dog and an alarm system that would be a little harder.
Would ANY of these things completely stop any chance of me being able to break in if I was motivated enough?
Same principle. If it is easy for someone to walk across an unguarded border with no barrier, it is by contrast harder for that person to cross over where there is a barrier. It does not mean it will stop everyone or make that impossible but the motivation and the effort to do so is so much harder.
No one expects that the barrier will stop everyone so motivated and everyone willing to do anything to get past that barrier.
The fact that I would have to wade through dozens of pages of juvenile insults to even figure out what it is.
So did that take pages? It did not did it? That makes you a jackass for suggesting otherwise, doesn't it?
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Maybe we could have artists paint nude pictures on the Mexican side of the President with the tag, "Come on in. The water's fine." on the wall like a 2000 mile long Rockette'
I know I'd run like Hell the other way.
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He's abusing his power, and he pretty much admitted it on camera. He invented the "emergency".
Mr Art of the Deal looks more like his boss every day.
Abusing his power? So you are saying that he has not the Constitutional authority or are you saying it is completely in his Constitutional right but you just don't like it? (In answering this I can show the Constitutional authority)
I am saying that he invented the crisis to get funding for his vanity project. I would have thought you capable of figuring this out.
The whole idea of a president's national emergency powers is, well, an actual emergency. No such thing in this case. Trump knows this and said as much on camera.
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The biggest spin will be that he has "made up or invented" this particular national emergency for his own purposes.
It's not a spin. He admitted as much on camera. He didn't have to do this, he simply thought this would be quicker.
He's like a child throwing a tantrum after being told off by his parents.
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
What makes my opinions that of a jackass?
Your posts the last couple of years.
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors unlocked and had no fence that would be easy.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors unlocked and had a fence that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a fence and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and had a pet dog and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and had a guard dog and that would be a little harder.
If I wanted go uninvited into a house that I knew kept the doors locked and had a wall and had a guard dog and an alarm system that would be a little harder.
Would ANY of these things completely stop any chance of me being able to break in if I was motivated enough?
Same principle. If it is easy for someone to walk across an unguarded border with no barrier, it is by contrast harder for that person to cross over where there is a barrier. It does not mean it will stop everyone or make that impossible but the motivation and the effort to do so is so much harder.
No one expects that the barrier will stop everyone so motivated and everyone willing to do anything to get past that barrier.
The fact that I would have to wade through dozens of pages of juvenile insults to even figure out what it is.
So did that take pages? It did not did it? That makes you a jackass for suggesting otherwise, doesn't it?
Thank you for providing us with another example of why.
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(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/12/1258c3a51578edf7fa5e147b1414d8caba499cef0a431246b87369e14ad78d1d.jpg)
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(https://pics.me.me/ann-coulter-anncoulter-follow-no-the-goal-of-a-national-42414354.png)
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What else would you expect from a radical leftist like Ann Coulter.
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The biggest spin will be that he has "made up or invented" this particular national emergency for his own purposes.
It's not a spin. He admitted as much on camera. He didn't have to do this, he simply thought this would be quicker.
He's like a child throwing a tantrum after being told off by his parents.
No he did not HAVE to, the Left could have come to the party. How much are they giving to Israel and Syria to build up THEIR borders? $7 billion? Why give THEM a wall and not the US?
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He's abusing his power, and he pretty much admitted it on camera. He invented the "emergency".
Mr Art of the Deal looks more like his boss every day.
Abusing his power? So you are saying that he has not the Constitutional authority or are you saying it is completely in his Constitutional right but you just don't like it? (In answering this I can show the Constitutional authority)
I am saying that he invented the crisis to get funding for his vanity project. I would have thought you capable of figuring this out.
The whole idea of a president's national emergency powers is, well, an actual emergency. No such thing in this case. Trump knows this and said as much on camera.
He created this? How does he create 400 000 illegal immigrants coming across the border illegally? Please make sense.
