McCainics throwing a temper tantrum about Obama winning

[DirtDawg]

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

The ones in Detroit, for example, the ones with their water turned off because they are out of work and cannot pay their bills. That's the kind of poverty I assume you're ignoring here.

For the record, I'm not agreeing with Hadron about socialism, but I think you're making a terrible mistake by not acknowledging that there is real poverty in the US. You ignoring them will not make them go away.

True.
There are small pockets of destitute, hourly wager earners-out of work and immigrants (legal and otherwise) in every major city. We can't ignore them forever and they don't just die gracefully and disappear. Something will have to be done to get them back on their feet, short term, then it's up to them. The notion that a permanent fix is possible is like looking at the sky and seeing pie. There will always be a new influx of poor.

Taking away the upper middle class's future will not stop it though. The first politician to lay all his assets at the foot of the starving homeless will get some attention, for sure, but asking me to lay mine down while they keep theirs will lead to a fight.

[odeon]

What gets me about these poor is the fact that they live near one of the largest (if not THE largest) freshwater reservoirs in the world, yet somebody turns off their water. that be.

I'm not saying that society should pay for them for all eternity, but why is it that I so often see people like Johnny assuming that it's their own fault? These people were so ashamed by this--they, too, somehow assumed it was their fault--that they wanted the cameras to be turned off and wouldn't answer any questions until assured that the TV spot would be transmitted half a globe away. The American Dream turning a nightmare?

I hope there will be change.

[Johnny]

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

The ones in Detroit, for example, the ones with their water turned off because they are out of work and cannot pay their bills. That's the kind of poverty I assume you're ignoring here.

For the record, I'm not agreeing with Hadron about socialism, but I think you're making a terrible mistake by not acknowledging that there is real poverty in the US. You ignoring them will not make them go away.

we have an estimated 20 million ghosts living in the country who manage to find places to live and pay their bills even though they aren't even legally supposed to be in the country. They do it by working any job they can find and sharing dwellings.

http://www.freep.com/

all sorts of jobs in the detriot area and with the amount of cheap housing easy enough for a few adults to work some McJobs and come up with the rent & utility money every month if they share a place.

maybe you think people are ENTITLED to have their own place, but there is no such requirement over here or restriction on moving to someplace with better oppertunities. The illegal immigrants seems to manage to travel to find work so I'm sure if somebody in detriot got off their sorry butt they might manage to do it same as their parents or grandparents managed to get to michigan looking for work they can manage to get out of there to find work.

[Christopher McCandless]

Obama is a rich kid, just not at the same level as the super rich. He is upper middle class.

Not really - he didn't even pay off his college loan until about 4 years ago. What a rich kid...

The guy is no different than the upper middle class white woman driving into the ghetto in her jaguar to teach school, clueless because they have never had to deal with life on the wrong side of the tracks.

Obama has had to deal with life on that side ffs - go and read up on his life story.

There is theory and than there is reality

I could almost write a book about how to fix trucking, it would sound great and in reality implimenting it and getting everyone to do their part is another thing so in theory it would look good, in reality it would never happen.

My guess is you can't even comprehend where I'm coming from because it's an abstraction to you if you are from a stable middle class or upper middle class family.

Abstraction? All you are repeating is the same ridiculous conservative spiel - you know all the wonderful theories about tax cuts trickling down onto ordinary people and all that nonsense. If you want to see practise - take a look at Europe (hint, hint - most of you might want to buy a passport for that). A walk beyond your closed borders might just do you some good.

[Christopher McCandless]

Here's an article on this IRA talk from the right:

401(k)s and IRAs to be nationalized?


"The Carolina Journal reports,
Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration. Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly. The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration."

Seems like a brilliant idea to me. You know - actually ensuring that workers have a pension to retire on. Shame it wasn't done a few years ago to tell the truth.

Over here we get guaranteed payouts - and most people are very happy with them. The richer can choose to put their money in an ISA - but any employer backed scheme tends to be better.

You are too stupid to get any of this, aren't you. It has been done, already, promised to be a certain way, then changed, then changed, again.

Yes I remember the Bill Clinton "with this pen I will sign..." speech. He would have signed it - if the American people were not stupid enough to elect more than 40 Republican Senators. This is not stupidity on my part - all these systems work pretty well in Europe. Surely the nation that prides itself at being "#1" can manage a pension system. Or am I expecting too much.
[/quote]
 Social Security is a bankrupt failure. Pumping it up with the monies that were "guaranteed"  to be secure (and personally controllable) is not going to fix it. It doesn't work.
[/quote]
Don't re-elect the Republicans then! If Bill Clinton's spending plans were followed - you would have had the money to fill the black hole about 5 or so times over.

The employers'  pension burdens are being removed, BTW. This is a classic leftist money grab, nothing more.

Read it, idiot!

Get a passport and look beyond your own borders. Hell if you can't afford a passport - at least head to Canada and get an inkling.

[Christopher McCandless]

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

The ones in Detroit, for example, the ones with their water turned off because they are out of work and cannot pay their bills. That's the kind of poverty I assume you're ignoring here.

For the record, I'm not agreeing with Hadron about socialism, but I think you're making a terrible mistake by not acknowledging that there is real poverty in the US. You ignoring them will not make them go away.

we have an estimated 20 million ghosts living in the country who manage to find places to live and pay their bills even though they aren't even legally supposed to be in the country. They do it by working any job they can find and sharing dwellings.

http://www.freep.com/

all sorts of jobs in the detriot area and with the amount of cheap housing easy enough for a few adults to work some McJobs and come up with the rent & utility money every month if they share a place.

maybe you think people are ENTITLED to have their own place, but there is no such requirement over here or restriction on moving to someplace with better oppertunities. The illegal immigrants seems to manage to travel to find work so I'm sure if somebody in detriot got off their sorry butt they might manage to do it same as their parents or grandparents managed to get to michigan looking for work they can manage to get out of there to find work.

Yeah because paying someone $1 an hour is the mark of a developed civilised nation. What happened to humanity.

[SovaNu]

i fucking love you Had.

[DirtDawg]

i fucking love you Had.

I do, too. I've been in hundreds of these types of discussions with teeanage, pie-eyed know-it-alls when I was in photography work.
They go around in circles, saying the same thing, because that's really all they know to do.
The best part is watching them change and grow.

[Johnny]

Obama is a rich kid, just not at the same level as the super rich. He is upper middle class.

Not really - he didn't even pay off his college loan until about 4 years ago. What a rich kid...

The guy is no different than the upper middle class white woman driving into the ghetto in her jaguar to teach school, clueless because they have never had to deal with life on the wrong side of the tracks.

Obama has had to deal with life on that side ffs - go and read up on his life story.

There is theory and than there is reality

I could almost write a book about how to fix trucking, it would sound great and in reality implimenting it and getting everyone to do their part is another thing so in theory it would look good, in reality it would never happen.

My guess is you can't even comprehend where I'm coming from because it's an abstraction to you if you are from a stable middle class or upper middle class family.

Abstraction? All you are repeating is the same ridiculous conservative spiel - you know all the wonderful theories about tax cuts trickling down onto ordinary people and all that nonsense. If you want to see practise - take a look at Europe (hint, hint - most of you might want to buy a passport for that). A walk beyond your closed borders might just do you some good.

Obama's life story, wealthy grandparents.  Just not a bottomless pit or willing to pay all his bills to teach him some responsablity.
His mother was 18 when he was born and made a career out of going to college and playing peace corp volunteer type while her parents sent her child to private school. Filthy rich family,no. But surely not hurting at all.

I have no clue what (( ffs ) code stands for.

Reagan's trickle down was blown to hell because of Ted Kennedy gutting the mid 1980's immigration bill of employer penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. Labor is basic supply and demand, increase the supply of labor and it's hard to demand a living wage.

Why should I go to europe, I'm not sticking my nose in those peoples business, you should come here and see first hand what you are blowing off at the mouth about and than maybe you might have a clue what you are ranting about.







 you think better government can help them ROFLMFAO
I can't even watch much more than a minute of them and they live like that thinking it's normal.

[TheoK]

Welfare isn't even necessarily a socialist mean. The first welfare state in Europe wasn't Sweden or the UK but imperial Germany. Bismarck was the first to introduce minimum wages, workers' rights and pensions at about the same time slavery was abolished in the USA. 

Our European welfare systems are undermined through low native birth rates in combination with almost unlimited immigration of unskilled refugees and criminals from the Balkans, Middle East and Africa. The systems themselves are very good. To literally end up on the street in a western or northern European country you must really avoid contact with the welfare authorities.

As an Aspie I get 94% of my rent paid by the state, for instance. I also got my study loan debt cancelled just by an attest by my doctor; it was about US$ 35000... And every Swede gets free dental care by the county until s/he is 20 years old...Even private kindergartens and schools are financed by the state. A chief surgeon at a hospital doesn't earn more than about 5 times what a fully paid nurse earns.

I never pay more than US$125/ year for health care paid by the county. A similar system goes for medication. Visiting my shrink, who is a chief psychiatrician, costs about US$ 40. My mum works as an official and thus gets all her health care and medication paid by the state. X-ray examinations and STD examinations are free for everyone, since they're a matter of national health.

[Christopher McCandless]

i fucking love you Had.

I do, too. I've been in hundreds of these types of discussions with teeanage, pie-eyed know-it-alls when I was in photography work.
They go around in circles, saying the same thing, because that's really all they know to do.
The best part is watching them change and grow.

So you guys wouldn't mind if I printed some of these responses off and gave them out in my tutorial presentation (on nothing other than equality). I think the reaction might be interesting.

[Pyraxis]

What reaction do you think they would get?

[Christopher McCandless]

Obama is a rich kid, just not at the same level as the super rich. He is upper middle class.

Not really - he didn't even pay off his college loan until about 4 years ago. What a rich kid...

The guy is no different than the upper middle class white woman driving into the ghetto in her jaguar to teach school, clueless because they have never had to deal with life on the wrong side of the tracks.

Obama has had to deal with life on that side ffs - go and read up on his life story.

There is theory and than there is reality

I could almost write a book about how to fix trucking, it would sound great and in reality implimenting it and getting everyone to do their part is another thing so in theory it would look good, in reality it would never happen.

My guess is you can't even comprehend where I'm coming from because it's an abstraction to you if you are from a stable middle class or upper middle class family.

Abstraction? All you are repeating is the same ridiculous conservative spiel - you know all the wonderful theories about tax cuts trickling down onto ordinary people and all that nonsense. If you want to see practise - take a look at Europe (hint, hint - most of you might want to buy a passport for that). A walk beyond your closed borders might just do you some good.

Obama's life story, wealthy grandparents.  Just not a bottomless pit or willing to pay all his bills to teach him some responsablity.
His mother was 18 when he was born and made a career out of going to college and playing peace corp volunteer type while her parents sent her child to private school. Filthy rich family,no. But surely not hurting at all.

You missed off the fair few years when Obama was in Indonesia that's for sure....

I have no clue what (( ffs ) code stands for.

Ask nicely and you might find out.

Reagan's trickle down was blown to hell because of Ted Kennedy gutting the mid 1980's immigration bill of employer penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. Labor is basic supply and demand, increase the supply of labor and it's hard to demand a living wage.

I was referring to the Bush tax cut actually in this case, but Reaganomics was little better. Putting everyone on a minimum wage might cost you a few billion dollars - well worth the benefits. Obama would be doing it on his opening day if your idiotic countrymen hadn't voted the Republicans in.

Why should I go to europe, I'm not sticking my nose in those peoples business, you should come here and see first hand what you are blowing off at the mouth about and than maybe you might have a clue what you are ranting about.







 you think better government can help them ROFLMFAO
I can't even watch much more than a minute of them and they live like that thinking it's normal.

Niggers - is that what you mean by "them"? I thought your governments solution was to lock them up on mass. Over here we are a little more progressive and treat them (rightfully) as equals.

Btw - I have visited the US. Isn't it time you paid a return visit? Or are you agoraphobic?

[Christopher McCandless]

What reaction do you think they would get?

Well the 2-3 rahs who have descended from the steps of their parents country home to spend time with mere mortals might back them - but even in my ridiculous (disgustingly conservative) university I doubt many are going to disagree with me. Bear in mind I tend to be a pariah normally in tutorials - not wanting to lick David Cameron's arse.

[Christopher McCandless]

Welfare isn't even necessarily a socialist mean. The first welfare state in Europe wasn't Sweden or the UK but imperial Germany. Bismarck was the first to introduce minimum wages, workers' rights and pensions at about the same time slavery was abolished in the USA. 

Socialism is a very broad area of the political spectrum - really its split into several categories (including for instance Social Democracy and Communism). The welfare state is primarily a leftest thing - or at least very interconnected with it.

Our European welfare systems are undermined through low native birth rates in combination with almost unlimited immigration of unskilled refugees and criminals from the Balkans, Middle East and Africa. The systems themselves are very good. To literally end up on the street in a western or northern European country you must really avoid contact with the welfare authorities.

Britain hasn't done too badly out of immigration really - though now we are beginning to cut down.

As an Aspie I get 94% of my rent paid by the state, for instance. I also got my study loan debt cancelled just by an attest by my doctor; it was about US$ 35000... And every Swede gets free dental care by the county until s/he is 20 years old...Even private kindergartens and schools are financed by the state. A chief surgeon at a hospital doesn't earn more than about 5 times what a fully paid nurse earns.

Just wondering - are you currently employed yourself, and would that make much difference in terms of what benefit you get?

I never pay more than US$125/ year for health care paid by the county. A similar system goes for medication. Visiting my shrink, who is a chief psychiatrician, costs about US$ 40. My mum works as an official and thus gets all her health care and medication paid by the state. X-ray examinations and STD examinations are free for everyone, since they're a matter of national health.

Have you seen Sicko yet? Aspie's in the US can't even get health insurance.