INTENSITY²
Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: Calavera on October 13, 2011, 08:04:49 PM
-
Well, guys, let's admit it. This is one interesting place with a very interesting history behind it.
So why not start a joint project and make a guide on the history of I2.
Here's the first thing we need to settle.
How many major eras or epochs make up the history of I2? What names shall we give each one?
-
There is an "important threads for newbies" thread that kind of covers this. Might be a bit buried by now.
-
Interesting idea. I'll be interested to see the history of this place wrapped up in one thread. Sadly I can't help much, as I'm a relative noob here
-
Teehee.
Neurolands. The second Intensity. Admin abuse 1. Democracy trials. Admin abuse 2. The World Council. The WC Aftermath. Everyone wanted to leave. Rebirth. Drama.
:P
-
Interesting idea. I'll be interested to see the history of this place wrapped up in one thread. Sadly I can't help much, as I'm a relative noob here
well we know we make a era for the recent events and you just made me think of a name "Generation Noob"
we can call the first era "The big bang?" idk im kind of high right now...
-
Ok, we're getting somewhere. :autism:
Odeon, your post is a bit confusing. So let me just start with the next set of questions:
When was this forum set up? By whom? For what reason(s)? What's the aim and purpose of this forum? What's the forum about?
What's a good name for the first epoch/era? If Neurolands, why the name exactly?
-
Ok, we're getting somewhere. :autism:
Odeon, your post is a bit confusing. So let me just start with the next set of questions:
When was this forum set up? By whom? For what reason(s)? What's the aim and purpose of this forum? What's the forum about?
The first Intensity was set up in the beginning of 2006 as part of Neurolands, IIRC. AFAIK the originators were McJ and Omega Female, with input from several others (Neuroman, Eamonn, Dunc, etc), but I think Callaway knows this bit better than I do. The motives and reasoning are explained here (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,119.0.html). They didn't change a lot between the first Intensity and the second but I *think* direct democracy (as in a world council) was a part of the original site.
What's a good name for the first epoch/era? If Neurolands, why the name exactly?
Neurolands (http://neurolands.com/index.php)
Intensity was first set up as part of Neurolands.
-
Teehee.
Neurolands. The second Intensity. Admin abuse 1. Democracy trials. Admin abuse 2. The World Council. The WC Aftermath. Everyone wanted to leave. Rebirth. Drama.
:P
That ^^^ looks more like an un numbered index page than a synopsis.
Teehee.
Neurolands. The second Intensity. Admin abuse 1. Democracy trials. Admin abuse 2. The World Council. The WC Aftermath. Everyone wanted to leave. Rebirth. Drama.
:P
And that looks like an introductory synopsis. Will you have the History done by Sunday? :zoinks:
-
Hopefully, by the time I die, this shall be completed. :autism:
I'm thinking of how to type up the introduction and how to have it all written down. I think it's best keeping it short but detailed.
-
Hopefully, by the time I die, this shall be completed. :autism:
I'm thinking of how to type up the introduction and how to have it all written down. I think it's best keeping it short but detailed.
I initially read that as "short but DERAILED," and found it quite fitting! :autism:
-
Teehee.
Neurolands. The second Intensity. Admin abuse 1. Democracy trials. Admin abuse 2. The World Council. The WC Aftermath. Everyone wanted to leave. Rebirth. Drama.
:P
There is more drama now than during the WC?
-
Then Al Swearengen joined an it all quietly went to shit :thumbup:
-
Then Al Swearengen joined an it all quietly went to shit :thumbup:
We'll call that the Era of the Friendly Bastard :thumbup:
-
2008 - Binty joins. I2 is never the same again.
-
2008 - Binty joins. I2 is never the same again.
That has to be broken down into sub-sections as there is the Return of Binty in 2010.
-
2008 - Binty joins. I2 is never the same again.
That has to be broken down into sub-sections as there is the Return of Binty in 2010.
Actually, Binty had more than one return. At least five, if memory serves right :lol:
-
2008 - Binty joins. I2 is never the same again.
That has to be broken down into sub-sections as there is the Return of Binty in 2010.
Actually, Binty had more than one return. At least five, if memory serves right :lol:
You deleted four accounts?
-
2008 - Binty joins. I2 is never the same again.
That has to be broken down into sub-sections as there is the Return of Binty in 2010.
Actually, Binty had more than one return. At least five, if memory serves right :lol:
You deleted four accounts?
I've lost count but yep, probably.
-
Because I'm bored as fuck I shall give a potted history of teh Binty on I2.
January 2008 - joins due to fancying Adam (then called Soph), has frequent arguments with him
early 2008 to late 2008 - is emo all over the place, has a suicide attempt, leaves and then comes back and possibly leaves again?
late 2008 to early 2009 - posts sporadically
summer 2009 - Binty is in full spamwhore mode, is horny after teh aspies but has a faulty vagina, cyber hooks up with Rage
winter 2009 - makes friends with Adam, has massive argument with Les that lasts years, turns on I2
early 2010 - leaves I2 to have a life
late 2010 - returns to I2 after real life proves to be a bit of a fail
Which brings me up to now :zoinks:
-
this looks fun. i will do a personal timeline of retardedness too:
June 2007 - joins I2 with starbuline/sophie but doesn't post much as starb isn't old enough to stay, goes off and makes zomg
September/October 2007 - starts posting more on here and then has a massive emo meltdown / anti-wp spazz attack for several months after sophie dies
March (?) 2008 - arguments with other I2 members and leaves
* sorts life out a bit
Summer 2009 - returns secretly as Heinrich and eventually starts posting normally again
* sorts life out properly
now
-
:plus: to both of you
-
Teehee.
Neurolands. The second Intensity. Admin abuse 1. Democracy trials. Admin abuse 2. The World Council. The WC Aftermath. Everyone wanted to leave. Rebirth. Drama.
:P
There is more drama now than during the WC?
No, the WC was more focussed drama. I2's always been about drama, in addition to enabling the spazzes.
-
When was this forum set up? By whom? For what reason(s)? What's the aim and purpose of this forum? What's the forum about?
What's a good name for the first epoch/era? If Neurolands, why the name exactly?
Neurolands was supposed to be a site to help people on the autism spectrum get jobs. It was founded by Neuroman and McJagger with Tigerlily, Shima (hiroshima on Intensity) and hermit. They met on Wrongplanet in 2005-2006 while I was a mod there. Then one of the periodic WrongPlanet exoduses (exodi?) led to a huge influx of new members to the Neurolands forum (http://neurolands.com/smf/index.php) (different from Neurolands Portal that Odeon linked) and the original purpose of the forum getting swept away. Neuroman set up a system where members could request and start their own forums. Sophist's Gestalt was founded this way, and kevv729's Sockpuppet Television, and the original Intensity by McJagger, and one other forum that Neuroman started for Lucifer/Vivi.
There was drama over the original Intensity and whether it was too crass to be associated with a site meant to promote work opportunities for people on the spectrum. Neuroman attempted to arrange a debate/callout between McJagger and Lucifer, who was outspoken against Intensity. Shortly afterwards, both Neurolands and Intensity went down, but Gestalt, the sockpuppet forum and Lucifer's forum stayed up. People panicked, accusations everywhere. The biggest accusations were against a hacker group called s.t.o.r.m.f.r.o.n.t. (lol, their name is still in the word filter here... there was a member who thought he was being targeted by them for something he said and then deleted on Intensity), against Neuroman (did he bring Intensity down on purpose?), and against Lucifer (was she conspiring to bring Nlands/Intensity down because she didn't want to face McJagger?).
Neuroman and hermit were the only techs, and by that point hermit had left. Neuroman fixed the Intensity database and it was online briefly then went down again. More panic, more accusations, and then Neuroman did what he told me was the greatest faux pas of his life: he told people he was trying to make Intensity safe, when what he was really doing was trying to make Intensity work. It was too late; Intensity's supporters were outraged at the concept of making a free speech site "safe".
They gathered at a temporary forum someone had set up. McJagger was ready to give up, and this was the point I stepped in: I booted him off his ass and told him to get his own hosting, get the site independent from Neurolands.
He did, and that was the beginning of IntensitySquared. He worked with Dunc of Dunc's Drivel (http://www.duncsdrivel.biz/enter.html) - who incidentally used to work with Alex at the very beginning of WrongPlanet (2004-2005?) before getting disgusted and leaving. Dunc was one of the first to see Alex as what he was.
-
Yes, this is the kind I'm after. Beautiful. Cleared a lot of things up for me.
I may ask you some more questions later.
-
Sure, happy to answer them.
-
Yes that was very informative Pyraxis. Brilliant.
-
Only, Lucifer was never conspiring. I find the idea ludicrous. Pyraxis never got along with her. There was a similar accusation that she did stuff to WP... ::)
As I recall it, the first Intensity was often considered to be plump and tasteless. An early thread that got attention was the one about which female members the posters wanted to fuck. It made a mark at WP and OTS.
Also, Dunc's role in the beginning was that of a webmaster. He set up the site (first with a host that didn't tolerate nudes, IIRC, then on a shared host with Dunc's Drivel) but didn't really take part in McJ's more ideological flights of fancy. For that there was Omega, Eamonn and others.
Pyraxis--I thought Omega was involved with the first Intensity but maybe I'm wrong?!
-
Only, Lucifer was never conspiring. I find the idea ludicrous. Pyraxis never got along with her. There was a similar accusation that she did stuff to WP... ::)
As I recall it, the first Intensity was often considered to be plump and tasteless. An early thread that got attention was the one about which female members the posters wanted to fuck. It made a mark at WP and OTS.
Also, Dunc's role in the beginning was that of a webmaster. He set up the site (first with a host that didn't tolerate nudes, IIRC, then on a shared host with Dunc's Drivel) but didn't really take part in McJ's more ideological flights of fancy. For that there was Omega, Eamonn and others.
Pyraxis--I thought Omega was involved with the first Intensity but maybe I'm wrong?!
Yes, the first Intensity, which was an offshoot of the Neurolands, was started by McJagger, Omega, and Eamonn. Jman started the infamous thread (anonymously) about which of WP's females he wanted to fuck, which led to a shitstorm on WP.
Also, when Intensity and the Neurolands went down, the place where people were discussing the possibility of bringing Intensity back either as an offshoot of the Neurolands or with its own host, was on Dunc's Drivel. This led to Dunc's offer to host the new Intensity site on the Drivel's server. Dunc originally hosted IntensitySquared on the same host that the Drivel was hosted on, but since they didn't allow nudes, even Kevv's "artistic nudes," he changed hosts for both sites to the one with the most liberal TOS that he could find.
-
Was there a world council for the original Intensity? I remember that I2 had admin elections fairly early on, but not a WC.
-
Was there a world council for the original Intensity? I remember that I2 had admin elections fairly early on, but not a WC.
Yes, there was a World Council on the original Intensity that was supposed to serve in an advisory capacity whose few members were hand picked by McJagger to represent diverse views.
I can't remember all of them, but I think some of them were PostPerson, Ascan, PurposefulInsanity and SnoCone.
-
BTW, what was the name of Dunc and PI's autism activism site, do you remember?
-
Only, Lucifer was never conspiring. I find the idea ludicrous. Pyraxis never got along with her. There was a similar accusation that she did stuff to WP... ::)
As I recall it, the first Intensity was often considered to be plump and tasteless. An early thread that got attention was the one about which female members the posters wanted to fuck. It made a mark at WP and OTS.
Also, Dunc's role in the beginning was that of a webmaster. He set up the site (first with a host that didn't tolerate nudes, IIRC, then on a shared host with Dunc's Drivel) but didn't really take part in McJ's more ideological flights of fancy. For that there was Omega, Eamonn and others.
Pyraxis--I thought Omega was involved with the first Intensity but maybe I'm wrong?!
Yeah, Omega and Eamonn were two of the biggest supporters. I think they were admins on IntensitySquared at the beginning too.
That's correct - the "which females members do you want to fuck?" thread was the source of a lot of the original drama about what was acceptable on Intensity and whether anything was unacceptable.
I think we're going to disagree forever on whether Lucifer was conspiring. Since you dated her and Neuroman is now my partner, we both have a personal stake it.
-
Was there a world council for the original Intensity? I remember that I2 had admin elections fairly early on, but not a WC.
Yes, there was a World Council on the original Intensity that was supposed to serve in an advisory capacity whose few members were hand picked by McJagger to represent diverse views.
I can't remember all of them, but I think some of them were PostPerson, Ascan, PurposefulInsanity and SnoCone.
PostPerson and Asscan as advisors? ??? Was Intensity trying to woo the cunty demographic?
-
BTW, what was the name of Dunc and PI's autism activism site, do you remember?
The Wronged, I think it was.
-
Was there a world council for the original Intensity? I remember that I2 had admin elections fairly early on, but not a WC.
Yes, there was a World Council on the original Intensity that was supposed to serve in an advisory capacity whose few members were hand picked by McJagger to represent diverse views.
I can't remember all of them, but I think some of them were PostPerson, Ascan, PurposefulInsanity and SnoCone.
PostPerson and Asscan as advisors? ??? Was Intensity trying to woo the cunty demographic?
Maybe that's what McJagger had in mind.
Ascan meticulously deleted each and every one of his posts here and then he deleted his account during his call-out with McJagger, so I can't suggest that you read them, but here's the call-out with McJagger's quotes of his call-out posts:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,236.0.html (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,236.0.html)
Postperson deleted her account immediately after IntensitySquared's first election for administrators.
-
:lol: McJ's 2nd post is hilarious. :plus: for the link.
-
Only, Lucifer was never conspiring. I find the idea ludicrous. Pyraxis never got along with her. There was a similar accusation that she did stuff to WP... ::)
As I recall it, the first Intensity was often considered to be plump and tasteless. An early thread that got attention was the one about which female members the posters wanted to fuck. It made a mark at WP and OTS.
Also, Dunc's role in the beginning was that of a webmaster. He set up the site (first with a host that didn't tolerate nudes, IIRC, then on a shared host with Dunc's Drivel) but didn't really take part in McJ's more ideological flights of fancy. For that there was Omega, Eamonn and others.
Pyraxis--I thought Omega was involved with the first Intensity but maybe I'm wrong?!
Yeah, Omega and Eamonn were two of the biggest supporters. I think they were admins on IntensitySquared at the beginning too.
That's correct - the "which females members do you want to fuck?" thread was the source of a lot of the original drama about what was acceptable on Intensity and whether anything was unacceptable.
I think we're going to disagree forever on whether Lucifer was conspiring. Since you dated her and Neuroman is now my partner, we both have a personal stake it.
Knowing her, I simply find it very hard to believe.
-
BTW, what was the name of Dunc and PI's autism activism site, do you remember?
The Wronged, I think it was.
That was it, yes. Thanks.
-
:lol: McJ's 2nd post is hilarious. :plus: for the link.
Randy barging in is priceless, too.
-
Knowing her, I simply find it very hard to believe.
Okay... I'm curious what you know that makes it hard to believe. Also do you have a theory on what happened instead?
-
Knowing her, I simply find it very hard to believe.
Okay... I'm curious what you know that makes it hard to believe. Also do you have a theory on what happened instead?
No, sorry, I don't really have a theory. It's just something I find very difficult to believe. She doesn't have the technical know-how to conspire on that level, she didn't have the motive whatever the level (she faced McJ quite a few times, as I recall it, and I don't see why confronting him would have posed a problem then or later, when I learned to know her), and it's not something can I see her doing.
I don't *know*, of course, but she did deny it and it's not consistent with her personality. I think what happened simply happened, without malice from anyone involved.
-
Per Neuroman, she used to brag about having techie boys in her back pocket. I didn't think she did the tech stuff herself, but that she got people to do it for her.
As for the callout McJ, my thought was that she found Nman's callout plan intrusive and unexpected. I doubt he consulted her before announcing it. I thought she didn't like coming off the worse in public when she wasn't on her own territory. It would effectively have been a popularity contest between her and McJ, which she might not have won.
-
Per Neuroman, she used to brag about having techie boys in her back pocket. I didn't think she did the tech stuff herself, but that she got people to do it for her.
As for the callout McJ, my thought was that she found Nman's callout plan intrusive and unexpected. I doubt he consulted her before announcing it. I thought she didn't like coming off the worse in public when she wasn't on her own territory. It would effectively have been a popularity contest between her and McJ, which she might not have won.
She never did make the techie boys to do that sort of thing for her, AFAIK, and I did talk about it with her. It may have been something she might have said but not something she would have done (she laughed at the idea, IIRC). But more importantly, she wouldn't have sneaked out of something like that. It's just not her thing, she would have fought McJ head on if need be.
-
Maybe. You did know her better than me.
That's interesting. I didn't think she had any code of honor whatsoever.
What I can't figure out is why the databases broke at such a convenient time, and twice in a row, and why just those two databases. I was there when Nman finally figured out how to restore the original Intensity database, summer of 2007. I don't know much about SQL/PHP but it was a really small thing, like one line that someone could have plausibly changed and would have been very difficult to find afterwards.
-
:lol: McJ's 2nd post is hilarious. :plus: for the link.
Randy barging in is priceless, too.
I miss that lunatic. His ginseng/jacking off tirades were great. :thumbup:
-
I miss that lunatic. His ginseng/jacking off tirades were great. :thumbup:
He's probably hanging out in the prison liberry! :autism:
-
Yes. I want Randy to come back.
-
Maybe. You did know her better than me.
That's interesting. I didn't think she had any code of honor whatsoever.
What I can't figure out is why the databases broke at such a convenient time, and twice in a row, and why just those two databases. I was there when Nman finally figured out how to restore the original Intensity database, summer of 2007. I don't know much about SQL/PHP but it was a really small thing, like one line that someone could have plausibly changed and would have been very difficult to find afterwards.
As I don't know what the actual DB issue was, I can't comment on that. I remember when this place was prone to crashing, soon after we moved it from Dunc's space to mine. Everything checked out, every single thing, yet the place kept crashing. It's usually a small and seemingly insignificant thing that does it.
-
When was this forum set up? By whom? For what reason(s)? What's the aim and purpose of this forum? What's the forum about?
What's a good name for the first epoch/era? If Neurolands, why the name exactly?
Neurolands was supposed to be a site to help people on the autism spectrum get jobs. It was founded by Neuroman and McJagger with Tigerlily, Shima (hiroshima on Intensity) and hermit. They met on Wrongplanet in 2005-2006 while I was a mod there. Then one of the periodic WrongPlanet exoduses (exodi?) led to a huge influx of new members to the Neurolands forum (http://neurolands.com/smf/index.php) (different from Neurolands Portal that Odeon linked) and the original purpose of the forum getting swept away. Neuroman set up a system where members could request and start their own forums. Sophist's Gestalt was founded this way, and kevv729's Sockpuppet Television, and the original Intensity by McJagger, and one other forum that Neuroman started for Lucifer/Vivi.
There was drama over the original Intensity and whether it was too crass to be associated with a site meant to promote work opportunities for people on the spectrum. Neuroman attempted to arrange a debate/callout between McJagger and Lucifer, who was outspoken against Intensity. Shortly afterwards, both Neurolands and Intensity went down, but Gestalt, the sockpuppet forum and Lucifer's forum stayed up. People panicked, accusations everywhere. The biggest accusations were against a hacker group called s.t.o.r.m.f.r.o.n.t. (lol, their name is still in the word filter here... there was a member who thought he was being targeted by them for something he said and then deleted on Intensity), against Neuroman (did he bring Intensity down on purpose?), and against Lucifer (was she conspiring to bring Nlands/Intensity down because she didn't want to face McJagger?).
Neuroman and hermit were the only techs, and by that point hermit had left. Neuroman fixed the Intensity database and it was online briefly then went down again. More panic, more accusations, and then Neuroman did what he told me was the greatest faux pas of his life: he told people he was trying to make Intensity safe, when what he was really doing was trying to make Intensity work. It was too late; Intensity's supporters were outraged at the concept of making a free speech site "safe".
They gathered at a temporary forum someone had set up. McJagger was ready to give up, and this was the point I stepped in: I booted him off his ass and told him to get his own hosting, get the site independent from Neurolands.
He did, and that was the beginning of IntensitySquared. He worked with Dunc of Dunc's Drivel (http://www.duncsdrivel.biz/enter.html) - who incidentally used to work with Alex at the very beginning of WrongPlanet (2004-2005?) before getting disgusted and leaving. Dunc was one of the first to see Alex as what he was.
You make McJagger sound like the bogeyman and Lucifer a powderpuff by comparison.
Lucifer is as tough as nails and I can not see her shying from McJagger.
Hell if need be and over the right thing, I would take on McJagger and more readily than I would Lucifer.
C'mon confess, you simply do not like Lucifer and you did not like that callout you had with her.
-
It's a problem with history lessons such as this, that old drama will be unearthed and argued about but without everyone involved here to argue their sides.
-
You make McJagger sound like the bogeyman and Lucifer a powderpuff by comparison.
Lucifer is as tough as nails and I can not see her shying from McJagger.
Hell if need be and over the right thing, I would take on McJagger and more readily than I would Lucifer.
C'mon confess, you simply do not like Lucifer and you did not like that callout you had with her.
No. There's more to it than that.
(And I do believe Odeon that she would have faced McJagger.)
That callout did everything it could have, it took out of her what she took out of Neuroman when all the drama was going down and he was flat on his back in bed with what he later found out was multiple myeloma. It was sheer revenge and a warning both to someone I saw as a serious threat and the people around her. I was willing to be put through the ringer for it.
In the absence of my being able to explain why I was so completely furious with her, it was inevitable - not that I realized it at the time - that it would end the way it did.
But for all that Odeon might roll his eyes, her actions were a pattern I saw her enact first with Alex Plank, then with Neuroman, and then later with Odeon himself.
She has beliefs which she has never fully explained in the autism community, to my knowledge, about the traditional roles of men and women. She tried to enforce these on every autism community she was a part of.
As a masculine woman who also supports effeminate men, I will oppose those beliefs wherever I encounter them.
Because what ended up happening was not the empowerment of women, which she seemed to want, but harm to men who already had such bad histories with women that her actions only made the problem worse. On WrongPlanet it was Ghosthunter, a homeless former gay prostitute looking for friends, whose awkward sex talk offended her politically correct sensibilities about the objectification of women. He was one of the people I had in mind when I conceived of the Haven forum there. On Neurolands it was Neuroman, whose history I'm not going to get into, but as the woman picking up the pieces after his flashbacks and trying to get him medical treatment, I got first hand knowledge of the dynamics.
She used group social manipulation to try and get what she wanted, and even if one considers that fair game among a bunch of autistics, it didn't work. WrongPlanet is still run by a chauvinistic little twerp. Intensity survived as an unmoderated community. Her tactics didn't work around the kind of men who really do objectify women. The only casualties were men who were, ironically, quite gentle and fair, just fucked up.
If I make Lucifer sound like a powderpuff, perhaps it's because that's how she wants to be seen.
-
It's a problem with history lessons such as this, that old drama will be unearthed and argued about but without everyone involved here to argue their sides.
True. But Neuroman's here, he advised me on what I wrote and he knows about this thread. And you're still in touch with Lucifer, aren't you? No reason she couldn't come back and give her side.
-
It's a problem with history lessons such as this, that old drama will be unearthed and argued about but without everyone involved here to argue their sides.
True. But Neuroman's here, he advised me on what I wrote and he knows about this thread. And you're still in touch with Lucifer, aren't you? No reason she couldn't come back and give her side.
I will ask but I doubt it. She is done with I2, or so she says.
-
You make McJagger sound like the bogeyman and Lucifer a powderpuff by comparison.
Lucifer is as tough as nails and I can not see her shying from McJagger.
Hell if need be and over the right thing, I would take on McJagger and more readily than I would Lucifer.
C'mon confess, you simply do not like Lucifer and you did not like that callout you had with her.
No. There's more to it than that.
(And I do believe Odeon that she would have faced McJagger.)
That callout did everything it could have, it took out of her what she took out of Neuroman when all the drama was going down and he was flat on his back in bed with what he later found out was multiple myeloma. It was sheer revenge and a warning both to someone I saw as a serious threat and the people around her. I was willing to be put through the ringer for it.
In the absence of my being able to explain why I was so completely furious with her, it was inevitable - not that I realized it at the time - that it would end the way it did.
But for all that Odeon might roll his eyes, her actions were a pattern I saw her enact first with Alex Plank, then with Neuroman, and then later with Odeon himself.
She has beliefs which she has never fully explained in the autism community, to my knowledge, about the traditional roles of men and women. She tried to enforce these on every autism community she was a part of.
As a masculine woman who also supports effeminate men, I will oppose those beliefs wherever I encounter them.
Because what ended up happening was not the empowerment of women, which she seemed to want, but harm to men who already had such bad histories with women that her actions only made the problem worse. On WrongPlanet it was Ghosthunter, a homeless former gay prostitute looking for friends, whose awkward sex talk offended her politically correct sensibilities about the objectification of women. He was one of the people I had in mind when I conceived of the Haven forum there. On Neurolands it was Neuroman, whose history I'm not going to get into, but as the woman picking up the pieces after his flashbacks and trying to get him medical treatment, I got first hand knowledge of the dynamics.
She used group social manipulation to try and get what she wanted, and even if one considers that fair game among a bunch of autistics, it didn't work. WrongPlanet is still run by a chauvinistic little twerp. Intensity survived as an unmoderated community. Her tactics didn't work around the kind of men who really do objectify women. The only casualties were men who were, ironically, quite gentle and fair, just fucked up.
If I make Lucifer sound like a powderpuff, perhaps it's because that's how she wants to be seen.
I can't address the Ghosthunter matter since I have no knowledge of any part of that particular drama, if there was any. It was before my time. As for the callout between Lucifer and you, there is little to be said about that because she isn't here to defend herself, except that I don't recognise your description of her and I probably know her better than most people.
Me rolling my eyes was just that--I don't recognise the person you describe. I remember the callout well, though, and had several discussions with her about it.
It's ancient drama now, though, and not something I particularly wish to bring up. I don't see the point.
-
To be fair, Pyraxis did say it in an objective manner regardless. As in it may not have been true that Lucifer did this or that.
Anyway:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.msg824889.html#new (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.msg824889.html#new)
Let me know what needs to be edited or added to before moving on to the next stage.
I'll add the bit about the purpose of IntensitySquared later.
-
Ok, that thread about which female members would you want to fuck deserves a mention as it seems to have contributed to a controvery of some sort related to Intensity.
Anyone wish to help me out what to add and where?
-
To the admins who have the privilege to edit anyone's posts here, feel free to edit that post in the linked to thread when/if needed.
-
Edit: I can't read :autism:
-
To be fair, Pyraxis did say it in an objective manner regardless. As in it may not have been true that Lucifer did this or that.
Anyway:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.msg824889.html#new (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.msg824889.html#new)
Let me know what needs to be edited or added to before moving on to the next stage.
I'll add the bit about the purpose of IntensitySquared later.
I'd suggest you to remove that "objective" manner because it is anything but. Unless, of course, you also wish to add my and Sir Les's objections.
It's bad form to simply repeat what I see as baseless accusation. There is no proof whatsoever and you weren't around when Lucifer was posting here. It was well known that Lucifer and Pyraxis didn't get along.
-
Ok, edit what needs to be edited in that thread. Or at least tell me what to remove exactly.
-
Nevermind. I think I figured out what you wanted fixed.
Is the now edited post more objective? Because that's what I'm after.
-
Yes, it's more objective. Gotta go, talk later.
-
You can sigh a sigh of relief now. :autism:
-
Why is it objective to leave in the bit about what Dunc thought about Alex but not the bits about who was accused of hacking Intensity?
Not that I think I stand a shot in an objectivity contest against either of you. And Sir Les is conspicuously silent. But what the hey, I'm not going to be edited here. :zoinks:
-
Except by me. :green:
-
Alex is really a fucking twat, though. It's the most objective thing one can say about him.
-
To the admins who have the privilege to edit anyone's posts here, feel free to edit that post in the linked to thread when/if needed.
Do you really want your name on work that others have fucked with macca?
-
To the admins who have the privilege to edit anyone's posts here, feel free to edit that post in the linked to thread when/if needed.
Do you really want your name on work that others have fucked with macca?
Not sure if I understood you properly, but it's a joint project. My name is of no importance here.
-
Alex is really a fucking twat, though. It's the most objective thing one can say about him.
No. That's just your personal dislike of him.
Taken literally, he is not a vagina. Taken in context, an insult is not an objective statement.
There's a bond of trust in this community, that the developer(s) do not actually use their ability to go into the database and change things. As irritated as I am by Odeon enforcing his will to take out the direct accusations, he does not seem to have actually edited your history post, simply asked you to change it. Remember that this is Intensity now, not WrongPlanet, and you do not have to.
With admin access on Neurolands, I have the relevant threads up in front of me right now, and could directly quote the accusations here. Dunno what's more objective than that.
But I do see the point about not repeating old drama. My original post is still here for anyone who cares to dig for it.
@Les: On backing up one's words, ask and thou shalt receive.
-
"The history of a nation is, unfortunately, too easily written as the history of its dominant class."
- Kwame Nkrumah, and just about everybody else... Per Snopes.com, there's no clear historical attribution of that quote.
-
No. That's just your personal dislike of him.
Taken literally, he is not a vagina. Taken in context, an insult is not an objective statement.
I made no insult of him in that post. But yes, I did copy/paste what you insinuate about him. I can easily also change that one next time I edit. It's no big deal for me.
There's a bond of trust in this community, that the developer(s) do not actually use their ability to go into the database and change things. As irritated as I am by Odeon enforcing his will to take out the direct accusations, he does not seem to have actually edited your history post, simply asked you to change it. Remember that this is Intensity now, not WrongPlanet, and you do not have to.
I'm giving Odeon and the other admins permission to edit that post. Your point above is basically moot.
And Odeon asking me to change something for a good reason would be the same as any other member asking me to change something in there for a valid reason.
Since the Alex bit is also not objective, I'll be happy to edit that next time.
With admin access on Neurolands, I have the relevant threads up in front of me right now, and could directly quote the accusations here. Dunno what's more objective than that.
I don't think I want to include every single bit of detail in the history thread, though. But if it's really important for us to know post a link, and we'll see.
-
"The history of a nation is, unfortunately, too easily written as the history of its dominant class."
- Kwame Nkrumah, and just about everybody else... Per Snopes.com, there's no clear historical attribution of that quote.
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
-
To the admins who have the privilege to edit anyone's posts here, feel free to edit that post in the linked to thread when/if needed.
Do you really want your name on work that others have fucked with macca?
Not sure if I understood you properly, but it's a joint project. My name is of no importance here.
Conan The Barbarian books are divided into the Robert E. Howard era and the post Robert E. Howard era. When Howard was the only author - as opposed to when others fleshed out his rough drafts - the stories were better. A Tale Of Two Cities is the only book that Dickens wrote that was written as a book as opposed to in serialized form in newspapers. As a consequence it is his best work because he did not have editors and members of the public suggesting where he should take the story. A camel is a horse designed by a committee. Own the project, listen to others - but own it. Pyraxis and odeon are not in agreement, Calandale will only agree if it revolves around Calandale (that is my bias showing). Take facts that are mutually stipulated and run with them, listen to all sides and try to figure out the most accurate rendering in accordance with old posts. Read the attention whores lobbying for votes and note the difference in Callaway's posting style circa 2007 versus 2009. Post alternate views where needed and appropriate. Or tell me to fuck off and do it your way. :hahaha:
-
To the admins who have the privilege to edit anyone's posts here, feel free to edit that post in the linked to thread when/if needed.
Do you really want your name on work that others have fucked with macca?
Not sure if I understood you properly, but it's a joint project. My name is of no importance here.
