Author Topic: Post what you are thinking right now, part two  (Read 269434 times)

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Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11445 on: December 05, 2018, 07:31:45 PM »
Thanks for the heads up Dirtdawg.  I was planning on unloading some silver plate before Christmas.  Guess I'll have to find another source of money.
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11446 on: December 05, 2018, 08:10:19 PM »
If you were to buy yourself a little piece of platinum wire, not too expensive, as it's only needed in a single piece of some of a gauge stiff enough to take up a bit of a solid in distilled water, to apply to a torch flame, borax will give a green colouration to the flame, lighter green than copper and not the apple green of barium ions.

The platinum is used because it's very unreactive and also heat-resistant, won't contaminate the flame colour.

Take a bit up on the tip of the wire, insert into flame. The sodium in borax will add the bright orange sodium D-line characteristic of the emission spectrum of Na, colour of sodium lamp street lighting. But there'll be a green introduction, leaf green I'd call it, a bright leaf green, then that shows that boron is present.

And you can buy small but damn powerful samarium-cobalt magnets online for not too much.

An alternative would be the core, if sliced in half through and through, ought to fail to react to hydrogen sulfide gas after moistening with distilled or de-ionized water (available dirt cheap in auto stores for topping up lead-acid batteries). If you need to know how to make the gas, just let me know, but be aware it's something only to perform OUTSIDE. And only if comfortable in handling it, because H2S is both highly toxic (disrupts the electron transport chain like cyanide gas does, and is similarly fast acting and deadly in sufficient concentration)  and a sneaky, insidious little bastard. Smells foul, gives rotten eggs the characteristic eggy stink, but also, and this is what gets people where the concentration isn't 'one breath and you are dead', the stink is obvious, people then note it has vanished, leaving them to believe that the hydrogen sulfide is no longer present, since the  smell is gone.

It hasn't gone anywhere. It paralyzes the olfactory nerve (temporarily, assuming of course that the individual hasn't been fatally poisoned, as dead people aren't known for their smelling. Not with their noses, at any rate. They are quite good at it with the rest of their putrid bloated rotting guts being  readied to blow out of their ruptured stomachs as corpse-gas builds up and  bursts them open in hot weather :autism:. The loss of sense of smell with dead people though, it tends to be rather long term.....)

So the H2S, still present, has just put on it's ninja hat and pulled a vanishing act, but it's there, alright, it's just stalking it's prey, the  sneaky little bastard.

H2S causes silver to blacken due to a surface layer of silver sulfide forming, this has  a dark colour, a fair proportion of the tarnish silver takes on in jewellery is due to sulfidation thanks to sulfur-containing amino acids in proteins from skin secretions, like  cystine, cysteine, methionine for example.

Never tried using say, a solution of methionine or cyst(e)ine in distilled water as the sodium salt of the amino-acid to solubilize it, although it might work to tarnish silver without needing hydrogen  sulfide itself.

The samarium-cobalt rare earth magnets are cheap, and for their size the magnetic field is remarkably powerful, even in a rod about as wide as  a BB pellet and 2cm long. Platinum wire option too won't cost that much, and it will be reusable, just the one  little piece of stiff wire an inch long or so is  fine.

I've used the H2S test quite a number of times, after dumpster diving, especially after that time I found a big haul of silver, much antique and  readily identifiable visually without testing, but some bright shiny metal that I suspected. So had to whip out the labware and start testing.

Also, one other way to do it, to test silver itself, is that it will dissolve in dilute nitric acid, and if  you want any, I could spare some  easiiy, and  make up a batch for you. Silver, once dissolved to produce aqueous  silver nitrate, is characteristic in that upon the addition of chloride salts, such as table salt, the corresponding metal nitrate is formed, the  silver stealing the halogen atom, to form silver chloride, a white solid substance which is pretty much totally insoluble in H2O, and  so, precipitates out when table salt is added  to silver nitrate, leaving aqueous sodium nitrate dissolved, whilst the solid precipitate crashing out is diagnostic of silver.

Silver chloride, in common with other halides that behave the same in this  reaction, is photosensitive, darkening  with exposure to sunlight, due to it's reacting to form elemetal silver in finely divided state, which looks black. This was used, with silver iodide impregnated stock, in some early black and white/greyscale photographic processes, the camera working by selective exposure of some parts but not others to varying levels of light, darkening the hit portions, as silver  forms, and then the rest processed to remove the silver  salts which aren't developed in the darkroom.

Silver iodide can be formed instead, by using NaI or KI (cheap, if you wanted a bit of HNO3 for testing, I could spare a bit of  an alkali metal iodide to use for the same process. The insoluble  precipitate being diagnostic,  and if iron chloride (ferric chloride) forms, it's soluble in water and  it has a dark green colour in solution.)
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Offline Lestat

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11447 on: December 05, 2018, 08:13:50 PM »
And  actually, I could spare a samarium cobalt magnet, I've got plenty more than I need, stuck to the  radiator in my lab.

Silver price down? whats the spot price currently? because I might  consider investing in a bit, making it into AgNO3 and selling on for  a profit.

Jesse, you keep track of precious metal prices? if so, how is the spot for ruthenium roundabout now? I've been wanting  some for preparing of a rather special, chiral and enantioselective catalyst based on this particular platinum group metal.
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Offline renaeden

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11448 on: December 05, 2018, 09:07:01 PM »
Bleed From Within - I like their music but what talent is there in their vocals? Hmm.
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Offline DirtDawg

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11449 on: December 05, 2018, 09:34:58 PM »

Stamina, misery, endurance, guile, torment, tenacity, mettle, suffering, distress ...

I do not know, but choose one for each line.
Jimi Hendrix: When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. 

Ghandi: Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

The end result of life's daily pain and suffering, trials and failures, tears and laughter, readings and listenings is an accumulation of wisdom in its purest form.

Offline DirtDawg

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11450 on: December 05, 2018, 09:56:54 PM »

Silver price down? whats the spot price currently? because I might  consider investing in a bit, making it into AgNO3 and selling on for  a profit.

This year. As you can see it is down, but late January it usually rebounds.
So, today is a great time to invest.
I feel that those most able to market silver nitrate already have a way to create it in the quantities they can use. Sorry.

Go to this JM Bullion site and you can find the entire historical values of several precious metals.
No ruthenium, though.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 10:08:26 PM by DirtDawg »
Jimi Hendrix: When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. 

Ghandi: Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

The end result of life's daily pain and suffering, trials and failures, tears and laughter, readings and listenings is an accumulation of wisdom in its purest form.

Offline odeon

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11451 on: December 05, 2018, 10:46:11 PM »

Good idea!
Easier to carry around than a forty pound speaker too.
 :thumbup:

The speaker is way cooler, tho.
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Offline rock hound

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11452 on: December 06, 2018, 12:37:37 PM »
Am thinking that it's a really great feeling when you pull into a parking spot at the store and one of your favorite songs comes on.   SiriusXM 60's on 6, The Animals....""Don't bring me down".  And you sit there and listen to the whole tune before you do your shopping!  <bliss>

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Offline odeon

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11453 on: December 06, 2018, 12:40:20 PM »
I'm bored.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Lestat

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11454 on: December 06, 2018, 03:45:04 PM »
I do have a way to make silver nitrate, dissolve silver in nitric acid. Strip off any remaining HNO3 for recovery via distillation, dry out, job done.

And the HNO3? can make it up to 98% concentration, by distilling  a mixture of sodium or potassium nitrate with 98% sulfuric acid. Although it is pretty  vicious stuff at that concentration, the HNO3. H2SO4 of 98% is easy enough to handle, just need to remember if diluting in water, that the acid, goes into the water, not the other way round, or it'll heat to boiling point instantly and spit acid everywhere. And that it absorbs water from the air if exposed for a long time, which means don't really fill a container exposed to air like a beaker to the brim, leave some space for the water it'll inevitably absorb.

And got everything, apart from the silver itself, well, at least not in a form I'd drop in HNO3, which would be a crime almost, to do to lovely antiques.

Quite surprised that the market you posted doesn't track ruthenium. And for my use, it can't just be substituted with platinum, palladium, iridium etc. It has to BE ruthenium, as what I want it for, is preparation of a specific organoruthenium catalyst; which I read about a few days ago, which is capable of certain catalytic hydrogenation type reductions as are many platinum group metal catalysts, but in this case, the catalyst itself is chiral, and depending which isomeric form it is prepared in, it'll give the corresponding isomer of the reduced substrate one subjects to hydrogenation.

Such as enantiopure reduction of imines to amines, using the dextrorotatory catalyst gives the D-amine, and the laevorotatory form of the catalyst, the L-amine. When  many reduction techniques give instead, a racemic mixture, I.e 50:50, and  one either must accept it, or if one over the other is needed, accept 50% waste and resolve the isomers with enantiopure tartaric acid to selectively salt it. Which means a lot more effort, half the material wasted, unless it can be recycled and taken back to a precursor, and subjected to a second run of the reaction to make the product, again getting  the racemic mixture, resolving again, and again, and again, for as many times as is made practical by the initial quantity of product.

Lots of time, lots of buggering about. Compared with preparing the enantiopure target in the first place. Quite obviously an infinitely superior way to go about it. Run the reaction once, perform the reduction once, clean it up to acceptable purity once, not fart about for days getting 50% crap, 50% desired chiral product, cleaning up, running  another  reaction if possible on the waste, in however many steps, however many cleanups for each cycle of recovery. Turning one day and night's work into several weeks potentially.

Bugger that for a lark. So, it seems like I need to be getting myself some ruthenium, the catalyst is reusable too; which is just as well considering it's made from one of the platinum group metals. None of them are cheap, although AFAIK ruthenium is significantly cheaper than platinum or palladium.  But still, the end finished catalyst, if I had to buy it, I'd be paying hundreds of dollars for  1-5g, guaranteed. And I don't need an expense of half a grand or something stupid money like that near xmas. Fuck no, do I hell.

So that means DIY. Someone has  to make the commercial catalysts, so they are makeable, just means I need  to get creative. If the hands of  their chemists performing the same steps to get from ruthenium to a simple salt to work with to eventual complex organoruthenium catalyst, then mine will do the same thing if the same steps are followed, same conditions and purities. One hopes, at any rate. But at least it isn't going to ask me for my CV before deciding whether to work or not :D
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Offline rock hound

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11455 on: December 06, 2018, 05:07:41 PM »
"If you don't want the truth, don't ask me!  If you want it sugar coated...go eat a donut!"   :laugh:
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 07:21:02 PM by rock hound »
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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11456 on: December 06, 2018, 07:04:55 PM »
LOL.

The second bit ought to be rendered into latin and incorporated in a scrollwork banner, set under the puzzle piece, and used as an official autistic spectrum coat of arms.
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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11457 on: December 07, 2018, 01:45:10 AM »
I know HNO3 is nitric acid. Only because I have read a fair few of Anne McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern series.
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Offline Charlotte Quin

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11458 on: December 08, 2018, 08:17:32 AM »
One of the partners at the xmas party last night called crush boi and I BF & GF. Oh well if people think there's something going on between us (there's not).
Until a reliable witness ever sees us holding hands or kissing (which nobody ever will) they haven't got a leg to stand on.

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Re: Post what you are thinking right now, part two
« Reply #11459 on: December 08, 2018, 12:24:27 PM »
I know HNO3 is nitric acid. Only because I have read a fair few of Anne McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern series.

I can remember using it to reverse silver plate on things where there is a flaw or just to recover silver from plated garbage before recycling the steel or brass after you reclaim the silver to your anode.
Jimi Hendrix: When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. 

Ghandi: Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

The end result of life's daily pain and suffering, trials and failures, tears and laughter, readings and listenings is an accumulation of wisdom in its purest form.