Author Topic: Where did the US screw up?  (Read 6933 times)

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Offline Alex179

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #120 on: July 25, 2007, 12:44:32 PM »
Like when the warlords with guns steal the aid from the helpless villiagers as usual?
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Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #121 on: July 25, 2007, 01:03:27 PM »
Like when the warlords with guns steal the aid from the helpless villiagers as usual?
Well there is that, and there is the fact that all the aid will no doubt have to be spent of products from US companies sold at inflated prices as well.

Offline Alex179

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #122 on: July 25, 2007, 01:09:00 PM »
Like when the warlords with guns steal the aid from the helpless villiagers as usual?
Well there is that, and there is the fact that all the aid will no doubt have to be spent of products from US companies sold at inflated prices as well.

Then those products will be stolen by warlords with guns.
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Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #123 on: July 25, 2007, 02:32:07 PM »
Like when the warlords with guns steal the aid from the helpless villiagers as usual?
Well there is that, and there is the fact that all the aid will no doubt have to be spent of products from US companies sold at inflated prices as well.

Then those products will be stolen by warlords with guns.
Oh yeah, with guns that the americans and others will have shipped to them via the back door. Have you seen a film called Lord of War?

Offline Alex179

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #124 on: July 25, 2007, 02:57:30 PM »
Like when the warlords with guns steal the aid from the helpless villiagers as usual?
Well there is that, and there is the fact that all the aid will no doubt have to be spent of products from US companies sold at inflated prices as well.

Then those products will be stolen by warlords with guns.
Oh yeah, with guns that the americans and others will have shipped to them via the back door. Have you seen a film called Lord of War?

I know of it, but never watched it.   Most of the illegal arms dealers I know are Chinese or Russians selling AK-47s. 

The nations of Africa were never US colonies though.   I wonder who let those warlords get in charge in the first place?   Say hello to DeBeers for me.
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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #125 on: July 25, 2007, 04:13:52 PM »

I can't plus you this soon, but you GO!
Jimi Hendrix: When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. 

Ghandi: Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

The end result of life's daily pain and suffering, trials and failures, tears and laughter, readings and listenings is an accumulation of wisdom in its purest form.

Offline Christopher McCandless

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #126 on: July 25, 2007, 04:41:17 PM »
Like when the warlords with guns steal the aid from the helpless villiagers as usual?
Well there is that, and there is the fact that all the aid will no doubt have to be spent of products from US companies sold at inflated prices as well.

Then those products will be stolen by warlords with guns.
Oh yeah, with guns that the americans and others will have shipped to them via the back door. Have you seen a film called Lord of War?

I know of it, but never watched it.   Most of the illegal arms dealers I know are Chinese or Russians selling AK-47s. 

The nations of Africa were never US colonies though.   I wonder who let those warlords get in charge in the first place?   Say hello to DeBeers for me.
We did, we refuse to intervine millatilly, like in Zimbabwe because we were a former colonial power and would get accused of reinstating imprailism. Who do you think is behind the arm dealers, the US and Europe has a wonderful history of doing things like arming both sides in conflicts etc.  Oh and watch Lord of War, its a brilliant movie. It might be on torrent...

Offline Alex179

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #127 on: July 26, 2007, 08:50:46 AM »
So Britain wants the US to help clean up its messes, fucking weak excuse for reinstating imperialism?   Lets just let the US be world police and take the blame for us right?   Who put the Hussein family in charge of Iraq?   How about putting the Jews in Palestine?  Oh wait that was Britain, they gave Saddam the gas he used on his own people to boot.    France sponsored Israel's nuclear program and helped them develop the technology used in their plants.    The mess that is the former Mesopotamia is mostly to blame on those countries.   I am sure France has done a great job with Lebanon and Syria lol.

Yeah I will believe mainstream Hollywood when its films are made by people who are at least borderline intelligent and can make their own intellectual properties without having to rely on raping the content of books.    I doubt the script of Lord of War has much credibility, maybe I will watch it someday when I am caring about movies more.  It stars Nicholas Cage lol.   A private US citizen selling arms illlegally isn't hard to imagine at all.   The US government has been arming people for years of course.   Nothing like some other coutries though, but we get the loudest complaints.    Every time I see someone in Somalia or some other third world nation carrying a gun it is a AK-47, guess what the US government doesn't make or sell AK-47s.    Chinese and Russian black market arms dealers sure as hell do. 
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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #128 on: July 26, 2007, 08:55:39 AM »
America's war in Iraq has so far has been a failure.

Ideologically the war has been a mess, the great moral goal of bringing freedom to the Iraq people and by freedom flourishing there, would help to bring freedom to Syria and Iran. For example Christians in Iraq say they were safer under Saddam Hussein because he did not persecute them for being Christians, nowadays Muslims are attacking them on a constant basis.

In the long run the country is going to splinter with an independent Kurdistan, Sunni state in the middle and an Iranian client Shia state in the South. Instead of weakening the Iranian regime it is going to be strengthen by what they could not do during the Iran-Iraq war by having an client state in Iraq.

The Coalition forces should have allowed the Iraqi regular forces to help in keeping order in the country after Saddam was toppled, it would prevented a lot of the troubles of the last 4 years. The Coalition should have made it clear that Iraq become a country with a secular constitution which explicitly rejects even paying lip service to Sharia, defends the equality of all under the law (which includes freedom of religion).

Offline Alex179

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #129 on: July 26, 2007, 09:01:12 AM »
It has been stated many times as fact that the war in Iraq is a massive failure.   They will end up having to partition the nation into one area for Sunni, one for Shiite, and another maybe for Kurds.    Then those areas/nations will eventually war eachother a year or so after the US leaves anyways.   The reason why things were more stable under Saddam is that they feared him.   To get to those people you have to really scare the living shit out of them.   Gassing 100k Kurds with gas the Brits sold you did the trick.   That and letting your son kidnap and rape women, then put their husbands in iron maidens.   That gains respect and power in the Islamic world it seems.
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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #130 on: July 26, 2007, 08:48:01 PM »
The war with it's aim of overthrowing Saddam Hussein was a good thing, however the peace has been badly managed. Even dividing the country would be a good thing. However an Iranian client state in Shia region of Iraq, which could happen is not.

Offline Calandale

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #131 on: July 27, 2007, 04:35:15 AM »
Even dividing the country would be a good thing.

Talk about a way of driving Turkey away from
us. The only fucking Islamic democracy.

Yeah, that would rock.

Teejay

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #132 on: August 23, 2007, 10:47:08 PM »
It all looked so promising.  The US had mastered the atom and nuked Japan into submission.  The hard sciences were widely respected and scientists revered.  The old days of witch-burning seemed a thing of the past as the US embraced scientific endeavour as never before.

60 years on, we have this:

Welcome to Idiot America.

LET'S TAKE A TOUR, shall we? For the sake of time, we'll just cover the last year or so. A federally funded abstinence program suggests that HIV can be transmitted through tears. An Alabama legislator proposes a bill to ban all books by gay authors. The Texas House passes a bill banning suggestive cheerleading. And nobody laughs at any of it, or even points out that, in the latter case, having Texas ban suggestive cheerleading is like having Nebraska ban corn. James Dobson, a prominent conservative Christian spokesman, compares the Supreme Court to the Ku Klux Klan. Pat Robertson, another prominent conservative preacher, says that federal judges are a more serious threat to the country than is Al Qaeda and, apparently taking his text from the Book of Gambino, later sermonizes that the United States should get with it and snuff the democratically elected president of Venezuela.

The Congress of the United States intervenes to extend into a televised spectacle the prolonged death of a woman in Florida. The majority leader of the Senate, a physician, pronounces a diagnosis based on heavily edited videotape. The majority leader of the House of Representatives argues against cutting-edge research into the use of human stem cells by saying that "an embryo is a person. . . . We were all at one time embryos ourselves. So was Abraham. So was Muhammad. So was Jesus of Nazareth." Nobody laughs at him or points out that the same could be said of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or whoever invented the baby-back rib.

And, finally, in August, the cover of Time —for almost a century the dyspeptic voice of the American establishment—clears its throat, hems and haws and hacks like a headmaster gagging on his sherry, and asks, quite seriously: "Does God have a place in science class?"

Fights over evolution—and its faddish new camouflage, intelligent design, a pseudoscience that posits without proof or method that science is inadequate to explain existence and that supernatural causes must be considered—roil up school districts across the country. The president of the United States announces that he believes ID ought to be taught in the public schools on an equal footing with the theory of evolution. And in Dover, Pennsylvania, during one of these many controversies, a pastor named Ray Mummert delivers the line that both ends our tour and, in every real sense, sums it up:

"We've been attacked," he says, "by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture."

What happened?

Well the US is the most religious country in the western world, something like 40% attend church every week and same number believe that everything in the bible is true. It is a Christian version of Iran. That explains things like people wanting christian creationism taught in the schools, nationwide movement to introduce abstinence only sex education in schools, one town in Louisiana banning low rider pants, furor over one singer accidentally flashing her tits live on TV. It also explains adjusting even for Blacks and Hispanics US birth rates are higher than other western country. Those religious folk have like 3 or 4 children*.

On top of that the USA has had a better experience of the 20th century, especially WW1 and WW2 than Europe did, it won both of them with relatively little cost and became much more powerful because of them. Americans are much more nationalistic than Europeans. A lot of Americans for example want the US to withdraw from the UN, seeing as a prop for America's enemies.

Interestingly enough the US political class are much more secular than the voting public, institutions like the supreme court have been overriding the wants of the religious folk and led to a lot of resentment of the courts, imposing unpopular decisions like banning creationism being taught in the schools or legalizing same sex marriage.

* I think in nations like UK, Australia and New Zealand it is also true regular church going folks have more childern, but they make up 5-10% of the population, we in those country might be seeing our futures when religious folks via their high birth rates get to around 30-40% of the population.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 10:49:30 PM by Teejay »

Offline Eclair

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #133 on: August 24, 2007, 03:29:09 AM »
Vomit.

Offline Calandale

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Re: Where did the US screw up?
« Reply #134 on: August 24, 2007, 04:49:38 AM »
Vomit.
:plus:

I don't know why,
but that was too much to
deal with in my state.