Conan The Barbarian books are divided into the Robert E. Howard era and the post Robert E. Howard era. When Howard was the only author - as opposed to when others fleshed out his rough drafts - the stories were better. A Tale Of Two Cities is the only book that Dickens wrote that was written as a book as opposed to in serialized form in newspapers. As a consequence it is his best work because he did not have editors and members of the public suggesting where he should take the story. A camel is a horse designed by a committee. Own the project, listen to others - but own it. Pyraxis and odeon are not in agreement, Calandale will only agree if it revolves around Calandale (that is my bias showing). Take facts that are mutually stipulated and run with them, listen to all sides and try to figure out the most accurate rendering in accordance with old posts. Read the attention whores lobbying for votes and note the difference in Callaway's posting style circa 2007 versus 2009. Post alternate views where needed and appropriate. Or tell me to fuck off and do it your way. :hahaha:
If I could write a good well written book, I would. But it wouldn't be about the history of I2.
That said, your advice is sound, just not convenient much for me. What I'll do is just make sure what I submit is objective and free from bias and then post it. Best route for me for now.
-
There's a bond of trust in this community, that the developer(s) do not actually use their ability to go into the database and change things. As irritated as I am by Odeon enforcing his will to take out the direct accusations, he does not seem to have actually edited your history post, simply asked you to change it. Remember that this is Intensity now, not WrongPlanet, and you do not have to.
I'm giving Odeon and the other admins permission to edit that post. Your point above is basically moot.
And Odeon asking me to change something for a good reason would be the same as any other member asking me to change something in there for a valid reason.
No, my point is not moot, because what you're proposing gives favor to admins over regular members, which is against the nature of free speech.
Your second point also makes you the sole arbiter of what constitutes a "valid reason", and honeyboy, you are not as objective as you think.
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
-
If I could write a good well written book, I would. But it wouldn't be about the history of I2.
That said, your advice is sound, just not convenient much for me. What I'll do is just make sure what I submit is objective and free from bias and then post it. Best route for me for now.
Convenient? Was it convenient for John Paul Jones to yell "I have not yet begun to fight!" :viking: rather than surrender? No! He took on the toughest Navy in the world, with considerable French :eiffel: help, and prevailed! That said, the task of writing a history of I2 is not exactly The History Of The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire. Can you have a rough draft on my desk in 3 weeks?
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Arab Spring and Occupy Wall Street are two examples of significant events resulting, in large part, because of quick, rapidly coordinated cooperation made possible by internet communication.
-
What I think is that I came up with a good idea and am carrying it out, expecting some coordination from as many members as possible. Not surrendering anytime soon. Only if I know it's a failure will I give up.
And why am I doing this? It's because I'm intrigued by the historical background of this forum, and I'm sure others are also, so it should be beneficial for not only me but for any member who'd like to read a general history of I2 in one thread.
Yeah, it's not the history of Rome, but I don't have all the knowledge needed to know the historical ins and outs of I2, so I can only rely on others to help me out. We can argue all day about this, or we can work together on this project and without making big deals out of every point. I think the latter is much better.
-
There's a bond of trust in this community, that the developer(s) do not actually use their ability to go into the database and change things. As irritated as I am by Odeon enforcing his will to take out the direct accusations, he does not seem to have actually edited your history post, simply asked you to change it. Remember that this is Intensity now, not WrongPlanet, and you do not have to.
I'm giving Odeon and the other admins permission to edit that post. Your point above is basically moot.
And Odeon asking me to change something for a good reason would be the same as any other member asking me to change something in there for a valid reason.
No, my point is not moot, because what you're proposing gives favor to admins over regular members, which is against the nature of free speech.
Actually, I think I can trust the admins well enough to be even more objective than I could be. I've read more than enough of their posts to know.
Your second point also makes you the sole arbiter of what constitutes a "valid reason", and honeyboy, you are not as objective as you think.
Maybe so, but I am one sexy beast, and that is good enough for me.
-
What I think is that I came up with a good idea and am carrying it out, expecting some coordination from as many members as possible. Not surrendering anytime soon. Only if I know it's a failure will I give up.
And why am I doing this? It's because I'm intrigued by the historical background of this forum, and I'm sure others are also, so it should be beneficial for not only me but for any member who'd like to read a general history of I2 in one thread.
Yeah, it's not the history of Rome, but I don't have all the knowledge needed to know the historical ins and outs of I2, so I can only rely on others to help me out. We can argue all day about this, or we can work together on this project and without making big deals out of every point. I think the latter is much better.
I was pulling your chain, a little, with the John Paul Jones reference. :hahaha: OTOH I was serious about not encouraging admins to just play with your posts at will.
Why would you question your own ability to write a book? ???
-
Why would you question your own ability to write a book? ???
Writing a good book requires time and motivation and good vocabulary skills. I can write a book in a rushed manner, but expect a decade of me imprisoned somewhere on an isolated island before you can see me finish writing a book good enough to read.
I remember writing a full handwritten book for one of my brothers when we were kids. It was fully action-packed but terribly written. Too bad I can't make copies of it and it's long gone.
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Arab Spring and Occupy Wall Street are two examples of significant events resulting, in large part, because of quick, rapidly coordinated cooperation made possible by internet communication.
Also that Weeble flash mob, with the lot of us wobbling in front of the White House!
:cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc:
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Arab Spring and Occupy Wall Street are two examples of significant events resulting, in large part, because of quick, rapidly coordinated cooperation made possible by internet communication.
And it's no wonder why the governments are trying to impose new censorship laws and kill switches on it too. The internet is the biggest threat to their control.
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Arab Spring and Occupy Wall Street are two examples of significant events resulting, in large part, because of quick, rapidly coordinated cooperation made possible by internet communication.
Also that Weeble flash mob, with the lot of us wobbling in front of the White House!
:cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc: :cbc:
I don't even want to think about that one. :hide:
And it's no wonder why the governments are trying to impose new censorship laws and kill switches on it too. The internet is the biggest threat to their control.
:agreed:
-
Why is it objective to leave in the bit about what Dunc thought about Alex but not the bits about who was accused of hacking Intensity?
Not that I think I stand a shot in an objectivity contest against either of you. And Sir Les is conspicuously silent. But what the hey, I'm not going to be edited here. :zoinks:
What Dunc thought about Alex is a matter of record. Who hacked Intensity isn't. Either back up your shit or shut up, Pyraxis.
Edit: I just realised that I'm playing into your strawman, right here. You'll have to prove it was hacked to begin with, don't you?
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Er, *your* point?
For what it's worth, it is only your words. You insinuate you know more, you say that Nman advised you on this, but you don't have proof. You never did but this is not the first time you went after Lucifer. If you had actually had any you would have shown it a long time ago.
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Er, *your* point?
For what it's worth, it is only your words. You insinuate you know more, you say that Nman advised you on this, but you don't have proof. You never did but this is not the first time you went after Lucifer. If you had actually had any you would have shown it a long time ago.
If we are just talking about accusations without proof, McJagger thought that Intensity wasn't really hacked at all, he thought that Neuroman just deleted Jman's infamous thread and turned off the site. McJagger accessed Intensity through a PM link, although he could only access the admin panel at first. He saw that Intensity's board had been turned off, so he turned it back on again. He spent five minutes or so looking around and saw that everything was fine with the site except Jman's thread, which had been deleted. Then, since he still thought at that time that the site had been hacked and worrying that his personal computer might be vulnerable, he turned off Intensity's board again and logged off. Then he posted about what he had found out in the founders forum on the Neurolands. Within twelve hours his ability to access the site at all was removed.
-
I'm not sure what happened here, but I'm sure Callaway did it :M
-
I'm not sure what happened here, but I'm sure Callaway did it :M
I did it. I am ButtChairCoffeePlankenstein
-
Odeon, Callaway, Pyraxis, and whoever was there at the time, where exactly should I insert the bit about the controversial thread (made by jman) into the history post?
-
I'm not sure what happened here, but I'm sure Callaway did it :M
:lol:
I wasn't an admin on the old Intensity nor one of the founders on the Neurolands, so I had no access to do anything. I was one of the people who were on the Drivel to discuss what we were going to do regarding Intensity after the supposed hacking, though.
-
What Dunc thought about Alex is a matter of record. Who hacked Intensity isn't. Either back up your shit or shut up, Pyraxis.
Edit: I just realised that I'm playing into your strawman, right here. You'll have to prove it was hacked to begin with, don't you?
Not sure what you mean by the strawman, but I can see that if we pursued this fully, it would end up like your callout with Mechanima. I would keep saying things and you would keep insisting I wasn't backing up my words to your satisfaction. I said what I wanted to say, I'll continue doing so, and if that doesn't constitute backing my shit up to you, tough luck.
-
Odeon, Callaway, Pyraxis, and whoever was there at the time, where exactly should I insert the bit about the controversial thread (made by jman) into the history post?
The anonymous thread which Jman started, titled something like "Which WP female would you fuck?" happened shortly before the supposed hacking.
I thought that Neuroman tried to set up the debate between Vivi and McJagger after the supposed hacking, not before. My understanding at the time was that was the only way Neuroman would bring Intensity back up as part of the Neurolands.
Another point perhaps worth mentioning is that at that time Neuroman seemed a very different person than the way WolFish seems now. He seemed much more sensitive.
-
What Dunc thought about Alex is a matter of record. Who hacked Intensity isn't. Either back up your shit or shut up, Pyraxis.
Edit: I just realised that I'm playing into your strawman, right here. You'll have to prove it was hacked to begin with, don't you?
Not sure what you mean by the strawman, but I can see that if we pursued this fully, it would end up like your callout with Mechanima. I would keep saying things and you would keep insisting I wasn't backing up my words to your satisfaction. I said what I wanted to say, I'll continue doing so, and if that doesn't constitute backing my shit up to you, tough luck.
Bullshit. You don't have the proof, only accusations, and you know it. Want to address Callaway's point if not mine?
-
What Dunc thought about Alex is a matter of record. Who hacked Intensity isn't. Either back up your shit or shut up, Pyraxis.
Edit: I just realised that I'm playing into your strawman, right here. You'll have to prove it was hacked to begin with, don't you?
Not sure what you mean by the strawman, but I can see that if we pursued this fully, it would end up like your callout with Mechanima. I would keep saying things and you would keep insisting I wasn't backing up my words to your satisfaction. I said what I wanted to say, I'll continue doing so, and if that doesn't constitute backing my shit up to you, tough luck.
Oh, and your strawman was treating your assumption of the site being hacked as a basis of your post.
-
Intensity Squared is not a nation. It's an online forum.
And so far, most of the post there is from your own words.
Er, your point?
For what it's worth, I suspect that a few hundred years from now, this period, the beginning of mass global communication and the online societies that have sprung up because of it, will be seen as a cultural phenomenon with equal validity to geographically-organized historical societies.
Er, *your* point?
For what it's worth, it is only your words. You insinuate you know more, you say that Nman advised you on this, but you don't have proof. You never did but this is not the first time you went after Lucifer. If you had actually had any you would have shown it a long time ago.
