Why do you americans have such faggoty gun laws?

['Butterflies']

I do like playing with guns, but surely the easier it is to get hold of guns, and the more guns there are in circulation, the more chance there is of gun related incedents. It's OK saying that it's a good idea to have them for self-defence if someone breaks into your house, but that just means that the burglar is more likely to carry a gun. Therefore the people who choose not to keep a gun are in more danger.

Also, what happens when someone who has a gun for self-defence has a breakdown? It is so much easier for him to go on a rampage and kill lots of people.

^^ Everything you just said is basically true, but it's impossible to fight it. Having morals is fine, but the world is going to be harsh .

especially this part

"Therefore the people who choose not to keep a gun are in more danger"

It's not a moral issue for me. I think society is safer without guns being readily available. I'm no expert on gun culture, but over here few housebreakers carry guns. They know the homeowner is unlikely to be armed, and it's not worth the extra time in jail that carrying a gun brings.
Yes, criminals over here can get hold of guns, but they tend to use them against other people who are likely to have guns.
We do have a problem with knives. A lot of people carry knives. A lot of them say they carry them for protection.

In a way this whole arrgument reminds me of an arms race, with guns=nuclear weapons. Some people think the world is a safer place with the deterrent that nuclear weapons bring. Others think the world would e a better place if all nuclear weapons were scrapped.

[Adam]

butterflies is right

And I'm not just saying that so she'll have sex with me

[eris]

If no one had guns, that would make sense. It guns were totally outlawed no one would have to worry about them.

It is like you guys are arguing that we should have a safe society, and Im saying that society isnt safe so be prepared.

And I dont get the nuclear arms comparison. Cause no guns in the whole world anywhere would solve the problem as would no nukes. But there are some hiding, everywhere. 

 

[Semicolon]

Abstract, "Crime, Deterrence, and Right-To-Carry Concealed Handguns". JSTOR, Volume 26, Number 1.

Using cross‐sectional time‐series data for U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992, we find that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes, without increasing accidental deaths. If those states without right‐to‐carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, county‐ and state‐level data indicate that approximately 1,500 murders would have been avoided yearly. Similarly, we predict that rapes would have declined by over 4,000, robbery by over 11,000, and aggravated assaults by over 60,000. We also find criminals substituting into property crimes involving stealth, where the probability of contact between the criminal and the victim is minimal. Further, higher arrest and conviction rates consistently reduce crime. The estimated annual gain from all remaining states adopting these laws was at least $5.74 billion in 1992. The annual social benefit from an additional concealed handgun permit is as high as $5,000.

Source

[Osensitive1]

Also, what happens when someone who has a gun for self-defence has a breakdown? It is so much easier for him to go on a rampage and kill lots of people.

Exactly. How many people flip out and punch someone or attack someone in another way? Usually it doesn't result in death. If that person had a gun, it's more likely that it would/. There was a guy here who had a gun (hunting) and he had a breakdown and shot a load of people. That's an isolated incident in this country, but if we all had guns then I reckon it would be much more common.

Look at the school shootings. We don't get those here

There's no way to effectively control it in the US. There's too many and no one knows who has what. . It doesn't make sense to compare the US to a country that's the size of one of our states. There's about six times as many guns in the US as people in the UK. Not questioning your morality, it's honorable and likey works well there.

['Butterflies']

If no one had guns, that would make sense. It guns were totally outlawed no one would have to worry about them.

It is like you guys are arguing that we should have a safe society, and Im saying that society isnt safe so be prepared.

And I dont get the nuclear arms comparison. Cause no guns in the whole world anywhere would solve the problem as would no nukes. But there are some hiding, everywhere. 

 

Guns will always exist. If they are illegal for most people to own though surely only a minority of people will have them. In Britain if a person wants to go out in a blaze of glory they would have a hard job getting a gun. In America if someone wants to go out in a blaze of glory they only have to raid their dads gun cabinet.

The analogy with the arms race is that more people carry guns because they know that other people have guns. If I was a housebreaker in America I doubt if I would go breaking into houses without a gun. Not because I wanted to kill the person I was robbing, but to protect myself against the person I was robbing.

[Adam]

Butterflies is right AGAIN

surely this means sex with her AND her hot friend ? 

['Butterflies']

Butterflies is right AGAIN

surely this means sex with her AND her hot friend ? 

You're more than welcome to have sex with my friend. In fact, I would love to see that

[Semicolon]

If no one had guns, that would make sense. It guns were totally outlawed no one would have to worry about them.

It is like you guys are arguing that we should have a safe society, and Im saying that society isnt safe so be prepared.

And I dont get the nuclear arms comparison. Cause no guns in the whole world anywhere would solve the problem as would no nukes. But there are some hiding, everywhere.  

 

Guns will always exist. If they are illegal for most people to own though surely only a minority of people will have them. In Britain if a person wants to go out in a blaze of glory they would have a hard job getting a gun. In America if someone wants to go out in a blaze of glory they only have to raid their dads gun cabinet.

The analogy with the arms race is that more people carry guns because they know that other people have guns. If I was a housebreaker in America I doubt if I would go breaking into houses without a gun. Not because I wanted to kill the person I was robbing, but to protect myself against the person I was robbing.

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that your analogy is correct. Have you considered the logical conclusion of your analogy? Let's say that guns are like nuclear weapons in regards to the arms race between hostile parties. Look at the history of nuclear weapons. When the US was the only country in the world to have nuclear bombs, we used them. During the Cold War, when any nuclear move by either the USSR or the US would have resulted in the destruction of both parties, no nuclear missiles were launched. If all parties to a dispute are equally well armed and all would risk a significant chance of death by beginning hostilities, there is a strong incentive to keep the peace. If anything, your analogy would lead to an idealized state where all people are equally well armed with very lethal guns. No one would dare use one to commit a crime, because of the high risk of death.

[eris]

If no one had guns, that would make sense. It guns were totally outlawed no one would have to worry about them.

It is like you guys are arguing that we should have a safe society, and Im saying that society isnt safe so be prepared.

And I dont get the nuclear arms comparison. Cause no guns in the whole world anywhere would solve the problem as would no nukes. But there are some hiding, everywhere. 

 

Guns will always exist. If they are illegal for most people to own though surely only a minority of people will have them. In Britain if a person wants to go out in a blaze of glory they would have a hard job getting a gun. In America if someone wants to go out in a blaze of glory they only have to raid their dads gun cabinet.

The analogy with the arms race is that more people carry guns because they know that other people have guns. If I was a housebreaker in America I doubt if I would go breaking into houses without a gun. Not because I wanted to kill the person I was robbing, but to protect myself against the person I was robbing.

Then what happens if war breaks out ? What happens if society collapses ?

Im not talking about Ideals, it is just reality. I live in a city with millions of people and many of them have guns. I dont want to be roadkill.



I would love to continue this discussion, dear, but I have to go meet a man about some rope. Ill reply later. 

[Adam]

But the US didn't nuke Sweden. It nuked badass Japan

[Semicolon]

But the US didn't nuke Sweden. It nuked badass Japan

[Adam]

As in criminals killing EACH OTHER. not random innocent people

[Osensitive1]

A big part of the issue is also Americans don't care for the government telling them what to do. Even some non gun owners here can get that, although yet another thing people from other countries don't understand.

[Adam]

A big part of the issue is also Americans don't care for the government telling them what to do. Even some non gun owners here can get that, although yet another thing people from other countries don't understand.

Why do you think people from other countries don;t understand not wanting the govt telling them what to do? Plenty of Americans want the govt telling them what to do on issues such as abortion and gay marriage.