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Author Topic: I really can't believe you all bought it!  (Read 1077 times)

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Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 10:59:09 AM »
Al, I will admit and shout from the rooftop that I have not read all (or even close to a minimum) of the differences between you and odeon and other members.  But I do sense that you don't have many members who agree with you. **

You've explained your position, points, differences numerous times.  And I haven't noticed any appreciable acknowledgement by whoever you have probems (?) with that they are willing to say you are correct.  Isn't one cliche of insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

Maybe it's time to just say you fought a strong, long hard battle, but it's time to put away disagreements.



** Shit, trying to choose my words properly and I forgot where I was going with this.  So I guess I'll change directions.
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Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2017, 06:50:19 PM »
Al, I will admit and shout from the rooftop that I have not read all (or even close to a minimum) of the differences between you and odeon and other members.  But I do sense that you don't have many members who agree with you. **

You've explained your position, points, differences numerous times.  And I haven't noticed any appreciable acknowledgement by whoever you have probems (?) with that they are willing to say you are correct.  Isn't one cliche of insanity:  Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

Maybe it's time to just say you fought a strong, long hard battle, but it's time to put away disagreements.



** Shit, trying to choose my words properly and I forgot where I was going with this.  So I guess I'll change directions.

I am consistent? Yup.

You know way back in  May /June 2015 Zegh set I  on me with some really personal and nasty shit and a feud resulted. I did not look for it but I did not back down from it. This place necessarily became a battleground. Me and him.
In April /May 2016, as the feud between Zegh and i was in its dying throes, Odeon decided to start in on me too, with a lot of dishonest and unreasonable shit and this escalated and escalated. I did not look for that either but I was never going to back down.So no time to dust myself down from the previous feud, just got on with it
A lot of people don't agree with me. No, people have their own perspectives. That unto itself is simply an appeal to popularity.
However, what other people think about my or how I view the world is a little irrelevant.
For me now its time I can actually have to dust myself off. Sure there are some I disagree with here and so me I dislike BUT I am feuding with no one and that is nice.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2017, 05:36:44 AM »
Relieved to find this board still extant.


If we still have a site, I think that these words badly need to changed:

 
Quote
You have found INTENSITY², the autistic spectrum site everyone loves to hate.

We stand for freedom of expression, combative debate, and the generation of ideas. There are no boundaries here over what may be said, save for one rule - be prepared to back up your words. Or face the wrath of the community.

As such this site is not suitable for children. If you are under 18 please come back when you aren't any more.

If you are over 18 and have the bottle for it,

I don't know what to , exactly, but I think they're misleading, especially to Al. 

"Combative debate" is great but not when it turns to an inexhaustible  flame war. I think the idea was that debate here would not be shut down just because somebody makes an ad hominem attack...as too frequently occurs on other fora.  That ought to  allow us to have real,  honest, no-holds-barred  debate on all the hot  issues (religion, politics ) that other fora outlaw as being too inflammatory.  Great!

  But what we get instead, is that any ad hominem attack against Al leads to personal  feud with Al (at Al's insistence) and all subsequent debate being flooded with said feud. It gets to be all about personality.

It ought to mean that personal differences get aired in public , instead of sent to PM  where they fester.  Great! But it's come to mean we have a forum that's pretty much all about personal differences. When all's said and done, it gets said and done again, and again and again until everybodys sick of it and nobody cares any more.  Whilst avoiding  being too restrictive, I think we really do need to find a way of moderating that; of somehow calling an end to the flogging of dead horses.

"Back up your words" should not mean "be willing to let Al pick all your words apart and  construct a multitude of straw men out of them , then attempt to satisfy him  whilst he gnaws at your ankles like demented  terrier  'til Kingdom Come  "  But that's clearly how Al interprets that rule.

"Freedom of expression " ought to mean that - unlike other fora-  people can  question the owner/admin's judgement . Nobody will be banned for saying that the Admin is an ass. That's extremely important. That should prevents I2 becoming the kind of toxic place where people who disagree with the despotic  boss just  quietly vanish. Allelujah! Such  places are ridiculously common. And I for one am here because I'm sick off that other sort of place; and  not because I want to engage in Al's version of "combative debate" all the fucking time.

But what about that those demented terriers? I do believe that "we ladies" are siding with Odeon, (if you must call it that. Though I would strongly disagree if I had the energy) because we can imagine how it would feel to be the owner/Admin and have one's ankles gnawed at every time one logs on.  That would be a whole lot worse than is is for we ordinary members , who can just go off and do something else, when sick to the teeth of it.  Whatever we might think of Odeon's behaviour,  I guess we all believe that punishment is way in excess of the crime. And what's more, we have a lot of affection for I2, a lot of investment in this board,  and we woul;d very much like the place to survive.  That this shit is destroying the board is all too painfully evident.

Oh, and by the way ,people,  Al's grudge with me is based upon this  : several weeks ago ( during some forgotten political debate or something) I asked if  Al might have been drinking too much bourbon? ( because I thought he was spouting a load of nonsense). Al felt slighted.  I  apologised.  Apology was not accepted (deemed "dishones" I  suppose) and my every post has been dissected for evidence of "dishonesty " ever since.

On the whole I'd much rather have had a temporary ban for my ad hominem attack against Al  (undfair  and unconstitutional though that would be) than all this wearisome retribution, with Al gathering further "evidence" all the time. 

 Al, sorry to say it, I don't like to take sides but I do think that your attitude is a much bigger problem than Odeon's childish "mods" are.  I think you're inexorably pushing him into behaving more and more disgracefully, and tou won;t be sartisied until the whole board goes up in flames. Then you'll blame it on Odeon's "dishonest moderation creep" , won't you?  But I'm pretty sure most of us will take a  different view.

This board still has a whole lot more freedom of expression  than just about anywhere else.  I very much value that. I very much want to preserve it. But now it looks  all-too-too likely that whole board will fall to a self-fulfilling prpophesy. We'll have  few who think this board is over-moderated rubbing their hands  with glee and saying "I told you so" . But  then we''ll also have  many who've said it 's under moderated" rubbing their hands with glee and saying "I  told you so" . Sadly,  I think the latter group will have  one heckova lot of credibility.  And then we'll all just have to    :gotowp:

« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 05:50:11 AM by Walkie »

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2017, 06:47:30 AM »
Hello there Walkie. You are still being dishonest even as you try to make a case for your dishonesty. It is clever. So I point out your dishonesty when I see it and in turn that dishonesty is justified BECAUSE it is me pointing it out. Got it!

You know it is not any more honest the narrative that all roads lead to Peaguy and everything that I took issue with Odeon was supported and ganged up against Odeon for, and based around what happened 6 years ago, than me apparently being a demented terrier gnawing at ankles. BUT it sounds almost believable.

Think about how honest something sounds before you type:
"Zegh left because Al was as effective and upsetting as a demented terrier gnawing at ankles"
"Al was sinbinned because he was as effective and upsetting as a demented terrier gnawing at ankles"
"Al was placed on a mod because he was as effective and upsetting as a demented terrier gnawing at ankles"

It is almost like you are not even trying for the appearance of honesty.

Ironically there IS SOME truth in here. I think it is worth sifting through to find it.

Quote
I do believe that "we ladies" are siding with Odeon, (if you must call it that. Though I would strongly disagree if I had the energy) because we can imagine how it would feel to be the owner/Admin and have one's ankles gnawed at every time one logs on.  That would be a whole lot worse than is is for we ordinary members , who can just go off and do something else, when sick to the teeth of it.  Whatever we might think of Odeon's behaviour,  I guess we all believe that punishment is way in excess of the crime. And what's more, we have a lot of affection for I2, a lot of investment in this board,  and we woul;d very much like the place to survive.

See, I do not necessarily agree that this is reason to side with anyone BUT the reasoning to want to sounds pretty solid. Honest. You do not have to lie for effect or to spin your narratives. Truth alone should sell your position. I CAN understand the above and I can respect that more than pretending that there is not the bias and that this is not the reasoning.

Here is some questions and I want you to honestly reflect on this and let me know.

Before you started typing this last post, did you imagine that it would be answered? Did you imagine I would critique it or I would let it go unchallenged? Do you believe me responding is and ought to be allowed, even if it is repudiating your claims? Do you believe that it is better for inferences and claims to paint a narrative that is untrue if the resulting perception supports a narrative that you believe is moral good or worthwhile (such as bringing harmony and peace)?

Here is a final one?

Had you decided NOT to post this post and have it shot down and exposed for the crock it is, what interaction against any member on here do you imagine that I may have had today IF the thrust of your convictions is that I am fighting everyone and this is going to bring down the board AND if you appreciate that I would respond negatively to any post like this?

Edit: By the way. your describing how things "should" be or should mean, is simply YOUR interpretation and perception. They are not mine and when I read the Intensitysquared mission statement, I take a different view. Guess who's view is better? Neither. Yours is not a more moral or virtuous position.

The fact that you are pushing for it to change to a different standard rather suggests that you believe your standard is better than all the hundreds of members of this board over more than a decade who signed onto this place acknowledging this standard and taking it as the minimum requirements to allow them to be here. You know better huh?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 06:56:05 AM by Al Swearengen »
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2017, 04:08:37 PM »
You've actually got the gist of it. People leave because of you. You're like a schoolyard bully on steroids.

But here's what's going to happen. Either you stop or I make you stop. Hyke mentioned that I'm not going to ban you but she was wrong. I've spent a couple of days on and off to think about all this and that just didn't seem right to me. I can ban you and I will ban you, if you don't stop this. I had my share of schoolyard bullies--many of us did--but that's all in the past. FourAce is absolutely right.

Your choice.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2017, 06:11:57 PM »
You've actually got the gist of it. People leave because of you. You're like a schoolyard bully on steroids.

But here's what's going to happen. Either you stop or I make you stop. Hyke mentioned that I'm not going to ban you but she was wrong. I've spent a couple of days on and off to think about all this and that just didn't seem right to me. I can ban you and I will ban you, if you don't stop this. I had my share of schoolyard bullies--many of us did--but that's all in the past. FourAce is absolutely right.

Your choice.

Oh hai, Odeon. You are back. Awesome (not really awesome)

The same things you accuse me of are equally applicable to yourself and your own conduct.

The difference is that I do not bother trying to hide behind the pseudo-justification that I get to do as I like because I am "protecting my famuly" or that "I can say as i like as I am paying the bills"

I do not do ultimatums and will not start now.

I am happy to post inconsequentially and relax on here as I used to back in 2015 AND I am equally okay blazing away at you. I am happy to give you a wide swath.

But let's be perfectly real and honest here. That will not be good enough for you. You broke every truce we made and I started calling it. Any agreement I could make to leave you allow willhave no bearing on your own conduct. What you are actually after is for me to be cowed into confrontation avoidance. Having agreed to the ultimatum, you will not be so constrained in your own behaviour as you would have with a truce (which you would have broken anyhow).

Regardless of what I agree to or how I behave, you will continue to start conflict with me but then use a ban with justification of retaliation.

Fuck that.

Odeon people do leave and I suggest a big reason is they have not the bottle for it anymore.  People do get banned for breaking the rules. If you ban someone whilst they are not breaking the rules, I suggest YOU have not the bottle for this place.

How about banning everyone who may possibly have cause to argue with you and you will be left with you, Cbc and Renaeden discussing the weather.

Or you know, stop being a pompous, impotent , sandbox authoritarian.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 02:25:36 AM »
Funny that you'd think our conducts were similar. They are not. You bully anyone daring to question you, endlessly, post after post, and you don't let go. You wear them down and eventually they think 'fuck this' and leave.

Bullying's got nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech or the free expression of ideas, and not tolerating it does not equal "not having the bottle for this place". Stop excusing your behaviour with what it says on the cover.

As I said, your choice, but this ends now.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 03:23:39 AM »
Funny that you'd think our conducts were similar. They are not. You bully anyone daring to question you, endlessly, post after post, and you don't let go. You wear them down and eventually they think 'fuck this' and leave.

Bullying's got nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech or the free expression of ideas, and not tolerating it does not equal "not having the bottle for this place". Stop excusing your behaviour with what it says on the cover.

As I said, your choice, but this ends now.

You may think it is funny, I do not much care.

 
Quote
You have found INTENSITY², the autistic spectrum site everyone loves to hate.

We stand for freedom of expression, combative debate, and the generation of ideas. There are no boundaries here over what may be said, save for one rule - be prepared to back up your words. Or face the wrath of the community.

As such this site is not suitable for children. If you are under 18 please come back when you aren't any more.

If you are over 18 and have the bottle for it,

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,119.0.html

What is intensity? part #1
« on: April 06, 2006, 10:54:02 PM »


We believe in the right to speak freely.