If we are just talking about accusations without proof, McJagger thought that Intensity wasn't really hacked at all, he thought that Neuroman just deleted Jman's infamous thread and turned off the site. McJagger accessed Intensity through a PM link, although he could only access the admin panel at first. He saw that Intensity's board had been turned off, so he turned it back on again. He spent five minutes or so looking around and saw that everything was fine with the site except Jman's thread, which had been deleted. Then, since he still thought at that time that the site had been hacked and worrying that his personal computer might be vulnerable, he turned off Intensity's board again and logged off. Then he posted about what he had found out in the founders forum on the Neurolands. Within twelve hours his ability to access the site at all was removed.
I remember McJ mentioning that at some point, now that you mention it.
-
Oh, and yet another thing, Pyraxis: regarding objectivity, facts and all that, care to address that part about the facts behind Dunc's opinions about the plank vs yours about Lucifer hacking Intensity? As if they were comparable, which they are not, but I'm willing to play your game for this instance.
-
Bullshit. You don't have the proof, only accusations, and you know it. Want to address Callaway's point if not mine?
Correct. I don't have proof. What I don't get is why you keep harping on it when I thought we agreed on that several pages back. There was an issue with the database, it might or might not have been caused intentionally but there's no real way to tell. How did it get so far under your skin?
Callaway might be right about the sequence of events, that Nman tried to arrrange the McJ/Vivi callout after Intensity went down for the first time. At this point I'm tempted to not even bother looking it up, just for the sake of needling you. I think she has access to the threads on Nlands as well, and more patience for archiving.
But here.
I see a threat from McJ on March 28, 2006 that he wants Intensity back up within 24 hours and Vivi to not have any say over whether it stayed, so at that point it was both down and the callout had been announced.
There's a thread on WrongPlanet here (http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.html?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=206114#206114) from March 29, 2006 where a lot of people are offering to back an independent site and Dunc is offering the Drivel as a place to talk about it.
Per McJ (SB2) somebody PM'ed Vivi on March 26, objecting to that thread about fucking WP members. On March 28 Intensity went down and Shima suspected hackers and McJ saw someone had manually disabled it from the admin panel. It was up again later that day and it sounds like that's when the callout was announced. Vetivert (Vivi) says she will respond on the Drivel, not wp. I think that was a previous incarnation of the Drivel and it won't be in the archives anymore. On March 29 Nman says he made a unilateral decision about Intensity and that he at that point trusts Vivi more than McJ. En una isla (shima) tells them to take the discussion back to Nlands and implies that she as another founding member of nlands is also hurt that nman is not considering their POV.
-
Oh, and yet another thing, Pyraxis: regarding objectivity, facts and all that, care to address that part about the facts behind Dunc's opinions about the plank vs yours about Lucifer hacking Intensity? As if they were comparable, which they are not, but I'm willing to play your game for this instance.
What aspect did you want addressed? It seemed clear to me. Though maybe I should have been more specific that McJ was the most outspoken about accusing Lucifer and I personally only suspected it later. At the time I suspected Nman of taking it down deliberately and didn't know about any hacking. In my original post about the history I didn't specify who made any of the accusations, because I wanted to give the impression that the whole thing was a chaotic panic. It was much later after working with Nman to try and get the database back up that I saw his old chatlogs with Lucifer and started to get a better picture of what was going on, on an interpersonal level.
-
Bullshit. You don't have the proof, only accusations, and you know it. Want to address Callaway's point if not mine?
Correct. I don't have proof. What I don't get is why you keep harping on it when I thought we agreed on that several pages back. There was an issue with the database, it might or might not have been caused intentionally but there's no real way to tell. How did it get so far under your skin?
Callaway might be right about the sequence of events, that Nman tried to arrrange the McJ/Vivi callout after Intensity went down for the first time. At this point I'm tempted to not even bother looking it up, just for the sake of needling you. I think she has access to the threads on Nlands as well, and more patience for archiving.
But here.
I see a threat from McJ on March 28, 2006 that he wants Intensity back up within 24 hours and Vivi to not have any say over whether it stayed, so at that point it was both down and the callout had been announced.
There's a thread on WrongPlanet here (http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.html?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=206114#206114) from March 29, 2006 where a lot of people are offering to back an independent site and Dunc is offering the Drivel as a place to talk about it.
Per McJ (SB2) somebody PM'ed Vivi on March 26, objecting to that thread about fucking WP members. On March 28 Intensity went down and Shima suspected hackers and McJ saw someone had manually disabled it from the admin panel. It was up again later that day and it sounds like that's when the callout was announced. Vetivert (Vivi) says she will respond on the Drivel, not wp. I think that was a previous incarnation of the Drivel and it won't be in the archives anymore. On March 29 Nman says he made a unilateral decision about Intensity and that he at that point trusts Vivi more than McJ. En una isla (shima) tells them to take the discussion back to Nlands and implies that she as another founding member of nlands is also hurt that nman is not considering their POV.
I don't have access to the Neurolands founder's forum. Do you?
I see Shima's point. My understanding is that several people including Shima, Tigerlily, McJagger, Hermit, and Neuroman founded the Neurolands together, so why was Neuroman making any unilateral decisions concerning it and as much as I like Vivi, what was he doing dragging her into the middle of a decision concerning Intensity, which was McJagger's site, not hers?
-
Wow, it's become even more intense.
No wonder the name. :autism:
-
I don't have access to the Neurolands founder's forum. Do you?
The threads I'm looking at are in Deleted Threads and in a forum called The Attic. I don't see a founder's forum. I know there was a forum deleted by shima the day nman gave me admin access to nlands, because it had private information. Could that have been it?
-
I don't have access to the Neurolands founder's forum. Do you?
The threads I'm looking at are in Deleted Threads and in a forum called The Attic. I don't see a founder's forum. I know there was a forum deleted by shima the day nman gave me admin access to nlands, because it had private information. Could that have been it?
I don't know whether it was or not, but I can't see Deleted Threads or The Attic, either.
-
Bullshit. You don't have the proof, only accusations, and you know it. Want to address Callaway's point if not mine?
Correct. I don't have proof. What I don't get is why you keep harping on it when I thought we agreed on that several pages back. There was an issue with the database, it might or might not have been caused intentionally but there's no real way to tell. How did it get so far under your skin?
It got under my skin? Hardly. I object when you accuse someone without proof and when you continue to imply it after, as you say, you thought we agreed several pages ago. I realise you feel I'm being difficult when I ask you to back it up or shut up, but that's the nature of this place.
Callaway might be right about the sequence of events, that Nman tried to arrrange the McJ/Vivi callout after Intensity went down for the first time. At this point I'm tempted to not even bother looking it up, just for the sake of needling you. I think she has access to the threads on Nlands as well, and more patience for archiving.
Needling me? /shrugs
I guess you are the one with an agenda, not me.
But here.
I see a threat from McJ on March 28, 2006 that he wants Intensity back up within 24 hours and Vivi to not have any say over whether it stayed, so at that point it was both down and the callout had been announced.
Proving what? That McJ was pissed?
There's a thread on WrongPlanet here (http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.html?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=206114#206114) from March 29, 2006 where a lot of people are offering to back an independent site and Dunc is offering the Drivel as a place to talk about it.
Which he often did back then. Proving what?
Per McJ (SB2) somebody PM'ed Vivi on March 26, objecting to that thread about fucking WP members. On March 28 Intensity went down and Shima suspected hackers and McJ saw someone had manually disabled it from the admin panel. It was up again later that day and it sounds like that's when the callout was announced. Vetivert (Vivi) says she will respond on the Drivel, not wp. I think that was a previous incarnation of the Drivel and it won't be in the archives anymore. On March 29 Nman says he made a unilateral decision about Intensity and that he at that point trusts Vivi more than McJ. En una isla (shima) tells them to take the discussion back to Nlands and implies that she as another founding member of nlands is also hurt that nman is not considering their POV.
Proving what?
-
Oh, and yet another thing, Pyraxis: regarding objectivity, facts and all that, care to address that part about the facts behind Dunc's opinions about the plank vs yours about Lucifer hacking Intensity? As if they were comparable, which they are not, but I'm willing to play your game for this instance.
What aspect did you want addressed? It seemed clear to me. Though maybe I should have been more specific that McJ was the most outspoken about accusing Lucifer and I personally only suspected it later. At the time I suspected Nman of taking it down deliberately and didn't know about any hacking. In my original post about the history I didn't specify who made any of the accusations, because I wanted to give the impression that the whole thing was a chaotic panic. It was much later after working with Nman to try and get the database back up that I saw his old chatlogs with Lucifer and started to get a better picture of what was going on, on an interpersonal level.
You were implying that your accusations re Lucifer were on the same level with Dunc's opinions about the plank. They are not. What Dunc thought about him at the time is well documented while your accusations are not.
That's the aspect I wanted you to address since you brought it up.
-
Wow, it's become even more intense.
No wonder the name. :autism:
It's old drama. Most of it is between the lines and very unlikely to be resolved anytime soon.
-
Check the recently edited post:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.0.html (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.0.html)
Reading through the latest posts in this thread, I notice what seems to be two sides contradicting each other concerning when the debate between McJagger and Lucifer was announced and when Intensity went down the first (and the second time?).
Who got the forum back up running. Neuroman or McJagger?
Pyraxis, would it be ok if I had access to those posts you speak of (as in sending them to me via PM)?
-
Check the recently edited post:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.0.html (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.0.html)
Reading through the latest posts in this thread, I notice what seems to be two sides contradicting each other concerning when the debate between McJagger and Lucifer was announced and when Intensity went down the first (and the second time?).
Who got the forum back up running. Neuroman or McJagger?
Pyraxis, would it be ok if I had access to those posts you speak of (as in sending them to me via PM)?
You might want to read this whole thread on WP as opposed to just the one post Pyraxis linked:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt12381.html (http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt12381.html)
In this WP thread, SB2 is McJagger or McMorrison here, vetivert is Vivi or Lucifer here, Neuroman is WolFish or Lazarus here, en_una_isla is Shima or hiroshima here, and hale_bopp has had many names here but I think her current one is Mr. Smith.
Neuroman got the first Intensity back up running (or checked the box that turned the board back on, according to McJagger), but I think when members logged in there, they couldn't see the board and were redirected to Ramoth Harbor, which I think was Vivi's site, then he wanted McJagger to debate Vivi (Lucifer here) concerning the future of Intensity. McJagger wound up accepting Dunc's offer to host a new Intensity on the same host as the Drivel that would be free of Neuroman's interference, and that's when INTENSITY² started, on April 1, 2006.
Pyraxis is not the only person who encouraged McJagger to accept Dunc's offer, BTW. There were many others.
You might also want to look at McJagger's callout of Neuroman here, whose posts reverted to tinkerjack when he deleted his account.
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,122.0.html (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,122.0.html)
Pyraxis says that she is speaking for Neuroman here, but I wonder why he can't just speak for himself. He's a member here and he's the one who has first-hand knowledge of what went on then, not her.
