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Author Topic: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz  (Read 17628 times)

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Offline Nocturnalist!

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 01:50:09 PM »
Right so you think putting a pre-cursor of "Let's face it" makes it Fact?  :clap:

Nah. The fact that what you considered as my lack of respect towards you was one of the things you whittered on about in PMs with me. :violin:

Quote from: PM to me from Sir_Les
I honestly don't care what you insist or demand. Prepared to treat me with respect and common courtesy and who knows?

See. Your very first whine at me was all about what you perceived as my lack of respect and courtesy towards you... after you had been very discourteous towards another member of the forum I Adminned. You seem to think you automatically deserve respect and do not realise that it is earned. :green:

Interesting I will try.
"Let's face it, you're an idiot".

When I was a school boy I had a Maths teacher who spoke to my parents concerned that I might be mentally retarded. So you're not alone in thinking this ;D No shame in being an idiot. I don't think you're the brightest tool in the box either. :-*
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 01:52:56 PM by Nocturnalist! »

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 03:02:50 PM »
Ah what a knob. That was not a whine. That was just saying that the way to best put things to me was wit a bit of respect and courtesy, IF you wanted less"friction". In the same way that putting the metal knife in the toaster is not going to be the best way to get out the toast UNLESS you don't care about being electrocuted ( recommend this to you wholeheartedly). I honestly don't give a fuck. Do whatever blows your hair back. I do this you are derailing poor Mr Illusionists's thread here though and I think he wants to tell you some nice ideas about how millions of Jews weren't killed in death camps and stuff. Such disrespect shown to him too.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 04:07:44 PM by Sir_Les_Patterson »
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Nocturnalist!

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 07:39:54 PM »
That was not a whine.

OK, it was a widdle puppy yelp then :smarty: - lol

Offline IlluSionS667

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2008, 03:43:22 AM »
Don't worry, I'm simply being honest about how I view revisionist history regarding the Holocaust.

You try to be honest while refraining from insults and I can only respect that.

I'm a traditionalist at present time because I see no reason not to be. If the Holocaust happened, which I certainly believe it did, then it is rather revolting to try and say it didn't happen. I am open to examine some of the evidence though when I have the time... and it may lead me into further exploration, but that is my position at present. :)

Is it also revolting to question whether the US had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor? Is it also revolting to question whether the CIA and/or Mossad were involved in the attacks of 9/11? Is it also revolting to question whether or not the Lusitania contained explosives? Is it also revolting you question whether Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, James Earl Ray, Talmadge Hayer and John Patler were all lone gunmen?

Why is it that fairly few people tend to get emotional when someone questions the status quo on the topics mentioned above, whereas they get angry or disgusted when someone questions the status quo with regards to the fate of the Jews during WW2? Why does this particular part of our history get so much attention, including the erection of dozens of monuments all over the Western world and special censorship laws in various countries? Why have faculties been dedicated to just this particular topic?

Some argue that (under the assumption that the Holocaust myth is entirely factual) it is the worst crime in the history of man. I wonder what measures of comparison are used, though. US and English bombers killed tends of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people in a single day and under the most horrible circumstances in cities like Hiroshima, Nagasaki or Dresden. During the latest years of WW2 and in its aftermath, millions of innocent Germans were forced out of their homes, tortured, raped or killed by the allies. Others found their deaths in one of the Russian or American camps. Communist leaders like Trotsky, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao are responsible for the death of many many millions under the most horrible circumstances. Hutus and Tutsis have been killing one another for years in Rwanda. During the Boer Wars, the British sent women and children to concentration camps with little food and medicine (on purpose !) to discourage the Boer fighters at the front as their family was dying in those camps. etc. etc. The Holocaust myth is hardly the only reference to man's inhumanity to man and even if the myth was entirely true, one should wonder what makes it stand out among the many crimes against humanity commited during the last 150 years alone.

Some argue that denying that 6 million Jews died as a consequence of genocide is similar to a call for genocide. This is a completely illogical statement, however, that holds no ground. Even if it were true that all Holocaust Revisionists were national-socialist apologists or antisemites (which is far from the truth), then this is by no means an indication that Holocaust Revisionism is remotely linked to a call for genocide. Such a link is an obvious attempt to silence debate by stirring emotions.

Yet, even those arguments shouldn't be a reason to stop or discourage objective research into the events that took place between 1933 and 1945 with regards to the Jews in German controlled territories. If there is even the slightest reason to doubt the status quo, then one should be able to examen the evidence and find out whether or not another conclusion might fit the evidence better. Currently, this has been made impossible by especially ancient aliens (who use the Holocaust myth for both political and monetary gain).

I suggest you watch at least one of the videos in the first post of this thread and post a review of it in this thread after you finished watching. It would give you some insight into the arguments used by Holocaust revisionists, it would liven up the debate and would only take a small amount of time ;)

Offline Nocturnalist!

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2008, 05:28:06 AM »
I'm a traditionalist at present time because I see no reason not to be. If the Holocaust happened, which I certainly believe it did, then it is rather revolting to try and say it didn't happen.

Is it also revolting to question whether the US had prior knowledge of Pearl Harbor? Is it also revolting to question whether the CIA and/or Mossad were involved in the attacks of 9/11? Is it also revolting to question whether or not the Lusitania contained explosives? Is it also revolting you question whether Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, Mark David Chapman, James Earl Ray, Talmadge Hayer and John Patler were all lone gunmen?

I don't think the CIA or Mossad had a hand in 9/11 too much risk of exposure if they were found out (I've heard the tale that Jewish workers in the towers stayed away on that day... but that is a rumour with no truth to it)... but I think it is likely American Intelligence services had pre-warning of the attack and didn't take heed - because they get a lot of warnings. Much the same as happens in many serial killer cases, where crucial evidence can get lost among bogus evidence. I also think the Bush administration used 9?11 as an excuse to wage war on Saddam... awful despot that he was, the reasons for that second Gulf War were bogus. I think Pearl Harbour happened because of a whole clutch of mistakes that, looking back on, seem very foolish.

I tend to be skeptical about most conspiracy theories I hear, but some hold water and seem to add up, whilst many others are quite far fetched. Governments and officials are usually opportunists rather than clever enough to hatch many of the schemes some suspect :)

Offline IlluSionS667

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2008, 05:41:24 AM »
I don't think the CIA or Mossad had a hand in 9/11 too much risk of exposure if they were found out

CIA, Mossad and MI6 have quite a long history of staging world events and manipulating public opinion. You seriously underestimate their potential and the gullibility of common man. Most people are willing to accept just about anything when it is told to them by their history teacher or the New York Times.

I've heard the tale that Jewish workers in the towers stayed away on that day... but that is a rumour with no truth to it

Maybe that rumour was spread to discredit the most gullible conspiracy theorists and by proxy the 9/11 movement in general ;)

The extatic Israeli watching the events from the top of a building, that was factual. They were even interviewed on public television.

I've Much the same as happens in many serial killer cases, where crucial evidence can get lost among bogus evidence.

Serial killers are another thing, but the political assassinations of the '60s just smell like CIA hits. Especially the JFK and Bobby Kennedy assassinations have CIA written all over them.

I tend to be skeptical about most conspiracy theories I hear, but some hold water and seem to add up, whilst many others are quite far fetched.

I tend to be skeptical about all explanations of world events, both from so-called "conspiracy theorists" and the mainstream media. I have no reason to trust your average "conspiracy theorist" but I don't have any reason to trust the mainstream media either. As long as you start taking either for granted, you're allowing yourself to be manipulated.

Anyway, will you watch any of the films from my first post? You seem to be avoiding that for a reason unclear to me.....

Offline Nocturnalist!

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2008, 06:30:39 AM »
Anyway, will you watch any of the films from my first post? You seem to be avoiding that for a reason unclear to me.....

Be patient. I intend to watch them. Last time I tried the links didn't work. I trust they will work when next I try. I'm not likely to give much feedback on them though. They will either spark my interest to investigate further, or they won't. I'll tell you if they don't :)

You can only present your point of view and evidence you see as supporting it. Most of us cannot make another person accept things if they don't wish or don't see it the way we do... if you try it'll just stress you out eventually, espeiclally if few people listen :)

It will take a lot of time and a lot of research for me to adopt a new position if at all. I'll be honest, it is unlikely that I will change my mind.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 06:32:28 AM by Nocturnalist! »

Offline IlluSionS667

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2008, 06:49:03 AM »
Be patient. I intend to watch them. Last time I tried the links didn't work. I trust they will work when next I try. I'm not likely to give much feedback on them though. They will either spark my interest to investigate further, or they won't. I'll tell you if they don't :)

Fair enough. I can strongly recommend the David Cole vid (first two links). This, partly because the author is Jewish himself, which makes an antisemitic agenda unlikely. Another reason is because his technique consists of asking questions rather than making conclusions. As such, you do not feel pushed into accepting his conclusions. He rather encourages you to think for yourself.

You can only present your point of view and evidence you see as supporting it.

Not really. I can also present evidence for the other side and explain why it fails to prove anything. I studied the two perspectives, you know  ;)

Most of us cannot make another person accept things if they don't wish or don't see it the way we do...

I don't want to make anyone accept anything. I just want to encourage people to do some more research and not only look at issues from one particular perspective but rather from all possible angles.

It will take a lot of time and a lot of research for me to adopt a new position if at all. I'll be honest, it is unlikely that I will change my mind.

At least on surface you appear to be willing to look into the issue rather than dismissing the alternative view right away. That's more than I can say of most people out here....

Offline Nocturnalist!

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2008, 07:00:16 AM »
It will take a lot of time and a lot of research for me to adopt a new position if at all. I'll be honest, it is unlikely that I will change my mind.

At least on surface you appear to be willing to look into the issue rather than dismissing the alternative view right away. That's more than I can say of most people out here....

I can understand why you say this. A lot of people put on one face for one person and another for others. I think everybody is like this to one extent or another. I've read lots of books expressly because I disagree with their position... I see it as necessary when one believes something firmly. You've been mobbed here somewhat (regardless of the reasons), you've stuck it out, and I have no wish to join a mob, so I will watch these videos when I make the time to do so. I prefer books for educational purposes, but I'll watch these... just not quite yet... I wish to be in the mood first :) There's no hurry.

I've not done much in the way of research into the Holocaust. I research according to what takes my fancy enough to put the work into. When I do this, I usually try and get the best materials I can from all sides. I'm not saying I'll do this in this case. However, if the videos cause me to be interested enough, then I will look into it further until I have satisfied myself :)

Offline IlluSionS667

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2008, 07:07:55 AM »
You've been mobbed here somewhat (regardless of the reasons), you've stuck it out, and I have no wish to join a mob, so I will watch these videos when I make the time to do so. I prefer books for educational purposes, but I'll watch these... just not quite yet... I wish to be in the mood first :) There's no hurry.

If you wish, I can provide you with a bunch of book titles (some of which are available as free E-books). I also prefer books for educational purposes as they usually go much deeper into the topic and they tend to provide far more source references. Nevertheless, I learned that few people are interested to actually read a book unless they have the impression it will confirm their prejudices. More are willing to watch a video, considering it tends to take a lot less time. Also, it tends to be easier to explan something with images and words than with words alone.

Do note, however, that the editing of the videos in question is quite poor and unprofessional. Do not let yourself be discouraged by that and try to focus on the actual content.

I've not done much in the way of research into the Holocaust. I research according to what takes my fancy enough to put the work into. When I do this, I usually try and get the best materials I can from all sides. I'm not saying I'll do this in this case. However, if the videos cause me to be interested enough, then I will look into it further until I have satisfied myself :)

This is exactly the same attitude I try to have :)

Offline Nocturnalist!

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2008, 07:25:21 AM »
Do note, however, that the editing of the videos in question is quite poor and unprofessional. Do not let yourself be discouraged by that and try to focus on the actual content.

Don't worry about the editing. I don't require a glossy presentation.

About the books... I may get back to you on that if the videos capture my interest. I don't wish to be buried in information before I've found out whether I am interested enough or not to look into it further :) Thanks for the offer though.

Offline IlluSionS667

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2008, 04:54:38 AM »
It's more than a week since I posted the vids and no one thusfar managed to provide a single argument against the views expressed in them. Quite remarkable ;)

Offline odeon

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2008, 04:21:08 PM »
Let's face it, the moon is made of cheese and Illusionist needs more bitch-slapping.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline ApotheosisIV

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2008, 04:26:53 PM »
I read an article in a Sunday magazine a few weeks ago.
It was about holiday trips and a tour around one of the death camps and gas chambers ( I can't remember which one).
I don't feel the need to visit anywhere in particular ( maybe Olso and the Munch museum) but it did peak my interest.

batcat

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Re: The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2008, 08:02:27 PM »
I read an article in a Sunday magazine a few weeks ago.
It was about holiday trips and a tour around one of the death camps and gas chambers ( I can't remember which one).
I don't feel the need to visit anywhere in particular ( maybe Olso and the Munch museum) but it did peak my interest.



I have read and seen books, tv shows about the death camps and spoken to a few US soldiers who survived being POW's and Death March survivors.  (from my Home health nursing career)