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Start here => What's your crime? Basic Discussion => Topic started by: bodie on July 29, 2013, 04:51:05 AM
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(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00434/132988164__434051c.jpg)
GO HOME Is the message!
It is part of a new campaign to clamp down on illegal immigrants in the UK.
Is it dumb?
My thoughts
1. Can the majority of illegal immigrants read English that well?
2. The ones that can, how many do you think are going to follow the instructions and go home?
3. At £15K per van they are not going to be cost effective.
4. Was there a similar campaign used by Nazi's just before WWII with a similar go home message. It could be offensive to holocaust survivors.
5. Considering some of these people have been threatened and maybe tortured and have possibly had a terrible journey getting here, are they really going to be worried by a van?
6. People get confused between immigrants and illegal immigrants. I have often heard "bloody illegal immigrants coming here and taking our jobs and claiming benefit" This is simply not true. Yes there are many valid immigrants who work or claim benefit. Illegal immigrants fall under the radar and simply can't claim benefits or work legitimately.
7. Illegal immigrants are often employed by unscrupulous people to work as slaves. They are not free. They get paid a pittance. Their quality of life is poor. They are victims.
8. If the government feel the need to 'target' someone, I feel they should be targeting these people who harbour illegal immigrants just so they get cheap labour.
Well OK but how to 'deal' with the problem of immigration, then? First problem is there are no current figures. Only estimates on how many UK residents emigrate and how many migrants are entering - legit or not. The government admit their own figures are not fit for purpose. I personally feel this government is obsessed with lowering net migration figures. It is bizarre then, that the figures are just very blunt estimates anyway. Instead of spending money on vans telling illegal immigrants to 'go home' i feel the money should be spent on devising a more accurate system of recording data. Many citizens here are completely unaware that the 515'000 migrants and 352'000 emigrants figure per year is not an accurate recording but just guesswork. Yet these figures are often used by UKip and the tories to scare people into thinking that the floodgates are open.
An 'amnesty' has been suggested. Not sure if this would be acceptable to a lot of the public who blindly believe certain politicians and tory rag newspapers.
However, it would be a tool to prosecute people who benefit the system by exploiting these people for cheap labour.
Slavery, even in it's most mildest form is something that belongs in history books.
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Illegal immigrants fall under the radar and simply can't claim benefits or work legitimately.
Illegal immigrants in the UK are refused healthcare if they can't pay?
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Go home vans :lol1: Are they really that stupid they think this works?
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Illegal immigrants fall under the radar and simply can't claim benefits or work legitimately.
Illegal immigrants in the UK are refused healthcare if they can't pay?
No, no one is refused healthcare. Healthcare is not exchanged for cash, only by private health companies. I was talking about the benefits that require a 50 page form to fill in. All the benefits that hand out cash.
Funny that healthcare is a benefit. It is taken for granted here. I'm sure it is seen as a 'right' by many people.
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Illegal immigrants fall under the radar and simply can't claim benefits or work legitimately.
Illegal immigrants in the UK are refused healthcare if they can't pay?
No, no one is refused healthcare. Healthcare is not exchanged for cash, only by private health companies. I was talking about the benefits that require a 50 page form to fill in. All the benefits that hand out cash.
Funny that healthcare is a benefit. It is taken for granted here. I'm sure it is seen as a 'right' by many people.
I see. If illegal immigrants are using your medical services, then they are in fact taxing your system. And I think the vans are intended for the English speaking, giving them a hotline to report the illegals. That probably does work. Unless of course that number is really for illegals to get help going home. :laugh:
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They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.
Bodie means things like job seekers allowance etc (I presume), where they're given a set amount of money per week/month
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Illegal immigrants fall under the radar and simply can't claim benefits or work legitimately.
Illegal immigrants in the UK are refused healthcare if they can't pay?
No, no one is refused healthcare. Healthcare is not exchanged for cash, only by private health companies. I was talking about the benefits that require a 50 page form to fill in. All the benefits that hand out cash.
Funny that healthcare is a benefit. It is taken for granted here. I'm sure it is seen as a 'right' by many people.
I see. If illegal immigrants are using your medical services, then they are in fact taxing your system. And I think the vans are intended for the English speaking, giving them a hotline to report the illegals. That probably does work. Unless of course that number is really for illegals to get help going home. :laugh:
The wording on the vans:
"In the UK illegally?"
"Go home or face arrest"
I think it is a direct request to illegal immigrants.
Your supposition that they are targeting UK English speaking nationals to report instances of illegal imigration would be more logical and common sense. I don't think that is what is going on here.
It would be interesting to have figures showing the cost of healthcare these people actually drain and compare with the costs of unpaid taxes made by unscrupulous bosses and owners of sweat shops.
I really have no idea of the amounts. I would prefer to target the bosses of sweat shops and people who keep illegal immigrants as nanny's and domestic staff.
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:agreed:
I don't have the figures - although if I wasn't so lazy, I guess I could look them up lol - but tax avoidance costs the government more than benefit fraud etc, by a HUGE amount
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance)
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I don't know how much immigrants cost the NHS, but I would guess it's no way NEAR what people think it is.
Especially as most ILLEGAL immigrants are gonna try and keep their head down and away from officials.
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They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.
Bodie means things like job seekers allowance etc (I presume), where they're given a set amount of money per week/month
Yes Adam is right. The term 'on benefit' over here relates to such payments.
btw, i should point out that hospital and doctor services are free but prescriptions are not. You do have to be on benefit, under 16 or over 65 to get free meds.
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Although you still don't have to actually pay for the medication, just the prescription, which is about £8 I think?
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In Sweden you would get arrested for those vans. We should be grateful that illiterates, islamists and criminals want to come and live on Swedish taxpayers. Sweden has no culture of its own, we can thank the immigrants for everything.
Yes, that is in principle what the politicians, except the nationalists and nazis, say. They do say that with "no Swedish culture" and "being thankful to the immigrants" literally.
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You wouldn't get arrested for it here becuase it's our own GOVERNMENT that's doing it :P
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Oh :-\
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The guardian article was interesting and explained much to people like me who have been a bit slow to realise the extent to which the public is lied to.
Also going back to healthcare, whilst it would be relatively easy to go to A&E as a one off and give a bum name, it would not be the case of treating a long term illness.
When illegal immigrants are caught and detained (sometimes for months maybe years) they have access to healthcare, anyway. The fact that they are milking our nhs is not a legitimate concern for most people. Sure, certain papers or political parties may delude some people with that notion.
The way I see it - once again the vulnerable and poorest members of society are being blamed for the current economic situation. Easy to do that, by those fat cat tax evaders. Very brave. In the nineties it was 'single mothers'.
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Yeah, typical Tory tactics - get the middle class to turn on the poor and the poor to turn on each other, so no one notices who the real criminals are.
I saw something recently that was about the myths the British public believe. ie that welfare costs much more than it does, that msost people on benefits are lazy slobs etc. People really do believe all the shit you get in the Daily Mail etc. And this government is doing everything it can to encourage those beliefs.
Although their own propaganda is kind of working against them for a minority of their voters who are going over to ukip instead lol
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Although you still don't have to actually pay for the medication, just the prescription, which is about £8 I think?
£7.85 but that is per item. A prescription listing several items can come to thirty quid plus. A struggle to find for a lot of working people. Completely unaffordable to an illegal immigrant i would imagine.
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Yeah I hadn't thought of that.
I am considering cutting down on my meds to try and save a little money there. It's not a lot, and if I really felt I needed my medication a lot, I wouldn't. But I'm not entirely sure I need to be on meds anymore, so £8 every couple weeks adds up. I'm not earning much at all atm.
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Yeah, typical Tory tactics - get the middle class to turn on the poor and the poor to turn on each other, so no one notices who the real criminals are.
I saw something recently that was about the myths the British public believe. ie that welfare costs much more than it does, that msost people on benefits are lazy slobs etc. People really do believe all the shit you get in the Daily Mail etc. And this government is doing everything it can to encourage those beliefs.
Although their own propaganda is kind of working against them for a minority of their voters who are going over to ukip instead lol
Have to say that it was due to your referencing about the Daily Mail, Adam, which gave me cause to examine it more closely. I was completely unaware. It ought to have a warning on the cover, or maybe a coating of slime to indicate to normal unsuspecting people it is full of utter bullshit. Not just slimy bullshit like, for example The Sunday Sport (lol) but real damaging and dangerous misleading articles.
The Daily Mail is the lowest of the low.
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Exactly, that's the difference between the Daily Mail and the the really dodgy ones like the Sun etc - everyone KNOWS the Sun is just full of filth, even the Sun knows it lol, but people seem to actually think the Daily Mail is a "proper" newspaper. It's awful.
And I'm glad my ranting has been cause for someone else to notice how evil they are haha :D
It's so popular as well, that it's actually dangerous. On a personal level, I find their weird vendetta against trans people absolutely abhorrent (apparently the DM publish something like 8 times as many trans-related articles as any of the other UK newspapers)
But it's the subtly racist stuff and especially the articles about people on benefits that probably have the most dangerous consequences.
Also they constantly post stuff which is literally BULLSHIT. ie "facts" that are actually wrong. And they're called up on it, but only among people who already know what they're like, so the people reading it and believing it don't realise.
Even as a harmless example, when they published the article about my cat and my brother, they MADE UP quotes from my mum lol. Stuff she never even said. Which was just funny in that case, but when they make up statistics etc just to fuel their own hate-filled agenda, it actually affects people's lives.
I could rant about the Daily Mail all day. I'll stop now lol
I have a tshirt that says on it, "I'm the one the Daily Mail warned you about" :laugh:
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Well, I am spreading the message too, now.
In fact i have pointed out things about it to other people saying stuff like "you are gullible etc"
Of course, not mentioning the fact that 12 months ago i was completely in the dark.
You are right, there is so much hate fueled bullshit and I have no idea why they have such an agenda. No integrity, whatsoever. Totally biased.
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That's good that you are spreading the message too. People sometimes ask me why I bother, when it makes no difference. But if it makes one or two other people wonder about it and check it out, then that's good enough. Also I just like to rant about it haha
But yeh, they definitely have their own agenda, when comes thru when you realise what they're like - you will see it easily whenever you view their website now. And they don't even care how accurate or inaccurate their reporting is.
Also if you ever want a laugh (although be careful, you can also get very pissed off by it :laugh: ) try reading the comments section at the end of certain articles. Daily Mail readers are almost a parody of themselves on there
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They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.
It's a human right here too. That's why illegals are allowed to tax our system. If there were anyway to stop that, we wouldn't even need Obama's promises. People in Europe truly seem to believe their medical is free. That's so weird. Too many takers who never give can bankrupt a system.
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How?
It is free.
We understand that it is funded from taxes
It is still free at the point of use though, regardless of wtherher or not you pay taxes
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean
We have free healthcare in the UK
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btw Europe is a big place lol. Lots of countries. Lots of different types of healthcare
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How?
It is free.
We understand that it is funded from taxes
It is still free at the point of use though, regardless of wtherher or not you pay taxes
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean
We have free healthcare in the UK
Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes; they only take from the system, when they could otherwise give. A large influx of illegals means higher taxes for all the legal citizens, in order to care for the illegals. Those people should become legal citizens and pay their share like everyone else.
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I don't have much to add, except that I agree with Bod and Adam 100%. This is just wrong. And the Daily Mail is a vile rag, made for bigots and morons.
It seems that the tories are doing this to appease its (even)more bigoted supporters, and attempt to out-racist UKIP.
In doing so though, it is further alienating the Scottish, who will soon be voting on independence.
At the moment, it seems unlikely that the Scots will vote for independence. However, the more overtly racist and also anti-Europe, that the Tories become, the more the Scots are feeling disenfranchised and likely to vote for independence.
It would be the mother of all irony, if the tories in their zealous drive to "stand up for Britain," ended up disgusting the Scots so much, that the Scots vote to break up Britain.
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I don't understand your point. What does that have to do with Europeans thinking their healthcare is free when it's not (according to you)?
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The worst thing about Scottish independence for me would be that we'd lose so many Labour voters lol
We'd be fucked here in England and Wales then :laugh:
But yeh, they're trying to win over their ukip defectors
Disgusting. Even stronger than the immigration stuff now tho is the welfare stuff. As I was saying earlier, theyre trying to play off the poor against each other. Get them hating all those on benefits
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They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.
It's a human right here too. That's why illegals are allowed to tax our system. If there were anyway to stop that, we wouldn't even need Obama's promises. People in Europe truly seem to believe their medical is free. That's so weird. Too many takers who never give can bankrupt a system.
Everyone in Britain knows that we pay taxes to support the NHS. On that level, we all know it's not truly free.
However, It is free at point of use.
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How?
It is free.
We understand that it is funded from taxes
It is still free at the point of use though, regardless of wtherher or not you pay taxes
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean
We have free healthcare in the UK
Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes; they only take from the system, when they could otherwise give. A large influx of illegals means higher taxes for all the legal citizens, in order to care for the illegals. Those people should become legal citizens and pay their share like everyone else.
Im sure most of them would love to be legal citizens. The reason many of them are illegal, is because they can't enter our country legally, or become legal citizens.
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I don't understand your point. What does that have to do with Europeans thinking their healthcare is free when it's not (according to you)?
Oh, sorry, I though you were asking how it's possible immigrants could financially harm your system. I don't know what you mean, according to me; it's not free according to me. I said that's the way Europeans seem to think to me; it's my impression, yes. It's just like the US, only different. If I simply paid my insurance premiums to the government in taxes, it would be the same thing. People who can afford to pay in are expected to, and they to pay the ones who can't. It may seem free to, that's maybe even true for people on government assistance here too. I'm not sure.
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Im sure most of them would love to be legal citizens. The reason many of them are illegal, is because they can't enter our country legally, or become legal citizens.
Why not?
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How?
It is free.
We understand that it is funded from taxes
It is still free at the point of use though, regardless of wtherher or not you pay taxes
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean
We have free healthcare in the UK
Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes; they only take from the system, when they could otherwise give. A large influx of illegals means higher taxes for all the legal citizens, in order to care for the illegals. Those people should become legal citizens and pay their share like everyone else.
That is somewhat of a myth. Whether or not they pay taxes on their income depends on if they work for cash or work with fake papers. If they have fake papers they do pay taxes and social security under what ever name and number they are using which obviously they can not get back. They also pay sales tax,gas tax, the buildings they live in and the cars if registered get taxed also. They may not pay as much but to say they pay none is not true.
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I'd like to get back to the original topic a bit. This thread is very interesting to me, because this is the first ever seeing negative propaganda against the middle eastern immigration explosion occurring in the UK over the past decade. It's been my impression, Europeans have a bit of sympathy toward them, so this 'go home' van was quite a surprise. Is there also positive propaganda about you? Is the public generally encouraged to accept them?
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That is somewhat of a myth. Whether or not they pay taxes on their income depends on if they work for cash or work with fake papers. If they have fake papers they do pay taxes and social security under what ever name and number they are using which obviously they can not get back. They also pay sales tax,gas tax, the buildings they live in and the cars if registered get taxed also. They may not pay as much but to say they pay none is not true.
Yes, that's a good point. Are the fake visa papers still that easy? Was thinking it's not that common anymore.
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Im sure most of them would love to be legal citizens. The reason many of them are illegal, is because they can't enter our country legally, or become legal citizens.
Why not?
Immigration into Britain is controlled. People from outside the EEC cant just set up home in Britain. With the exception of certain countries, I think immigrants need to apply for asylum. If they fail to gain asylum, they have to leave. Many don't leave, and become illegal immigrants.
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thanks. Didn't know that. I imagine a lot of war refugees are gaining asylum.
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They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.
It's a human right here too. That's why illegals are allowed to tax our system. If there were anyway to stop that, we wouldn't even need Obama's promises. People in Europe truly seem to believe their medical is free. That's so weird. Too many takers who never give can bankrupt a system.
Everyone in Britain knows that we pay taxes to support the NHS. On that level, we all know it's not truly free.
However, It is free at point of use.
This
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That is somewhat of a myth. Whether or not they pay taxes on their income depends on if they work for cash or work with fake papers. If they have fake papers they do pay taxes and social security under what ever name and number they are using which obviously they can not get back. They also pay sales tax,gas tax, the buildings they live in and the cars if registered get taxed also. They may not pay as much but to say they pay none is not true.
Yes, that's a good point. Are the fake visa papers still that easy? Was thinking it's not that common anymore.
Depending on where you want to work and how close they check them. Some employers look the other way in order to get cheap labor.
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I don't understand your point. What does that have to do with Europeans thinking their healthcare is free when it's not (according to you)?
Oh, sorry, I though you were asking how it's possible immigrants could financially harm your system. I don't know what you mean, according to me; it's not free according to me. I said that's the way Europeans seem to think to me; it's my impression, yes. It's just like the US, only different. If I simply paid my insurance premiums to the government in taxes, it would be the same thing. People who can afford to pay in are expected to, and they to pay the ones who can't. It may seem free to, that's maybe even true for people on government assistance here too. I'm not sure.
Ah, looks like we both misundersood each other then haha
Nah, I understand how illegal immigrants can harm the system financially.
It was where you said that most europeans seem to think their healthcare is free and that that is strange to you. That's what I didn't understand. I know you don't think it's free - but you seemed to be saying that europeans don't understand that our healthcare is paid by taxes or something. No. It is free. We know that it is paid for by taxes, so in that sense of course it's not free. But as odeon said, technically nothing is free. It is free in the sense that we mean it to be though - in that, even if you don't pay taxes yourself, you still get healthcare without having to pay. In that sense, it is free. We aren't stupid - we know how our healthcare is funded
The point is that ANYONE in this country has access to all the healthcare they need. Regardless of money or insurance or premiums or taxes
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I'd like to get back to the original topic a bit. This thread is very interesting to me, because this is the first ever seeing negative propaganda against the middle eastern immigration explosion occurring in the UK over the past decade. It's been my impression, Europeans have a bit of sympathy toward them, so this 'go home' van was quite a surprise. Is there also positive propaganda about you? Is the public generally encouraged to accept them?
Positive propaganda about you? About who?
You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack :laugh:
There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.
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Access to healthcare for all seems to go down the drain here. Now even babies need an ID to get treatment or appointments in some hospitals. WTF. The age where you are obliged to wear an official ID (Passport, European ID card, or Drivers Licence) with you is 14. But if you want medical care, you need it from birth on. Or insurances have the right not to pay.
Clearly an action to prevent illegal immigrants using healthcare.
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Positive propaganda about you? About who?
You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack :laugh:
There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.
Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?
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thanks. Didn't know that. I imagine a lot of war refugees are gaining asylum.
Yes. We have a lot of Somalis, Afghans, Iraqi Kurds, etc.
I'd like to get back to the original topic a bit. This thread is very interesting to me, because this is the first ever seeing negative propaganda against the middle eastern immigration explosion occurring in the UK over the past decade. It's been my impression, Europeans have a bit of sympathy toward them, so this 'go home' van was quite a surprise. Is there also positive propaganda about you? Is the public generally encouraged to accept them?
I cant speak for Europeans. Europe isn't really a single entity at all. Its nothing like the "United States of Europe," as some people try and claim.
Some of the Eastern European countries are deeply racist, while a lot of the more western ones are far less racist.
In Britain, I would say opinion is divided. A lot of us have sympathy for immigrants, but a lot of the population are dead against them. Most people, even the more racist ones, agree that we should allow in genuine refugees, who will be persecuted if they go home.
As for propaganda, I would say it partly depends on who's in power, and what section of the population they want to appeal to, at any given time.
Labour are generally less anti-immigration, but they often have to court the core Conservative voters, by trying to appear more hardline on immigrants.
Conservatives are generally quite anti-immigration, but at the moment, we have a new party, UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party.) They are really nasty, rather racist, and totally anti-Europe. They are stealing a lot of the Conservatives core vote, which is terrifying the Conservatives, and they are now becoming even more anti-immigration, and anti-Europe, in an attempt to compete with UKIP.
Sorry if thats a bit too long and rambling :laugh:
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Haha positive propaganda about you personally? Sorry, it seems we are confusing each other again :laugh:
No, I was quoting you there. You said "positive propaganda about you" and I didnt know who the "you" meant
The mainstream media here (I'm only talking about the UK here, dunno about the rest of europe, altho I;d guess it's similar) are mostly against immigration
For example in the UK, the Guardian and the Independent are sensible about things, but most of the other newspapers jump on the anti-immigration bandwagon and do it a lot. Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, as well as the trashy papers like the SUn and the Star and the News of the World, they're virtually all anti-immigration
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Sorry if thats a bit too long and rambling :laugh:
Not at all. Very informative. Thanks, butterflies. :)
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That's a good explanation butterfflies.
and I'd also add that the least anti-immigration of our main parties in recent years (the Lib Dems) have kind of died since the last election. So now there's even less opposition to the anti-immigration people
Although obviously Labour are the least anti-immigration out of Labour and Tories
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Haha positive propaganda about you personally? Sorry, it seems we are confusing each other again :laugh:
No, I was quoting you there. You said "positive propaganda about you" and I didnt know who the "you" meant
The mainstream media here (I'm only talking about the UK here, dunno about the rest of europe, altho I;d guess it's similar) are mostly against immigration
For example in the UK, the Guardian and the Independent are sensible about things, but most of the other newspapers jump on the anti-immigration bandwagon and do it a lot. Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph, as well as the trashy papers like the SUn and the Star and the News of the World, they're virtually all anti-immigration
:laugh: Oh, I see what I did now. Ha, I said you: about you, around you. around about you. The propaganda in and around the world about you :laugh:
Thanks to you too, Adam. Very informative.
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I'd also add that over here (and also in France and other western european countries from what I can gather) much of the immigration issue is linked in with "Muslims"
A lot of the thicker racists seem to view asians as being synonymous with muslims
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Positive propaganda about you? About who?
You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack :laugh:
There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.
Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?
Sorry. I had thought you were asking about government propaganda, rather than media propaganda. My last post was about government propaganda.
The right-wing media, like the Daily Mail, has horrid propaganda about immigration. Pretty heavy handed stuff.
The left wing media is pretty pro-immigration, or at least not anti-immigration. I suppose it has fairly pro-immigration propaganda.
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I have no real problems with a lot of illegal immigrants. I have problems for the people who exploit them.
I've more problems with people who are already native to this country, ie. Irish gypsies. Fucking knackers.
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Oh shit I see what you meant now Jack. about as in around. Not about as in related to. Ha. Makes sense now. Sorry about that
And I can assure you there is no negative propaganda about you personally Jack. No positive propaganda about you either tho, sorry :P
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I have no real problems with a lot of illegal immigrants. I have problems for the people who exploit them.
I've more problems with people who are already native to this country, ie. Irish gypsies. Fucking knackers.
That's what we try and get across to people over here too - would you rather have a load of hard working, tax paying immigrants or a bunch of lazy British-born slobs? People don't seem to get it :laugh:
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Oh shit I see what you meant now Jack. about as in around. Not about as in related to. Ha. Makes sense now. Sorry about that
And I can assure you there is no negative propaganda about you personally Jack. No positive propaganda about you either tho, sorry :P
:laugh:
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I just typed "Daily Mail immigration" into google, and this was the first article that popped up. Its only 3 days old. It's not about illegal immigrants, but about legal ones from Eastern Europe.
In no way, one of the Mails nastier articles, but a sample of the general tone of the paper.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2379478/Revealed-How-500-000-immigrants-given-social-housing-decade-number-families-waiting-list-hits-record-high.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2379478/Revealed-How-500-000-immigrants-given-social-housing-decade-number-families-waiting-list-hits-record-high.html)
Revealed: How 500,000 immigrants have been given social housing in last decade as number of families on waiting list hits record high
*1.8million families are now on the waiting list on social housing
*Nearly 470,000 of the 4million migrants who arrived in the last ten years were given council homes
*David Cameron launched plans to give local people priority on waiting lists
*Clampdown will see migrants only become eligible for social housing after two years in the UK
Nearly half a million immigrants have been given taxpayer-funded homes over the past decade.
The revelation comes as the number of families on the waiting list for social housing hits a record 1.8million. Most are British born.
Of the four million migrants who arrived between 2001 and 2011, 469,843 were allocated council or housing association properties.
Around 1.2million foreigners now live in social housing – one in eight of the total. In London the figure is thought to be as high as one in five.
The national census statistics, which were released yesterday, highlight fears about increased pressure on public services when Romanians and Bulgarians win free access to jobs in this country in January.
The figures also show the effects of the large-scale immigration encouraged by the Tony Blair and Gordon Brown governments.
According to the census, 105,506 of the immigrants who found social housing after 2001 were from Eastern European states that joined the EU in 2004, most of them Poles.
In the mid-2000s, Whitehall officials estimated that the cost to taxpayers of maintaining a single social housing unit was £620 a year.
Assuming each unit is occupied by four people, that would put the housing costs of post-2001 migrants at between £5billion and £8billion.
Sir Andrew Green, of the MigrationWatch think-tank, said: ‘The figures serve to underline the huge costs of mass immigration – costs often ignored by the immigration lobby.’
In 2009, a report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission claimed there was ‘no evidence to support the perception that new migrants are getting priority over UK-born residents’.
The research found no evidence of abuse of the system such as queue jumping or providing false information.
But in March David Cameron announced a clampdown, including plans for a local residence test.
Local people will be given priority on waiting lists for social housing and migrants will become eligible only after two years.
Councils say the fundamental flaw in the plan is they will still be obliged to help any EU migrants who present themselves as homeless.
Mike Jones, of the Local Government Association, says: ‘If we don’t house them that means we are going to have to deal with them under the homeless laws which cost us a great deal more.’
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Positive propaganda about you? About who?
You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack :laugh:
There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.
Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?
Sorry. I had thought you were asking about government propaganda, rather than media propaganda. My last post was about government propaganda.
The right-wing media, like the Daily Mail, has horrid propaganda about immigration. Pretty heavy handed stuff.
The left wing media is pretty pro-immigration, or at least not anti-immigration. I suppose it has fairly pro-immigration propaganda.
Your answer was good. On really thinking about it, certan types of media should be expected to have some negative. It was probably the giant moving billboard that really twisted me. Have seen some negative things said by people in the UK, but they were racist views rather than protectionist views. Have never gotten the impression of the UK being protectionist to the extreme some in the US can be, so many countries so close and working together. Do you find the negative to be more racism than protectionism?
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I just typed "Daily Mail immigration" into google, and this was the first article that popped up. Its only 3 days old. It's not about illegal immigrants, but about legal ones from Eastern Europe.
There's the protectionism.
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Positive propaganda about you? About who?
You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack :laugh:
There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.
Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?
Sorry. I had thought you were asking about government propaganda, rather than media propaganda. My last post was about government propaganda.
The right-wing media, like the Daily Mail, has horrid propaganda about immigration. Pretty heavy handed stuff.
The left wing media is pretty pro-immigration, or at least not anti-immigration. I suppose it has fairly pro-immigration propaganda.
Your answer was good. On really thinking about it, certan types of media should be expected to have some negative. It was probably the giant moving billboard that really twisted me. Have seen some negative things said by people in the UK, but they were racist views rather than protectionist views. Have never gotten the impression of the UK being protectionist to the extreme some in the US can be, so many countries so close and working together. Do you find the negative to be more racism than protectionism?
Its both, in equal measures. Protectionism is so much more socially acceptable, and so a closet racist will dress their racism up as protectionism.
A common statement from a closet racist might be, "I'm not racist, but I cant stand those foreigners coming over here, and stealing our jobs."
Even the BNP (British National Party,) who are a true racist party, far beyond even UKIP, try to dress their racism up as protectionism. Im sure they even promoted some guy who had an Asian wife, into a high position, just to show how non-racist they are.
On a slightly different point, its important to remember that the UK is not one country, but a union of two countries, plus several other entities. Attitudes vary across the different parts of UK.
The South of England is a very over-populated place, and a lot of their anti-immigration feelings are possibly protectionist. House prices are high, and its often hard for average families to live there. I think they have some justification in feeling annoyed that foreigners are coming over, and jumping the housing queue, and pushing up rents.
Scotland is a lot less densely populated, with large, virtually empty tower blocks or estates to put the immigrants into. Property prices are low in Scotland, and Scotland's pretty relaxed about immigration. I think many Scots feel that immigrants help the economy by taking jobs that the locals dont want, and the fact that they spend their money in Scotland further boosts the economy, creating jobs.
The vast majority of the property I own is in Scotland, and I find immigrants a godsend. They revitalize dying areas, or at least stop the areas from dying. They also fill up properties that might otherwise be empty. They help to keep the rental market from falling.
Northern Ireland is a total basket case. It has loads of housing lying empty with plummeting house prices and rent, lots of shop units lying empty, and businesses are struggling to make money. It could really use more people to bolster the economy, but the people of N.Ireland are just totally racist. They are generally too ignorant to realize how much they need immigration, and just hate the thought of anyone different to them living here.
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Its both, in equal measures. Protectionism is so much more socially acceptable, and so a closet racist will dress their racism up as protectionism.
A common statement from a closet racist might be, "I'm not racist, but I cant stand those foreigners coming over here, and stealing our jobs."
Even the BNP (British National Party,) who are a true racist party, far beyond even UKIP, try to dress their racism up as protectionism. Im sure they even promoted some guy who had an Asian wife, into a high position, just to show how non-racist they are.
On a slightly different point, its important to remember that the UK is not one country, but a union of two countries, plus several other entities. Attitudes vary across the different parts of UK.
The South of England is a very over-populated place, and a lot of their anti-immigration feelings are possibly protectionist. House prices are high, and its often hard for average families to live there. I think they have some justification in feeling annoyed that foreigners are coming over, and jumping the housing queue, and pushing up rents.
Scotland is a lot less densely populated, with large, virtually empty tower blocks or estates to put the immigrants into. Property prices are low in Scotland, and Scotland's pretty relaxed about immigration. I think many Scots feel that immigrants help the economy by taking jobs that the locals dont want, and the fact that they spend their money in Scotland further boosts the economy, creating jobs.
The vast majority of the property I own is in Scotland, and I find immigrants a godsend. They revitalize dying areas, or at least stop the areas from dying. They also fill up properties that might otherwise be empty. They help to keep the rental market from falling.
Northern Ireland is a total basket case. It has loads of housing lying empty with plummeting house prices and rent, lots of shop units lying empty, and businesses are struggling to make money. It could really use more people to bolster the economy, but the people of N.Ireland are just totally racist. They are generally too ignorant to realize how much they need immigration, and just hate the thought of anyone different to them living here.
Sounds like Scotland could use some positive propaganda. :laugh: If that's right, it seems odd immigrants seeking asylum aren't encouraged, if not instructed, to settle in places more fitting.
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Sounds like Scotland could use some positive propaganda. :laugh: If that's right, it seems odd immigrants seeking asylum aren't encouraged, if not instructed, to settle in places more fitting.
Scotland is fine with immigrants, and the propaganda in Scotland is fairly pro-immigration. It's N.Ireland that needs the positive propaganda.
I totally agree about immigrants being encouraged to live in more suitable places. Shoehorning more and more immigrants into the South of England is a recipe for disaster.
I think it would be great to just ignore the idiots in N.Ireland, and bring over a lot of unwanted immigrants from England.
Thing is though, the politicians who run N.Ireland are the biggest bigots of them all, and they won't allow it :grrr:
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I totally agree about immigrants being encouraged to live in more suitable places. Shoehorning more and more immigrants into the South of England is a recipe for disaster.
Then again, the government might rather them thinly dispersed, so they don't cluster. They'll be more likely to assimilate to western culture, if they don't form their own little communities in empty areas of the continent. Sorry, that's my global conspiracy viewpoint talking.
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If anything we've had the opposite - government encouraging that.
And it has been a disaster, yes
You get communities full of immigrants and second generation immigrants, and they're always placed in the shitty run-down areas with the most crime.
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Can I just say about the difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants.
Every year, figures predict about 500'000 will arrive in the UK. These are not all illegal immigrants. Some will have European Union status. Some will apply for citizenship (this has been made more and more difficult) some will be students and granted temporary permits. Some will be Asylum seekers. Only a very small minority will be illegal. These are very vulnerable groups of people who have gone to great lengths just to arrive here.
http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/blog/it-happens-here-the-shocking-reality-of-modern-slavery-in-the-uk (http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/blog/it-happens-here-the-shocking-reality-of-modern-slavery-in-the-uk)
It Happens Here: the shocking reality of modern slavery in the UK
The Centre for Social Justice this week published its report on the tragedy and scandal of modern slavery in the UK. It reveals a hidden world of appalling exploitation of some of society’s weakest and most vulnerable, and calls on the Government to take a much more direct and aspirational lead on fighting this crime. It is too easy for the UK to be self-congratulating about its abolition legacy, but the CSJ has found that this historic ‘Wilberforce reputation’ rings tragically hollow today.
During the course of this 18-month review we have taken evidence from hundreds of people including police officers, social workers, NGO staff, local and national government officials and business leaders. Steered by our Working Group of experts from the Metropolitan Police, the voluntary sector, the legal profession and academia, our search to uncover the hidden disgrace of modern slavery took us all over the UK and abroad. We met with victims who shared stories of unimaginable brutality and violence. We met one victim who was trafficked by a Romanian gang, forced to work like a slave and to live in a shed on his captor’s property.He described the unthinkable abuse he was subjected to before he was able to escape.
The scale of this problem is unknown; Government figures suggesting that over 2,000 people were victims of human trafficking in 2011 are the tip of the iceberg.
The Government’s claim that the measures it has in place to tackle slavery are adequate is a depressing reflection of the lack of ambition from our country’s leaders.
Our report, It Happens Here, sets out a number of key recommendations, shaped by our evidence, to inspire the UK to take a radical new approach to this crime and create an environment which is hostile to perpetrators and compassionate to victims.
The appointment of an Anti-Slavery Commissioner is top of the agenda: someone to bring consistency of leadership (the remit of this problem currently sits with the Immigration Minister; there have been nine different Ministers since 1999), to hold government to account and to highlight the areas where the UK can and must improve its response.
The CSJ has been shocked by the pervasive misunderstanding of modern slavery as an issue of immigration; too often vulnerable victims of modern slavery who have been trafficked from abroad are treated first as illegal immigrants. This misunderstanding permeates the UK’s response, from government, to local authorities to police; the CSJ has heard evidence of victims of modern slavery being arrested and imprisoned for immigration offences. In one case, a victim only told of her experience of modern slavery when she was in detention, having been too terrified to disclose her story earlier; she was still detained for over four months before she was given any form of support.
Treating modern slavery as an immigration problem is wrong, unfair, and utterly counter to a victim-centred approach. The UK Border Agency plays far too prominent a role in deciding whether someone has been trafficked into modern slavery; we recommend that this involvement is urgently decreased.
A radical overhaul of support for survivors of this abuse is a third major recommendation. Reintegration and the rebuilding of lives must be an absolute priority; the current system puts far too little emphasis on outcomes for survivors, and must be vastly improved if these individuals are to be given a second chance at an independent, secure and self-sufficient life.
The CSJ works to give voice to the most marginalised in our communities, putting social justice at the heart of the British political system to create a society where nobody is left behind. Victims of modern slavery are some of the most faceless, voiceless, helpless people we have in the country. It is time to give them a voice.
My point is many of these 'illegal immigrants' (even the term itself promotes hostility) are sadly treated as slaves. It is the people who are exploiting these people who are raping the tax system.
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It really is terrible that they're being taken advantage. It's hard to understand why there are illegals, who have gone to great lengths to arrive and can go no further. Why are they not granted asylum/temporary permits?
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Because then we'd effectively have open doors
And that would never go down well
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In Sweden they grant illegal immigrants permanent permits. It really doesn't go down well. Well, down it goes :thumbdn:
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Considering we all have to live on planet earth, why should anybody "go home?" I guess what I'm really getting at is people have to live somewhere. they say the same thing to homeless people but instead of 'go home' its 'get a home.' When will people just leave others alone and let people actually live?
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(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00434/132988164__434051c.jpg)
GO HOME Is the message!
It is part of a new campaign to clamp down on illegal immigrants in the UK.
Is it dumb?
My thoughts
1. Can the majority of illegal immigrants read English that well?
2. The ones that can, how many do you think are going to follow the instructions and go home?
3. At £15K per van they are not going to be cost effective.
4. Was there a similar campaign used by Nazi's just before WWII with a similar go home message. It could be offensive to holocaust survivors.
5. Considering some of these people have been threatened and maybe tortured and have possibly had a terrible journey getting here, are they really going to be worried by a van?
6. People get confused between immigrants and illegal immigrants. I have often heard "bloody illegal immigrants coming here and taking our jobs and claiming benefit" This is simply not true. Yes there are many valid immigrants who work or claim benefit. Illegal immigrants fall under the radar and simply can't claim benefits or work legitimately.
7. Illegal immigrants are often employed by unscrupulous people to work as slaves. They are not free. They get paid a pittance. Their quality of life is poor. They are victims.
8. If the government feel the need to 'target' someone, I feel they should be targeting these people who harbour illegal immigrants just so they get cheap labour.
Well OK but how to 'deal' with the problem of immigration, then? First problem is there are no current figures. Only estimates on how many UK residents emigrate and how many migrants are entering - legit or not. The government admit their own figures are not fit for purpose. I personally feel this government is obsessed with lowering net migration figures. It is bizarre then, that the figures are just very blunt estimates anyway. Instead of spending money on vans telling illegal immigrants to 'go home' i feel the money should be spent on devising a more accurate system of recording data. Many citizens here are completely unaware that the 515'000 migrants and 352'000 emigrants figure per year is not an accurate recording but just guesswork. Yet these figures are often used by UKip and the tories to scare people into thinking that the floodgates are open.
An 'amnesty' has been suggested. Not sure if this would be acceptable to a lot of the public who blindly believe certain politicians and tory rag newspapers.
However, it would be a tool to prosecute people who benefit the system by exploiting these people for cheap labour.
Slavery, even in it's most mildest form is something that belongs in history books.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/934606_489015544514456_1514953225_n.jpg)
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Considering we all have to live on planet earth, why should anybody "go home?" I guess what I'm really getting at is people have to live somewhere. they say the same thing to homeless people but instead of 'go home' its 'get a home.' When will people just leave others alone and let people actually live?
You are basically right, but as long as we have this system, illegal immigrants cost money and resources.
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You think that's bad, soaf? Check this out. America has an actual clone of Nazi Germany's gestapo now.
http://nsi.ncirc.gov/resources.aspx (http://nsi.ncirc.gov/resources.aspx)
^No lie.
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Because then we'd effectively have open doors
And that would never go down well
It appears the doors are open; half a million people per year, yet only a small minority are illegal. ~That's what she said. I assume it's probably much harder for some people from outside the UK to enter, those people who aren't seeking asylum. Is there a common factor among the majority of the illegals? Why don't those few fill the criteria? I can't see any reason for anyone to be there illegally, unless they're criminals or possibly lazy about the rules followed to be there legally.
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Because then we'd effectively have open doors
And that would never go down well
It appears the doors are open; half a million people per year, yet only a small minority are illegal. ~That's what she said. I assume it's probably much harder for some people from outside the UK to enter, those people who aren't seeking asylum. Is there a common factor among the majority of the illegals? Why don't those few fill the criteria? I can't see any reason for anyone to be there illegally, unless they're criminals or possibly lazy about the rules followed to be there legally.
I can't find the exact rules, and TBH, I dont really know the rules myself. They are something like this though:
All members of the European Economic Area can move freely within Europe. That means that many Eastern Europeans can freely enter Britain. Some people are annoyed that people from poor countries like Bulgaria can freely move to Britain.
Most people from outwith Europe must apply for a visa. I think there are different types of visa. Some types only allow you to stay a short time, and not allow you to work or claim benefits. Others allow you to stay long-term, and to work and claim benefits.
Its easy to get a visitors visa, that allows you to come to Britain for a short time. Many people come on a visitors visa, and just never leave, often working illegally. Its harder to get a long-term visa that allows you to work. If you come from a poor country with no ties to Britain, and you have no skills that are seen as valuable to Britain, you dont have too much chance of getting a long-term visa.
If you dont get a visa, then the other option is to apply for asylum. That is only granted to people who are at "risk of persecution" in their homeland. It seems that different people have different interpretations of that.
Another issue is that asylum seekers have to apply for asylum in the first "safe" country they enter. Someone could be denied asylum because they enter Britain, via France. If France is the first country that they arrive in, then the law says that they must apply for asylum in France. Many asylum seekers attempt to choose what country they gain asylum in.
Basically, many illegal immigrants are people who enter the country on short-term visas, and dont leave when the visa expires. Some illegal immigrants are people who applied for asylum and were refused, and they have chosen not to move on, but just stay here illegally.
I've probably missed some stuff out, and some of it might not be fully accurate. It seems surprisingly hard to find out the exact rules.
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The reason is that we don't just let anyone in.
So unless they're asylum seekers, that's often their only chance
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They don't arrive by official channels so they never see an 'official' whom they can make a claim of asylum to.
The quotes below are real life accounts from the UK Centre for Social Justice on their document 'slavery report' 2012
This one is interesting
Juju
Support workers have voiced their concerns at the control measure exerted predominantly on young
women from West Africa: juju. Often used in cases of sexual exploitation, juju is a tradition involving
superstition and witchcraft. It encompasses a range of rituals typically conducted by a witch doctor,
either to summon good fortune or to call upon evil spirits. It has been used to secure the obedience
of individuals before they are trafficked out of the country. Widespread belief in juju makes it an
effective tool of control for traffickers:
‘At the ritual, the woman is made to take oaths of allegiance, secrecy, confidentiality, and repayment
of the costs of her journey and other incidental expenses, as solely determined by the trafficker’.
39
Recent cases have exposed the effectiveness of juju as means of securing compliance. Osezua Osolase,
a resident of Northfleet, Kent, recruited and raped a number of orphans in Nigeria, performing juju
rituals which included cutting the young girls with a razor and taking their blood:
‘The native doctor cut the girls’ arms, drawing blood, and scarred their chests. He told them to swear
they would not run away, that they would work to pay back the money they owed and that they
would never tell who had helped them. The man then took locks of their head and pubic hair and
pared their finger and toe nails, warning them that he was keeping a part of them and if they broke
their word they would die’.
Osolase then brought the girls to the UK to sell them into the commercial sex industry. His victims
were told that they would be found and killed if they disclosed anything about their ordeal. The rituals
ensured that ‘invisible power’ was held over the young girls, allowing ‘control at whatever distance’.
41
Not only does this form of witchcraft render victims terrified and compliant with the abuse they face;
it also makes police investigation very difficult, since many will refuse to speak about their experience
even when they have been removed from their traffickers. Support providers have also told the CSJ
of some victims who have suffered night terrors and severe emotional trauma linked directly to juju
Constance was 15 years old when her mother died in her home country in Africa. After her mother’s
death, she was befriended by a neighbour who told her that she was going to be educated in the UK
and would then be given a job. In reality, he sold her to traffickers. A woman she didn’t know organised
documents for her and travelled with her to the UK. Upon her arrival she was taken to a house and was
told by a woman she had not met before that in order to repay her debt of £50,000 she would have to
sell her body for sex. She had no idea what the sum meant and initially refused to obey, but the woman
starved Constance until she had no choice. Constance was forced to work in numerous brothels and
forced to be available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. She was ‘rescued’ when the brothel she was
working in was raided by the police. She was arrested, spent the night in a police cell, was released in the
morning and told to go home. Disorientated and unsure where she was, she approached a member of
the public who directed her to an African church. The vicar and his wife allowed her to stay in the church.
She stayed there for a few weeks until she was eventually referred to a support organisation who then
referred her to the Refugee Council, as she told them she was a child. Constance was initially subject to an
age dispute by the UKBA, but social services later concluded that she was a child, and took her into care
A 53-year-old Romanian man named Josef was working as an
electrician in Romania. In March 2010 he became unemployed
and was looking for work; he met and was given work by
another Romanian man. Josef was badly treated and assaulted
from the outset of their working relationship. In October 2010,
Josef travelled with his employers to the UK. He was threatened
with violence by them if he did not do as they said. When he
got to the UK, Josef was taken to a house and forced to live in
the shed in the garden. This shed had no heating or lighting. He
was given no food or bedding and was forced to use a hole in
the ground as a lavatory. Josef was then forced to work for the
family, stealing and doing work around the house.
In December 2010 Josef was in the shed whilst there was a
party taking place in the house. During the party he went to
the back of the house and stood at the window to ask some
of the guests for food, but was refused. He returned to the
shed and went to sleep. A short while later he woke up to find two of the men standing over him.
They kicked and punched him repeatedly telling him he should not have asked for food, and then
made him eat his own faeces. He was then raped. Josef was later taken to hospital with serious injuries,
but the men responsible for the attack attended with him and, because Josef could speak no English,
translated only what they wanted the doctor to hear and manipulated his words. In March 2011 Josef
finally found a chance to go to the police. He was then housed at a safe location outside London. All
four perpetrators were convicted of human trafficking into the UK for exploitation under section 4
of the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants) Act 2004 and were sentenced to terms of
imprisonment between nine and 13 and a half years.
Why would anybody want to come here with no status, as an 'illegal'. It is a myth that these people are scamming the benefits system. The reality is that they see very little money, and some get sweet FA.
There is most often someone standing behind them making money. They are the ones that should be subject to government crackdowns.
The other problem is, when illegal immigrants are found they are often arrested and treated as criminals when they should be treated as victims of slavery.
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They don't arrive by official channels so they never see an 'official' whom they can make a claim of asylum to.
What are official and unofficial channels? They can't claim asylum once already inside?
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They come in the back of vans crossing the channel etc
So not through immigration or anything
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The reason is that we don't just let anyone in.
So unless they're asylum seekers, that's often their only chance
So then the majority of illegals aren't middle eastern?
They come in the back of vans crossing the channel etc
So not through immigration or anything
Can they claim asylum if they've already entered through unofficial channels? Why wouldn't they use the official channel?
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Because unless they're gonna face persecution in their home country, they woudln't be eligible for asylum, and there are limited numbers of immigrants we officially let in
So if they're not gonna be ABLE to get in officially, they'll come in unofficially instead
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Then the illegals are wanted for crimes in other countries?
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No, why do you think that?
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There is most often someone standing behind them making money. They are the ones that should be subject to government crackdowns.
That's how a lot of the US abuse of immigrants was cleaned up here, making businesses more accountable, and making it easier for people to get work visas.
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No, why do you think that?
You said the only way in is asylum, and they can't gain asylum if they face persecution. That makes sense; no one expects any government to abed people wanted elsewhere.
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Sorry, adam. Not much sleep lately. was thinking prosecution. Why can't they gain asylum if they face persecution. That makes no sense at all.
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I just don't understand who are the illegals or why. No one has answered if they can seek asylum once they're already in. Is that all it would take? Leave and then enter through the proper channels?
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Sorry, adam. Not much sleep lately. was thinking prosecution. Why can't they gain asylum if they face persecution. That makes no sense at all.
I didn't say that... I said the opposite
Unless they are going to face persecution, they won't get asylum.
So if they're not facing any kind of persecution or fleeing war etc, then they're not going to be granted asylum and would have to come here another way
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I just don't understand who are the illegals or why. No one has answered if they can seek asylum once they're already in. Is that all it would take? Leave and then enter through the proper channels?
No because they're not all ELIGIBLE for asylum. As I said, if they're not facing persecution or anything, why would they be given asylum?
But as we don't let unlimited numbers in from outside the EU, they wouldn't necessarily be able to come in legally. That's who they are - people who want to live here but aren't able to come in legally and aren't asylum seekers
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I just don't understand who are the illegals or why. No one has answered if they can seek asylum once they're already in. Is that all it would take? Leave and then enter through the proper channels?
Anyone can claim for asylum. However, it will only be accepted if they face persecution in their homeland.
Someone already in Britain can claim asylum. In fact, an illegal immigrant could probably claim asylum, and if he proves that he faces persecution or that his life is in danger, would be granted asylum and become a legal immigrant.
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Thanks. :)
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If you're not gonna get asylum tho (ie there's no threat to you if you're sent back), then they're not gonna risk is, so they're gonna remain as illegal immirants
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If they're being victimized, then something should be done for them. The underground sex ring stuff is a world wide problem and preys wherever it can. It's so secretive, don't know how that could be addressed. Though there's probably a lot of illegals who are simply like the ones here, not being paid properly for their work.
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The reason is that we don't just let anyone in.
So unless they're asylum seekers, that's often their only chance
So then the majority of illegals aren't middle eastern?
They come in the back of vans crossing the channel etc
So not through immigration or anything
Can they claim asylum if they've already entered through unofficial channels? Why wouldn't they use the official channel?
Yes they can claim asylum if they have already entered. They will most likely be detained until a decision is made. The Home Secretary has the right to detain. This could be for a long time - maybe years.
Their immigration status takes precedent over the fact they are victims of slavery.
I have heard the government use terms like 'child prostitution' which is really a contradiction in terms. No child can consent to sexual acts. It is unlawful. They don't like to use the terms trafficking and slave, though, not in UK.
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Yes they can claim asylum if they have already entered. They will most likely be detained until a decision is made. The Home Secretary has the right to detain. This could be for a long time - maybe years.
UK government has illegals who have been detained for years? Why would they be detained for years for a decision to be made, when the decision of asylum is being made for other at an average rate of two-thousand people per day?
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Thinking that's incorrect.
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Yes they can claim asylum if they have already entered. They will most likely be detained until a decision is made. The Home Secretary has the right to detain. This could be for a long time - maybe years.
UK government has illegals who have been detained for years? Why would they be detained for years for a decision to be made, when the decision of asylum is being made for other at an average rate of two-thousand people per day?
It's true. We do have detention centres for immigrants. They even lock families up. People have committed suicide in these places, and people have compared the condition to being in jail.
Of course its wrong, and many people see it. I would imagine they were created to appease a certain section of our society.
I think the government makes some claim about how it is to fast-track the immigrants claim, but as Bod says, the wait can be years in some cases.
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If that's true, then it's criminal. Can't imagine UK government taking that sort of risk. Still, not really seeing it. Read a little; saw that all immigrants are detained, if even briefly, to be processed. Also read negative things about the poor condition of the detainment centers. Also read about immigrants who are jailed for crimes, then the government failed to deport them at the end of their sentence. Also read about a couple of immigrants who won a lawsuit for being detained too long...remembering six weeks; that may be wrong but it wasn't very long. Though didn't see anything about laws on the length of detaining immigrants. In the US it's a three month limit to either sort thing out or deport, otherwise they must be released.
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Ah, just found something from a few years back, some old statistics and something about a law created to fast-track and to avoid detaining children. About 10% detained for 1-2 years. Can't find anything current though. Is that getting better?
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Also, there are a series of appeals (Human Rights - Geneva) which can take literally years. The Government have no choice as European Court of Human Rights takes precedent over domestic law.
I read somewhere that it could take thirty years to clear the backlog.
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That sounds about right. It looks like there's been quite a few suits and there will be more; people suing for being locked in a single room for over a year when they're not criminals, some even children. That's messed up. Has it improved? Hard to find anything current.
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It is, but it is slow. The system need a massive cash injection and re organisation and retraining of it's border agencies. There is a much bigger focus on it now, and international interest.
It is not a public priority. The public are prone to be misled about these people.
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Summary: It doesn't matter where you are, your government doesn't give a shit about you, or humanity for that matter. Its a business now, and the only purpose of a business is to expand and defeat opposition.
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It's only a business if you privatise everything
Purpose of business is to make money and screw everyone else in the process. Which is why big companies should be involved in healthcare as little as possible
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It's only a business if you privatise everything
Purpose of business is to make money and screw everyone else in the process. Which is why big companies should be involved in healthcare as little as possible
LOL. So the only difference is that the business you seem to worship calls itself your government. I mean even private corporations pretend to care about you, and advertise on the mass media, blahblah. Yeah. The purpose of modern governments is to make money and screw everyone else over in the process. Exactly.
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It is, but it is slow. The system need a massive cash injection and re organisation and retraining of it's border agencies. There is a much bigger focus on it now, and international interest.
It is not a public priority. The public are prone to be misled about these people.
This was an interesting thread.
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It is, but it is slow. The system need a massive cash injection and re organisation and retraining of it's border agencies. There is a much bigger focus on it now, and international interest.
It is not a public priority. The public are prone to be misled about these people.
This was an interesting thread.
Have the immigrants gone home yet? :orly:
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
:GA:
Here is the Moomin, going to England. The Royal Navy is going out to sea.
:tea: :peace: :raining: :glug: :tea: :peace: :queenie: :beer:
:moomin:
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:runaway: I will run to the hills
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:runaway: I will run to the hills
The Moomin can follow. He lives in a valley anyways. :GA:
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
I think this is a wise course of action. :M
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
:GA:
Here is the Moomin, going to England. The Royal Navy is going out to sea.
:tea: :peace: :raining: :glug: :tea: :peace: :queenie: :beer:
:moomin:
I didn't see the Royal Navy until our very last day in London. There was a warship on the Thames with a helicopter lifting off from it, right outside where we lived.
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
:GA:
Here is the Moomin, going to England. The Royal Navy is going out to sea.
:tea: :peace: :raining: :glug: :tea: :peace: :queenie: :beer:
:moomin:
I didn't see the Royal Navy until our very last day in London. There was a warship on the Thames with a helicopter lifting off from it, right outside where we lived.
:arrr:
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
:GA:
Here is the Moomin, going to England. The Royal Navy is going out to sea.
:tea: :peace: :raining: :glug: :tea: :peace: :queenie: :beer:
:moomin:
I didn't see the Royal Navy until our very last day in London. There was a warship on the Thames with a helicopter lifting off from it, right outside where we lived.
:arrr:
It was pretty awesome, tbh. We don't have that kind of activity here.
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I got as far in as healthcare being taken for granted as a human right and stopped myself before I went off on a rant about the US being retarded.
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
Moomins are welcome everywhere! :moomin: :moomin: :moomin: They are model citizens!
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
Moomins are welcome everywhere! :moomin: :moomin: :moomin: They are model citizens!
We are! :moomin:
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
Moomins are welcome everywhere! :moomin: :moomin: :moomin: They are model citizens!
We are! :moomin:
Apparently, Moomins aren't welcome at the Landover Baptist Church (http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=61771). :tard:
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can they put imigrants IN the van?
:0
0:
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can they put imigrants IN the van?
:0
0:
Go on over and peek inside. It'll be fine. >:D
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can they put imigrants IN the van?
:0
0:
Go on over and peek inside. It'll be fine. >:D
Would CBC be planning mischief? :pie:
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can they put imigrants IN the van?
:0
0:
Go on over and peek inside. It'll be fine. >:D
Would CBC be planning mischief? :pie:
Heavens, no! I just think you should peek into the van, to reassure yourself. :angel:
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No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
Moomins are welcome everywhere! :moomin: :moomin: :moomin: They are model citizens!
We are! :moomin:
Apparently, Moomins aren't welcome at the Landover Baptist Church (http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=61771). :tard:
Seems like a fun board. Methinks a sock is in order. :moomin:
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^ I'd almost forgotten that Moomins are actually Moomintrolls. :moomin:
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Not sure I'd last very long but it should be fun.
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can they put imigrants IN the van?
:0
0:
Go on over and peek inside. It'll be fine. >:D
Would CBC be planning mischief? :pie:
Heavens, no! I just think you should peek into the van, to reassure yourself. :angel:
Perhaps CBC will give you candy if you get in the van. :orly:
No, the vans were resprayed by vandals and they now read 'welcome moomins'
Moomins are welcome everywhere! :moomin: :moomin: :moomin: They are model citizens!
We are! :moomin:
Apparently, Moomins aren't welcome at the Landover Baptist Church (http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=61771). :tard:
Seems like a fun board. Methinks a sock is in order. :moomin:
:viking:
^ I'd almost forgotten that Moomins are actually Moomintrolls. :moomin:
There are also Moominpappa and Moominmamma. :moomin:
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Really wish I had the time to register a sock on that board.
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Really wish I had the time to register a sock on that board.
Do it! Cut back on work if necessary. You'll be glad you did. >:D
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Really wish I had the time to register a sock on that board.
Do it! Cut back on work if necessary. You'll be glad you did. >:D
They are the perfect trolling opportunity. I mean, moomins? Seriously?
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Actually, I just took a look at that site, and the whole thing looks like a piss-take. :orly:
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I've still only read that thread. Maybe it is simply a trolling site.
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I've still only read that thread. Maybe it is simply a trolling site.
Yeah, maybe it's easier for me to tell because I'm 'Merican and familiar with fundies. :hyke:
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Ah, yes. Had a look at the rest of the site.
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Actually, I just took a look at that site, and the whole thing looks like a piss-take. :orly:
:indeed: :viking:
They have their own Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Baptist_Church). :P
I've still only read that thread. Maybe it is simply a trolling site.
Yeah, maybe it's easier for me to tell because I'm 'Merican and familiar with fundies. :hyke:
Their custom icon is an American flag with a cross. :pope:
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The scary part was that I only read the moomin thread and found their fundie posts totally believable.
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The scary part was that I only read the moomin thread and found their fundie posts totally believable.
They're good, then. :moomin:
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The scary part was that I only read the moomin thread and found their fundie posts totally believable.
They're good, then. :moomin:
Well, I certainly bought their act. I guess moomins are gulible. :moomin:
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Should moomins be subjected to 6 months in quarantine?
(http://nebula.wsimg.com/396a86b8554081c652dd9a6fcdb6a27a?AccessKeyId=5AAC1E48CFF82DCB1C2F&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)
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Should moomins be subjected to 6 months in quarantine?
(http://nebula.wsimg.com/396a86b8554081c652dd9a6fcdb6a27a?AccessKeyId=5AAC1E48CFF82DCB1C2F&disposition=0&alloworigin=1)
Yes, he must be locked up before he comes to America (http://www.familyfuntwincities.com/moomin-is-movin-in-to-american-swedish-institute-on-june-7th/). :police:
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:moomin: We are harmless.
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But what would be the result of inter breeding :o
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:moomin: drinking tea. :zoinks:
Good to see you Bodie. :hyke:
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:moomin: drinking tea. :zoinks:
Good to see you Bodie. :hyke:
Would :moomin: speak in a posh accent? :orly:
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Would :moomin: speak in a posh accent? :orly:
Yes, moomins also have stiff upper lips. :M
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:laugh:
Moomins also have stiff lower lips.
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:moomin: arriving here with a case full of stiff lips and guzzling tea would be most welcome!
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:moomin: arriving here with a case full of stiff lips and guzzling tea would be most welcome!
Don't forget an umbrella. :raining:
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Far from being quarantined, Moomins should be welcomed to spread their innocent cheer! :moomin:
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(http://www.walnutgreydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Moomin-characters.jpg)
A moomin in a bowler hat! What a handsome icon the integrated moomin could be!
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(http://www.themoominshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/BA50CvDJKMWBw_TLDGF935l7z3xEFXTHUByb4ARncpI.jpg)
...a top hat for the more discerning aristocratic moomin
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Hopefully the posh Moomins will be welcomed by the posh owls. :toporly: :toporly: :toporly:
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Are the posh owls British owls?
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Are the posh owls British owls?
They look rather British, I must admit. :toporly:
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Are the posh owls British owls?
They look rather British, I must admit. :toporly:
They must be city owls, taking cabs. Flying with a top hat, and still looking sharp, in British weather conditions is quite a challenge.
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Owls are embraced by Brits too. Although only owls of 'good breeding' are permitted to wear hats.
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And owls of good breeding have staff, so they do not have to fly around?
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(http://www.walnutgreydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Moomin-characters.jpg)
A moomin in a bowler hat! What a handsome icon the integrated moomin could be!
Moomins are handsome, I must admit. :moomin: