Author Topic: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?  (Read 1428 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2016, 10:58:53 AM »
I'd kind of be interested to take the word Muslim out of the picture and then gather any information available on what these dickwads are like as people. For example:

- read somewhere that what's recovered on their laptops is generally 80% porn
- a culture of tea boys who are basically servants and sexual playtoys of military officers

Like what if the rhetoric is changed to "Gangs of armed pedophiles are attempting to overthrow the governments of their countries and impose rule of force. They are attempting to intimidate the rest of the world by random massacres in other countries."

What if that were happening and the members weren't trying to hide behind Islam, which is a red herring and not the most reliable screening filter? Nor is "gun owners" a reliable screening filter. Then what would be the appropriate government response?
There have been studies on the profiles of western islamic terrorists, and the results mean screening filters are improbable. They're predominately naturalized decedents of immigrants, integrated and westernized, islamic converts and religious novices rather than devout, raised as secular or some other religion than islam, educated middle class, over thirty, with stable families. It's entirely possible the rhetoric to fear thy newcomer, the young, poor, uneducated, devout, living in an islamic concentrated area, is a rhetoric propagated by the islamic community. Otherwise, the rhetoric would have to be, fear thy existing typical westernized muslim neighbor.

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2016, 11:09:10 AM »
It's entirely possible the rhetoric to fear thy newcomer, the young, poor, uneducated, devout, living in an islamic concentrated area, is a rhetoric propagated by the islamic community. Otherwise, the rhetoric would have to be, fear thy existing typical westernized muslim neighbor.

How do you figure? There's all sorts of groups who would rather see the finger pointed at young, poor, uneducated, devout Muslims rather than Westernized neighbours. Why would it be the Islamic community themselves? The vast majority of Muslims I've seen talk/write about it are horrified when there's another attack because they know it's going to reflect back on them and put them at risk from average Western individuals striking out at random Muslims in retaliation.
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Jack

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2016, 11:36:50 AM »
It's entirely possible the rhetoric to fear thy newcomer, the young, poor, uneducated, devout, living in an islamic concentrated area, is a rhetoric propagated by the islamic community. Otherwise, the rhetoric would have to be, fear thy existing typical westernized muslim neighbor.

How do you figure? There's all sorts of groups who would rather see the finger pointed at young, poor, uneducated, devout Muslims rather than Westernized neighbours. Why would it be the Islamic community themselves? The vast majority of Muslims I've seen talk/write about it are horrified when there's another attack because they know it's going to reflect back on them and put them at risk from average Western individuals striking out at random Muslims in retaliation.
Agree that's true. Didn't mean to say they're the only ones, but yes, it would make sense for them to do so. Some brand of islamic must be the problem, so easy to make that the one who isn't westernized. It doesn't largely reflect back on the westernized individual when the societal focus isn't really on them. Though like the scum of any group, yes they do reflect poorly on the group as a whole on some level.

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2016, 12:25:28 PM »
It doesn't largely reflect back on the westernized individual when the societal focus isn't really on them.

Sure it does. It's not even just Muslims, Sikhs get mistaken for Muslim, Indians do, etc. The lowest common denominator of ignorant redneck doesn't know better.
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Jack

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2016, 01:45:53 PM »
The lowest common denominator
Every group has them.

Offline Go Piss Up A Rope

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2016, 02:17:17 PM »
Though like the scum of any group, yes they do reflect poorly on the group as a whole on some level.

The problem with this is that when it comes to religious groups, it's the fanatics who have the majority of scripture on their side.

Moderates, on the other hand, have to pick and choose their beliefs, ignoring the worse parts of scripture.

Southern slave holders could quote multiple verses of the bible to back their arguments that god condoned slavery and they were right, the bible clearly supports slavery. The prohibitionists, although they claimed god as an authority for their views, didn't have the backing of the bible for their claims, they had to just make shit up.

Westboro Baptist Church also is a very literal biblical group. They ARE right, god DOES hate fags, the fucking bible says so in clear black and white letters.

The Jihadists are the same, they are the ones who are following the Quran to the strictest letter that they can. They are arguably the TRUE Muslims and the moderates ignore Quranic verses because they aren't insane psychopaths.

All Abrahamic religion is, at it's core, psychopathic non-sense. Yahweh is a tribalistic war god of the Hebrew people and is an insane tyrant. It only follows that the true followers of this god are tyrannical, insane, war-mongering and bloodthirsty.

Terrorism is the natural result of believing on bronze age, barbaric moral codes.
WTF???

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2016, 05:55:22 PM »
Though like the scum of any group, yes they do reflect poorly on the group as a whole on some level.

The problem with this is that when it comes to religious groups, it's the fanatics who have the majority of scripture on their side.

Moderates, on the other hand, have to pick and choose their beliefs, ignoring the worse parts of scripture.

Southern slave holders could quote multiple verses of the bible to back their arguments that god condoned slavery and they were right, the bible clearly supports slavery. The prohibitionists, although they claimed god as an authority for their views, didn't have the backing of the bible for their claims, they had to just make shit up.

Westboro Baptist Church also is a very literal biblical group. They ARE right, god DOES hate fags, the fucking bible says so in clear black and white letters.

The Jihadists are the same, they are the ones who are following the Quran to the strictest letter that they can. They are arguably the TRUE Muslims and the moderates ignore Quranic verses because they aren't insane psychopaths.

All Abrahamic religion is, at it's core, psychopathic non-sense. Yahweh is a tribalistic war god of the Hebrew people and is an insane tyrant. It only follows that the true followers of this god are tyrannical, insane, war-mongering and bloodthirsty.

Terrorism is the natural result of believing on bronze age, barbaric moral codes.

Dead right. I have known a lot of very devout people of different religions and they look at the context of their religion in very good and decent terms. You look at any religion doctrine through a hateful filter and you will get hate and fear.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2016, 06:56:21 PM »
I think something definitely worth thinking on is that IF your family has gone to a country as refugees with precious little after escaping conflicts between their birth country and the host country they were seeking safety in AND if after you were born into this new country you were encouraged to associate with other of your parent's culture rather than that of your birth country, if you lived in areas populated almost exclusively by people of your parent's birth country, if the home country's culture is not embraced but derided, if you maintain strict cultural norms and attitudes of your parent's home country, if you speak there language predominantly around them, all of this well NOT assimilate them into the new culture NOR you even though this is your birth country.

In fact it would be slightly worse for you. For them they still have memories of their homeland and a sense of identity outside of their host country. For you your host country is your home country.

Maybe to handle this lack of identity you rebel and marry the person most stereotypical of your birth country. Maybe you ditch the parents and the tight confines of this imposed foreign culture and immerse yourself in the forbidden, perhaps you hold the parental line or perhaps you are caught in a dangerous vortex of secretly exposing yourself to aspects of the birth country's culture that you feel guilty for and feel a want to pay penance by being seen to be more fundamental and seeking out increasingly more strict and hard line aspects of your parent's culture to "make up" for the transgressions that you feel guilty about?

If you have gay feelings and know it is absolutely taboo how would you shore up this? How would you cleanse your soul and be seen as righteous? If you watch decadent Western porn? If you are drinking or doing drugs? If you enjoy a pork roll as much as the next Western guy? If your secret desires and wishes are in direct opposition to your parent's upbringing and culture. What then?

I can well see how appealing ISIS speaking in your parent's birth language and from the geographical areas that you r parents came from, who are bravely fighting the fights against the culture you have been taught to loathe and in the country that you live, trying to empower you with words that seem to come from a position of authority and even common sense. People who have two things you do not have  pride and a sense of identity.

They won't mourn your passing though, you will be another notch, nothing more.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Jack

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2016, 08:44:46 PM »
Terrorists can't be pigeonholed into a particular demographic; Islamic terrorists are not so different than white Christian terrorists, religious terrorism not so different than political. People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2016, 10:01:01 PM »
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Exactly.
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2016, 12:05:53 AM »
Terrorists can't be pigeonholed into a particular demographic; Islamic terrorists are not so different than white Christian terrorists, religious terrorism not so different than political. People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

I don't entirely agree nor disagree.

The thing is Terrorists and Extremists are monsters. Their hateful rhetoric and poisonous ideology is easy to find similarities in if you substitute the recipient of their actions and hate speech it sounds just as awful and militant.

The problem is that treating all terrorism and terrorist threats with equal weight and equal attention is counter productive.

There was a time that Christmas Right Extremists were probably really bad. The Klu Klux Klan (the militant arm of the Democratic party back in the day) used to lynch and shoot black people. They don't now, for all their nasty hateful speech and racist pandering.  These days they are no better or worse than the Black Lives Matter crowd.

The threats today are the Radical Muslim extremists. There are other real threats like AntiFa and New Black Panther party, but these threats are not yet to the extent, nor have the reach of Radical Muslim extremism.

In the future maybe these threats will fade away and the KKK will rise again, or Skinhead thuggery, or any other terrorist or hate group. At the moment, dispersing equal opposition and attention is probably unwarranted.. Radical Muslim extremism is the main  threat.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 01:40:08 AM by Al Swearengen »
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2016, 08:12:06 AM »
What about mentally ill young men like the guy who shot up the movie theater and the ones in high schools?
People just like to think they can know who the monsters are, but they can't.

Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2016, 08:20:15 AM »
What about mentally ill young men like the guy who shot up the movie theater and the ones in high schools?

What about them exactly?

Are you asking whether the subject of mental health issues is a subject and an issue worthy of discussion unto itself? Are you asking if enough is done with the mentally ill, in America?

What I was discussing was not that, I was discussing the radical Muslim extremists. If you want to talk about people with mental health issues in America, happy to do so I guess, it just was not related.
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch

Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2016, 08:23:47 AM »
I don't know about a furniture attack in Paris, but my middle toe is bruised, probably from stepping on some insignificant thing (a pea?).

Oh, the trials of being a pampered Royal.
A good monarch is a treasure. A good politician is an oxymoron.

My brain is both uninhibited and uninhabited.

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Offline Al Swearengen

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Re: Did you hear about another furniture related attack in Paris?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2016, 09:24:06 AM »
I don't know about a furniture attack in Paris, but my middle toe is bruised, probably from stepping on some insignificant thing (a pea?).

Oh, the trials of being a pampered Royal.

You do have tiny feet  :(
I don't want to hear it. Save your complaints to Odeon. Yes, we had decided to drop hostilities. No, I didnt expect that Odeon would do other than start shit again like he always does
You're not going to stick to "a handful people", are you? That would be stupid.
Damned if I won't respond.
So it's on again & you can lay the blame squarely at his feet. Little passive-aggressive bitch