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Author Topic: I really can't believe you all bought it!  (Read 984 times)

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Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2017, 12:59:36 AM »
Maybe I'm jumping to silly  conclusions,  but I assume  it was Minister of silly walks who told Odeon the other version, Al. Looks like a no-brainer to me. Or am I missing something?

 
Aspiesforfreedom. Brought down by Al's vendetta against the founders/admins of that site.

 :apondering:  Ofc. could be that third , unknown party told both Odeon and MoSW same story.  In any case , I see no reason to suppose  that Odeon just made the story up. Looks to me like he all-too-cleary believes it. Confirmation bias , maybe?

In any case , it only takes one person to start a rumour. You can' reasonably nor realistically accuse everybody who believes it of dishonesty. If somebody trust their  source, they will swallow it all-to-often .  Happens all the time,.

In other words, you don't know my sources or what I'm basing my stance on but think I'm wrong nevertheless?

I find what I've heard credible because I've heard it from several sources, but also because I've seen first hand what Al does here. Obviously I don't *know* why AFF closed down but neither does anyone else other than Amy Nelson.

I'd like to close this with my favourite SNL quote: Before criticising someone you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticise them you'll be a mile away and have their shoes.

I doubt it. Again, directly after the event two tbreads and many members fro mm there posting here and not the general consensus but the entire discourse is one way traffic. They ALL agree with my description of what went down.

Credibility backs that given the cliseness to t gyme event, people involved and the shared perspective by so many.

Then we have you, running in complete contradiction to this with imaginary sources.

It makes you look like a liar or a misled fool willing to state lies as fact when he want to spread smear and propaganda.

Slimy

Imaginary? All?

You're being staggeringly dishonest. Is this your guilt speaking?
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2017, 01:12:50 AM »
What's this about imaginary sources? It's clear Ministry of silly walks is one source, and as far as I know  :tinfoil: they are neither Gareth nor Amy. The threads point out a bunch of other people who have their own takes on what happened and how it affects them. So why insist that ALL agree with you in full?

As I say, facts do not picks sides. Sometimes saying that something is your opinion doesn't imbue it with any more truth.

For example, I do not like Odeon and I do not like the increase in moderation creep on I2. HOWEVER,  if I start putting it around that I2 is now the most moderated forum in Autism spaces, this would be untrue and hearing it from others doesn't make it more true. I may have reason to say so and acknowledge the level of moderation as a problem but that is not the same as making the allegation or even the inference. Disliking Odeon does not make it more true nor make it more likely that I am more likely to believe dishonesty.

That is Odeon now. Amy was responsible for Amy's actions on AFF. AFF getting closed down was due to her reactive volitile and authoritarian behaviour. Nothing more nothing left.

The fact too is I was already gone when she spat the dummy because people quwstioned why I was gone and wanted me back. She did not like that. The vendetta, bullying and casual narrative falls rather flat

I find it highly credible that your behaviour was instrumental in the closing of AFF it and my sources back it up. I can't verify it, but then, neither can you. Facts do pick sides, in this case. They are with Amy.

I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2017, 01:16:38 AM »
If you actually believed it, I don't think it would be dishonest.

That said, I don't need you to explain Odeon to me, I can form my own opinions.   :sleepy:

I dont need to. Just replying. Sharing perspectives.

I think he is peddling dishonesty as fact-based claims and when called on it, is faking ignorance.

I think its slimy

I look at your behaviour here and I hear stories from people who were there. Nothing ignorant or dishonest about any of it. I think you've become as toxic to this place as you were to AFF.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2017, 05:10:14 AM »
Odeon, sometimes rumours circulated privately by sources that prefer to remain  anonymous turn out to contain good info, but most often they don't.  Most often they are put about by the real villain of the piece, and are designed to destroy their enemies' credibilty, or otherwise sow mischief.

For my own part , I was dismissive of your sources, simply  because this very much appears to be a case-in-point.  Well , maybe, just maybe,  I've dismissed  some good and relevant info out-of-hand   but heck, you've offered us no other way  of assessing  it for ourselves have you? You can't seriously expect people to eat your opinion on the matter out of your hand?

I do have concerns about Al's recent  behaviour- I've made no secret of that. But the accusation that he brought down AFF was left-of-field.  And I do very much want to be fair to him.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 05:24:30 AM by Walkie »

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2017, 05:37:58 AM »
Thankfully on I2 we back wahat we say rather than make slimy anonymous claims with nothing to back them but hot air, snark, dishonesty, misrepresentation and impotence:

I find it highly credible that your behaviour was instrumental in the closing of AFF it and my sources back it up. I can't verify it, but then, neither can you. Facts do pick sides, in this case. They are with Amy.

Oh, and I don't much care for Al's 'historical truth', considering his behaviour and revisionism here.

You're being staggeringly dishonest. Is this your guilt speaking?


VS

Yes, it is a little historical revisionism. But let's spell it out. I CAN confirm this all in another two threads on here.

Many years ago on AFF Amy and Gareth got busy in real life stuff and left the forum. They left the place to the rest of us on the forum. The mods like Evil Zakkie and our beloved CBC had limited powers and were not Admins. They could not ban but as I remember could delete and edit posts.

There were a few people who generally countered trolls and people that would seek to harm the people or culture there whilst the Admins were asleep at the wheel. Max the Bear was one and so was yours truly.

The forum built up and went from strength to strength over the next couple of years it became a hub of activism and support and had a layered culture. Sounds great right?

Then Amy and Gareth barged in and Amy insinuated herself in the thick of things and start pushing her odious personality on things. She insulted people and what they were up to and told us what to stop and what to concentrate on and had no clue who was who and what. She started barking orders and giving warnings. The people revolted.

Some organised very indirect protests such as logging off for a day or so and some changed their avatar to one with a gag on it. (We are looking at about 50 members to give you an indication of the size of this). I was asked but decided to do what I normally do and go to the source and did. I went in hard on her for all the shit she was causing.

She banned me and about 7 others and that 50 left. Then she went through and "sanitised the board" and edited it and for her coup de grace she publicly blamed me for organising the protests.

One banned member came back onto the board soon afterwards and through no little work and generousity of spirit graduated his standing. He became an Admin and was well regarded by Gareth. Amy treated him in general with disdain and sometimes actively worked against him. The work Pikajedi did on the forum was solid and his ability to dance and sidestep around Amy's bullshit was masterful.

He recognised pretty quickly who I was when I came back and realising too that it was bullshit for me getting shitcanned, allowed me on as he had been allowed on by Gareth.

Amy had been off and Pikajedi was mainly running the show and with Gareth piping in occasionally. Amy did frequent the chat but was not that interested interacting. Things were pretty okay. The once great AFF had never really recovered from the heights of maybe 60-65 active and contributing members before the purge, but it had built up a little and such.

Then in comes Amy. She starts throwing her weight around and doing the same sort of shit she did years before. Most people (unlike previously) were cowed, I was not. I pointed out every instance of her stupidity and dishonesty and why it was so. She did not like that. She banned me.

The next day everyone revolted and asked why she banned me and demanded me back. She threw a hissy fit and closed the forum.

THAT is the historical truth behind it and it is evidenced on here.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,19145.0.html

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,21384.0.html




Gareth (Owner Amin of AFF) talking about the first time they did the bannings and purge and

Some people didn't come back, a lot did. Me and Amy were busy (with what doesn't matter - the time when AFF was our only big purpose in life is passed for better or worse), we came back and Amy was made to feel a little like maria and altair returning to masyaf (yeah, i'm still addicted to Assassins Creed - long story short, they leave the assassin order after leaving it in good hands, they return to find it a shadow of its former self with no training happening and themselves very unwelcome, they get chased back out again only to return later after killing the new leader).

Gareth Owner and Admin of AFF talking about rewriting the history on AFF after the purge (rather than and perhaps to cover for Amy rather than admit the truth of what happened and her part in things)

It was perhaps a rewrite - we got rid of a lot of posts which caused nothing but conflict.
Think about the greater purpose and goals of AFF - they're hopeless if we dwell on old ingroup conflicts and drama - getting rid of those old posts allowed things to move on a bit.

Gareth Owner and Admin of AFF talking about once again being away from AFFand leaving AFF to prosper

Food for thought:
Right now AFF is in the middle of another extended period free of the presence of myself and Amy (I only just made a few posts there in the past few days after a long period of absence). If AFF is currently off-track, it is not due to my own or Amy's bad leadership leading it down the wrong path - at present we're leading it nowhere and trusting the community to lead itself.

Gareth - Owner/Admin of AFF - Admitting that their purge was not a great idea

Quote
Of the activists that you had you were basically left with two. Skyblue and KenG.
Of the other active posters, Guess Who, Alison, Marcia, Windy....who else? 40 others which generated a lot of posts and interaction simply disappeared all within a week. Not really one of your better moments, huh?
Indeed

Pikajedi Admin of AFF in respect to who the ringleader was in the first purging and what my role ACTUALLY was - hint - exactly what I said

Furthermore if you DID want to know who was organising all of this it would really come down to two people (if not me) wouldn't it? Think back on who were two of the biggest personalities there at the time. It will be one or the other. It simply was not me.

Al is Bloke is Rossco.
He was not a ringleader of the "main" protests, he was off doing his own thing - directly to what was viewed as the root of the problem, to talk it out. Yes, Rossco is blunt, he is direct, he doesn't pull his punches - hell, sometimes he's downright rude; But he's not a weasel. If he's ever going to stab you in the back it'll be to your face, to steal from Firefly.

I'll tell you straight up who the main shitstirrer was - Max the Bear.

This is why I didn't ban Bloke when I knew full well he was Rossco; His ban, like my own, Bardwolfs and a few others, were completely unfair and kneejerk - and in the case of Bardwolf and at least one other, I've undone them.


Max the Bear can eat shit, though.

*Edit*

Also, can we move this somewhere Guests can't see it

Gareth owner of AFF admitting he was wrong (and Amy's narrative that I was the ringleader was and is bullshit)

Furthermore if you DID want to know who was organising all of this it would really come down to two people (if not me) wouldn't it? Think back on who were two of the biggest personalities there at the time. It will be one or the other. It simply was not me.

Al is Bloke is Rossco.
He was not a ringleader of the "main" protests, he was off doing his own thing - directly to what was viewed as the root of the problem, to talk it out. Yes, Rossco is blunt, he is direct, he doesn't pull his punches - hell, sometimes he's downright rude; But he's not a weasel. If he's ever going to stab you in the back it'll be to your face, to steal from Firefly.

I'll tell you straight up who the main shitstirrer was - Max the Bear.

This is why I didn't ban Bloke when I knew full well he was Rossco; His ban, like my own, Bardwolfs and a few others, were completely unfair and kneejerk - and in the case of Bardwolf and at least one other, I've undone them.

Max the Bear can eat shit, though.

*Edit*

Also, can we move this somewhere Guests can't see it

Pikajedi said this to me on MSN too, i'm pretty much forced to go along with it at this point.

Member of AFF - El Presidente - on AFF closing AFTER I was already banned

Update! They have closed the AFF board because a few of us dared to support a banned member. No doubt they are editing our posts to make us look bad. Al is right about double standards.

SG member of AFF on AFF closing AFTER I was already banned

OMFG

AFF SHUT DOWN...

(either that or I got banned  :dunno: )

Why?

BECAUSE MOST EVERYONE WANTS A RETURN OF BLOKE
.

SG member of AFF - not use of the word scuffle. I had a disagreement with her NOT a feud or a long term deal. She came back from the above mentioned hiatus and started in on everyone as she did years before and then got to me and ....very quickly banned me. I was generally well liked there.

I hardly know what is going on.

Apparently Bloke got into a scuffle and Amy banned him, permanently.

Then El-prez started a thread "Bring Bloke Back"....there was shitton of support for bloke- we all love him, minus a few members who remained neutral.

Then that thread got locked.

So I created a thread "BLOKE" to basically continue el-prez's thread since his got locked.

Next thing I know the site is down.

Aspie Momma AFF member on the atmosphere when Amy came back and handling things badly AND my support again.

I am disappointed.

By reacting this way instead of engaging Bloke, Bloke comes out on top, especially in light of the fact that he had so much support after the ban. I haven't been there much lately, but I would probably have showed my support as well. I doubt he did anything truly ban-worthy.

By closing the site they are cutting off the only source of meaningful human contact for some. Sure, it is their site, but it means a lot to a lot of people. Some degree of responsibility is taken on because of this whether they like it or not.

After what happened recently with the shuffling if mods/admins this is too much. It was handled very poorly. I don't understand why Genesis could not have been kept on as mod. It seems a but controlling, and this doesn't help that perception.

Now everyone is going to walk on eggshells again, lest they land on the receiving end of a witch hunt style banning spree.

As much as I love I2, AFF is different. It tends to serve the needs of younger people and those who are DXed as adults.  It is smaller than WP, so it is easier to connect with others.

Larry and I were just talking about the idea if putting something together for younger Autists. Maybe this is the kick in the ass we need.

*sighs*

I hope it isn't how it seems...

Cynara member of AFF supporting me and Amy's twattery

I posted support for Les, I cant access AFF.
This is twattery, are we all supposed to be grown-ups?
Are we all banned for the sin of disagreement with Amy?
   :dunno:

....And our favourite bovine, and member of AFF

I hardly know what is going on.

Apparently Bloke got into a scuffle and Amy banned him, permanently.

Then El-prez started a thread "Bring Bloke Back"....there was shitton of support for bloke- we all love him, minus a few members who remained neutral.

Then that thread got locked.

So I created a thread "BLOKE" to basically continue el-prez's thread since his got locked.

Next thing I know the site is down.

Is this something like a "five years itch" at AFF?

Shutting down the site, and Bloke being permabanned, and people supporting him. And, most and for all, Amy going out of her mind, looks like something that happened in July/August 5 years ago.

Have there been admins banned too?


So.....Odeon are you going to put up or shut up or continue being dishonest, weaselly, slimy, and impotent?

Again, there is plenty of material so much easier than resorting to lies to try to sell a bad lie.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Almighty Kek

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2017, 05:55:46 AM »
What's this about imaginary sources? It's clear Ministry of silly walks is one source, and as far as I know  :tinfoil: they are neither Gareth nor Amy. The threads point out a bunch of other people who have their own takes on what happened and how it affects them. So why insist that ALL agree with you in full?

People are entitled to their own opinions, just not their own facts.

The irony. :LMAO:

Shaming tactic and hubris.

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2017, 06:04:55 AM »
What's this about imaginary sources? It's clear Ministry of silly walks is one source, and as far as I know  :tinfoil: they are neither Gareth nor Amy. The threads point out a bunch of other people who have their own takes on what happened and how it affects them. So why insist that ALL agree with you in full?

People are entitled to their own opinions, just not their own facts.

The irony. :LMAO:

Shaming tactic and hubris.
No, actually, that was really funny, coming from you.   :LOL:

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2017, 06:17:22 AM »
As a vet of several defunct fora, I'm in a position to make the following observation:

One very effective  way to destroy a forum is to goad the biggest mouth on the forum into making a bunch of wild accusations against Admin.  Then campaign for same to be banned. Once he's  banned, you start shooting down all his sympathisers.  A good way to do this is to circulate a bunch of nasty rumours about them, with emphasis on "dishonesty"  , so that any inconvenient truth that leaks out can be easily dismissed as  a lie.  Whilst circulating said rumours you offer a very pausible reason as to why  your identity should not be made public, of course. 

 Eventually you get a good half of the forum either at each other's throats or paranoid as fuck. Or both, ofc.  Eventually Admin succumbs to the toxic atmosphere and pulls the plug.  If you're really clever about it, the whole fiasco gets blamed on Motormouth, and you come out smelling of roses. 

I thought that kind of thing was unlikely to work on I2, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder. On the surface of it, this surely looks like a variation on that theme.  And even if nobody's pulling our strings after all (that's pure speculation on my part)  it surely is a toxic atmosphere, and cries of "Liar!" are not helping in the least.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:30:19 AM by Walkie »

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2017, 06:32:34 AM »
As a vet of several defunct fora, I'm in a position to make the following observation:

One very effective  way to destroy a forum is to goad the biggest mouth on the forum into making a bunch of wild accusations against Admin.  Then campaign for same to be banned. Once he's  banned, you start shooting down all his sympathisers.  A good way to do this is to circulate a bunch of nasty rumours about them, with emphasis on "dishonesty"  , so that any inconvenient truth that leaks out can be easily dismissed as  a lie.  Whilst circulating said rumours you offer a very pausible reason as to why  your identity should not be made public, of course. 

 Eventually you get a good half of the forum either at each other's throats or paranoid as fuck. Or both, ofc.  Eventually Admin succumbs to the toxic atmosphere and pulls the plug.  If you're really clever about it, the whole fiasco gets blamed on Motormouth, and you come out smelling of roses. 

I thought that kind of thing was unlikely to work on I2, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder. On the surface of it, this surely looks like a variation on that theme.  And even if nobody's pulling our strings after all (that's pure speculation on my part)  it surely is a toxic atmosphere.

One irony in this is that despite everything, I have said that I am happy to contain my ill will relating to Odeon, here (in this thread) and only in as much as replying. I have agreed to that. Odeon can continue things here or not but I will not seek it out elsewhere. Once it dies down here, I do not press it elsewhere.

What you said made perfect sense which is why in a previous example, I said:


Let's be candid. I think the level of moderation creep from Odeon is shameful and if he continues, it may one day reach some other heavily moderated forums BUT I am not going to dishonest state bullshit to sell a narrative. It would be dishonest to say this is as heavily moderated as WP for example.

With the above hypothetical,  what if Rabbit from Hell, Robert N, Meadow, Buttcoffee and TCO all agreed with my smear, would that mean the statement was any more credible or correct?

This is the bullshit Odeon is trying.  He ought to have plenty of material without resorting to base dishonesty. This all presumes his sources are not simply him making it all up to smear me and further his narrative by methods fair or foul
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 06:39:51 AM by Al Swearengen »
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2017, 12:51:13 PM »
Odeon, sometimes rumours circulated privately by sources that prefer to remain  anonymous turn out to contain good info, but most often they don't.  Most often they are put about by the real villain of the piece, and are designed to destroy their enemies' credibilty, or otherwise sow mischief.

For my own part , I was dismissive of your sources, simply  because this very much appears to be a case-in-point.  Well , maybe, just maybe,  I've dismissed  some good and relevant info out-of-hand   but heck, you've offered us no other way  of assessing  it for ourselves have you? You can't seriously expect people to eat your opinion on the matter out of your hand?

I do have concerns about Al's recent  behaviour- I've made no secret of that. But the accusation that he brought down AFF was left-of-field.  And I do very much want to be fair to him.

/shrugs

We'll have to disagree.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2017, 12:52:23 PM »
What's this about imaginary sources? It's clear Ministry of silly walks is one source, and as far as I know  :tinfoil: they are neither Gareth nor Amy. The threads point out a bunch of other people who have their own takes on what happened and how it affects them. So why insist that ALL agree with you in full?

People are entitled to their own opinions, just not their own facts.

The irony. :LMAO:

Shaming tactic and hubris.

Oh, is it now?  :hahaha:
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2017, 01:00:51 PM »
As a vet of several defunct fora, I'm in a position to make the following observation:

One very effective  way to destroy a forum is to goad the biggest mouth on the forum into making a bunch of wild accusations against Admin.  Then campaign for same to be banned. Once he's  banned, you start shooting down all his sympathisers.  A good way to do this is to circulate a bunch of nasty rumours about them, with emphasis on "dishonesty"  , so that any inconvenient truth that leaks out can be easily dismissed as  a lie.  Whilst circulating said rumours you offer a very pausible reason as to why  your identity should not be made public, of course. 

 Eventually you get a good half of the forum either at each other's throats or paranoid as fuck. Or both, ofc.  Eventually Admin succumbs to the toxic atmosphere and pulls the plug.  If you're really clever about it, the whole fiasco gets blamed on Motormouth, and you come out smelling of roses. 

I thought that kind of thing was unlikely to work on I2, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder. On the surface of it, this surely looks like a variation on that theme.  And even if nobody's pulling our strings after all (that's pure speculation on my part)  it surely is a toxic atmosphere, and cries of "Liar!" are not helping in the least.

You seem convinced that strings are being pulled. I don't think that's the case and I've been around for some time, too.

Al's said that he'll contain his bs to this thread which should be enough to contain the toxicity, too. We'll see. As you might have guessed, I don't trust him.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2017, 01:05:27 PM »
As for the final demise of AFF, does anyone know Amy well enough to simply ask?
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2017, 02:28:44 PM »
As a vet of several defunct fora, I'm in a position to make the following observation:

One very effective  way to destroy a forum is to goad the biggest mouth on the forum into making a bunch of wild accusations against Admin.  Then campaign for same to be banned. Once he's  banned, you start shooting down all his sympathisers.  A good way to do this is to circulate a bunch of nasty rumours about them, with emphasis on "dishonesty"  , so that any inconvenient truth that leaks out can be easily dismissed as  a lie.  Whilst circulating said rumours you offer a very pausible reason as to why  your identity should not be made public, of course. 

 Eventually you get a good half of the forum either at each other's throats or paranoid as fuck. Or both, ofc.  Eventually Admin succumbs to the toxic atmosphere and pulls the plug.  If you're really clever about it, the whole fiasco gets blamed on Motormouth, and you come out smelling of roses. 

I thought that kind of thing was unlikely to work on I2, but I'm seriously beginning to wonder. On the surface of it, this surely looks like a variation on that theme.  And even if nobody's pulling our strings after all (that's pure speculation on my part)  it surely is a toxic atmosphere, and cries of "Liar!" are not helping in the least.

You seem convinced that strings are being pulled. I don't think that's the case and I've been around for some time, too.

Al's said that he'll contain his bs to this thread which should be enough to contain the toxicity, too. We'll see. As you might have guessed, I don't trust him.
Just to make myself clear:  there's a big difference , in my vocabulary, between "beginning to suspect", and "It's a fact".  Also, in my vocabulary, "that's pure speculation on my part" is more than a meaningless blast of hot air.

On other fora , I've been in the unusual position of  knowing exactly what was going on, exactly who was resposible, and was able to gather a bunch of hard evidence. I've even been personally targetted by one or two of those subterranean smear campaigns, on account of my knowing too much.  If the same were true here, I'd be a lot more explicit . I wouldn't limit myself to pointing out worrying patterns, I would bloody well pounce.

It's not just a question of being " around for a long time" .  How many fora have fallen to pieces around you, Odeon? And how much did you learn about the subterranean goings-on? I learned a lot more than your average Admin would ever learn -  largely  because people tend to share their personal problems with me, and these things do get very , very personal.  And I ask people  questions like "WTF happened to your self-confidence?" and the answer occasionally  turns out to be a ruthless bullying campaign, that nobody knew about, nor even suspected , because it all happened behind the scenes. (and yes, I've seen the actual damning  PMs)

Meantime, the people running to Admin and making complaints and accusations were not the people who were being damaged; quite the opposite, most often.

So, I think I most likely know a lot more than you about that sort of thing. But I'm open to being surprised.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:32:40 PM by Walkie »

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #89 on: November 14, 2017, 02:50:55 PM »
Amy lies. But I am, again, not about dishonesty and hot air. Here is me backing myself.

Here is the lie she spread about me AND told her husband

Hey Gareth why did you and Amy lie about reasons for those mass-banning those years ago?
I don't recall ever lieing about the reason for a ban, but then if i'm a liar there is of course no point in listening to me is there?

Quote
It depends entirely, doesn't it Gareth? Sometimes justifications, right or wrong, paint a picture from the poster, that the person interviewing them can not paint. Sometimes it is good to see how someone manipulates truth. Sometimes we are amazed at honesty from a place of dark deceit.

But hey you "don't recall"? Let me help you with at least one instance and we can work from there.
You supported the lie that Amy sprouted publicly that Rossco was organising a group of people to attack Amy and yourself. That was of course Bullshit, but Amy endorsed it publicly. Rossco always went straight to the source of the problem, Amy, at every instance without organising anything with any one. Also without involving himself in things like the gagging avatar thing or whatever. This is whilst you were doing your best to distance yourself from any direct involvement.

When Rossco was banned this was the reason given, that he was the ringleader to these actions. She stated she had proof given by Pm but could not publish it. This too was bullshit as there was no proof, because there was no truth behind the allegation. It was just a sneaky manipulative lie that she could tell, whilst pretending to hide behind the good form of allowing the non-existent "whistleblower" anonimity

There was no whistleblower. No Pm. Just a very angry lady, to whom you are married, wanting to force her will and make a somewhat plausible smear and ban on Rossco. She was prepared to lie to get it.

Here is Callaway asking a very logical question as to how to get Amy to disprove the lie

Why don't you just ask Amy to show you the PM she received that accused Rossco of organizing members to attack you?  Then you could see what evidence the person who PMed her gave to support this allegation against him, or whether there was any evidence.   

Gareth realising that she had lied to him again

I'd rather not bother her with digging up that old drama, that's why.

Pikajedi bodyslamming the lie and him realising she lied to him again

Furthermore if you DID want to know who was organising all of this it would really come down to two people (if not me) wouldn't it? Think back on who were two of the biggest personalities there at the time. It will be one or the other. It simply was not me.

Al is Bloke is Rossco.
He was not a ringleader of the "main" protests, he was off doing his own thing - directly to what was viewed as the root of the problem, to talk it out. Yes, Rossco is blunt, he is direct, he doesn't pull his punches - hell, sometimes he's downright rude; But he's not a weasel. If he's ever going to stab you in the back it'll be to your face, to steal from Firefly.

I'll tell you straight up who the main shitstirrer was - Max the Bear.

This is why I didn't ban Bloke when I knew full well he was Rossco; His ban, like my own, Bardwolfs and a few others, were completely unfair and kneejerk - and in the case of Bardwolf and at least one other, I've undone them.

Max the Bear can eat shit, though.

*Edit*

Also, can we move this somewhere Guests can't see it

Pikajedi said this to me on MSN too, i'm pretty much forced to go along with it at this point.

Yet Odeon thinks it is best to see whether Amy will stick to the lie. (Hint: She will. If she is prepared to tell her husband the lie she will tell anyone here the same lie)


Odeon are you going to back your narrative. I have backed mine Twice now and you had still use anonymous secret sources that allegedly told you something. I have it all here in black and white in words that are not my own. Could you start backing yourself. We both made big claims and I have backed mine.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 04:30:02 PM by Al Swearengen »
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch