Suicide

[odeon]

There are no winners.

Except the person who died.  They were relieved of their intolerable pain.

It can be seen as selfish for someone to end their own life, but it is also selfish to force someone to live who doesn't want to.

The person who committed suicide is just dead, whatever the reason. A dead person is never a winner.

And again, every reason to commit suicide is ultimately selfish. It's not something you do for someone else, you do it for you. Nothing glamorous, nothing noble about it either, just desperation and no other visible options.

[Pig]

There are no winners.

Except the person who died.  They were relieved of their intolerable pain.

It can be seen as selfish for someone to end their own life, but it is also selfish to force someone to live who doesn't want to.

The person who committed suicide is just dead, whatever the reason. A dead person is never a winner.

And again, every reason to commit suicide is ultimately selfish. It's not something you do for someone else, you do it for you. Nothing glamorous, nothing noble about it either, just desperation and no other visible options.

Why don't you think dead people are winners?  If their goal was to die, and they succeeded, then they got what they wanted!

As to the selfishness - shouldn't a person be able to choose how to live (or end) their life?  Why can't they throw it away if they wish?  That should be a basic right.

[odeon]

You're reading too much into "selfish". It's simply something you do for yourself. Whether or not it's something negative is a different matter.

As for dead people being winners, it's just not possible. They are dead, they are gone, they are no more. Easy.

[Adam]

Everything we do is selfish, technically


But when people say it's selfish as in the person that did it is a terrible heartless peson, I think they're missing the point, which is that it is the ONLY way out that person can see (most of the time), and often is appears to be in the best interests of everyone (to them), inluding the people they love

It's not, obviously. And almost always leaves people absoliutely devastated, as odeon said. But I don't like the way so many people speak of someone who's killed themselves as if they just decided , screw everyone. It's not as simple as that

btw this isn't a respnse to you, odeon. just generally on the subject of suicide=selfish

[odeon]

That's mostly grief talking when others say it, Adam.

[Queen Victoria]

Like so many others on this site and in real life, I've considered suicide when I was younger.  There was one time when I was so devastated that I couldn't muster the energy to commit suicide.  Anyway,

the thought that the next day or week or year might bring a change in my situation,
the finality of suicide, and
the effect on my parents

kept me going.  Now I can say that I made the better choice, life.

[bodie]

To me it is something other people do.  From the moment i understood what the word meant, i decided it wasn't ever going to happen to me.

It doesn't appear ever in my options because i have never ever put it there.  My last resort usually is to get the fuck up and keep going.

I personally don't understand it.  I wanna keep it that way too.   The moment i understand such madness would probably mean i was considering it.  I do think it's  a person's 'right' though,  and shouldn't be an unlawful matter.

I can't really ever see myself thinking 'yeah good one'  or giving a thumbs up about it.  Perhaps if someone was terminally ill,  or in a horrific amount of pain.

I think these things are rarely 'out of the blue',  as Adam said.  They usually follow some sort of mental deterioration.  Possibly depression.  It is just sad, in those cases.  Not something to celebrate.  It's a fail.  They failed to get help and they quit.

I love the klingon's

The Heghba' as I understand it:

When a Klingon can no longer stand and face his enemies, when he becomes a burden to his family and friends, it is time for him to die.

Surrounded by friends, family, and comrades, the ailing Klingon takes the ceremonial Heghba' dagger and plunges it deep into his own heart. A family member, preferably the eldest son who will assume leadership of the house, twists the blade counter-clockwise and pulls it from the body, wiping the blood on his sleeve. The Klingon death ritual follows.

This ritual "suicide" is the only acceptable way of taking one's own life. Only an ailing Klingon may perform the ceremony. This generally includes Klingons mortally wounded in battle but not killed. With the exception of suicide missions for the glory of the Empire, any other suicide is considered a dishonorable death and the Klingon can not cross the river of blood and enter Sto'vo'qor.

I know people sometimes think it is selfish,  or cowardly.  I don't.  It's just a big fail.    For me, better to go down fighting than to take an early exit.

[Icequeen]

Personally no matter how shitty life can be somedays, I still love living. 

Now, if I became terminally ill and I knew the quality of life I would be living would be almost non-existant and the results would impact my family horribly....financially & emotionally. Then it would be an option I would consider if I was still able to do so. But at that point I don't consider it "suicide", I consider having an "exit plan".

[Pig]

Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.

If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement.  By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.

[bodie]

I can't imagine what kind of life that would be,  to be in that state continually.  Not saying it doesn't happen.  Just that i can't get my head around it.

Long ago,  man was 'happy' if he had shelter,  a fire, and a simple meal - oh look how we have evolved!

If i am unhappy i seek things to improve my life, not end it.   

[odeon]

Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.

If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement.  By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.

No, they *end* their emotional state.

[Pig]

Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.

If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement.  By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.

No, they *end* their emotional state.

Let's say emotions are like positive and negative values.  Misery is negative, happiness is positive, and no-emotion is zero.  Going from a negative value to zero is a positive.

I guess.    That's how I've always thought of it, anyway.

[bodie]

...i was gonna say that odeon, lol.

Also,  pig,  there are no guarantee's that death will mean peace or happiness.   You might just be spending an eternity sucking the cocks of leper's in hell.   (oh ok might be a bonus for some)

[odeon]

Some people suffer from mental problems, especially depression, to an extent comparable with excruciating physical illness.

If they always feel unhappy then feeling nothing would be an improvement.  By killing themselves they improve their emotional state.

No, they *end* their emotional state.

Let's say emotions are like positive and negative values.  Misery is negative, happiness is positive, and no-emotion is zero.  Going from a negative value to zero is a positive.

I guess.    That's how I've always thought of it, anyway.

I don't buy that. Between good and bad emotions should be those that are neither good or bad, but that still are emotions.

[Pig]

...i was gonna say that odeon, lol.

Also,  pig,  there are no guarantee's that death will mean peace or happiness.   You might just be spending an eternity sucking the cocks of leper's in hell.   (oh ok might be a bonus for some)

It's true we don't know what happens when we die, but I am 99.9% convinced we simply cease to exist as conscious minds.  When we are dead we become decaying meat with no thoughts or feelings.

Think of it this way, we spent all of time not existing before we were born - why should it bother us thinking we will return to that state?*

*paraphrased from a quote I read somewhere