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http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
Some interesting stats for the numerically literate amongst us.
There is no crisis. This is a massive dog whistle. A distraction. A divisive piece of symbolism.
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http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
Some interesting stats for the numerically literate amongst us.
There is no crisis. This is a massive dog whistle. A distraction. A divisive piece of symbolism.
What about the ones that never make it into the stats like these cases
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/human-smuggling-across-the-southern-border/
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
No, but a barrier patrolled on both sides is a damn good start. It is still up to people to protect and defend our borders.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
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The biggest spin will be that he has "made up or invented" this particular national emergency for his own purposes.
It's not a spin. He admitted as much on camera. He didn't have to do this, he simply thought this would be quicker.
He's like a child throwing a tantrum after being told off by his parents.
No. Of course, you are correct. I used the wrong word, kind of thinking about astronomy rather than media spin.
I would assume the this thing will end up like an out of balance top spinning out of control.
Wobble might have been a better word, but I fear that perturbation might actually describe this move even more aptly.
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http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
Some interesting stats for the numerically literate amongst us.
There is no crisis. This is a massive dog whistle. A distraction. A divisive piece of symbolism.
What about the ones that never make it into the stats like these cases
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/human-smuggling-across-the-southern-border/
While there are too many human rights violations to address in a short term, tHe urgency is more about (to most working, educated Americans) what to do to deal with this recent idea that a caravan of lost souls can just maybe get lucky and get across then set up housekeeping in secret and enter illegally, then be forgotten as so many have in the past.
I grew up seven miles from Mexico, near McAllen, Texas and I know illegals when I see them. I have looked the other way for fifty years and mostly the ones who are here legally, supporting old parents and grandparents work hard to keep their families together. Even to the point of having four or more generations living in a tiny shanty that I would not want to spend a week off, fishing in.
These people are just looking for work and when they find work they work hard, harder than any teen USA debutantes I have ever met.
In most ways people think that I know, the barricades will funnel trustworthy folk from southern wild and dangerous lands into a safe place to find a better life.
Honestly, just surviving is better than some of these people can look forward to finding from where they began their journeys.
The problem is that we were never expecting this massive amount of (I do not want to think of this as an invasion, even though it kind of IS) humans all needing access at the same time.
We were not prepared for these numbers. Even one tenth of who want to be admitted exceeds what we were prepared to deal with.
Most of us want these old school Americans to become residents of The USA, but it has to happen within the rule of law.
I have a multi-generational family living one block away. I rarely see the elders (They are illegal), but the youngers, about in their thirties and even children who attend local public schools, are all working and at least doing their best.
I offer them some of my garden bounty when I can. I used to see them every morning awaiting the school bus.
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The biggest spin will be that he has "made up or invented" this particular national emergency for his own purposes.
It's not a spin. He admitted as much on camera. He didn't have to do this, he simply thought this would be quicker.
He's like a child throwing a tantrum after being told off by his parents.
No he did not HAVE to, the Left could have come to the party. How much are they giving to Israel and Syria to build up THEIR borders? $7 billion? Why give THEM a wall and not the US?
Since he didn't HAVE TO, it's not a national emergency. And you're trying to shift the goalposts.
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He's abusing his power, and he pretty much admitted it on camera. He invented the "emergency".
Mr Art of the Deal looks more like his boss every day.
Abusing his power? So you are saying that he has not the Constitutional authority or are you saying it is completely in his Constitutional right but you just don't like it? (In answering this I can show the Constitutional authority)
I am saying that he invented the crisis to get funding for his vanity project. I would have thought you capable of figuring this out.
The whole idea of a president's national emergency powers is, well, an actual emergency. No such thing in this case. Trump knows this and said as much on camera.
He created this? How does he create 400 000 illegal immigrants coming across the border illegally? Please make sense.
There is no emergency. The numbers are the lowest in a decade. Do try to read up on the basics.
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http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/11/27/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-total-dips-to-lowest-level-in-a-decade/
Some interesting stats for the numerically literate amongst us.
There is no crisis. This is a massive dog whistle. A distraction. A divisive piece of symbolism.
What about the ones that never make it into the stats like these cases
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/human-smuggling-across-the-southern-border/
This is a human tragedy and a strawman argument, not a national emergency.
But let me show you what a national emergency looks like:
https://www.thetrace.org/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/13/us-gun-deaths-levels-cdc-2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html
Imagine what a president with actual values might be able to do, given the precedent set by the orange baby.
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
No, but a barrier patrolled on both sides is a damn good start. It is still up to people to protect and defend our borders.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
What do you think of expanding the quota for entry to accommodate more than a trickle of people trying to take the legal route? I guess it will never match the need so long as there is such a steep quality of life difference on each side of the border.
Al, I can see your point that the wall would slow people down. I don't think it's the best investment for the money, though, because the time and money it would take to complete such a project could be so much better spent improving the facilities and making the process more efficient for dealing with the people who have come through.
And I definitely don't support declaring a national emergency over it in an attempt to manipulate the political system.
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Is the national emergency an attempt to manipulate the political system, or an attempt to manipulate public opinion and public perception?
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Zombie deer will patrol the borders
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(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/2f/65/a3/2f65a3370802c502fd294c70deba8a7f--dance-parties-zombie-apocalypse.jpg)
(https://hardwoodshunter.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/zombie-buck.jpg?w=672&h=372&crop=1)
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
No, but a barrier patrolled on both sides is a damn good start. It is still up to people to protect and defend our borders.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
What do you think of expanding the quota for entry to accommodate more than a trickle of people trying to take the legal route? I guess it will never match the need so long as there is such a steep quality of life difference on each side of the border.
Al, I can see your point that the wall would slow people down. I don't think it's the best investment for the money, though, because the time and money it would take to complete such a project could be so much better spent improving the facilities and making the process more efficient for dealing with the people who have come through.
And I definitely don't support declaring a national emergency over it in an attempt to manipulate the political system.
That is the thing entirely. YOU do not think it is and i absolutely take you at your word that you do not believe that.
Many people agree with you and many people don't.
Politics is full of many complete differences of opinion.
That recognition that this is NOT a truth-based premise but a subjective concept. Then we ask who has the power to enforce their subjective belief?
The answer to this is that the President has this Constitutional authority to declare an emergency and in 1975, Congress effectively divested authority they had in limiting the Presidential powers around this.
It can be challenged and ruled in the Supreme Court but it is almost certain to have challenges struck down.
What then? If Congress did not want Presidents to Constitionally use their powers, they ought not have divested their power base in the first place. What Trump is doing is not wrong.
The Democrats agreed to $7 billion for foreign country's walls. It was NEVER about the money.
As for slowing down people, i think putting fetters on illegal immigration is a great thing.
A country should have some say in who joins their nation as a citizen and/or resident. No one has a right to another country.
That does't mean people can't visit or apply for residency or citizenship, but sneaking in is disrespectful
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Zombie deer will patrol the borders
Seen any?
Still waiting for one to attack someone here. :zoinks:
They just seem to be wandering out into traffic.
Sad.
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@DD only, because I don't give a shit about the rest of you jackasses.
Do you think the wall will actually stop them?
No, but a barrier patrolled on both sides is a damn good start. It is still up to people to protect and defend our borders.
:thumbup: :thumbup:
What do you think of expanding the quota for entry to accommodate more than a trickle of people trying to take the legal route? I guess it will never match the need so long as there is such a steep quality of life difference on each side of the border.
Al, I can see your point that the wall would slow people down. I don't think it's the best investment for the money, though, because the time and money it would take to complete such a project could be so much better spent improving the facilities and making the process more efficient for dealing with the people who have come through.
And I definitely don't support declaring a national emergency over it in an attempt to manipulate the political system.
You have just hit on the problem of our national emergency. It is not so much as a military problem as it is a humanitarian issue and Emergency.
