Author Topic: I really can't believe you all bought it!  (Read 4668 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #120 on: November 17, 2017, 04:33:46 AM »
Walkie just to be on the level with you, I do not think you are a terrible person or inherently bad. I DO think (and again you will see evidence of this) I think that you chose for whatever reason of yours to say some pretty fucking poor things mainly about Rockhound and me and they were dishonest. I think you chose to be dishonest and I think it was shit you made those choices. It was beneath you.

I think you got all of that.

But I do not think you are the sum of that interaction and I have seen enough in the past of you using logic and critical thinking around areas of dispute to be fair and balanced. I like fair. Not a fan of nice but I am a fan of fair. I do not even have to agree with a position as long as it is fair.

Believe me, I have no compunction in calling you out if I think that you are being dishonest but I do not think you are inherently dishonest or bad or unfair or whatever.

About July-August 2016 I was maybe not grieving Odeon's ill will BUT felt the "WTF??" of it too.

In truth, what I think is going on here is pretty close to what you see. I think Odeon is crestfallen and emotional. He does not feel that he has the control of the narrative and he is on edge looking for a way to remove me and thus the egg on his face. These are emotional decisions. But I will go further. I think that you are right in what you say about Odeon and I bringing the worst in each other. In many crucial ways Odeon and I are alike. I many critical ways we are different. Unfortunately, it is the crucial similarities which make our interactions toxic. Scrap cited Rockhound as describing for example that Odeon is a member of the "Last word in Getters Club". I am a long term member. We are both Grumpy old men. Neither of us like to be told what to say or do, and so on and so forth.

The thing that you probably realise as well as I, is that there HAS to be either an investment in moving past this or getting rid of one of us. Now I have been very clear that as long as Odeon keeps up the snark and insults, I will throw it back in his face BUT I have ALSO said, I will keep the war of words in this thread AND that when he tires of being a slimy impotent, toxic little slug, in this thread that there is no need for it to continue anywhere else.

I do not mind warring with him. It is no imposition. I prefer that to having to adapt and censor myself and consider how things I say could be misconstrued as not direct and blunt but perhaps rude and perhaps an insult and suddenly we are off to the races and it could be seen as my fault...

So the other alternative is Odeon gets rid of me and in all honesty I think you see what I see. Odeon is weighing up his options and trying to strengthen his narrative by methods foul or fair (being completely honest, this is what I saw you doing with Rockhound not so long back and I said the same then. Trying to justify bad ends to justify the means).

I could make it easy and throw a tantrum like DFG did and that would justify him. He is trying to pretend AFF and I2 situations are comparable to pre-emptively ban. Same with painting me as a bully. Never once is that flashlight shown back in his own face. He projects his real shortcomings on others.

What he ought to do in my view is simply be an adult. A Rational man. Not a victim or a saint or a morally virtuous defender of all things Al, but a guy who is equally as at fault for the two ways arguments as he has been part of. By engaging and seeking out and escalating conflict as much as his detractors he has contributed to things not being as good as they would otherwise be.
I have limited the bad blood and insulting and whatever to the one thread. What would happen if he stopped replying to it? Wouldn't THAT get interesting? Would THAT not be a better challenge for both of us? Would that not help the forum?

I have the feeling that Odeon, psychologically, cannot do this.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #121 on: November 17, 2017, 02:32:14 PM »
It's more than enough for me to see your behaviour here and compare it to what I've been told about your behaviour at AFF. It's what you are, Al, a bully. A pathetic little excuse of a man-child.

Now fuck off.

It is one of your sillier opinions but kudos for your consistency of narrative. That is something new the slug may be in the process of metamorphise. Doubtful but I have optimism

I didn't actually expect you to agree with me. Bullies tend to be like that.
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Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #122 on: November 17, 2017, 02:45:41 PM »

It was quite clear what you were implying, Walkie, but claiming that nobody is taking what I said seriously is just not true. If you think you can read people's minds, then read mine.

I wasn't  reading minds, Odeon. I was  just judging  by what people have openly said  on this forum. The only person I can see who openly supports your narrative is hiding behind a new account, and not telling us who the heck he was on AFF.  Without a lot more info than that, I'm not willing to take his opinion seriously, especially not given that  it's defamatory.

I've agreed with you that Al's behaviour here is a form of bullying, and I do  I stand by what I said.  That said, I  regret making so strong a point of it when I did.  I regret that  because I didn't know that this bloody great can of worms was about to be re-opened did I? For my own part, I want Al to think twice about that behaviour. I don't want to beat him about the head with a great big stick until he feels totally justified in resuming said behaviour.  Especially not if that entails dredging up some really unsound and unjust asccusatons concerning what went on years ago on another board and citing a bunch of anonymous witnesses.

You're acting as if you've made up your mind to ban Al, and you're desperate to justify that action to yourself.  Might be wrong; you might be thoroughly dishonest , like some people say, but to my mind , I'm looking at a man acting under extreme pressure . And yeah, Al is  surely instumental in piling on the  pressure. There are no angels here. The relationship beween you and Al has turned toxic and is bring out the worst in you both.  Something needs to be done about that,  for everybody's sake.

Well, there's your justification, if you need one: something needs to be done. I've already said that I'd rather let Pyraxis take control ; if therte's a better way forward, she's more likely to find it isn't she? because it isn't personal to her. You turned down that suggestion.  Well, OK, you're the boss, but Al being banned by Odeon is still the worst-case-scenario for this board, IMO... short of whole board falling apart.

  Unlike some, I don't believe  you're actually lying, Odeon.  (except to yourse;f, maybe) . And  I bloody well wish that people would stop crying "Liar" at each other, because it's worse-than- pointless talking things over if nobody is willing to take it on trust that others are  doing their best to communicate honestly.  Aspies generally do try to communicate honestly (we're notorious for being excessively honest , FFS) ... except insofar as that might entail  spilling the beans on some deeply personal shit, ofc.

 Ofc, neither you nor Al is gonna spill, not in the middle of a fight  on the spazznet's most notorious forum, with your detractors taking detailed notes on all you say, to use in evidence against you.  That's just natural self-preservation.  Can't blame you in the least.  However,  I don't see it being resolved any other way than by getting under the skin.  I think  we've got  all sorts of personal shit that has nothing to do with this forum coming into this. In an ideal world, you'd both backl off, go into analysis, IRL, and come back with a more detached perspective.   But yeah, I know, I know,  that's not gonna happen either; that's just my own pleasant little daydream

Quote
Oh, and by posting the last few messages, you just lost what little respect I had for you and your opinions.

Well, i'm evidently not currying favour here, am I? I've been open enough about my POV to risk pissing everybody off. That said, I'm not m,ade of stone. It actually  does grieve me to lose your respect. It also grieved me to openly agree with Scap and Co, at this juncture.    Not so long back, Al was having a go at me , in his usual dogged fashion.  You backed me up. More than that, your responses were genuinely outraged and  flaming angry,  so it seemed to me.  I was  (and remain)  grateful for that.  I haven't forgotten, nor shall I, but I just don't do that "blind loyalty" thing, especially not when I do actually  sympathise with both sides.

I've said it before, but i'll say again: you and Al are both being inflammatory in your different fashions, both goading each other beyond endurance.  I don't want to be cheering for Team Odeon  and more than I want to be cheering fo Team Al,  because I really  do believe that only makes matters worse.

I'm bloody sad about the whole damned mess, truth to tell, but I don't believe that scapegoating solves it.

[EDIT. I actually wrote this yesteday, but didnt post it - called away from PC.  I now note that IQ also finds the "Al destroyed AFF" theory credible. But that doesn't alter my opinions]

Walkie,

If you're wondering why I'm pissed off at you then you should probably reread your last few posts directed at me. They all came off as condescending and belittling, and regardless of what you think about all this, honestly, is that how you address someone who thinks what all this amounts to is bullying?

If yes, then we have nothing whatsoever to say to each other.

If doubtful, then please have another think before hitting Post again.

My main reason for thinking that Al was instrumental in AFF's demise is all about watching his behaviour here and comparing it to multiple accounts of what he was like there. Unless you've run a forum for some years (no, simple participation does not count here) and know exactly what that is like, there is no way you will know, no way you CAN know. And curiously, it's also why Al can't know.

In other words, the fact that several people have independently suggested it to me is not why.
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Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #123 on: November 17, 2017, 02:48:01 PM »
We are both Grumpy old men. Neither of us like to be told what to say or do, and so on and so forth.

This is so very true. +
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Offline Pyraxis

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #124 on: November 17, 2017, 07:56:39 PM »
Can psychological speculation be condescending? Absolutely. But it's also a huge part of Walkie's personality and how she tries to connect with people. With the caveat that I can't speak for her, I doubt she means it in a condescending way. When she's condescending, it's much more likely to be barbed humor.  >:D
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Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #125 on: November 17, 2017, 09:44:46 PM »
Nice going, Walkie. Now they're both mad at you.  :zoinks:
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Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #126 on: November 18, 2017, 05:07:11 AM »
Can psychological speculation be condescending? Absolutely. But it's also a huge part of Walkie's personality and how she tries to connect with people. With the caveat that I can't speak for her, I doubt she means it in a condescending way. When she's condescending, it's much more likely to be barbed humor.  >:D
Actually, Pk, I reckon you know me better than almost anyone by now, and I would pretty much trust you to speak on my behalf (just so long as you accept that I might have fun with the occasional caveat  >:D).   And , in short : thanks :)

As for "barbed humour", weeelll, do you know I condescend towards myself in the exact same fashion? Walkie can be a real dumbass sometimes, and somebody has to take her down a peg  or two, and make her see the funny side.   And you know what they say:  "If you want a job done properly, you just have do it yourself" . So really, we're all in the same boat with my condescending side, if that's what it is.   :LOL:
 
I'm in the process of composing a reply to Odeon, ATM. Taking my time, cos I'm letting my critical faculties and all my other faculties let  rip on it.   So... it will probably come out as another stupid mess won't it? Ho hum.  I am presently trying not to try too hard.  Might even suceed, knowing me (I'm nothing if not stubborn, as you know)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 05:16:56 AM by Walkie »

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #127 on: November 18, 2017, 05:10:52 AM »
Nice going, Walkie. Now they're both mad at you.  :zoinks:

 :lol1:

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Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #128 on: November 18, 2017, 10:29:37 AM »
Walkie just to be on the level with you, I do not think you are a terrible person or inherently bad. I DO think (and again you will see evidence of this) I think that you chose for whatever reason of yours to say some pretty fucking poor things mainly about Rockhound and me and they were dishonest. I think you chose to be dishonest and I think it was shit you made those choices. It was beneath you.
Al, I've plussed you for most of the content of this post, as I hope you noticed, But if you must keep harking back to that  thing with Ozy, I will add that if a man says I am "worse than Tombo" - then "paranoid" is the kindest complexion I can put on that . You have no idea what an insult that is, because you weren't on same forum at same time.  Maybe Ozy can fill you in? And if - as it happened-  the next thing that turns up is his astonishing rant about Elle on this board, then that impression is confirmed, in my mind.  Now, Ozy and I are(or rather were, I should say)  very old friends, and I like to think that  we can both get past all that.  No need to dwell on it, ad nauseam, or rub each others faces in it.   Well, maybe that's an empty wish on my side, but endlessly dredging it back up calling me "dishonest" on that count is both unfair and extremely unhelpful, IMO.  It's like picking at scabs. And it's not even your scab . What do you imagine my honest POV was? No, don't answer that. That's a rhetorical question. I really don't want to know. My POV is pretty flexible actually, and I'll be happy to dismiss the whole thing as a "flash in the pan" ...if allowed to do so.

[ PS  @ozy. by "getting past it" I simply mean that I should hope  that a modicum of trust and goodwill can be restored. not that I imagine us becoming firm friends again, just decent neighbours. I'm not asking for the earth ]
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 12:25:36 PM by Walkie »

Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #129 on: November 18, 2017, 03:50:06 PM »
Yeah, I know.  I didn't buy them all, but I got a Dr. Who and Daleks tshirt today.  I can only imagine what a fat 68 year old woman looks like wearing it.  Thank goodness I don't have any mirrors that show below my neck.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #130 on: November 18, 2017, 06:43:05 PM »
Walkie just to be on the level with you, I do not think you are a terrible person or inherently bad. I DO think (and again you will see evidence of this) I think that you chose for whatever reason of yours to say some pretty fucking poor things mainly about Rockhound and me and they were dishonest. I think you chose to be dishonest and I think it was shit you made those choices. It was beneath you.
Al, I've plussed you for most of the content of this post, as I hope you noticed, But if you must keep harking back to that  thing with Ozy, I will add that if a man says I am "worse than Tombo" - then "paranoid" is the kindest complexion I can put on that . You have no idea what an insult that is, because you weren't on same forum at same time.  Maybe Ozy can fill you in? And if - as it happened-  the next thing that turns up is his astonishing rant about Elle on this board, then that impression is confirmed, in my mind.  Now, Ozy and I are(or rather were, I should say)  very old friends, and I like to think that  we can both get past all that.  No need to dwell on it, ad nauseam, or rub each others faces in it.   Well, maybe that's an empty wish on my side, but endlessly dredging it back up calling me "dishonest" on that count is both unfair and extremely unhelpful, IMO.  It's like picking at scabs. And it's not even your scab . What do you imagine my honest POV was? No, don't answer that. That's a rhetorical question. I really don't want to know. My POV is pretty flexible actually, and I'll be happy to dismiss the whole thing as a "flash in the pan" ...if allowed to do so.

[ PS  @ozy. by "getting past it" I simply mean that I should hope  that a modicum of trust and goodwill can be restored. not that I imagine us becoming firm friends again, just decent neighbours. I'm not asking for the earth ]

Actually, my point in doing so is rather different than what perhaps you expect. It was rather to say I am not anti-Walkie. Not at all. Let's be real too, I accused you of dishonesty against both Rockhound AND Me. But my point was not that you are an inherently horrible person or that you are officially unpersoned or anything so dramatic. It is simply that I thought some of your choices were bad not that YOU were very bad. Also that I WILL support you when I think you are saying good things and condemn you when I think you are saying bad things. I do not have a particular issue with you.

I do not agree with everything you say and but generally what I see from you seems fair, reasoned, and rational. I like these things regardless whether I agree with your conclusions. When I see you seemingly veer drastically from these things I do not have any problem in saying so.

It was not trying to relight old drama but I can be a touch unsubtle and a little blunt and direct........occasionally.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #131 on: November 18, 2017, 07:13:13 PM »
Just a few clarifications:

I did send Odeon a PM regarding the uncanny similarities between what occurred at AFF vs what seems to be occurring at I^2. I am certain that I am not Odeon's only source.

Seeing as I^2 was used as a platform to launch the backlash against Amy and Gareth, no doubt they are loving the irony of seeing that very same presence that the resistance rallied behind now at the heart of the potential destruction of I^2. The support for Amy and Gareth during that time was considerable and it mainly centred around facebook and the AFF chat rooms.

I have seen Odeon being "cast" into the role of Amy. I don't know if this is some kind of bizarre, anal-retentive revenge fantasy, or if there is some other warped explanation. I do know that Odeon will need to be careful to avoid the same outcome. Amy tried to cut out a cancer from AFF and, in doing so, she unfortunately killed the patient. Lack of transparency and apparent lack of due process led to an impression that Amy was being unfair.

I know that there are a minimum of rules here at I^2. But it needs to be remembered that the forum does not serve the rules, the rules need to serve the forum. If Odeon needs to change the rules to take into account that there are personalities and behaviours that the original rules could not foresee, and which are destroying I^2 as a productive and enjoyable platform, then that may need to be on the table. Transparency and due process are important, a sudden perma-ban and a refusal to discuss other options may produce a negative backlash (as was the case with AFF). A series of warnings followed by a series of suspensions of increasing length and plenty of room for a troublesome member to mend their ways may be a better approach.

The reality is that a place like I^2 isn't going to change the world. But it once did provide an enjoyable and fun escape for a large number of members. I don't now about the rest of the residual membership, but being stalked around the forum, insulted and attacked at every opportunity, confronted by angry and hostile walls of text every day, is not fun for most people. Except for one member who lives for that shit, and has been doing it for many years.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #132 on: November 18, 2017, 08:12:43 PM »
Let's break down this bullshit narrative from our Prodigal son:

Just a few clarifications:

Except "clarification" is perhaps not the best word to use. Maybe "spin" will serve better.

I did send Odeon a PM regarding the uncanny similarities between what occurred at AFF vs what seems to be occurring at I^2. I am certain that I am not Odeon's only source.

Who knows? Again, what I say is backed up and easily done so and is very transparent. As far as I know not much of what you say is backed up and not at all transparent. We do not even know if you were a member on there? There was no Minister of Silly Walks as far as I know? For all I know you are simply a person with a gripe against me?

Seeing as I^2 was used as a platform to launch the backlash against Amy and Gareth, no doubt they are loving the irony of seeing that very same presence that the resistance rallied behind now at the heart of the potential destruction of I^2. The support for Amy and Gareth during that time was considerable and it mainly centred around facebook and the AFF chat rooms.

Except it wasn't and you will not find evidence to display this. Evidence is easily found if you look. I looked for evidence to back my side of things and found it easily enough. You will not be able to do the same.

Again the fact that you do not know these crucial things tends to shed your side of things in very poor light.

In the first purge whereby Amy barged in and tried shaking things up and pissed off most of the forum. Max the Bear organised people in changing avatars and doing short boycotts and such. I did not, I went straight at Amy. I was not a party to it. How much of THAT was recorded or organised through I2? (There was condemnation after the fact and you will see that on here but that was not the claim you made is it?)

I will give you a hint. NONE.

Next, a number of years later after having been allowed back on as Bloke. Amy came back in and started picking on people and pushing people around and again I went at her and was banned. A number of people objected to her treatment and she closed the forum. Again there was no organising of this and it happened rather quickly. Amy banned a couple of people (I remember Bardwolf. She was acting a little strange but not nastily) and acting like a petty tyrant. But she made some really bullshit claims against me supposedly organising protests some years before, which was bullshit and I had a go at her about her lies (I did not organise a damn thing and did not take part in anything either).

So it went quickly from Amy being a sow banning a few of us and at  that point I made a snarky thread on here that got no attention until El President made a thread on AFF asking to bring me back and apparently it was very well received by fellow AFF members but not so Amy and she banned them. Again, no organisation there.

Perhaps though you could back up these lies. I am more than happy to eat humble pie if you proof any of these organisation efforts on I2. If you can't, I hope you will be adult enough to admit you are simply dishonest and stirring shit. That sounds fair doesn't it?

Deal?

I have seen Odeon being "cast" into the role of Amy. I don't know if this is some kind of bizarre, anal-retentive revenge fantasy, or if there is some other warped explanation. I do know that Odeon will need to be careful to avoid the same outcome. Amy tried to cut out a cancer from AFF and, in doing so, she unfortunately killed the patient. Lack of transparency and apparent lack of due process led to an impression that Amy was being unfair.

Amy was being unfair.

There was no cancer in the forum there was a robust membership who self-policed after she and Gareth left them to their own resources and without the ability to ban people. The membership was equally as supportive as it was activist and I was quite proud to be amoung its number.

Banning "the cancer" does not cause 40-50 active members to leave and only an absolute liar would suggest that. Even IF she was being unfair, the majority of the members would be happy enough to happy enough to accept such an "executive decision" to be rid of a cancer. So this does not pass the smell test on its own merits.

As far as Odeon being like Amy. I believe the ways I liken them was particularly easy to comprehend and does not require much in the way of speculation and much less the need for fantasising, unless you were an idiot.

I know that there are a minimum of rules here at I^2. But it needs to be remembered that the forum does not serve the rules, the rules need to serve the forum. If Odeon needs to change the rules to take into account that there are personalities and behaviours that the original rules could not foresee, and which are destroying I^2 as a productive and enjoyable platform, then that may need to be on the table. Transparency and due process are important, a sudden perma-ban and a refusal to discuss other options may produce a negative backlash (as was the case with AFF). A series of warnings followed by a series of suspensions of increasing length and plenty of room for a troublesome member to mend their ways may be a better approach.


Odeon can do whatever he likes on his own forum. As far as I know, it is exactly what he does do. HOWEVER, as with all things, there are always consequences to bad actions as there are to good actions.

The reality is that a place like I^2 isn't going to change the world. But it once did provide an enjoyable and fun escape for a large number of members. I don't now about the rest of the residual membership, but being stalked around the forum, insulted and attacked at every opportunity, confronted by angry and hostile walls of text every day, is not fun for most people. Except for one member who lives for that shit, and has been doing it for many years.

Hey it is not particularly fun for me being attacked either or having mod tools on me or being sinbinned or whatever but I am a big boy and I will live.

So this is interesting. You made some big claims which were not only untrue but some are demonstrably untrue. Furthermore, some claims you made cannot be proven. The fact that you get much of this so wrong has me suspect that you either are not who you claim to be (an ex-AFF member) or are purposefully lying. Why else would you get so much NOT misinterpreted but completely wrong?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Minister Of Silly Walks

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2017, 09:04:45 PM »
Back up my claims? No need. You are doing a fantastic job of backing up my claims be being as toxic and destructive a presence on this forum as you were on AFF.

For those who haven't spotted a pattern emerging, how many forums do you need to be at the centre of their demise before the penny drops that this is a pattern?
“When men oppress their fellow men, the oppressor ever finds, in the character of the oppressed, a full justification for his oppression.” Frederick Douglass

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #134 on: November 18, 2017, 09:22:04 PM »
Back up my claims? No need. You are doing a fantastic job of backing up my claims be being as toxic and destructive a presence on this forum as you were on AFF.

For those who haven't spotted a pattern emerging, how many forums do you need to be at the centre of their demise before the penny drops that this is a pattern?

I have not backed up a single claim of yours.

You made some clear claims which I quote in case you may see fit to delete them

Quote
Seeing as I^2 was used as a platform to launch the backlash against Amy and Gareth

Is this truth or is this a lie. If it is truth, as I have shown finding actual evidence of interactions about AFF on I2 is pretty easy. This is a big claim, are you standing behind it or are you impotently going to deflect?

Which forums was I the centre of a collapse with? Not AFF. The initial purge was not centred on my actions, though I absolutely was banned as were a number of others and there was around 50 people includuing those banned objecting to the treatment from Amy. In the second instance where she closed the forum, I was already banned and had no sway. People asked the questioned and asked for my return. I did not learn about this until the forum was shut down.

Now either you know this and are deliberately misrepresenting things or you do not know it and are making it all up as you are going along. But assuming you were a member, why would you NOT know? Assuming you must know IF you were a member, why are you lying?

Seems to be a pattern and it seems to be centred around you making bullshit allegations that you cannot back up. Why is that?
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap