Trump

[benjimanbreeg]

Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.

I know.  There are only two ways.  Break the taboo surrounding "The Holocaust".  Or for people to know the Israeli role in 9/11.

That last bit is just tinfoil stuff.  As for the "taboo", what, exactly, are you referring to? The legislation in some countries?

Na.  There's FBI files and TV footage.  Tinfoil stuff was the crap you were pushing about Russia hacking the election and Trump being a Russian puppet.

That and not allowing revisionism and the mainstream media and Hollywood still pushing lies and debunked propaganda.  Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts.

You're not making much sense. There's plenty of evidence of Russia hacking the election. Hollywood pushing lies is essentially true--it's what they do, it's sort of the idea behind fiction.

And why, exactly, do you oppose naming the mass murdering of Jews the Holocaust? Do you doubt it happened? Do you think what happened doesn't matter?

There's FBI files and video footage about the Israelis arrested on 9/11.  There is?  Where's that then?  Ugh no, not when they're making films about real events or alleged ones. 

Because there's no need for it.  It's a spit in the face to anyone else or other group that has suffered.  See, you're capitalising it, there's the indoctrination right there.  You need to read "The Holocaust Industry".  There's a lot of exaggerations and propaganda surrounding it and it us used to silence people, to promote war and to stop people criticising Israel.  It matters, it's just not unique.  What happened in Japan was a holocaust by definition.  The genocide of the Native Americans.  Over 2 million killed in Vietnam.  1.5 million in Korea.  Over a million in Iraq through the sanctions and the wars. 

[benjimanbreeg]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

The Ukrainian genocide had a name as well: the Holodomor

The Chechen genocide in the 1940s is called the Aardakh

The Romani (gypsy) genocide is known as the Porajmos

Having names for specific genocides is not unique to the Holocaust. But maybe what makes the Holocaust fairly unique is that the race which was targeted is highly influential in both economic and cultural terms.

Yeah, and how many films have we seen about them?  How many museums in the US about them is there?  How many school kids are exposed to liars about those events.

There's nothing unique at all about that.

[Al Swearegen]

Trump as Putin's puppet? I am fine with the whole, we don't know what we do not know and even everything has not come out yet. Sure. But THAT does not make any case for Trump being Putin's puppet. IF ANYONE makes that claim they really need to put SOMETHING on the table to support it.

All I see at the moment is Dems hiring Fusion GPS to hire Christopher Steele to make a fake dossier and collaborate with Russians.

That and Donald Trump Junior talked to a Russian lawyer about Adoption and took no action AND that Russian lawyer seems to be tied to Fusion GPS too.

There is some evidence but it is in the other direction. Even the Democrats have pivoted away from Collusion with Russia and to Obstruction of Justice because they realise that there is no political capital in the narrative.

So do ANY of you making these insinuations have ANYTHING? Any evidence at all? Anything tangible?

I am willing to concede ANYTHING could come up and I have NO doubt there will be surprises in store in one way or another but I am not going to say something ridiculous like Hillary is going to jail or Obama will be put away without something pretty big to substantiate it. What have YOU got big to substantiate the Trump is a Putin puppet claim?

[benjimanbreeg]

Their TV's told them.

[odeon]

Not what my TV told me. I must own a different brand.

[FourAceDeal]

Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

[Al Swearegen]

Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Back pedalling from what exactly?

[Icequeen]

Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least. 

[benjimanbreeg]

Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least. 

Yeah, back peddling from what?  If there's proof of "Russian hacking" i'l admit I was wrong.  That's all it takes.  It's you who needs to get their excuses ready. 

What happened in reality is, someone hacked the DNC server, probably from the inside and leaked Clinton's emails.  Proving what a monster she is.  But instead of getting angry at the monster, the press had trained people to get angry on whoever told on her.  And just blamed the Russians with no evidence.

It's like blaming the person who caught a murdering rapist rather than blaming the murdering rapist.

[Icequeen]

[odeon]

Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least. 

And fun, and a little scary.

[Al Swearegen]

Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least. 

Yeah, back peddling from what?  If there's proof of "Russian hacking" i'l admit I was wrong.  That's all it takes.  It's you who needs to get their excuses ready. 

What happened in reality is, someone hacked the DNC server, probably from the inside and leaked Clinton's emails.  Proving what a monster she is.  But instead of getting angry at the monster, the press had trained people to get angry on whoever told on her.  And just blamed the Russians with no evidence.

It's like blaming the person who caught a murdering rapist rather than blaming the murdering rapist.

THIS!

I do think it is a little more nuanced. I think that the Russias attempted to hack voting machines and could not get past security. I think they and many other countries were hacking into databases of DNC, Government agencies and so forth. Not too many years ago there was a major breach from China. This shit happens constantly.

HOWEVER some people ALSO internally breached and leaked emails from servers. Many people say it was murdered ex-staffer Seth Rich. I think it was equally as possibly it was Imran Awan or possibly someone else entirely.

So politically biased and motivated intelligence communities and DNC funded IT company realising the breach and way this looked on the face of things when Wikileaks dropped DNC bomb after bomb, concocted a narrative that was easy to swallow and had enough unprovables and enough truth and would be backed by the establishment and the media.

Did Russia meddle in the elections? No question. How? Many ways and as they always have. Did they leak DNC emails to Wikileaks? No. Did the Trump administration collude with Russia to win the election? No.

Did Hillary administration team collude with Russia to win the election? Yes. Did the establishment and Intelligent Agencies falsely and collusively meddle to win the election? Yes.

Was this a case of practically everyone on both sides of the political divide AND the Media AND the Intelligence agencies AND the Russians trying to screw Trump out of any chance he had to win the election because the ends justified the means and they thought him an uncontrollable, unpredictable buffoon and madman not worth of the station of President and so unfit that all things previously out of bounds, were now in play? YES!

The same thing happened with Weapons of Mass Destruction. The ends justified the means. They hated Saddam Hussein and they needed an excuse and they needed him gone and they were willing to forgo truth and fact for convenience to a narrative that would suit their purposes and dressed it up to justify their decisions. It is all political, all preservation of a narrative at all costs.

[FourAceDeal]

On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.

[Al Swearegen]

On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.

It is absolutely still out HOWEVER there ARE facts we know and these pretty much all are either unknowable and unable to be found out to prove either way OR reflect REALLY badly on people called names other than Trump.

I could run through a number of things that support some terrible things about the things I talked about in respect to the DNC, Intelligence Agency and Media. All that has come about from their efforts is slowly leaking out and makes a Hell of a case against them but not so much on the initial charges against Trump.

It MAY be that Trump has been politically criminal more that the charges (that also may or not be true) of him being stupid, incompetent, and inept, BUT there is simply no evidence.

Oh that 26 agency thing was bullshit, you know that right?Firstly it was not 26 agencies  (in fact the suggested number was 17), they walked this number back to three https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/pageoneplus/corrections-june-29-2017.html. Those three were actually simply down to three individuals. Clapper, Brennan and Comey

Now we know that Comey was unpopular at FBI and there was a division in the FBI which was exacerbated with the recusal of Hillary with the Peter Strzok rewording.

We know that Clapper lied when under oath in Copngress before

"Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper whether the NSA collected "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans” — to which Clapper said "No, sir ... not wittingly.”"

That was a lie.



Brennan had nothing concrete.

None of these guys are paramours of virtue and they were politically motivated and they do NOT represent all 17 agencies.

[Icequeen]

Rumor mill is saying (not verified) that Jared may be next in line after the holidays.

Stock up on popcorn.