Thankfully, Mexico is helping on their side as well as they can.
You also hit on the problem that we are set up for a trickle of people entering while we are now facing an onslaught of thousands. Many of these people do not travel with the resources to be held at the border for months while we uptick our capabilities in order to handle these thousands.
Maybe those of us sitting quietly enjoying our hot tubs and fancy meals do not feel that this is an emergency, but go around through the crowds of potential immigrants, watching their children cry for food and then decide whether or not they feel there is an emergency.
Anyone who does not see that there is no way in heaven or hell that Mexico can handle this humanitarian emergency, NOR should they have to foot the entire bill either, is simply an idiot, enjoying too much of their hot tubs and cocktails to the point that their brains have gone to sleep.
This is an emergency! Now whether a barrier or massive trucks full of blankets, hygienic supplies, water and food is needed first seems to be a debate that no one is even willing to pursue.
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I say that, since he declared this emergency, President Trump should go forward, saving the people first then try to figure out how to implement his border controls.
:soapbox:
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A country should have some say in who joins their nation as a citizen and/or resident. No one has a right to another country.
If this was true, the wall would be a non-issue.
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I say that, since he declared this emergency, President Trump should go forward, saving the people first then try to figure out how to implement his border controls.
:soapbox:
He's too busy taking potshots at the media on Twitter again this morning.
"The Enemy of the People" :hitler:
This whole administration is one big joke.
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A country should have some say in who joins their nation as a citizen and/or resident. No one has a right to another country.
If this was true, the wall would be a non-issue.
It is true and it is an issue. 0/2. Well done
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DD, yes it is a humanitarian emergency.
Think Trump cares?
Or is this, for Trump, an opportunity to stir up fear and to position himself as the protector against those scary people?
In Oz we don't build walls. We build offshore detention centres/concentration-camps. For effectively the same purpose. And we've been doing it for 20 years.
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DD, yes it is a humanitarian emergency.
Think Trump cares?
Or is this, for Trump, an opportunity to stir up fear and to position himself as the protector against those scary people?
In Oz we don't build walls. We build offshore detention centres/concentration-camps. For effectively the same purpose. And we've been doing it for 20 years.
I do not know.
He has already tried to use the laws that already exist and obviously those laws in place for two or three decades have never worked.
Even worse going with the current state of emergency.
I just want to see something done to feed these people.
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I do not know.
He has already tried to use the laws that already exist and obviously those laws in place for two or three decades have never worked.
Even worse going with the current state of emergency.
I just want to see something done to feed these people.
Yes. Very good points.
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But let me show you what a national emergency looks like:
https://www.thetrace.org/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/13/us-gun-deaths-levels-cdc-2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html
There is no emergency. The numbers are the lowest in decades. Do try to read up on the basics. :M
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What do you think of expanding the quota for entry to accommodate more than a trickle of people trying to take the legal route? I guess it will never match the need so long as there is such a steep quality of life difference on each side of the border.
The thing is, is that illegal immigration helps perpetuate that situation. It maintains a steady stream of money going south which is just enough to keep most Mexicans out of abject poverty. You cut off that stream of money and now political reform becomes necessary for Mexico to not implode like Venezuela is.
Anyways, the best source for the impact that mass immigration has had on the US (and Cali in particular) is Victor Davis Hanson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnDBjtFDcFQ
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A country should have some say in who joins their nation as a citizen and/or resident. No one has a right to another country.
If this was true, the wall would be a non-issue.
It is true and it is an issue. 0/2. Well done
There would be no USA, brainiac.
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But let me show you what a national emergency looks like:
https://www.thetrace.org/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/13/us-gun-deaths-levels-cdc-2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html
There is no emergency. The numbers are the lowest in decades. Do try to read up on the basics. :M
It's all relative. Compared to Trump's "emergency", this is an actual emergency. People are dying and very little is being done about it.
But by all means. Continue to hide your head in your arse. You're good at it.