'GO HOME' vans to fight immigration

['Butterflies']

They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.

It's a human right here too. That's why illegals are allowed to tax our system. If there were anyway to stop that, we wouldn't even need Obama's promises. People in Europe truly seem to believe their medical is free. That's so weird. Too many takers who never give can bankrupt a system.

Everyone in Britain knows that we pay taxes to support the NHS. On that level, we all know it's not truly free.
However, It is free at point of use.

['Butterflies']

How?

It is free.

We understand that it is funded from taxes

It is still free at the point of use though, regardless of wtherher or not you pay taxes

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean

We have free healthcare in the UK

Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes; they only take from the system, when they could otherwise give. A large influx of illegals means higher taxes for all the legal citizens, in order to care for the illegals. Those people should become legal citizens and pay their share like everyone else.

Im sure most of them would love to be legal citizens. The reason many of them are illegal, is because they can't enter our country legally, or become legal citizens.

[Jack]

I don't understand your point. What does that have to do with   Europeans thinking their healthcare is free when it's not (according to you)?

Oh, sorry, I though you were asking how it's possible immigrants could financially harm your system. I don't know what you mean, according to me; it's not free according to me. I said that's the way Europeans seem to think to me; it's my impression, yes. It's just like the US, only different. If I simply paid my insurance premiums to the government in taxes, it would be the same thing. People who can afford to pay in are expected to, and they to pay the ones who can't. It may seem free to, that's maybe even true for people on government assistance here too. I'm not sure.

[Jack]

Im sure most of them would love to be legal citizens. The reason many of them are illegal, is because they can't enter our country legally, or become legal citizens.

Why not?

[Parts]

How?

It is free.

We understand that it is funded from taxes

It is still free at the point of use though, regardless of wtherher or not you pay taxes

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean

We have free healthcare in the UK

Illegal immigrants don't pay taxes; they only take from the system, when they could otherwise give. A large influx of illegals means higher taxes for all the legal citizens, in order to care for the illegals. Those people should become legal citizens and pay their share like everyone else.

That is somewhat of a myth.  Whether or not they pay taxes on their income depends on if they work for cash or work with fake papers.  If they have fake papers they do pay taxes and social security under what ever name and number they are using which obviously they can not get back.  They also pay sales tax,gas tax, the buildings they live in and the cars if registered get taxed also.  They may not pay as much but to say they pay none is not true. 

[Jack]

I'd like to get back to the original topic a bit. This thread is very interesting to me, because this is the first ever seeing negative propaganda against the middle eastern immigration explosion occurring in the UK over the past decade. It's been my impression, Europeans have a bit of sympathy toward them, so this 'go home' van was quite a surprise. Is there also positive propaganda about you? Is the public generally encouraged to accept them?

[Jack]

That is somewhat of a myth.  Whether or not they pay taxes on their income depends on if they work for cash or work with fake papers.  If they have fake papers they do pay taxes and social security under what ever name and number they are using which obviously they can not get back.  They also pay sales tax,gas tax, the buildings they live in and the cars if registered get taxed also.  They may not pay as much but to say they pay none is not true.

Yes, that's a good point. Are the fake visa papers still that easy? Was thinking it's not that common anymore.

['Butterflies']

Im sure most of them would love to be legal citizens. The reason many of them are illegal, is because they can't enter our country legally, or become legal citizens.

Why not?

Immigration into Britain is controlled. People from outside the EEC cant just set up home in Britain. With the exception of certain countries, I think immigrants need to apply for asylum. If they fail to gain asylum, they have to leave. Many don't leave, and become illegal immigrants.

[Jack]

thanks. Didn't know that. I imagine a lot of war refugees are gaining asylum.

[Adam]

They are taxing our system through using medical services, yes, but over here we pretty much view medical attention as a human right.

It's a human right here too. That's why illegals are allowed to tax our system. If there were anyway to stop that, we wouldn't even need Obama's promises. People in Europe truly seem to believe their medical is free. That's so weird. Too many takers who never give can bankrupt a system.

Everyone in Britain knows that we pay taxes to support the NHS. On that level, we all know it's not truly free.
However, It is free at point of use.

This

[Parts]

That is somewhat of a myth.  Whether or not they pay taxes on their income depends on if they work for cash or work with fake papers.  If they have fake papers they do pay taxes and social security under what ever name and number they are using which obviously they can not get back.  They also pay sales tax,gas tax, the buildings they live in and the cars if registered get taxed also.  They may not pay as much but to say they pay none is not true.

Yes, that's a good point. Are the fake visa papers still that easy? Was thinking it's not that common anymore.

Depending on where you want to work and how close they check them.  Some employers look the other way in order to get cheap labor.

[Adam]

I don't understand your point. What does that have to do with   Europeans thinking their healthcare is free when it's not (according to you)?

Oh, sorry, I though you were asking how it's possible immigrants could financially harm your system. I don't know what you mean, according to me; it's not free according to me. I said that's the way Europeans seem to think to me; it's my impression, yes. It's just like the US, only different. If I simply paid my insurance premiums to the government in taxes, it would be the same thing. People who can afford to pay in are expected to, and they to pay the ones who can't. It may seem free to, that's maybe even true for people on government assistance here too. I'm not sure.

Ah, looks like we both misundersood each other then haha

Nah, I understand how illegal immigrants can harm the system financially.

It was where you said that most europeans seem to think their healthcare is free and that that is strange to you. That's what I didn't understand. I know you don't think it's free - but you seemed to be saying that europeans don't understand that our healthcare is paid by taxes or something. No. It is free. We know that it is paid for by taxes, so in that sense of course it's not free. But as odeon said, technically nothing is free. It is free in the sense that we mean it to be though - in that, even if you don't pay taxes yourself, you still get healthcare without having to pay. In that sense, it is free. We aren't stupid - we know how our healthcare is funded

The point is that ANYONE in this country has access to all the healthcare they need. Regardless of money or insurance or premiums or taxes

[Adam]

I'd like to get back to the original topic a bit. This thread is very interesting to me, because this is the first ever seeing negative propaganda against the middle eastern immigration explosion occurring in the UK over the past decade. It's been my impression, Europeans have a bit of sympathy toward them, so this 'go home' van was quite a surprise. Is there also positive propaganda about you? Is the public generally encouraged to accept them?

Positive propaganda about you? About who?

You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack

There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.

['andersom']

Access to healthcare for all seems to go down the drain here. Now even babies need an ID to get treatment or appointments in some hospitals. WTF. The age where you are obliged to wear an official ID (Passport, European ID card, or Drivers Licence) with you is 14. But if you want medical care, you need it from birth on. Or insurances have the right not to pay.

Clearly an action to prevent illegal immigrants using healthcare.

[Jack]

Positive propaganda about you? About who?

You've definitely not had a clear view of public opinion over here then, Jack

There'a a lot of anti-immigration stuff in europe.

Why would you think I meant me? I was talking about immigration in Europe. I didn't think there was negative propaganda, that's why I said I was surprised to see this, and have never seen anything like it before. I was asking if your media has any positive propaganda toward immigration. What's the word with your media? Is the public encouraged to accept them?