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Author Topic: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe  (Read 2987 times)

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TheoK

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(For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« on: August 12, 2009, 10:12:27 AM »
I thought you Americans would like to know why we have such incredibly cowardly gun laws in Europe. I link to a discussion on one of the most pro-gun forums in Sweden and you can read for yourself. You'll understand most of it with Google Translate.

Four year old shot his sister in the USA

Google Translate


Offline matthe

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2009, 06:09:18 PM »
i dont speak...but i have a pro gun friend there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU
feix ma spellan. ai nide halp. coz i caent duet.

The_Chosen_One

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2009, 06:23:10 PM »
I also have some friends there who could give their opinion on it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ohr4P8E_io

Offline Callaway

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2009, 09:18:59 PM »
I thought you Americans would like to know why we have such incredibly cowardly gun laws in Europe. I link to a discussion on one of the most pro-gun forums in Sweden and you can read for yourself. You'll understand most of it with Google Translate.

Four year old shot his sister in the USA

Google Translate



I couldn't get it to tranlate the whole forum, but here is a translation of the article they are discussing:


Four-year-old shot his sister in the U.S.
Av TT Of TT
Publicerad 25 juli 2009 16.31 | Uppdaterad 25 juli 2009 16.44 Published July 25, 2009 16.31 | Updated July 25, 2009 16.44

STOCKHOLM. STOCKHOLM. En tvåårig flicka i Las Vegas svävar mellan liv och död efter att ha skjutits i bröstet av sin fyraårige bror. A two-year old girl in Las Vegas hovers between life and death having been shot in the chest of his four-year brother.

I South Carolina sköts en fyraårig pojke i magen av sin treårige lillebror. In South Carolina shot a four-year-old boy in the stomach of his three year younger brother.

Båda olyckorna skedde i torsdags kväll i USA, och båda har samma orsak: Föräldrar som låter laddade pistoler ligga framme så att barnen kan få tag i dem. Both accidents occurred on Thursday evening in the U.S., and both have the same cause: Parents who allow loaded guns lie ahead so that children can get hold of them.

Den skadade pojken från Gray Court i South Carolina, vars bror hittade en pistol under en säng, fördes till sjukhus i helikopter och opererades. The injured boy from Gray Court, South Carolina, whose brother found a gun under a bed, was taken to hospital in the helicopter and operated. Enligt polisen kommer han att klara sig, rapporterar BBC. According to police, he will survive, reports the BBC.

Värre ser det ut för den tvååriga flickan, vars tillstånd är kritiskt. Unfortunately, it looks for the two-year girl, whose condition is critical.

Åtal har inte väckts mot föräldrarna i något av fallen. Prosecution has not been brought against the parents of any of the cases.

De två vådaskotten inträffade mindre än en vecka efter att en femårig pojke dog efter att ha skjutit sig i huvudet med en pistol som han hittade i pappans bil. The two accidentally shoots occurred less than a week after a five-year-old boy died after shooting themselves in the head with a gun which he found in his father's car. I det fallet har åtal väckts för äventyrande av barns säkerhet. In that case, the charge of compromising children's safety.

I USA är rätten att bära vapen inskriven i konstitutionen. In the U.S. the right to bear arms enshrined in the Constitution. Man räknar med att det finns mer än 200 miljoner skjutvapen i privata händer, detta i ett land med cirka 306 miljoner invånare. It is estimated that there are more than 200 million firearms in private hands, this in a country with approximately 306 million inhabitants.

Apparently, much of the rest of the world pictures us as a bunch of cowboys in the old Wild West and their media uses propaganda to perpetuate this myth.

I think that this guy made sense:

The problem that causes this kind of tragedy is that the liberals who control both the USA and Sweden want to remove the weapons from the people. Weapons must be something dangerous and mythology that only the police and the crooks are. This means that you create an environment where ordinary people do not have a natural relationship with the weapons and the knowledge on how to act on weapons and how to teach their children from an early age to handle weapons.
A three-year-or four-year-old will not of course deal with weapons, at least not without adult control, but they still need to know how to behave around guns. They should know that if they encounter a gun they should get an adult who can take care of the gun, or are they in all cases, leave the room where he is.
As adults, we must also know that children are smart and attentive, they will know where the gun is hidden, or were the keys to the weapons cabinet is. therefore must have procedures about guns that makes the children not to access the weapons and that, if they access the weapons do not think they are exciting, but lets them be.
In a healthy society included weapons vett in kindergarten and school education so that citizens can handle weapons, in all cases secure and charge them. and so that they can educate children to act safely around firearms.
Such a society will be a demystify the firearms and weapons can not demystify power play on fear of the unknown in order to gradually get rid of the honest citizens' ownership of weapons through propaganda and legislation.


P7PSP

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 09:26:42 PM »
Yes I agree with that Callaway. I get particularly pissed at hypocrites like Ted Kennedy, Rosie O'Donell, Bill Lockyer and Bill Clinton who seek to disarm the plebes in society yet use their money and influence to carry like Lockyer or have full time armed bodyguards like FFK, Rosie and slick Willy do. The old "Do as I say, not as I do" fucking fucks!

Offline matthe

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 10:04:45 PM »
guns dont kill people. our american todlers do.
feix ma spellan. ai nide halp. coz i caent duet.

The_Chosen_One

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 10:08:20 PM »
You are a responsible gun owner PPK, and you know the rules of how to use your weapons and the danger involved with them. Unfortunately, there are the 'tards out there that don't give a shit about what they are meant to do, like the kid who shot up Columbine and the other kids who practice similar shootings. I know I said once on zOMG that disarming the public would be the way to go, but only responsible ownership is what will work. If you totally disarm the public, the nutters will still get weapons through the 'black market', which is the last thing anyone needs.

You only have to look at Martin Bryant and Port Arthur here to see what happens when nutters get arms. Only thing is, Howard went too far.

TheoK

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 12:30:18 AM »
Yes I agree with that Callaway. I get particularly pissed at hypocrites like Ted Kennedy, Rosie O'Donell, Bill Lockyer and Bill Clinton who seek to disarm the plebes in society yet use their money and influence to carry like Lockyer or have full time armed bodyguards like FFK, Rosie and slick Willy do. The old "Do as I say, not as I do" fucking fucks!

Like Swedish politicians (all Swedish politicians with any real power are against liberal gun laws). They have the security police protect them 24/7, so they don't have to worry much themselves.

And the judges and jurors in court, who convict people who have defended themselves with guns to "self-defense excess" don't live in neighbourhoods where they're likely to get robbed or raped either.  ::)

TheoK

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2009, 12:36:45 AM »
You are a responsible gun owner PPK, and you know the rules of how to use your weapons and the danger involved with them. Unfortunately, there are the 'tards out there that don't give a shit about what they are meant to do, like the kid who shot up Columbine and the other kids who practice similar shootings. I know I said once on zOMG that disarming the public would be the way to go, but only responsible ownership is what will work. If you totally disarm the public, the nutters will still get weapons through the 'black market', which is the last thing anyone needs.

You only have to look at Martin Bryant and Port Arthur here to see what happens when nutters get arms. Only thing is, Howard went too far.

Most gun owners are responsible. We have yet to have a school shooting in Sweden, but there have been two in Finland. About ten people were killed in each. Then the newspapers, TV etc cry for harsher gun laws (Finland has slightly more liberal gun laws than Sweden). What they don't mention is that two millions of gun owning Finns did not shoot kids at school, or that about the same amount of people as in a school shooting is killed every week on the Swedish and Finnish roads, all the time.

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2009, 02:51:15 AM »
Yes I agree with that Callaway. I get particularly pissed at hypocrites like Ted Kennedy, Rosie O'Donell, Bill Lockyer and Bill Clinton who seek to disarm the plebes in society yet use their money and influence to carry like Lockyer or have full time armed bodyguards like FFK, Rosie and slick Willy do. The old "Do as I say, not as I do" fucking fucks!
Its not hypocritical at all, even if they ban average citizens from having guns (e.g. over here in the UK), people who need armed police protection get it. Bear in mind that Ted Kennedy had his two brothers shot to death, it would be suicide for him not to have armed bodyguards. Same with Bill Clinton. As for the average citizen, they don't need the protection for the most part.

Also disarming the plebs doesn't seem a bad idea to me, provided I was one of the few who got a gun, of course.

TheoK

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2009, 03:32:11 AM »
The "plebs" are disarmed in England.

The_Chosen_One

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2009, 04:01:41 AM »
Yes I agree with that Callaway. I get particularly pissed at hypocrites like Ted Kennedy, Rosie O'Donell, Bill Lockyer and Bill Clinton who seek to disarm the plebes in society yet use their money and influence to carry like Lockyer or have full time armed bodyguards like FFK, Rosie and slick Willy do. The old "Do as I say, not as I do" fucking fucks!
Its not hypocritical at all, even if they ban average citizens from having guns (e.g. over here in the UK), people who need armed police protection get it. Bear in mind that Ted Kennedy had his two brothers shot to death, it would be suicide for him not to have armed bodyguards. Same with Bill Clinton. As for the average citizen, they don't need the protection for the most part.

Also disarming the plebs doesn't seem a bad idea to me, provided I was one of the few who got a gun, of course.

If the plebs were disarmed, and I mean ALL guns taken away (including hunting rifles, target pistols, and shotguns), I bet you would still get yours from the afore-mentioned 'black market'. The general PCs over in Britain aren't armed, and it's only the special force that carry guns there. In the US (correct me if I'm wrong PPK) you can get a rifle or any semi-automatic weapon without a wait, but you need to wait 14 days for a handgun. Still, anyone who can get a permit to carry can own a weapon.

Here, Howard got everyone to hand in ALL weapons unless you could show a specific need to own one. Farmers and sporting shooters were generally the only ones allowed to carry, as well as the cops and millitary. Collectors had to keep their under lock and key, but the crims managed to get themquite easily.

TheoK

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2009, 04:16:48 AM »
In Vermont and Alaska you just do a quick background check (in principle just the gun dealer calling the cops) and if they say it's OK, you're instantly allowed to buy any semi-automatic that you want.

Offline Adam

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2009, 06:52:29 AM »
if I was president of the Untied States I would expect protection to. as it is, I'm not, so I don't. if I lived somewhere where I could own a gun, I probably would do, but definitely not a loaded one if I lived with a kid in the house. that being said, I don't support letting people have guns in this country. I'd much rather only the police etc had them than my neighbours and the kids down the road

TheoK

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Re: (For Americans) What the gun debate looks like in Europe
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2009, 06:58:43 AM »
if I was president of the Untied States I would expect protection to. as it is, I'm not, so I don't. if I lived somewhere where I could own a gun, I probably would do, but definitely not a loaded one if I lived with a kid in the house. that being said, I don't support letting people have guns in this country. I'd much rather only the police etc had them than my neighbours and the kids down the road

Yes, you can always trust the cops - like in the Soviet Union, for instance.  ::)