OK Kit come on down and be prepared to back your words and every insinuation

[Al Swearegen]

i sent alex my last donation on the 7th of september. (monday was a holiday here, labour day. no mail) right around the same time i got my new computer. before i found out what a scammer he was, and everything else. so you can really go back and see if thats true or not.

 and my point is you are a trouble maker reguardless

I kinda like Sir Les as an asshole, he makes a lot of sense. Also lives up to the reputation of his avatar

I should also add he scared an NT off another forum and off WP too. Go figure.

I scared off a NT? Really? Little old me? Which NT and was that a good or a bad thing Kit?

Remember Granatelli?

When was I bitching about him? I don't ever recall.

Granatelli left because sir les brought the issue back and then others stepped in saying how they were bothered by his comments, I stepped in too and then he decided to leave. I felt sorry for him and didn't know what to say when he said nobody likes him and he is unwanted there. All I could say is sorry he feels that way. He lurked for two months and then I haven't seen him since. If anyone leaves over an incident, I see it as scaring them off. I can say others scared Sir Les off because they didn't like his behavior. I say some of us scared BruceCM off because we caught him with his sockpuppet.

If anyone wants to see the links, I'll be glad to post them here where the drama occurred. Then others can judge for themselves.

I think I may have started something. Oh shit. Why must I be good at these things when it's not my intention?

But thank goodness this is I2.

OK Kit you are right.
It is I2 and that maxim "BE PREPARED TO BACK UP YOUR WORDS" is very true. You demand this off me and all good. No issue. But I will certainly do no less of you. In fact moreso.
Your intention is VERY clear Kit don't play it down. You love drama and want to back a shitty point of Richard's and I am going to go gunning for you on this one. See I call it like it is and don't try to dress it down.
No-one scared me off. I thought the stand they were taking was not much to my liking and I had other forums which were giving me far more joy.

You can try to gloss over what happen in trying to spin things one way or another but I will call it true to rights and I have no issue and then I will get you in light of the facts to explain what you have said.

So yes, I remember Grantanelli. I remember exactly what happened there and yes I am prepared to take a lead pipe to your premise. Then I will get to your intention after. You did chose this Kit.

[RageBeoulve]

 

[Al Swearegen]

When was I bitching about him? I don't ever recall.

Really Kit? I think you are lying.
Let me help refresh that selective memory of yours then

Les left? :Sad face:


I have called Grantelli out on his bigotry stuff too by pointing out to him not all aspies are this way or that way and he knows that. If he isn't going to post here again, his problem. Just click on their profile and click "add foe" and you will never see their posts and problem solved.

No, just change the way you talk and learn to keep your mouth shut about things or learn to word things different so you don't come off as bigoted or whatever. Just stop being black and white about aspies or is that too hard? You act like we're all the same.

A good argument here. Will granatelli back out again like he always does?

I find it annoying when people back out of arguments. I like some good drama.

So how about you firstly own your position in this and secondly don't try to insinuate it was me against Granatelli

But let's continue because I have just scratched the surface.

You want drama and you want me to account for myself you better be prepare to do the same, because you are peddling bullshit and you know it.

[Al Swearegen]

Granatelli left because sir les brought the issue back and then others stepped in saying how they were bothered by his comments, I stepped in too and then he decided to leave. I felt sorry for him and didn't know what to say when he said nobody likes him and he is unwanted there. All I could say is sorry he feels that way.

Sure Kit we see the level of "how sorry you are already".
Let's drop the righteous pretense.

The comments that were made about this guys behaviour from me AND OTHERS was more than fair and needed addressing

If anyone wants to see the links, I'll be glad to post them here where the drama occurred. Then others can judge for themselves.

We WILL get to that Kit don't worry. I have done my research too. People need the background to your attempt at smear first though..don't you think?

[Al Swearegen]

I think I may have started something. Oh shit. Why must I be good at these things when it's not my intention?

But thank goodness this is I2.

You aren't good at these things Kit. You will find this out in this thread.

Yes thank goodness this is I2.

I2 where:
We won't cater for your shitstirring without calling you on it
Where you need to make account of yourself
Where no-one will call me out for being unduly mean to you
Where you will been exposed to the full for your every word.
Where Admin don't stop and intercede.
Where even the spectators that don't approved will respect the place enough not to intervene.

You are on your own here. Back yourself Kit.

[RageBeoulve]

He's right Kit. Get in here.

[Al Swearegen]

But hey rather than go the route of talking in abstract terms let's get to the crux of why I AND OTHERS had issue with Granatelli. It was for bullshit ableist shit he continually spouted in a ASD relationship support forum.

Have a look at this to get up to speed people.

....Aspies on the board ought not see it as Ableism.

Stereotypes and generalizations exist because there is always some truth in them.

No this is not right and you are smart enough to know this is not right.

Stereotypes such as The stupidity of Irish (probably from illiterate Irish immigrants and xenophobic bigots) , The degeneracy of black people (Racists throughout history fearing the other because their skin is different), the gullibility and naivety of blondes  (Sexist probably knew three or our blondes that he thought was stupid and away he went) and so on. I am sure in all of these instances of stereotypes and generalisations you may find people who fit one of these stereotypes in some great or small way. The above as broad statements are NOT TRUE and rather insulting to be honest.

Don't try to fool us that stereotypes are OK if you can find instances to back them. They are not and furthermore taken to believing the stereotypes is actually something a little worse. There s a couple of terms reserved for people who are happy looking at the classification of person before the person themselves and to used a broad concept of a classification to associate with all people of the classification.

Don't be that guy Grantanelli.

AS is a disability. An official dx exists.

No one is doubting that. The reason for us being here (I bloody hope) is that why recognise and respect what it isn't and are trying to learn from each other, given understanding for the different neurologies, how to understand appreciate the differences between each other and understand each other from a different perspective.

Lack of empathy is right at the top of the list. Being unable to see another persons point of view or perespective. I didn't make it up, it's in the official dx. So is rigidity.

Nice Grantanelli.

So that is what Empathy is? Sort of close (and it is the small things that make a difference when you have some concepts as abstract and broad as this). Empathy is the sharing of emotion and feelings. It IN NO WAY has to do with being able to see a person's point of view or perspective.

Yes the mention of lack pf empathy is in the official dx and your definition and understanding of what that actually means is not.

I have seen this more than a couple of times though. You making a point about something calling it irrefutable fact and beyond debate. "Argue all you want you can't change the facts"?

What is your understanding of what any one person with Asperger's can with rigidity? How pervasive is it? How disabling/interfering in the functioning of their lives? To what areas of their live and thinking?

Now I want you to tell us in which way rigidity affects each of the Aspies on the forum. Stuck? Bit unfair to ask? Bit unfair to throw this into the debate without term of any reference to try to make a point? I think we can live without having to address rigidity for whatever it may mean to you.

That's why I walked away from this disagreement. Because no matter what anyone says about being open minded or being willing to change their mind if sufficient proof is provided I've got more important things to worry about right now than to have a 20 page argument w/someone who probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true. Again, that's not me, that's in the official dx.

OK Grantanelli knowing my mind like you do and knowing me as a person tell me again how you know what I may or may not believe and why.

I "probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true"? OK explain this because at least two other members on this forum have seen that I am exceptional good at apologising and seeking to right wrongs IF I believe I am wrong and further step away from a strongly contested position, and I believe some may have seen this here.

So how does this reality fit with that which you have composed with me and your presupposition about what aspects of Asperger's Syndrome affect me and to what extent? Tell me again your understanding and where you got it about my views and my ability to appreciate rationality, fairness and reason. Feelings? No contest I battle with this. An emotional argument doesn't make sense and needs explaining to see it or its worth. But that is not what you said you said "I've got more important things to worry about right now than to have a 20 page argument w/someone who probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true" That is quite an assumption and again based on a stereotype or generalisation and broadly smeared over what your understanding of how I may or may not conduct myself.

Again there is a name for this kind of generalised talk of a people, and application of a generalisation applied broadly to one to make the point for a each person of that classification explicitly.

Don't be that guy.

Again that's not you that's in the diagnosis? Immediately before this you typed "have a 20 page argument w/someone who probably won't ever be able to see my point of view anyway & is very rigid or set in what they believe to be true" I am not in the diagnosis. These assertions were made specifically about me and about how I will view something and about flaws in my ability to reason. Don't say that I am in the diagnosis. I am not.

Each person on the spectrum has cluster of traits on the Autism Spectrum. Now overlay over this is which clusters, what degree of each trait, its expression of this, the life experiences of the individual, the therapy, medication, intelligence, self-management, environment....yet you make hard and fast assumptions given a phrase in the diagnosis and what it means to you?

Why are you doing this Grantanelli?

The reason is simple. This is a support forum. It is for people of both neurotypes. The position is not that Aspies are worse or weaker or wrong. It does acknowledge difference and it does acknowledge disability in the same way that vision impairment and/or blindness is a difference and a disability but does not inherently mean a blind person is wrong.

I see the above as a very damning view on Aspies and what you see us as individually and collectively and is in no way acknowledging us positively. I see many of your posts as doing the same but subtly and to a lesser extent.

Why?

Wow. What a sweetheart of a guy.

Now here is the crux of your position. Was I unnecessarily attacking him and was i chasing him off? Well from this post...not really. Certainly I was calling him on Ableist things but let's see what others were saying.

(Yes your views of his actions are well noted in how YOU talked to him there telling the guy you felt sorry for to "shut his mouth")

[Al Swearegen]

Hmmm...if Granatelli's decided to bugger off, so be it. He seemed to have issues about AS that no other poster had and I myself butted heads with him enough times to not really miss him.

Case closed.

Chris,
I don't agree with Grafton on everything here, but I, for one, was very bothered also by some of granatelli's posts.  I just winced and went on, but the feeling was there.  And I think I'm NT :-)
And I don't feel that NT problems are not given equal weight.
For whatever it is worth.
JM

Sir_Les,

After going over some of these posts in this and the other thread, I find myself agreeing with you: digs are digs. And subtle digs are the hardest to deal with. And subtle digs that imply that because someone is ..., their opinion is naturally biased (and WRONG), negates the purpose of this board.

I actually had to go look up ableism. There is no excuse for it.

And I see why you keep pursuing it - it keeps sliding away, without being resolved.

You don't need my support. I'm just coming down on the same side of the fence because I agree with this belief.
Alicia

Sir Les - you have made your case with clarity and dignity.  I am pleased you chose to do so in a separate thread and even if granatelli chooses not to/doesn't have time/simply doesn't reply then you have made us all think about the way we act ourselves and hopefully we'll all be more aware of the things we say and the way we say them.  That can only ever be a good thing.

 I admire you for being able to stand up and be counted and I agree that it should be in public as behind the scenes can lead to too many 'he said, no HE said' kind of dialogues.  This way we can all see and comment on what is said.  Nothing you have said is unpleasant, simply true.  The truth is often uncomfortable but it doesn't make it less true.

A good argument here. Will granatelli back out again like he always does?

I find it annoying when people back out of arguments. I like some good drama.

What did the owner of the site Grafton think about all this? Kit.....

Chris, it was already contained on the other thread.

Les didn't need guidance sorting these issues. He was simply correct. Granatelli made a lot of ableist offensive statements. I was more patient about them than Les was, but being that patient with them was not required. It is hardly the first time it had been brought up. Granatelli had ignored more gentle attempts and I fully support Les in saying that enough's enough. Unfortunately, I am busy and Les did not communicate to me that he was frustrated and upset when so many other members responded by challenging his methods instead of recognizing the validity of his point and valuing that above his 'tone.' I thought he was handling that well or I would have yelled at the readership and locked the thread. Instead he found his last straw and has left.

And I am disgusted with the whole affair and wonder what the hell I am doing hosting a forum where Les' list of 'all of the above' has happened to him.

The elephant that needs to be eaten is the way this group abruptly managed to turn into something that seems to value NT communication styles so much that granatelli's semi-subtle bigotry was accepted and even defended, while devaluing AS communication styles so much that Les' honest response to being subjected to bigotry got him lambasted.

Fuck me!!!

Kit why are these people say these kind of things. He was so hard done by and it was just me right? I mean no one took the view that he was poisonous right?

[Phlexor]

Picking on a pregnant woman? A new low even for your Les.

[RageBeoulve]

Picking on a pregnant woman? A new low even for your Les.

Its not like all this drama is NEW, Phlex. She has a history.

[Al Swearegen]

Picking on a pregnant woman? A new low even for your Les.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,9579.495.html

Get up to speed Phlexor.

Explain "even for you" and then explain "picking on".  
As for her pregnancy. I chose not her pregnancy nor her words. Nor did I choose her to use them here.

So have a read. Have a think and try again mate. I am sure you have good cause to say what you did and I would like to hear it.

[Phlexor]

Picking on a pregnant woman? A new low even for your Les.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,9579.495.html

Get up to speed Phlexor.

Explain "even for you" and then explain "picking on".  
As for her pregnancy. I chose not her pregnancy nor her words. Nor did I choose her to use them here.

So have a read. Have a think and try again mate. I am sure you have good cause to say what you did and I would like to hear it.

Yeah, but what kind of cunt has a go at a pregnant woman, you know that it isn't all fun and games being pregnant, unless the reason you aren't married anymore is because you were an oblivious cunt to your ex wife.

I think it says more about your character than hers right now. You made a choice and have to live with the fact of that's how you look towards me now.

I don't imagine you give a shit but I felt I had to say something.

[Parts]

Picking on a pregnant woman? A new low even for your Les.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,9579.495.html

Get up to speed Phlexor.

Explain "even for you" and then explain "picking on".  
As for her pregnancy. I chose not her pregnancy nor her words. Nor did I choose her to use them here.

So have a read. Have a think and try again mate. I am sure you have good cause to say what you did and I would like to hear it.

Yeah, but what kind of cunt has a go at a pregnant woman, you know that it isn't all fun and games being pregnant, unless the reason you aren't married anymore is because you were an oblivious cunt to your ex wife.

I think it says more about your character than hers right now. You made a choice and have to live with the fact of that's how you look towards me now.

I don't imagine you give a shit but I felt I had to say something.

Pregnant or not that is not an issue nor the argument.  It has nothing to do with the call out at hand unless it is seen as a contributing factor to her remarks or her ability to defend them.  Using it as a blanket excuse reason not to call her out  is a poor excuse.  i have seen pregnant women do all kinds of things far more stressful than post on an internet forum.  She can stand up for herself.  That said I have no real idea what the call out is about just that pregnancy is not a reason not to call her on her own words

[Natalia Evans]

When was I bitching about him? I don't ever recall.

Really Kit? I think you are lying.
Let me help refresh that selective memory of yours then

Les left? :Sad face:


I have called Grantelli out on his bigotry stuff too by pointing out to him not all aspies are this way or that way and he knows that. If he isn't going to post here again, his problem. Just click on their profile and click "add foe" and you will never see their posts and problem solved.

No, just change the way you talk and learn to keep your mouth shut about things or learn to word things different so you don't come off as bigoted or whatever. Just stop being black and white about aspies or is that too hard? You act like we're all the same.

A good argument here. Will granatelli back out again like he always does?

I find it annoying when people back out of arguments. I like some good drama.

So how about you firstly own your position in this and secondly don't try to insinuate it was me against Granatelli

But let's continue because I have just scratched the surface.

You want drama and you want me to account for myself you better be prepare to do the same, because you are peddling bullshit and you know it.

I was not lying. I didn't know what your partner was talking about so I asked. She didn't answer and she said true so I assumed what I guessed was correct. People need to be more specific. She did say cross forum so I thought she meant here. That didn't make me a liar. I just misunderstood.

[Phlexor]

Look, you dicks can do whatever the hell you want, and I'm sure you will. I really don't give a fuck.

But you have to imagine that Kit right now is under a lot of stress. Considering she had a miscarriage before this pregnancy you can imagine that she is a little concerned about that happening again. Now I think she probably deserves a little slack at the moment.

Now like I said, call her out and what not, but don't act surprised when I think it's a cunt act.

All fake internet friendships/acquaintances aside, You act is becoming increasingly boring lately Les, give it a rest, you aren't the internet police.