Author Topic: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.  (Read 2292 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2017, 06:00:56 PM »
Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.

Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.

Well, this wasn't about you.
Of course it's about me. It's about me and my right to vote without violent retribution. It's about my right to peaceful assembly without criminals who stop me from hearing or being heard. It's about my right to live in my home without it being burned as a consequence of someone else being attacked. It's about my right to speak my mind without being murdered for it. It's about my right to say, people who do such things are not activists or protestors; they are violent terrorists who should be locked away from society and I have no patience for the defensive reasoning for anyone who would do these things to me.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 07:31:37 PM by Jack »

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2017, 07:36:59 PM »
Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.

Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.

Well, this wasn't about you.
Of course it's about me. It's about me and my right to vote without violent retribution. It's about my right to peaceful assembly without criminals who stop me from hearing or being heard. It's about my right to live in my home without it being burned as a consequence of someone else being attacked. It's about my right to speak my mind without being murdered for it. It's about my right to say, people who do such things are not activists or protestors; they are violent terrorists who should be locked away from society and I have no patience for the defensive reasoning for anyone who would do these things to me.

Agreed
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

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Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

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Offline Walkie

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2017, 01:09:53 AM »
What gets me about about these kind of clashes is that almost everbody seems to assume that all the fascists are white, thus giving groups like AntiFa a sort of get-out-of-jail free card wrt to fascist tendencies.  They support black people's rights don't they? How can they possibly be fascist?

Here's the definition of Fascism from Wikipedia:
Quote
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce
I think that pretty neatly sums up the aims of rather a lot of radical people, these days, especially the Muslim extremists such as ISIS. 

In addition, you might note that the radical Muslims are antisemitic and homophobic in the extreme, just like their Christian fundamentalist brethren.  I  find it hard to see any significant difference at all between them and the Nazis. You only need to substitute "doctrinal purity" for "racial purity" , Mohammed for  Hitler  etc. and you've got a perfect match.   Fascism, unfortunately,  is rooted in human nature, and has bugger-all to do with the colour of your skin.

The right to free speech- even for fascists- needs to be preserved,at every cost. Otherwise, "You're next" as they say.  It follows that nobody has the right to attempt to violently suppress some other point-of-view , however loathsome. When you start doing that , you become the enemy that you think you're fighting against .
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 01:18:16 AM by Walkie »

Offline odeon

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2017, 02:46:04 AM »
Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.

Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.

Well, this wasn't about you.
Of course it's about me. It's about me and my right to vote without violent retribution. It's about my right to peaceful assembly without criminals who stop me from hearing or being heard. It's about my right to live in my home without it being burned as a consequence of someone else being attacked. It's about my right to speak my mind without being murdered for it. It's about my right to say, people who do such things are not activists or protestors; they are violent terrorists who should be locked away from society and I have no patience for the defensive reasoning for anyone who would do these things to me.

So the white supremacists are victims?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2017, 02:54:22 AM »
What gets me about about these kind of clashes is that almost everbody seems to assume that all the fascists are white, thus giving groups like AntiFa a sort of get-out-of-jail free card wrt to fascist tendencies.  They support black people's rights don't they? How can they possibly be fascist?

The white supremacists who started this mess are--surprise--white. In ideology, they are Nazis, not fascists. I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2017, 04:52:56 AM »
What gets me about about these kind of clashes is that almost everbody seems to assume that all the fascists are white, thus giving groups like AntiFa a sort of get-out-of-jail free card wrt to fascist tendencies.  They support black people's rights don't they? How can they possibly be fascist?

Here's the definition of Fascism from Wikipedia:
Quote
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce
I think that pretty neatly sums up the aims of rather a lot of radical people, these days, especially the Muslim extremists such as ISIS. 

In addition, you might note that the radical Muslims are antisemitic and homophobic in the extreme, just like their Christian fundamentalist brethren.  I  find it hard to see any significant difference at all between them and the Nazis. You only need to substitute "doctrinal purity" for "racial purity" , Mohammed for  Hitler  etc. and you've got a perfect match.   Fascism, unfortunately,  is rooted in human nature, and has bugger-all to do with the colour of your skin.

The right to free speech- even for fascists- needs to be preserved,at every cost. Otherwise, "You're next" as they say.  It follows that nobody has the right to attempt to violently suppress some other point-of-view , however loathsome. When you start doing that , you become the enemy that you think you're fighting against .

I agree entirely.

Any extremist or fundamentalist group does not have to will if given enough power and influence and if left unchecked, is absolutely a danger.

I personally think that equating Neo Nazis to the Nazis on any quantifiable metric is going to fail. BUT that does not mean that just because they only number 3000-5000 in the US, that they are beneath notice or justified or worthy of condemnation. Absolutely they are.

So is Antifa. In fact, I believe that the fact that the Antifa crowd "seem" to get a free pass for much of what they do, by the press and the Democrats, makes them more emboldened and dangerous than New Nazis.

Political position or nationality or cultural heritage or race or gender or religion ought NOT be the thing that gives an extremist group a free pass or an excuse.

I blame in a large part Progressive positions in a large part for this. The Cultural Marxist the Progressive Stack. It allows people like Antifa and Black LivesMatter to do terrible things with a certain amount of downplaying or misdirection of blame. All because they are on the "right side" of the political chasm, or because they chant "Progressive slogans".

No, they are just bad. They need to be thoroughly denounced by the Democrats in the US and the Press. Apart from the Neo Nazis themselves and their associated white Supremacy groups, there is no one who is not distancing themselves from these people. No one likes them or gives cover to them.

Any of these groups if given enough power will push their divisive and authoritarian points of view. They will tell me what Gods I must pray to and in which way or what who I can be friends with or whom I can love or trust or what point of view I must adhere to AND under threat of punishment if I do not. I do not want ANY of it.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2017, 05:20:46 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2017, 05:24:37 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

That says equivalency to me
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline odeon

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #68 on: August 22, 2017, 12:01:03 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #69 on: August 22, 2017, 12:01:48 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

That says equivalency to me

Yeah, let's protect the poor, misunderstood Nazis! :arrr:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Jack

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #70 on: August 22, 2017, 04:28:58 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
Don't think so. The victims that day were liberty, society and all of the millions of peaceful people who aren't either of them.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2017, 04:34:35 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

That says equivalency to me

Yeah, let's protect the poor, misunderstood Nazis! :arrr:

Being that NO ONE here has supported or not condemned the Neo Nazis, in what rational and reasonable way did you arrive to the conclusion that ANY of us were "protecting the Nazis".

Try spelling it out because it looks pretty silly from this vantage point.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:06:55 PM by Al Swearengen »
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2017, 04:42:36 AM »
So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.

I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.

There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
Don't think so. The victims that day were liberty, society and all of the millions of peaceful people who aren't either of them.

Yes. I agree. Two hateful groups trying to start trouble and violence. The end result is violence and the distraction and intimidation from any debate or discussion on differing opinions. Any people there to support the statues remaining are seen as "with the Nazis" and those wanting to protest the statues are seen as Antifa. Those witness but not involved in the violence are likely not so keen to join in such rallies or publicly debate these issues.

Both sides (groups and ideological positions) are poison to society.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Icequeen

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2017, 08:10:54 AM »
...and then the Nazi's went to Boston. Where a "welcome" party awaited.



I think the brave 12 or 20 of them stayed about a whole half an hour or so.

The best way to troll a Nazi/KKK march.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqbVbGFl2PI

Offline Jack

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Re: Governor McAuliffe is officially a badass.
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2017, 06:40:35 PM »
...and then the Nazi's went to Boston. Where a "welcome" party awaited.
That photo doesn't even do justice to the size of the crowd. It was estimated at 40,000.