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Author Topic: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf  (Read 2943 times)

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Offline McGiver

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My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« on: June 25, 2013, 04:09:58 PM »
http://www.globalresearch.ca/my-creeping-concern-that-the-nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-is-not-who-he-purports-to-be/5339161

I hate to do this but I feel obligated to share, as the story unfolds, my creeping concern that the NSA leaker is not who he purports to be, and that the motivations involved in the story may be more complex than they appear to be.
This is in no way to detract from the great courage of Glenn Greenwald in reporting the story, and the gutsiness of the Guardian in showcasing this kind of reporting, which is a service to America that US media is not performing at all.
It is just to raise some cautions as the story unfolds, and to raise some questions about how it is unfolding, based on my experience with high-level political messaging.

Some of Snowden’s emphases seem to serve an intelligence/police state objective, rather than to challenge them.

a) He is super-organized, for a whistleblower, in terms of what candidates, the White House, the State Dept. et al call ‘message discipline.’ He insisted on publishing a power point in the newspapers that ran his initial revelations. I gather that he arranged for a talented filmmaker to shoot the Greenwald interview. These two steps – which are evidence of great media training, really ‘PR 101′ – are virtually never done (to my great distress) by other whistleblowers, or by progressive activists involved in breaking news, or by real courageous people who are under stress and getting the word out. They are always done, though, by high-level political surrogates.

b) In the Greenwald video interview, I was concerned about the way Snowden conveys his message. He is not struggling for words, or thinking hard, as even bright, articulate whistleblowers under stress will do. Rather he appears to be transmitting whole paragraphs smoothly, without stumbling. To me this reads as someone who has learned his talking points – again the way that political campaigns train surrogates to transmit talking points.

c) He keeps saying things like, “If you are a journalist and they think you are the transmission point of this info, they will certainly kill you.” Or: “I fully expect to be prosecuted under the Espionage Act.” He also keeps stressing what he will lose: his $200,000 salary, his girlfriend, his house in Hawaii. These are the kinds of messages that the police state would LIKE journalists to take away; a real whistleblower also does not put out potential legal penalties as options, and almost always by this point has a lawyer by his/her side who would PROHIBIT him/her from saying, ‘come get me under the Espionage Act.” Finally in my experience, real whistleblowers are completely focused on their act of public service and trying to manage the jeopardy to themselves and their loved ones; they don’t tend ever to call attention to their own self-sacrifice. That is why they are heroes, among other reasons. But a police state would like us all to think about everything we would lose by standing up against it.

d) It is actually in the Police State’s interest to let everyone know that everything you write or say everywhere is being surveilled, and that awful things happen to people who challenge this. Which is why I am not surprised that now he is on UK no-fly lists – I assume the end of this story is that we will all have a lesson in terrible things that happen to whistleblowers. That could be because he is a real guy who gets in trouble; but it would be as useful to the police state if he is a fake guy who gets in ‘trouble.’

e) In stories that intelligence services are advancing (I would call the prostitutes-with-the-secret-service such a story), there are great sexy or sex-related mediagenic visuals that keep being dropped in, to keep media focus on the issue. That very pretty pole-dancing Facebooking girlfriend who appeared for, well, no reason in the media coverage…and who keeps leaking commentary, so her picture can be recycled in the press…really, she happens to pole-dance? Dan Ellsberg’s wife was and is very beautiful and doubtless a good dancer but somehow she took a statelier role as his news story unfolded…

f) Snowden is in Hong Kong, which has close ties to the UK, which has done the US’s bidding with other famous leakers such as Assange. So really there are MANY other countries that he would be less likely to be handed over from…

g) Media reports said he had vanished at one point to ‘an undisclosed location’ or ‘a safe house.’ Come on. There is no such thing. Unless you are with the one organization that can still get off the surveillance grid, because that org created it.

h) I was at dinner last night to celebrate the brave and heroic Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights. Several of Assange’s also brave and talented legal team were there, and I remembered them from when I had met with Assange. These attorneys are present at every moment when Assange meets the press – when I met with him off the record last Fall in the Ecuadoran embassy, his counsel was present the whole time, listening and stepping in when necessary.

Seeing these diligent attentive free-speech attorneys for another whisleblower reinforced my growing anxiety: WHERE IS SNOWDEN’S LAWYER as the world’s media meet with him? A whistleblower talking to media has his/her counsel advising him/her at all times, if not actually being present at the interview, because anything he/she says can affect the legal danger the whistleblower may be in . It is very, very odd to me that a lawyer has not appeared, to my knowledge, to stand at Snowden’s side and keep him from further jeopardy in interviews.

Again I hate to cast any skepticism on what seems to be a great story of a brave spy coming in from the cold in the service of American freedom. And I would never raise such questions in public if I had not been told by a very senior official in the intelligence world that indeed, there are some news stories that they create and drive – even in America (where propagandizing Americans is now legal). But do consider that in Eastern Germany, for instance, it was the fear of a machine of surveillance that people believed watched them at all times – rather than the machine itself – that drove compliance and passivity. From the standpoint of the police state and its interests – why have a giant Big Brother apparatus spying on us at all times – unless we know about it?
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 04:17:53 PM »
That is of course fully possible. All this is a jungle.

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 04:21:32 PM »
Again I hate to cast any skepticism on what seems to be a great story of a brave spy coming in from the cold in the service of American freedom. And I would never raise such questions in public if I had not been told by a very senior official in the intelligence world that indeed, there are some news stories that they create and drive – even in America (where propagandizing Americans is now legal). But do consider that in Eastern Germany, for instance, it was the fear of a machine of surveillance that people believed watched them at all times – rather than the machine itself – that drove compliance and passivity. From the standpoint of the police state and its interests – why have a giant Big Brother apparatus spying on us at all times – unless we know about it?

This makes a lot of sense. Though, the Big Brother apparatus in Eastern Germany was very invasive, using kids to spy on their own parents. But the fear that you could be watched and punished for what had been heard or seen was huge. So, it did have an effect in itself indeed.

Not on all though.
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 09:30:21 PM »
question everything. mmm yes, :yoda:

whoever wrote that is making money by having an opinion. so, now I'm questioning her.  :laugh:
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 09:46:44 PM »
question everything. mmm yes, :yoda:

whoever wrote that is making money by having an opinion. so, now I'm questioning her.  :laugh:
its Naomi (freak-a-deak) Wolf. Yo!!!
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 09:59:12 PM »
I didn't know you two were so close. :blonde:

Does she like it doggy style?  >:D
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Offline McGiver

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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 10:18:40 PM »
I didn't know you two were so close. :blonde:

Does she like it doggy style?  >:D
we call it wolfie style
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 10:20:28 PM »
Better watch out dude. she might sell your scoup to the press

just sayin'
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 11:16:52 PM »
I do think he had planned this for years. He is not your average whistleblower, no. He has thought this through and knows perfectly well what he is doing.

IMO, his message is just as important regardless.
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 12:51:54 PM »
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 05:52:36 AM »
Trust no one, trust nothing, I suppose.

What I also keep thinking is how fortunate it is that Edward Snowden is attractive and, apparently, charismatic.  I honestly think that there would not have been as positive and supportive a response to a guy who was fat/pimply/balding/awkward.  I think, in fact, such a person would have been more easily dismissed.  Call me cynical.
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 07:43:27 AM »
Kevin Rudd is the new Prime Minister of Australia. I think the most charismatic man in politics for a LONG time. He managed to finally get his position back and oust the person who backstabbed him. I am a big fan. I think he is more honest and trustworthy and competent than any other candidate in Australian politics.
Now would I trust him as far as I could throw him? Not at all. It is all relative.
I don't trust Naomi Wolf either. She is very sexy and smart and meets my interests for both intellect and beauty. In fact her feminist approach is not as radical and bizarre as most Feminists.....but like the Ruddinator, I simply do not trust her by virtue of the pool she swims in. Feminism Theory is a murky fecal quagmire and she is stained by her association. I don't trust her.
She may be right and because of her intellect, I trust that Snowden may well be someone to cast doubt on too.
There we go. I distrust them both. I think they both have agendas
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2013, 07:43:59 AM »
:arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr:  :tinfoil: :yikes: :bint: :tantrum: :soapbox: :ninja: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr:

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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2013, 07:50:13 AM »
Kevin Rudd is the new Prime Minister of Australia. I think the most charismatic man in politics for a LONG time. He managed to finally get his position back and oust the person who backstabbed him. I am a big fan. I think he is more honest and trustworthy and competent than any other candidate in Australian politics.
Now would I trust him as far as I could throw him? Not at all. It is all relative.
I don't trust Naomi Wolf either. She is very sexy and smart and meets my interests for both intellect and beauty. In fact her feminist approach is not as radical and bizarre as most Feminists.....but like the Ruddinator, I simply do not trust her by virtue of the pool she swims in. Feminism Theory is a murky fecal quagmire and she is stained by her association. I don't trust her.
She may be right and because of her intellect, I trust that Snowden may well be someone to cast doubt on too.
There we go. I distrust them both. I think they both have agendas
all that, but the truth is you trust no one.
Just a dig at feminism.
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Re: My sneaky suspicion of Snowden, by Naomi Wolf
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2013, 07:59:33 AM »
Kevin Rudd is the new Prime Minister of Australia. I think the most charismatic man in politics for a LONG time. He managed to finally get his position back and oust the person who backstabbed him. I am a big fan. I think he is more honest and trustworthy and competent than any other candidate in Australian politics.
Now would I trust him as far as I could throw him? Not at all. It is all relative.
I don't trust Naomi Wolf either. She is very sexy and smart and meets my interests for both intellect and beauty. In fact her feminist approach is not as radical and bizarre as most Feminists.....but like the Ruddinator, I simply do not trust her by virtue of the pool she swims in. Feminism Theory is a murky fecal quagmire and she is stained by her association. I don't trust her.
She may be right and because of her intellect, I trust that Snowden may well be someone to cast doubt on too.
There we go. I distrust them both. I think they both have agendas
all that, but the truth is you trust no one.
Just a dig at feminism.

Completely wrong. Sorry McJagger.

I am happy to look at the underlying principles or framework or positions that underpin an argument and then the argument itself.
If you give me a credible statement from the Dalai Lama, I am going to look at it in two ways. Firstly from his position and possible motive or capacity and secondly for what is said. Therefore i will think 'OK great, whatever. This is from the guy who thinks he is a reincarnations of blah, blah, blah. Well meaning nut saying something clever. Very nice." I will not rally behind him and sing his praises but will register it for its own merits.
I would do similar for a troll coming up with a nugget of truth or a conspiracy theorist touching on something inherently valuable.
Someone I trust with history saying cogent and logical things that seem to hold an inherent truth, I will back too.
Even people like that Girlwriteswhat or George Carlin or Christopher hitchens that lay it all out there take it or leave it, I may agree completely with, in part, or disagree with, BUT I do trust for its lack of bullshit.

I do trust mcJagger but not blindly.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap