Confederate Flag appreciation thread.

[RageBeoulve]

They certainly do have the right to try and erase something from public spaces, although that idea is a bit moronic when the thing that they are trying to erase obviously doesn't mean what they think it does. It becomes more irritating when they assemble a zombie horde of emotionally underdeveloped knuckleheads bent on destroying something based on a feeling rather than a fact.

It is most definitely the right of the public to deal in emotion rather than facts regarding the direction national or global culture takes, but is it wise? Will it yield any profit, or will it cause damage?

Evidentally what it means depends on the person, so yeah let the people speak. I personally don't see it's appropriate or even relevant to any public space other than a civil war memorial. 

What it means is concrete, and set in historical fact. It does not depend on a person's belief. A person can believe in whatever truth or lies they choose, but those two things will always be the same regardless of their desire.

Okay fine, we'll contain it to the context of the civil war. I'll just re-direct you back to the backwards quote from the flag designer. The historical fact is a meaning based in white supremacy, slavery, and civil war. Sure, it's a historical emblem and should be treated as such. I don't think atop state capitol buildings is how that's done.

You are referring to the rebel flag.

[Gopher Gary]

Holy shit. Were we talking about something else? 

[RageBeoulve]

Holy shit. Were we talking about something else? 

Apparently so.

[Gopher Gary]

Oh, okay. I get it. Confederate flag, Dixie flag, rebel flag, stars and bars, the navy jack. They're all connected. You want to only talk about the rebel flag? Are we now going to confine this conversation to the context of the battle flag of Virginia? Or did you think that's what I'm doing? 

[RageBeoulve]

Ahh, actually I am mistaken. The white lightning and black panthers actually used the rebel flag, not the confederate flag. The official confederate flag was called the stars and bars, and looked different than the one you are referring to as the confederate flag.

The KKK also attempted to appropriate the rebel flag as their symbol, but were never as successful. This being the case, their attempts caused the black panther party to distance themselves from it, much to the detriment of the synthesis of civil right's protestors in the past.

[RageBeoulve]

Regardless of popular opinion, these are not the same flags and have different histories. Things are what they are, regardless of the masses emotionally lashing out at symbols in order to sate their need to exert control over an environment they are relinquishing that same control over out of laziness, insecurity, and fear.

[Bastet]

Regardless of popular opinion, these are not the same flags and have different histories. Things are what they are, regardless of the masses emotionally lashing out at symbols in order to sate their need to exert control over an environment they are relinquishing that same control over out of laziness, insecurity, and fear.

[RageBeoulve]

Maybe someday, human beings will have the courage and maturity to accept and process things for what they are. Indeed, maybe they will WANT to do this, as they may be developed enough as individuals and as a culture to understand the need for a knowledge base untainted by agenda or envy. 

Maybe someday, people will have the strength to pursue ideas to their conclusion regardless of intent. This reminds me of a quote from the Mahabharata.

Krishna: "Resist what resists in you and become yourself." 

[Gopher Gary]

There were three official confederate flags, and that's right the first one didn't have the stars and bars. The rebel flag was used but never an official version. Though it's now the most widely recognized of the confederate war flags. You're right, the rebel flag does have the same original history, but not the same full history.

[Bastet]

Im sick and tired of comments disappearing of good articles or bad articles vanishing on purpose. Or people's words being edited and twisted to make them sound evil and ruin them when they've done nothing wrong other that have an opposing opinion.

[Gopher Gary]

Im sick and tired of comments disappearing of good articles or bad articles vanishing on purpose. Or people's words being edited and twisted to make them sound evil and ruin them when they've done nothing wrong other that have an opposing opinion.

Are you talking about things said here? I've found this discussion to be quite civil. 

[Bastet]

Im sick and tired of comments disappearing of good articles or bad articles vanishing on purpose. Or people's words being edited and twisted to make them sound evil and ruin them when they've done nothing wrong other that have an opposing opinion.

Are you talking about things said here? I've found this discussion to be quite civil. 

No I mean in the media.

[Al Swearegen]

I'm not even gonna backtrace this, but my initial point is that - emotions are important. Hear me out!

Riots come from bad emotions. In politics, "bad emotions" are called dissent
Dissent costs society, in the long run, more and more.

That is what a lot of this stuff is about, it's not about "feeling sorry for the feels and emotions and the tears and the cries", it's about containing dissent - which is a balancing act between allowing too much, and allowing too little.

Am I for it? Or against it?
For or against what, dissent? Flags? Idunno

Fine, my 5 cents on the flag... I am always in favor of the resurrection of original imagery, if that imagery is indeed innocent. I am amused by the thought of western punk bands trying to showcase the swastika, in order to give it new meaning, although I doubt the effectiveness.
I am completely fine w the swastika being used in various Asian decorations, including a well known Manga series, because intention is what's important.
Now, what's also important is that this manga does not cause costly dissent.
As for the confederate flag, well, there's allready been riots. A lot of people say and express "it's enough with that flag", while others disagree. Dissent has set root.

Now, in my opinion, the wisest thing would be to let go of the flag. But that does not mean that I am unaware of its history, or its meaning outside of racism.
I'm completely aware that the use of that flag, or derivates of - in actual American state flags, have not - this entire time - been motivated by racism. That would be ridiculous. They're motivated by a sense of pride in their history, regardless of the dark side of it.

But we keep coming back to the reality that a lot of people disagree.
That disagreement is a reality, which means the dissent is, and it has to be dealt with, because it can't be mocked, laughed or pointed-at away

Weak.

[Bastet]

Personal freedom is a dying trend nowadays.

[benjimanbreeg]

Then again, the gopher could be right and it's just trendy, just like in the late eighties and early nineties there was a sudden popularity of black urban setting type movies. Hollywood tends to do whatever is profitable.

That was more of an attempt to sound sensible, but much rather prefer to view the recent influx of black victimization in the media to be conspiratorial. Now thinking about the urban movie and tv trend of the past, and remembering reading/hearing of the black community taking offence to commonly being portrayed in the media as gang banging thugs, and claiming it a media conspiracy. Now wondering if they might benefit from being equally offended by being commonly portrayed as victims.

They still get portrayed as thug/gangsters too, but they are always in that position for a reason, where as evil white characters in films are usually just naturally pure evil. 

They seem to also to portray that black gangster type as being cool, hence why so many youngsters copy it, especially white boys.