INTENSITY²
Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: Pig on January 29, 2012, 09:52:14 PM
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I'll try another thread here.
What do you think about suicide? Do you like it, or just plain love it? Have you ever killed yourself before? If you haven't, how are you planning to?
:santa:
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My cousin committed suicide. He hung himself with an extension cord from a tree. On his mothers birthday, in her backyard. He is better off dead.
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my mom tried to kill herself back in like 2004. She ate a bottle of vicoden. She was in some weird dementia state for like a week, acting all weird in a mental hospital.
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Oh, and *blush* I tried to kill myself in 2007. OD. Woke up in ICU in restraints. Said I tried to fight them. I don''t remember shit but that doesnt sound like me. The nurses in ICU really hate it when people try to kill themselves. Cunts.
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My cousin committed suicide. He hung himself with an extension cord from a tree. On his mothers birthday, in her backyard. He is better off dead.
Very classy. :orly:
I thought about killing myself a few times because I felt utterly hopeless and useless. But I never attempted that.
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suicide is something i absolutly hate. i will willingly admit to feeling suicidal on a regular basis though simply because i am in despair and feel there is no hope left for me. kind of like right now but meh :/
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suicide is something i absolutly hate. i will willingly admit to feeling suicidal on a regular basis though simply because i am in despair and feel there is no hope left for me. kind of like right now but meh :/
Why do you hate suicide? What's the downside?
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I have a pretty strong survival drive; suicide doesn't have much appeal for me, even when I feel incredibly shitty.
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suicide is something i absolutly hate. i will willingly admit to feeling suicidal on a regular basis though simply because i am in despair and feel there is no hope left for me. kind of like right now but meh :/
Why do you hate suicide? What's the downside?
i hate it because it is a little selfish [well its selfish 90% of the time] it like any death ruins familys. in almost all cases there is a bloody mess to clean up... its just so fucking stupid.
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I hate when people think suicide is selfish. Like someone killed themselves just to ruin your day
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Of course it's selfish. You do it for yourself, right or wrong.
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yes it is something you do for yourself, but I dont think that makes it selfish. It does hurt your family, but i just dislike the attitude some people having as taking it as a personal insult. I have seen some people get angry at the person who did it, because now they have to "deal with it". People dont kill themselves to give others a hard time. Whatever they did it for, it was not to inconvenience others and im sure it was not an easy or light decision.
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I see nothing glamourous or exciting about suicide.
I see it as a desperate choice for scared and helpless people.
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yes it is something you do for yourself, but I dont think that makes it selfish. It does hurt your family, but i just dislike the attitude some people having as taking it as a personal insult. I have seen some people get angry at the person who did it, because now they have to "deal with it". People dont kill themselves to give others a hard time. Whatever they did it for, it was not to inconvenience others and im sure it was not an easy or light decision.
I see your point but I also think the people left behind have the right to their emotions. While the suicide most likely wasn't to piss them off, they still do have to deal with it. It's not easy, it's devastating.
There are no winners.
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There are no winners.
Except the person who died. They were relieved of their intolerable pain.
It can be seen as selfish for someone to end their own life, but it is also selfish to force someone to live who doesn't want to.
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There are no winners.
Except the person who died. They were relieved of their intolerable pain.
It can be seen as selfish for someone to end their own life, but it is also selfish to force someone to live who doesn't want to.
The person who committed suicide is just dead, whatever the reason. A dead person is never a winner.
And again, every reason to commit suicide is ultimately selfish. It's not something you do for someone else, you do it for you. Nothing glamorous, nothing noble about it either, just desperation and no other visible options.
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There are no winners.
Except the person who died. They were relieved of their intolerable pain.
It can be seen as selfish for someone to end their own life, but it is also selfish to force someone to live who doesn't want to.
The person who committed suicide is just dead, whatever the reason. A dead person is never a winner.
And again, every reason to commit suicide is ultimately selfish. It's not something you do for someone else, you do it for you. Nothing glamorous, nothing noble about it either, just desperation and no other visible options.
Why don't you think dead people are winners? If their goal was to die, and they succeeded, then they got what they wanted!
As to the selfishness - shouldn't a person be able to choose how to live (or end) their life? Why can't they throw it away if they wish? That should be a basic right.
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You're reading too much into "selfish". It's simply something you do for yourself. Whether or not it's something negative is a different matter.
As for dead people being winners, it's just not possible. They are dead, they are gone, they are no more. Easy.
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Everything we do is selfish, technically
But when people say it's selfish as in the person that did it is a terrible heartless peson, I think they're missing the point, which is that it is the ONLY way out that person can see (most of the time), and often is appears to be in the best interests of everyone (to them), inluding the people they love
It's not, obviously. And almost always leaves people absoliutely devastated, as odeon said. But I don't like the way so many people speak of someone who's killed themselves as if they just decided , screw everyone. It's not as simple as that
btw this isn't a respnse to you, odeon. just generally on the subject of suicide=selfish
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That's mostly grief talking when others say it, Adam.
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Like so many others on this site and in real life, I've considered suicide when I was younger. There was one time when I was so devastated that I couldn't muster the energy to commit suicide. Anyway,
the thought that the next day or week or year might bring a change in my situation,
the finality of suicide, and
the effect on my parents
kept me going. Now I can say that I made the better choice, life.
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To me it is something other people do. From the moment i understood what the word meant, i decided it wasn't ever going to happen to me.
It doesn't appear ever in my options because i have never ever put it there. My last resort usually is to get the fuck up and keep going.
I personally don't understand it. I wanna keep it that way too. The moment i understand such madness would probably mean i was considering it. I do think it's a person's 'right' though, and shouldn't be an unlawful matter.
I can't really ever see myself thinking 'yeah good one' or giving a thumbs up about it. Perhaps if someone was terminally ill, or in a horrific amount of pain.
I think these things are rarely 'out of the blue', as Adam said. They usually follow some sort of mental deterioration. Possibly depression. It is just sad, in those cases. Not something to celebrate. It's a fail. They failed to get help and they quit.
I love the klingon's
The Heghba' as I understand it:
When a Klingon can no longer stand and face his enemies, when he becomes a burden to his family and friends, it is time for him to die.
Surrounded by friends, family, and comrades, the ailing Klingon takes the ceremonial Heghba' dagger and plunges it deep into his own heart. A family member, preferably the eldest son who will assume leadership of the house, twists the blade counter-clockwise and pulls it from the body, wiping the blood on his sleeve. The Klingon death ritual follows.
This ritual "suicide" is the only acceptable way of taking one's own life. Only an ailing Klingon may perform the ceremony. This generally includes Klingons mortally wounded in battle but not killed. With the exception of suicide missions for the glory of the Empire, any other suicide is considered a dishonorable death and the Klingon can not cross the river of blood and enter Sto'vo'qor.
I know people sometimes think it is selfish, or cowardly. I don't. It's just a big fail. For me, better to go down fighting than to take an early exit.
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Personally no matter how shitty life can be somedays, I still love living.
Now, if I became terminally ill and I knew the quality of life I would be living would be almost non-existant and the results would impact my family horribly....financially & emotionally. Then it would be an option I would consider if I was still able to do so. But at that point I don't consider it "suicide", I consider having an "exit plan".
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Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.
If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement. By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.
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I can't imagine what kind of life that would be, to be in that state continually. Not saying it doesn't happen. Just that i can't get my head around it.
Long ago, man was 'happy' if he had shelter, a fire, and a simple meal - oh look how we have evolved!
If i am unhappy i seek things to improve my life, not end it.
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Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.
If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement. By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.
No, they *end* their emotional state.
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Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.
If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement. By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.
No, they *end* their emotional state.
Let's say emotions are like positive and negative values. Misery is negative, happiness is positive, and no-emotion is zero. Going from a negative value to zero is a positive.
I guess. ??? That's how I've always thought of it, anyway.
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...i was gonna say that odeon, lol.
Also, pig, there are no guarantee's that death will mean peace or happiness. You might just be spending an eternity sucking the cocks of leper's in hell. (oh ok might be a bonus for some)
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Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.
If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement. By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.
No, they *end* their emotional state.
Let's say emotions are like positive and negative values. Misery is negative, happiness is positive, and no-emotion is zero. Going from a negative value to zero is a positive.
I guess. ??? That's how I've always thought of it, anyway.
I don't buy that. Between good and bad emotions should be those that are neither good or bad, but that still are emotions.
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...i was gonna say that odeon, lol.
Also, pig, there are no guarantee's that death will mean peace or happiness. You might just be spending an eternity sucking the cocks of leper's in hell. (oh ok might be a bonus for some)
It's true we don't know what happens when we die, but I am 99.9% convinced we simply cease to exist as conscious minds. When we are dead we become decaying meat with no thoughts or feelings.
Think of it this way, we spent all of time not existing before we were born - why should it bother us thinking we will return to that state?*
*paraphrased from a quote I read somewhere
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Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.
If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement. By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.
No, they *end* their emotional state.
Let's say emotions are like positive and negative values. Misery is negative, happiness is positive, and no-emotion is zero. Going from a negative value to zero is a positive.
I guess. ??? That's how I've always thought of it, anyway.
I don't think of it that way. If your emotional state is negative then if you are alive there a several million different things in the world that could happen to make you happier.
Dead might mean zero to you, to me it means no possibility of improvement, which is a negative anyway, :dunno:
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I don't buy that. Between good and bad emotions should be those that are neither good or bad, but that still are emotions.
My analogy is not perfect, but I think "zero" represents nonexistence quite well.
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I agree with Bodie's take.
When I'm very depressed I just stop moving. Eventually it passes enough that I can start moving again and doing things by rote. After a while the rote habits build up enough momentum that I can start caring about things again. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
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tbh I kinda agree with Pig on that.
if you're feeling shit, then killing yourself doesn't improve things for you, but it means nothingness. Which woulld be a lack of pain
I'm not saying suicide is "the answer" btw. but for the person who does it, they are no longer in pain
the people who suffer are obviously the ones left. if you don't care about anyone else, then suicide has no negatives (unless you fuck it up)
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I don't think of it that way. If your emotional state is negative then if you are alive there a several million different things in the world that could happen to make you happier.
Dead might mean zero to you, to me it means no possibility of improvement, which is a negative anyway, :dunno:
It's true one's emotional state can improve with time, but it becomes a game of probability. If you have spent 10 years depressed, with no remedy helping, then it is fair to think it's improbable that you will improve.
Also, some may choose death over even one more moment of torture. Would you rather die immediately, or spend several years being mutilated by sadists?
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Dead might mean zero to you, to me it means no possibility of improvement, which is a negative anyway, :dunno:
I think this is where teh state of mind (of the person contemplating suicide) comes into it. If they have reached the point where they can't see any possibility of improvement anyway, then they lose nothing through death. Especially if they believe life can get worse. It can't get worse after death
therefore thru suicide, the possibility of improvement remains the same, while the possibility of increased pain disappears
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When I'm very depressed I just stop moving. Eventually it passes enough that I can start moving again and doing things by rote. After a while the rote habits build up enough momentum that I can start caring about things again. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
Some people are never granted respite from their suffering. And if someone is considering suicide, that is likely the case for them.
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Ok, let me be a little more clear. I support the right to commit suicide.
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I don't think of it that way. If your emotional state is negative then if you are alive there a several million different things in the world that could happen to make you happier.
Dead might mean zero to you, to me it means no possibility of improvement, which is a negative anyway, :dunno:
It's true one's emotional state can improve with time, but it becomes a game of probability. If you have spent 10 years depressed, with no remedy helping, then it is fair to think it's improbable that you will improve.
Also, some may choose death over even one more moment of torture. Would you rather die immediately, or spend several years being mutilated by sadists?
I think i would cling onto my life to the very end, in case superman showed up!
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When I'm very depressed I just stop moving. Eventually it passes enough that I can start moving again and doing things by rote. After a while the rote habits build up enough momentum that I can start caring about things again. It doesn't get any more complicated than that.
Some people are never granted respite from their suffering. And if someone is considering suicide, that is likely the case for them.
I don't agree with this. There are and have been way more people considering suicide who WILL/would have at least some relief from suffering eventually. Most people who contemplate suicide will at some point feel better about life. You can evevn see that here , by the number of members who've considered suicide in the past, but are glad they didnt go thru with it
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I don't think of it that way. If your emotional state is negative then if you are alive there a several million different things in the world that could happen to make you happier.
Dead might mean zero to you, to me it means no possibility of improvement, which is a negative anyway, :dunno:
It's true one's emotional state can improve with time, but it becomes a game of probability. If you have spent 10 years depressed, with no remedy helping, then it is fair to think it's improbable that you will improve.
Also, some may choose death over even one more moment of torture. Would you rather die immediately, or spend several years being mutilated by sadists?
I think i would cling onto my life to the very end, in case superman showed up!
I think I would too tbh. But to me, that's actually a scary though. I've read of so much suffering (mostly due to my interests - holocaust, ww2, soviet union), and often think about what I would do in certain situations. I think my "will to live" would always overrule everything, no matter how much pain I was in. And that scares me. Not being able to go through with it and end things. Having some kind of animal desire to live, against all odds. It's almost irrational, although it's biologically rational. if that makes sense
I think almost all people are like that ^
But then there are a minority who lack that. And those are the people who, when things get to that low point, will be most likely to resort to suicide. I remember a study they did on the brains of suicide victims a few years ago. They respond differently to pain (emotional pain). I can't remember the technicalities of it, but I',m sure there's plenty of info online
I don't know why some people lack that all-conquering "will to live", but they do. Right now, I'm relieved I dont, as I might have turned to suicide at one point myself, and it would have destroyed the people closest to me. But sometimes I do feel... scared... by it. The thought that I'm ruled by this fucking illogical need to live, even in the shittiest circumstances imaginable. All because I'm programmed to pass on my genes, which I'm destined never to pass on :laugh:
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I did say earlier i think it should be a 'right' to end it if you want. I don't have a problem with it.
I just don't see it as something to like or love, which is how you began this thread.
I also think adults should have the 'right' to do what they like with their bodies while they are alive. So long as they don't harm others. If i want to stuff myself full of drugs, i don't think i should be subject to prosecution - providing i don't give drugs to anyone else. Basically, if it's a question of 'rights' then yeah i agree. Just don't feel any connection with suicide myself.
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I don't feel a connection with it either. If no one cares about the person, then I guess it doesn't matter. But in most cases, there ARE people left behind. And the consequences are devastating. I've seen what suicide does to families and there's no way i'd ever like or love that
But I also think it should be anyone's right to take their own life whenever they see fit. which is why I support assisted suicide
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I tried to bite my tongue but here goes:
Being suicidal is not a concious decision nor is it a rational state of mind.
When you are suicidal it is like walls caving in on you , you cannot see a way out and that is what you seek, being trapped in depression of that extent is something I don't think anyone can fully understand unless you've been there yourself.
and no I don't mean "Baww lifes so bad , I want to die"
I mean , seeing life and seeing how utterly meaningless it is , viewing yourself as a complete and utter waste of life and fantasising about ending your life. Then actually acting (or attempting to) act on those urges.
I also think it's extremely unfair to lable suicide as "selfish" , it is out of desperation and a lot of times the view of the person who is suicidal is that they are doing their loved ones a favour.
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and a lot of times the view of the person who is suicidal is that they are doing their loved ones a favour.
This is one of the thigns that bothers me most when people talk about how selfish someone is for killing themselves
How many of them actually do it out of spite? Usually they genuinely believe their family is better off without them. that is the state of mind they are in. which is not their fault
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That is actually the best description i have read.
I understand a little better now Squid. :thumbup:
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It is not selfish. Or chicken. It is many things, i just don't see the 'love' for it.
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It is not selfish. Or chicken. It is many things, i just don't see the 'love' for it.
Choosing between life and death, that is a great power. I love that if I become too miserable I can simply exit. Or even if I'm just bored!
We're all going to die anyway, why stick around if you're not enjoying yourself?
:hyke:
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lol I see it that way too ^
Except for most of us, there's the family ties to think of, so we stick around regardless
When it comes down to it, we're all sat here suffering for each other :P
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BUT, if you read squids post, it implies it could be done without rational thought and therefore further implies that some successful attempts are mistakes.
You only have to turn a different corner, or have a chance meeting with someone and your life could change forever.
Not long ago, here in the UK, police found a whole family dead. The father had taken his own life, and decided to take his wife and his two little boys with him. He actually rammed a knife into his two year old son?
My only explanation for this is a sudden moment of madness. Not rationally able to control ones actions. Fucked up and nothing lovely about it either.
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lol I see it that way too ^
Except for most of us, there's the family ties to think of, so we stick around regardless
When it comes down to it, we're all sat here suffering for each other :P
Noooot meeeee!!!!!
Once I die I won't care about anything - including my loved ones! So I know as soon as I die, even that worry will be erased! Hooray!! :2thumbsup:
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Not long ago, here in the UK, police found a whole family dead. The father had taken his own life, and decided to take his wife and his two little boys with him. He actually rammed a knife into his two year old son?
My only explanation for this is a sudden moment of madness. Not rationally able to control ones actions. Fucked up and nothing lovely about it either.
I think one of the single cruelest things someone can do is bring a child into this world. What you described above seems compassionate by comparison.
Just my opinion anyway.
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I think one of the single cruelest things someone can do is bring a child into this world.
Maybe, but once it's done, the rules change and it's no longer compassionate to take it back.
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BUT, if you read squids post, it implies it could be done without rational thought and therefore further implies that some successful attempts are mistakes.
You only have to turn a different corner, or have a chance meeting with someone and your life could change forever.
This is true, but no longer matters when you no longer exist. it's like a baby that was never born... he could have been a serial killer, or he could have invented some shit-awesome thing. Once you're gone, none of those possibilites exist anymore. And you're not around to regret not meeting that someone who could have changed your life.
lol I see it that way too ^
Except for most of us, there's the family ties to think of, so we stick around regardless
When it comes down to it, we're all sat here suffering for each other :P
Noooot meeeee!!!!!
Once I die I won't care about anything - including my loved ones! So I know as soon as I die, even that worry will be erased! Hooray!! :2thumbsup:
For YOU, you won't have those worries anymore. But before you do it, you know that others will have that pain. Most people believe that even once they are gone, life still carries on for everyone else. If I killed myself tonight, I would cease to exist and no longer have any worries. But right now I know that, while I wouldn't be worrying anymore, my mum would still be here and she'd be in a lot of pain
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I think one of the single cruelest things someone can do is bring a child into this world.
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Technically, I agree. It's definitely one of the most selfish anyway. If you choose to get pregnant
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Humans are genetically programmed to reproduce and further their species.
Animals are too, in fact they tend to mate when there is only a real chance of becoming pregnant.
Anyway, i don't think the father who butchered his family really was thinking in a compassionate way.
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Humans are genetically programmed to reproduce and further their species.
Animals are too, in fact they tend to mate when there is only a real chance of becoming pregnant.
that's why we're selfish. Everything we do is ultimately to carry on our genes. It's not our fault though lol
Anyway, i don't think the father who butchered his family really was thinking in a compassionate way.
Me neither. I would never condone murdering a child
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Some people get really really depressed about NOT being able to have a child.
:dunno:
I don't really care that it is selfish to have children. It is. That does not mean you own them and they have to exit when you do. The 'rights' of an individual to die i can support. I could never support someone extending that right to others.
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some people really do take others suicide attempts personally
When I said the nurses in ICU hate people that try to commit suicide, I mean it. They look at it like this. They work with people all day fighting for their life. When they see someone trying to kill themselves, they think it is a slap in the face to all the people that are there for other serious illnesses.
That is fucked, I think.
I mean they were all mean to me. Very cross, did not care if i needed something. A few called me selfish. Someone brought me flowers and they threw them in the trash.
that is not a way to treat someone who is so depressed they want to die.
I think thinking suicide is selfish is selfish. Cant see past your own nose. Cant see past your own perspective.
No one kills themselves to piss other people off.
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some people really do take others suicide attempts personally
When I said the nurses in ICU hate people that try to commit suicide, I mean it. They look at it like this. They work with people all day fighting for their life. When they see someone trying to kill themselves, they think it is a slap in the face to all the people that are there for other serious illnesses.
That is fucked, I think.
I mean they were all mean to me. Very cross, did not care if i needed something. A few called me selfish. Someone brought me flowers and they threw them in the trash.
that is not a way to treat someone who is so depressed they want to die.
I think thinking suicide is selfish is selfish. Cant see past your own nose. Cant see past your own perspective.
No one kills themselves to piss other people off.
Ouch. Those nurses really are cunts. :grrr:
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some people really do take others suicide attempts personally
When I said the nurses in ICU hate people that try to commit suicide, I mean it. They look at it like this. They work with people all day fighting for their life. When they see someone trying to kill themselves, they think it is a slap in the face to all the people that are there for other serious illnesses.
That is fucked, I think.
I mean they were all mean to me. Very cross, did not care if i needed something. A few called me selfish. Someone brought me flowers and they threw them in the trash.
that is not a way to treat someone who is so depressed they want to die.
I think thinking suicide is selfish is selfish. Cant see past your own nose. Cant see past your own perspective.
No one kills themselves to piss other people off.
i agree. Nurses are bitches.
and i also agree no one kills themself to upset other people. but it often does. it IS a selfish act, but that is not to say it is not without its reason. it is neither good nor bad in my opinion. there are times where it acceptable. example being if someone is in great pain with a disease that is lethal to them. i would accept it. if someone is dealing with great depression i would frown apon it assuming they have not tryed to get help (if they had and still want to its another story). i have delt with my fare share of sadness and depression and i fought to get myself help no matter how hard it may have been i pushed to get help. i HAVE been suicidal before. i have spent three or four hours sitting in my room with a knife to my neck and no one even knew.
i didnt do it. simply because of my family. if i had no one i felt i needed to keep safe, and love. like my mother my sister. than i would have without a doubt cut my neck after five or ten seconds that day. but the only thing that saved me was there face flashing through my head and the constant thought in the back of my mind of "what would they do if i killed myself" i decided it was better not to see as the logical part of me figured no matter how bad i felt at that time and no matter how much i wanted to die that they would feel ten times worse were i to do it.
what im trying to say is realising it is a selfish act is what saved me.
EDIT: corrected something
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there are times where it acceptable. example being if someone is in great pain with a disease that is lethal to them. i would accept it. if someone is dealing with great depression i would frown apon it assuming they have not tryed to get help (if they had and still want to its another story).
Okay, I was more thinking of suicide as the result from a lifetime of incurable misery.
Looking at it from that perspective, suicide is a remedy to sadness.
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I have tried it a number of times. I was just thinking of escaping my own life, not doing it to spite others. I always did worry about the mess I would leave behind though. I don't want to leave a mess for others to clean up.
One time I ended up in hospital and the nurses were not too nice to me. Made me strip naked to do an ECG and I know that wasn't necessary. To strip naked that is. I felt humiliated. Then I had to drink charcoal and I won't forget the taste of that in a hurry. Very messy stuff it is too. While I slept that night, the nurses kept waking me up on purpose. Not nicely either.
Another time I took 100 haloperidol and that didn't work, I just got cramps all over.
Another time I took heaps of Epilim and just threw up. Then I walked to hospital and they were ok to me there. They took me seriously when I said I wanted to cease to exist. To just vaporise and leave nothing behind.
You have a different sort of thinking when you are suicidal, I think. You still love your family and friends (in most cases?) but the pain of being around sort of overrides that and you just want to be gone.
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Made me strip naked to do an ECG and I know that wasn't necessary.
is that even legal?
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Let's see... you try to commit suicide, fail, end up in a hospital and expect nurses to respect and support your decision while trying to save your sorry arse, instead of spending that time with somebody who actually wants to live? They see people die every day. Until you've been in their shoes you can't see why they might object.
If you can't see their situation, why should they attempt to see yours? Because they work in a hospital?
I understand why some of them are angry and I fully support their right to react.
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Until you've been in their shoes you can't see
This is exactly what I mean.
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Let's see... you try to commit suicide, fail, end up in a hospital and expect nurses to respect and support your decision while trying to save your sorry arse, instead of spending that time with somebody who actually wants to live? They see people die every day. Until you've been in their shoes you can't see why they might object.
If you can't see their situation, why should they attempt to see yours? Because they work in a hospital?
I understand why some of them are angry and I fully support their right to react.
I guess I expect nurses to behave professionally and show compassion even though they are taking care of someone whose illness has made them believe that they and everyone they care about would be better off if they were dead.
To make renaeden strip naked so they can attach electrodes to her chest to do an ECG seems unnecessarily spiteful to me. I have had an ECG myself before and they were able to reach under my hospital gown to do it.
I also thought that it was spiteful for nurses to throw away the flowers a friend brought for Eris until I thought that maybe they could have been concerned that she could have eaten them if she still wanted to die, since some flowers and leaves can be toxic if consumed.
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I do think the way eris was treated is disgusting
They should NOT have the right to react that way, and should keep their opinions to themselves if that is how they feel
and I've had an ECG but didn't need to take any clothes off. I just wore the clothes I went in wearing
If I'd been asked to take off any clothes then I would have refused
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I think that nurses should act professional.
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I remember a part in Marilyn Manson's autobiography he wrote that after he had a drug overdose some paramedics/doctors refused him medical attention at first, because they had such a strong distaste for him as a person. :LOL:
Kind of makes you wonder how often things like that happen...
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Let's see... you try to commit suicide, fail, end up in a hospital and expect nurses to respect and support your decision while trying to save your sorry arse, instead of spending that time with somebody who actually wants to live? They see people die every day. Until you've been in their shoes you can't see why they might object.
If you can't see their situation, why should they attempt to see yours? Because they work in a hospital?
I understand why some of them are angry and I fully support their right to react.
just because your suicidal does not mean you WANT to die, necisaraly. i have been though many times when i felt like killing myself simply because it was the only way out of my situation. but just because you feel like killing yourself or you attempt to kill yourself does not mean you WANT to kill yourself. though it may seem that way to others often it simply means that you just see no other way out of it and/or feel others/the world would be better off without you.
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people who are gonna treat patients like that should not be in the job in the first place
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people who are gonna treat patients like that should not be in the job in the first place
agreed.
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I believe the nurses wanted me to feel bad for doing what I did. And I did. But I was mentally ill and not thinking rationally. Even though I wanted to die, a part of me wanted help too. But not that kind of help that wasn't help, really.
I have had an ECG since for other heart related stuff and was treated with courtesy and respect. I was able to keep my shirt on too.
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Let's see... you try to commit suicide, fail, end up in a hospital and expect nurses to respect and support your decision while trying to save your sorry arse, instead of spending that time with somebody who actually wants to live? They see people die every day. Until you've been in their shoes you can't see why they might object.
If you can't see their situation, why should they attempt to see yours? Because they work in a hospital?
I understand why some of them are angry and I fully support their right to react.
I guess I expect nurses to behave professionally and show compassion even though they are taking care of someone whose illness has made them believe that they and everyone they care about would be better off if they were dead.
To make renaeden strip naked so they can attach electrodes to her chest to do an ECG seems unnecessarily spiteful to me. I have had an ECG myself before and they were able to reach under my hospital gown to do it.
I also thought that it was spiteful for nurses to throw away the flowers a friend brought for Eris until I thought that maybe they could have been concerned that she could have eaten them if she still wanted to die, since some flowers and leaves can be toxic if consumed.
I agree that it was spiteful and wrong--I don't defend their actions, I defend their right to be angry.
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I think that nurses should act professional.
Yes, I think so too, and I guess I wasn't clear about what I meant with my comment. Apologies to you and ren, and others.
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I remember a part in Marilyn Manson's autobiography he wrote that after he had a drug overdose some paramedics/doctors refused him medical attention at first, because they had such a strong distaste for him as a person. :LOL:
Kind of makes you wonder how often things like that happen...
Probably not that often.
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Let's see... you try to commit suicide, fail, end up in a hospital and expect nurses to respect and support your decision while trying to save your sorry arse, instead of spending that time with somebody who actually wants to live? They see people die every day. Until you've been in their shoes you can't see why they might object.
If you can't see their situation, why should they attempt to see yours? Because they work in a hospital?
I understand why some of them are angry and I fully support their right to react.
just because your suicidal does not mean you WANT to die, necisaraly. i have been though many times when i felt like killing myself simply because it was the only way out of my situation. but just because you feel like killing yourself or you attempt to kill yourself does not mean you WANT to kill yourself. though it may seem that way to others often it simply means that you just see no other way out of it and/or feel others/the world would be better off without you.
What the medics see, though, is yet another person near death. I can't even imagine how stressful that is. Add to it that they are overworked but still need to act professionally, and I think a reaction is almost inevitable.
An attempted suicide is an act of desperation, yes, and the person should get help. But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this? There just aren't enough resources and some will not get the help they need as a result.
I'm not blaming anyone, I'm not taking sides, and I'm certainly not judging, but I think there is something missing here. Plenty of people want to live but do not get the medical attention in time and they die as a result. This has happened to people I know, and it's talked about in the media regularly around here.
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people who are gonna treat patients like that should not be in the job in the first place
I doubt they do it all the time. I think it's a reaction.
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I remember a part in Marilyn Manson's autobiography he wrote that after he had a drug overdose some paramedics/doctors refused him medical attention at first, because they had such a strong distaste for him as a person. :LOL:
Kind of makes you wonder how often things like that happen...
I read about a case where the ER doctor had only a limited understanding of Spanish and a suicidal woman who spoke only Spanish came into his ER talking about pills. After securing what he thought was her promise not to kill herself, he sent her home. Only after she died and her death was investigated did he learn that what she actually said to him was that she had already taken what turned out to be a fatal dose of pills and was seeking help for that.
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Let's see... you try to commit suicide, fail, end up in a hospital and expect nurses to respect and support your decision while trying to save your sorry arse, instead of spending that time with somebody who actually wants to live? They see people die every day. Until you've been in their shoes you can't see why they might object.
If you can't see their situation, why should they attempt to see yours? Because they work in a hospital?
I understand why some of them are angry and I fully support their right to react.
just because your suicidal does not mean you WANT to die, necisaraly. i have been though many times when i felt like killing myself simply because it was the only way out of my situation. but just because you feel like killing yourself or you attempt to kill yourself does not mean you WANT to kill yourself. though it may seem that way to others often it simply means that you just see no other way out of it and/or feel others/the world would be better off without you.
What the medics see, though, is yet another person near death. I can't even imagine how stressful that is. Add to it that they are overworked but still need to act professionally, and I think a reaction is almost inevitable.
An attempted suicide is an act of desperation, yes, and the person should get help. But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this? There just aren't enough resources and some will not get the help they need as a result.
I'm not blaming anyone, I'm not taking sides, and I'm certainly not judging, but I think there is something missing here. Plenty of people want to live but do not get the medical attention in time and they die as a result. This has happened to people I know, and it's talked about in the media regularly around here.
sorry, i think i misunderstood what you ment. i thought you were implying that all suicide was something that everyone who attempts or thinks of attempting WANTs to do, rather than something they feel they should do.
i think i get what you are saying. and i agree with it [if i get your opinion right.]
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There is a nursing problem here! don't know about other parts of the world.
A lot of our newly qualified nurses often go to work abroad or for the private hospitals. Which is crazy as our wards seem to have a large number of agency nurses and people drafted in from abroad.
The problem with the agency staff is that they are placed anywhere. Not necessarily in the field they want to be in. I found this true when my Dad was in hospital. You could see on their faces they did not want to be with the elderly. A lot of them did complete the required minimum care, as in administering medicine, keeping patients clean and fed, but with such an attitude. Some didn't even do that, and they were not fit to be in the job. A small number did their tasks well, and showed much respect and care to the patients. They were chatty and cheerful. It is this element that makes the difference. It is not just about the daily tasks, the fact that they were friendly actually made the world of difference to the elderly people on that ward.
I would say a 'good' nurse is priceless! I think they can make a huge difference to a patients outcome.
I think all people in hospital deserve to be cared for in such a caring way. In particular, where mental health is an issue. The stories i have read from eris and ren are appalling. Yes in some ways i sympathise with nurses in general as i think they are under paid and under valued but if they can't give that added bit of 'empathy' then they should at least be professional. Not subjecting patients to humiliation. That is something to complain about and warrants disciplinary action. Totally unacceptable. I would complain at the highest level.
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I have just read what odeon said. He makes a good point
But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this?
It must be very hard when you are expected to respect others 'right to commit suicide' and then also 'help' those who want it/ need it. I mean how the hell are you supposed to KNOW. Ok someone taking a load of pills and then turning up in A&E saying 'I'v just done the lot' with an empty bottle in their hands - yeah pretty obvious they are wanting HELP. But what about other scenarios that may not be all that clear. Maybe they were found already unconscious or something. How many times will the staff on these wards faced a right load of abuse because they did SAVE someone. Do they SAVE people two or three times, or what? I think it is perhaps an area that is highly skilled but maybe it is not recognised. It must be soul destroying to work with someone and give them your best care only to see them again in a few months. Perhaps staff should be trained to a higher level, i don't know. I still think that what ren and eris went through falls way under the mark and is a serious error in professionalism.
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WolFish is experienced with working with people in those kind of situations. It takes very good boundaries, skill, and patience.
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WolFish is experienced with working with people in those kind of situations. It takes very good boundaries, skill, and patience.
Does he work at the frontline of those services? all too often the first person you see is clueless?
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I agree with odeon and bodie about it being very complicated. I support the right to take your own life, in that I don't think it should be illegal to attempt suicide, and I think people should be able to end their lives if that is what they want
But I could never just stand there and do nothing if I saw someone try to kill themselves and they were still able to be saved
It is a difficult one, as one the one hand I'm saying someone should be allowed to end their life if that is what they want. but at the same time I'd consciously try to stop them if I was there
I guess the main reason is that you don't know for sure that they had really thought it thru and weren't just desparate and could eventually get better. If someone's physically able, then there's nothing to stop them doing it somewhere isolated where no one will find them before it's too late. So i think people do have a responsibility to do whatever they can to save someone who has, say, just jumped off a bridge... while still maintaining that everyone has the right to do that and that it's then up to them if they survive, leave hospital and go and shoot themselves in the woods or something
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Also if you do come across someone who's just attempted suciide but not succeeded, the chances are they were either making a "cry for help" or hadn't thought it thru properly and were just very despareate at the time
which means that ther's a pretty high chance they could get better and change their mind
whereas someone who's 100% certain and never gonna change their mind is more likely to do it in a way where they won't be found til it's too late.
obviously that's not always the case, and I'm not sayign people who commit suicide somewhere more public are just looking for attention or anything, just that there's a higher chance of them being "cureable" if they've done it unsuccessfully
EDIT: just realised how ridiculous that last sentence sounds haha, hopefully you all get what I mean though. I'm not explaining myself well at all here. only had an hour's sleep :M
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Maybe a change in the law. If someone signed a legal document that could be produced or shown to medics, it might make the job easier. Although i see flaws in that, i can think of nothing else.
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I don't think anything's gonna happen before we at least allow some kind of assisted suicide for terminally ill people
While people are still against that, nothing will legally change regarding suicide for non-terminally ill people
It's a tough one, for the reasons you and odeon gave
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Does he work at the frontline of those services? all too often the first person you see is clueless?
He worked for a long time as a crisis counsellor at agencies and in the ER. He has his fair share of idiot coworker stories, but he tells them much better than I could.
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If I tried to kill myself and someone saved me I'd be pissed. Lemme alone here, I'm trying to die you assholes!
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I have just read what odeon said. He makes a good point But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this?
It must be very hard when you are expected to respect others 'right to commit suicide' and then also 'help' those who want it/ need it. I mean how the hell are you supposed to KNOW. Ok someone taking a load of pills and then turning up in A&E saying 'I'v just done the lot' with an empty bottle in their hands - yeah pretty obvious they are wanting HELP. But what about other scenarios that may not be all that clear. Maybe they were found already unconscious or something. How many times will the staff on these wards faced a right load of abuse because they did SAVE someone. Do they SAVE people two or three times, or what? I think it is perhaps an area that is highly skilled but maybe it is not recognised. It must be soul destroying to work with someone and give them your best care only to see them again in a few months. Perhaps staff should be trained to a higher level, i don't know. I still think that what ren and eris went through falls way under the mark and is a serious error in professionalism.
Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.
But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?
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If I tried to kill myself and someone saved me I'd be pissed. Lemme alone here, I'm trying to die you assholes!
Yet in many countries you could be fined for not helping.
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If I tried to kill myself and someone saved me I'd be pissed. Lemme alone here, I'm trying to die you assholes!
Yet in many countries you could be fined for not helping.
Sometimes suicide is a rational choice, and society should grow the balls to accept it and let a person die. Other times, they're not thinking clearly and they'll probably change their mind in a few hours/days/weeks, so they should be protected from harming themselves during their temporary period of vulnerability.
Distinguishing between rational suicide that should be respected as a valid choice for a person to make, and irrational suicide that should be treated as a pathological condition of the mind, is a job for mental health professionals with no legal or personal bias for finding one way or another. Unfortunately, even the most progressive societies are just starting to come to terms with suicide as a valid personal choice, but I foresee a point in the future when there'll be a well established legal-medical process for suicide in many places that protects the mentally ill from themselves and provides a painless and assured death for those who know what they're doing.
Rescuers will be able to proceed with greater confidence when they know that people attempting suicide can be processed later on, and that people resorting to non-approved methods of suicide are less likely to be in a rational state of mind at the time and more likely to be in need of the protecting-them-from-themselves sort of help (unless it goes the same way that abortion seems to be going in parts of the US, and medically assisted suicide becomes theoretically legal, but very difficult for many people to access in practice).
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I have just read what odeon said. He makes a good point But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this?
It must be very hard when you are expected to respect others 'right to commit suicide' and then also 'help' those who want it/ need it. I mean how the hell are you supposed to KNOW. Ok someone taking a load of pills and then turning up in A&E saying 'I'v just done the lot' with an empty bottle in their hands - yeah pretty obvious they are wanting HELP. But what about other scenarios that may not be all that clear. Maybe they were found already unconscious or something. How many times will the staff on these wards faced a right load of abuse because they did SAVE someone. Do they SAVE people two or three times, or what? I think it is perhaps an area that is highly skilled but maybe it is not recognised. It must be soul destroying to work with someone and give them your best care only to see them again in a few months. Perhaps staff should be trained to a higher level, i don't know. I still think that what ren and eris went through falls way under the mark and is a serious error in professionalism.
Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.
But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?
plus there is also the small matter of dealing with relatives.... :o it has 'headache' written all over it!
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Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.
But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?
my personal views is that every single moment on this planet is precious. now i believe people have the RIGHT to commit suicide but if they fail than they should be saved and should be treated as if it was a mental illness [because lets face it. depression and suicidal thoughts is a mental illness. if not the side effect of some other dizzies/medication either way it should be treated]
so in my opinion IF you fuck it up prepare for people to attempt to save you. IF you feel like doing it i guess do it good and do it where someone does not have to clean up the mess. in other words. dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.
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dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.
Hey, who told you!? I thought I was keeping that a surprise. :(
Oh well, there's more than one way to skin a cat, heh heh. :kapow:
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Have you ever killed yourself before? If you haven't, how are you planning to?
If some has killed themself before, how are they suppose to respond to your question?
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Have you ever killed yourself before? If you haven't, how are you planning to?
If some has killed themself before, how are they suppose to respond to your question?
We have a team of psychics on standby purely for that occasion. :orly:
dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.
Hey, who told you!? I thought I was keeping that a surprise. :(
Oh well, there's more than one way to skin a cat, heh heh. :kapow:
He said don't blow your brains out , you could resort to self-decapitation instead. :thumbup:
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Have you ever killed yourself before? If you haven't, how are you planning to?
If some has killed themself before, how are they suppose to respond to your question?
He was being funny. Pig is our larf-a-minute-resident-comedian.
:hahaha:
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Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.
But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?
my personal views is that every single moment on this planet is precious. now i believe people have the RIGHT to commit suicide but if they fail than they should be saved and should be treated as if it was a mental illness [because lets face it. depression and suicidal thoughts is a mental illness. if not the side effect of some other dizzies/medication either way it should be treated]
so in my opinion IF you fuck it up prepare for people to attempt to save you. IF you feel like doing it i guess do it good and do it where someone does not have to clean up the mess. in other words. dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.
That's not always true. I agree with what Peter said.
Of course, suicidal thoughts are often down to mental illness, or a temporary feeling of hopelessness.
There are other times when suicide is a rational choice, and sometimes even the right choice. My Great Aunt is still alive, 3-4 years after being diagnosed with Senile Dementia. She hasn't been out of bed in almost 2 years, she is in constant agony, and she has the mental capacity of a baby.
If I was diagnosed with Dementia, I would like to think I would be :viking: enough to kill myself, before I reached a stage where I was unable to do it.
I am sure my Great Aunt would have felt the same way, if she had known how her illness would have progressed.
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Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.
But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?
my personal views is that every single moment on this planet is precious. now i believe people have the RIGHT to commit suicide but if they fail than they should be saved and should be treated as if it was a mental illness [because lets face it. depression and suicidal thoughts is a mental illness. if not the side effect of some other dizzies/medication either way it should be treated]
so in my opinion IF you fuck it up prepare for people to attempt to save you. IF you feel like doing it i guess do it good and do it where someone does not have to clean up the mess. in other words. dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.
That's not always true. I agree with what Peter said.
Of course, suicidal thoughts are often down to mental illness, or a temporary feeling of hopelessness.
There are other times when suicide is a rational choice, and sometimes even the right choice. My Great Aunt is still alive, 3-4 years after being diagnosed with Senile Dementia. She hasn't been out of bed in almost 2 years, she is in constant agony, and she has the mental capacity of a baby.
If I was diagnosed with Dementia, I would like to think I would be :viking: enough to kill myself, before I reached a stage where I was unable to do it.
I am sure my Great Aunt would have felt the same way, if she had known how her illness would have progressed.
the key is suicide and depression. when they go hand in hand... i agree if i was diagnosed with a terminal illness i would wait till things started getting rough and i hope i would have the guts to off myself before i became a burden... i should hope it never comes to that!
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I disagree that nurses have the right to be angry at suicide patients. To behave in such way just seems like a result negative stigma or ignorance toward mental illness.
A suicide patient who has required medical hospitalisation is no different from someone who has suffered an injury. Being suicidal, one is not in the right frame of mind, thinking is distorted, and they're in so much emotional pain (sometimes) that everything is clouded. So their actions can not be indicative of any real or actual desire to cease existence, but rather that the idea of ceasing to exist seems like the only viable response to their pain. It's an illness like any other.
Nurses have no more right to be angry at a suicide patient than they do a clumsy handyman.
I've been suicidal a lot. In fact I'm not entirely sure I can remember a time when it hasn't been there, lurking in the back of mind. I've only attempt twice in my life (once at 9 and again a two years ago) both of those weren't entirely serious efforts though and could probably be added to the plethora of other self harmful actions I've taken, which include a lot of mild overdoses (non-lethal but beyond prescription levels).
This past month over I was so depressed and so suicidal that I actually formulated the most detailed and well thought plan on how I could pull it off with as minimal fuss to my family as possible. I won't go into it here. The only thing that really stopped me, I feel, was my overriding sense of laziness. I didn't want to do it because it seemed like an effort, and in my depressive funk any effort was far too much for me to consider. And I couldn't overdose on pills because, as renaeden mentioned, there'd be a mess to clean up and I couldn't fathom making my family go through that, especially so soon after Xmas.
Something I wrote on my blog a while back;
Last week it peaked, to the point I was suicidal. Seriously suicidal. I had a plan and everything. Worked it all out in my head. Well that was the most worked out plan, I had/have others. It was scary. I was worried? that I was going to do something. I guess not worried for me, but worried for everyone who cares about me, particularly my Mum and [renaeden]. But I have to admit I would still welcome it… :/
Suicidal thoughts don't always accompany depressions though. I've had many a suicidal thought and plans while I've been in a good mood. It's one of the things that worries me about high moods, and hypomania and such. Because the higher the mood the less impulse control I have...or really..The less lazy I become. And if I have the energy and impulsiveness and the suicidal thoughts...I might actually do something...
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They have every right to be angry. What they don't have is the right to act based on that anger.
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They have every right to be angry. What they don't have is the right to act based on that anger.
For someone's life or how they feel about their life to be in such a state that they think of ending it as a viable option, something has gone seriously wrong.
Anger would be an incredibly selfish response to their plight. Nurses of all people should be showing compassion and patience toward them, they're emotionally scarred and tender and to have any sort of anger directed at them, whether through spiteful conscious acts (like renaeden and eris described) or even unconscious ones where the nurse unconsciously pays less attention or due care to the patient, would be incredibly unhelpful to their recovery. Much like pouring hot water on a burn victim.
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I think you missed my point. The nurses should always act *professionally* when treating patients but they should be allowed to be angry. As I pointed out before, they see death every day and they know that they can't always save everyone. They also know that there aren't enough medics so saving a suicidal person might indirectly result in the death of someone who just happened to be sick.
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What makes a suicidal person any less important than any other patient?
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The fact that they attempted suicide. If you don't value your life enough, why are you expecting someone else to?
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So people who smoke or eat too much junk are less valuable than people who have a very strict diet and exercise every day?
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Of course people have the right to be angry btw. People have the right to have ANY feelings in any situation. They have the right to feel angry or disgusted at any patient
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So people who smoke or eat too much junk are less valuable than people who have a very strict diet and exercise every day?
Nice strawman.
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Well they clearly don't value their life enough, so why should their doctors?
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The fact that they attempted suicide. If you don't value your life enough, why are you expecting someone else to?
*sigh*
That's not at all what suicide is about. It's not that they don't value their lives, but rather suicide is a response to pain. When pain exceeds the available coping mechanisms, suicide and self harm become an option. Severe low self esteem, coupled with depression and emotional pain can creating a system to thinking that leads the patient to believe that those they care about would be better off without them, that their lives are meaningless, pointless and wasted on them. It's not that they don't value the life, but rather they feel that they have wasted it. Paradoxically it might even be a result of actually valuing their life and wanting a pain free existence. It has very little to do with not valuing their life, or actually wanting to die.
But even if those who are suicidal don't value their lives, and even if they would want nurses to look after other patients first, I'd say they are in a clear need of someone valuing their life, because if the patient doesn't value their life and the nurses don't either what message is the patient receiving? You're right to devalue your own life, you're not worth our time. You should've just died and not burdened us with your crap.
The mental illnesses that precipitate suicide it are critical, and often very acute. They are just as much in need to immediate and due care as any other patient. Of course if their life isn't in immediate danger and they're being properly supervised and there are other patients in a more immediate danger, then the nurses should focus on those patients, but only on a matter of danger to life priority. NOT because the suicide patient is less important.
So people who smoke or eat too much junk are less valuable than people who have a very strict diet and exercise every day?
Good point, the only priority in medical care is on a immediate danger basis. Who is in the most immediate danger? It should not matter whether that person is nutritionally neglectful, suicidal, old, or poor, or even healthy, young and rich.
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So people who smoke or eat too much junk are less valuable than people who have a very strict diet and exercise every day?
Nice strawman.
I don't think that is a strawman at all. Adam raised a valid point. Well someone who smokes, drinks or eats excessively isn't "wilfully devaluing" their life, they are still devaluing it. By your own argument toward suicidal patients, these people should be subject to anger, or lack of caring from their nurses/doctors.
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So people who smoke or eat too much junk are less valuable than people who have a very strict diet and exercise every day?
Nice strawman.
I don't think that is a strawman at all. Adam raised a valid point. Well someone who smokes, drinks or eats excessively isn't "wilfully devaluing" their life, they are still devaluing it. By your own argument toward suicidal patients, these people should be subject to anger, or lack of caring from their nurses/doctors.
Yes, I realise that is what the strawman leads to, but there is a subtle difference between eating, drinking, smoking, etc, and trying to off yourself. Can you guess what that little difference is?
As for the rest of the argument, most of it is up there and I can't be arsed to repeat them. A few points, however:
If you say you should have the right to try to off yourself, fine, but should the doctors have to save your sorry arse every time? Should they prioritise you rather than some poor kid with asthma? It's a case of wanting to eat the cake while keeping it for later, and while you clearly chose the mental illness route when arguing, others haven't and will probably object unless they think it's more useful to unite against horribly un-PC odeon.
Oh, and btw, the obese and the drunk are frequently subjected to anger or lack of care from medics. Probably far more frequently than the attempted suicide victims. But that wasn't what I said, did I? I said that of course they should be allowed to be angry--how can you actually stop them?--but they shouldn't be allowed to *act* on their anger.
Next strawman.
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A suicidal person is often the victim of an ILLNESS. that is why they have done it.
Whereas someone who eats,drinks,smokes etc is often simply just choosing to put their life/health at risk
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If you say you should have the right to try to off yourself, fine, but should the doctors have to save your sorry arse every time?
Of course they should. It's their job.
Should they prioritise you rather than some poor kid with asthma?
Like I said, whoever is in the most immediate danger should be prioritised. If the asthmatic kid is in the most immediate danger then definitely focus on them.
Next strawman.
That itself should be a fallacy. Dismissing counter arguments by incorrectly calling them fallacious.
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I should note I never said people should have the right to commit suicide. I'm undecided on that, personally.
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I should note I never said people should have the right to commit suicide. I'm undecided on that, personally.
How could you argue that people don't have the right to commit suicide, given that you have tried to kill yourself twice and made a detailed plan to do so more recently?
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I should note I never said people should have the right to commit suicide. I'm undecided on that, personally.
How could you argue that people don't have the right to commit suicide, given that you have tried to kill yourself twice and made a detailed plan to do so more recently?
Are you assuming that I was thinking logically and rationally during those times?
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I should note I never said people should have the right to commit suicide. I'm undecided on that, personally.
How could you argue that people don't have the right to commit suicide, given that you have tried to kill yourself twice and made a detailed plan to do so more recently?
Are you assuming that I was thinking logically and rationally during those times?
No, of course you weren't rational, but the fact that you tried it implies that you believe you have a right to try it.
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It doesn't really imply anything.
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I have seen some awful nurses. I do not defend any nurse who acts unprofessionally. What i will say is they are not superhuman. Expecting them to NOT have feelings like 'anger' is a bit far fetched.
It must be bizarre to work somewhere where you have a ward full of people literally fighting for their lives, and then another ward where people are trying to end it.
I can't quite get my head around the whole suicide issue as i have never ever felt that way or spent any time dwelling on it. The only thing i am sure about is i believe they have the right to do it.
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I think we're mostly talking about ER/ED nurses, so only one ward. I also believe (but could be wrong) you need extra training to work on a psych ward.
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Psych nurses should have special training, as they are dealing with very vulnerable people.
Where i live, the nhs is in a piss poor state. My friend has a god daughter, Katy, who took an overdose and was taken to A&E. She didn't even see a psych nurse, or anyone in that field. She was dealt with by a junior doc, who hardly spoke a word of English and was given an appointment for psych evaluation some two days later.
That is really shit. She is ok now. This was a while back.
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Psych nurses should have special training, as they are dealing with very vulnerable people.
Where i live, the nhs is in a piss poor state. My friend has a god daughter, Katy, who took an overdose and was taken to A&E. She didn't even see a psych nurse, or anyone in that field. She was dealt with by a junior doc, who hardly spoke a word of English and was given an appointment for psych evaluation some two days later.
That is really shit. She is ok now. This was a while back.
thats some piss-poor work right there.
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Mental Health is lacking in lots of nations. It's such an invisible illness and many people just don't understand it unless they have some personal experience with it. The negative stigma, and ablest privilege certainly doesn't make it easy for those with a mental illness to actually talk about it either.
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A suicidal person is often the victim of an ILLNESS. that is why they have done it.
Whereas someone who eats,drinks,smokes etc is often simply just choosing to put their life/health at risk
Do you live in a large city or near one? Why do you put your life at risk?
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If you say you should have the right to try to off yourself, fine, but should the doctors have to save your sorry arse every time?
Of course they should. It's their job.
Should they prioritise you rather than some poor kid with asthma?
Like I said, whoever is in the most immediate danger should be prioritised. If the asthmatic kid is in the most immediate danger then definitely focus on them.
Next strawman.
That itself should be a fallacy. Dismissing counter arguments by incorrectly calling them fallacious.
Try again. The original argument against what I said was a typical strawman, therefore the one following was one too.
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I should note I never said people should have the right to commit suicide. I'm undecided on that, personally.
Others have argued for that right in this thread. They have also claimed that not everyone attempting suicide is mentally unstable. So if they are sane and want to die, why should society have save them? And also, how does one distinguish between the ones that attempted suicide based on (supposedly) rational thought and the ones that didn't?
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I should note I never said people should have the right to commit suicide. I'm undecided on that, personally.
Others have argued for that right in this thread. They have also claimed that not everyone attempting suicide is mentally unstable. So if they are sane and want to die, why should society have save them? And also, how does one distinguish between the ones that attempted suicide based on (supposedly) rational thought and the ones that didn't?
If we can't tell the different, then we should err on the side of the assumption that they are all mentally ill.
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A suicidal person is often the victim of an ILLNESS. that is why they have done it.
Whereas someone who eats,drinks,smokes etc is often simply just choosing to put their life/health at risk
Do you live in a large city or near one? Why do you put your life at risk?
:facepalm2: ridiculous comparison
I don't have much choice in the matter
Drinking/smoking etc though - I do. Unless of course it's an addiction, but then, suicide from depression is also from a mental ILLNESS
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Why is it ridiculous? Because it's difficult for you to do something about it? Weak excuse.
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It's a ridiculous comparison because I don't CHOOSE to live where I live
I do choose (for the most part) what i eat, whether I drink, whether I smoke etc though
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What you eat is partly destined by the indoctrination by your parents. :M
Parents should stop feeding their kids. Indoctrination is wrong.
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I see where this is going. :P
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Oooooh, pray, do tell.
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I see where this is going. :P
To the left?
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To the right?
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This thread makes me sad.
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Awww, poor Ceilidh.
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I see where this is going. :P
To the left?
To the right?
Calavera knows, but, looks like he does not want to tell. :'(
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I used to know, not anymore.
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I gave up awhile ago
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So we're all in agreement that suicide is awesome, right?
Good ol' Al was pushing hard for my suicide in chat a couple night ago. He really is an encouraging old man.
And me, well I've never been more enthusiastic about it!
“Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.”
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So we're all in agreement that suicide is awesome, right?
Good ol' Al was pushing hard for my suicide in chat a couple night ago. He really is an encouraging old man.
And me, well I've never been more enthusiastic about it!
“Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.”
you arent anything after you commit suicide.
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Oh look at Pig's new avatar. What are you? A born again Christian now?
Because that's extremely lame, dude. :tard:
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So we're all in agreement that suicide is awesome, right?
Good ol' Al was pushing hard for my suicide in chat a couple night ago. He really is an encouraging old man.
And me, well I've never been more enthusiastic about it!
“Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.”
you arent anything after you commit suicide.
You weren't anything before you were born either. Was that so bad? Seems pretty easy to me. I'm looking forward to reuniting with the void.
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So we're all in agreement that suicide is awesome, right?
Good ol' Al was pushing hard for my suicide in chat a couple night ago. He really is an encouraging old man.
And me, well I've never been more enthusiastic about it!
“Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.”
you arent anything after you commit suicide.
You weren't anything before you were born either. Was that so bad? Seems pretty easy to me. I'm looking forward to reuniting with the void.
so be it then.
I believe in re-incarnation, so I know the void will throw you back.
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I believe in re-incarnation, so I know the void will throw you back.
Oh okay, dats kewl bro. I believe in Science!
I mean, those guys wear lab coats; you've got to take them seriously.
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I believe in re-incarnation, so I know the void will throw you back.
Oh okay, dats kewl bro. I believe in Science!
I mean, those guys wear lab coats; you've got to take them seriously.
maybe you will come back as a ethiopian child next time
even tho I think a termite might be more appropriate
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I believe in re-incarnation, so I know the void will throw you back.
Oh okay, dats kewl bro. I believe in Science!
I mean, those guys wear lab coats; you've got to take them seriously.
maybe you will come back as a ethiopian child next time
even tho I think a termite might be more appropriate
aye man dat not cool.
i wanna be an ice cream cone next time. devoured by rush limbaugh's asshole.
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So we're all in agreement that suicide is awesome, right?
I don't know about suicide as a general concept. I have to weigh the idea on a case by case basis. Yours would be pretty awesome. :thumbup:
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I attempted suicide in 1999 the night before my 20th birthday. Overdosed on aspirin. I had my stomach pumped. They put the tube in through my nose into my stomach. I felt the tube in my nose days afterward. They put me in handcuffs and took me down to the station. I was later released from the hospital since it was my first attempt. My mother was yelling at me that night and it was driving me insane.
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I attempted suicide about on the 28th Feb. Woo.
Wouldn't mind doing it again. Or...I would mind, but I have the distinct and serious urge to do so.
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When the PR was about 11 she broke her leg and was in a cast from toe to hip. Anyway, we had to return to the ER one night because she was complaining about the leg. In the next "room" they were pumping out an addict's stomach with charcoal. Between the sounds and the conversation, it was the best DARE lesson she could have gotten.
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I was made to drink the charcoal once. I will never forget the taste and consistency of it.
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why "attempts"?
whats the big deal?
here's how to conduct a 100% successful suicide, no chemicals, guns or dangerous animals needed:
rails:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1b/European_railway_map.jpg/240px-European_railway_map.jpg)
you cant go anywhere in the world, without running into rails.
now consider this:
you are going to die, so you dont have to worry about
1. the law, or 2. your economy or 3. the hastle involved. right?
so
IF you are far away from rails, spend all your money on whatever tickets needed to get there. no problem, you wont be needing money where you're going.
IF you cannot get to the rails, without somehow breaking the law: break it anyway! if you get chased, even better, youll probably act more desperate and uncautiously, and run right in front of some train.
whatever the hastle it shouldnt matter, cus your gonna die anyway.
So there!
forget knives, pills, guns and even tall bridges, just find your nearest railway, and wait for the train. should be 20 minutes tops.
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My friend did that when I was 17. I don't know if the train driver ever went back to work afterwards.
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My friend did that when I was 17. I don't know if the train driver ever went back to work afterwards.
probably not.
some years ago a train driver plowed through a flock of reindeer. he left a streak of total carnage. he didnt go back to work either.
my point is, the train offs you, and theres no question about it.
pills: small chance of sucess, it may take hours to work, and in the meantime youll get interrupted and saved. often your body fights too hard, and you simply survive the overdose.
knife: takes too much hardcore ballsyness to carve yourself up sufficiently to bleed out, also takes too long. too much potential for failure.
bridge: pretty sure, but so much worse if you fail, having to live the rest of your life in a wheelchair, w a shattered spine or something lame.
gun: see above. if you are really out of luck, you're discovered, revived, and living the rest of your life a terribly reduced person.
the point of my point is:
people dont really want to die.
(they want a better life, a better reality. sometimes they erroneously attribute death with these qualities: death is like sleep! death is the start of a new and better life!)
so instead of using _death_ as a "cry for help", why not actually use words?
"i need someone to talk to", or something... i always disliked suicide...
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Know someone who used to work on a train.
The humour about suicide she had would shock quite a few here.
She also said that on times the train managed to stop in time, it was really hard to get people from the rails. Most people wanting to end their life that way are so determined, that, in her words, they are already dead, before the train has run over them.
And ZEGH, there are people who survive a train. They end up severely handicapped.
That train map of yours could be enhanced with hotspots. There are places where people jump in front of a train a lot more than other places.
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Where I used to live they have people who patrol the tracks, booting the suicidal people off, because it's too commonly done. I think you want to avoid those hotspots and find a remote place where even if you don't quite succeed, they won't get to you soon enough.
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Know someone who used to work on a train.
The humour about suicide she had would shock quite a few here.
She also said that on times the train managed to stop in time, it was really hard to get people from the rails. Most people wanting to end their life that way are so determined, that, in her words, they are already dead, before the train has run over them.
And ZEGH, there are people who survive a train. They end up severely handicapped.
That train map of yours could be enhanced with hotspots. There are places where people jump in front of a train a lot more than other places.
i think people hesitate more than what they want to admit. for example, if someone throws a punch, theres a good chance theyll never follow it through, theyll swing a fist, then "automatically" begin regretting, and pulling back, landing a pathetic little bitchslap instead of the knock-out they hoped for
the same goes for a lot of potentially-ballsy decisions i bet, such as throwing yourself in front of a train. hesitation and lack of complete dedication would delay you, untill its just too late, and the train cuts off your arm, or breaks your spine, or something idiotic. but if you think about it... take a deep breath, walk right on top of the rail, and just STAND there facing the train. it doesnt have to be "in the last second", the train wont be able to stop anyway, so time it so you have to stand and fact the train for at least a couple of seconds. maybe even bow your head foreward, for maximum impact.
again, my point being, "attempts" are for those who never really wanted to really die, but rather wanted someone to notice and reach out for them.
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I think that death by cop or death by train is a despicable way to commit suicide. The cop or train engineer lives with the horror forever.
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I think that death by cop or death by train is a despicable way to commit suicide. The cop or train engineer lives with the horror forever.
im only being pragmatic. all suicides are despicable. what about the poor parents left behind, heavied down by guilt? friends and other family, wondering what they might have done or said, to change what happened.
you are all missing my point, despite me typing up my point at the end of every post, goddamnit :D
i am NOT advertising the use of trains for suicide OR suicide itself :D
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of course suicide is awful for those left behind, but no one shouldd be expected to live solely for other people
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I think that death by cop or death by train is a despicable way to commit suicide. The cop or train engineer lives with the horror forever.
im only being pragmatic. all suicides are despicable. what about the poor parents left behind, heavied down by guilt? friends and other family, wondering what they might have done or said, to change what happened.
you are all missing my point, despite me typing up my point at the end of every post, goddamnit :D
i am NOT advertising the use of trains for suicide OR suicide itself :D
Agreed.
BTW, whatever happened to the quiet suicide of slitting your wrists and bleeding out in the bathtub?
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Well, if I were seriously suicidal, which I'm not/haven't had a depression since 2007/yay, I would find me a gun and I think I.... would take a few assholes with me then. Some fuckers who, let's say, wronged me big time in the past.
Not advocating it and I'm NOT going to do it but.. ja.. hypothetically speaking.
(you thinking> that lutra dude always turns thing towards the more positive things.. ) :autism:
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Well, if I were seriously suicidal, which I'm not/haven't had a depression since 2007/yay, I would find me a gun and I think I.... would take a few assholes with me then. Some fuckers who, let's say, wronged me big time in the past.
Not advocating it and I'm NOT going to do it but.. ja.. hypothetically speaking.
(you thinking> that lutra dude always turns thing towards the more positive things.. ) :autism:
* decides to read the paper more closely, when it is about weird stuff in the south *
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There are people I'd like to know have offed themselves.
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Well, if I were seriously suicidal, which I'm not/haven't had a depression since 2007/yay, I would find me a gun and I think I.... would take a few assholes with me then. Some fuckers who, let's say, wronged me big time in the past.
Not advocating it and I'm NOT going to do it but.. ja.. hypothetically speaking.
(you thinking> that lutra dude always turns things towards the more positive things.. ) :autism:
I could tell, and seriously² dirty some Berregse laundries/ talking about weird stuff in the south/two faced BoZ folks/bone-marrowed catholics basically.
Like e.g. alderman/wethouder Ton Linssen who doesn't give a shit about the law and/or basic human rights. He basically ordered someone to break in someone's house and put a bug there to eavesdrop what's been said there.. 3(?) years ago.
No fucking kid ya.. someone found out and made it public here and.. tjah, he's still an alderman here. He's megalomaniac sick in the head and ja.. reigns Bergen op Zoom for the last 10 years.
It'ssss.. incredible this exists in Holland, really.
How honest a person are you Hykey, I'm wondering. How often do you read a (national) newspaper?
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You've busted me Lutra.
I used to scrutinise at least one national newspaper in the morning. But, my attention span, and, my financial resources went out of the window.
Recently I got myself a "proef-abonnement" on a regional paper, that covers quite a bit of the national stuff. Attention span is still not what it used to be. When I am at my parents, I love to read the background articles in the paper they read.
I like to have a paper again. So, I can try and focus on the reports about the south west. :lurk:
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I think that death by cop or death by train is a despicable way to commit suicide. The cop or train engineer lives with the horror forever.
im only being pragmatic. all suicides are despicable. what about the poor parents left behind, heavied down by guilt? friends and other family, wondering what they might have done or said, to change what happened.
you are all missing my point, despite me typing up my point at the end of every post, goddamnit :D
i am NOT advertising the use of trains for suicide OR suicide itself :D
Agreed.
BTW, whatever happened to the quiet suicide of slitting your wrists and bleeding out in the bathtub?
it requires more dedication than most people have, and will easily "blur" into the attempt, rather than the success.
i mean, there are many sure methods of offing oneself, besides the train. a bullet up through the palate (instead of into the temple) is a pretty sure method. a shotgun to pretty much anywhere on your body, even limbs, will kill you (provided you dont get rescued :D). a friend of mine killed himself with a shotgun to the chest.
but thats it, he never "cried for help", his mission was to end it, and die. so... he got a shotgun, blasted himself to pieces, and died.
i dont know why people are SO... barred... inside themselves, they will play with life and death, only to catalyst some much needed communication. another friend of mine did the drama-attempt, there were pills and razor blades and booze in an unholy mix, waking his mother and sister, both of them running around screaming while he was staggering around bleeding all over the house.
but i do know his living conditions, and he is the "type" i guess, who would never "open up" to his closest family. at the time i was away for military, so i guess he was out of friends to open up to also, so, he went with the desperate option - the "suicide attempt" or "cry for help"
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I met someone who tried to kill himself with a bullet through the head because he was depressed about his obesity years ago. He had a last second change of heart and only succeeded in blowing off half of the lower half of his face. Needless to say he is alive, but his life is difficult because of the damage and the fact that he is still overweight.
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Well, if I were seriously suicidal, which I'm not/haven't had a depression since 2007/yay, I would find me a gun and I think I.... would take a few assholes with me then. Some fuckers who, let's say, wronged me big time in the past.
Not advocating it and I'm NOT going to do it but.. ja.. hypothetically speaking.
(you thinking> that lutra dude always turns thing towards the more positive things.. ) :autism:
EEK :I
"the perpetrator was an avid poster in the autism-support forum Intensity Squared"
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I met someone who tried to kill himself with a bullet through the head because he was depressed about his obesity years ago. He had a last second change of heart and only succeeded in blowing off half of the lower half of his face. Needless to say he is alive, but his life is difficult because of the damage and the fact that he is still overweight.
people lack a good understanding of what guns do.
the other day, reading about the upcoming breivik trial, a passage talked about peoples comprehension of these brutal murders (the vast majority of which were head-shot executions),
on avergae norwegian tv shows about 30 fictional murders per day.
compared to in the past, when humans would never witness deaths unless it was real, and right there in front of them, today we see movie-heroes killing bad-guys left and right, and we get very desensitized to it.
in movies guns are "off-switches", you shoot someone, they go "arkh!" and die on the spot.
in reality, a gun only throws an iron pellet at you, at a very high velocity. if it hits your torso, shock will make you fall to the ground, get "weak knees" and such, if it hits your head, it may go anywhere, it may shatter your jaws, it may crush bone but not penetrate the brain, or it may even destroy parts of your brain, but still allowing you to survive if you get help quickly.
its not an "off-switch", its merely a very brutal tool :D
when we see old black and white footage of executions, such as germans shooting jews, or that famous vietnamese colonel shooting the prisoner in the street, they fall down and appear as if instantly dead.
but if you imagine these arent executions, you'd imagine paramedics rushing to the spot, many of these people could potentially recover from their execution :D
what always "gets" me watching such footage, is the facial expression people make, before they pass out.
(http://pulitzerprize.org/files/2009/07/vietnam.jpg)
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I met someone who tried to kill himself with a bullet through the head because he was depressed about his obesity years ago. He had a last second change of heart and only succeeded in blowing off half of the lower half of his face. Needless to say he is alive, but his life is difficult because of the damage and the fact that he is still overweight.
people lack a good understanding of what guns do.
the other day, reading about the upcoming breivik trial, a passage talked about peoples comprehension of these brutal murders (the vast majority of which were head-shot executions),
on avergae norwegian tv shows about 30 fictional murders per day.
compared to in the past, when humans would never witness deaths unless it was real, and right there in front of them, today we see movie-heroes killing bad-guys left and right, and we get very desensitized to it.
in movies guns are "off-switches", you shoot someone, they go "arkh!" and die on the spot.
in reality, a gun only throws an iron pellet at you, at a very high velocity. if it hits your torso, shock will make you fall to the ground, get "weak knees" and such, if it hits your head, it may go anywhere, it may shatter your jaws, it may crush bone but not penetrate the brain, or it may even destroy parts of your brain, but still allowing you to survive if you get help quickly.
its not an "off-switch", its merely a very brutal tool :D
when we see old black and white footage of executions, such as germans shooting jews, or that famous vietnamese colonel shooting the prisoner in the street, they fall down and appear as if instantly dead.
but if you imagine these arent executions, you'd imagine paramedics rushing to the spot, many of these people could potentially recover from their execution :D
what always "gets" me watching such footage, is the facial expression people make, before they pass out.
(http://pulitzerprize.org/files/2009/07/vietnam.jpg)
Lead or jacketed lead rather than iron. Gliding metal jacket is most often 97% copper and 3% zinc although other compositions are used. Steel jacketed rounds are not used as often anymore and are most often found in military surplus ammo. You are correct that pistol ammunition wounds are survived more often than not. Rifle rounds OTOH are much more destructive and likely to kill or maim.
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Lead or jacketed lead rather than iron. Gliding metal jacket is most often 97% copper and 3% zinc although other compositions are used. Steel jacketed rounds are not used as often anymore and are most often found in military surplus ammo. You are correct that pistol ammunition wounds are survived more often than not. Rifle rounds OTOH are much more destructive and likely to kill or maim.
i know theyre mostly copper, i did think of it for a short moment, while typing out iron "ohhh, some aspie is gonna notice this one!" :D
and yes, theres a lot more difference between the destruction from your ordinary 9mm pistol, and a more heavily calibred rifle or shotgun, than what people realize.
which is why i added that you can survive a pistol round to the head, while just as easily die from a shotgun shot to a leg, simply because the latter cause a lot more destruction.
again, this illustrates that guns arent simply on-off switches, but its basically sortof like stabbing someone, only w a lot more force.
i thought the same thing when watching movies about medieval war: they shoot an arrow at someone, who gets hit in the chest, and as always - die on the spot. i just cannot figure out what would drop a person dead _on the spot_ by having a lung punctured or something. arrows kill, yes, but its gonna take a few minutes at least...
the important thing is that they (an enemy or prey) gets incapacitated
i remember they said about breiviks weapons and ammunition, that the combination made his weaponry near unsurviveable.
i actually have yet to find a real statistic of how many were actually hit by his bullets, for then to survive.
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a shotgun to pretty much anywhere on your body, even limbs, will kill you (provided you dont get rescued :D).
Have known for awhile, if I was going to do it, I'd want to use a shotgun. In my field, you know what works and what doesn't, and if you know how unlikely it is to successfully complete, for example, a pill OD, that renders any "attempt" just a gesture, and, well, fuck that shit. If I want attention I can sure as shit get it in a more constructive way than that. Not to mention issues like long-term organ damage form poisoning oneself. I've questioned whether or not I'd want to leave a note saying it was nobody's fault but frankly I doubt that would make much of a difference. It's a selfish act, but I'd be doing it with the understanding that it was me choosing what was best for myself. I would probably leave a note someplace asking that the specifics of how I died be kept from my grandparents. I think they're the only family members it could be practically kept from, anyway; even if they didn't know, my parents would pretty easily infer. It would fuck my father up a bit more than he already is, but he's already pretty far gone. My mother would pretend to be devastated but would actually be delighted by all the attention and pity it would garner her. I've considered specifying in my will that be be barred from attending any type of wake or funeral, but I wouldn't do that while my grandparents are still alive; not worth hurting them for my own spite and anger.
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a shotgun to pretty much anywhere on your body, even limbs, will kill you (provided you dont get rescued :D).
Have known for awhile, if I was going to do it, I'd want to use a shotgun. In my field, you know what works and what doesn't, and if you know how unlikely it is to successfully complete, for example, a pill OD, that renders any "attempt" just a gesture, and, well, fuck that shit. If I want attention I can sure as shit get it in a more constructive way than that. Not to mention issues like long-term organ damage form poisoning oneself. I've questioned whether or not I'd want to leave a note saying it was nobody's fault but frankly I doubt that would make much of a difference. It's a selfish act, but I'd be doing it with the understanding that it was me choosing what was best for myself. I would probably leave a note someplace asking that the specifics of how I died be kept from my grandparents. I think they're the only family members it could be practically kept from, anyway; even if they didn't know, my parents would pretty easily infer. It would fuck my father up a bit more than he already is, but he's already pretty far gone. My mother would pretend to be devastated but would actually be delighted by all the attention and pity it would garner her. I've considered specifying in my will that be be barred from attending any type of wake or funeral, but I wouldn't do that while my grandparents are still alive; not worth hurting them for my own spite and anger.
eek
but yeah, if attention be the objective, theres a lot better ways to do this than to carve open your arms or get yourself kidney or liver-damage due to a pill overdose
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eek
but yeah, if attention be the objective, theres a lot better ways to do this than to carve open your arms or get yourself kidney or liver-damage due to a pill overdose
Lol, sorry if the post seemed more depressed than it was meant to. I just feel really strongly that using suicide as emotional blackmail is bullshit. I think in general suicide is a selfish and often weak action, but it's also one of the most serious personal decisions a person can make, and in some cases, I do think it's (arguably) a valid decision. I don't think that usual threats or gestures as social currency is generally defensible, though.
Seen too many people do it. Pisses me right the hell off.
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Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?
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Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?
theres is a big leap from _asking for help_ and trying to end your life.
theres a whole raaange of things one can do, to draw attention to yourself, if you arent heard.
be naked in public. thats one sure way of gathering attention.
make a scene.
be loud and obnoxious
steal stuff
beat someone up
you know...
its very all-or-nothing with a lot of people, it reminds me a comic book strip, where someone wanted the salt to be passed him, and he cried out "Give me salt or give me death!!!"
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I'll try another thread here.
What do you think about suicide? Do you like it, or just plain love it? Have you ever killed yourself before? If you haven't, how are you planning to?
:santa:
Yes I did. I swallowed 50+ dextrmethorphan tablets and drank a bottle of vodka. Lived through it somehow, or came back to life or something.
Why? you wanna die? ???
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Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?
theres is a big leap from _asking for help_ and trying to end your life.
For those of sound judgement yes it is a big leap, but those whose judgement is impaired, or for whom there is too much pain, for those whose depression is such that merely asking for help is too painful, non-lethal attempts at suicide are often the only seemingly viable course of action.
I can say when I've done that I'm not thinking to myself "Now they'll listen.", nor did I really think that I wanted to die. It's a pain vs coping mechanisms equation.
its very all-or-nothing with a lot of people
Indeed, often a symptom of people's mental health issues. For example, those with Borderline Personality Disorder (a condition that sees A LOT of "cries for attention" type suicidal gestures), black and white thinking pervades their judgement. So for them it literally can be all or nothing.
/not an expert, just personally familiar
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Dude i'm all black and white. You calling me crazy? I'm gonna kill you GA. >:(
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Dude i'm all black and white. You calling me crazy? I'm gonna kill you GA. >:(
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying :facepalm2:
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Dude i'm all black and white. You calling me crazy? I'm gonna kill you GA. >:(
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying :facepalm2:
:green: Yeah I know. See what I did there?
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Indeed
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brings my mind to hitler
"ich bin sorry, kleine adolf, but deine paintings just arent all that gut!"
"WAS!? ICH WILL KILL ALL ZE JEWS! ACH FICK IT, ICH WILL KILL ALL ZE HANDICAPPED AND GYPSIES AS WELL! ZEN ICH WILL KILL MYSELF, MEIN HUND AND MEIN FRAU >:0"
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I think suicide may be selfish, but a lot of the things mentally ill people do are selfish, but can they be held responsible for that.
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What is selfish in the case of ill?
Illnesses make people do things, physically or mentally that they would not do otherwise.
Extreme diarrhea is a very obvious example of that. Very horrible for bystanders too, but, still can't call it selfish.
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I don't think suicide is selfish. It's hardly altruistic either.
It's about as many shades of grey i can think of.
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I don't think suicide is selfish. It's hardly altruistic either.
It's about as many shades of grey i can think of.
True that.
The hardest I find it when people talk about their planned suicide as something altruistic, good for those left behind. I really cannot cope with that.
How it will be for people left behind is not in the power of the dead. The grief and loss of the ones left behind is theirs. No one can rule over the grave.
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That is true. Also the reaction of loved (or unloved) ones can never be predicted. Death can make people behave totally out of character.
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Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?
Seeking help is different than emotionally blackmailing others.
Are you asking for justification or to feel better about using threats and gestures to communicate, or genuinely asking for alternatives? Because, alternatives are the better way to go. Using suicidal threats and gestures to communicate will ultimately just perpetuate cycles of dysfunction that will keep you more depressed than you'd be if you knew and used better ways to get your message across.
I'm not saying people who use threats and gestures as blackmail/emotional currency are terrible people- but, they are doing something quite shitty to the people they're blackmailing. If that's really the only way to communicate with a particular person, well, I would seriously question why that particular person is in your life.
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Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?
Seeking help is different than emotionally blackmailing others.
Are you asking for justification or to feel better about using threats and gestures to communicate, or genuinely asking for alternatives? Because, alternatives are the better way to go. Using suicidal threats and gestures to communicate will ultimately just perpetuate cycles of dysfunction that will keep you more depressed than you'd be if you knew and used better ways to get your message across.
I'm not saying people who use threats and gestures as blackmail/emotional currency are terrible people- but, they are doing something quite shitty to the people they're blackmailing. If that's really the only way to communicate with a particular person, well, I would seriously question why that particular person is in your life.
When I attempted suicide my mother wouldn't stop screaming at me and I felt desperate. It hurts my ears to be yelled at. I find physical pain much more bearable. I wasn't thinking I'd get back at her, I just wanted to escape my hell and she was driving me nuts.
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only in The West will a yelling parent be described as "hell"...
i really, really dont get it.
one friend of mine was actually handed over to her mothers bf - by her own mother - for him to abuse as he wanted.
in other words:
her own mother aided her own husband into raping her own daughter.
being yelled at wouldnt even come close to reasons for suicide, and i dont give the slightest shit how fragile you are, sensitive to sounds.
thats like one step away from shooting yourself because your favorite tv show was postponed with an hour, or something trivial like that. too much homework? suicide! maybe accidentally erased a save-game from your favorite game! suicide!
and this coming from someone with a mentally unstable mother, who would yell at me daily, just to vent, just to release some stress. ive had worse things going against me than a yelling mother. there is so much worse to have.
here is some hell:
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000uhZCHZTgkQ4/s/750/750/LIberia-civil-war-007.jpg)
really, i dont mean to be a brick, but you're young. you have plenty of oportunity to toughen up a bit. everything considered, your life is swell. you even have computer games.
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only in The West will a yelling parent be described as "hell"...
i really, really dont get it.
one friend of mine was actually handed over to her mothers bf - by her own mother - for him to abuse as he wanted.
in other words:
her own mother aided her own husband into raping her own daughter.
being yelled at wouldnt even come close to reasons for suicide, and i dont give the slightest shit how fragile you are, sensitive to sounds.
thats like one step away from shooting yourself because your favorite tv show was postponed with an hour, or something trivial like that. too much homework? suicide! maybe accidentally erased a save-game from your favorite game! suicide!
and this coming from someone with a mentally unstable mother, who would yell at me daily, just to vent, just to release some stress. ive had worse things going against me than a yelling mother. there is so much worse to have.
here is some hell:
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000uhZCHZTgkQ4/s/750/750/LIberia-civil-war-007.jpg)
really, i dont mean to be a brick, but you're young. you have plenty of oportunity to toughen up a bit. everything considered, your life is swell. you even have computer games.
I think you missed my point. It wasn't "emotional blackmail", I was trying to escape. I felt trapped. And yes I've had much worse happen to me which I do not feel like reliving. (I was catatonic for 3 years)I used to be very dispassionate as a child. I rarely cried. I went from that to being hypersensitive and I have severe depression which I cannot control. My medications aren't working and I am desperate.
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i know you didnt refer to emotional blackmail,
im just... generally sick of western, relatively lucky (globally speaking) people wanting to die because its not all going too well for them.
life is about enduring.
reincarnation, 2nd chances, life-after-death, those are all uncertainties.
people kill themselves out of a perception of relief - that the pain will go away. but how the hell are you to even feel relief, if you are dead?
people take death far too lightly, while other places people are fighting to stay alive.
not just in poor countries
just think of unlucky sobs everywhere, people who die in car crashes, people who scream for their lives in a plummeting aircraft, those hiding from fucking breivik, as he systematically hunted them down, and blew their brains out with his smug smile.
nobody is trying to shoot you. you arent in a burning plane.
i realize im probably exaggerating now, to bring my point through. you admit to having endured much worse than a yelling mother yourself.
imo suicide is reserved for those with an absolutely debilitating condition combined with absolutely no positive outlook in life, such as someone w a severed spine, accidental castration and having absolutely no friends and family. even then i wouldnt support it, but at least understand it.
you know what i mean?
we need to get things into perspective... "we" being basically everyone.
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That was a wicked post zegh. :2thumbsup: You worded it well and it said exactly what i have been thinking but just couldn't find the words.
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(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/missteresabrown/resize-12.jpg?t=1331556209)
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Just because you#re "relatively lucky" compared to people in war-torn / poverty-stricken countries doesn't mean you aren't in pain. Sure, I could spend all day on the xbox, I have central heating, I can order a pizza, and I'm unlikely to have my arm blown off by an explosive... but does that mean I can't suffer?
Mental illness for example, doesn't necessarily care how well-off you are. (yes I know there are variations, my point is that regardless of whtehr you're living in the west or not, you can still suffer)
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That was a wicked post zegh. :2thumbsup: You worded it well and it said exactly what i have been thinking but just couldn't find the words.
That makes 3.
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A lot of people who end up suicidal here would have gotten killed in a third world country.
In some countries, rape victims would end up in prison, to get raped again, and probably murdered, or they'd be killed for being damaged goods. No time for them to commit suicide.
People with big mental issues can get treatment here, in a poorer country, they'd end up in the streets, and, their death would just be the death of another homeless person.
Mental suffering is suffering. No matter where you are.
And, when is something suicide. When a depressed woman in a poor country can't get herself going any more to earn food, she'll starve. Could be passive suicide.
Seems that in Belgium, compared to other surrounding countries, suicide rates are high. Belgium seems to have a culture where people don't tell when they are mentally not feeling OK. So, no treatment for depression, because of not seeking help. And, then the braving doesn't work any more, they kill themselves. They probably thought that what they had was no real suffering.
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Not that I do not see some merit in ZEGH's post.
The western culture seems to be obsessed with perfection.
We should not be overweight,
We should not have pain.
We should not suffer.
The whole society seems to want to ban out things that are not perfect. So yes, there seems to be a pressure to make little things into huge drama. But, that's not what suicide is about in most of the cases.
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also the danger with comparing suffering of someone who's "got it relatively easy" with someone in afghanistan etc, is that it ultimately leads to a "just snap out of it" attitude. ie your problems don't matter so just get over it
If you're depressed or in pain in some way, then that is true regardless of material/financial circumstances
And if you start saying the suffering of people elsewhere in the world is worse than in the west (and I don't mean collectively, obviously in general it IS much worse in somalia or whatever, I mean the suffering of an individual), then what's to stop you continuing that? Who suffers the most on this website? Who has it hardest? Is my suffering pathetic compared to another member's?
Clearly day-to-day life, financial, political life etc is much better here. But that's on the surface. It doesn't mean individual people don't suffer mentally.
Not to mention that if it is clinical depression then it has nothing to do with circumstances
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:indeed:
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I am getting confused. Is this about suicide or being mentally ill? I don't believe all suicides are mentally ill.
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I am getting confused. Is this about suicide or being mentally ill? I don't believe all suicides are mentally ill.
^
this
mental illness is a whole different chapter.
also:
i never said western wealthy problems arent real problems, and that suffering isnt real suffering. im saying put it in _perspective_, or else _any_ problem becomes _the biggest problem in the world_.
i really wasnt gonna repeat this, but its obvious i have to:
WHY DEATH!?
again, "pass me the potatoes, OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!"
is suicide applicable to every problem on the entire scope of discomfort?
from a ruined life, to a shoelace slipping open?
really?
i burned my dinner today. i actually did. burned it. does this warrant suicide?
if someone has a problem, they should: deal with this problem in order to live their life without that particular problem.
suicide does not _relieve_ a problem, because death shuts off all reality for the dead person.
we have allready had mentioned suicide due to parents yelling. come on.
people kill themselves because their gf leaves them (two people i know of did this. one jumped off a bridge, the other hung herself in the shower, survived, but got permanent brain damage and is now in a vegetative state)
im not saying "snap out of it" at all, i am saying _deal with it_ <---NOT figuratively! deal with it as in WORK WITH IT: its not snappy! its not easy! it will take time and effort, and maybe life doesnt really get any better. so what? how high are your expectations?
starvation being "passive suicide" is total rubbish btw. i cant believe this "hurray, go-suicide!" mentality in here.
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I am getting confused. Is this about suicide or being mentally ill? I don't believe all suicides are mentally ill.
^
this
mental illness is a whole different chapter.
also:
i never said western wealthy problems arent real problems, and that suffering isnt real suffering. im saying put it in _perspective_, or else _any_ problem becomes _the biggest problem in the world_.
i really wasnt gonna repeat this, but its obvious i have to:
WHY DEATH!?
again, "pass me the potatoes, OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!"
is suicide applicable to every problem on the entire scope of discomfort?
from a ruined life, to a shoelace slipping open?
really?
i burned my dinner today. i actually did. burned it. does this warrant suicide?
if someone has a problem, they should: deal with this problem in order to live their life without that particular problem.
suicide does not _relieve_ a problem, because death shuts off all reality for the dead person.
we have allready had mentioned suicide due to parents yelling. come on.
people kill themselves because their gf leaves them (two people i know of did this. one jumped off a bridge, the other hung herself in the shower, survived, but got permanent brain damage and is now in a vegetative state)
im not saying "snap out of it" at all, i am saying _deal with it_ <---NOT figuratively! deal with it as in WORK WITH IT: its not snappy! its not easy! it will take time and effort, and maybe life doesnt really get any better. so what? how high are your expectations?
starvation being "passive suicide" is total rubbish btw. i cant believe this "hurray, go-suicide!" mentality in here.
You sounded like you were belittling my problems and that night I wasn't thinking clearly. I have an extensive history of mental illness. I feel pain even when I try to think positively and look at all the good things. It is internal. It is chemical. I am declining. As the years go by it deepens. I don't know what to do. And to me death is a relief. I get really bad PMDD every fucking month my emotions are on a wild roller coaster. I have more low than highs and it's like drowning in quicksand. I'm not saying "go suicide" I am stating what I did and why I did it at the time. I have severe depression and it is not something I have control over. This goes far beyond "discomfort".
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You sounded like you were belittling my problems and that night I wasn't thinking clearly. I have an extensive history of mental illness. I feel pain even when I try to think positively and look at all the good things. It is internal. It is chemical. I am declining. As the years go by it deepens. I don't know what to do. And to me death is a relief. I get really bad PMDD every fucking month my emotions are on a wild roller coaster. I have more low than highs and it's like drowning in quicksand. I'm not saying "go suicide" I am stating what I did and why I did it at the time. I have severe depression and it is not something I have control over. This goes far beyond "discomfort".
how do you know death is relief?
how many times a week do you kill yourself, so to feel the soothing, relaxing, thai-massage that is death?
or is death more like a nice glass of beer in the mediterranean sun?
tell me exactly in what manner you find death to be the most soothing.
why arent you dead right now btw? if death is such a tremendous joy, how come you sprung back to life?
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You sounded like you were belittling my problems and that night I wasn't thinking clearly. I have an extensive history of mental illness. I feel pain even when I try to think positively and look at all the good things. It is internal. It is chemical. I am declining. As the years go by it deepens. I don't know what to do. And to me death is a relief. I get really bad PMDD every fucking month my emotions are on a wild roller coaster. I have more low than highs and it's like drowning in quicksand. I'm not saying "go suicide" I am stating what I did and why I did it at the time. I have severe depression and it is not something I have control over. This goes far beyond "discomfort".
how do you know death is relief?
how many times a week do you kill yourself, so to feel the soothing, relaxing, thai-massage that is death?
or is death more like a nice glass of beer in the mediterranean sun?
tell me exactly in what manner you find death to be the most soothing.
why arent you dead right now btw? if death is such a tremendous joy, how come you sprung back to life?
There is a difference to a relief and being "soothing". I get depressed and I get so desperate I just want it to stop. I haven't killed myself because I am still fighting. Why the sarcasm? Are you incapable of talking normally? I am merely speaking my feelings on the subject. I don't know what your problem is.
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I haven't killed myself because I am still fighting.
why are you still fighting?
people advertise death as such a relief, but if it was so awesome, we'd all go snuff ourselves, just to get it out of the way, wouldnt we?
why drudge through life, for any reason? why bother? death is like a party.
im not so much sarcastic, as i am being rethorical.
here is what i am actually saying:
death is _not_ relief. you cannot possibly know. you can pretend you know. you can tell yourself. who told you death is relief?
hm? dead people?
most likely you heard it from culture, movies, songs, bullshitters.
death isnt relief.
relief is something you _can experience_
how would you appreciate peace and quiet, if you are dead?
nobody even stops to consider this.
you say you want your discomfort to stop. i totally get that. but listen to your own words:
in this life, you want your problems to go away.
in other words:
you want a life, without these particular problems.
and that is why you keep fighting.
so...
a first step for everyone would be: stop fucking glorifying suicide. stop fucking bragging about it, and stop throwing it around like a casual greeting "hi, oh btw im gonna kill myself, i hate my life". not saying you did that specifically, but those attitudes are well abundant.
suicide isnt a sofa. its not a vacation. its not a painkiller.
for the 10th time, lets get some perspective on things.
as for you personally, deal with your problems. they may never go away completely, but when they diminish a bit, take notice and appreciate it - because you have perspective on things.
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I haven't killed myself because I am still fighting.
why are you still fighting?
people advertise death as such a relief, but if it was so awesome, we'd all go snuff ourselves, just to get it out of the way, wouldnt we?
why drudge through life, for any reason? why bother? death is like a party.
im not so much sarcastic, as i am being rethorical.
here is what i am actually saying:
death is _not_ relief. you cannot possibly know. you can pretend you know. you can tell yourself. who told you death is relief?
hm? dead people?
most likely you heard it from culture, movies, songs, bullshitters.
death isnt relief.
relief is something you _can experience_
how would you appreciate peace and quiet, if you are dead?
nobody even stops to consider this.
you say you want your discomfort to stop. i totally get that. but listen to your own words:
in this life, you want your problems to go away.
in other words:
you want a life, without these particular problems.
and that is why you keep fighting.
so...
a first step for everyone would be: stop fucking glorifying suicide. stop fucking bragging about it, and stop throwing it around like a casual greeting "hi, oh btw im gonna kill myself, i hate my life". not saying you did that specifically, but those attitudes are well abundant.
suicide isnt a sofa. its not a vacation. its not a painkiller.
for the 10th time, lets get some perspective on things.
as for you personally, deal with your problems. they may never go away completely, but when they diminish a bit, take notice and appreciate it - because you have perspective on things.
I am not glorifying suicide. I wasn't bragging. How did it sound like I was bragging? I felt like shit that night. It was a impulse decision. I am not the most sane person when my depression gets beyond a certain point. I had a head injury at 3 1/2 which may have caused or exacerbated my chemical imbalance. (37 stitches) I have problems and I am trying more things to do to solve them. I can't smoke pot, it won't mix with my meds.
I also don't glorify suicide. I help those if they are suicidal and I don't advocate suicide to others. I just think about it a lot myself because of how I feel most of the time.
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I haven't killed myself because I am still fighting.
why are you still fighting?
people advertise death as such a relief, but if it was so awesome, we'd all go snuff ourselves, just to get it out of the way, wouldnt we?
why drudge through life, for any reason? why bother? death is like a party.
im not so much sarcastic, as i am being rethorical.
here is what i am actually saying:
death is _not_ relief. you cannot possibly know. you can pretend you know. you can tell yourself. who told you death is relief?
hm? dead people?
most likely you heard it from culture, movies, songs, bullshitters.
death isnt relief.
relief is something you _can experience_
how would you appreciate peace and quiet, if you are dead?
nobody even stops to consider this.
you say you want your discomfort to stop. i totally get that. but listen to your own words:
in this life, you want your problems to go away.
in other words:
you want a life, without these particular problems.
and that is why you keep fighting.
so...
a first step for everyone would be: stop fucking glorifying suicide. stop fucking bragging about it, and stop throwing it around like a casual greeting "hi, oh btw im gonna kill myself, i hate my life". not saying you did that specifically, but those attitudes are well abundant.
suicide isnt a sofa. its not a vacation. its not a painkiller.
for the 10th time, lets get some perspective on things.
as for you personally, deal with your problems. they may never go away completely, but when they diminish a bit, take notice and appreciate it - because you have perspective on things.
I am not glorifying suicide. I wasn't bragging. How did it sound like I was bragging? I felt like shit that night. It was a impulse decision. I am not the most sane person when my depression gets beyond a certain point. I had a head injury at 3 1/2 which may have caused or exacerbated my chemical imbalance. (37 stitches) I have problems and I am trying more things to do to solve them. I can't smoke pot, it won't mix with my meds.
I also don't glorify suicide. I help those if they are suicidal and I don't advocate suicide to others. I just think about it a lot myself because of how I feel most of the time.
most of my rantings in this thread have been aimed in general directions, not so much at you personally.
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but how often do ppl kill themselves purely over such trivial things? if they do, then clearly there is something else the matter
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but how often do ppl kill themselves purely over such trivial things? if they do, then clearly there is something else the matter
many are just irrational and misguided.
or simply religious... as in, believing in heavens, afterlives, reincarnations, etc
unfortunately, the solution is probably an "ideal world", so thats not gonna happen.
as in, a society where people are tought to be more open about their feelings.
i see parents ashamed at talking "openly and softly" to their own kids.
like... im not gonna HUG my PAL stein, and tell him "there there, you are important to me!" cus that would be fuckin gay
but a PARENT should do that to their kids. but in this society, they dont, cus they think it would be gay...
we are too shut in, as a society, and too ashamed at being open and honest.
unfortunately...
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but how often do ppl kill themselves purely over such trivial things? if they do, then clearly there is something else the matter
People kill themselves for all sorts of reasons, not all of which that are "serious" to everybody else.
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@ ZEGH, You are right that starvation is not suicide.
But, someone neglecting her or himself, because of depression, in the west, to the point of not eating, or drinking, would get transferred to a hospital. Have gotten an acquaintance of mine there twice, nearly starved and severely dehydrated. Starving can be suicide. In the west, it would be something to treat. In third world country, that person would probably just be another person dying of starvation. That is what I meant.
The people I know closer that committed suicide, or have attempted to do so all had horrible histories or mental issues.
Religious people, well, to most of them suicide would be a sin. And reincarnation would be no comfort at all. Problems not solved in this life will hit you again in the next.
I am agreeing with you if it is about how in the west suffering seems to have become unacceptable. People do suffer. People will have pain. Part of being human. Making suffering unacceptable will make that some will claim their innate right to happiness when they get a dent in their car, where others will ignore how deeply depressed they are. Both shitty outcomes.
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Soundgarden - Like Suicide [Acoustic] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcOXrYXj69I#)
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Zegh. I get the feeling that you're not just afraid to die, but afraid because what happens after is completely unknown to you. :mischief:
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I hope there is nothing afterwards. No heaven, no reincarnation, just nothing. Nothing at all.
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Zegh. I get the feeling that you're not just afraid to die, but afraid because what happens after is completely unknown to you. :mischief:
we only have one life, clinging to it is - if any - the meaning of life itself. thats why critters have long runny legs, claws, teeth, even humans with their religions and afterlife-ideas have guns and clubs and spears so to preserve themselves.
damn right i am afraid of death. ima kick it right in the nuts!
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Zegh...
*sits down next to him, puts hand on shoulder* You're gonna die man. :-\
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^ Hey.. but no playing with his boobies, ey. (http://www.wrongplanet.net/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_eek.gif)
:zoinks: (sørry)
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my man boobs are still firm and non-saggy :M
i have poverty to thank for that :M
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Anyway. Best not be afraid to die, bro. Its going to happen.
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I survived a serious suicide attempt when I was nineteen. I ended up on complete life supports, on a respirator and was in a coma for a week. Someone saved my life quite unexpectedly otherwise I wouldn't still be here. My first attempt I was only six years old. It's very sad when people take their own lives. Be strong.
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I survived a serious suicide attempt when I was nineteen. I ended up on complete life supports, on a respirator and was in a coma for a week. Someone saved my life quite unexpectedly otherwise I wouldn't still be here. My first attempt I was only six years old. It's very sad when people take their own lives. Be strong.
How did you do it?
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Anyway. Best not be afraid to die, bro. Its going to happen.
you misunderstand me.
im a rational man, i know death awaits everyone, and im fine with that. its fair, and all.
its not like im sitting around actively afraid of death, peering out my curtains, knife in hand, and stuff :D
but im not gonna be THE one to strap a bomb on myself, if you get my drift :D
im not gonna go sky-diving :D
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I survived a serious suicide attempt when I was nineteen. I ended up on complete life supports, on a respirator and was in a coma for a week. Someone saved my life quite unexpectedly otherwise I wouldn't still be here. My first attempt I was only six years old. It's very sad when people take their own lives. Be strong.
That's too bad. It sucks when others stand in the way of your personal goals.
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I survived a serious suicide attempt when I was nineteen. I ended up on complete life supports, on a respirator and was in a coma for a week. Someone saved my life quite unexpectedly otherwise I wouldn't still be here. My first attempt I was only six years old. It's very sad when people take their own lives. Be strong.
:hug:
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Anyway. Best not be afraid to die, bro. Its going to happen.
you misunderstand me.
im a rational man, i know death awaits everyone, and im fine with that. its fair, and all.
its not like im sitting around actively afraid of death, peering out my curtains, knife in hand, and stuff :D
but im not gonna be THE one to strap a bomb on myself, if you get my drift :D
im not gonna go sky-diving :D
Good, good. Long as it isn't a phobia. :thumbup:
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I survived a serious suicide attempt when I was nineteen. I ended up on complete life supports, on a respirator and was in a coma for a week. Someone saved my life quite unexpectedly otherwise I wouldn't still be here. My first attempt I was only six years old. It's very sad when people take their own lives. Be strong.
That's too bad. It sucks when others stand in the way of your personal goals.
:LMAO:
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When I was six I put the hem of my dress into the flame of a small gas heater so I could go to heaven to be with my mother. As it turned out it was a lie, my mother wasn't dead. I found that out when I was eight years old when my father dumped us with our dead mother in the Watts District of LA only a year or so after the worst riots had happened there. The situation was bad enough when I was six to do what I did. My brother remembers the flames going up over the top of my head when I couldn't take it and ran into the kitchen where my father was sitting at the table. His eyes bugged out and he ripped the dress off me. I thought I was spinning in circles and it left a large deep burn on the entire back of my right leg.
When I was nineteen it was a drug overdose they said was enough to kill a 300 lb man and I was about 100 lbs at the time.
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When I was nineteen it was a drug overdose they said was enough to kill a 300 lb man and I was about 100 lbs at the time.
Same, only 50 dxm tabs would probably kill a horse. Wierd.
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:(
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No worries bro. I won't do it again. I was an immature little bitch when I did.
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No worries bro. I won't do it again. I was an immature little bitch when I did.
How old were you?
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Twenty two.