Wrong Planet.

[odeon]

Many European countries have such laws like Belgium. In some countries you can get jailed for months without even "addressing" your "hatred" at a specific group. I read a story about a man in Germany who got 5 months in jail for teaching his dog to raise his right front leg. No, it's not a joke. And the dog ended up in a "foster home" where an animal psychologist should learn him not to raise his leg that high. No, it's still not a joke...

Link, please.

[odeon]

Telling on someone to their ISP because they have views that you do not agree with is pretty damn pathetic.   I could see if the person in question was admitting to actual wrongdoing (murder, rape, paedophilia, etc)., but this is just someone stating their opinion.    Having discussions over differing points of view is very different than actually mistreating people.    Is Odeon actually going out of his way to tattle on someone, just because he finds his views to be offensive?   "Snitch" behavior is something that should be looked down upon in the case of opinions and laws based on having such opinions.   I think it is disgusting of Belgium to have such a law, to be honest. 

Alex, do you understand why some countries, Belgium included, introduced an anti-Holocaust law?

[The_Chosen_One]

Jesus Christ, I've never seen a bunch of ignorant fucktards like the mods over at Wankplanet  . I doubt that between them they have the collective IQ of a house-plant. After my first banning, I was tempted to ask nicely for reinstatement, but seeing as they weren't playing fair, I thought 'fuck them' with something hard and sandpapery. MrMark, a socially inept arsehole who,lives in a garage; probably gets a chill whenever the garage door is opened. He needn't worry, the fumes from the car exhaust will keep him high. Quatermass, oh what a closet drama queen he is; if only he would come out from behind the overcoats and let us give him a good reaming  . As for the other two, well there is lau, a so called Englishman whose grasp of the language is about as good as the local Pakistani chip shop owner, and he has about as much tact as a steam roller laying asphalt. And then there is sinsbadly, who may well once have been a dude, who had children taken off 'her' when 'she' was 18. No wonder she is so bitter and twisted. Couldn't even commit suicide properly, so she must be aright failure. Spends most of her time haging around zOMG without posting. Probably trolling to report any wrongdoings. Tsk tsk. So you can see, they are a right bunch of fucktards.

[renaeden]

On Topic Alert!

Good on you, TCO.

[IlluSionS667]

Hm. Have you actually agreed to put the site's ideals above your own or not? In the past you've said the place is what the users make it, but you've also said (I think) that you're the despot.

First of all, what ideals?

He's probably referring to this site's supposed dedication to freedom of speech and open debate, which you are currently objecting to because you don't like the topic. 

Many European countries have such laws like Belgium. In some countries you can get jailed for months without even "addressing" your "hatred" at a specific group. I read a story about a man in Germany who got 5 months in jail for teaching his dog to raise his right front leg. No, it's not a joke. And the dog ended up in a "foster home" where an animal psychologist should learn him not to raise his leg that high. No, it's still not a joke...

Link, please.

Why must people always provide you information on a platter (which you then ignore if you don't like the info)?

Anyway, I'm not sure but I assume he's referring to this case --> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-503870/Howl-Hitler-German-taught-dog-Nazi-salute-paw-jailed.html

Alex, do you understand why some countries, Belgium included, introduced an anti-Holocaust law?

Because it's run by incompetent assholes who no better than you see the difference between questioning history books and promoting genocide?!?

[The_Chosen_One]

Hm. Have you actually agreed to put the site's ideals above your own or not? In the past you've said the place is what the users make it, but you've also said (I think) that you're the despot.

First of all, what ideals?

He's probably referring to this site's supposed dedication to freedom of speech and open debate, which you are currently objecting to because you don't like the topic. 

Many European countries have such laws like Belgium. In some countries you can get jailed for months without even "addressing" your "hatred" at a specific group. I read a story about a man in Germany who got 5 months in jail for teaching his dog to raise his right front leg. No, it's not a joke. And the dog ended up in a "foster home" where an animal psychologist should learn him not to raise his leg that high. No, it's still not a joke...

Link, please.

Why must people always provide you information on a platter (which you then ignore if you don't like the info)?

Anyway, I'm not sure but I assume he's referring to this case --> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-503870/Howl-Hitler-German-taught-dog-Nazi-salute-paw-jailed.html

Alex, do you understand why some countries, Belgium included, introduced an anti-Holocaust law?

Because it's run by incompetent assholes who no better than you see the difference between questioning history books and promoting genocide?!?

No, it's because the whole lot of them have their heads so far up their arses they can give themselves colonoscopies without the anaesthesia. Bullshit laws like the dog one prove how fucking retarded the authorities can be, and that's why fucktards like them should be subject to rule 303. Personally, I think what the Nazis did was obscene BUT the fucking thing was an exaggeration. The 6 million figure only works if you include the gypsies and well as all the Russian Jews and the other non-persons sent to the death camps. There is no fucking way there could have been that many Jews alone killed off when you consider the population of Australia in WWII was around 7.5 million. It's all propaganda put forward by that Wiesenthal idiot, who had probably only heard about the death camps through the newspapers anyway. Who gives a shit now, anyway, It's 2008, move on.

[IlluSionS667]

Personally, I think what the Nazis did was obscene BUT the fucking thing was an exaggeration. The 6 million figure only works if you include the gypsies and well as all the Russian Jews and the other non-persons sent to the death camps. There is no fucking way there could have been that many Jews alone killed off when you consider the population of Australia in WWII was around 7.5 million.

Even this mild criticism of the Holocaust myth would be regarded as "minimalisation of the Holocaust" and is a crime in several countries. That's how dogmatic the entire question is looked upon, which in fact actually speaks in favor of Holocaust Revisionism. After all, only lies need such totalitarian protection to survive.

[Christopher McCandless]

Many European countries have such laws like Belgium. In some countries you can get jailed for months without even "addressing" your "hatred" at a specific group. I read a story about a man in Germany who got 5 months in jail for teaching his dog to raise his right front leg. No, it's not a joke. And the dog ended up in a "foster home" where an animal psychologist should learn him not to raise his leg that high. No, it's still not a joke...

Link, please.

This one flew around the media a while back:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,524268,00.html

[Al Swearegen]

Telling on someone to their ISP because they have views that you do not agree with is pretty damn pathetic.   I could see if the person in question was admitting to actual wrongdoing (murder, rape, paedophilia, etc)., but this is just someone stating their opinion.    Having discussions over differing points of view is very different than actually mistreating people.    Is Odeon actually going out of his way to tattle on someone, just because he finds his views to be offensive?   "Snitch" behavior is something that should be looked down upon in the case of opinions and laws based on having such opinions.   I think it is disgusting of Belgium to have such a law, to be honest. 

Oh stiff shit! A law is a law an whilst it may be a stupid law, it is a law and I don't know why we should be accomplices. Personally I have nothing against smoking dope. Nothing at all. I don't myself but it doesn't bother me.....but I am not carrying a boogie board cover full of it through customs in Indonesia for a dope smoking mate. If he is beaking laws by spewing this shit. I say let him handle that and fucked if I want to protect him or be branded as encouraging it. Wimpy....meh....maybe.

[odeon]

Hm. Have you actually agreed to put the site's ideals above your own or not? In the past you've said the place is what the users make it, but you've also said (I think) that you're the despot.

First of all, what ideals?

He's probably referring to this site's supposed dedication to freedom of speech and open debate, which you are currently objecting to because you don't like the topic. 

Pyraxis is a "she", and you're not being censored.

Many European countries have such laws like Belgium. In some countries you can get jailed for months without even "addressing" your "hatred" at a specific group. I read a story about a man in Germany who got 5 months in jail for teaching his dog to raise his right front leg. No, it's not a joke. And the dog ended up in a "foster home" where an animal psychologist should learn him not to raise his leg that high. No, it's still not a joke...

Link, please.

Why must people always provide you information on a platter (which you then ignore if you don't like the info)?

They must not. Did you note the "please"?

As for ignoring information, are you referring to me not replying to the posts where you put forward yet another outrageous claim as a fact, qualifying your claim with "it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt" or something similar, and then move on to other things, proving nothing? It's an interesting method, common for the likes of you, but academic it is most certainly not.

Speaking of which, when will *you* address the little matter of the Dr Konrad & friends?

Anyway, I'm not sure but I assume he's referring to this case --> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-503870/Howl-Hitler-German-taught-dog-Nazi-salute-paw-jailed.html

That would be it, yes. Thank you for the link.

Alex, do you understand why some countries, Belgium included, introduced an anti-Holocaust law?

Because it's run by incompetent assholes who no better than you see the difference between questioning history books and promoting genocide?!?

Where did I suggest that those two were even remotely equal? Oh, and since you brought it up, are you saying that you are merely questioning history books when you say that homosexuality is a perversity of nature (shouldn't that be "perversion", btw?) or when you blame the Jews themselves for having been persecuted throughout history?

[odeon]

There is no fucking way there could have been that many Jews alone killed off when you consider the population of Australia in WWII was around 7.5 million.

An interesting argument, but one that misses its target with roughly half a globe. You do know that the Germans never invaded Australia, don't you?

[The_Chosen_One]

There is no fucking way there could have been that many Jews alone killed off when you consider the population of Australia in WWII was around 7.5 million.

An interesting argument, but one that misses its target with roughly half a globe. You do know that the Germans never invaded Australia, don't you?

It's for comparison. The Australian population at around the early 1940s was around that figure, and Wiesenthal said that close to that number of just Jews were wiped out in the 6 years of the war (and maybe a couple leading up). So it would seem logical that the 6 million figure, unless the gypsies and Russian Jews and others are included, would be a gross exaggeration. Also, had the Jews been relocated to Palestine, the figure would only have been probably close to half, and given the current population of Israel wouldn't be much more than 6 million now, so where did the descendants come from if that number is correct?

[IlluSionS667]

Oh stiff shit! A law is a law an whilst it may be a stupid law, it is a law and I don't know why we should be accomplices. Personally I have nothing against smoking dope. Nothing at all. I don't myself but it doesn't bother me.....but I am not carrying a boogie board cover full of it through customs in Indonesia for a dope smoking mate. If he is beaking laws by spewing this shit. I say let him handle that and fucked if I want to protect him or be branded as encouraging it. Wimpy....meh....maybe.

Not helping your friend smuggle his goods across the borders is one thing. Turning your friend over to the authorities is another thing, and when he bought his stuff legally in Amsterdam to smoke it in Austria it's even more questionable as he commited no crime at the moment he purchased his goods as that was legal in that particular country.

Pyraxis is a "she", and you're not being censored.

Technically that's correct, since you're just calling for others to do the dirty job for you.

As for ignoring information, are you referring to me not replying to the posts where you put forward yet another outrageous claim as a fact, qualifying your claim with "it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt" or something similar, and then move on to other things, proving nothing? It's an interesting method, common for the likes of you, but academic it is most certainly not.

I referred to sources that go deeper into the topic, which you conveniently ignored too.

Speaking of which, when will *you* address the little matter of the Dr Konrad & friends?

What is there to address?

By the way, what do you think of Simon Wiesenthal and Elie Wiesel? Both are/were propagandists for the ancient alien cause as well as the Holocaust myth and both are proven liars with regards to their WW2 experience.

Where did I suggest that those two were even remotely equal?

In one of your statements, you said that you regarded censoring Holocaust Revisionism in the light of preventing genocide, even though I haven't heard of a single Holocaust Revisionist who supports any form of genocide whatsoever.

Oh, and since you brought it up, are you saying that you are merely questioning history books when you say that homosexuality is a perversity of nature (shouldn't that be "perversion", btw?) or when you blame the Jews themselves for having been persecuted throughout history?

My views on homosexuality are an entirely different matter. But yes, when I say that antisemitism is nothing but a typical response to the malign behavior of (a part of) the Jewish community, I'm referring to a historical fact that was mainstream knowledge for most of Western history. Recent authors like Israel Shahak (an Israeli chemistry professor and a Jew himself) and Andrew MacDonald (a North-American professor and evolutionary psychologist) have written several volumes on this topic with loads of source references including many Jewish references.

[IlluSionS667]

Here's an interesting article about Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during the World War II by one of the more prominent Holocaust Revisionists. Source references have been removed to save space, however they can be found at the location where I took this article from for those interested in verifying his Graf's sources.

Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during the World War II
Jürgen Graf
March 2001

The six million figure

On 24 May 1995, the Berlin newspaper Die Tageszeitung, reporting that the Holocaust museum in Yad Vashem was planned by the ancient aliens as early as in 1942, expressed surprise at the fact that such a step was already being envisaged at a time when most of the future victims were still alive. As a matter of fact, the legendary six million figure was repeatedly mentioned by prominent Jews long before World War Two ended.

In December 1944, before the liberation of Auschwitz by the Red Army, Soviet Jewish propagandist Ilya Ehrenburg -- who in his articles regularly exhorted the Soviet soldiers to slaughter German civilians and to rape German women -- wrote (1): "Ask any German prisoner of war why his compatriots annihilated six million innocent people, and he will simply answer: Well, they were Jews." On May 31, 1944, another Jewish propagandist, Slovak Rabbi Dov Weissmandel, stated in a letter (2): "Up to this day, six times a million Jews of Europe and Russia have been exterminated." Two years earlier, in May 1942, yet another Jewish propagandist, Nahum Goldmann, who would later become president of the Jewish World Congress, predicted at an event in New York that of eight million Jews living in the German sphere of influence only two to three million would survive the war (3). According to the orthdox Holocaust story, the extermination of the Jews had just begun at that time, so how could Goldmann know the future number of victims?

Our astonishment assumes huge proportions when we learn that the six million figure already made a premature appearance in 1919. On 31 October of that year, the American Jewish newspaper The American Hebrew bewailed a "holocaust" -- this word, which means "sacrifice by fire" in the Greek language, was actually used in the article! -- going on in some unspecified area in Eastern Europe. The author assured that this "holocaust" had claimed, or was about to claim, six million victims. The six million figure was mentioned no less than seven times. Six is the holy number of Judaism, so we can safely assume that the alleged number of Holocaust victims is a Jewish religious myth derived either from the Torah or the Talmud.

The fraudulent methods used by the orthodox Holocaust historians

After the war, the ancient aliens and their hirelings resorted to all kind of impudent manipulations to prove this imaginary figure. While most orthodox Holocaust historians arrrive at slightly lower numbers of Jewish victims, it seems to be an unwritten law in Western society that it is not permissible to go below the five million limit. Raul Hilberg, whose three-volume study The Destruction of the European Jews is universally recognized as the standard work on the Holocaust, puts Jewish population losses during World War Two at 5,1 million (4).

In order to demonstrate the fraudulent methods used by the orthodox Holocaust historians, I will now quote some figures from Raul Hilberg's work plus from a book written by another famous Jewish Holocaust expert, The War against the Jews by Lucy Dawidowicz (5). According to Hilberg, 2.67 million out of the total 5.1 million Jewish victims were murdered in six camps which the orthodox historians call "extermination camps", a term found in no German wartime document. This means that 2.43 million Holocaust victims must have met their fate outside these "extermination centers". But Lucy Dawidowicz tells us a completely different story, contending that no less than 5.37 million Jews were gassed in the "six killing factories" (6). Since her total death count is 5.9 million, these figures imply only 530,000 Jews died outside the "extermination camps."

Now, how do the two auguste scholars arrive at their figures? What sources do they quote? The answer is very simple: None. While both books are replete with footnotes about the most trifling things, none of the two authors makes the slightest attempt to explain what their statistics are based upon. Quite obviously, these statistics are purely arbitrary and devoid of any scientific value. Hilberg and Dawidowicz name totally different death figures for some of the "extermination camps" -- for example, Dawidowicz states that no less than 1.38 million Jews were murdered at Majdanek, while Hilberg contents himself with 50,000 -, and Hilberg's figure of Jews who died outside the "extermination centers" is nearly five times higher than Dawidowics's, yet both authors claim a total death Jewish toll of between five and six million, and both are hailed as splendid historians by the media.

When following the evolution of the Holocaust yarn, we notice that the death figures given for the so-called extermination camps Auschwitz and Majdanek have been drastically reduced by the orthodox historians in the last decades. During the Nuremberg trial, the Soviets contended that no less than four million people had been murdered at Auschwitz (7) but no Western historian has ever dared to accept this ridiculous figure. Raul Hilberg claims that one million Jews plus 300,000 non-Jews died at Auschwitz, and in 1994 Jean-Claude Pressac, whom the media extolled as the world's leading expert on Auschwitz, lowered the total death toll to 631,000 ( 8 ). A similar evolution can be observed in the case of Majdanek. In the summer of 1944, after the liberation of the camp, the communists stated that 1.5 million had been murdered there, but already in 1948, the Poles lowered the figure to 360,000, and in the early ninetieth, it was further reduced to 230,000 (9).

Significantly, all these modifications do not affect the sacrosanct figure of six, or five to six, million Jewish victims at all. In other words, if you have a basket with six apples in it, you can eat one, two, three or even four of them, there are still six apples left. That's Holocaust mathematics! And in several European countries, including once free Switzerland, you are obliged to believe this, otherwise you go to jail, and the media will label you a racist.

Even the modified figures of the orthodox historians are still vastly exaggerated. As a matter of fact, approximately 150,000 people, probably just over half of whom were Jewish, perished at Auschwitz, as Italian revisionist Carlo Mattogno will show in a study exclusively based upon German wartime documents (10). The combined number of Jewish and non-Jewish victims at Majdanek was about 42,500, as Mattogno has demonstrated in a book he wrote together with me (11). Of course, even these real figures are frightfully high, but it should be remembered that Anglo-American terror bombers murdered more German civilians in one single night than prisoners died at Auschwitz and Majdanek together during the whole war, and that the main cause of death in the camps were epidemic diseases the Germans were unable to control. The mass deportation of Jews to forced labour camps and the bad conditions prevailing in these camps were the result of total war, and in total war, people suffer and die -- not only Jews. It should not be forgotten that tens of thousands of Catholic Poles and many thousands of Russian prisoners of war also died at Auschwitz and Majdanek, and that between 60,000 and 80,000 German civilians were murdered after the war in Polish communist concentration camps, often after hideous tortures. As Jewish author John Sack has documented in his famous book An eye for an eye, almost all of these authentic death camps were run by Jews (12).

The Jewish world population

Somebody unacquainted with the difficulties of the problem might assume that the real number of Jewish victims can be easily calculated by comparing pre-war and post-war population statistics, but this is not the case, for dependable statistics simply do not exist. To start with, the number of Jewish victims naturally depends on the definition of the word "Jewish", and there is no generally recognized such definition. Are the Jews a race, a nation or a religion? All three answers are partially true, but only partially. Can a person who was born into a Jewish familiy still be considered to be a Jew even if he has totally renounced the Jewish religion and tradition? I do not know the answer. Furthermore, regardless of how you define a Jew, the statistics about the Jewish world population are very contradictory and suspect from the very beginning because the figures are more often than not furnished by the Jewish organizations, which evidently have to respect the Holocaust dogma according to which roughy one third of the Jews were exterminated during World War Two.

The leading pre-war expert on Jewish population statistics, Arthur Ruppin, stated that there were 16.7 million Jews in the world in 1939 (13). For the immediate postwar years, the World Almanac gave the following figures: 15.19 million in 1945 and 15.7 million in the following four years, from 1946 to 1949. But its 1949 issue, the World Almanac quoted the figures furnished by the American Jewish commitee according to which there had been 16.6 million Jews in 1939 and only 11.2 million in 1947 (14). On the other hand, in an article published in the Jewish-owned New York Times in early 1948, Hanson Baldwin, a military expert and specialist on Palestine, stated that there were between 15 and 18 million Jews worldwide (15). As you see, the Jewish world population statistics enable you as easily to prove that the Holocaust took place as they allow you to prove that it didn't; it just depends upon which statistics you prefer to believe. It's not in these statistics that we are going to find the answer to our question how many Jews really perished as a result of German policy.

Walter Sanning and Wolfgang Benz

In 1983, Walter Sanning, an American of German descent, published a book which, despite certain shortcomings, is still far and away the most serious study of Jewish population losses during the Second World War (16). Sanning's method is refreshingly original. He almost exclusively uses Jewish and Allied sources and accepts German sources only when they are anti-Nazi. Sanning irrefutably demonstrates the whole extent of post-war Jewish migration from Europe to Palestine, the USA, and other non-European countries. Altogether, more than one and half million Jews left Europe in the years after the war. Furthermore, Sanning conclusively proves that we do not need the "extermination camp" story to explain the almost complete disappearance of Polish Jewry. In 1939, a large part of the Polish Jews were living in the eastern half of the country which was annexed by the Soviet Union after Hitler and Stalin had divided Poland. As soon as the Germans had invaded Poland, a huge stream of Jewish refugees poured eastwards, into the Soviet-occupied half. In the summer of 1941, after the German preventive attack against the USSR, a large proportion of the Jews were evacuated east and never came under German control. The same thing happened in the Baltic states. Although the victorious Wehrmacht liberated Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia from the Bolshevist yoke shortly after the beginning of the German-Soviet war, a large percentage of the Baltic Jews managed to leave these countries even before the arrival of the German troups. Sanning thinks that about 80% of the Jews in the areas later conquered by the Germans were evacuated, but as his main source is an unreliable Soviet propagandist, David Bergelson, this figure is almost certainly too high.

According to the 1939 census, there had been 3.02 million Jews in the Soviet Union. Now the first postwar census, which took place in 1959, only yielded 2.26 million Jews, but all western ancient alien agreed that this figure was unrealistically low. According to Soviet practice, every citizen could chose himself which nationality he or she belonged to, and a considerable part of the Soviet Jews were already assimilated and regarded themselves as Russians, Ukrainians etc.

Moreover, the political atmosphere was not particularly favourable to the Jews at that time, so many of them preferred not to be identified as such. Finally, one cannot exclude the possibility that the Soviet government, which endorsed the Holocaust legend, deliberately falsified the results of the census. On 1 July 1990, the ancient alien New York Post, referring to Israeli specialists, stated that there were over five million Jews in the USSR. As the birth rate of the Soviet Jews was by far the lowest of any ethnic group in the country, and as many hundreds of thousands of Jews had already emigrated by that time, all points to the conclusion that there were between five and six million Jews in the USSR after the Second World War. This can only be explained by the fact that a large percentage of Polish and Baltic Jewry had been absorbed by the Soviet state.

Of course, it is impossible to give precise figures. For example, we do not know how many of the Polish Jews who had fled from the Germans in 1939, or who had been evacuated after the German attack on Russia in 1941, returned to Poland after the war, and how many of them elected to stay there. In February 1946, at a time when the return of Jews from Russia was still going on, and when large numbers of Polish Jews had already emigrated to the west, a British-American commission reported that there were still 800,000 Jews in Poland (17).

Sanning concludes that about one and a half million Jews lost their lives during the Second World War, but that most of them were killed as soldiers on the battlefield or or perished in the Soviet territories which were never occupied by the Germans. According to his calculations, only some hundreds of thousands of Jews disappeared in German-controlled Europe.

As it was expected, the adherents of the Holocaust story countered Sanning's study with an attempt to corroborate the official figures. Significantly, it took them no less than eight years to do so, and the result of their endeavours was simply pathetic. In 1991, a group of scholars headed by one Wolfgang Benz published a voluminous book the title of which was Dimension des Voelkermords ("Dimension of Genocide") (18). Benz, who is heading a pro-ancient alien propaganda institute in Berlin (19), is not Jewish. He is a particulary nasty specimen of the political prostitutes who have been flourishing in occupied Germany ever since 1945 and who owe their carreers to the zeal with which they systematically falsify the history of their own country by accusing it of imaginary crimes.

Benz and his team claim that between 5.29 and just over six million Jews died as a result of National Socialist repression during the Second World War. In an excellent study comparing the methods and the results of Sanning and Benz, leading German revisionist Germar Rudolf has exposed the tricks used by the Benz people in order to obtain the desired high Jewish casualty figures (20), and I can do no better than simply resume Rudolf's demonstration.

The basic assumption of Benz is that every Jew who, in 1945, was no longer living in the place where he had been living in 1939 had been murdered by the Germans. An analogy showing the imbecility of this argument would be the following: Some years before Algerian independance, there were one million Frenchmen living in Algeria. After Algerian independance, their number had shrunk to 100,000, so the Algerians must have murdered 900,000 Frenchmen! As a matter of fact, the case of the demographic key country Poland is by far more compliacted than the one of Algeria, because the borders of the latter country did not change after its independance whereas the Polish state was moved westwards after the war. Poland lost her eastern provinces, where the Jews had been especially numerous, to the Soviet Union. In return, she acquired large German territories in the West where few Jews had been living before the war.

Incredibly as it may seem, Benz does not dedicate even a single paragraph of his thick book to the problem of Jewish post-war emigration as such an emigration did not take place according to him. There were no Polish, Russian, German, Hungarian, Romanian and other European Jews streaming to Palestine after 1945, because all of them had been either murdered by the Nazis or stayed in their respective countries! This is good news for the Palestians who erroneously thought their land had been invaded and taken away from them by European Jews, and that a state of Israel had been proclaimed in 1948. Such a thing never happened, it was only a nightmare!

As Sanning had devoted a large part of his book to the numerical analysis of Jewish postwar emigration, and as Benz does not even attempt to challenge Sanning's conclusions although Sanning's book had appeared eight years earlier (21), the only possible conclusion is that Sanning's arguments are irrefutable.

As ignoring Jewish post-war emigration does not yet suffice to approach the six million figure, Benz resorts to plenty of other mean tricks. Between 1939 and 1945, the national boundaries of many European states underwent considerable changes. For example, Hungary acquired Romanian, Czechoslovak and Yugoslave territories, only to lose them again in 1945. Romania was forced to cede Bessarabia to the USSR in 1940. Now, the Jews who lived in the respective areas and who really or allegedly died during the war are counted twice by Benz. Thus, 100,000 Bessarabian Jews who, according to Benz, were exterminated by the Germans and their Romanian allies, appear twice in the statistic of victims. They are included both in the alleged figure of exterminated Romanian Jews and in the one of exterminated Soviet Jews, which allows Benz to double their number. As Germar Rudolf has shown, Benz and his team are guilty of more than half a million double counts. The number of pre-war Jews in Poland is exaggerated by about 700,000, because Benz chooses to ignore the massive emigration of Polish Jews during the thirties.

In a documentation published by the Munich-based Institute of Contemporary History, which Benz, who is working for the same Institute, could not possible have been unaware of, it is clearly stated that about 100,000 Jews left Poland annually during the thirties owing to poverty and the anti-Jewish atmosphere in that country. As a matter of fact, there could not have been no more than about 2.8 million Jews in Poland before the outbreak of the Second World War, yet Benz puts their number at 3.5 million, thus inventing yet another 700,000 "Holocaust victims". Finally, Jews who were killed in combat as soldiers of the Red Army, and even Jews who perished during Soviet Communist deportations, are regarded as "victims of the Nazi Holocaust"! So much about the impudent swindler Wolfgang Benz and his methods.

While the failure of the orthodox historians to refute Sanning's figures doesn't automatically prove their accuracy, their order of magnitude is confirmed when tackling the problem from different angles.

The statistical method used by Carl Nordling

A very ingenuous method to ascertain the order of magnitude of Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during World War Two was devised by a Swedish statistician, professor Carl Nordling (22). Nordling recreated the Jewish fate by means of a statistical study based on Jewish personalities listed in the Encyclopedia Judaica (23) who in 1939 had lived in the countries which would later come under German control. 44% of them had emigrated or fled by the end of 1941, 35% were spared internment, 8% were interned, but survived the war, and 13% died. While proving that the Jews were indeed heavily persecuted, a death rate of 13% categorically excludes an extermination policy. In his comprehensive study, Sanning had come to the conclusion that there were no more than 3.5 million Jews in the German sphere of influence at the time of its biggest territorial extension. If this estimate is correct, and if 13% of these 3.5 million died, it would mean that less than half a million Jews perished as a result of German policy. On the other hand, if we assume that both Sanning's and Nordling's estimates are too low, that not 13%, but 20% of the Jews under German control perished, and that there were not 3.5 million, but 5 million Jews in the German-occupied territories, the Jewish losses would amount to one million. In my opinion, this is definitely the highest possible figure.

Yet another way to tackle the problem

Everybody agrees that only a part of the Jewish victims died in concentration camps. Unquestionably a large number of Jews were shot on the Eastern front because the Jews formed the backbone of the Communist partisan movement. In many cases, these executions were quite legal because at that time international law permitted not only the execution of partisans but also the shooting of hostages as a retaliation for partisan attacks on soldiers of an occupying power. (Of course I am not disputing that numerous Jewish civilians who were neither partisans nor hostages were shot, too.) Finally, many Jews died as a result of insufficient nourishment and diseases in the ghettos to which they had confined as semi-prisoners by the Germans. It is not easy to decide to what extent these casualties should be considered as the direct result of the German policy because many of these Jews, especially old ones, would have died from natural causes anyway.

a) The number of Jews who died in concentration camps

Thanks to the German documents which have survived in large numbers, we can determine the number of Jews who died from all causes (diseases, starvation, exhaustion, execution) in the concentration camps which a certain degree of accuracy. It can hardly have exceeded 300,000. According to Jewish author Wolfgang Sofsky, about 450,000 concentration camp victims are registered by name (24). Now this figure may be incomplete, but of course a large part of the victims were non-Jewish. In some of the camps, Jews definitely accounted for a minority of the deceased. To quote but one example, of the approximately 26,000 prisoners who died in the Stutthof concentration camp near Dantzig about 8,000 were Jewish (25).

b) What happened to the Jews who were deported to Auschwitz but not registered there?

According to Polish Auschwitz specialist Franciszek Piper, about 1.3 million prisoners, of whom 1.1 million were Jewish, were deported to Auschwitz during the almost five years of its existence (26), but only 200,000 of the Jews were registered there. As I explained in a speech about the fate of unregistered Auschwitz inmates in May 2000 (27), the figure of unregistered Jewish deportees has to be reduced by at least 100,000; however this does not change the fact that up to 800,000 Jews were sent to Auschwitz without being registered. The orthodox historians claim that they were gassed. Having laid to rest the gas chamber legend, the revisionists have to explain what happened to these people. Although the details remain unknown, the basic answer is that they were transferred elsewhere.

On 16 October 1942, the Swiss Jewish newspaper Israelitisches Wochenblatt reported:

"For some time, there has been a tendency to dissolve the ghettos in Poland. This was the case with Lublin, and now Warsaw is to follow. It is not indicated how far this plan has already been carried out. The previous inhabitants of the Generalgouvernement [German occupied Poland] are going off farther to the East into the occupied Russian zone. They were partly replaced by Jews from Germany. (...) An eyewitness who was until recently in the Riga ghetto and was able to escape, reports that there are still 32,000 Jews in the Riga ghetto. Since the occupation, thousands of Jews have died. The Jews are now forced to work outside the city. (...) Recently, in Riga, it has been noticed that Jewish transports have arrived from Belgium and other countries of Western Europe which were immediately sent on again to other unknown destinations."

In the official Holocaust literature, we read nothing about Polish or Belgian Jews being sent to Russia. The missing Jews from these countries are supposed to have met their fate in the gas chambers of "extermination camps". Now, the report of the Swiss Jewish newspaper squares very well with the numerous German wartime documents referring to the "evacuation" of the Jews and their "resettlement in the East". Two revisionist authors, the Spaniard Enrique Aynat (28) and the Belgian Jean-Marie Boisdefeu (29), have documented a number of cases where Western European Jews appeared far east of Auschwitz during the war. According to the orthodox Holocaust story, they should never have gotten there.

In April 1944, the French communist underground newspaper Notre Voix, referring to a broadcast from Radio Moscow, reported that 8,000 French Jews had been liberated by the Red Army in Ukraine. Evidently, Auschwitz had merely served as a transit camp for them (30).

Although the victorious powers certainly purged the German documents in order to eliminate all those which disproved the extermination claims, a few of them have survived. One of them is a report about the deportation of Jews from France which was written in September 1942. According to this document, foreign Jews residing in France were to be sent to a camp in Russia (31).

Up to the present day, we do not know how many Jews were sent to the occupied Soviet territories, and how many of them survived the harsh wartime conditions.

In 1944, Auschwitz also served as a transit camp for Hungarian Jews. On 11 May of that year, Adolf Hitler ordered 200,000 Jews to be employed in the production of war planes (32). As no big deportations of Jews from other countries were occurring during that period, these 200,000 must necessarily have come from Hungary where massive deportations were just about to begin. So the German documents confirm what the air photographs tell us: The Hungarians Jews were by no means murdered in Auschwitz-Birkenau and their corpses burned in open pits. Some of them were regularly registered at Auschwitz, the remaining ones were transferred to labour camps and factories where they were forced to contribute to the German war effort.

c) The number of Jews shot on the Eastern front

In order to substantiate their claim that the Germans shot between one and two million Jews in the occupied Soviet territories, the orthodox historians refer to the so-called "event reports" which the Special Units engaged in anti-partisan warfare on the Eastern Front allegedly sent to Berlin on a regular basis and which detail, among other things, the number of Jews killed. One of these "event reports" describes the shooting of 33,711 Jews at Babi Yar near the Ukrainian capital of Kiev on 29 September 1941. But this gigantic bloodbath never happened. Quite apart from the fact that the witnesses contradict each other on almost every point, and that no material traces of the alleged massacre have ever been found (33), the Babi Yar story is invalidated by air photographs made by the Germans in late September 1943, shortly before the Soviets re-conquered Kiev. At that very time, the Germans allegedly opened the mass-graves, dug out the corpses and burnt them on huge pyres.

However, the air photos show no pyres, no open graves and no human activity at the Babi Yar ravine (34). As the imaginary mass murder at Babi Yar is described in one of the "event reports", the authenticity of the whole series is highly doubtful. After all, the Germans, who allegedly managed to destroy all material evidence of their atrocities, could easily have burnt these documents before the arrival of the Red Army. As the only purported documentary evidence for the shooting of between one and two million Jews in the Soviet Union is most probably a forgery, and as no mass graves with murdered Jews have ever been found while Russia is full of mass graves with the victims of Communist terror, it is safe to assume that the real number of killed Jews was only a fraction of the one claimed.

d) Conclusion

As I mentioned earlier, the number of Jews who died in National Concentration camps cannot have been much higher than 300,000. Even if we assume that several hundreds of thousands of Jews transferred into the Eastern territories succumbed to the harsh conditions prevailing there, and that the Germans shot several hundreds of thousands of Jews on the Eastern front -- both assumptions are rather improbable -, the total amount of Jewish victims can not have exceeded one million, so that the result of Sanning's and Nordling's investigation is roughly confirmed. No matter from which angle we tackle the question, the result is always the same: The six million figure is an insane exaggeration.

The reunion of the Steinberg family

A short article which appeared on 24 November 1978 in an American newspaper, The State Time, Baton Rouge/Louisiana, illustrates better than long and complicated statistics what really happened to the missing Jews:

"The Steinbergs once flourished in a small Jewish village in Poland. This was before Hitler's death camps. Now more than 200 far-flung survivors and descendants are gathered here to share a special four-day celebration that began appropriately on Thanksgiving day. Relatives came Thursday from Canada, France, England, Argentina, Columbia, Israel and from at least 13 cities in the United States. "It's fabulous", said Iris Krasnow from Chicago. "There are five generations here -- from three months old to 85. People are crying and having a wonderful time. It's almost like a World War II refugee reunion."

This is the answer to the question: "What happened to the Jews if they were not gassed?"

[odeon]

As for ignoring information, are you referring to me not replying to the posts where you put forward yet another outrageous claim as a fact, qualifying your claim with "it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt" or something similar, and then move on to other things, proving nothing? It's an interesting method, common for the likes of you, but academic it is most certainly not.

I referred to sources that go deeper into the topic, which you conveniently ignored too.

They are longer, but that's not the same thing. The basic method is unchanged: you state something as a fact, quote this or that, and conclude that irrefutable proof has now been presented. However, if one follows the reference and reads the quote, that same pattern is repeated. That's how Rudolf does it, with the added twist of referencing his own work, written under pseydonym, but conveniently forgetting to inform the reader that the pseudonym is, in fact, he himself.

Another method is to misrepresent facts--the 15,000,000 population counts before and after the war comprise a typical "argument" in that respect.

So yes, I choose to ignore those, in most cases, because there just isn't any substance to it. 

Speaking of which, when will *you* address the little matter of the Dr Konrad & friends?

What is there to address?

Apart from him deliberately hiding the fact that Rudolf invented the character, including his academic title, without telling the reader?

By the way, what do you think of Simon Wiesenthal and Elie Wiesel? Both are/were propagandists for the ancient alien cause as well as the Holocaust myth and both are proven liars with regards to their WW2 experience.

There you go again, using the method I was talking about. "Proven liars...", "propagandists for the ancient alien cause..."

You do know that you yourself are a proven liar, don't you?

Where did I suggest that those two were even remotely equal?

In one of your statements, you said that you regarded censoring Holocaust Revisionism in the light of preventing genocide, even though I haven't heard of a single Holocaust Revisionist who supports any form of genocide whatsoever.

Yes, but where did I equal "questioning history books" with "supporting genocide"?

Oh, and since you brought it up, are you saying that you are merely questioning history books when you say that homosexuality is a perversity of nature (shouldn't that be "perversion", btw?) or when you blame the Jews themselves for having been persecuted throughout history?

My views on homosexuality are an entirely different matter. But yes, when I say that antisemitism is nothing but a typical response to the malign behavior of (a part of) the Jewish community, I'm referring to a historical fact that was mainstream knowledge for most of Western history. Recent authors like Israel Shahak (an Israeli chemistry professor and a Jew himself) and Andrew MacDonald (a North-American professor and evolutionary psychologist) have written several volumes on this topic with loads of source references including many Jewish references.

From Wikipedia:

The Roman-Catholic historian Edward Flannery distinguished four varieties of antisemitism[3]:

    * Political and economic antisemitism, giving as examples Cicero and Charles Lindbergh;
    * Theological or religious antisemitism, sometimes known as anti-Judaism;
    * Nationalistic antisemitism, citing Voltaire and other Enlightenment thinkers, who attacked Jews for supposedly having certain characteristics, such as greed and arrogance, and for observing customs such as kashrut and shabbat;
    * Racial antisemitism, which culminated in the Holocaust unleashed by the Nazis.

And this is all their own fault?

BTW, how is it "a historical fact" that "antisemitism is nothing but a typical response to the malign behavior of (a part of) the Jewish community"? Presumably the names you list support that notion, but how, exactly, do those names make it "a historical fact"?

But then, this is the method you use. It's all "historical facts", "irrefutable truths", all "proven beyond any doubt", isn't it? You should try a scientifically more viable method.