McCainics throwing a temper tantrum about Obama winning

[DirtDawg]

Here's an article on this IRA talk from the right:

401(k)s and IRAs to be nationalized?


"The Carolina Journal reports,
Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration. Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly. The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration."

[Parts]

If it gets further I will take the tax penalty and pull my money out and buy gold

[DirtDawg]

If it gets further I will take the tax penalty and pull my money out and buy gold

One of the reasons this discussion is being pressed, RIGHT NOW, is that just the talk will cause many people to become anxious/worried, panic, take out their IRAs, and pay out billions of dollars in tax revenue. The taxes will come mostly from the middle class.

That would be a double hit, though, because Wall Street is down, still. It's a very bad time to cash in investments. Wise investors are buying stocks, right now.

[Johnny]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20081114/cm_csm/yhoyle;_ylt=AmxTVM0WK9uaT3Q__GwuFDas0NUE

Obama's impact on 'Generation We'

give it a few months and they will change the channel

[Christopher McCandless]

what bright side ?

Obama is almost certainly going to go down in the history books up with Abe Lincoln. He will be an amazing president.

We lived through the rest of them we will survive Obama as we would have survived McCain.  

Survive? Obama will do more than that for America - he will bring the nation so far forward.

I am glad he won but we have yet to see how he will do.  My hopes are that he will, my expectations are it will be Washington as usual,  my fears are losing more rights and paying more taxes

Paying more taxes isn't necessarily a bad thing imo and some of these "rights" really shouldn't be there at all. I would love to see the US become socialist.

... at every part of that bullshit.

You kind of wonder why European societies have few people in poverty, don't have their ceo's earning 500-1000 times as much as the average worker and so on. The fact is - you, the average US citizen would be so much better off under a socialist system than the current one. Do you want your kids to have good healthcare, education and opportunities or not?

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

Go and live that lifestyle if it is so good. Thought not? But if you want an example of your own social injustice - look how much every person is expected to spend on their college education. How about you ask Tesla about his recent $5000 medical bill. It would never happen in Europe.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

So basically if people get sick - leave them to rot? What if the same were to happen to you. Its time you all quit dreaming about that Horatio Alger myth and collectively gained some humanity as a nation. With Obama in charge - hopefully your nation might take a step in the right direction.

it would never happen in europe because you don't have a culture of dysfunctional people like the USA does. They don't even try to make a go of it, just cry they are victims making life harder on everyone else.

11% of birth are to teenage mothers plus all the early 20's girls who aren't established in life having babies creates a giant class of mooches to support.

The morons uncivilized kids create problems for the school systems adding cost to it and many of the kids end up in trouble with the law costing the US taxpayers more money, it's just a snowball effect of dysfunction causing everyone to pay and suffer because of it.

we got people in this country who think just like you do and compare the USA to europe and say why don't we do what they do ,it's because of the moron single mothers popping out babies they are too young to take care of on their own. They don't get established in life prior to having children so they aren't a burden on society.

If you had a proper education system (like on continental Europe - we in the UK have a quite a problem with single mothers atm) - how many of these dysfunctional people would be having children? Education is the only way to break the cycle - but you need to do so with both parent and child at the same time.

[Christopher McCandless]

what bright side ?

Obama is almost certainly going to go down in the history books up with Abe Lincoln. He will be an amazing president.

We lived through the rest of them we will survive Obama as we would have survived McCain.  

Survive? Obama will do more than that for America - he will bring the nation so far forward.

I am glad he won but we have yet to see how he will do.  My hopes are that he will, my expectations are it will be Washington as usual,  my fears are losing more rights and paying more taxes

Paying more taxes isn't necessarily a bad thing imo and some of these "rights" really shouldn't be there at all. I would love to see the US become socialist.

... at every part of that bullshit.

You kind of wonder why European societies have few people in poverty, don't have their ceo's earning 500-1000 times as much as the average worker and so on. The fact is - you, the average US citizen would be so much better off under a socialist system than the current one. Do you want your kids to have good healthcare, education and opportunities or not?

I'm not going to post my financial statement, but I will tell you once again that you're full of shit and I already know what would happen to those of us in our income range, under a socialist rule. We would be fucked.
Don't feel bad, though. A large percentage of school kids in this country are socialist, just like you are, holding their empty palms out at those of us who have already worked our whole lives (thank you), so they can take away what we have earned the hard way. I don't want my great country to turn into a euro-style country. No thanks.

Your income range? Under a more socialist society I doubt you would be working in Walmart to tell the truth, but lets say you were (so lets say you take home $40,000 a year and lived in GB). The amount of tax credits, pension, health and education benefits (thats right you could even go back to school if you wanted - subsidised) you and your family would be way better off. Its only the top 10% that lose out.

PS: We also have a greater GDP per person whilst at it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

[Christopher McCandless]

Here's an article on this IRA talk from the right:

401(k)s and IRAs to be nationalized?


"The Carolina Journal reports,
Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration. Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly. The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration."

Seems like a brilliant idea to me. You know - actually ensuring that workers have a pension to retire on. Shame it wasn't done a few years ago to tell the truth.

Over here we get guaranteed payouts - and most people are very happy with them. The richer can choose to put their money in an ISA - but any employer backed scheme tends to be better.

[Johnny]

what bright side ?

Obama is almost certainly going to go down in the history books up with Abe Lincoln. He will be an amazing president.

We lived through the rest of them we will survive Obama as we would have survived McCain.  

Survive? Obama will do more than that for America - he will bring the nation so far forward.

I am glad he won but we have yet to see how he will do.  My hopes are that he will, my expectations are it will be Washington as usual,  my fears are losing more rights and paying more taxes

Paying more taxes isn't necessarily a bad thing imo and some of these "rights" really shouldn't be there at all. I would love to see the US become socialist.

... at every part of that bullshit.

You kind of wonder why European societies have few people in poverty, don't have their ceo's earning 500-1000 times as much as the average worker and so on. The fact is - you, the average US citizen would be so much better off under a socialist system than the current one. Do you want your kids to have good healthcare, education and opportunities or not?

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

Go and live that lifestyle if it is so good. Thought not? But if you want an example of your own social injustice - look how much every person is expected to spend on their college education. How about you ask Tesla about his recent $5000 medical bill. It would never happen in Europe.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

So basically if people get sick - leave them to rot? What if the same were to happen to you. Its time you all quit dreaming about that Horatio Alger myth and collectively gained some humanity as a nation. With Obama in charge - hopefully your nation might take a step in the right direction.

it would never happen in europe because you don't have a culture of dysfunctional people like the USA does. They don't even try to make a go of it, just cry they are victims making life harder on everyone else.

11% of birth are to teenage mothers plus all the early 20's girls who aren't established in life having babies creates a giant class of mooches to support.

The morons uncivilized kids create problems for the school systems adding cost to it and many of the kids end up in trouble with the law costing the US taxpayers more money, it's just a snowball effect of dysfunction causing everyone to pay and suffer because of it.

we got people in this country who think just like you do and compare the USA to europe and say why don't we do what they do ,it's because of the moron single mothers popping out babies they are too young to take care of on their own. They don't get established in life prior to having children so they aren't a burden on society.

If you had a proper education system (like on continental Europe - we in the UK have a quite a problem with single mothers atm) - how many of these dysfunctional people would be having children? Education is the only way to break the cycle - but you need to do so with both parent and child at the same time.

There is no educating people who refuse to be educated.

We have these creatures from another planet called school teachers who roll into ghetto school yards in their jaguar's and are looked at as people from another planet because to the ghetto kids they are. We have two societies and no positive roll models in the ghetto's the kids can connect with.

America has a caste system in place with jobs tied to who's crotch somebody got yanked out of and the ethnic group they are part of. It's one big good old boy system with no admittance into the inner circle without an invitation which is only extended to people they can use for something and who will put up with being used hoping to be accepted. Pretty woman do it trying to get into the inner circle and really smart guys do it trying to get into the inner circle.

Our politics is nothing more than the born right ( Bush) on one side against the other side which is nothing more then Revenge of The Nerds ( Obama) The libtards don't care about helping the little people, just taking out revenge against the pretty people born right who weren't ejected from the inner circle for being goobers ( al gore, nancy pelosi )
People like Obama quickly figure out where they stand in places like harvard and the private work force, they stand behind the born right bunch and always will so instead of playing second string to Richie Rich's kid for life they seek out revenge against the rich bastards.

[Christopher McCandless]

what bright side ?

Obama is almost certainly going to go down in the history books up with Abe Lincoln. He will be an amazing president.

We lived through the rest of them we will survive Obama as we would have survived McCain.  

Survive? Obama will do more than that for America - he will bring the nation so far forward.

I am glad he won but we have yet to see how he will do.  My hopes are that he will, my expectations are it will be Washington as usual,  my fears are losing more rights and paying more taxes

Paying more taxes isn't necessarily a bad thing imo and some of these "rights" really shouldn't be there at all. I would love to see the US become socialist.

... at every part of that bullshit.

You kind of wonder why European societies have few people in poverty, don't have their ceo's earning 500-1000 times as much as the average worker and so on. The fact is - you, the average US citizen would be so much better off under a socialist system than the current one. Do you want your kids to have good healthcare, education and opportunities or not?

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

Go and live that lifestyle if it is so good. Thought not? But if you want an example of your own social injustice - look how much every person is expected to spend on their college education. How about you ask Tesla about his recent $5000 medical bill. It would never happen in Europe.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

So basically if people get sick - leave them to rot? What if the same were to happen to you. Its time you all quit dreaming about that Horatio Alger myth and collectively gained some humanity as a nation. With Obama in charge - hopefully your nation might take a step in the right direction.

it would never happen in europe because you don't have a culture of dysfunctional people like the USA does. They don't even try to make a go of it, just cry they are victims making life harder on everyone else.

11% of birth are to teenage mothers plus all the early 20's girls who aren't established in life having babies creates a giant class of mooches to support.

The morons uncivilized kids create problems for the school systems adding cost to it and many of the kids end up in trouble with the law costing the US taxpayers more money, it's just a snowball effect of dysfunction causing everyone to pay and suffer because of it.

we got people in this country who think just like you do and compare the USA to europe and say why don't we do what they do ,it's because of the moron single mothers popping out babies they are too young to take care of on their own. They don't get established in life prior to having children so they aren't a burden on society.

If you had a proper education system (like on continental Europe - we in the UK have a quite a problem with single mothers atm) - how many of these dysfunctional people would be having children? Education is the only way to break the cycle - but you need to do so with both parent and child at the same time.

There is no educating people who refuse to be educated.

Children cannot refuse to be educated. Parents could have their benefits controlled / restricted if they refused to attend certain classes, or even have their kids taken into care.

We have these creatures from another planet called school teachers who roll into ghetto school yards in their jaguar's and are looked at as people from another planet because to the ghetto kids they are. We have two societies and no positive roll models in the ghetto's the kids can connect with.

If these school districts had enough money on the other hand - they could retain people that could relate to these people. In fact Obama makes the point in his book (I really encourage you read it before you pass judgement on the man - hell if you guys don't want him we will gladly have him)

America has a caste system in place with jobs tied to who's crotch somebody got yanked out of and the ethnic group they are part of. It's one big good old boy system with no admittance into the inner circle without an invitation which is only extended to people they can use for something and who will put up with being used hoping to be accepted. Pretty woman do it trying to get into the inner circle and really smart guys do it trying to get into the inner circle.

If people voted the Democrats in on a landslide then the politics would move so fast in the right direction. If Obama can keep his momentum up and get past the 60 seat barrier in the Senate in two years time then you might see the change go through as I am talking about.

Btw - we have the same problem over here (all the born brats seem to show up at my uni), but it is possible to break through a lot more compared to your country.

Our politics is nothing more than the born right ( Bush) on one side against the other side which is nothing more then Revenge of The Nerds ( Obama) The libtards don't care about helping the little people, just taking out revenge against the pretty people born right who weren't ejected from the inner circle for being goobers ( al gore, nancy pelosi )
People like Obama quickly figure out where they stand in places like harvard and the private work force, they stand behind the born right bunch and always will so instead of playing second string to Richie Rich's kid for life they seek out revenge against the rich bastards.

Again - please go and read Obama's book with an open mind, it would really save me writing a bloody thesis here. The other thing with politicians is they will say one thing publicly (so they can get a smidgen of what they believe in through) and actually believe something a lot better privately. The only way you can really see this for yourself is to join the Democratic party and ask your local representative if you can go campaigning with them. Soon enough in most cases you should see what they actually stand for.

[Johnny]

Obama is a rich kid, just not at the same level as the super rich. He is upper middle class.

The guy is no different than the upper middle class white woman driving into the ghetto in her jaguar to teach school, clueless because they have never had to deal with life on the wrong side of the tracks.

There is theory and than there is reality

I could almost write a book about how to fix trucking, it would sound great and in reality implimenting it and getting everyone to do their part is another thing so in theory it would look good, in reality it would never happen.

My guess is you can't even comprehend where I'm coming from because it's an abstraction to you if you are from a stable middle class or upper middle class family.

[DirtDawg]

Here's an article on this IRA talk from the right:

401(k)s and IRAs to be nationalized?


"The Carolina Journal reports,
Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration. Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly. The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration."

Seems like a brilliant idea to me. You know - actually ensuring that workers have a pension to retire on. Shame it wasn't done a few years ago to tell the truth.

Over here we get guaranteed payouts - and most people are very happy with them. The richer can choose to put their money in an ISA - but any employer backed scheme tends to be better.

You are too stupid to get any of this, aren't you. It has been done, already, promised to be a certain way, then changed, then changed, again. Social Security is a bankrupt failure. Pumping it up with the monies that were "guaranteed"  to be secure (and personally controllable) is not going to fix it. It doesn't work.

The employers'  pension burdens are being removed, BTW. This is a classic leftist money grab, nothing more.

Read it, idiot!

[Parts]

If it gets further I will take the tax penalty and pull my money out and buy gold

One of the reasons this discussion is being pressed, RIGHT NOW, is that just the talk will cause many people to become anxious/worried, panic, take out their IRAs, and pay out billions of dollars in tax revenue. The taxes will come mostly from the middle class.

That would be a double hit, though, because Wall Street is down, still. It's a very bad time to cash in investments. Wise investors are buying stocks, right now.

They might be buying stocks but I done want he Gov. doing for me.  Let them take there hit I want none of my money in something like that.  If they leave it alone I will leave it there till I retire otherwise I want it

[DirtDawg]

If it gets further I will take the tax penalty and pull my money out and buy gold

One of the reasons this discussion is being pressed, RIGHT NOW, is that just the talk will cause many people to become anxious/worried, panic, take out their IRAs, and pay out billions of dollars in tax revenue. The taxes will come mostly from the middle class.

That would be a double hit, though, because Wall Street is down, still. It's a very bad time to cash in investments. Wise investors are buying stocks, right now.

They might be buying stocks but I done want he Gov. doing for me.  Let them take there hit I want none of my money in something like that.  If they leave it alone I will leave it there till I retire otherwise I want it

I just meant that where your stocks are invested has already taken a huge hit, on average. Most people who are jumping out are losing ten to twelve year's growth.  If you have actually managed to tread the waters staying even, then you are unique. Most of the IRAs which depend heavily on investments in the stock market are way down, surprisingly further than you may expect.

Don't DO IT, yet!

[Parts]

O won't do it unless I here that they are going to take it over otherwise it just sits there

[odeon]

what people in poverty ? with the housing vouchers, food vouchers, health care vouches and everything else they are only listed as living below the poverty level because of the size of their paycheck which doesn't account for all the handouts.

It's as stupid as saying a millionaires kids is living in poverty because he has no money and ignoring the fact his parents take care of him. The so called poor in this country have Uncle Sugar supplying the food & shelter & medical care so aren't poor by any means, just dysfunctional an unable to manage their own life and we pay the overhead for the army of government babysitters that run their lives because they are too lazy too.

The ones in Detroit, for example, the ones with their water turned off because they are out of work and cannot pay their bills. That's the kind of poverty I assume you're ignoring here.

For the record, I'm not agreeing with Hadron about socialism, but I think you're making a terrible mistake by not acknowledging that there is real poverty in the US. You ignoring them will not make them go away.