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Author Topic: I really can't believe you all bought it!  (Read 1078 times)

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Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2017, 11:58:50 AM »
In view of that, I have one last practical suggestion to make: that Pyraxis take over control of the site, on a tempoary basis, until either these problems with Al are resolved one wayor another,  or else she gives up on trying to resolve them . It seems we pretty much all have confidence in Pyraxis, and  any judgement she might make, even if harsh, would leave a better taste in the mouth.  I, for one, don't want to see Odeon in the position of having to actually ban Al.  I think that would leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth (Odeon included) and we;'d never hear the end of the repercussions. Ofc, that could also result in Odeon being banned, sinbinned or what-have-you. Hmm. Well that could be a laugh.  I hope Odeon is willing to take that risk?

I very much doubt it would make any difference to hand over control to Py, and I'm not interested in doing so. I'm NOT about to be driven away by a bully. Besides, trying to resolve anything with Al is utterly pointless. What makes you think it would work this time when all past attempts, including your own, failed? No, he will simply have to back down or face a ban, and I have no problems with living with that decision.

I'm sorry you're not intersted in trying the experiment  :( . To answer your question: as you can't help but know, Al has repeatedly complained that you're exploiting an unfair advantage that you happen to have, by using your moderation tools on him when you're losing a fight  with him.   No use arguing with that, it's a matter of opinion, can't be proved either way.

 If Py took over the reins, that would, for the first time ever,  put the pair of you on a completely level playing field wouldn't it? I don't know, but  I think that could make a huge difference between the pair of you.  Worth a shot.

Anyway, in general, it's really not a good idea for a moderator or Admin to be the one to discipline a member he has a personal bitch with, because mods are just human beings, like the rest of us, and we can't really expect a god-like detachment from them. If an alterative (non-involved) Mod is available, that alternative should step in instead.

Incidentally, I once said that on another forum , after the resident Narcissicist abruptly banned his worst enemy whilst all the other mods were sleeping  I said: "He should have stepped back and let somebody else make  that decision" giving same rationale I stated  above.  Next thing , the guy jumped on me , and threatened to ban me for having the cheek to question his judgement *chuckle* .  The other Mods restrained him, though.

Nah, I don't think you're anywhere near that bad, Odeon, I really don't.  but some people round here seem  have no idea what a real Forum Tyrant is like, and they're saying you're that bad, aren't they? *sigh*. So proving them wrong also looks like a pretty good idea to me.   Futile perhaps, but an added bonus.

Anyway,  I believe that people would respect you all the more for it. And I'm pretty damned sure that Pyraxis would look after the place well, and return the keys promptly, when asked.


Offline Jack

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2017, 12:18:17 PM »
Anyway, in general, it's really not a good idea for a moderator or Admin to be the one to discipline a member he has a personal bitch with, because mods are just human beings, like the rest of us, and we can't really expect a god-like detachment from them. If an alterative (non-involved) Mod is available, that alternative should step in instead.
That's a great suggestion. Disagree with the idea of Odeon giving up the forum over this if he doesn't wan to, but letting someone else make the decisions in his own personal arguments is an idea worth consideration.

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2017, 12:19:01 PM »
Py, I see much of Odeon's ultimatums as akin to chest-thumping. I know this is supposed to be the bit where I genuflect to Odeon or something. But I will quarantine my snark and what not to this thread for as long as others want to have a go. I am happy as I say to do what I was doing 2015. I will not seek Odeon out for argument or endorsement.

I have said a few times that I do not expect he will keep a truce but I will do my bit to make it easy for him to do so. It will not take much to spoil that nor to keep it. But I expect Odeon will choose the former.

That is my commitment and on record. You can hold me to that. I know you are making an effort and I am not that unreasonable not to try too.

Glad to hear it Al.  Sorry I haven't yet responded to your reply to me, which was also appreciated. But I'm a slow-coach, as you know;  it takes me bloody ages to translate my thoughts into words and I do try to chose my words carefully.   So maybe there;'s a reply in pipeline, if i manage find enough energy to spare, but do  think that an acknowledment at the very least is called for, right away .

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2017, 02:54:02 PM »
In view of that, I have one last practical suggestion to make: that Pyraxis take over control of the site, on a tempoary basis, until either these problems with Al are resolved one wayor another,  or else she gives up on trying to resolve them . It seems we pretty much all have confidence in Pyraxis, and  any judgement she might make, even if harsh, would leave a better taste in the mouth.  I, for one, don't want to see Odeon in the position of having to actually ban Al.  I think that would leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth (Odeon included) and we;'d never hear the end of the repercussions. Ofc, that could also result in Odeon being banned, sinbinned or what-have-you. Hmm. Well that could be a laugh.  I hope Odeon is willing to take that risk?

I very much doubt it would make any difference to hand over control to Py, and I'm not interested in doing so. I'm NOT about to be driven away by a bully. Besides, trying to resolve anything with Al is utterly pointless. What makes you think it would work this time when all past attempts, including your own, failed? No, he will simply have to back down or face a ban, and I have no problems with living with that decision.

I'm sorry you're not intersted in trying the experiment  :( . To answer your question: as you can't help but know, Al has repeatedly complained that you're exploiting an unfair advantage that you happen to have, by using your moderation tools on him when you're losing a fight  with him.   No use arguing with that, it's a matter of opinion, can't be proved either way.

 If Py took over the reins, that would, for the first time ever,  put the pair of you on a completely level playing field wouldn't it? I don't know, but  I think that could make a huge difference between the pair of you.  Worth a shot.

Anyway, in general, it's really not a good idea for a moderator or Admin to be the one to discipline a member he has a personal bitch with, because mods are just human beings, like the rest of us, and we can't really expect a god-like detachment from them. If an alterative (non-involved) Mod is available, that alternative should step in instead.

Incidentally, I once said that on another forum , after the resident Narcissicist abruptly banned his worst enemy whilst all the other mods were sleeping  I said: "He should have stepped back and let somebody else make  that decision" giving same rationale I stated  above.  Next thing , the guy jumped on me , and threatened to ban me for having the cheek to question his judgement *chuckle* .  The other Mods restrained him, though.

Nah, I don't think you're anywhere near that bad, Odeon, I really don't.  but some people round here seem  have no idea what a real Forum Tyrant is like, and they're saying you're that bad, aren't they? *sigh*. So proving them wrong also looks like a pretty good idea to me.   Futile perhaps, but an added bonus.

Anyway,  I believe that people would respect you all the more for it. And I'm pretty damned sure that Pyraxis would look after the place well, and return the keys promptly, when asked.

Not interested in proving anything, Walkie, and not interested in another experiment. This, to me, is a very simple issue. It's about me drawing a line and saying no more.

And no, Py, I'm not seeking your approval, I'm not seeking anyone's. Al was instrumental in bringing down one board. He sure as hell won't bring down this one.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2017, 02:54:44 PM »
Anyway, in general, it's really not a good idea for a moderator or Admin to be the one to discipline a member he has a personal bitch with, because mods are just human beings, like the rest of us, and we can't really expect a god-like detachment from them. If an alterative (non-involved) Mod is available, that alternative should step in instead.
That's a great suggestion. Disagree with the idea of Odeon giving up the forum over this if he doesn't wan to, but letting someone else make the decisions in his own personal arguments is an idea worth consideration.

No.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Jack

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2017, 04:22:45 PM »
Anyway, in general, it's really not a good idea for a moderator or Admin to be the one to discipline a member he has a personal bitch with, because mods are just human beings, like the rest of us, and we can't really expect a god-like detachment from them. If an alterative (non-involved) Mod is available, that alternative should step in instead.
That's a great suggestion. Disagree with the idea of Odeon giving up the forum over this if he doesn't wan to, but letting someone else make the decisions in his own personal arguments is an idea worth consideration.

No.
Okay.

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2017, 04:28:46 PM »
It's all about free will in the end.

 :eyebrows:
:gopher:

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2017, 04:57:39 PM »
And no, Py, I'm not seeking your approval, I'm not seeking anyone's.

Did I imply you were?

Al was instrumental in bringing down one board.

Say what? Which board are you referring to, and what happened?
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2017, 06:10:51 PM »
And no, Py, I'm not seeking your approval, I'm not seeking anyone's.

Did I imply you were?

Al was instrumental in bringing down one board.

Say what? Which board are you referring to, and what happened?

I was wondering the same.  Odd that this hasn't been said before. Am suspecting mistaken identity, but waiting for further info.

Offline Minister of silly walks

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2017, 08:34:02 PM »
Aspiesforfreedom. Brought down by Al's vendetta against the founders/admins of that site.

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2017, 08:52:27 PM »
Yeah so what's that story then? Still looking for details.
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2017, 08:54:58 PM »
Yes, it is a little historical revisionism. But let's spell it out. I CAN confirm this all in another two threads on here.

Many years ago on AFF Amy and Gareth got busy in real life stuff and left the forum. They left the place to the rest of us on the forum. The mods like Evil Zakkie and our beloved CBC had limited powers and were not Admins. They could not ban but as I remember could delete and edit posts.

There were a few people who generally countered trolls and people that would seek to harm the people or culture there whilst the Admins were asleep at the wheel. Max the Bear was one and so was yours truly.

The forum built up and went from strength to strength over the next couple of years it became a hub of activism and support and had a layered culture. Sounds great right?

Then Amy and Gareth barged in and Amy insinuated herself in the thick of things and start pushing her odious personality on things. She insulted people and what they were up to and told us what to stop and what to concentrate on and had no clue who was who and what. She started barking orders and giving warnings. The people revolted.

Some organised very indirect protests such as logging off for a day or so and some changed their avatar to one with a gag on it. (We are looking at about 50 members to give you an indication of the size of this). I was asked but decided to do what I normally do and go to the source and did. I went in hard on her for all the shit she was causing.

She banned me and about 7 others and that 50 left. Then she went through and "sanitised the board" and edited it and for her coup de grace she publicly blamed me for organising the protests.

One banned member came back onto the board soon afterwards and through no little work and generousity of spirit graduated his standing. He became an Admin and was well regarded by Gareth. Amy treated him in general with disdain and sometimes actively worked against him. The work Pikajedi did on the forum was solid and his ability to dance and sidestep around Amy's bullshit was masterful.

He recognised pretty quickly who I was when I came back and realising too that it was bullshit for me getting shitcanned, allowed me on as he had been allowed on by Gareth.

Amy had been off and Pikajedi was mainly running the show and with Gareth piping in occasionally. Amy did frequent the chat but was not that interested interacting. Things were pretty okay. The once great AFF had never really recovered from the heights of maybe 60-65 active and contributing members before the purge, but it had built up a little and such.

Then in comes Amy. She starts throwing her weight around and doing the same sort of shit she did years before. Most people (unlike previously) were cowed, I was not. I pointed out every instance of her stupidity and dishonesty and why it was so. She did not like that. She banned me.

The next day everyone revolted and asked why she banned me and demanded me back. She threw a hissy fit and closed the forum.

THAT is the historical truth behind it and it is evidenced on here.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,19145.0.html

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,21384.0.html

So Odeon was misrepresenting the situation but that is Odeon all over.

However, there are some similarities. I have mentioned already the Odeon and Amy similarity and the Pyraxis and Pikajedi similarity BUT the big one for me I think really needs unscoring:

If you are going to be an Admin then be an Admin. If you are going to be a member, be a member. If you are wanting to be an Admin but behave as a member, you do not get to leverage your Admin power over your member behavior. If you interact as a member and run into a member issue or member personality clash you do not then deal with that issue through the Admin panel.

We recognise this kind of behaviour in other situations and it is abhorrent.

For example:

a) If you are hired as a worker BUT you use the authority that your parent owns the workplace or is the workplace's funding source to slack off or do a subpar job because you can threat the wrath of your parent on the work if they give you a hard time.

b) Engaging in a game of skill or sporting endevour with your friend BUT with the implicit threat that IF they beat you, you will pack up your toys and go home.

c) Any standover tactic where a beating will apply if you do not contain your results.

We know that behaviour. It is slimy.

I am unmoved by Odeon's authoratative demands and happy to respond on this thread. I will not seek him out elsewhere but happy to reply to his obnoxious, pompous, dishonest, authorative, self-righteous, bloviating, indignation here. I do not do meek well and I will be damned if I will put up with his dishonesty and insults.

Odeon says "Al has a choice". Odeon has choices and hiatus or not, he was never the victim in our feud, any more than I was. He elevates my conduct well above its station to say it is all on me.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2017, 10:10:46 PM »
Oh! thanks for the history, Al.  But if Odeon means AFF, that's the first i ever heard of anybody blaming you for that, and the nth time I've heard it was all Amy's fault :S.    So I'm still perplexed about this .
 
Who the heck is Minister of silly walks?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 10:14:47 PM by Walkie »

Offline Genesis

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2017, 10:18:17 PM »
Oh! thanks for the history, Al.  But if Odeon means AFF, that's the first i ever heard of anybody blaming you for that, and the nth time I've heard it was all Amy's fault :S.    So I'm still perplexed about this .
 
Who the heck is Minister of silly walks?

I have no idea  :M

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2017, 11:41:43 PM »
Oh! thanks for the history, Al.  But if Odeon means AFF, that's the first i ever heard of anybody blaming you for that, and the nth time I've heard it was all Amy's fault :S.    So I'm still perplexed about this .
 
Who the heck is Minister of silly walks?

Right, it is who he means and yes you are right it was Amy and no, he and Amy blame me for it. They are alike.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch