Author Topic: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.  (Read 777 times)

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Offline Zippo

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SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« on: June 04, 2015, 06:54:26 PM »
Well I have been thinking on this, why you so adamantly reject anytime I bring up racism built into our society.

I will make a comparison with being transgender. Unless you are trans, or know someone who is trans, or decide for some reason to study and investigate being transgender, you are not going to be mindful of discrimination and oppression every day. You are not going to be hypersensitive to it- in fact you do not even need to think about it. You can forget about it...you can live your entire life without having to confront, acknowledge or recognise it.

But if you are transgender the story is different. Its in your face every day with almost every interaction. It affects every aspect of your life from friendships, to education, to employment, to using the bathroom. You see laws pass and really, it doesn't affect much in your daily life...so there is not too much recourse in politics. You struggle with even advocacy- not all LGBT activism represents every trans experience. In fact not all trans people even represent others very well. theres a whole world of self-discovery and self-confidence that has to grow out of vigorously punching back against all the layers of oppression stacked upon you. There are tipping points as well...and what may seem like non-events to some people are HUGE DEALS to someone who is trans.

If I bring up something about being trans and get put down, I am not surprised. Lost out on the suggestion I made about having an "other" option here. For some reason I was immediately compared to someone who I have never met, an apparently overly aggressive person who accused people here of cis discrimination. So it was too inconvenient for a few people here to fathom an other option, and for them the whole idea was scrapped? I dunno what happened.

The thing is, whenever a minority speaks up, there will be a majority to push back or challenge. That is a given. But majority does not mean it is what is right. A majority is just a majority.

I have seen ladies here get put down for bringing up feminism...when, even if not apparent, there is a huge systematic issue that does not value women nearly as much as men, and takes the talents and needs many do have for granted. I never understood this very well until this last year actually. Yes there are inconveniences for typical males as well, but the subtle ingrained devaluation of women and their experiences is so profound it deserves to be examined.

I have learned thus, unless the topic is autie discrimination, I cannot discuss many other forms of oppression here. Everybody has an opinion, but oppression is real. And if people cannot, or will not appreciate that, it is not my responsibility to make them. But I think it is a shame that one has to censor ones own experiences for fear of having your words twisted or being accused of meaning things bizarrely unrelated. If someone has something to say about how they are treated, or how they are valued, they should be able to vent among friends without having to pull out articles and stats to back up their life experience.

With regards to race, I bring it up because I think people value that discussion here very much. I know it needs to be had and I wanted to be a part of that conversation. And sometimes I just plain need to rant. It is overwhelming sometimes...as a visibly black person, the same with being trans, with it being in your face everyday- that is how it is being black. It affects every level...if affects jobs, education, going into a store, walking down the street.

So I have learned, I cannot come here and rant when that becomes too much. I cannot be upset about that, because somehow my anger is offensive. My frustration with that is offensive to others who do not see things as a big deal, or who cannot appreciate that it is REAL for some people. Fine...but I also know many more here listen...or discuss, or care to understand and offer their own perspectives for mutual growth.

Like many people, I could sweep these things under the rug. I could bury it within my subconscious...people are good at that. it is convenient. I did that with being trans. Did that with being black. Did that with a lot of things. Spent a great deal of energy doing that. But after coming out about being trans and autie, I have found I can't let that stuff sit. When people let it sit, it comes out in violence. You don't think about it, and then it all comes up at once and all you can do is tantrum. For your own survival, things have to be looked at...oppression is traumatising. So you have to deal with it. it seemed like dealing with it with friends was ideal.

Oppression is THAT real, and THAT urgent. It kills. It tears people up inside. it brings on mental illness. it destroys families and happiness. It hurts hurts hurts. And it cannot be addressed unless it is looked at...and its not going to be looked at unless someone experiencing that oppression is allowed to vent. Maybe the anger will seem very generalised sometimes, but feedback helps with focusing things. Feedback- not accusations, not lies, not misinterpretations taken as fact. That just adds frustration.

You say you try to provoke me to understand me? Well geez, why can't you just ASK? That seems a lot nicer to ask. If you provoke someone they are going to get angry, and you are not going to get nearly as a concise, representative and well thought out response as you would if you asked. Provocation is not a good way to understand anything beyond what buttons you can push. It doesn't tell you anything about WHY those buttons can be pushed, or what about them being pushed that causes frustration, or even if it was the buttons you were pushing or some other subtle fact such as the observation in the other person that you are trying to provoke them.

I am not a lab rat. I am a human being and you can communicate with me directly.

word hurt, we get it, news flash. this is the internet nobody cares.

we are both a minority in the aspect of being trans, i came out here, nobody cared. i dont talk about opression here because opression isnt applicable in this community. people are all treated equal.
if your a bitch you get slapped like a bitch, the women ask the men for junk pics, (btw parts still have not recieved mine). the men ask for b00bs
shit happens. if you dont like what someone said. deal with it.

that being said, you struck a nerve. call me a hypocrite for telling you not to bitch and then complaining but

being black =/= being trans, i understand you have both "issues" to contend with
but guess what
there not issues

PEOPLE FUCKING JUDGE
its a human condition, and right now im judging you for moronic statements about opression
we live in a free world. we can do what ever the fuck we want
if it defies what is socially acceptable there will be negative conciquences
if it adhiers to what is socially acceptible there will be positive ones

actions and reactions, buddy.
opression is not born of some white rich moron being white and rich.
its born of ignorance.
ignorance is a solvable problem, everyone here knows about the issues you deal with. no one gives a fuck, not because its easy to ignore but because this is a place for people to come and have debates on opinions that matter to the whole community.
being white and rich is not a problem.
i see stereotypes that are true every day about black people, white people, trans people, gay people, people of literally every color have stereotypes.
GUESS WHAT, no one fucking cares. can i drill this into your head enough?
if you care about a stereotype, then prove it wrong, dont adhere to it. simple as that, i know its hard to conceptualise, but with no one going first there will be no progress.
im trans, this was literally one of the first places i came out on, because dispite the dispicable community additudes at time by social standards they are supportive, crule jokes have been made sure, but really they would be made on every fucking post made here any ways. they were supportive in every other way

i am pre-HRT, i am full time, i am out in the community regularly. i get a couple weird looks once in a blue moon, but come on man. im out there. im making people aware and PROVING THEM WRONG.
if your not willing to do that. then quit complaining
because complaining on the internet solves nothing.

your upset that you have to 'not look sketchy' in white rich neighborhoods.
tell ya something bud
i live in a white rich neighborhood. i dont give two fucking shits if a black guy comes by. if your on my property its different
and let me tell you, the last person i escorted off my property at knife point was a schizoid white person. i dont care if your black, i care if your acting sketch.

stop generalising against people like me, for generalising against people like you, because it -does not happen-

                                                         Zippo, Shotgun Surgeon.
if theres bees in the trap im catching them, by the thorax and abdomen. and sanding there stingers down to a rough quill. then i dip em in ink and i scribble a bit, and if the wriggle than i tickle them until they hold still, let me say it again, in my land of pretend, i use bees as a mother fucking pen!

Offline sg1008

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 01:27:22 AM »
First off, if this place was not supportive, I would not be here. No one ever treated me badly for being trans in here--- with regard to intensity I was referring to the matter of an "other" option and being a minority, not to me feeling unsupported about being trans. I guess I thought the example was significant given the supportiveness of this place...that even here- as supportive as people here are- a minority experience can be easily lost.

OBVIOUSLY the people here are supportive or I would leave....and I trust them enough to share my most intimate perspectives and theories, risking making mistakes, risking humiliation, risking regret, etc. Because I trust people here. My opinions have shifted overtime, and will probably continue to shift, and are shifting as we speak. I not only trust many people here, I care about them...and their feedback helps me, even if it seems like it doesn't. Sometimes it takes a month or longer for something to seep in, but it does, and hopefully shows itself in my language.

You keep saying nobody cares, but that is not true. I at least care. Maybe YOU don't care.

Oppression born of the same/similar history is relatable across the spectrum given its similar genesis, context, and purpose. At least that is my current understanding, and it helps to put things in another context when you are trying to get a point across. So I compare the experience of being trans, because that is what I have to work with. I use other examples which I think people will understand better.

I am out and about in the community and not on hormones or anything, so I don't get what you are saying with regards to not being willing to do that.

I'm not upset because my personal feelings are hurt by individuals. I get most upset thinking about oppression. I honestly believe that if ANYONE is being put down, the entire race of humanity suffers on some level. Maybe I am viewing things wrongly...maybe I am misjudging the reality...but this is the logical conclusion I have come to about humanity given our incredible interdependence....our super reliance on one another and on our entire ecosystem.

The chances we will ever be able to meet alien species and travel to other planets are practically zilch given our dependence on this rare oxygenated environment, which was the accidental result of mutated bacteria- the originals of which have all but gone extinct by this point. (...and the idea any other species could visit here is laughable- this is probably as toxic to them as venus is to us.) We are as attached to this earth, this ecosystem, and to each other as a fetus is to the umbilical.....so every little thing matters. Every tiny injustice could change the whole course of all of history...and if theres another direction we want things to go, we have to push. Thats our "free will" so to speak. Evolution is driven in large part by preference...so I choose to care, and I am of the community too. And you can whine about me caring, but its whining as much as you think me caring is bitching.

But I'm here with this perspective for a reason, as you are with yours. I don't see anything wrong with that....and I don't see the point in homogeneous attitudes...so this doesn't bother me- or at least I aspire to not let it bother me.

The biggest thing I will have a problem with is my perspective being misrepresented. But as far as disagreements....I am open to them.

I am not generalising people like you. I don't meet a person, find out that they are rich, and then become afraid. I go into a place where I know wealthy people frequent and feel (accurately and logically) that there is a strong likelihood that I might encounter suspicion (based on my experience and knowledge of stereotypes, etc). That likelihood is greater than chance, and when you know this about yourself (whatever the situation), you have to adapt in someway if you're to survive or avoid incident. That is appropriate for the short-term. But in the longterm, the best strategy (I think) is to face those stereotypes head-on and destroy them. So I bitch.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 02:04:27 AM by sg1008 »
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline sg1008

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 02:29:30 AM »
I apologise in advance if I am redundant in some places and repeat words...sporting a fever atm and too groggy to properly edit. Hopefully it answers thoroughly.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Zippo

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2015, 05:50:25 AM »
I am not generalising people like you. I don't meet a person, find out that they are rich, and then become afraid. I go into a place where I know wealthy people frequent and feel (accurately and logically) that there is a strong likelihood that I might encounter suspicion (based on my experience and knowledge of stereotypes, etc). That likelihood is greater than chance, and when you know this about yourself (whatever the situation), you have to adapt in someway if you're to survive or avoid incident. That is appropriate for the short-term. But in the longterm, the best strategy (I think) is to face those stereotypes head-on and destroy them. So I bitch.

the trans part of this, sorted out. gotcha.

but the above quote is in itself hipocrytical
i live in a wealthy area, the property i live on is worth in the millions without counting the houses on the lot
you state that if you go into an area like this, that you will encounter suspicion.
my fucking next door neighbour is black
the house four doors down is rented by a matee man.

my foster parents other house. also worth millions, right next to a first nations reserve.
GUESS WHAT
again, no one fucking cares what the color of your skin is. except as you stated YOU
if you feel like your going to get pegged as a target for racisim. thats on you buddy.
because i sure as hell am not going to opress you. or attack you, or suspect you based on the color of your skin.
so STOP OPRESSING ME.
generalising rich white people as racist opressive pigs effects us just as much as anyone generalising a black person as a rotton thug lyfe good for nothing thief.
you claim to be about this cause and effect shit, caring about equality and opression
yet you contribute to the problem just as much as anyone else.
until your ready to accept your part in this
change your thoughts and actions
and judge people on a person by person basis.
then your in the wrong,
i dont care if your talking about fighting the good fight.
your not. the way you have spoken of people -like me- just proves your contributing to the problem.

the best strategy (I think) is to face those stereotypes head-on and destroy them. So I bitch.

heres the thing though
bitching does not solve the problem
this is not a 'squeeky wheel gets the grease' scenario
this is a get off your ass and get your own damn grease scenario.
im not going to fix your problems for you if you complain about people like me being the cause of your problems
i -expect- you to get off your ass, quit complaining and change the world around you.
bitching takes no effort. complaining solves nothing, its just moving small amounts of air, it is... no not even. its less then wind.
get up and start a movement, you want equal rights? do something to get there
words are easy to ignore, actions are not.
newtons third law.
actions and reactions buddy.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 06:06:56 AM by Zippo »

                                                         Zippo, Shotgun Surgeon.
if theres bees in the trap im catching them, by the thorax and abdomen. and sanding there stingers down to a rough quill. then i dip em in ink and i scribble a bit, and if the wriggle than i tickle them until they hold still, let me say it again, in my land of pretend, i use bees as a mother fucking pen!

Offline sg1008

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »
I don't generalise rich people as racist pigs...and I am certainly not oppressing you by having an open discussion. My skin color does matter to other people, as does my gender, as do my mannerisms....etc.

Communicating, having discussions IS doing something. It takes energy and purpose to engage in a conversation, to be open to different experiences and attitudes, and to integrate new information to get a better understanding of society and people. I don't think when I have a discussion here that we are merely lambasting one another with cliches and political hard-lines...I actually learn shit and grow and I think people take the time to sincerely share things out of their heart of experiences. That is very much doing SOMETHING. Movements are made in the heart-to-hearts (imho).
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Zippo

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2015, 01:16:57 AM »
opinions are like butts, everybody has one
you state constantly people care about your skin color.
they don't, people are people. this 2015, not 1920. i am 100% sure that is, with very few exceptions, fact.
you obviously see things differently
this is going no where. i have made my points. you have stated your personal beliefs, i disagree with them whole heartedly and it upsets me to think someone would be so racist.
you know this, and that this is the current subject of the call out.
you choose to ignore it and go on spewing about how you dont generalise and act in such a way, the evedence is in this very thread.

conversation does little, words are constantly ignored. talking around the table at a starbucks with your friends is not going to solve anything, get out there and activate for your cause. change your life.
heart to heart only counts if you actually touch someones 'heart' your words must resonate with them, and honestly, words have significantly less resonance then an action itself. end of story.


                                                         Zippo, Shotgun Surgeon.
if theres bees in the trap im catching them, by the thorax and abdomen. and sanding there stingers down to a rough quill. then i dip em in ink and i scribble a bit, and if the wriggle than i tickle them until they hold still, let me say it again, in my land of pretend, i use bees as a mother fucking pen!

Offline sg1008

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 02:55:41 PM »
I don't go to starbucks and I don't have friends to sit around with lol

the people I speak with are acquaintances engaged in activism movements online/internationally, or locally in my city. And also friends on here, who are my only ir/regular society friends currently. Sorry if my topic of conversation offends you, but I assure you if it was summarily rejected by everyone on this forum, and/or uninteresting or not engaging at all, I wouldn't bring it up, nor be able to foster any kind of meaningful debate/reflection. If you wish to excuse yourself from that conversation, go ahead. If you wish to put in your two cents and engage the convo, go ahead. I am not a mind reader, it is not possible to understand peoples opinions or the workings of society without communication. The long term goal of fighting segregation was to foster communication and understanding. Desegregation is not merely physical mixing of SES or classrooms, it requires meaningful interactions and conversations to truly affect change. As does anything else really. This is 2015 and racism still exists.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 02:58:49 PM by sg1008 »
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Zippo

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2015, 06:24:04 PM »
I don't go to starbucks and I don't have friends to sit around with lol

the people I speak with are acquaintances engaged in activism movements online/internationally, or locally in my city. And also friends on here, who are my only ir/regular society friends currently. Sorry if my topic of conversation offends you, but I assure you if it was summarily rejected by everyone on this forum, and/or uninteresting or not engaging at all, I wouldn't bring it up, nor be able to foster any kind of meaningful debate/reflection. If you wish to excuse yourself from that conversation, go ahead. If you wish to put in your two cents and engage the convo, go ahead. I am not a mind reader, it is not possible to understand peoples opinions or the workings of society without communication. The long term goal of fighting segregation was to foster communication and understanding. Desegregation is not merely physical mixing of SES or classrooms, it requires meaningful interactions and conversations to truly affect change. As does anything else really. This is 2015 and racism still exists.

yeah, the topic of subject does nothing to offend
the fact im being generalised as being racist for being in a white and rich family does.

you have stated many times you are not being racist
you made constant racist statements
i call you out on it, you deny anything happened
this is going no where.

zippo out.

                                                         Zippo, Shotgun Surgeon.
if theres bees in the trap im catching them, by the thorax and abdomen. and sanding there stingers down to a rough quill. then i dip em in ink and i scribble a bit, and if the wriggle than i tickle them until they hold still, let me say it again, in my land of pretend, i use bees as a mother fucking pen!

Offline sg1008

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2015, 06:49:57 PM »
I never generalised you as being racist. nor did I generalise people as being racist for being white and rich. racism does exist, and even if you don't think it does, I am telling you from experience it does. i guess it is just a matter of whether you believe me or not. you clearly don't believe me, and if you sincerely think I am a liar, then there not much we can do.

i am not going to tell you that you are lying about your neighborhood, etc because I have no reason to assume you are lying or misjudging your situation. but in my situation, my skin color does matter, and it also matters for many people across the country. unless you just think millions of people, including statistics and research, are all lies. at that point it gives your word about the existence of racism about as much credibility as a climate change denier.

the debate is not whether or not racism exists, the debate is how to address racism so that it does not result in violence or inequality. the question is how to establish peaceful relations between HUMAN beings in society. Given that race does matter to so many people, we cannot simply say "forget about race"...because people evidently do not work like that. instead we have to establish some other grounds for solidarity and fraternity. but that isn't going to happen if we constantly call each other liars and dismiss each others experiences.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Zippo

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Re: SG1008, stop being a whiny little bitch.
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 03:14:06 AM »
I never generalised you as being racist. nor did I generalise people as being racist for being white and rich.

yes you do, with blatant blanket statements like this.
and you cant act on phrasing to back you up, you stated this as if you believed it was in your own words accurate and logical.

I go into a place where I know wealthy people frequent and feel (accurately and logically) that there is a strong likelihood that I might encounter suspicion (based on my experience and knowledge of stereotypes, etc).

                                                         Zippo, Shotgun Surgeon.
if theres bees in the trap im catching them, by the thorax and abdomen. and sanding there stingers down to a rough quill. then i dip em in ink and i scribble a bit, and if the wriggle than i tickle them until they hold still, let me say it again, in my land of pretend, i use bees as a mother fucking pen!