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Author Topic: The Progressive ideology exposed  (Read 776 times)

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Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2017, 06:23:24 PM »
But, if you read my last sentence again, you'd see that I'm not talking full reparations, or anything like them.
I'm suggesting that we ought to stop our currently oppressive policies which keep the poor that way.
That's what the guy in the video says too. Establishing equality, rather than trying to correct history. Or maybe you've been agreeing with the video guy and I missed that. :dunno:
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Offline Minister of silly walks

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2017, 07:22:06 PM »
Milo Y is a troll, and I would never deny that he is very good at it. The purpose behind most of what he says is to get under people’s skin and gain notoriety, and through his notoriety he is able to make a substantial income. Good for him, he has a right to free speech and he uses that right to his own benefit. He is seen by some as a champion of the alt-right, but the reality is that they hate him as much as the progressive left hate him. Like most trolls, he is best ignored, unless you find his trolling entertaining (which I don't).

Dinesh D doesn’t, from what I’ve seen, seem worth the effort. Those videos are from his YouTube channel and he appears to see them as great examples of him pwning the progressives who oppose his points of view. As I said, I flicked through the video and watched two exchanges. In one he avoided addressing a student’s valid points about privilege by steering well away from what the student was saying and going to an apparently pre-canned ad hominem attack on the student, attempting to label him a hypocrite for not giving up his spot as a student to a less privileged person. An ad hominem attack is, of course, a logical fallacy. In the second exchange he employed a different logical fallacy, which could be variously described as a false dichotomy, an “all or nothing” logical fallacy, or a false dilemma, regarding the recognition of land rights for indigenous peoples. Recognizing one group’s rights to a piece of land does not require unravelling every single change of ownership that took place everywhere in the world, ever. Regarding Al’s question on how much it would cost to compensate Native Americans (or any other indigenous people) for the wrongs done to them and for the land stolen from them… the amount would, of course, be astronomical, and such a level of compensation would be impractical to implement. BUT if you can reach an agreement with a group of indigenous people that rights some of the wrongs of the past, an agreement that both parties are happy with, how is this precluded by the impossibility of righting every wrong ever?

I admire Al’s patience in wading through the output from people like Milo Y and Dinesh D for the gems of well supported and logically sound wisdom that they must serve up occasionally. I don’t have the patience for that, if people are presenting bollocks to me and claiming it as some pyrrhic victory over the progressives, then I’m going to move on and try to find someone to listen to who can do a little better. 

Offline odeon

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2017, 02:24:03 AM »
Milo the paedo apologist? No, I wouldn't characterise him as smart.

He is a very smart guy. He is not a paedo apologist either.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/milo-yiannopoulos-resigns-from-breitbart-following-paedophile-comments-a7592416.html

Not very bright, if you ask me.

Oh I saw, saw the context, knew the hows and why.

If it's taken out of context and he is actually not a paedo apologist, by some miracle, then he is not very bright because he is feeding his opposition with enough ammo to have him removed, which a smarter person would know to avoid.

I'll go with MOSW's assertion that he is a troll.
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline Minister of silly walks

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2017, 03:00:28 AM »
What is not in dispute by anyone, including Milo, is Milo being an apologist for sexual relationships between adults and minors.


Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2017, 06:01:37 AM »
Milo Y is a troll, and I would never deny that he is very good at it. The purpose behind most of what he says is to get under people’s skin and gain notoriety, and through his notoriety he is able to make a substantial income. Good for him, he has a right to free speech and he uses that right to his own benefit. He is seen by some as a champion of the alt-right, but the reality is that they hate him as much as the progressive left hate him. Like most trolls, he is best ignored, unless you find his trolling entertaining (which I don't).

Dinesh D doesn’t, from what I’ve seen, seem worth the effort. Those videos are from his YouTube channel and he appears to see them as great examples of him pwning the progressives who oppose his points of view. As I said, I flicked through the video and watched two exchanges. In one he avoided addressing a student’s valid points about privilege by steering well away from what the student was saying and going to an apparently pre-canned ad hominem attack on the student, attempting to label him a hypocrite for not giving up his spot as a student to a less privileged person. An ad hominem attack is, of course, a logical fallacy. In the second exchange he employed a different logical fallacy, which could be variously described as a false dichotomy, an “all or nothing” logical fallacy, or a false dilemma, regarding the recognition of land rights for indigenous peoples. Recognizing one group’s rights to a piece of land does not require unravelling every single change of ownership that took place everywhere in the world, ever. Regarding Al’s question on how much it would cost to compensate Native Americans (or any other indigenous people) for the wrongs done to them and for the land stolen from them… the amount would, of course, be astronomical, and such a level of compensation would be impractical to implement. BUT if you can reach an agreement with a group of indigenous people that rights some of the wrongs of the past, an agreement that both parties are happy with, how is this precluded by the impossibility of righting every wrong ever?

I admire Al’s patience in wading through the output from people like Milo Y and Dinesh D for the gems of well supported and logically sound wisdom that they must serve up occasionally. I don’t have the patience for that, if people are presenting bollocks to me and claiming it as some pyrrhic victory over the progressives, then I’m going to move on and try to find someone to listen to who can do a little better.

I dunno. I don't see life as that simple. Black hats and white hats. Goodies and Baddies. Right and Wrong. It would be easier but not as interesting.
I am opinionated but I often hear things that I respect, for all I disagree with them.
Life is complicated and no one has the perfect answers to everything. Not even me. Some people can be contradictory and hypocritical and stupid and  many other things and occasionally make great points. Some people are the opposite very smart most of the time BUT sometimes say the most stupid, mindly, wrong-headed, hypocritical and /or ontradictory things.
I sure as Hell do.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2017, 06:07:47 AM »
Milo the paedo apologist? No, I wouldn't characterise him as smart.

He is a very smart guy. He is not a paedo apologist either.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/milo-yiannopoulos-resigns-from-breitbart-following-paedophile-comments-a7592416.html

Not very bright, if you ask me.

Oh I saw, saw the context, knew the hows and why.

If it's taken out of context and he is actually not a paedo apologist, by some miracle, then he is not very bright because he is feeding his opposition with enough ammo to have him removed, which a smarter person would know to avoid.

I'll go with MOSW's assertion that he is a troll.

Quite simply there are two things to take into context. Milo was abused as a teenager and did not want to define himself as a victim and went to great lengths to distance himself. When he talked of himself and his abuse he downplayed and mocked himself. The second thing is he spoke openly about "young boys" and older men. No one questioned how old these "young boys" were or the older men and they jumped to the assumption that he was talking about paedophilia AND out of context it sounds like it.



I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Minister of silly walks

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2017, 07:36:53 AM »
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/milo-yiannopolous-pedophilia-transcript-pederasty-video-full-sex-boys-men-catholic-priest-cpac-quotes/

Here is the actual transcript.

He is actually advocating relationships between adult men and post-pubescent boys in their early teens.

Technically it is pederasty rather than  pedophilia that Milo is advocating.

I guess he was trying to be controversial, as usual, and for once his instincts (for not straying too far outside the boundaries of acceptability) failed him

Offline Calandale

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2017, 09:35:28 AM »
Hebephilia would be the appropriate match to pedophilia.

Offline odeon

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2017, 04:04:52 PM »
Milo the paedo apologist? No, I wouldn't characterise him as smart.

He is a very smart guy. He is not a paedo apologist either.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/milo-yiannopoulos-resigns-from-breitbart-following-paedophile-comments-a7592416.html

Not very bright, if you ask me.

Oh I saw, saw the context, knew the hows and why.

If it's taken out of context and he is actually not a paedo apologist, by some miracle, then he is not very bright because he is feeding his opposition with enough ammo to have him removed, which a smarter person would know to avoid.

I'll go with MOSW's assertion that he is a troll.

Quite simply there are two things to take into context. Milo was abused as a teenager and did not want to define himself as a victim and went to great lengths to distance himself. When he talked of himself and his abuse he downplayed and mocked himself. The second thing is he spoke openly about "young boys" and older men. No one questioned how old these "young boys" were or the older men and they jumped to the assumption that he was talking about paedophilia AND out of context it sounds like it.



Why is it important to you to excuse this particular creep? There is little doubt over what he advocates.
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2017, 06:26:51 PM »
Milo the paedo apologist? No, I wouldn't characterise him as smart.

He is a very smart guy. He is not a paedo apologist either.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/milo-yiannopoulos-resigns-from-breitbart-following-paedophile-comments-a7592416.html

Not very bright, if you ask me.

Oh I saw, saw the context, knew the hows and why.

If it's taken out of context and he is actually not a paedo apologist, by some miracle, then he is not very bright because he is feeding his opposition with enough ammo to have him removed, which a smarter person would know to avoid.

I'll go with MOSW's assertion that he is a troll.

Quite simply there are two things to take into context. Milo was abused as a teenager and did not want to define himself as a victim and went to great lengths to distance himself. When he talked of himself and his abuse he downplayed and mocked himself. The second thing is he spoke openly about "young boys" and older men. No one questioned how old these "young boys" were or the older men and they jumped to the assumption that he was talking about paedophilia AND out of context it sounds like it.



Why is it important to you to excuse this particular creep? There is little doubt over what he advocates.

No doubt to you. I can not say the same. I think the creeps of the world need no defence. Harvey Weinsteins of the world needs whatever is coming to them. See there is a real difference between saying something stupid one time for whatever reason, and talking that out of all context, exaggerating and reaching the worst conclusions you can, using that to basis for presenting you worldview and every motive of that person, then denounce every defence they make, apology, put pressure on them to suffer financially and such.

There is a difference between these two positions and even more than that, him having been a victim himself of pedophilia and yes he has been a champion against pedophiles (you guys remember when his exposee about Sarah Nyberg came out....no it was not politically advantageous for the narrative, but I do).

Yet one time he says something questionable and suddenly he is something he is not. It does not matter how many times previously he had denounced pedophiles. It does not matter how he had exposed them. It does not matter that nothing he has done is suggestive of him acting on or being attracted to children nor associating with those that do (the opposite is true).

Yet everything is "clear" to you? NO! It isn't.

The weight of all the above is enough to give any thinking person pause and if not dismiss one instance of saying something as like he said a mixture of tiredness, talking about himself and not wanting to sound like a victim and using young boy in the way that gays do to men young man. 

Me? I think people can say some really dumb shit and I have nothing to pin the perceptioon on outside of this one incident. If he keeps saying stuff like this OR we see real creepy behaviour or we have something other than this one thing come up then I think the weight of a gotcha moment is lost on me.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2018, 02:15:06 PM »
I give you a rather devastating criticism of Mr D'Souza's debating style:

Derp derp derp derp derpity derp. ...


... Derp derp derp derpity derp.

Rational Wiki is a rabid, Left wing ideologue site. There isn't a single lick of objectivity there and all they do is smear pieces on people they don't like.
WTF???

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2018, 06:57:40 PM »
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/milo-yiannopolous-pedophilia-transcript-pederasty-video-full-sex-boys-men-catholic-priest-cpac-quotes/

Here is the actual transcript.

He is actually advocating relationships between adult men and post-pubescent boys in their early teens.

Technically it is pederasty rather than  pedophilia that Milo is advocating.

I guess he was trying to be controversial, as usual, and for once his instincts (for not straying too far outside the boundaries of acceptability) failed him

Milo is always pushing boundaries, when you do that you will cross lines from time to time.
WTF???

Offline odeon

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 02:56:46 AM »
Yet one time he says something questionable and suddenly he is something he is not. It does not matter how many times previously he had denounced pedophiles. It does not matter how he had exposed them. It does not matter that nothing he has done is suggestive of him acting on or being attracted to children nor associating with those that do (the opposite is true).

Nothing? He talked in his sleep? He misspoke? A slip of the tongue?

Yeah, right.
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline odeon

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 02:58:24 AM »
I give you a rather devastating criticism of Mr D'Souza's debating style:

Derp derp derp derp derpity derp. ...


... Derp derp derp derpity derp.

Rational Wiki is a rabid, Left wing ideologue site. There isn't a single lick of objectivity there and all they do is smear pieces on people they don't like.

OTOH, D'Souza is a rabid conservative without a single lick of objectivity. You just happen to approve of what he says.
To me it looks like you're saying that banning bombs didn't stop bombs going off therefore there is no point to gun control because it's a mental health issue. 

Offline El

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Re: The Progressive ideology exposed
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 06:52:08 AM »
Yet one time he says something questionable and suddenly he is something he is not. It does not matter how many times previously he had denounced pedophiles. It does not matter how he had exposed them. It does not matter that nothing he has done is suggestive of him acting on or being attracted to children nor associating with those that do (the opposite is true).

Nothing? He talked in his sleep? He misspoke? A slip of the tongue?

Yeah, right.
So, this is a tangent that will probably now piss everyone off in this thread, but I honestly remember at the time reading the *descriptions* of what he said vs the *transcript* of what he said and did feel like he got shredded because what he said sounded worse out of context than it did in context.

That said, on a re-read, I'm landing somewhere in the middle.  It sounds like he's correct in distinguishing what pedophilia definitionally is vs isn't in terms of perpetrator psychology, but isn't correct in thinking about brain vs. body development when thinking about consent and power differentials in teens vs adults, which is extremely problematic.  And it sounds like he did clarify that he wasn't just talking about may-december relationships (which are gross imo, but if they're between adults, whatevs), but was talking about teens whose bodies are developed but whose brains aren't.

Now, to be super-sure I'm pissing everyone off here, I'll add this:  This is a good example of where culture and education play a role in social sexual mores, not just "intuitive morality."  If you really don't understand (or believe) that the body can be developed as visually "sexually mature" long before the brain is developed enough to really give consent (particularly to an adult, where there's an incredible power differential), what does that do to how you think about adolescent sexuality, and what you deem as OK?
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.