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Offline "couldbecousin"

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I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« on: April 14, 2011, 07:22:57 AM »
Hi again MCalavera, you stated in the "Useless trivia" thread that you used to be a fundamentalist Christian, and have only been out of that religion
for a year and a few months. Were you raised in it, how did you decide to leave, and do you practice any form of religion today?   :chin:
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Offline Calavera

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 07:56:44 AM »
Hi again MCalavera, you stated in the "Useless trivia" thread that you used to be a fundamentalist Christian, and have only been out of that religion
for a year and a few months. Were you raised in it, how did you decide to leave, and do you practice any form of religion today?   :chin:

Cool idea of a thread, CBC. And good start. :thumbup:

Nothing dramatic, really. Just some simple Greek/Roman Orthodox dude who got sucked into extreme Christianity thanks to some fundamentalist Christian neighbor couple. It was around 5-6 years ago when it all started (can't remember exactly). I was having personal problems with my father, with relatives, with school, with social life, with girls (well, I still have most of those issues actually), along with deep confusion about my identity and my existence, and I think all those are what had led me to "give up and come to Christ" ...

Actually, let me just copy/paste what I wrote on WP (Jan 29, 2011) and just make things more interesting for you to read and much easier for me to give you a satisfying answer. Just keep in mind that I carelessly said I started believing around 10 years ago when in fact it was slightly less than that now that I've given it a good thought.

Anyway, below is the post.

***

Alrighty, for those interested after seeing some of my posts here in this section, here's my post that explains why I'm no longer a believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and why I'm now a secularist (specifically a secular theist/deist). My purpose from this post is to not only explain why I no longer believe but to also show why it's not reasonable to believe in Jesus Christ (or any religion or cult for that matter).

But first let me give a very brief explanation of how I became a Christian at one stage. Basically, I was lost and confused, lacking emotional support and encouragement from anyone around me. Then along came a Christian family (my neighbors) preaching to me the Gospel and giving me CDs and DVDs of Christian stuff for me to watch and listen to. Being a curious guy who was looking for God and religion at the time, I asked them questions about God, the Bible, and Christianity in general ... and they did their best to answer my questions. They had me pray with them. They invited me to their house. They convinced me that they were a loving and peaceful family. They considered me a brother. They gave me a big Bible as a gift. They introduced me to their pastor and to the local church. My family got along with them well. And then I watched "The Way of the Master" series with them. That was when I eventually started to believe in the Gospel. And, thus, I submitted myself to Jesus Christ and put my faith in Him.

The Gospel is one of the most powerful messages that man has ever preached to his fellow man. Whether it's true or not, it is psychologically so powerful that, when described with the right words, can make many intelligent people who are looking for any hope in heaven to take such a message seriously and possibly believe.

What is the Gospel according to Christianity? First of all, the word "Gospel" is an English adaptation of the Greek word for "Good News". It is called the Gospel (Good News) because it is about the supposedly good news that, no matter how badly you've sinned against God and how much you've angered God with your sins and how much you deserve hell, God supposedly loved you so much that He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to this world around 2000 years ago to die on the cross for you and pay the full price for your sins. That way, by putting your faith in the one who died for you, you become saved by grace through faith and become a born again Christian living a life of holiness for God through Jesus by the Holy Spirit that supposedly resides in you once you believe.

When understood properly, it can be so convincing that almost any vulnerable person (regardless of his intelligence) would want to believe such a pleasant message that Jesus Christ died for him and, thus, become a Christian. It gives you a feeling of assurance and security by thinking that God has it all handled for you and that all you have to do is believe that God can save you completely through Jesus Christ alone. You no longer have to try to vainly do good in order to please God and make God see how much you deserve heaven. Christianity, with its Gospel, is unlike any religion out there. And so it's quite unique compared to other religions ... which is why I was so attracted to Christianity and to the main man of Christianity - Jesus Christ. The day I was converted to Christ was one of the best days of my life. It was a day of joy for me. It was like heaven. And the feeling I had at the time was so wonderful and so sincere that it lasted for a while (around a couple of months). Back then, I sincerely believed that Jesus Christ was the only one worthy to be my lord and savior.

And it's not just about the good feeling of having an omnipotent being to completely rely on for my salvation, the whole local church was quite nice and pleasant to me in the beginning, and they made me feel so special (something that I had never experienced before), that it seemed like a big confirmation to me that Christianity can't be but true and that Jesus Christ can't be but God.

It was a great feeling.

Unfortunately, it didn't last forever. In two months, I was already intellectually back to how I was before I professed Jesus Christ. The feeling that one also gets from being high on drugs was already gone. I was already starting to have doubts about my faith. However, I was already deeply rooted within Christainity that, despite everything, I stayed a Christian for quite a few years (around 10 years), preaching the Gospel to the "lost" and passionately defending the faith. Like a typical Christian with autism, I was so into the Bible (supposedly God's written word) that only a select few around me knew more about the Bible than I did. I was into refuting claims of alleged contradictions in the Bible. I was into explaining the message of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to all the cultists I argued with over the Internet. And I had a lot of fun arguing with all the "angry" atheists and seculars out there, arrogantly thinking that they were so lost in their godlessness that they could never convince me of any of their views. I argued with them about evolution, about quantum physics, and about the age of the universe, relying on pure creationist propaganda to support my views. I even typed Christian articles and submitted them to a certain Christian blog site. It was all so much fun to me.

But despite it all, I never truly believed (aside from the first two months as a professing Christian). I had no problem being intellectually dishonest. I had no problem spreading disinformation about evolution and about secular scientific discoveries in general. I had no problem purely relying on the Bible for all my answers to every question and allegation thrown at me for me to answer and respond to. It was all a game to me. And I'm sure that, for many Christian apologists out there, it is also all a game to them. They just don't want to admit it to anyone ... including themselves.

And let's not forget about the burden of having to go to church every Sunday ... or else they start to look down on you and think you're walking according to the flesh instead of the Spirit. Personally, I HATED going to church. It was a chore. Not because I didn't enjoy listening to the pastor preach. But because it was too social for me to handle every single week. Actually, I never was interested in the company of other Christians much. And anyway, they were starting to act like almost any other group of people I've interacted with. They no longer looked "born again" to me. But that's ok. All I wanted, as a Christian, was to read and study the Bible and do a lot of research on evolution, on cults, on secularism, and so on. I just didn't enjoy the social bit much.

Oh, and prayer? That, too, was a chore. I just didn't know what to say to God back when I was a Christian. All the other Christians had no problem knowing what to say to God within a short amount of time, but me? I struggled a lot with prayer that I only ever prayed out loud once in public ... and let's just say that it was the most embarrassing Christian moment in my life.

What else was a problem for me? Right! As a single Christian, I couldn't help lusting for girls. Jesus failed to help me stop lusting (as he promised), so I had to handle this one myself. I tried this and that, but nothing worked. Which really got me depressed. I wanted to convince myself that I was truly "born again" but my lusts were always giving me doubts about my "born again" nature.

Eventually, I just said to myself: STUFF IT! I started reading articles written by atheists, scientists, and scholars about God, science, philosophy, the Bible, etc. I found that many of them made so much sense to me that I finally had my mind open up after all these times and admit to myself that Christianity is nothing but a lie and a waste of time. After being a secular in the closet for a few months, I am now proud to admit to almost every person I know that I no longer believe. It was in the middle of last year (2010) that I stopped being a Christian. Smile

Now, I will list reasons why I no longer believe (in no particular order):

1. There is no conclusive evidence pointing to Yahweh/Jesus being the true God and Creator. Even if this universe could not but have been created by the Creator, what makes you think that Yahweh/Jesus is that Creator? Is it because the Bible tells you so? Or is there a clear sign out there that Yahweh/Jesus is God? If there is, then where is it? I could never find one conclusive evidence. It has always been by blind faith.

2. There is no conclusive evidence pointing to the Bible being God's written word. Not one. There is no advanced scientific knowledge in the Bible that the Jews could not have had access to in any normal way. There is no advanced psychological knowledge in the Bible. There is no advanced mathematics. There is nothing to clearly show that the Bible was inspired by a divine source. Nothing. Prophecies? Don't make me laugh. They're either too vague ... or they count on you to do complicated mathematical equations using numbers that you yourself have to make up. And, no, Jesus didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies perfectly. A lot of stuff had to be made up concerning him in the New Testament. And even then, they couldn't make his character fulfill them all in their writings.

3. Psychology is another reason why I no longer believe. Look at all the psychopaths and the extreme narcissists out there. Psychology tells us that such people lack empathy, compassion for others, and none of them has a clear conscience. Thus, they can never personally change without the assistance of advanced psychological treatments (which have yet to be discovered). So how can God hold them accountable for their deeds if they can't help being the way they are? Sure, within our human societies, we continue to have such people punished if they commit crimes, but that's only so that other people may be protected from them. However, when you think about it, shouldn't God take full responsibility for their actions? After all, they can't help doing the things they do because of who they are by nature. So someone else has to take responsibility for the actions of such disturbed people? Who else should it be other than the omnipotent God himself? Surely, we can't blame a limited human being (who has no power over psychopaths) for such actions! Only God supposedly has the power. So where is he?

4. How can God allow a child to be cut to pieces by a sick man? How can God allow children to die of starvation? How can God allow people to die horrific deaths when disaster strikes? Why the earthquakes? Why the tsunamis? What about the poor animals that end up being slaughtered for our own survival? Why did he make it in a way that we need to eat animal meat in order to function properly and survive? Doesn't God care about any of us? Is this world just a joke to the supposedly loving God? That's another reason why I can't believe that a loving and compassionate God exists. Oh, and free will sounds like an excuse made up by religious theists to explain away the existence of pain and suffering in this world. Yeah, sure, as if humans have the free will to cause earthquakes and tsunamis ...

5. The idea that hell exists is a big indicator that God, who supposedly set it up, cannot be loving and compassionate. Why the hell would such a god create such a nightmarish place for any limited being? Just imagine what it would be like to suffer pain and agony forever and ever. Why not just wish us away from existence if God doesn't like us? If his ego is so big, he can just have us punished temporarily in hell and then wish us away from any form of existence after our terms of divine punishment have been served. But why the need to act like such a sadist? Insecurity? Which brings me to my next point ...

6. Yahweh sounds just like an angry narcissistic human in power! There is nothing divine about his character. When angry, he kills people (including babies and young children and animals). He has narcissistic rages as you can tell from his words in the Bible. He claims to be merciful and forgiving and patient, but his actions often show otherwise. He demands that he be worshiped and even experiences extreme jealousy when other gods are worshiped. Damn! He sounds like a big baby to me! And you call him God?

7. When taken literally, the Bible contradicts current scientific discoveries. If the Bible is from God, then why do the current scientific discoveries contradict what the Bible says about the age of the universe, the age of this planet, the age of mankind, the origins of humans and animals, and so on? What's going on?

And of course, there are far more reasons, like internal contradictions within the Bible (who is Joseph's father?) and other stuff.

And so ... that is why I just cannot believe anymore. It would only make me feel intellectually dishonest by continuing to profess such a blind faith.

Now, I am happier and more comfortable with myself than I ever was before. I no longer feel trapped by the doctrines of hell and sin like many Christians are. I no longer have to wonder whether I should play video games or not, whether this movie is good for me to watch, whetherthis book is ok for me to read and enjoy. I no longer have to go to church. I no longer have to waste time praying. I no longer have to wait for marriage in order to have sex. I no longer have to feel shame for feeling lust for women. I no longer have to be intellectually dishonest.

I am now totally and completely free.

And I hope the same for all Christians who, deep inside, want to get out of the Christian prison that they're in. I would love you to have the same feelings and freedom that I currently have. Because nothing can be better and more relieving than being free from dogma and all that sh**.

That's why I'm posting here.

I can now appreciate the universe the way it actually is. And I accept the fact that this universe will always have mysteries for us to solve no matter how far we go with our scientific discoveries. I no longer have to blindly fill in any gaps using the Christian god.

Cheers.

Offline Parts

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 08:00:02 AM »
Wow That was a post. I'd plus you again but that would start the rumblings of conspiracy :laugh:
Glad you saw the light. :thumbup:
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midlifeaspie

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 08:01:51 AM »
Do you think that your fundamentalist Christian upbringing might play a role in your Male Persecution Complex?

Offline Calavera

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 08:05:24 AM »
Do you think that your fundamentalist Christian upbringing might play a role in your Male Persecution Complex?

I don't understand what you mean here. Please elaborate for me.

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 09:22:47 AM »
Do you think that your fundamentalist Christian upbringing might play a role in your Male Persecution Complex?

I don't understand what you mean here. Please elaborate for me.

I was busting your chops.  An inside joke between us, but obviously not a very good one if you didn't get it  :autism:

Offline bodie

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 09:26:09 AM »
The main christian religion here is 'church of england'  which always makes me laugh when
i think how it originated.   Good old King Henry VIII  found himself in a bit of a fix when the
pope (most of UK were catholics back then) wouldn't grant Henry a divorce from Catherine
of Aaragon.  He so badly wanted to put his dick in Anne Boleyn that he just fucked catholosism
off and formed his own church  -  Church of England, or C of E as it's so comonly written.  

What was the name of your christian religion?  reason i ask is your comments regarding 'lusting
after women'    -  i didn't think any of the christian religions require you to be celibate.  Apart
from Catholics who are joining the priesthood.  

So i am a bit confused as to why you couldn't lust after women.   Plenty of young christian men
here lust after women - difference is i suppose they get laughed at more? :dunno:
blah blah blah

Offline Queen Victoria

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 09:58:41 AM »
Just to let you know you're not alone in the religious toss-up.  I was raised Roman Catholic, started to convert to Judaism in my 30's, married a Lutheran and have a Lutheran daughter, practice Judaism as much as I can and am the Supreme Governor of the Church of England on this forum.  This site is definitely not for the weak of heart or knees or those without a sense of humour.
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midlifeaspie

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 01:04:39 PM »
So now that you have renounced conservative Christianity, what is your view on homosexuality?

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 01:30:32 PM »
When you were a practicing Christian did you believe the Athanasiun Creed of Holy Trinity?

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 01:54:06 PM »
So now that you have renounced conservative Christianity, what is your view on homosexuality?

Be careful how you answer this.  :evillaugh:

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I'll just diagnose myself as Goddess of the Universe and have done with it. Hell with autism!  :green: :zoinks:

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Offline Calavera

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 05:21:47 PM »
Do you think that your fundamentalist Christian upbringing might play a role in your Male Persecution Complex?

I don't understand what you mean here. Please elaborate for me.

I was busting your chops.  An inside joke between us, but obviously not a very good one if you didn't get it  :autism:

Actually, I blame it on your new username. I didn't realize until after my last reply that you are MidLifeAspie. :autism:

But, nevertheless, I don't think Christianity has anything to do with me noticing men being discriminated against by not having a specific forum on WP (like women do). It's really Alex Plank, the ultimate hyper feminist and sexist dictator, who is making me think that way. If only it was worth calling him out here :laugh:

Offline Calavera

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2011, 05:30:44 PM »
The main christian religion here is 'church of england'  which always makes me laugh when
i think how it originated.   Good old King Henry VIII  found himself in a bit of a fix when the
pope (most of UK were catholics back then) wouldn't grant Henry a divorce from Catherine
of Aaragon.  He so badly wanted to put his dick in Anne Boleyn that he just fucked catholosism
off and formed his own church  -  Church of England, or C of E as it's so comonly written.  

What was the name of your christian religion?  reason i ask is your comments regarding 'lusting
after women'    -  i didn't think any of the christian religions require you to be celibate.  Apart
from Catholics who are joining the priesthood.  

So i am a bit confused as to why you couldn't lust after women.   Plenty of young christian men
here lust after women - difference is i suppose they get laughed at more? :dunno:

Ah, well, each has his own interpretation of what the Bible says. In the fundamentalist group I was in (it had no name to it actually), the verse where Jesus said that "if you look at a woman with lust, that's adultery at heart", that was taken literally.

Yes, it's frustrating. There was this one sweet Christian girl whom I always wanted to put my dick in, but good ol' Jesus was always there watching every move of mine and getting me paranoid. Now I'm a :viking: and don't allow any imaginary buddy of mine to dictate my way of thinking and living.

I am now literally a sex god (yeah, right).

EDIT: Notepad, right?

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2011, 05:33:16 PM »
Do you think that your fundamentalist Christian upbringing might play a role in your Male Persecution Complex?

I don't understand what you mean here. Please elaborate for me.

I was busting your chops.  An inside joke between us, but obviously not a very good one if you didn't get it  :autism:

Actually, I blame it on your new username. I didn't realize until after my last reply that you are MidLifeAspie. :autism:

But, nevertheless, I don't think Christianity has anything to do with me noticing men being discriminated against by not having a specific forum on WP (like women do). It's really Alex Plank, the ultimate hyper feminist and sexist dictator, who is making me think that way. If only it was worth calling him out here :laugh:

If you do call him out, I know of several members who would back you up.
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Offline Calavera

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Re: I ask MCalavera, you can too!
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2011, 05:36:00 PM »
Just to let you know you're not alone in the religious toss-up.  I was raised Roman Catholic, started to convert to Judaism in my 30's, married a Lutheran and have a Lutheran daughter, practice Judaism as much as I can and am the Supreme Governor of the Church of England on this forum.  This site is definitely not for the weak of heart or knees or those without a sense of humour.

That's interesting. You know, I've recently been tempted to pretend I was back to being a fundamentalist Christian here or in some other forum (like WP) just to get a rise out of some people. :laugh:

There goes my secret.