We believe that People with AS have not been allowed to speak freely.  And that society has been a bully which has forced their silence.  as a result people with AS seem to be a little on the ultra sensitive side.  We would like to give voice to People with AS, since the silence has been enforced by society for far to long.
intensity? is a place where freedom reigns supreme in the marketplace of ideas.  we encourage everybody to speak so that together we may form a collage of ideas and work out the truths as percieved by the AS Community.  Then we plan on taking those truths and become advocates for them.  and we will stand together and be counted, and we will speak up.

The price of speech is not free.  Each person will be held accountable for their words and challenged by the Community.  The off chance that you might be embarrassed for what you say, is the price of free speech.  People have no right to censor what another thinks, and abolish them before they get the right to speak.  that is what we have battled our entire lives and its over.
we demand the right here.  and we make use of that right.  right or wrong, you will not be silenced by those who wish to keep you from being counted.


we are not disabled by AS, we are challenged.  and we challenge you, to help us overcome those hurdles, and challenge us.


to be continued...

we encourage
*flaming
*name calling
*trolling
*free thought

*outside the box thinking
*the sophist method of debate
*search for truth
*and the right to speak, and keep speaking, and again, and as many times as necessary, until all parties are satisfied.


-intensity? community

I have bolded the necessary parts for you to ponder. Perhaps you can leave the site for another couple of days and ruminate over them.

This is what I signed up for and this is what I am following. SO tell me are YOU:

"People have no right to censor what another thinks, and abolish them before they get the right to speak.  that is what we have battled our entire lives and its over.
we demand the right here.  and we make use of that right.  right or wrong, you will not be silenced by those who wish to keep you from being counted.
"

Are YOU looking to silence ME and MY freedom of expression? Yes or no?
I am happy to face the wrath of the community, are you or did you want to take another hiatus?

Do YOU encourage:

we encourage
*flaming
*name calling
*trolling
*free thought
*and the right to speak, and keep speaking, and again, and as many times as necessary, until all parties are satisfied.


I particularly like:

*and the right to speak, and keep speaking, and again, and as many times as necessary, until all parties are satisfied

IF not then what the Hell are you doing?

I know, I know different standards for different people. Slimy.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Walkie

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2017, 06:08:54 AM »
Al, I wrote the following  last night, but got interrupted by a long phone call.  I think it's still worth saying. In fact , it's all the more worth saying , in the light of your argument with Odeon

Quote
Al, no I actually meant all the above-stated opions. Think what you like, but I don't intend to engage in an argument about  whether I meant what I said, and interrogation as to why would I say it, given  that i really think something else? As I have said before,  I 've had more than enough of people insisisting  that they know my mind better than I do, and pressing me into agreeing with their version of the " truth"    I had that all the fucking  time  when I was a kid . I  am not willing to take it from anyone now, least of all a fellow Aspie, who ought to damn well  know better.

Was gonna go on to say , I'm glad we found some points of agreement, would rather build on those.  However,  this does chime in with what Odeon said about bullying. He's right. I'm sure you don't think of it that way, but your behaviour really is a form of bullying. It's just the sort of thing I have in mind when I say that I was bullied more often  (and far more traumatically) by well-intentioned adults than by other kids.  I'm sure they believed that their actions were fully justified, too.   I 'm sure that they never for a monent realised that they were bullies.

But really , Al, being pressed and pressed and pressed to conform to  Al's mental model of one's own inner self  is no different, in effect, than being pressed and pressed and pressed and pressed to conform to  the NT model. Once somebody earns your wrath, then you unremittingly offer  them the exact kind of thing that we come to these boards to escape from. It goes way beyond name-calling and attacks a person at their core.

I'm sure that McJ would be very flattered to find that his words from 2006 are being enshrined in stone and regarded as gospel.  Pity he's not here to reconsider them in the light of subsequent developments.  It's even more of a pity that Wolfie (who co-founded the original Intensity, along with McJ) is no longer here to comment. Looks like we;ll just have to think for ourselves, doesn't it? Looks like we'll just have to ask ourselves if this site is working out as intended?

I see you didn't see fit to bold the majority McJ's mission statment, which is a pity, because it's a lot more posirtive  and constructive that you tend to give him credit for.  You've invariably  focussed instead on his projected means to that end, rather than the end in itself. So, here it is again:

We believe in the right to speak freely.

We believe that People with AS have not been allowed to speak freely.  And that society has been a bully which has forced their silence.  as a result people with AS seem to be a little on the ultra sensitive side.  We would like to give voice to People with AS, since the silence has been enforced by society for far to long.
intensity? is a place where freedom reigns supreme in the marketplace of ideas.  we encourage everybody to speak so that together we may form a collage of ideas and work out the truths as percieved by the AS Community.  Then we plan on taking those truths and become advocates for them.  and we will stand together and be counted, and we will speak up.

The price of speech is not free.  Each person will be held accountable for their words and challenged by the Community.  The off chance that you might be embarrassed for what you say, is the price of free speech.  People have no right to censor what another thinks, and abolish them before they get the right to speak.  that is what we have battled our entire lives and its over.
we demand the right here.  and we make use of that right.  right or wrong, you will not be silenced by those who wish to keep you from being counted.

we are not disabled by AS, we are challenged.  and we challenge you, to help us overcome those hurdles, and challenge us






I think that there's a tiny little flaw in that, which has come to acquire a lot of significance.  McJ just didn't happen to consider, at the time of writing,  that one way in which NT's tend to oppress our freedom of speech is by imposing their own narrative over ours and insist ing that they are right and we are wrong, even regarding our own subjective experience.

Intensity was clearly supposed to be a refuge from NT bullying, not somewhere where NT bullying is replicated. But that's easier said than done isn't it? And it obviously doesn't work out as intended all the time. The present instance being one massive case-in-point, I'm sorry to say.

As to the parts you saw fit to bold: I think that's all well-and-good except for the word "encourage" , which was a bloody stupid.word to use  We permit these things, we tolerate these things  because the alternative would be a lot worse, but it's to be hoped that they don't completely displace constructive discussion, isn't it? Or else what the heck is the point?

In practice, actual bullying has occured on I2, especially in the "good old days" . The  "wrath of the community" has sometimes unremittingly fallen  upon one person , not because they didn't "back their wrds" but rther because they had offended other people's sense of morality. People have been driven away by that kind of mob rule.  And people have been driven away by other forms of bullying , and al;so by excessive trolling completely takling over the board. Sometimes the culptiits have been reluctantly  banned for the sake of preserving the community. And you're right in what you often say : there's been no consistent policy on this . There's no policy at all as such.  It's generally done as a last resort, once a situation becomes intolerable, but that's very subjective, isn't it?

IMO, no system can ever work as intended for every situation encountered, because systems are rigid and inflexible, whereas life is complex, dymamic and constrantly surprising us. We therefore  need one last freedom: the  freedom to break our own rules rather than commit or perpetuate an atrocity  (Ooh! that's almost to paraphase Orwell's sixth rule on good writing! *chuckle*)

Al, I sincerely hope  this doesn't add up to: Odeon has to ban you.  You'd be a grievous  loss to the community . You've made any number of thoughtful and supportive contributions to this site.  Also, you're right: it would come across hypocrital on his part, give that the trolling was mutual.  But , on the other hand, what you're doing is actually worse than simple trolling and name-calling, and I wouldn't really blame any Admin who came to that conclusion eventually. That it falls to Odeon to make that decision  is a great pity.
 
In view of that, I have one last practical suggestion to make: that Pyraxis take over control of the site, on a tempoary basis, until either these problems with Al are resolved one wayor another,  or else she gives up on trying to resolve them . It seems we pretty much all have confidence in Pyraxis, and  any judgement she might make, even if harsh, would leave a better taste in the mouth.  I, for one, don't want to see Odeon in the position of having to actually ban Al.  I think that would leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth (Odeon included) and we;'d never hear the end of the repercussions. Ofc, that could also result in Odeon being banned, sinbinned or what-have-you. Hmm. Well that could be a laugh.  I hope Odeon is willing to take that risk?



« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 07:27:46 AM by Walkie »

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2017, 08:14:15 AM »
Now, reading through what you wrote here, I don't agree with much of it but most of it rings true. That is to say perhaps, I can understand that people could honestly believe what you have said. A different perspective rather than a line of bullshit.

I do not much care if I am banned or not and you are right it would not only in a way prove every point I made about hypocrisy BUT it would also cut a small and non-growing community down one more.

So.....what is to be done? Well, I am not going to suggest Odeon has to leave or I have to leave. It is not a "this place is only big enough for one of us" type situation. I am not going to pretend that I have any respect for Odeon or that I am cowed by his threats and ultimatums. Likewise, I am sure Odeon does not care for me and would prefer he did not have to see me here OR that I begged and scrapped to see in my decade here.

But assuming he does not get rid of me and I do not leave, then what? THAT is the problem.

I have tried a number of times to either propose a truce or to accept a truce. It ends the same way. Because Odeon honestly sees everything as my issue and he as not having done anything wrong (ever), when it pleases him he will break the truce because the truce only really applies to me because he did nothing wrong and fuck Al because he deserves it. Naturally, I do not share his perception and nor do I care to put up with his bullshit without returning fire.

The key, of course, is us BOTH actively avoiding the kind of shit to stir up the other. That includes subtle bullshit and threats and mod tools and insults and the like. A truce kept. I CAN do that. I prefer not to BUT I am prepared to. I simply do not think he can.

I remember 2015 and before and how it was like to post then. Intensity Squared for me was not a warzone for me then and I am cool just being a regular member. I do not have to like everyone or agree with them. I can actively avoid Odeon. What I will not do is to take shit without return fire.

As to the rules, again, people interpret it differently. Again too, your perceptions of me are different to my perceptions of me. Which of our perceptions is the truth? You see the problem now with changing the rules and with accepting the foundations of my being a bully from which to base other elucidations?
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2017, 09:21:30 AM »
I'm not interested in you defending your bullying with what McJ came up in 2006 or what Dunc wrote on our cover page (I think it was Dunc, anyway), I simply want it to stop. If I have to ban you to make it stop, I will. And honestly, I won't feel particularly bad about doing so.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline odeon

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2017, 09:37:20 AM »
In view of that, I have one last practical suggestion to make: that Pyraxis take over control of the site, on a tempoary basis, until either these problems with Al are resolved one wayor another,  or else she gives up on trying to resolve them . It seems we pretty much all have confidence in Pyraxis, and  any judgement she might make, even if harsh, would leave a better taste in the mouth.  I, for one, don't want to see Odeon in the position of having to actually ban Al.  I think that would leave a bad taste in everybody's mouth (Odeon included) and we;'d never hear the end of the repercussions. Ofc, that could also result in Odeon being banned, sinbinned or what-have-you. Hmm. Well that could be a laugh.  I hope Odeon is willing to take that risk?

I very much doubt it would make any difference to hand over control to Py, and I'm not interested in doing so. I'm NOT about to be driven away by a bully. Besides, trying to resolve anything with Al is utterly pointless. What makes you think it would work this time when all past attempts, including your own, failed? No, he will simply have to back down or face a ban, and I have no problems with living with that decision.
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2017, 10:08:10 AM »
I'm not interested in you defending your bullying with what McJ came up in 2006 or what Dunc wrote on our cover page (I think it was Dunc, anyway), I simply want it to stop. If I have to ban you to make it stop, I will. And honestly, I won't feel particularly bad about doing so.

I have long since stopped caring about your warped version of reality. I do not think it has anything worth humouring.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2017, 10:14:08 AM »
I will not "choose" between Odeon and Al. If anybody walks away thinking they were in the right, it is not going to be a position I support or agree with.

I do not agree with banning Al.

Nor do I agree with characterizing a ban of him as defense from bullying, or saying that he does not make any positive contribution to the site. In the middle of arguments, he has made a point of *also* making positive contributions. The ratio of combative to positive has sucked of late, but it has sucked for Odeon as well.

I can understand Odeon refusing to be driven away from the site by Al's behavior. Though I don't think leaving for a few days to take a break has to be characterized as being driven away. Walking away from an argument to get a clear head is a smart tactic.

Walkie, I'm peeved at you for not realizing that things were actually starting to get better a couple days ago, right before Odeon came back with his ultimatum, and starting things up with Al all over again.

But I also think it's inevitable that it would have happened with somebody. Things are not quite desperate enough yet for the cancer of toxicity to be treated with any kind of lasting cure. All the current options will still do damage to the community. It's all about free will in the end.
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: I really can't believe you all bought it!
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2017, 11:43:51 AM »
Py, I see much of Odeon's ultimatums as akin to chest-thumping. I know this is supposed to be the bit where I genuflect to Odeon or something. But I will quarantine my snark and what not to this thread for as long as others want to have a go. I am happy as I say to do what I was doing 2015. I will not seek Odeon out for argument or endorsement.

I have said a few times that I do not expect he will keep a truce but I will do my bit to make it easy for him to do so. It will not take much to spoil that nor to keep it. But I expect Odeon will choose the former.

That is my commitment and on record. You can hold me to that. I know you are making an effort and I am not that unreasonable not to try too.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:55:55 AM by Al Swearengen »
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch