Author Topic: Another US shooting..  (Read 13220 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #525 on: February 16, 2018, 05:21:42 PM »
Honestly, I can't be arsed to comment on this, but *cough* stricter gun laws *cough*.
That's why Obama wa elected.

Offline Arya Quinn

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #526 on: February 16, 2018, 07:13:03 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again; I think that any kind of change in the gun laws is impossible (that is in terms of making access stricter).

Offline mdagli1

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #527 on: February 17, 2018, 01:46:31 AM »

Murderers are heroes. Whether you kill vegetables for food or butcher kiddies during a deranged state of mind, it doesn't really matter. You survived, they didn't and in the end, that is all that matters.


The greed for life will ultimately be your undoing. So step up to the plate, because only you can save yourself from fucking each other.

Offline renaeden

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #528 on: February 17, 2018, 04:37:26 AM »
I knew it wouldn't take long. I have read a few comments on Facebook where they're speculating whether or not the murderer is on the spectrum.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #529 on: February 17, 2018, 04:08:46 PM »
This thread should probably be stickied.
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Offline Jack

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #530 on: February 17, 2018, 04:10:30 PM »
Probably.

Offline Genesis

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #531 on: February 17, 2018, 10:47:56 PM »
This thread should probably be stickied.

?????

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #532 on: February 17, 2018, 10:53:57 PM »
Quote
"To every politician who is taking donations from the NRA, shame on you," she said, drawing an impassioned cheer from the crowd.

"They say tougher guns laws do not decrease gun violence. We call BS. They say a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun. We call BS. They say guns are just tools like knives and are as dangerous as cars. We call BS. They say no laws could have prevented the hundreds of senseless tragedies that have occurred. We call BS. That us kids don't know what we're talking about, that we're too young to understand how the government works. We call BS."

https://honey.nine.com.au/2018/02/18/11/24/emma-gonzalez-florida-shooting-speech
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline odeon

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #533 on: February 18, 2018, 03:28:52 AM »
This thread should probably be stickied.

?????

There's going to be another, and then another, and another, and...

Might as well make sure that the thread stays on top.
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #534 on: February 18, 2018, 05:01:30 AM »
No need, given how common these are.  :lol1:

Offline Lestat

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #535 on: February 18, 2018, 08:47:58 AM »
Tougher gun laws DON'T stop gun violence.

Living in the UK, where access to firearms is far more limited by law, it doesn't stop the shootings of innocent people.  Certain places are a fucking source for jokes and area-based put-downs of some of the shittier places regionally local here. They call nottingham 'shottingham', manchester 'gunchester' for example. And salford is rife with gangbanger-comitted shootings, both executions and punishment shootings, kneecappings etc.

The criminal underworld doesn't give a flying fuck about the law to begin with, and as such have no qualms  possessing illegal firearms  and using them when the underworld shit hits the fan. (more than) enough killings of that sort.  Yet how often do you hear about say, a farmer who owns a shotgun killing somebody? I can think of only the tony martin case, where he got arrested and originally convicted of murder, after being repeatedly burgled (and surprise surprise, from the sound of it the pork didn't do much to help HIM), and then from the sound of it, he finally had enough when two thugs broke into his house, and he shot both, hitting one non-fatally, and one badly enough he died at the scene.)

Bloody clusterfuck of a case, with the surviving burglar attempting to sue for compensation.

Personally I think if people go breaking and entering and meet the business end of a baseball bat, get themselves capped or stabbed by a homeowner defending their property or bodily safety then they have only themselves to blame. And christ, your a dumb cunt if you go breaking into a farmer's place, where there are quite probably vicious dogs and someone pretty likely to have a shotgun.

He'd obviously not kept it prepared with the intent to kill an intruder, since he was using a birdshot loadout, rather than buckshot or solid slugs, flechettes etc. and IMO the fuckers got what they deserved. Technically this specific farmer legally hadn't the right to pack a shotgun, and the model (higher capacity magazine pump action) was illegal here. But still, plenty farmers do have one legally, and the situation could have happened to any one of them)

And IMO the higher mag capacity illegal shotgun doesn't really make any difference to the right or wrong of things. He could still have killed them both with a double-barreled shotgun without having to reload.

But you don't hear of farmers with guns just as capable of killing people as an illegal handgun going on the rampage and slaughtering people. Only ever prosecutions for defending their own property where an intruder is shot. Thats a lot different of a motivation to a gangland shooter, or a jihadist. The vast majority of people don't WANT to engage in that kind of activity. Most people are decent people, at least in as far as not going on murder sprees goes, and decent people don't DO that kind of thing, precisely because they ARE decent human beings.

So I don't see the point of gun control here as it is. It leaves those who abide by the law defenseless against attack by those who do not. The crooks don't seem to have a problem getting hold of handguns. Plenty mass-produced eastern european firearms and converted blank-firers around.

Put it this way, if you make firearms criminal, then only the criminals will have firearms. The crims don't give a damn about misusing them to begin with, whereas the vast majority of gun owners have no desire to shoot people.

And you can't stop the odd out-of-the-blue psycho, the kind of nutball that just flips a switch, tools up with whatever is available and goes on a killing spree. Take the guns away, and it still happens. You get a knife-armed spree killer in a school and there is always going to be sufficient time for them to inflict significant casualties.

IMO if there is more of  a chance of otherwise law-abiding or at least nonviolent people packing then that should serve as a factor to discourage random gun violence such as robberies and gangland killings. Such  people are likely to think twice before taking on a target who is able to return fire.

I don't see it lessening the likelihood of fanatic type attackers initiating an attack, not if the attacker is warped by ideology and prepared (or fully intending to) die for their beliefs. But at least there would be the possibility that somewhere in say, a targeted building will be armed and able to take out a few koran-bashers, or in the case of a lone-wolf type attack, put a stop to it entirely before a marksman/SWAT team can get to the scene.
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #536 on: February 18, 2018, 01:10:42 PM »
I think family atomics are the best solution.

Offline Lestat

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #537 on: February 18, 2018, 01:56:54 PM »
lol. Most people wouldn't even be able to maintain a nuke. Pits need replacing, and boosted nukes would be expensive to maintain, since tritium has such a short half-life.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #538 on: February 18, 2018, 03:14:50 PM »
Tougher gun laws DON'T stop gun violence.

Living in the UK, where access to firearms is far more limited by law, it doesn't stop the shootings of innocent people.

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Offline Lestat

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Re: Another US shooting..
« Reply #539 on: February 18, 2018, 04:27:39 PM »
Are those figures compensated for firearm availability in countries other than the US?

My point is that good people are the majority of people and good people don't commit murders, short of crimes of passion as a rule. Mentally stable, decent people (and there of course is a strong argument for only allowing firearm availability for those who can prove themselves not to be a fruitcake, or are known not to be of bad character in general)

And the psychos, those determined to cause  havoc in some way or another are going to do it whether there are guns available or not. They didn't need  guns for example in the bali nightclub terrorist attack,  they used  backpack and a car bomb based on aluminized potassium chlorate and sulfur (they got lucky, that is a dangerous mixture, chlorates and sulfur are well known as being chemicals that ought not to be mixed, as the sulfur is liable to have a residual acid content and this reacts with the chlorate to form chlorine dioxide, ClO2, a powerful oxidizing agent, and the result is a potential explosion. Of course the terrorists wanted one, but they wouldn't have wanted one to happen other than when directed at their target)

Of course there will be less firearm-related killings in places where access is nonexistent, and comparatively more in countries with equal access to firearms and comparatively denser populations.

Over here the corridors of power shit themselves over firearms in an overzealous way IMO. Its one thing to get a shotgun cert (albeit limited to lower magazine sizes, two in the mag one in the chamber for pump action shotguns, or at most, triple-barreled non magazine-fed shotguns.)

They are so overzealous that until not so long ago, even the olympic pistol target shooting team had to practice overseas (in switzerland IIRC) because of the bans on firearms.

Now, I'm not arguing for people to be able to just walk in to a store and walk out with a .50 cal browning autocannon or minigun, but its not unreasonable to be able to legally apply for a firearms certificate (although here, it exists, but the chances of actually being granted one are nonexistent, firearms certificates are treated differently to those for owning shotguns)

And IMO, if the deaths are counted for home defense situations, those ought not to be counted, because chances are, the bugger deserved it. Any intruder to someone's home IMO should be assumed to  take on their own head any subsequent consequences. If a would-be robber, kidnapper, child molester etc. ends up getting torn apart by a family's pet rottweilers or having their head blown off by a homeowner with a gun then so much the better.

It isn't as if your average homeowner NEEDS the likes of a fully automatic, or a barrett  light .50, but a pistol for self defense in the home isn't unreasonable IMO. And as for the argument of children getting to it, that much is simple-keep it in a locked box that can be quickly opened, or in the case of a shotgun or rifle/carbine etc. keep the ammunition locked up. The same argument goes for those laundry liquid capsules. Kids are tempted by them and can get themselves killed by putting them in their mouths. Answer? keep them where the kids cannot get to them. Access problem solved.
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