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Author Topic: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?  (Read 4368 times)

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TheoK

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2008, 07:01:57 PM »
I'm sexy and eat healthy food and stuff. Of course I'd be tasty.  8)

Offline SovaNu

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2008, 10:11:53 PM »
it's about culture, not race. i don't have a problem with people moving to a country if they are willing to adapt. if your culture is to be gross and threatening and violent, that's not cool. i don't give a shit what race you are i will kick your ass. --unless you are cute and hot of course. :P
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Offline SovaNu

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2008, 10:13:13 PM »
Race is a boring concept - they're all human, just in different flavours. That said, I normally dislike humans. :zoinks:

 :indeed:
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duncvis

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2008, 02:07:37 AM »
it's about culture, not race. i don't have a problem with people moving to a country if they are willing to adapt. if your culture is to be gross and threatening and violent, that's not cool. i don't give a shit what race you are i will kick your ass. --unless you are cute and hot of course. :P

Totally agreed with bolded section. I'm not automatically prejudiced against members of any particular groups - in the most self-isolated communities you find individuals who accept that they have come to live in a country which has its OWN culture and traditions - which while nobody is expecting migrants to become carbon copies, I think its key to successfully integrating into the wider host community that incomers make an effort to understand how we do things here, and accept it. If I moved to say, Dubai, I would do myself a favour and show respect to my hosts by refraining from flouting their cultural taboos in public, learning a little about their culture (Arabic being the most useful start - I believe agreeing to learn English should be a prerequisite for granting citizenship), and accepting that while I might find some aspects of their society distasteful I am a guest. If I don't like it there, I should go back home to my own culture. Also some long established immigrant communities here still choose to isolate and segregate themselves from the wider community - which isn't healthy IMO, and has caused much damage and mutual mistrust in many Northern towns and cities. Anyone who denies this as a fact is wearing blinkers. I have had Muslim friends, neighbours, co-workers, classmates and get on well with most of em - I've been helped out many times by local Asians and generally prefer to break down in (most) Asian areas than a mainly white one, because in all likelihood I end up being helped by a growing assortment of locals. But a lot of folk wouldn't see the good in the 'weird' folk who keep to themselves unless they're delivering your takeaway or on the till at Morrisons - without more integration folk on either side of the divide don't actually get to know each other well, weakening the community. Which allows poisoned worldviews like the BNP's and Lit's to take hold, particularly among the ignorant.


Does that make sense?

duncvis

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2008, 02:15:53 AM »
I forgot to add - I would support deportation of migrants who commit serious offences. We have enough arseholes of our own in England without looking after anyone else's. And if that's not PC enough you can kiss my arse.

Offline Lucifer

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2008, 03:29:09 AM »

<snip>

Does that make sense?


perfect sense, and it's bang on.  :clap:

Offline Lucifer

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2008, 03:29:46 AM »
I forgot to add - I would support deportation of migrants who commit serious offences. We have enough arseholes of our own in England without looking after anyone else's. And if that's not PC enough you can kiss my arse.

"PC" is a poison, if you ask me.  and i agree with you.

Offline Callaway

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2008, 06:39:08 AM »
it's about culture, not race. i don't have a problem with people moving to a country if they are willing to adapt. if your culture is to be gross and threatening and violent, that's not cool. i don't give a shit what race you are i will kick your ass. --unless you are cute and hot of course. :P

Totally agreed with bolded section. I'm not automatically prejudiced against members of any particular groups - in the most self-isolated communities you find individuals who accept that they have come to live in a country which has its OWN culture and traditions - which while nobody is expecting migrants to become carbon copies, I think its key to successfully integrating into the wider host community that incomers make an effort to understand how we do things here, and accept it. If I moved to say, Dubai, I would do myself a favour and show respect to my hosts by refraining from flouting their cultural taboos in public, learning a little about their culture (Arabic being the most useful start - I believe agreeing to learn English should be a prerequisite for granting citizenship), and accepting that while I might find some aspects of their society distasteful I am a guest. If I don't like it there, I should go back home to my own culture. Also some long established immigrant communities here still choose to isolate and segregate themselves from the wider community - which isn't healthy IMO, and has caused much damage and mutual mistrust in many Northern towns and cities. Anyone who denies this as a fact is wearing blinkers. I have had Muslim friends, neighbours, co-workers, classmates and get on well with most of em - I've been helped out many times by local Asians and generally prefer to break down in (most) Asian areas than a mainly white one, because in all likelihood I end up being helped by a growing assortment of locals. But a lot of folk wouldn't see the good in the 'weird' folk who keep to themselves unless they're delivering your takeaway or on the till at Morrisons - without more integration folk on either side of the divide don't actually get to know each other well, weakening the community. Which allows poisoned worldviews like the BNP's and Lit's to take hold, particularly among the ignorant.


Does that make sense?


It makes perfect sense to me.

I think that many people have problems when a group moves into an area as an enclave and makes no efforts to accept and assimilate into the culture they moved into.

That is why I think the Mormons were driven in their migration toward Utah, and I think the Mormons would serve as an example of cultural differences without racial differences.

When the Mormons moved from place to place in the middle 1800's, they were "persecuted" because of their distinctive religious beliefs, which included polygamy and claims of divine favor, but also because they moved into areas as an enclave and did not assimilate into their communities, then their numbers grew rapidly and they voted in blocks to vote their religious leaders into office, which would change the secular communities into which they moved into Mormon communities.  This angered their neighbors, who became hostile and violent toward them.  Then the Mormons would move somewhere else, and the cycle repeated until finally Brigham Young, the new leader of the church after the murder of Joseph Smith, said that he had gotten divine inspiration to move the Mormons to Utah, which at that time was beyond the Western frontier of the US.

For the most part, the Mormons did not commit crimes, so if you have groups who form enclaves and voting blocks and some of them commit violent crimes against the residents of the communities they move into, that's even worse for the community and I can see how groups like the BNP are able to gain followers.

TheoK

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2008, 10:46:01 AM »
The rioting Muslims in Sweden this week got support from the "Anti Fascist Action". That was good for the media, because they could avoid being "racist" and blame the violence on the AFA instead.  ::)

duncvis

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2008, 10:58:15 AM »
Add to that the creeping poison of political correctness, with barmy councils suppressing expressions of our own culture while subsidising facilities for those who don't seem interested in integrating with us and you have a recipe for unrest. Which in many Northern cities is exactly what has happened, Burnley and Oldham being two of the worst affected areas. Bradford is also a tinderbox - it has a reputation for welcoming waves of newcomers, which it did, dating back to the Irish diaspora and the German merchant quarter, to the post-war settlement of Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Poles and Italians in many areas of the city, and a huge influx of (mainly Kashmiri) Pakistanis and to a lesser extent Indian, Bangladeshi, African and West Indian migrants in the fifties and sixties. Of these, the largest and most problematic group to integrate has been the Kashmiris, for reasons too numerous to go into. Actually getting to know each other and set some 'rules of engagement' in the early days before they were 100,000 strong may have helped avoid the segregation we see in the city today, and the toadyism/appeasement and resentments. It might also have helped avoid the periodic rioting.  >:(

TheoK

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2008, 10:58:16 AM »
"Anti fascists" in Gothenburg in June 2001:



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Offline odeon

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2008, 01:57:27 PM »
Yes. Why?

When? Where in Sweden? I have heard and seen them attacking cops but never firemen and ambulance people.

A mate of mine used to work at Larmtjänst (the people that answer the phone when you call 112, the Swedish equivalent of 911) and told me of several incidents, from domestic disturbances to nazi fuckwits such as yourself causing trouble.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2008, 01:58:56 PM »
it's about culture, not race. i don't have a problem with people moving to a country if they are willing to adapt. if your culture is to be gross and threatening and violent, that's not cool. i don't give a shit what race you are i will kick your ass. --unless you are cute and hot of course. :P

And the same holds true with those fellow countrymen who are unwilling to adapt--plenty of morons there.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2008, 02:00:39 PM »
it's about culture, not race. i don't have a problem with people moving to a country if they are willing to adapt. if your culture is to be gross and threatening and violent, that's not cool. i don't give a shit what race you are i will kick your ass. --unless you are cute and hot of course. :P

Totally agreed with bolded section. I'm not automatically prejudiced against members of any particular groups - in the most self-isolated communities you find individuals who accept that they have come to live in a country which has its OWN culture and traditions - which while nobody is expecting migrants to become carbon copies, I think its key to successfully integrating into the wider host community that incomers make an effort to understand how we do things here, and accept it. If I moved to say, Dubai, I would do myself a favour and show respect to my hosts by refraining from flouting their cultural taboos in public, learning a little about their culture (Arabic being the most useful start - I believe agreeing to learn English should be a prerequisite for granting citizenship), and accepting that while I might find some aspects of their society distasteful I am a guest. If I don't like it there, I should go back home to my own culture. Also some long established immigrant communities here still choose to isolate and segregate themselves from the wider community - which isn't healthy IMO, and has caused much damage and mutual mistrust in many Northern towns and cities. Anyone who denies this as a fact is wearing blinkers. I have had Muslim friends, neighbours, co-workers, classmates and get on well with most of em - I've been helped out many times by local Asians and generally prefer to break down in (most) Asian areas than a mainly white one, because in all likelihood I end up being helped by a growing assortment of locals. But a lot of folk wouldn't see the good in the 'weird' folk who keep to themselves unless they're delivering your takeaway or on the till at Morrisons - without more integration folk on either side of the divide don't actually get to know each other well, weakening the community. Which allows poisoned worldviews like the BNP's and Lit's to take hold, particularly among the ignorant.


Does that make sense?


A lot of sense.

Some of my former countrymen chose to isolate themselves after moving from Finland to Sweden. After 30 odd years, they still don't speak the language well enough to get by.
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Re: Is it inherently racist to worry about immigration?
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2008, 04:58:50 PM »
it's about culture, not race. i don't have a problem with people moving to a country if they are willing to adapt. if your culture is to be gross and threatening and violent, that's not cool. i don't give a shit what race you are i will kick your ass. --unless you are cute and hot of course. :P
Actually I would say it goes further than that - the boundaries are in essence more on civilisation lines. Needless to say though, we should only have immigrate here those who we integrate. Clearly what is going off in Sweden is immigration gone too far with the wrong groups of people - hence riots.