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Author Topic: Trump is functionally retarded  (Read 23349 times)

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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #270 on: September 25, 2017, 04:40:31 PM »
Is there even such a thing as a politician who makes it to the top that isn't an amoralistic piece of shit?

Nelson Mandela maybe?  :dunno:

He was a puppet of the Soviet Union an a staunch enemy of the West. He supported terrorist activities throughout the world.

Offline Icequeen

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #271 on: September 25, 2017, 05:19:12 PM »
Is there even such a thing as a politician who makes it to the top that isn't an amoralistic piece of shit?

Doubtful. It's like marriage, you pick the amount of evil you can live with.

Offline Walkie

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #272 on: September 26, 2017, 01:37:47 PM »
Is there even such a thing as a politician who makes it to the top that isn't an amoralistic piece of shit?

Ghandi?

But that's an extremely rare event  granted. You're fighting the principle of "scum rises" along with that of  "power corrupts"

That's the most compelling argument in favour of anarchism IMO. If there isn't any top tier , no huge concentration of centralised power, then there's nowhere much for the scum to rise to. They'd  have to settle for just lording it over their family. Not nice, but not near so destructive overall.   

Offline Walkie

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #273 on: September 26, 2017, 01:45:33 PM »
PS Before you point out the obvious flaw- - it would have to be left wing  Anarchism ofc , not that weird idea of capatliist Anarchism , or else the scum would just lord it over business empires   :apondering:...much like they do already

Ok. That's the World put to rights now. I'll toddle off to some other thread  :autism:

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #274 on: September 26, 2017, 02:38:22 PM »
Is there even such a thing as a politician who makes it to the top that isn't an amoralistic piece of shit?

Ghandi?

A racist with some pretty odd quirks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWRTpajz_xk

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #275 on: September 26, 2017, 02:42:42 PM »
PS Before you point out the obvious flaw- - it would have to be left wing  Anarchism ofc 

Please! That's just code for Marxism.

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #276 on: September 26, 2017, 03:32:28 PM »
PS Before you point out the obvious flaw- - it would have to be left wing  Anarchism ofc , not that weird idea of capatliist Anarchism , or else the scum would just lord it over business empires   :apondering:...much like they do already

Ok. That's the World put to rights now. I'll toddle off to some other thread  :autism:

The phrase "left wing" does not make something automatically good and wholesome in the same way saying "right wing" does not make something bad. Of course, visa versa too. Neither political ideology is inherently more moral. It is like religion. It depends entirely on how fundamental and extreme and authoritarian the method of implementing the ideology. People get too caught up trying to promote their political preferred ideology as the bastion of moral principles and the other camp as being the bastion of evil whereby all the elements of that ideology are exaggerated (if not transformed to a perverted form) of fundamentalist authoritarianism.

The truth is that they are both as good and bad as each other.
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Offline Walkie

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #277 on: September 27, 2017, 06:49:29 AM »
PS Before you point out the obvious flaw- - it would have to be left wing  Anarchism ofc 

Please! That's just code for Marxism.
Nope. Marxism and Anarchism are two different things...as my Marxist comrades reliably inform me  :LOL:

Me I don't think Marxism can work without a good side-helping of Anarchism, and neither can Anarchism work without a good side-helping of Marxism. Besides,  Marx himself comes across as very anti-authoritarian to me.

But what do I know? or you.?i'm sure neither of us can claim to be experts. I just think what I think . And I'm not willing to tow any party line, unless I'm thoroughly convinved of it's truth...well, aside from being willing to allow those who care very much about  categorising and labelling thing have the last say regarding  categories and labels
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 06:53:07 AM by Walkie »

Offline Walkie

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #278 on: September 27, 2017, 07:24:35 AM »
PS Before you point out the obvious flaw- - it would have to be left wing  Anarchism ofc , not that weird idea of capatliist Anarchism , or else the scum would just lord it over business empires   :apondering:...much like they do already

Ok. That's the World put to rights now. I'll toddle off to some other thread  :autism:

The phrase "left wing" does not make something automatically good and wholesome in the same way saying "right wing" does not make something bad. Of course, visa versa too. Neither political ideology is inherently more moral. It is like religion. It depends entirely on how fundamental and extreme and authoritarian the method of implementing the ideology. People get too caught up trying to promote their political preferred ideology as the bastion of moral principles and the other camp as being the bastion of evil whereby all the elements of that ideology are exaggerated (if not transformed to a perverted form) of fundamentalist authoritarianism.

The truth is that they are both as good and bad as each other.

Well I don't believe that anyone, is inherently "evil" , really.  But I do very much believe that some forms of social systems will inevitatably screw people over in increasing numbers , to an increasing degree, untli they finally cause such an almighty train-wreck that they  eventually die a natural death, along with much of the population.  That's no more "evil" in intent than a hurricane, that's just the way it works. (and that's a paraphrase of Marx, ofc)

One very good friend of mine was a raving Tory . He had a "right-wing head, and a left wing-heart" I liked to say.  I surely didn't  hold his political views against him.  But over the course of decades, that heart of his pulled him further and further to the left inch-by-inch. He had a big interest in economics, and he cared very much about people, not en masse, but on an individual level. He couldn't help but notice that quite a number of the people he cared about were being screwed over over by right-wing economics, even including himself towards the end.

I can't tell you his present view, because he's  dead now. But that's the story as far as it goes.

I don't think that moral principles come into politics much at all, not on either side. Some people get much too hung-up on demonstratiiing that they, as an individual,  are more moral than the next guy, bugger all the laws of cause and effect. It's enough to put a body off any ideology  if they  let it get under their  skin. 

Same as religion, like you say. But it doesn't follow that all ideologies are equally right, nor equally wrong. 

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 07:28:43 AM by Walkie »

Offline Walkie

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #279 on: September 27, 2017, 07:51:34 AM »
Is there even such a thing as a politician who makes it to the top that isn't an amoralistic piece of shit?

Ghandi?

A racist with some pretty odd quirks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWRTpajz_xk

Yep watched it , Scap, There's some really sad shit in there. And calling Ghandhi "Mahatma" is pretty damned silly, granted.

But it still looks to me he's somebody who fought for some very important values, and who managed not to be corrupted by success  (which is surely not to say he was't already corrupt in some ways, just like the rest of we humans)

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #280 on: September 27, 2017, 09:47:34 AM »
Nope. Marxism and Anarchism are two different things...as my Marxist comrades reliably inform me  :LOL:

They're either ignorant or lying to you. Marxism came out of the early anarchist movements of the mid 19th century. Carl Marx was an attendee of the First International.

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Me I don't think Marxism can work without a good side-helping of Anarchism, and neither can Anarchism work without a good side-helping of Marxism.

You should've ended it there. Marxism has never worked, nor will it ever work, that's by design. It will always murder its own citizens and leave them destitute. You need to read Animal Farm.

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Besides,  Marx himself comes across as very anti-authoritarian to me.

Only if you take him at face value and don't see through the deceit of his philosophy. Mikhail Bakunin saw through the flaws in Marx's proposals and called him out on it.

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But what do I know? or you.?i'm sure neither of us can claim to be experts.

No, but at least I'm educated on the subject, whereas you don't seem to have an understating of the history of Anarchism and Marxism.

Offline Walkie

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #281 on: September 27, 2017, 12:09:30 PM »
Nope. Marxism and Anarchism are two different things...as my Marxist comrades reliably inform me  :LOL:

They're either ignorant or lying to you. Marxism came out of the early anarchist movements of the mid 19th century. Carl Marx was an attendee of the First International.
They're certainly not ignorant, and that's not a great argument. The First International was far from being an exclusively Anarchist thing.
Besides that, I think they're very careful to distance themselves  from Anarchism.  Looks like the schisms that developed during the Russian Revolution are still smouldering :(.   Oh! And I dunno about the rest of the World, but here in Britain we still have people who think they're Anarchists  just because they act like jerks, listen to  Punk Rock and wear badass T-shirts :facepalm: Can't really blame them for wanting to dissociate from that.


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Me I don't think Marxism can work without a good side-helping of Anarchism, and neither can Anarchism work without a good side-helping of Marxism.

You should've ended it there. Marxism has never worked, nor will it ever work, that's by design. It will always murder its own citizens and leave them destitute. You need to read Animal Farm.

I have. And it's a critique of Stalinism. Given that you're so very well read,  I can't believe that you really think that Stalinism is the same thing as Marxism. ...especially nor coming from the stance that Marxism is the same thing as Anarchism. Was Stalin an Anarchist?  :LOL:

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Besides,  Marx himself comes across as very anti-authoritarian to me.

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Only if you take him at face value and don't see through the deceit of his philosophy. Mikhail Bakunin saw through the flaws in Marx's proposals and called him out on it.

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But what do I know? or you.?i'm sure neither of us can claim to be experts.
No, but at least I'm educated on the subject, whereas you don't seem to have an understating of the history of Anarchism and Marxism.
Sadly you've done bugger-all  convince me that your understanding of the history is anything to be admired. Which is a shame. I wouldn't mind learning from you, otherwise.  Was your boast of being "educated on the subject" pure hot air ? or were you talking out of your arse for the lolz? (given I was taking the subject absurdly seriously , for this board, and this thread, as i readily confess!)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 12:11:30 PM by Walkie »

Offline Icequeen

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #282 on: September 27, 2017, 12:46:01 PM »
Around here the right are normally the bible thumping, serious, childless pro lifers..."I never inhaled when I tried weed"...judgemental fucks that want to tell the rest how to live their lives.

"We worked hard, obeyed our parents, went to church every Sunday, and no one in our family ever turned out gay...and IF they did, they prayed real hard and were cured...or became celibate".

Their view of the left is akin to...that we are lazy godless, gay hippies getting stoned, drunk, and running naked in the moonlight laughing, and having too much sex.

I don't want to stereotype them, and I hope it's different elsewhere...unfortunately I am in a "religious right territory" and this seems to be about 85%. 

I'm not saying one's totally right and the other's totally wrong...I'll just say that those with a board stuck up their ass need to mind their own, stop trying to "save" me, and keep off my lawn...they make my plants wilt.



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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #283 on: September 27, 2017, 01:21:42 PM »
Is there even such a thing as a politician who makes it to the top that isn't an amoralistic piece of shit?

Nelson Mandela maybe?  :dunno:

He was a puppet of the Soviet Union an a staunch enemy of the West. He supported terrorist activities throughout the world.

Does the name Joe Slovo mean anything to you?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 01:25:29 PM by Genesis »

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Trump is functionally retarded
« Reply #284 on: September 27, 2017, 02:19:34 PM »
They're certainly not ignorant,

Then they're dishonest, possibly with themselves, trying to convince themselves of a coherent history that never happened but still dishonest. This is always the case with ideologues, they need a sanitized history.

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The First International was far from being an exclusively Anarchist thing.

Of course not, it was a coalition of different groups, but in the first International Congress, they were the largest faction.

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Besides that, I think they're very careful to distance themselves  from Anarchism.

This was certainly the case at the end of the first International and the beginning of the second, Bakunin's faction was driven out by the Marxist faction. In the 21st century though, that history has been forgotten and many on the far left use both labels.


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I have. And it's a critique of Stalinism. Given that you're so very well read,  I can't believe that you really think that Stalinism is the same thing as Marxism. ...especially nor coming from the stance that Marxism is the same thing as Anarchism. Was Stalin an Anarchist?  :LOL:

It was written as a critique of Stalinism but it can be equally applied to Maoism, Kimism or Castroism. The end result of Marxism is always the same. You have all the power of society concentrated in a few hands and if those people aren't ruthless scum, they will be stabbed in the back by people who are. Every communist regime has slaughtered millions of their own people and enslaved millions of others while driving the population into poverty. The ruling party in China realized this and began to allow some democracy and capitalism. Today their socio-economic system resembles that of Nazi Germany.

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Sadly you've done bugger-all  convince me that your understanding of the history is anything to be admired.

Well, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink, lol!!