BTW, here's Pyraxis' callout of Lucifer, if you want an idea of the grudge Pyraxis holds against her:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,5064.0.html (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,5064.0.html)
-
Thanks again, Callaway. Those were some important and relevant links.
I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.
-
I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.
Ok, I'll tell him you and Callaway are looking for him. I don't think he reads most of I². It's hard to get his attention. :P But he'd also probably respond if you linked him here from one of the threads he started, like the one in the forum for people with actual problems.
-
I object when you accuse someone without proof and when you continue to imply it after, as you say, you thought we agreed several pages ago.
There's more than one thing to agree on. I acknowledge that we don't know who or what broke the database. Where do you think I'm implying something else?
I guess you are the one with an agenda, not me.
Everyone has a purpose.
As for all these other calls for proof, what makes you think the other info I posted was meant to convince you of anything? I was providing further information, people will take it as they will.
-
You were implying that your accusations re Lucifer were on the same level with Dunc's opinions about the plank. They are not. What Dunc thought about him at the time is well documented while your accusations are not.
That's the aspect I wanted you to address since you brought it up.
They weren't my accusations. Check the original post. I didn't name any accusers.
-
Pyraxis, would it be ok if I had access to those posts you speak of (as in sending them to me via PM)?
Lemme get back to you on that.
-
Pyraxis says that she is speaking for Neuroman here, but I wonder why he can't just speak for himself. He's a member here and he's the one who has first-hand knowledge of what went on then, not her.
He can speak for himself. However, Pyraxis has as close to first hand knowledge as you can get without being Neuroman.
He can speak for himself, except that he can't do it when there are a lot of words and there are a hell of a lot of words here. He would have to have his Jack/Neuroman hat on and he can't find it.
-
Thanks again, Callaway. Those were some important and relevant links.
I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.
I have always appreciated the opinion of the Abominable SnoCone:
My take on it...
all communities need their seedy bars, even the aspie community. But it doesn't make sense for the seedy bar to be right next to the glitzy respectable corporate office, even if half the employees go right to the seedy bar after work. It would make the corporate office look bad, give a bad first impression. So while I will miss Intensity I can understand the decision. I am sure someone will start a new Intensity-type site elsewhere and I look forward to letting loose again when it starts up
Had I to do it all over again I probably would, except not so many hands in the pot and Intensity on a separate server. And anyone but me to herd the cats. I only work well with the kind that have real fur and claws.
Neurolands was meant as a site where people could network for employment purposes. It was inspired by the failed efforts of another asper to do the same thing. Bob encouraged us to do it, but when the site went up he began encouraging people who were dissatisfied with WP to come there. All it took was one bad WP drama and the place was flooded with refugees.
Silly us, we tried to accommodate them. We cannot live in the real world so we had a marvelous idea. Create a city online. Divert people away from Nlands into places (suburbs=subforums) where they could be refugees or whatever they wanted. We asked for ideas. Intensity was one of them. Gestalt was another. Their leaders were given forums linked to Nlands.
Vivi objected to the way Intensity was being run. There were several attempts to try to divert her attention - she was given Ramoth Harbor and also set up as advisor to Gestalt. She ranted to Nman about how harmful Intensity was, how badly people there were treating women. Nman went and looked and liked what he saw so he refused to take it down - and yes, she did ask. Somewhere (because gmail deletes nothing) we have the archive of that.
Shortly after he refused, the site broke. And meanwhile, our techie, having had a misfortunate meeting with one of the other leaders of Nlands (there were 5), left. He reappeared long enough to express dismay at the turn of events (by then Bob was railing at Nman everywhere in public) and then he left for good. He refused to help. That left Nman, who was by then very ill, trying to fix the forum and keep his job which was being threatened by his supervisor who could be described as a bully. Nlands and Intensity were both broken. Gestalt, Ramoth Harbor, and another site (Sockpuppet Theater?) were unaffected. Nlands had a corrupted database entry. The same fix applied to Intensity fixed only part of the problem.
Bob, after much abusive language and disclosing of information previously agreed upon to be private, left to create this forum (I-squared). The Gestalt owner declared that Nman was trying to control her site because he asked her to display the Nlands logo along with her own (the subplot there was that she felt he was ignoring her advances, which, since they were personal and not of business nature, he did). She left after doing the same sort of thing that Bob did though on a smaller scale. She accused Nman of being controlling, etc.
Meanwhile, there were only two people left to run Nlands. Nman was literally sick and tired, so Wolf put on his construction helmet and did what he could. Vivi spent a lot of time messing with Nlands by doing heavily sexual flirting in inappropriate threads with one of the few people who managed to get himself banned from I2. He was stalking Shima, another leader of Nlands. A lot of people left. Some went to other places, some went back to WP and some came here.
Intensity was meant as a place where people could learn to stand up for themselves, to fight at least the verbal battle. The history of its start is on Nlands in one of the forums there.
The bottom line is that there were too many cooks, including one who stuck her head in the window and tried to get the whole stew thrown out.
Our mistake was in trying to use that as a diversion while we tried to fix something that was broken beyond our ability to fix it. We trusted no one to help (part of the same mistake). That meant it was about a year and a half before I realized how the database had been sabotaged. Someone had broken it; it wasn't us, but there was no one around to tell. Everyone was here by then.
There is a lot more to the story but I can't do it right now. Maybe later you can ask me questions. One of the reasons I don't come here a lot is that without Jack/Nman hat I have a hard time figuring out what to say. I'm seriously autistic.
Pyraxis is welcome to speak for me. She might be idealistic, opinionated and pugilistic, but she's intelligent and she doesn't lie. And even if it takes her a few days or a few weeks, she can ken a lot of words.
I on the other hand, now have a severe headache and will have to kill countless zombies and innocent plants until the painkillers kick in.
-
I object when you accuse someone without proof and when you continue to imply it after, as you say, you thought we agreed several pages ago.
There's more than one thing to agree on. I acknowledge that we don't know who or what broke the database. Where do you think I'm implying something else?
I guess you are the one with an agenda, not me.
Everyone has a purpose.
As for all these other calls for proof, what makes you think the other info I posted was meant to convince you of anything? I was providing further information, people will take it as they will.
Actually you were doing what you always do, manipulating and shit-stirring, furthering your own agenda. The same with the Lucifer callout, ages ago, the same when you always attack me and others on your blacklist when given a chance. Don't make it sound like something altruistic, "providing further information", when it's not. It's in your MO to insinuate and to imply, and then to take a few steps back when your motives are questioned.
People can read for themselves, I guess.
-
Wolf--how was the db sabotaged?
-
Actually you were doing what you always do, manipulating and shit-stirring, furthering your own agenda. The same with the Lucifer callout, ages ago, the same when you always attack me and others on your blacklist when given a chance. Don't make it sound like something altruistic, "providing further information", when it's not. It's in your MO to insinuate and to imply, and then to take a few steps back when your motives are questioned.
People can read for themselves, I guess.
I think it's amusing and telling that you're practicing pattern-spotting on me. What if I told you that you were right? Would you then start pattern-spotting the rest of this drama? Because that might actually be worth it to me.
I honestly was giving more information for the sake of information, because I was glad that Calavera was interested. That was one purpose though, and I usually have more than one.
-
Thanks again, Callaway. Those were some important and relevant links.
I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.
I have always appreciated the opinion of the Abominable SnoCone:
My take on it...
all communities need their seedy bars, even the aspie community. But it doesn't make sense for the seedy bar to be right next to the glitzy respectable corporate office, even if half the employees go right to the seedy bar after work. It would make the corporate office look bad, give a bad first impression. So while I will miss Intensity I can understand the decision. I am sure someone will start a new Intensity-type site elsewhere and I look forward to letting loose again when it starts up
Had I to do it all over again I probably would, except not so many hands in the pot and Intensity on a separate server. And anyone but me to herd the cats. I only work well with the kind that have real fur and claws.
Neurolands was meant as a site where people could network for employment purposes. It was inspired by the failed efforts of another asper to do the same thing. Bob encouraged us to do it, but when the site went up he began encouraging people who were dissatisfied with WP to come there. All it took was one bad WP drama and the place was flooded with refugees.
Silly us, we tried to accommodate them. We cannot live in the real world so we had a marvelous idea. Create a city online. Divert people away from Nlands into places (suburbs=subforums) where they could be refugees or whatever they wanted. We asked for ideas. Intensity was one of them. Gestalt was another. Their leaders were given forums linked to Nlands.
Vivi objected to the way Intensity was being run. There were several attempts to try to divert her attention - she was given Ramoth Harbor and also set up as advisor to Gestalt. She ranted to Nman about how harmful Intensity was, how badly people there were treating women. Nman went and looked and liked what he saw so he refused to take it down - and yes, she did ask. Somewhere (because gmail deletes nothing) we have the archive of that.
Shortly after he refused, the site broke. And meanwhile, our techie, having had a misfortunate meeting with one of the other leaders of Nlands (there were 5), left. He reappeared long enough to express dismay at the turn of events (by then Bob was railing at Nman everywhere in public) and then he left for good. He refused to help. That left Nman, who was by then very ill, trying to fix the forum and keep his job which was being threatened by his supervisor who could be described as a bully. Nlands and Intensity were both broken. Gestalt, Ramoth Harbor, and another site (Sockpuppet Theater?) were unaffected. Nlands had a corrupted database entry. The same fix applied to Intensity fixed only part of the problem.
Bob, after much abusive language and disclosing of information previously agreed upon to be private, left to create this forum (I-squared). The Gestalt owner declared that Nman was trying to control her site because he asked her to display the Nlands logo along with her own (the subplot there was that she felt he was ignoring her advances, which, since they were personal and not of business nature, he did). She left after doing the same sort of thing that Bob did though on a smaller scale. She accused Nman of being controlling, etc.
Meanwhile, there were only two people left to run Nlands. Nman was literally sick and tired, so Wolf put on his construction helmet and did what he could. Vivi spent a lot of time messing with Nlands by doing heavily sexual flirting in inappropriate threads with one of the few people who managed to get himself banned from I2. He was stalking Shima, another leader of Nlands. A lot of people left. Some went to other places, some went back to WP and some came here.
Intensity was meant as a place where people could learn to stand up for themselves, to fight at least the verbal battle. The history of its start is on Nlands in one of the forums there.
The bottom line is that there were too many cooks, including one who stuck her head in the window and tried to get the whole stew thrown out.
Our mistake was in trying to use that as a diversion while we tried to fix something that was broken beyond our ability to fix it. We trusted no one to help (part of the same mistake). That meant it was about a year and a half before I realized how the database had been sabotaged. Someone had broken it; it wasn't us, but there was no one around to tell. Everyone was here by then.
There is a lot more to the story but I can't do it right now. Maybe later you can ask me questions. One of the reasons I don't come here a lot is that without Jack/Nman hat I have a hard time figuring out what to say. I'm seriously autistic.
Pyraxis is welcome to speak for me. She might be idealistic, opinionated and pugilistic, but she's intelligent and she doesn't lie. And even if it takes her a few days or a few weeks, she can ken a lot of words.
I on the other hand, now have a severe headache and will have to kill countless zombies and innocent plants until the painkillers kick in.
I'm sorry about your headache, but I'm glad that you answered, Wolfish.
I remember Vivi being an advisor to Gestalt and I remember her flirting on the Neurolands with JC/Hiro/whatever his screen name was there at the time. At the time I wondered why she was doing it and later I wondered if it was meant to make you jealous.
When you have time, I would really like to know just how the database was sabotaged. I'm guessing that you mean that sabotage implies that it was a deliberate act and that you didn't do it?
-
I'm confused by the reference to a "Jack hat" ???
-
Actually you were doing what you always do, manipulating and shit-stirring, furthering your own agenda. The same with the Lucifer callout, ages ago, the same when you always attack me and others on your blacklist when given a chance. Don't make it sound like something altruistic, "providing further information", when it's not. It's in your MO to insinuate and to imply, and then to take a few steps back when your motives are questioned.
People can read for themselves, I guess.
I think it's amusing and telling that you're practicing pattern-spotting on me. What if I told you that you were right? Would you then start pattern-spotting the rest of this drama? Because that might actually be worth it to me.
I honestly was giving more information for the sake of information, because I was glad that Calavera was interested. That was one purpose though, and I usually have more than one.
I've come to expect a certain kind of post from you, actually, so yes, I think I'm right. Your confirmation might show some honesty in that respect but tbh, I'd be interested in knowing what your agenda was then.
This current drama is far from new, just a variation on a theme. I expect you to have spotted that theme.
-
Wolf--how was the db sabotaged?
I don't know if it was the database or the forum software. I made notes about what I did but i can't remember. someone asked about the "Jack hat" so i will say that my brain works like that - no access to the Jack hat means i can't remember what that part of me did. bash at that as you will, it is what it is.
at any rate, what i remember is that i tried to log in to the site and it wasn't there. i went in and tried re-installing the forum software - it was the phpBB2 with no mods at all. the reason i did that is because the forums were still working, so i thought something had corrupted the software. reinstalling didn't work, so i started comparing the innards. i found something different in the nlands, so i changed it to what it was in the gestalt db - that worked.
i tried same thing with the intensity db - it didn't work so i put up one with the database all cleared out. that worked but only for a little bit. when it went down again i could not figure out how to fix it. i sent copies of the db to bob and one other person (can't remember who) but they said the files were unreadable.
sometime in 2007, i think, i moved nlands to another server and it broke the way intensity had broken. by then i was seriously ill and nothing to do all day so i screwed around with it until i fixed it. i applied the same fix to the intensity database and it worked.
i had used some software to move nlands - it was called big something and claimed to be able to move your software all on its own - no need to zip and move the sql files yourself. it didn't work. so i tried moving each file separately - zipping each of the 30+ files and then unzipping them in the place where i had installed phpBB2. i think i installed a new db and then copied the old files over the new places. as you can see i still barely know what i am doing, much less talking about. remember my recent screwup of my home forum? i fixed that one by messing with things and copying what looked like it would work. i freely admit that with nlands and intensity i was in over my head. hazards of autistic gullibility, i suppose.
so i am guessing that in the case of intensity, both the settings and the sql files were messed with. only three people had access to the server - shima, hermit and me. in one case the files were changed, in another probably the settings. both required server access.
the computer on which i did this stuff had an irrevocable crash so if the old files are anywhere they are archived on a disc - one would hope a CD, but again, i was pretty sick so who knows? i am fairly certain that the whole of the old intensity (the one that was fixed) still lives on my server. i just took it down, i didn't delete it. if you want i could send you the files.
-
I'm confused by the reference to a "Jack hat" ???
think of it as having a highly compartmentalized mind - compartmentalized to the point of disability. if the compartments are rooms, then some rooms get locked and i can't remember wtf i was thinking.
-
I'm confused by the reference to a "Jack hat" ???
think of it as having a highly compartmentalized mind - compartmentalized to the point of disability. if the compartments are rooms, then some rooms get locked and i can't remember wtf i was thinking.
Nobody wants to bash, was just curious is all. :angel:
-
Wolf--how was the db sabotaged?
I don't know if it was the database or the forum software. I made notes about what I did but i can't remember. someone asked about the "Jack hat" so i will say that my brain works like that - no access to the Jack hat means i can't remember what that part of me did. bash at that as you will, it is what it is.
at any rate, what i remember is that i tried to log in to the site and it wasn't there. i went in and tried re-installing the forum software - it was the phpBB2 with no mods at all. the reason i did that is because the forums were still working, so i thought something had corrupted the software. reinstalling didn't work, so i started comparing the innards. i found something different in the nlands, so i changed it to what it was in the gestalt db - that worked.
i tried same thing with the intensity db - it didn't work so i put up one with the database all cleared out. that worked but only for a little bit. when it went down again i could not figure out how to fix it. i sent copies of the db to bob and one other person (can't remember who) but they said the files were unreadable.
sometime in 2007, i think, i moved nlands to another server and it broke the way intensity had broken. by then i was seriously ill and nothing to do all day so i screwed around with it until i fixed it. i applied the same fix to the intensity database and it worked.
i had used some software to move nlands - it was called big something and claimed to be able to move your software all on its own - no need to zip and move the sql files yourself. it didn't work. so i tried moving each file separately - zipping each of the 30+ files and then unzipping them in the place where i had installed phpBB2. i think i installed a new db and then copied the old files over the new places. as you can see i still barely know what i am doing, much less talking about. remember my recent screwup of my home forum? i fixed that one by messing with things and copying what looked like it would work. i freely admit that with nlands and intensity i was in over my head. hazards of autistic gullibility, i suppose.
so i am guessing that in the case of intensity, both the settings and the sql files were messed with. only three people had access to the server - shima, hermit and me. in one case the files were changed, in another probably the settings. both required server access.
the computer on which i did this stuff had an irrevocable crash so if the old files are anywhere they are archived on a disc - one would hope a CD, but again, i was pretty sick so who knows? i am fairly certain that the whole of the old intensity (the one that was fixed) still lives on my server. i just took it down, i didn't delete it. if you want i could send you the files.
Sure, that would be good. If possible, maybe they could be set up here as a read-only? Want me to PM you with the details?
Thanks for the info, Wolf. Did you use the script they call bigdump, by any chance? I use a variation of it for backups.
BTW, something similar but not quite as bad happened here when we moved the site from Dunc's space to mine. The board started crashing regularly, which I'm sure people remember. Still not a hundred percent sure what happened but I've managed to put a stop to the crashes.
-
bigdump sounds familiar.
i will look for the files - pretty sure they are still on the server; and send them.
i will pm when i find them. it will take a little while because i am pretty sick right now and that might require more tech than i have available at the moment.
could i just send the files and you could do what you want with them? afaik there is nothing hidden because everything was public.
-
Thanks, WolFish.
Please review this bit with me.
So Intensity and Neurolands mysteriously went down. Then Neuroman managed to get both back up but didn't re-enable Intensity. This was when McJagger noted how he couldn't access the actual forum itself because he found that the setting for disabling the forum was checked. He didn't uncheck it but talked about it on Neurolands. And then when he tried to access the admin panel for Intensity the next time, he couldn't. Was this because you weren't pleased with him disclosing private information to the public so you disabled the admin access for him? Just making sure.
Why did you arrange that there be a debate between McJagger and Lucifer concerning Intensity? Was this while McJagger had no admin access to Intensity? And did the second time that Intensity went down occur after all these mentioned events? And was it shortly after?
Also, did the debate actually happen?
-
I honestly was giving more information for the sake of information, because I was glad that Calavera was interested. That was one purpose though, and I usually have more than one.
I've come to expect a certain kind of post from you, actually, so yes, I think I'm right. Your confirmation might show some honesty in that respect but tbh, I'd be interested in knowing what your agenda was then.
Ok, lemme see. If I'm understanding right, you're talking about this post in particular (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18551.msg825011.html#msg825011).
At that point you had told Calavera you thought it was bad form to repeat what you thought was baseless accusation, and implied that it was me accusing Lucifer because I didn't like her. He edited his history post and asked if it was more objective now. You said it was.
I was pissed off and immediately read that as an attack, so priority one was to defend. I found evidence you were being biased - the fact that you wanted the accusation against Lucifer gone but didn't care about the one against Alex - and said it. The thing is, Odeon, that McJagger was the loudest person accusing Lucifer. Not me. You were being distracted by my callout of her, which happened more than a year later. Repeating the accusations is only a part of the history, to demonstrate the chaos and the feeling of the time. This isn't a technical manual, this is a community, and the sordid details interest people as well as the objective facts. I was fair in giving all three accusations - against Lucifer, against Nman and against the hacker group - but you were only concerned with the one against Lucifer. That shows bias on your part, not mine. If anything, my last-second jab at Alex is irrelevant spin doctoring (and yes it was intentional), but you still don't object to it.
I wanted to remove the pretense at objectivity from the picture. IMO it's far worse to strive for objectivity in matters of people, clearly fail, and then deny it endlessly as if by denying it you can make it so, than it is to acknowledge bias and compensate for it by allowing for a variety of perspectives. This thread gives a truer history than any amalgamation Calavera will be able to cobble together, and the source material gives an even truer one. But I know that some people will only bother with the shallow summary, hence my irritation.
Does that answer your question?
-
Odeon said it was a baseless accusation. It's not fair to mention Lucifer as being suspect in a public history post if there's not one basis shown for such an accusation.
I removed that bit because he had a point about it. It's like saying that Calavera was accused of murder (when there's no basis for it) and mentioning it in a book about criminals and such.
Doesn't sound right. So I also removed the bit against Neuroman also.
However, I do agree that Odeon is biased for Lucifer, but that's what friendships are about basically.
-
Odeon - dunno if it helps any, but I found these error messages on Nlands from when they were trying to fix the database.
here is the error message:
phpBB : Critical Error
Error doing DB query userdata row fetch
DEBUG MODE
SQL Error : 1016 Can't open file: 'phpbb_sessions.MYI'. (errno: 145)
SELECT u.*, s.* FROM phpbb_sessions s, phpbb_users u WHERE s.session_id = 'ba76fb8d64f158e6431ac0a038da7901' AND u.user_id = s.session_user_id
Line : 319
File : sessions.php
phpBB : Critical Error
Could not query database for theme info
DEBUG MODE
SQL Error : 1064 You have an error in your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 3
i got this after i did a backup and restore. now i can't do anything.
why did this work for the neurolands and not for intensity?
use some big swear words.
the reason it didn't work is because the files are all EMPTY.
i don't know if we even have the structure.
the only hope is that it was cached somewhere by google.
i was thinking we would rebuild by putting back the posts we could. now they are all gone.
i am hugely depressed.
i give up.
who the f--- is getting into my database?
is the neurolands next?
the db is empty? Hm, I was just assuming it was a worm type thing, not a personal attack, but maybe, maybe it's worse than that. Hm I shall look around a bit tonight.
so is there a way to salvage a damaged table in mysql?
if it's damaged in the database, as in, file errors, can't be read, then no.
But if it's just 'damaged' as in altered in such a way that phpBB can't read it, then you should be able to go through the table entries one by one and get the info out.
But it sounds like it may be a moot point anyway.
that is what the errors were. can't be read.
but what is mystifying is that only one file in the neurolands was corrupted and after i emptied it it worked fine. and as far as i can tell nothing is empty.
but looking at the other dbs, each has an error alert which i think/hope has more to do with being logged into more than one forum at a time.
intensity was the worst. i couldn't open sessions and there were problems with others like posts and post text.
now it is all gone. all the members, all the good stuff. i don't mind losing the bad, but i feel like someone took things into their own hands and did not leave us to fix it.
now we have to start all over. i would have preferred just to start with empty forums. but i think we lost all the registrations as well.
arg. i asked someone else and they said if someone had gotten into the db it is a pretty serious problem. i should have tried to back it up first thing when it went down.
so i am going to reinstall the forum and then see if i can do a restore of the structure.
but everyone will have to re-register.
arg.
i was able to get onto intensity yesterday.
i was only able to access the administration panel
while i was there, i noticed another person logged on as guest.
twice.
i did the trace and these are them. the first one was there for a while that one originated in the UK.
the second one was probably only at the announcement screen, they were there for a short time and they were from australia.
also i tried backing up the datatbase just as hermit suggested. but it wont open.
it only took a few seconds to complete.
but i also did a backup, and did it as download later.
and it is still waiting. dont know if these help. but i am on lunch from work right now.
turned off "allow html".
turns out it's a vulerability. Will explain tomorrow. Not saying it's how they got in, just a potential risk that's better off minimized at the moment. G'night all.
that is very interesting.
allow html should be turned off on all the forums. it is the way i set them up - yes for security reasons.
mcj, did you turn yours on? because if you didn't then you have a problem and not with the software.
The thread ends there.
-
bigdump sounds familiar.
i will look for the files - pretty sure they are still on the server; and send them.
i will pm when i find them. it will take a little while because i am pretty sick right now and that might require more tech than i have available at the moment.
could i just send the files and you could do what you want with them? afaik there is nothing hidden because everything was public.
Sure thing--thanks! Get better soon!
-
I honestly was giving more information for the sake of information, because I was glad that Calavera was interested. That was one purpose though, and I usually have more than one.
I've come to expect a certain kind of post from you, actually, so yes, I think I'm right. Your confirmation might show some honesty in that respect but tbh, I'd be interested in knowing what your agenda was then.
Ok, lemme see. If I'm understanding right, you're talking about this post in particular (http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18551.msg825011.html#msg825011).
At that point you had told Calavera you thought it was bad form to repeat what you thought was baseless accusation, and implied that it was me accusing Lucifer because I didn't like her. He edited his history post and asked if it was more objective now. You said it was.
I was pissed off and immediately read that as an attack, so priority one was to defend. I found evidence you were being biased - the fact that you wanted the accusation against Lucifer gone but didn't care about the one against Alex - and said it. The thing is, Odeon, that McJagger was the loudest person accusing Lucifer. Not me. You were being distracted by my callout of her, which happened more than a year later. Repeating the accusations is only a part of the history, to demonstrate the chaos and the feeling of the time. This isn't a technical manual, this is a community, and the sordid details interest people as well as the objective facts. I was fair in giving all three accusations - against Lucifer, against Nman and against the hacker group - but you were only concerned with the one against Lucifer. That shows bias on your part, not mine. If anything, my last-second jab at Alex is irrelevant spin doctoring (and yes it was intentional), but you still don't object to it.
I wanted to remove the pretense at objectivity from the picture. IMO it's far worse to strive for objectivity in matters of people, clearly fail, and then deny it endlessly as if by denying it you can make it so, than it is to acknowledge bias and compensate for it by allowing for a variety of perspectives. This thread gives a truer history than any amalgamation Calavera will be able to cobble together, and the source material gives an even truer one. But I know that some people will only bother with the shallow summary, hence my irritation.
Does that answer your question?
Yes it does. Thanks.
I think you are right about perspectives--since there were a lot of ideas and theories about what happened, it might be a good idea to present them all. While I strongly disagree with the notion of Lucifer taking down the site (both because I know her well and think that would be completely against her MO, and because she isn't capable of that kind of sabotage, AFAIK), that one and any others are perhaps best served by simply listing them all.
I know Lucifer wouldn't care, really. She said as much back then.
I have not claimed I'm unbiased. You and I both have bias but in this case, I think I had less of an agenda than you if that makes any sense. But, I realised that I read your initial post here in that light and that coloured my reply. Then I was just pissed off. :laugh:
It would be ironic to censor the often-repeated theories about what happened, considering what this site is.
-
Yes, they do help. Interesting.
Odeon - dunno if it helps any, but I found these error messages on Nlands from when they were trying to fix the database.
here is the error message:
phpBB : Critical Error
Error doing DB query userdata row fetch
DEBUG MODE
SQL Error : 1016 Can't open file: 'phpbb_sessions.MYI'. (errno: 145)
SELECT u.*, s.* FROM phpbb_sessions s, phpbb_users u WHERE s.session_id = 'ba76fb8d64f158e6431ac0a038da7901' AND u.user_id = s.session_user_id
Line : 319
File : sessions.php
This simply says that the database table is crashed (1016) and a repair has not been attempted (145). The table is the sessions table so if phpBB works in a similar way to SMF I'd just drop the sessions table and create an empty one.
The sessions table can normally be dropped without dire consequences. It's just info on currently logged-in people and that kind of stuff.
If there is a db dump from this state, I suspect it is possible to repair the thing.
phpBB : Critical Error
Could not query database for theme info
DEBUG MODE
SQL Error : 1064 You have an error in your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 3
i got this after i did a backup and restore. now i can't do anything.
why did this work for the neurolands and not for intensity?
I'd say that there were several versions of MySQL running in parallel (or mixed), which can be a bad thing. Could it have been an upgrade by the host?
use some big swear words.
the reason it didn't work is because the files are all EMPTY.
i don't know if we even have the structure.
the only hope is that it was cached somewhere by google.
i was thinking we would rebuild by putting back the posts we could. now they are all gone.
i am hugely depressed.
i give up.
who the f--- is getting into my database?
is the neurolands next?
the db is empty? Hm, I was just assuming it was a worm type thing, not a personal attack, but maybe, maybe it's worse than that. Hm I shall look around a bit tonight.
so is there a way to salvage a damaged table in mysql?
if it's damaged in the database, as in, file errors, can't be read, then no.
But if it's just 'damaged' as in altered in such a way that phpBB can't read it, then you should be able to go through the table entries one by one and get the info out.
But it sounds like it may be a moot point anyway.
that is what the errors were. can't be read.
but what is mystifying is that only one file in the neurolands was corrupted and after i emptied it it worked fine. and as far as i can tell nothing is empty.
but looking at the other dbs, each has an error alert which i think/hope has more to do with being logged into more than one forum at a time.
intensity was the worst. i couldn't open sessions and there were problems with others like posts and post text.
now it is all gone. all the members, all the good stuff. i don't mind losing the bad, but i feel like someone took things into their own hands and did not leave us to fix it.
now we have to start all over. i would have preferred just to start with empty forums. but i think we lost all the registrations as well.
arg. i asked someone else and they said if someone had gotten into the db it is a pretty serious problem. i should have tried to back it up first thing when it went down.
so i am going to reinstall the forum and then see if i can do a restore of the structure.
but everyone will have to re-register.
arg.
i was able to get onto intensity yesterday.
i was only able to access the administration panel
while i was there, i noticed another person logged on as guest.
twice.
i did the trace and these are them. the first one was there for a while that one originated in the UK.
the second one was probably only at the announcement screen, they were there for a short time and they were from australia.
also i tried backing up the datatbase just as hermit suggested. but it wont open.
it only took a few seconds to complete.
but i also did a backup, and did it as download later.
and it is still waiting. dont know if these help. but i am on lunch from work right now.
turned off "allow html".
turns out it's a vulerability. Will explain tomorrow. Not saying it's how they got in, just a potential risk that's better off minimized at the moment. G'night all.
that is very interesting.
allow html should be turned off on all the forums. it is the way i set them up - yes for security reasons.
mcj, did you turn yours on? because if you didn't then you have a problem and not with the software.
The thread ends there.
-
Haven't forgotten about this thread. Just need time to recover from the out of the ordinary night out last night.
-
Cool. Me either. What were you up to last night?
-
A couple of things.
Yes Ascan was a cunt. I can't remember who was in the original WC but I remember a couple of my thoughts. I wanted it to be well representative of different time zones so that members could get help on the forum when needed. And I was also interested in people who were not sycophants because I wanted to keep an edge. Leaders who surround he selves by yes men get lost in their own glory and invincibility. I didn't want to become that type of admin on a site which was supposed to promote the idea of people sticking up for themselves.
Post person and Asian fit that criteria....I think there were others though.
Calloway certainly remembers more of the details than I do. She quickly became a trusted member and advocate for intensity. I remember quickly relying on her as a mentor (against others advice). She was an influential person from the beginning. She deserves much credit for the entire evolution.
I had no desire to stay on as an active member let alone as an administrator. My son was born in December of 2006. I felt the need to give more time to my family.
So, I made some mistakes. What I was trying to accomplish was a self sustaining democratic community which was free. Where leaders could come and go without notice. Things would remain he same.
But, how do you deal with the flares of drama. People pick sides and stake claims. And those in power never want to yield an inch. So I got this ill conceived idea to stage a coup. Where the current admins were de-admined by the admin for a day, shima. I was hoping people would understand and hat I could guide this by sheer force of will. Thinking that it is important to teach people not to yield to authority, but to, from time to time, stake heir own claim.
I couldn't control it and people got butt hurt to the nth degree. Nobody understood. Grudges were held.
I held trust my word an stopped posting regularly shortly after my son was born.
Intensity has been status quo for several years now. It's a pub atmosphere. The original idea became a failed experiment.
-
I can't be arsed to correct the misspelled or auto correct words. You get the gist.
-
It was a nice idea but very idealistic and very naive.
There were two such experiments of note here. The first one was the one before the coup, the second a year and a half later. I do think Dunc was the one to suggest the second attempt.
I still think this place can help enable the spazzes so all was not in vain. People learn to express themselves and to take a stand.
As for the pub atmosphere, that happened simply as a side effect of the relative lack of moderation.