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Offline Almighty Kek

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2017, 11:53:36 AM »
Democracy at its finest.

The thing you don't seem to understand about the US constitution and laws is that we look at all the fucking horrible mistakes that Europe makes, and we LEARN from them.

We saw how the Nazis used democracy against itself and we rightfully decided that we didn't want that happening here.

In our case the communists were the real threat because the American Nazi party imploded in the late 1930's.

Offline Lestat

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2017, 01:08:02 PM »
It makes all the difference HOW they intend upon the destruction of the US govt.

If it is by political mean, or at least, non-violent means of doing so then I see no reason they ought to be prevented from making the attempt. Provided  they do not resort to  employing violence or coercion then IMO they have the right to try. I don't see them getting very far, and quite obviously the US government is going to resist. But on both sides, provided the absence of violence the it is in the interests of democracy for groups to be able to attempt to turn hearts and minds and to bring down a government if they were capable of gathering sufficient followers for their cause to have that degree of capability.

On some level, this ought to serve as safeguard against tyrants, with such attempted non-religious, thinking (whether or not poorly, this is irrelevant, if they do not do so sufficiently well to begin with then they are going to fail) movements of course failing if they lack justification enough for their cause to pick up sufficient momentum to succeed. It strike me, that by simply resorting to declaring such movements outlaws, this is cowardice and demonstrates that the government of the US, or anywhere else in a similar situation that they lack the scrap of spine needed to turn and face their accusers down.

Do I give a damn about the communist party ? no, I really don't. But the underlying principle I outlined above, yes,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline Almighty Kek

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2017, 01:53:11 PM »
^^^ Do you eve read the crap you write??

You thinks it's ok for undemocratic forces to use democracy against itself to bring it down and replace it with totalitarianism??

I hope you like living in a Gulag, or the taste of Arab cock as you bow down to Mecca 5 times a day.

Offline Jack

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2017, 04:55:54 PM »
Outlawing the communist party is in conflict with freedom of association.

No it isn't. The communist party has the stated goal of destroying the US government.

You can't assemble for that reason any more than you san shout fire in a crowded theater.
Actually they can assemble and they do. It reads like fluff. 'The communist party should be outlawed'? What the crap is that? Thanks for the advice code 842. Seems more like a scare tactic to keep the labor unions under thumb at the time.

Offline Almighty Kek

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2017, 04:59:18 PM »
It has nothing to do with labor unions.

FFS, have you ever read a history book?? Communism destroys every society that it gets ahold of.

Venezuela is the latest victim.

Offline Jack

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2017, 05:26:23 PM »
It has nothing to do with labor unions.

FFS, have you ever read a history book?? Communism destroys every society that it gets ahold of.

Venezuela is the latest victim.
Not touting communism. It's one thing for the US government to acknowledge certain domestic groups as enemies of the state, which it does. Though it's a different matter to criminalize the existence of the group or the association to them.

Offline Almighty Kek

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2017, 05:44:58 PM »
It has nothing to do with labor unions.

FFS, have you ever read a history book?? Communism destroys every society that it gets ahold of.

Venezuela is the latest victim.
Not touting communism. It's one thing for the US government to acknowledge certain domestic groups as enemies of the state, which it does. Though it's a different matter to criminalize the existence of the group or the association to them.

Can you name a single case of communist parties sharing power in a peaceful way in a parliament or other elected body??

It's an ideology that has all the answers, therefore doesn't need to listen to anyone else or share power.

Marxism is a social/political virus that is 100% fatal to society, if you don't kill it, it will kill you, quite literally in many cases.

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2017, 06:33:34 PM »
It has nothing to do with labor unions.

FFS, have you ever read a history book?? Communism destroys every society that it gets ahold of.

Venezuela is the latest victim.
Not touting communism. It's one thing for the US government to acknowledge certain domestic groups as enemies of the state, which it does. Though it's a different matter to criminalize the existence of the group or the association to them.

Can you name a single case of communist parties sharing power in a peaceful way in a parliament or other elected body??

It's an ideology that has all the answers, therefore doesn't need to listen to anyone else or share power.

Marxism is a social/political virus that is 100% fatal to society, if you don't kill it, it will kill you, quite literally in many cases.
Again, not touting communism. Communism played a key role in the organization of labor unions which were peaking in membership and picketing like mad at the time of this code. It's so broadly scoped it reads like an idea rather than legistation. Still there's nothing in it that wasn't secured by the Taft Hartley act almost ten years earlier.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 06:35:24 PM by Jack »

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2017, 08:20:54 PM »
Whilst it might be able to work if everybody genuinely believed in the ideals touted by communism and actually did proceed accordingly, IRL it just isn't going to happen, and it will indeed poison any society it infects; because the problem is that even if 98% of those partaking of a benevolent ideology, do follow it faithfully and conduct themselves well, it only takes that 2% where there is a power structure, to be the ones who will make it a priority to worm their filthy ways into it and burrow in like a tick, sucking from the lifeblood of a nation and defaecating lies, propaganda and the germs of greed and hunger for power into the wound.

And it always the worst of the lot that head straight for the places of power, or 'behind the throne' if a decent human being does get into power, trying to sway them, because power is a corrupting influence when most get a taste of too much, and even more, it attracts those who are already corrupt more than it does the human being; IMO thus artificially resulting in the power base of a govt being enriched in power-hungry. freedom hating filth with despotic ambitions, since the positions and posts suited to such things attract the bad apples more strongly than they do the good.

IMO the government of this country cannot be saved, the disease is too entrenched and the only thing to be done is to cut it out like a cancer and after treating the left behind remnant which would in time grow strong again and result in another infestation, replace it with an entirely new, minimalist government, on the lines of having sufficient to run the infrastructure of the country, things like public roads, fire response, NHS, and defense of the country on the international scale, as well as of course, keeping out the bath-dodging koran-smoochers, and do what can be done to further attract trade over and above what we already are (as opposed to arguing over it, in cases such as leaving the EU to wallow in its own corruption, and there being all sorts of utterly moronic disputes about 'whether britain should be 'allowed' to freely trade with the EU mainland, spoken as if doing any other thing than not standing in the way of peoples's trading is something for which there even ever COULD legitimately or sensibly be done, as though NOT 'permitting' such freedom of trade was something which should be tolerated rather than dismissed out of hand as wrong, and as the purely bureaucratic wrongheaded garbage such policies must by their nature be)

A very liberal, progressive model of as close to an anarchy as is practical; featuring a bare-bones governmental infrastructure, just enough to maintain the functioning of the countries vital parts, such as electricity generation and distribution, accountable to the people, run by the people and for the people. And the complete abandonment of any pursuit of any man for a victimless 'crime', because without a victim there can be no crime perpetrated. Those already punished                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          i                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          n some way for a victimless 'crime' retroactively and universally freed, if incarcerated and compensated whether or not incarcerated.

                                                                                                                                                               
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2017, 09:22:21 PM »
Did you doze off in that big text gap right there?  :zoinks:
:gopher:

Offline odeon

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 12:16:44 AM »
Democracy at its finest.

The thing you don't seem to understand about the US constitution and laws is that we look at all the fucking horrible mistakes that Europe makes, and we LEARN from them.

We saw how the Nazis used democracy against itself and we rightfully decided that we didn't want that happening here.

In our case the communists were the real threat because the American Nazi party imploded in the late 1930's.

I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there. :GA:
Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Offline Lestat

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 02:25:50 AM »
No, well possibly but that isn't the reason its there, been having whitespace like that appear in other posts elsewhere too.
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline DirtDawg

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 11:51:24 AM »

Do "we"  think that President Trump is somewhat congruent to Nazis?

I would like to explore the evidence. please.
Confucius: A man who has mosquito land upon testicles finds a way to solve problems without violence. (Surely, a modern bastardization of TeH Master)

Ghandi: Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.

The end result of life's daily pain and suffering, trials and failures, tears and laughter, readings and listenings is an accumulation of wisdom in its purest form. (from My heart to You! Never stop learning!)

Offline Lestat

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 11:58:43 AM »
I would not make quite such a direct comparison. Trump doesn't have the same degree of appreciation for liberty, freedom and respect for people's rights.

At least hitler REALIZED what he was up to would be perceived negatively if discovered and thus made attempts to hide his deeds. Trump either doesn't give even that size of a shit, or he is simply too stupid to comprehend it, because he is, quite simply (and quite simple) a fucking cretin.
Beyond the pale. Way, way beyond the pale.

Requiescat in pacem, Wolfish, beloved of Pyraxis.

Offline Jack

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Re: Article 50 US code 842
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2017, 04:20:45 PM »
It has nothing to do with labor unions.

FFS, have you ever read a history book?? Communism destroys every society that it gets ahold of.

Venezuela is the latest victim.
Not touting communism. It's one thing for the US government to acknowledge certain domestic groups as enemies of the state, which it does. Though it's a different matter to criminalize the existence of the group or the association to them.

Can you name a single case of communist parties sharing power in a peaceful way in a parliament or other elected body??

It's an ideology that has all the answers, therefore doesn't need to listen to anyone else or share power.

Marxism is a social/political virus that is 100% fatal to society, if you don't kill it, it will kill you, quite literally in many cases.
Again, not touting communism. Communism played a key role in the organization of labor unions which were peaking in membership and picketing like mad at the time of this code. It's so broadly scoped it reads like an idea rather than legistation. Still there's nothing in it that wasn't secured by the Taft Hartley act almost ten years earlier.
Did I kill the conversation? Am probably purposely being annoying, because it's possible for a person to both agree and disagree with something based on practice vs principle. It's annoying anyone would agree with this in principle today. The communist foothold in the US during the 50's was firmly planted in the labor unions and this code granted the government the power to force communist leadership out of unionized groups. At the time, considering a third of US citizens were unionized, in practice that may have been very important. It's not anymore, so right now the principle wins. It's unconstitutional and there's currently no reason to deny the rights of the whole, when there's other laws in place to deal with those who forfeit their rights as individuals.