2

Author Topic: The other trump card in the gun debate.  (Read 138 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 5858
  • Karma: -8
  • Allahu Akbar!!!
The other trump card in the gun debate.
« on: January 08, 2018, 12:55:09 PM »
The  first one being, the one that 4 Ace Deal ignored in the previous debate. If you ban or restrict guns in one area, they will just be illegally imported from another. Ban guns in the US and they will just flood across the border from Mexico...  just like Mexicans.

Chicago brought in tough controls.  But the Republican states around it didn't.  So people get guns from the nearby uncontrolled states and they end up in Chicago.

See?  That's how logic works. Cause and effect.

You've actually stumbled upon a good argument without realizing it.

Let's take your logic to the next level.

Let's say the US passes strict gun control nationwide.

We have a border to the south that you Limeys don't have where we couldn't stop 12 million+ Mexicans from coming into our country. That's not to mention the millions of tons of illegal drugs that come across our southern border too. While were at it, we have millions of tons of drugs coming into the US from China. Yeah, we can't stop that either.

So how do you propose to stop guns from entering the US illegally, I'm gladly waiting for your answer.   ;)

He never replied, nor has anyone else on the other side of the argument.



Now here's the second trump card, "Ghost guns". Guns that are made with home made receivers that have no serial numbers that can't be traced or controlled by the government.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ghost-guns-shooting-rancho-tehama-california/

Machinists like me can now make a small fortune by making receivers for sale out of my garage on a benchtop milling machine.

If I plop down the money for a sheet metal press, I can make high capacity magazines in my garage too.   8)
WTF???

Offline Minister of silly walks

  • Frequent Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
  • Karma: 28
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2018, 09:51:27 PM »
In other words, if the United States were to implement sensible gun control, they would face the exact same problems that every other country with gun control faces.

F*ck! I never thought of that!!!

Offline Calandale

  • Official sheep shagger of the aspie underclass
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 39500
  • Karma: -169
  • Gender: Male
  • peep
    • The Game Box: Live!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2018, 09:55:16 PM »
GPUAR has a point with the easy production though - and it's just going to get easier.


It's also not likely to stop with the kinds of guns which are easily available. Digital contraband
shan't be easy to fully prevent. If something isn't resolved about the base human nature,
shit's gonna hit the fan pretty hard.

Offline Minister of silly walks

  • Frequent Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
  • Karma: 28
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2018, 10:08:30 PM »
GPUAR has a point with the easy production though - and it's just going to get easier.


It's also not likely to stop with the kinds of guns which are easily available. Digital contraband
shan't be easy to fully prevent. If something isn't resolved about the base human nature,
shit's gonna hit the fan pretty hard.

Exactly the same problems that every other country with sensible gun control will face.

In Australia we already have a situation where a determined person who wants to get their hands on a gun usually can. Most criminal gangs, for example, already have decent stockpiles of illegally obtained and unregistered firearms. This doesn't negate the benefits of gun control.

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 5858
  • Karma: -8
  • Allahu Akbar!!!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 10:27:33 PM »
In other words, if the United States were to implement sensible gun control, they would face the exact same problems that every other country with gun control faces.

F*ck! I never thought of that!!!

Uuum no.

In Australia, you're like, you know, on a fucking island and shit. It's a LOT easier to control your borders than it is in the US.

Also, your criminal gangs aren't nearly as large as ours nor do you have a significant black population.

Furthermore, you have neither an entrenched gun culture, nor a large firearms industry like the US has.
WTF???

Offline Calandale

  • Official sheep shagger of the aspie underclass
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 39500
  • Karma: -169
  • Gender: Male
  • peep
    • The Game Box: Live!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 11:16:31 PM »
GPUAR has a point with the easy production though - and it's just going to get easier.


It's also not likely to stop with the kinds of guns which are easily available. Digital contraband
shan't be easy to fully prevent. If something isn't resolved about the base human nature,
shit's gonna hit the fan pretty hard.

Exactly the same problems that every other country with sensible gun control will face.

In Australia we already have a situation where a determined person who wants to get their hands on a gun usually can. Most criminal gangs, for example, already have decent stockpiles of illegally obtained and unregistered firearms. This doesn't negate the benefits of gun control.


Will is different from has however. We have no idea what's going to happen when high quality homemades start becoming easy to put together.


Gun control's benefits have not been tested in that environment yet.

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Teh Stupid
  • *****
  • Posts: 96958
  • Karma: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 03:34:51 AM »
In other words, if the United States were to implement sensible gun control, they would face the exact same problems that every other country with gun control faces.

F*ck! I never thought of that!!!

You know, the US is speshul.
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 5858
  • Karma: -8
  • Allahu Akbar!!!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 08:15:30 AM »
^ but still not as bad as Malmö.  :LOL:
WTF???

Offline Jack

  • Reiterative Utterance of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Insane Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 12337
  • Karma: 0
  • You don't know Jack.
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 11:14:44 PM »
you're like, you know, on a fucking island and shit.
:laugh:

Offline Minister of silly walks

  • Frequent Poster
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
  • Karma: 28
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 01:40:21 AM »
Plenty of countries with land borders have sensible gun control.

In Australia you can already buy guns illegally. Criminal gangs have guns, but they tend to use them to settle scores rather than against the non-gang population. You can also make all sorts of offensive weapons already, but this is not a widespread practice because it's illegal and shit and you can get into a lot of trouble for making or having bombs and other homemade weapons.

The argument that new technologies will result in an explosion in the number of unregistered guns being made is similar to fears a few years back that the availability of high quality colour printers would result in uncontrollable widespread counterfeiting operations. How did that turn out? People who print fake money are traceable and are punished. People who illegally make guns at home... ditto.

Gun culture and a large (and influential) gun manufacturing industry... certainly unique to the United States, at least among first world countries. You guys want to keep your guns and keep shooting each other, that's fine by me. Just don't expect me to agree that it's a great idea.

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Teh Stupid
  • *****
  • Posts: 96958
  • Karma: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 02:32:30 AM »
^ but still not as bad as Malmö.  :LOL:

I should plus you for spelling the name correctly.

OTOH, your point is kind of vague. Care to elaborate?
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 5858
  • Karma: -8
  • Allahu Akbar!!!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 12:23:11 PM »
Plenty of countries with land borders have sensible gun control.

..and it's just as ineffective there, just look at France.

Quote
In Australia you can already buy guns illegally. Criminal gangs have guns, but they tend to use them to settle scores rather than against the non-gang population.

Dittos in the US, most of the murders are gang related. Almost 50% of firearm homicides are black men killing other black men.

 
Quote
You can also make all sorts of offensive weapons already, but this is not a widespread practice because it's illegal and shit and you can get into a lot of trouble for making or having bombs and other homemade weapons.

Again, this is the same as the US.

Quote
The argument that new technologies will result in an explosion in the number of unregistered guns being made is similar to fears a few years back that the availability of high quality colour printers would result in uncontrollable widespread counterfeiting operations. How did that turn out? People who print fake money are traceable and are punished. People who illegally make guns at home... ditto.

This is a piss poor comparison. In the case of counterfeit money, the criminal is giving it out to non-criminals where it is quickly discovered and some good police work can trace it back to its source. With guns, either the criminals keep them or they sell them to people they think they can trust. Since the distribution is so tight, it's difficult to trace where they came from since only one or two guns will be discovered at a time.

Quote
Gun culture and a large (and influential) gun manufacturing industry... certainly unique to the United States, at least among first world countries. You guys want to keep your guns and keep shooting each other, that's fine by me. Just don't expect me to agree that it's a great idea.

The overwhelming majority of legal gun owners don't shoot each other, the majority of shootings are criminals shooting other criminals.
WTF???

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 5858
  • Karma: -8
  • Allahu Akbar!!!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 12:27:37 PM »
^ but still not as bad as Malmö.  :LOL:

I should plus you for spelling the name correctly.

OTOH, your point is kind of vague. Care to elaborate?

A vague point to respond in kind to your vague comment.
WTF???

Offline odeon

  • Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
  • Webmaster
  • Postwhore Beyond Teh Stupid
  • *****
  • Posts: 96958
  • Karma: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • Replacement Despot
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 01:07:32 PM »
Malmö, for all its flaws, is nothing like the US.
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

  • Elder
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 5858
  • Karma: -8
  • Allahu Akbar!!!
Re: The other trump card in the gun debate.
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2018, 02:41:57 PM »
From Wikipedia:

"According to a report published by academic researchers in 2017, shooting incidents with fatal outcomes are about 4 to 5 times as common in Sweden compared to neighbouring countries such as Germany and Norway when taking population size into account. The city with the highest prevalence of shootings was Malmö. The grave violence in the studied period also changed character, from criminal motorcycle gangs to city suburbs.[45][46] Sweden also stands out in having a low resolution rate (25%) for gun homicides compared to Germany and Finland at 90%."
WTF???