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Start here => Free For ALL => Topic started by: FourAceDeal on November 29, 2017, 06:14:04 AM

Title: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on November 29, 2017, 06:14:04 AM
...has just retweeted 3 videos originally posted by a member of the UKs "Britain First" organisation.

This has just pushed everything else off the news in the UK.  This is possibly the biggest news event of the freaking year.

I wonder how his press office are going to smooth this one over.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 29, 2017, 06:20:21 AM
...has just retweeted 3 videos originally posted by a member of the UKs "Britain First" organisation.

This has just pushed everything else off the news in the UK.  This is possibly the biggest news event of the freaking year.

I wonder how his press office are going to smooth this one over.

National Pride is not a bad thing. Understanding it and appreciating it in others is not a bad thing surely?

I may be missing something in your telling. Trump tweeted. He does this a lot. He supports an organisation that is supporting their homeland? I dunno. I may be missing some greater nuance.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on November 29, 2017, 06:37:31 AM
...has just retweeted 3 videos originally posted by a member of the UKs "Britain First" organisation.

This has just pushed everything else off the news in the UK.  This is possibly the biggest news event of the freaking year.

I wonder how his press office are going to smooth this one over.

National Pride is not a bad thing. Understanding it and appreciating it in others is not a bad thing surely?

I may be missing something in your telling. Trump tweeted. He does this a lot. He supports an organisation that is supporting their homeland? I dunno. I may be missing some greater nuance.

Trying to translate who Britain First can be difficult.  Yes they are white, christian and full of pride, but they're also a group formed from the collapse of several illegal football hooligan/organised violence groups with links to the northern Irish Loyalist terror community.  They're not just christian, they are anti-catholic extremists.  They are as nazi as you can get in Britain without getting immediately arrested.  Even the more right leaning of the political right of British politics hate them. 

I would guess that the nearest to them in the US would be the Aryan Nation people.

And they are not the sort of people that a countries leader should be retweating.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 29, 2017, 07:33:25 AM
...has just retweeted 3 videos originally posted by a member of the UKs "Britain First" organisation.

This has just pushed everything else off the news in the UK.  This is possibly the biggest news event of the freaking year.

I wonder how his press office are going to smooth this one over.

National Pride is not a bad thing. Understanding it and appreciating it in others is not a bad thing surely?

I may be missing something in your telling. Trump tweeted. He does this a lot. He supports an organisation that is supporting their homeland? I dunno. I may be missing some greater nuance.

Trying to translate who Britain First can be difficult.  Yes they are white, christian and full of pride, but they're also a group formed from the collapse of several illegal football hooligan/organised violence groups with links to the northern Irish Loyalist terror community.  They're not just christian, they are anti-catholic extremists.  They are as nazi as you can get in Britain without getting immediately arrested.  Even the more right leaning of the political right of British politics hate them. 

I would guess that the nearest to them in the US would be the Aryan Nation people.

And they are not the sort of people that a countries leader should be retweating.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jRjpTIDi67w/TYHAheYv34I/AAAAAAAAC3A/LVYTzUYFoXg/s1600/Green+Street+Hooligans+2.jpg)

Like this mob?

Meh, I do not see the big deal so much.

What I mean to say is, the other day I quoted Noam Chomsky. I do not particularly like him or agree with much of what he thinks or says BUT he was absolutely on point with what I quoted. So is my agreeing with something he says and/or quoting him at all, tantamount to agreeing with his every utterance, thought, political convictions and whatever? This seems to be the standard you are putting on Trump. I am not so sure I agree with it all.

Or let's put it another way. I think Obama was charismatic, articulate, had a huge amount of poise, grace, charm and sense of gravity and reserve. He came across as genuine and thoughtful and measured.
I think Trump on most of these accounts fails very badly.
I think history will be a LOT kinder to Trump than Obama. I think the reason will be that Trump will be a far better President and do far more for the country than Obama did.

I can think these things whilst accepting the things I really liked about Obama are absent in Trump and visa versa. Do you see what I mean?

Maybe Trump was agreeing with some sentiments that he DOES align with? Maybe agreeing with some specific elements of their platform is NOT endorsement of everything they think do or say?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on November 29, 2017, 07:59:04 AM
When your president is supporting the output form a neo-nazi group you have taken a wrong turn.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 29, 2017, 12:55:43 PM
When your president is supporting the output form a neo-nazi group you have taken a wrong turn.

Or they have said something worthy of support perhaps? I think it shows the opposite of what you are trying to say and for the reasons I have already shown.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on November 29, 2017, 04:52:43 PM
When your president is supporting the output form a neo-nazi group you have taken a wrong turn.

Or they have said something worthy of support perhaps? I think it shows the opposite of what you are trying to say and for the reasons I have already shown.

The fact that you support his actions does not surprise me in any way.  I already know what you are and where you get your information.

FYI, all three videos are already old news, having been first posted 4 or 5 years ago.  Two were debunked as false years ago, and the third, some old shit with a beard throwing a statue, could have come from anywhere.  Who knows.  The chances of him being a god appointed spokesman for Islam is pretty slim - only the educationally subnormal could interpret it that way.

But I'd be interested in hearing your views on what Trump has done that makes him such a good president.  Fire away.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on November 30, 2017, 12:06:43 AM
Watch what's going on with Mueller.

I think it's a distraction, and a extremely bad one. The second one aimed right at all the religious nutters here that think he's the second coming of Christ. ::)

The first video was from protests in Egypt in 2013, in the second the guy breaks an already broken statue while no one knows what he's saying...and the third was already discredited by the Embassy of Netherlands...the "so called Muslim attacker" was Dutch. 

He talks about "fake news"??
He's nuts.

Little Suckabee Sanders will lie through her teeth and come up with something to defend him with though I'm sure.

What have we become here?
It's totally fucking embarrassing. :facepalm2:

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on November 30, 2017, 02:25:17 AM
One can understand why some don;t get the full horror though.  If you just read Breitbart and watch Fox you only get told about one third of what he does.  They edit out anything embarrassing.

It's now getting difficult to get good odds on whether he'll be impeached.  Currently at 5/4.  If you want good odds you have to guess the year.  2018 is 7/2.

Putin is laughing his cock off at all this.  And if the stakes weren't so high we'd be laughing too.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 30, 2017, 03:33:50 AM
When your president is supporting the output form a neo-nazi group you have taken a wrong turn.

Or they have said something worthy of support perhaps? I think it shows the opposite of what you are trying to say and for the reasons I have already shown.

The fact that you support his actions does not surprise me in any way.  I already know what you are and where you get your information.

FYI, all three videos are already old news, having been first posted 4 or 5 years ago.  Two were debunked as false years ago, and the third, some old shit with a beard throwing a statue, could have come from anywhere.  Who knows.  The chances of him being a god appointed spokesman for Islam is pretty slim - only the educationally subnormal could interpret it that way.

But I'd be interested in hearing your views on what Trump has done that makes him such a good president.  Fire away.

What I am? An Australian Centrist. Where I get my information? News.com.au, Breitbart, MSM.com, Washington Post, Twitter, Youtube and Reddit.

The videos? Up til this point of the conversation, I did not know we were even talking about videos. I thought he had retweeted something someone said. The someone was apparently someone from an organisation called "Britain First" (so I suspected a Patriot Brexit pseudo-political organsation). You told me they were dregs and I said that whatever he was retweeting was likely something he agreed with. As I pointed out I agree with what I agree with regardless of who said it and I think this is a good standard. If Ted Bundy loved Roy Orbison it does not mean I have to now hate Roy's music because Bundy is a monster. This "You cannot support an opinion you agree with if it is from someone that we don't like" makes NO sense to me.

What I like about Trump? I think that the Establishment is not Liberal but "Progressives" or enable "Progressivism". I like Liberal ideology generally but I hate Progressivism. Trump's every move is a counter to the Establishment and the Cultural Marxism of Progressivism.

The obvious risk is that by countering the Progressives, that culture and society will swing too far in the opposite direction and instead of becoming more centrist or Moderate Liberal/Libertarian, they will swing past and go into some different but equally bad territory like the Religious Right of years ago. But maybe not.

But the economy seems good, he is breaking up the globalist agreements that effectively pretend all countries are not identities of their own but rather simply a part of a collectivist whole. He is enforcing against illegal immigration that I agree with. He is wiping out ISIS which is a pretty scary group. He is calling out the Media who I have disliked for many years. He is doing a lot of things I think are admirable.

Does that mean he is not flawed? He is nearly on inarticulate, believes in a lot of silly things including vaccines causing Autism, the birther thing was a bit stupid. A few other bits and pieces are cringe BUT irrespectively squaring the ledger, he does very well upsetting the right people and making enough changes and owning others.

100% better than Hillary.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on November 30, 2017, 07:40:59 AM
One can understand why some don;t get the full horror though.  If you just read Breitbart and watch Fox you only get told about one third of what he does.  They edit out anything embarrassing.

It's now getting difficult to get good odds on whether he'll be impeached.  Currently at 5/4.  If you want good odds you have to guess the year.  2018 is 7/2.

Putin is laughing his cock off at all this.  And if the stakes weren't so high we'd be laughing too.

My wonder is will they impeach him as a result of Mueller's findings or are they going to invoke the 25th on his crazy ass?

I think it might end up being a little bit of both. But when the train finally crashes it isn't going to be a smooth ride for any of us.  :P
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on November 30, 2017, 02:20:11 PM
It's scary shit now, too.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on November 30, 2017, 03:18:06 PM
It's scary shit now, too.

Yes it is.

I feel really bad for the kids seeing this. This isn't how it's supposed to be. This isn't "normal". I'm glad mine is old enough to understand that, because explaining this mess to the ones old enough to be asking "why?" has to be hard.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 30, 2017, 03:22:43 PM
It's scary shit now, too.

Yes it is.

I feel really bad for the kids seeing this. This isn't how it's supposed to be. This isn't "normal". I'm glad mine is old enough to understand that, because explaining this mess to the ones old enough to be asking "why?" has to be hard.

Impeachment should be ANY day....
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 01, 2017, 10:44:45 AM
It's scary shit now, too.

Yes it is.

I feel really bad for the kids seeing this. This isn't how it's supposed to be. This isn't "normal". I'm glad mine is old enough to understand that, because explaining this mess to the ones old enough to be asking "why?" has to be hard.

The man is unfit to be president. Actually, he's unfit to be anything.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 01, 2017, 10:57:26 AM
It's scary shit now, too.

Yes it is.

I feel really bad for the kids seeing this. This isn't how it's supposed to be. This isn't "normal". I'm glad mine is old enough to understand that, because explaining this mess to the ones old enough to be asking "why?" has to be hard.

The man is unfit to be president. Actually, he's unfit to be anything.

Or a billionaire?

The American economy seems to be doing great. What do I know though?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 01, 2017, 11:05:06 AM
It's scary shit now, too.

Yes it is.

I feel really bad for the kids seeing this. This isn't how it's supposed to be. This isn't "normal". I'm glad mine is old enough to understand that, because explaining this mess to the ones old enough to be asking "why?" has to be hard.

The man is unfit to be president. Actually, he's unfit to be anything.

Or a billionaire?

He isn't fit to be that either, no. Lucky for him that his father gave him a loan.

Quote
The American economy seems to be doing great. What do I know though?

Are you saying that's Trump's doing? I think many economists would appreciate the joke.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 01, 2017, 02:29:21 PM
Flynn is turning over on him.  Won't be long now.  The legal types reckon he'll be out before Easter because he'll have to jump before he's pushed.  Although the constitutional fallout will continue for years - can't wait for him to try and pardon himself.  And the longer he stays, the longer it will take the GOP to undo the damage.

Best president ever?  Yeah.  Sure.   Let's stand some Native Americans in front of a painting of Andrew Jackson and talk about Pochahontas.  Idiot.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on December 01, 2017, 03:45:23 PM
...has just retweeted 3 videos originally posted by a member of the UKs "Britain First" organisation.

This has just pushed everything else off the news in the UK.  This is possibly the biggest news event of the freaking year.

I wonder how his press office are going to smooth this one over.

England should become an Islamic country just like Sweden!!

We love the taste of Arab cock here!!
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 01, 2017, 03:55:24 PM
I'm waiting to see what "daddy's little girl" does when he throws Kushner under the bus.

Slimy little weasel shouldn't have kissed his FIL's a$$ so hard.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 01, 2017, 04:45:19 PM
Quote
James Comey‏  Verified account @Comey
6 hours ago

“But justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream” Amos 5:24 https://www.instagram.com/p/BcKtEUUg4Qa/
9,923 replies 47,139 retweets 107,531 likes

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 01, 2017, 04:52:21 PM
:laugh:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 01, 2017, 07:05:27 PM
I'm waiting to see what "daddy's little girl" does when he throws Kushner under the bus.

Slimy little weasel shouldn't have kissed his FIL's a$$ so hard.

He IS a slimy weasel. He was that prior to being Ivanka's beau. "Mr Perfect" is not a genuine reflection of how loved he is. He is disliked on both sides. Trump seems to love the guy and give him too much access and too much responsibility.
But then I liked Lewindowski and thought Mannafort was scum.
I dislike McMaster, Powell and Duke.

I like Flynn and hope he has all charges wiped.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 01, 2017, 07:12:10 PM
Flynn is turning over on him.  Won't be long now.  The legal types reckon he'll be out before Easter because he'll have to jump before he's pushed.  Although the constitutional fallout will continue for years - can't wait for him to try and pardon himself.  And the longer he stays, the longer it will take the GOP to undo the damage.

Best president ever?  Yeah.  Sure.   Let's stand some Native Americans in front of a painting of Andrew Jackson and talk about Pochahontas.  Idiot.

Everyone has been saying he will be ousted from before he was elected.
Did Flynn try to reach out to Russia? Did Flynn lie to the FBI about it? Certainly seems so.
So game set match....right?
When did Flynn reach out to Russia? Before or after Trump was elected?
You know what would be super funny. If it was after. If it was after then Trump SHOULD reach out to every nation and he certainly did. Funnier still if Flynn get immunity from prosecution for lying to the FBI in order to smear Trump and all he managed to do is muddy waters a little and make Kushner look like a bit of a putz.
I am interested to see what comes out of the Podesta investigations.
I don't mind hearing more from the media about Flynn but hearing bugger all about Weiner, Huma and Podesta. Wonder why that is?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 02, 2017, 02:09:31 AM
Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.

I also like Flynn, I do not know what he has to bring to the table, but I hope it's something.

Trump has always been a big fan of the Enquirer...and they've been known to cater to him...even more so now.

There latest propaganda cover still in supermarkets now:
(http://images.dailykos.com/images/381565/large/enquirer2-1.jpg?1490373097)

Basically it brands Flynn as the Russian spy and throws him under the proverbial bus. :facepalm2:

I hate the tabloids...and drama queens that like to use them as their "tool"...like I said, I hope he's got something.

Yes, I hope he has something too. I don't really care about the National Enquirer.
Flynn had a rough deal. I can sympathise a little with Trump's position and I think his rationale gives him a "reason" to get rid of Flynn BUT it was not the right thing to do. A bit of pressure SHOULD have meant Trump should have gone Balls to the wall. That is the only reason the Democrats have gone after both Sessions and Gorsuch so hard. They were emboldened because Trump caved under Flynn. I understand it, sure, but I do not like it and I like Lewindowski more and hate that he was cut loose.

I want Flynn to clear himself. in whatever manner it takes to do that. I don't know what he has BUT so long as what he says is not petty backbiting, I am okay with it. I do not care if it is anti-Trump but so long as it does not come off as bitchy or petty, I do not mind. No gossip, just facts. Flynn is military and I think he will do exactly that.

He deserves a chance to wipe the slate clean and have some closure. If trump cops due heat, that is fine, he should have looked after Flynn better and gone the extra mile for him and not cut him when he could.

I am a believer in fair.

I have said it before and I will say it again. What you will get from Flynn may or may not be tantilising BUT the proof is in the pudding on what you will get from Mannafort. If Mannafort (who I do find deplorable) is subpoenaed and given immunity he will either bring down the campaign and vindicate every Liberal talking point OR not bring anything to the table and IF that is the case then you will know at that point, there will be NOTHING to bring

All this is going to do is smear Trump. Less than the Hollywood access tapes maybe BUT it will not incriminate him legally or ethically. It will simply allow for more saber rattling. Not to say saber rattling is good for him. Th President does not NEED to be convicted of specific criminal wrongdoing to be voted out. A majority of Congress deciding that he is "unfit for office" (they don't like him) will be enough. But I don't think they will get that either.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 02, 2017, 02:43:33 AM
Mueller knows what he is doing. He's working his way up and Flynn is just a stop along the way.

The Watergate investigation didn't happen overnight either. Give it time.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 02, 2017, 03:04:39 AM
Mueller knows what he is doing. He's working his way up and Flynn is just a stop along the way.

The Watergate investigation didn't happen overnight either. Give it time.

Sure. Not even saying you are not right. I just don't see it. It does not personally affect me either way but this has been REALLY interesting. I just think with ALL the leaks and the wiretapping and everything else it has all been to no real effect. The best evidence over more than 12 months is a guy Pappadopoulous who was a volunteer doing stuff that was not sanctioned by Trump (to his defence he thought it would help) and Don Junior who may have but didn't do anything wrong and suspiciously may well have been set up by Fusion GPS . Now Flynn who seems to have lied to the FBI and now is getting excused from that whilst telling FBI that he helped set up diplomatic actions in his role for the then President Trump as per his duties and on lawful instruction. Paul Mannafort got nailed for what he did years before whilst working with the Democrat Podesta group.

Carter page and Roger Stone stuff seems to be a nothingburger. But what about Kushner? Slimy little git is slippery and I think will get away with whatever he has done (but hopefully be shitcanned from the Administration)

But the rest? I just don't see it.

But on the other side I think there is enough to sink quite a few of them. That does not mean they cannot squirm out of the criminality or that they will even be pursued. But should they be I think a few WILL go down. The Podestas and The Huma/Weiner couple as a starter.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 02, 2017, 04:19:01 AM
I very much doubt we know what "the best evidence" is at this point. Mueller is building this up very carefully. Again, give it time.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 02, 2017, 04:20:37 AM
I'll say this, though: Trump should be nervous by now.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 02, 2017, 04:45:24 AM
I very much doubt we know what "the best evidence" is at this point. Mueller is building this up very carefully. Again, give it time.

I am happy to wait. I like a good political trainwreck. Don't see it to be honest but out of interest what do YOU think the angle will be. I think the only one that really could hurt Trump is Kushner. I think Trump will protect him even if it is far from in his best interests. BUT I think Kushner is too weaselly to get himself into a position he will screw himself over.

If I was a betting man I would put odds on NOTHING too damaging coming out of the investigation for trump and ANYTHING coming out of it as dismissive as Pappadopoulous or Mannafort.

As you say, we will see.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 02, 2017, 04:57:20 AM
Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.


Where do you get your news?

This is more delusion.  It's no longer a matter of why and when Flynn approached Russia, it's whether he's going to admit he was ordered to do so to keep himself out of jail.

You should widen your circle of reading otherwise what happens next will be too surprising for you.  But I look forward to your future shifting arguments as you try to match your narrative to world events.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 02, 2017, 05:03:05 AM
Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.


Where do you get your news?

This is more delusion.  It's no longer a matter of why and when Flynn approached Russia, it's whether he's going to admit he was ordered to do so to keep himself out of jail.

You should widen your circle of reading otherwise what happens next will be too surprising for you.  But I look forward to your future shifting arguments as you try to match your narrative to world events.

How wide?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/media/abc-news-flynn-correction/index.html

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/abc-news-issues-correction-trump-did-not-ask-michael-flynn-to-contact-the-russians-as-a-candidate/article/2642355

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-flynn-charged-making-false-statements-fbi-documents/story?id=50849354

"The source said Trump phoned Flynn shortly after the election to explicitly ask him to “serve as point person on Russia,” and to reach out personally to Russian officials to develop strategies to jointly combat ISIS."

You KNOW Presidents reaching out to foreign leaders is fine, right?

Sorry but this looks suspiciously like nothing. There may be a something out there but this seems to have no legs.

Oh by the way, whilst you consistently try to infer MY reading sources are limited and the information is bad. In this case, it seems I was dead on the money with my assertions, doesn't it?

So now I will ask YOU the same questions. You refuted my claims, where do YOU get your reading sources from and how good are they?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Calandale on December 02, 2017, 06:43:59 AM
Mueller knows what he is doing. He's working his way up and Flynn is just a stop along the way.

The Watergate investigation didn't happen overnight either. Give it time.


The Republican Party had a vestige of honor back then.


Don't delude yourself thinking that they won't allow Trump to become America's Mugabe. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 02, 2017, 03:57:20 PM
I very much doubt we know what "the best evidence" is at this point. Mueller is building this up very carefully. Again, give it time.

I am happy to wait. I like a good political trainwreck. Don't see it to be honest but out of interest what do YOU think the angle will be. I think the only one that really could hurt Trump is Kushner. I think Trump will protect him even if it is far from in his best interests. BUT I think Kushner is too weaselly to get himself into a position he will screw himself over.

If I was a betting man I would put odds on NOTHING too damaging coming out of the investigation for trump and ANYTHING coming out of it as dismissive as Pappadopoulous or Mannafort.

As you say, we will see.

Honestly, I don't know what the angle is going to be. I'd love to know. I know Trump is a deplorable human being and think that should be enough, but I know it's not. Having said that, though, the man is also a moron and he can't help but provide ammunition.

Time will tell. I hope it's going to be sooner than later but that's because he is a danger to the whole world, not just his country.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 02, 2017, 04:01:43 PM
Mueller knows what he is doing. He's working his way up and Flynn is just a stop along the way.

The Watergate investigation didn't happen overnight either. Give it time.


The Republican Party had a vestige of honor back then.


Don't delude yourself thinking that they won't allow Trump to become America's Mugabe.

I hope it's not going to happen but yeah, anything is possible.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 02, 2017, 09:50:47 PM
Well, well, well.

Flynn lied to the FBI like Hillary did.

Flynn had reached out to Russia AFTER Trump was President (which was completely okay).

He was thrown under the bus for "lying to Sessions" (which I object to strongly).

I DO think Trump ought to have stood by Flynn and it was simply convenient for him to throw him under the bus. It was a shit move and I have stated that here.


Where do you get your news?

This is more delusion.  It's no longer a matter of why and when Flynn approached Russia, it's whether he's going to admit he was ordered to do so to keep himself out of jail.

You should widen your circle of reading otherwise what happens next will be too surprising for you.  But I look forward to your future shifting arguments as you try to match your narrative to world events.

How wide?

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/media/abc-news-flynn-correction/index.html

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/abc-news-issues-correction-trump-did-not-ask-michael-flynn-to-contact-the-russians-as-a-candidate/article/2642355

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-flynn-charged-making-false-statements-fbi-documents/story?id=50849354

"The source said Trump phoned Flynn shortly after the election to explicitly ask him to “serve as point person on Russia,” and to reach out personally to Russian officials to develop strategies to jointly combat ISIS."

You KNOW Presidents reaching out to foreign leaders is fine, right?

Sorry but this looks suspiciously like nothing. There may be a something out there but this seems to have no legs.

Oh by the way, whilst you consistently try to infer MY reading sources are limited and the information is bad. In this case, it seems I was dead on the money with my assertions, doesn't it?

So now I will ask YOU the same questions. You refuted my claims, where do YOU get your reading sources from and how good are they?

*Crickets*

Misinformed. Ideologically driven and once you peel away the self-righteous indignation& snark and ideological fed narrative, and have to account for facts, you have nothing. Right?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 02, 2017, 11:45:18 PM
Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
9:14 AM - 2 Dec 2017

Basically he just tweeted that he "knew" Flynn lied to the FBI.
 
The man's a fucking moron.

Now he's ranting about "Crooked Hillary" again.
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 03, 2017, 12:29:24 AM
Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
9:14 AM - 2 Dec 2017

Basically he just tweeted that he "knew" Flynn lied to the FBI.
 
The man's a fucking moron.

Now he's ranting about "Crooked Hillary" again.
 :rofl:

Of course he did. Why else would he have told Comey to go easy on him because he was a good guy? None of this is new or news for that matter. I still say Flynn got a rough deal.
Don't think so? Hillary lied continually. To the Public. To the FBI. To Congress. No foul.

I absolutely think Flynn did the wrong thing. He ought not have lied BUT this has address NOTHING about what I said above and nor has it the slightest thing to do with the Russian collusion narrative that the ABC pushed yet again.

Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

I don't see it. I think the odds are that there is actually nothing. Certainly all the breathless Russia narrative that has swallowed up all the political discord is BASED on nothing (the fabricated dossier for example) BUT it is NOT to say that Mueller digging around may not find something with actual merit that DOES incriminate Trump and his Administration.

Bombshell after breathless bombshell comes to nothing. I want a little put up or shut up. Find the crime report on it, let everyone know but for these silly nothingburgers to be left well alone. Flynn lying to FBI is nothing to do with Russian collusion. Pappadopoulos a volunteer who sat on two meetings who did something ill-advised and unsanctioned is nothing to do with Russia collusion. Neither is Junior talking to some DNC funded Russian lawyer misrepresenting herself to talk about the adoption thing Russia collusion. Nor is Mannafort being a shifty snake who laundered money with the DNC associated Podesta group years ago Russia collusion.

Just want actual evidence without constant barrage from media saying "This is it. Trump will be impeached. Russia, Russia . Russia....oh wait it is not at all"
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 03, 2017, 12:30:47 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSuregWhlWk
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 03, 2017, 02:20:41 AM
Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

This is not what I said.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 03, 2017, 02:32:46 AM
Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

This is not what I said.

I was trying to paraphrase. Is this not the crux of your position? If not then let me know what nuance I missed?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 03, 2017, 03:19:54 AM

*Crickets*

Misinformed. Ideologically driven and once you peel away the self-righteous indignation& snark and ideological fed narrative, and have to account for facts, you have nothing. Right?
sorry.  I was out having fun.  Did you miss me?

I'll go as slow as I can so you can understand this first time round.

What you've done is mistake the outcome of a plea bargain with reality.  What happens in a "plea bargain" is that someone agrees to plead guilty to a much lesser charge in return for their testimony about other people on other charges.  So yes these news sites have clarified what the charge is. 

If you think, with your brain, yes Al, even your brain might make the leap...  If this is the lesser charge he has agreed to plead guilty too then there must have been greater charges.  See how that works Al?

If your viewpoint is that the charge as is is what the truth is, then I hold my line.  In the coming months it will be really funny watching you have to change your narrative to fit into what else is going to happen.

Did you get that or do I have to go over it again?

I'd spend more time explaining but to be honest I can't undo your lifetime of dumb in a few forum posts.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 03, 2017, 03:56:14 AM

*Crickets*

Misinformed. Ideologically driven and once you peel away the self-righteous indignation& snark and ideological fed narrative, and have to account for facts, you have nothing. Right?
sorry.  I was out having fun.  Did you miss me?

I'll go as slow as I can so you can understand this first time round.

What you've done is mistake the outcome of a plea bargain with reality.  What happens in a "plea bargain" is that someone agrees to plead guilty to a much lesser charge in return for their testimony about other people on other charges.  So yes these news sites have clarified what the charge is. 

If you think, with your brain, yes Al, even your brain might make the leap...  If this is the lesser charge he has agreed to plead guilty too then there must have been greater charges.  See how that works Al?

If your viewpoint is that the charge as is is what the truth is, then I hold my line.  In the coming months it will be really funny watching you have to change your narrative to fit into what else is going to happen.

Did you get that or do I have to go over it again?

I'd spend more time explaining but to be honest I can't undo your lifetime of dumb in a few forum posts.

I would ask you to review what you said, but seriously why bother?

You are making a new goalpost.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 03, 2017, 04:47:51 AM
That's right Al.  I'm moving the goal posts. 

Meanwhile...  Manafort.  PopoGOPolous.  Gates.  Flynn.  Four people charged with links to Russia.  Now Mueller is within the inner circle and Flynn is singing.  It's going to go badly for some.

Why not tell us how you think this is all going to end?  We'll come back to this and compare in a few months time.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 03, 2017, 05:37:34 AM
That's right Al.  I'm moving the goal posts. 

Meanwhile...  Manafort.  PopoGOPolous.  Gates.  Flynn.  Four people charged with links to Russia.  Now Mueller is within the inner circle and Flynn is singing.  It's going to go badly for some.

Why not tell us how you think this is all going to end?  We'll come back to this and compare in a few months time.

I think that none of these people really has much to actually incriminate Trump BUT the fact that each of these people has lied, money laundered and gone rogue doing stuff unsanctioned whilst not in itself incriminating Trump it has a larger effect.

It looks bad. These are people connected with Trump and THAT MAY have the effect of undermining confidence in Trump in the eyes of Congress. If people are waiting with baited breath for the revelation that Trump was in on some big Russia collusion thing, I think they will be disappointed. HOWEVER, the big question is does he NEED to be incriminated on this OR can the Democrats who hate him and the GOP establishment who also hate him, remove him from office because on the basis of such poor choices and bad actions from those around him?

There is actual merit in this argument. It would be a bit of a roll of the dice and I think he can avoid this but I think it has more merit.

There is another person you did not mention. Jared "Mr Perfect" Kushner. If ANYONE in his team is likely to bring him down, I think it is Kushner. I think Kushner is like Pappadopoulos but with more standing and authority. What is more, I think Trump will, if pressed, cover for him. I think Jared is used to doing what he wants and being seen as the mover and shaker and out of anyone in the Administration is the one most likely to have done stupid things or okayed stupid actions in a quest to be seen as a big player.

I also think at the end of the day, even Jared will get away with anything he has done but will make Trump look bad.

If I had to put odds on

60% It will all come to nothing
25% The end of the Mueller investigation will not incriminate Trump but will do enough to make him look bad enough to oust him
10% Jared incriminates Trump in something and brings down Trump
5% Flynn incriminates Trump in something and Brings down Trump

As the percentage says I neither think Trump has done anything that will incriminate him nor do I think he is going down. But I don't know.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 03, 2017, 10:55:58 AM
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/007/322/lec-clue-by-four.jpg)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcNe-U6Azi6/

"Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth. "


Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 03, 2017, 01:57:57 PM
That's right Al.  I'm moving the goal posts. 

Meanwhile...  Manafort.  PopoGOPolous.  Gates.  Flynn.  Four people charged with links to Russia.  Now Mueller is within the inner circle and Flynn is singing.  It's going to go badly for some.

Why not tell us how you think this is all going to end?  We'll come back to this and compare in a few months time.

I think that none of these people really has much to actually incriminate Trump BUT the fact that each of these people has lied, money laundered and gone rogue doing stuff unsanctioned whilst not in itself incriminating Trump it has a larger effect.

It looks bad. These are people connected with Trump and THAT MAY have the effect of undermining confidence in Trump in the eyes of Congress. If people are waiting with baited breath for the revelation that Trump was in on some big Russia collusion thing, I think they will be disappointed. HOWEVER, the big question is does he NEED to be incriminated on this OR can the Democrats who hate him and the GOP establishment who also hate him, remove him from office because on the basis of such poor choices and bad actions from those around him?

There is actual merit in this argument. It would be a bit of a roll of the dice and I think he can avoid this but I think it has more merit.

There is another person you did not mention. Jared "Mr Perfect" Kushner. If ANYONE in his team is likely to bring him down, I think it is Kushner. I think Kushner is like Pappadopoulos but with more standing and authority. What is more, I think Trump will, if pressed, cover for him. I think Jared is used to doing what he wants and being seen as the mover and shaker and out of anyone in the Administration is the one most likely to have done stupid things or okayed stupid actions in a quest to be seen as a big player.

I also think at the end of the day, even Jared will get away with anything he has done but will make Trump look bad.

If I had to put odds on

60% It will all come to nothing
25% The end of the Mueller investigation will not incriminate Trump but will do enough to make him look bad enough to oust him
10% Jared incriminates Trump in something and brings down Trump
5% Flynn incriminates Trump in something and Brings down Trump

As the percentage says I neither think Trump has done anything that will incriminate him nor do I think he is going down. But I don't know.

I must agree with you that Kushner is the key (we can continue to argue another time).  If Trump has a weak stop it's this man.  He's the one man Trump can't throw under the bus without personal repercussions.  How many hops is it from Flynn to Kushner?  I don't know, but I'm betting it's not a large number.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 04, 2017, 12:28:34 AM
Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

This is not what I said.

I was trying to paraphrase. Is this not the crux of your position? If not then let me know what nuance I missed?

The "crux of my position" is that we don't know the full extent of what Mueller's got. The rest of your paraphrase is not me.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 04, 2017, 08:06:01 AM
Turns out my understanding was wrong.

Flynn's "deal" only extends to this prosecution and not other ones.  In the near future he may have to deal again on other charges.  Also, interesting reports that he is singing "in the interests of the nation".  I wonder if they are true.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Calandale on December 04, 2017, 08:32:14 PM
Odeon has made a point. A tired point at the moment but one with at least a bit of merit. The "we don't know yet the full extent and whilst NOTHING has definitively come to light to actually incriminate Trump in this Russian collusion narrative, Mueller MAY have something substantial.

This is not what I said.

I was trying to paraphrase. Is this not the crux of your position? If not then let me know what nuance I missed?

The "crux of my position" is that we don't know the full extent of what Mueller's got. The rest of your paraphrase is not me.


Seems the same to me - but with a different slant. The second line is really just a clarification, no?


Or, do you indeed no something that Mewller has on the Cheeto in Chief?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 05, 2017, 12:23:49 AM
I did not say that "nothing has definitely come to light...", merely that we don't know. Adding that subtly changes what I said.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Calandale on December 05, 2017, 01:26:54 AM
Just the tone. Unless you're saying that we are avoiding the general sources.


Certainly Mueller, Trump, and many others may know a great deal more than we do - but it hasn't come to light.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 05, 2017, 01:48:33 AM
Just the tone. Unless you're saying that we are avoiding the general sources.


Certainly Mueller, Trump, and many others may know a great deal more than we do - but it hasn't come to light.

That was my understanding. By comes to light, I mean to the general public.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Lestat on December 05, 2017, 09:30:35 AM
Cheeto in chief...haha.

He does kinda look like a wotsit with a shitty spray tan, doesn't he :P

Bush was just as bad. The extent to which he resembles a hairless chimpanzee is uncanny. Although I'd think a chimp would beat him senseless (well, at least, just beat him, since you can't beat out of somebody that which was never there to begin with :LOL:) in an intellectual debate.

One flung turd, and it'd be all over for bush. Who's turd and who did the flinging wouldn't matter. He'd still get owned.

Tony Bliar (spelling quite accurate, TIA) on the other hand, if he didn't look like a cobra in a shirt and tie, then I'll be damned and grow bloody boobs. Out of my knees.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 05, 2017, 01:15:24 PM
Cheeto in chief...haha.

He does kinda look like a wotsit with a shitty spray tan, doesn't he :P

Bush was just as bad. The extent to which he resembles a hairless chimpanzee is uncanny. Although I'd think a chimp would beat him senseless (well, at least, just beat him, since you can't beat out of somebody that which was never there to begin with :LOL:) in an intellectual debate.

One flung turd, and it'd be all over for bush. Who's turd and who did the flinging wouldn't matter. He'd still get owned.

Tony Bliar (spelling quite accurate, TIA) on the other hand, if he didn't look like a cobra in a shirt and tie, then I'll be damned and grow bloody boobs. Out of my knees.


I never saw that before, but now you've pointed it out I can't unsee it.

(http://www.cornel1801.com/disney/Robin-Hood-1973/movie/Sir_Hiss.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Lestat on December 05, 2017, 02:22:34 PM
It even hisses like a snake when It speaks, doesn't It.

Listen to the creature making a speech, if you can stomach quite such a heavy torrent of sycophancy and bollockspeak, you won't be able to unhear it either. Bliar isss a ss, s nake that tellsss l, l ,l liesss,   its the way he breaks his speech with that kind of repeated paussse, reminds me of a snake, flicking its tongue out and tasting the air in between parts of hisss sssentenssessss...
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 05, 2017, 08:38:46 PM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 06, 2017, 12:33:15 AM
He should be nervous.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 06, 2017, 03:14:08 AM
It even hisses like a snake when It speaks, doesn't It.

Listen to the creature making a speech, if you can stomach quite such a heavy torrent of sycophancy and bollockspeak, you won't be able to unhear it either. Bliar isss a ss, s nake that tellsss l, l ,l liesss,   its the way he breaks his speech with that kind of repeated paussse, reminds me of a snake, flicking its tongue out and tasting the air in between parts of hisss sssentenssessss...

Snake he was.  And undone by his own vanity and desire to be remembered as a world class statesman.  But idiot he was not.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 06, 2017, 03:19:17 AM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.

One suspects that his lawyers have finally taught him what self incrimination means.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 06, 2017, 05:22:14 AM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.

One suspects that his lawyers have finally taught him what self incrimination means.

We will see how it all pans out. It is certainly interesting whichever way it goes. I still say it will come to not a lot and there will be some upset people in America.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 06, 2017, 06:03:56 AM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.

One suspects that his lawyers have finally taught him what self incrimination means.

We will see how it all pans out. It is certainly interesting whichever way it goes. I still say it will come to not a lot and there will be some upset people in America.

These things usually end not with a bang but with a whimper.  The machine will protect itself as no one wants rioting in the streets.  They will get him by the balls and he will be forced to resign - although it will be for "personal reasons" and he will "want to spend more time with his family".  That is how things usually end over here.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: El on December 06, 2017, 06:52:37 AM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.

One suspects that his lawyers have finally taught him what self incrimination means.

We will see how it all pans out. It is certainly interesting whichever way it goes. I still say it will come to not a lot and there will be some upset people in America.

These things usually end not with a bang but with a whimper.  The machine will protect itself as no one wants rioting in the streets.  They will get him by the balls and he will be forced to resign - although it will be for "personal reasons" and he will "want to spend more time with his family".  That is how things usually end over here.
We haven't been letting people who're ousted by the Weinstein effect resign with dignity.  I don't think there'll be any pretense of Trump resigning "for personal reasons" (except maybe by Trump himself).
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 06, 2017, 07:20:20 AM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.

One suspects that his lawyers have finally taught him what self incrimination means.

We will see how it all pans out. It is certainly interesting whichever way it goes. I still say it will come to not a lot and there will be some upset people in America.

These things usually end not with a bang but with a whimper.  The machine will protect itself as no one wants rioting in the streets.  They will get him by the balls and he will be forced to resign - although it will be for "personal reasons" and he will "want to spend more time with his family".  That is how things usually end over here.
We haven't been letting people who're ousted by the Weinstein effect resign with dignity.  I don't think there'll be any pretense of Trump resigning "for personal reasons" (except maybe by Trump himself).

Nope, Trump will not resign.

Unfortunately or fortunately, the Democrats are up to their armpits in corruption as are the GOP establishment. Trump has  a lot of leverage and no regard for political norms. I have no doubt that if the "machine" wishes to take out Trump they will AND they will be successful BUT he will not go down easy and there will be metaphorical blood on the walls. He will take out a lot of people as will his surrogates and supporters AND a dangerous new precedent will be set in politics that will hurt both sides for years to come.

I like a good trainwreck as much as the next person and probably more. I just do not think they have anything of real consequence. I think from here it is a matter of the Democrats and the Establishment GOP trying to construct a lot of things together to try to make a pretence of a case look like anything but what it really is, the fact that they hate the guy, and pretend it is worthy of deposing him, OR not. They will say things like "Whilst Don Junior did not actually colude with Russia to affect the election he certainly appears to have had the intent", "Whilst you may not have reached out to Putin before the election, you had conversations about doing so well before and did once you were President", "Whilst you did not stop the investigation into Russia, you did fire James Comey, and whilst you did not explicitly say that he had to go easy on Flynn or that he must go easy on him nor direct him to stop pursuing Flynn, you did ask whether he could"

All of these things singular are o no consequence. Stack all these things up together and together they have more weight. The truth is and has been thus far though, none of that is criminal and pretty pedestrian. If they make a case based on these things then they risk being picked apart and exposed as the beat up it is and IF he is forced out of office on these things then as I say, it will get very messy and set a BAD precedent for any future leader.


Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 06, 2017, 10:05:57 AM
Trump has been strangely silent on Twitter.
Rumors are flying that Mueller now has the bank info.

Time to sort the laundry.

One suspects that his lawyers have finally taught him what self incrimination means.

We will see how it all pans out. It is certainly interesting whichever way it goes. I still say it will come to not a lot and there will be some upset people in America.

These things usually end not with a bang but with a whimper.  The machine will protect itself as no one wants rioting in the streets.  They will get him by the balls and he will be forced to resign - although it will be for "personal reasons" and he will "want to spend more time with his family".  That is how things usually end over here.
We haven't been letting people who're ousted by the Weinstein effect resign with dignity.  I don't think there'll be any pretense of Trump resigning "for personal reasons" (except maybe by Trump himself).

Trump is already the exception to the Weinstein rule. A bit like Ray Moore.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 06, 2017, 01:32:32 PM
I vote it won't slide, he won't resign, and he won't be in office. 

I have my own scenario on how this will play out, but I won't comment, because it's just a guess. I'm just watching the shitshow like everyone else.

I rather hope he does choose to resign.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 06, 2017, 04:01:29 PM
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N67D8HO/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_awdo_t1_TQXjAb71EB2CE

Scroll down and read the reviews.

Quote
I think it tried to deport the figures in our nativity scene.

Quote
I had requested a different ornament, but for some reason, my college elected to get this one in its place. I don't understand. The other ornament wasn't perfect, but it was perfectly qualified for its position on my tree; much more qualified than the one I ended up with.

Damn... I have to go. There's a group of carolers in white cloaks on my lawn.

Quote
I put this on my shelf next to my Russian nesting doll ornaments, which have embraced it with open arms and tiny hands. Unfortunately the ornament has random nonsensical outbursts, so out to the garbage it went.

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Fun With Matches on December 06, 2017, 04:31:46 PM
 :lol1:




This one is good too!

Quote
I put this on my tree and the next morning I found all the ornaments of color on the floor. Now for some strange reason the colored lights will not work. Will be returning it.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Pyraxis on December 06, 2017, 11:00:43 PM
Quote
My office puts up a tree every year and we pool resources to get a really nice ornament, usually on the pricey side. For example, 8 years ago we got a really nice, hand crafted ornament from Hawaii. We liked it so much, we decided to get another one just like it 4 years later. Well, this year we all got together and chose a sedate, classy ornament from a shop in New York. My New York friends swore by their work and so we voted and chose it.
But then this red and gold POS showed up in the mail and we can't figure out why! We went through the vote hat again and we definitely voted for the New York piece with overwhelming numbers. I'm a bit worried that our manager, who thinks he's special and soooo sELECTIVE, might have gone over our heads and ordered this one instead.

It turns out we can't get a refund and now we're stuck with the ugly thing. We put it on the side of the tree facing the wall, but it must be bewitched or something because it keeps reappearing at the top of the tree every morning! We found our angel topper in the corner crying. We don't know what happened and she says she's afraid to tell us =/
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 07, 2017, 12:35:47 AM
:LMAO:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 08, 2017, 02:38:25 AM
Has his unilateral decision to recognise Jerusalem anything to do with a $35 million campaign contribution?

He truly will be remembered as the best president ever.  (Bu Putin and Netanyahu).
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 08, 2017, 04:41:53 AM
Has his unilateral decision to recognise Jerusalem anything to do with a $35 million campaign contribution?

He truly will be remembered as the best president ever.  (Bu Putin and Netanyahu).

May have more than a little bit to do with the fact that his daughter and son in law are Jewish and I guess some of his grandkids AND he got on so very well with Netanyahu? I mean if you had to call it and having seen how consistent he has been on Israel since before he became President.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Minister Of Silly Walks on December 08, 2017, 06:48:53 AM
Back to the Trump Christmas ornament, because funny.

Quote
My husband like this ornament so much. It small so he can hold in his leetle hands. He look at it all night and no come to my bedroom so I like too! Wish could give all stars but it smell like pee and cheap Russia perfume. Also, can only use with white lights and ornaments and one very ugly elf ornaments that come with it.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 08, 2017, 02:28:52 PM
Has his unilateral decision to recognise Jerusalem anything to do with a $35 million campaign contribution?

He truly will be remembered as the best president ever.  (Bu Putin and Netanyahu).

May have more than a little bit to do with the fact that his daughter and son in law are Jewish and I guess some of his grandkids AND he got on so very well with Netanyahu? I mean if you had to call it and having seen how consistent he has been on Israel since before he became President.

Possibly.  And also, maybe,  something to do with Sheldon Adelson spunking up $35 million dollars. 

I also suspect that Trump likes this a guy because he's the only person on the planet with an even shittier hairstyle.

You may want to argue the toss on the first point, but come on...  I've got truth on my side for the second.  I present the court with exhibit "A", one of the top two most embarrassing comb-overs in the US.


(https://972static-rsvpteamltd1.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Adelson.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 09, 2017, 02:16:16 AM
The fact remains that his Jerusalem move pretty much wrecked any chance of the US contributing to an actual peace agreement between Israel and Palestine. Stupid is what stupid does.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 09, 2017, 11:36:29 AM
The fact remains that his Jerusalem move pretty much wrecked any chance of the US contributing to an actual peace agreement between Israel and Palestine. Stupid is what stupid does.

Never really understood his attraction to Israel but am indifferent to it.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 09, 2017, 12:40:47 PM
Indifferent to any attempt at peace, too?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 09, 2017, 01:31:42 PM
Indifferent to any attempt at peace, too?

There will NEVER be peace in Israel. Never would be either. Palestinians made their home on old deserted settlements thousands of years ago only to have the original inhabitants people come back to their "Holy Land" and and lay claim to all of it.

There is no compromise in that. It is two different but conflicting rights over the exact piece of land.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 10, 2017, 02:49:52 AM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 10, 2017, 04:47:29 AM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.

Meh
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 10, 2017, 03:23:23 PM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.

Like you know anything.  There will never be peace as long as the racist ideology of Zionism is around.  Israel doesn't want peace and never has. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 10, 2017, 03:27:10 PM
And all the crap about Trump being a Russian puppet some of you idiots were spewing for ages.  Turns out, just like every US President.  Trump is an Israeli puppet.  His son in law and Netanyahu are calling the shots.  That's what Flynn was talking to the Russians about, trying to get Russia to veto the resolution about Israel's racial colonies.  The Kusners are so tied up with the Israeli government, that Netanyahu has slept in Jared's bed.  :facepalm2:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 10, 2017, 03:32:08 PM
People are still touting Trump as Hitler.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 10, 2017, 03:40:08 PM
This week it was Iran as the Nazis.  The US/Israeli/media establishment just calls everyone Hitler/Nazis they don't like. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 10, 2017, 05:50:22 PM
  :yawn:

(https://i.imgur.com/kOMnZy8.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 11, 2017, 01:13:19 AM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.

Like you know anything.  There will never be peace as long as the racist ideology of Zionism is around.  Israel doesn't want peace and never has.

Benji! You're back!

From the looks of this, your solution doesn't seem to be a particularly peaceful one but I'll bite: what is it?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 11, 2017, 01:15:05 AM
  :yawn:

(https://i.imgur.com/kOMnZy8.jpg)

 :lol1:

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/38/7d/7f387dbaad9abaa1ec36deda45ac14ca.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 11, 2017, 02:30:48 PM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.

Like you know anything.  There will never be peace as long as the racist ideology of Zionism is around.  Israel doesn't want peace and never has.

Benji! You're back!

From the looks of this, your solution doesn't seem to be a particularly peaceful one but I'll bite: what is it?

I never leave or come back.  Glad you missed me though!

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Jack on December 11, 2017, 04:35:03 PM
  :yawn:

(https://i.imgur.com/kOMnZy8.jpg)

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 
~Romans 13:1-2
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Jack on December 11, 2017, 04:36:32 PM
I never leave or come back.  Glad you missed me though!
Can't quote the image, but that sounds about right.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 11, 2017, 07:39:08 PM


Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 
~Romans 13:1-2

I better get a bus rental then, a lot of us are going straight to hell. We might as well save gas.  :zoinks:

The voice is sooo much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87OO517SIAs

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Jack on December 11, 2017, 07:50:09 PM
:laugh:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Fun With Matches on December 11, 2017, 08:04:46 PM
 :laugh: too!
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 12, 2017, 12:22:15 AM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.

Like you know anything.  There will never be peace as long as the racist ideology of Zionism is around.  Israel doesn't want peace and never has.

Benji! You're back!

From the looks of this, your solution doesn't seem to be a particularly peaceful one but I'll bite: what is it?

I never leave or come back.  Glad you missed me though!

I'd say your solution is... interesting. I can see a few practical difficulties with it, though.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 12, 2017, 12:23:48 AM


Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 
~Romans 13:1-2

I better get a bus rental then, a lot of us are going straight to hell. We might as well save gas.  :zoinks:

The voice is sooo much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87OO517SIAs

 :lol1:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 12, 2017, 03:18:22 AM


Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 
~Romans 13:1-2

I better get a bus rental then, a lot of us are going straight to hell. We might as well save gas.  :zoinks:

The voice is sooo much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87OO517SIAs

Who is the child molester that Trump is supposedly endorsing. It is not an ALLEGED child molester with no legal find or evidence against him is it? Because THAT has NEVER been the basis of fact or truth.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: DirtDawg on December 12, 2017, 07:46:58 AM


Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 
~Romans 13:1-2

I better get a bus rental then, a lot of us are going straight to hell. We might as well save gas.  :zoinks:

The voice is sooo much better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87OO517SIAs

Who is the child molester that Trump is supposedly endorsing. It is not an ALLEGED child molester with no legal find or evidence against him is it? Because THAT has NEVER been the basis of fact or truth.

Does not really matter who it might be. All it takes to be guilty in this climate is one accusation from thirty years ago and the verdict is confirmed, sentencing to follow. The crazy part is the bandwagon jumpers pile up like cord wood after thirty years.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Pyraxis on December 12, 2017, 08:14:44 AM
Yeah, this whole trend of judging everyone and their brother, including people who've been dead for decades or even centuries, based on current cultural mores that they were never even exposed to, is a load of bullshit.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 12, 2017, 09:22:54 AM
Roy Moore is the "child molester". He is up for election to the senate in Alabama and endorsed by Trump.

One of his accusers was 14, and he was banned from the local mall for harassing teenage girls.

He also believes women shouldn't serve as judges and belong in the home, slavery was basically a good thing, and same sex marriage is evil.   

They could have went with child molester because "perverted, bigoted old POS" is a lot to fit on a campaign sign.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 12, 2017, 11:33:19 AM
Thankfully your views aren't shared by everyone.

Like you know anything.  There will never be peace as long as the racist ideology of Zionism is around.  Israel doesn't want peace and never has.

Benji! You're back!

From the looks of this, your solution doesn't seem to be a particularly peaceful one but I'll bite: what is it?

I never leave or come back.  Glad you missed me though!

I'd say your solution is... interesting. I can see a few practical difficulties with it, though.

It's just a joke, though it would be a good idea.  I think ancient alien Israel has to go.  The first step would be to get the US to withdraw support for them. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 12, 2017, 01:23:45 PM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 12, 2017, 05:25:00 PM
  :yawn:

(https://i.imgur.com/kOMnZy8.jpg)

What was that for exactly?  Not mature enough to admit you got it wrong?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 12, 2017, 05:26:39 PM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.

I know.  There are only two ways.  Break the taboo surrounding "The Holocaust".  Or for people to know the Israeli role in 9/11. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 12, 2017, 06:25:55 PM

  :yawn:



What was that for exactly?  Not mature enough to admit you got it wrong?

Well since you asked...you bore me benji...plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

...and as for being "wrong",  :laugh: we'll see. Personally, I think the party is just beginning.

Whether end game will come because of him playing games with Putin, a paper trail of dirty money & business dealings, his total incompetence, pissed off women out for blood, or his unending love of fast food I don't know.

There is so much going on it's like a sad game of place your bet.
Which one will finish first?   
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: DirtDawg on December 12, 2017, 07:54:41 PM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.
That will be very unlikely to ever happen. Considering the current political trends, Israel is mostly considered to be USA's most faithful, dependable and loyal ally.

I can understand and foresee many "types" and political, racial or variously conjunctive groups who would want to break this bond, but why ON EARTH would any westernized nation ever want to see the USA turn its back on Israel?
 :roar:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 13, 2017, 01:13:44 AM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.

I know.  There are only two ways.  Break the taboo surrounding "The Holocaust".  Or for people to know the Israeli role in 9/11.

That last bit is just tinfoil stuff.  As for the "taboo", what, exactly, are you referring to? The legislation in some countries?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 13, 2017, 01:15:03 AM

  :yawn:



What was that for exactly?  Not mature enough to admit you got it wrong?

Well since you asked...you bore me benji...plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

...and as for being "wrong",  :laugh: we'll see. Personally, I think the party is just beginning.

Whether end game will come because of him playing games with Putin, a paper trail of dirty money & business dealings, his total incompetence, pissed off women out for blood, or his unending love of fast food I don't know.

There is so much going on it's like a sad game of place your bet.
Which one will finish first?   

Looking forward to most of it, whichever comes first. I'm betting they all will.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 13, 2017, 01:16:58 AM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.
That will be very unlikely to ever happen. Considering the current political trends, Israel is mostly considered to be USA's most faithful, dependable and loyal ally.

I can understand and foresee many "types" and political, racial or variously conjunctive groups who would want to break this bond, but why ON EARTH would any westernized nation ever want to see the USA turn its back on Israel?
 :roar:

The kooks would, mainly.

I would like to see a more balanced approach from the US, but that will obviously have to wait until the idiot in the White House is gone.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 13, 2017, 11:02:13 AM

  :yawn:



What was that for exactly?  Not mature enough to admit you got it wrong?

Well since you asked...you bore me benji...plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

...and as for being "wrong",  :laugh: we'll see. Personally, I think the party is just beginning.

Whether end game will come because of him playing games with Putin, a paper trail of dirty money & business dealings, his total incompetence, pissed off women out for blood, or his unending love of fast food I don't know.

There is so much going on it's like a sad game of place your bet.
Which one will finish first?   

Being proved wrong must get boring.

So the like the headline said, he's guilty, just not sure what of.

The establishment hasn't accepted the result.  But they can't go after him for corruption when they are more corrupted.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 13, 2017, 11:07:11 AM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.

I know.  There are only two ways.  Break the taboo surrounding "The Holocaust".  Or for people to know the Israeli role in 9/11.

That last bit is just tinfoil stuff.  As for the "taboo", what, exactly, are you referring to? The legislation in some countries?

Na.  There's FBI files and TV footage.  Tinfoil stuff was the crap you were pushing about Russia hacking the election and Trump being a Russian puppet.

That and not allowing revisionism and the mainstream media and Hollywood still pushing lies and debunked propaganda.  Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 13, 2017, 11:10:22 AM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.
That will be very unlikely to ever happen. Considering the current political trends, Israel is mostly considered to be USA's most faithful, dependable and loyal ally.

I can understand and foresee many "types" and political, racial or variously conjunctive groups who would want to break this bond, but why ON EARTH would any westernized nation ever want to see the USA turn its back on Israel?
 :roar:

The kooks would, mainly.

I would like to see a more balanced approach from the US, but that will obviously have to wait until the idiot in the White House is gone.

Na.  A lot of left wing Jews in the US, because they can no longer identify with being liberal while supporting Israel's insane policies.  Doesn't matter who the President is, they all grab their ankles for Israel.  Obama was probably the worst.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Calandale on December 13, 2017, 11:34:08 AM

 Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts.


Proper nouns have their purpose.




Unless you don't believe in individuation at any level.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 13, 2017, 11:53:01 AM

Being proved wrong must get boring.

So the like the headline said, he's guilty, just not sure what of.

The establishment hasn't accepted the result.  But they can't go after him for corruption when they are more corrupted.

They are not going to release shit all at once, and they wouldn't have taken it this far if they were "just" chasing ghosts either.

Trump has been playing the harp to all the religious zealots since he took office. No one wants chaos, it's bad enough here in places now. 

You are a dipshit. Go sip your cherry kool aid.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 13, 2017, 02:02:22 PM

 Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts.


Proper nouns have their purpose.




Unless you don't believe in individuation at any level.

Yeah in this case, to indoctrinate people.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 13, 2017, 02:05:20 PM

Being proved wrong must get boring.

So the like the headline said, he's guilty, just not sure what of.

The establishment hasn't accepted the result.  But they can't go after him for corruption when they are more corrupted.

They are not going to release shit all at once, and they wouldn't have taken it this far if they were "just" chasing ghosts either.

Trump has been playing the harp to all the religious zealots since he took office. No one wants chaos, it's bad enough here in places now. 

You are a dipshit. Go sip your cherry kool aid.

No course not sweets.  They will come up with some crap most likely, but no hard evidence. 

The only substantial thing that came up was about Flynn and Kushner, which turned out to be about Israel, not Russia.  And the media and the Dems can't go after Israel haha. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 13, 2017, 02:46:08 PM

Being proved wrong must get boring.

So the like the headline said, he's guilty, just not sure what of.

The establishment hasn't accepted the result.  But they can't go after him for corruption when they are more corrupted.

They are not going to release shit all at once, and they wouldn't have taken it this far if they were "just" chasing ghosts either.

Trump has been playing the harp to all the religious zealots since he took office. No one wants chaos, it's bad enough here in places now. 

You are a dipshit. Go sip your cherry kool aid.

No course not sweets.  They will come up with some crap most likely, but no hard evidence. 

The only substantial thing that came up was about Flynn and Kushner, which turned out to be about Israel, not Russia.  And the media and the Dems can't go after Israel haha.

I guess we're all going to have to wait and see what happens.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 13, 2017, 04:37:29 PM

I guess we're all going to have to wait and see what happens.

That's about it.

Nothing now until the New Year. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 14, 2017, 12:44:50 AM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.

I know.  There are only two ways.  Break the taboo surrounding "The Holocaust".  Or for people to know the Israeli role in 9/11.

That last bit is just tinfoil stuff.  As for the "taboo", what, exactly, are you referring to? The legislation in some countries?

Na.  There's FBI files and TV footage.  Tinfoil stuff was the crap you were pushing about Russia hacking the election and Trump being a Russian puppet.

That and not allowing revisionism and the mainstream media and Hollywood still pushing lies and debunked propaganda.  Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts.

You're not making much sense. There's plenty of evidence of Russia hacking the election. Hollywood pushing lies is essentially true--it's what they do, it's sort of the idea behind fiction.

And why, exactly, do you oppose naming the mass murdering of Jews the Holocaust? Do you doubt it happened? Do you think what happened doesn't matter?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 14, 2017, 12:48:14 AM

 Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts.


Proper nouns have their purpose.




Unless you don't believe in individuation at any level.

Yeah in this case, to indoctrinate people.

What happened is not something that should ever be forgotten. Where is the problem in that?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Minister Of Silly Walks on December 14, 2017, 01:16:49 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

The Ukrainian genocide had a name as well: the Holodomor

The Chechen genocide in the 1940s is called the Aardakh

The Romani (gypsy) genocide is known as the Porajmos

Having names for specific genocides is not unique to the Holocaust. But maybe what makes the Holocaust fairly unique is that the race which was targeted is highly influential in both economic and cultural terms. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 14, 2017, 07:12:33 AM
Well, that's not going to happen. I honestly don't know what it would take.

I know.  There are only two ways.  Break the taboo surrounding "The Holocaust".  Or for people to know the Israeli role in 9/11.

That last bit is just tinfoil stuff.  As for the "taboo", what, exactly, are you referring to? The legislation in some countries?

Na.  There's FBI files and TV footage.  Tinfoil stuff was the crap you were pushing about Russia hacking the election and Trump being a Russian puppet.

That and not allowing revisionism and the mainstream media and Hollywood still pushing lies and debunked propaganda.  Also having a special name for the killing of only one set of people.  If what happened to Jews during WWII was a holocaust, then there have been other holocausts.

You're not making much sense. There's plenty of evidence of Russia hacking the election. Hollywood pushing lies is essentially true--it's what they do, it's sort of the idea behind fiction.

And why, exactly, do you oppose naming the mass murdering of Jews the Holocaust? Do you doubt it happened? Do you think what happened doesn't matter?

There's FBI files and video footage about the Israelis arrested on 9/11.  There is?  Where's that then?  Ugh no, not when they're making films about real events or alleged ones. 

Because there's no need for it.  It's a spit in the face to anyone else or other group that has suffered.  See, you're capitalising it, there's the indoctrination right there.  You need to read "The Holocaust Industry".  There's a lot of exaggerations and propaganda surrounding it and it us used to silence people, to promote war and to stop people criticising Israel.  It matters, it's just not unique.  What happened in Japan was a holocaust by definition.  The genocide of the Native Americans.  Over 2 million killed in Vietnam.  1.5 million in Korea.  Over a million in Iraq through the sanctions and the wars. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 14, 2017, 07:16:43 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

The Ukrainian genocide had a name as well: the Holodomor

The Chechen genocide in the 1940s is called the Aardakh

The Romani (gypsy) genocide is known as the Porajmos

Having names for specific genocides is not unique to the Holocaust. But maybe what makes the Holocaust fairly unique is that the race which was targeted is highly influential in both economic and cultural terms.

Yeah, and how many films have we seen about them?  How many museums in the US about them is there?  How many school kids are exposed to liars about those events.

There's nothing unique at all about that.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 14, 2017, 07:30:57 AM
Trump as Putin's puppet? I am fine with the whole, we don't know what we do not know and even everything has not come out yet. Sure. But THAT does not make any case for Trump being Putin's puppet. IF ANYONE makes that claim they really need to put SOMETHING on the table to support it.

All I see at the moment is Dems hiring Fusion GPS to hire Christopher Steele to make a fake dossier and collaborate with Russians.

That and Donald Trump Junior talked to a Russian lawyer about Adoption and took no action AND that Russian lawyer seems to be tied to Fusion GPS too.

There is some evidence but it is in the other direction. Even the Democrats have pivoted away from Collusion with Russia and to Obstruction of Justice because they realise that there is no political capital in the narrative.

So do ANY of you making these insinuations have ANYTHING? Any evidence at all? Anything tangible?

I am willing to concede ANYTHING could come up and I have NO doubt there will be surprises in store in one way or another but I am not going to say something ridiculous like Hillary is going to jail or Obama will be put away without something pretty big to substantiate it. What have YOU got big to substantiate the Trump is a Putin puppet claim?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 14, 2017, 11:21:24 AM
Their TV's told them.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 14, 2017, 11:46:56 AM
Not what my TV told me. I must own a different brand.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 14, 2017, 12:55:51 PM
Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 14, 2017, 03:37:45 PM
Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Back pedalling from what exactly?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 14, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 14, 2017, 05:51:02 PM
Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least.  :laugh:

Yeah, back peddling from what?  If there's proof of "Russian hacking" i'l admit I was wrong.  That's all it takes.  It's you who needs to get their excuses ready. 

What happened in reality is, someone hacked the DNC server, probably from the inside and leaked Clinton's emails.  Proving what a monster she is.  But instead of getting angry at the monster, the press had trained people to get angry on whoever told on her.  And just blamed the Russians with no evidence.

It's like blaming the person who caught a murdering rapist rather than blaming the murdering rapist.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 14, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uhY7s4o.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 15, 2017, 12:49:01 AM
Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least.  :laugh:

And fun, and a little scary.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 15, 2017, 04:47:21 AM
Time will tell.  I look forward to the future back-pedalling on this subject.

Should be entertaining to say the least.  :laugh:

Yeah, back peddling from what?  If there's proof of "Russian hacking" i'l admit I was wrong.  That's all it takes.  It's you who needs to get their excuses ready. 

What happened in reality is, someone hacked the DNC server, probably from the inside and leaked Clinton's emails.  Proving what a monster she is.  But instead of getting angry at the monster, the press had trained people to get angry on whoever told on her.  And just blamed the Russians with no evidence.

It's like blaming the person who caught a murdering rapist rather than blaming the murdering rapist.

THIS!

I do think it is a little more nuanced. I think that the Russias attempted to hack voting machines and could not get past security. I think they and many other countries were hacking into databases of DNC, Government agencies and so forth. Not too many years ago there was a major breach from China. This shit happens constantly.

HOWEVER some people ALSO internally breached and leaked emails from servers. Many people say it was murdered ex-staffer Seth Rich. I think it was equally as possibly it was Imran Awan or possibly someone else entirely.

So politically biased and motivated intelligence communities and DNC funded IT company realising the breach and way this looked on the face of things when Wikileaks dropped DNC bomb after bomb, concocted a narrative that was easy to swallow and had enough unprovables and enough truth and would be backed by the establishment and the media.

Did Russia meddle in the elections? No question. How? Many ways and as they always have. Did they leak DNC emails to Wikileaks? No. Did the Trump administration collude with Russia to win the election? No.

Did Hillary administration team collude with Russia to win the election? Yes. Did the establishment and Intelligent Agencies falsely and collusively meddle to win the election? Yes.

Was this a case of practically everyone on both sides of the political divide AND the Media AND the Intelligence agencies AND the Russians trying to screw Trump out of any chance he had to win the election because the ends justified the means and they thought him an uncontrollable, unpredictable buffoon and madman not worth of the station of President and so unfit that all things previously out of bounds, were now in play? YES!

The same thing happened with Weapons of Mass Destruction. The ends justified the means. They hated Saddam Hussein and they needed an excuse and they needed him gone and they were willing to forgo truth and fact for convenience to a narrative that would suit their purposes and dressed it up to justify their decisions. It is all political, all preservation of a narrative at all costs.



Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 15, 2017, 05:25:48 AM
On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 15, 2017, 07:02:22 AM
On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.

It is absolutely still out HOWEVER there ARE facts we know and these pretty much all are either unknowable and unable to be found out to prove either way OR reflect REALLY badly on people called names other than Trump.

I could run through a number of things that support some terrible things about the things I talked about in respect to the DNC, Intelligence Agency and Media. All that has come about from their efforts is slowly leaking out and makes a Hell of a case against them but not so much on the initial charges against Trump.

It MAY be that Trump has been politically criminal more that the charges (that also may or not be true) of him being stupid, incompetent, and inept, BUT there is simply no evidence.

Oh that 26 agency thing was bullshit, you know that right?Firstly it was not 26 agencies  (in fact the suggested number was 17), they walked this number back to three https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/pageoneplus/corrections-june-29-2017.html. Those three were actually simply down to three individuals. Clapper, Brennan and Comey

Now we know that Comey was unpopular at FBI and there was a division in the FBI which was exacerbated with the recusal of Hillary with the Peter Strzok rewording.

We know that Clapper lied when under oath in Copngress before

"Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper whether the NSA collected "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans” — to which Clapper said "No, sir ... not wittingly.”"

That was a lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjY_01FRgs&t=62s

Brennan had nothing concrete.

None of these guys are paramours of virtue and they were politically motivated and they do NOT represent all 17 agencies.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 15, 2017, 09:04:19 AM
Rumor mill is saying (not verified) that Jared may be next in line after the holidays.

Stock up on popcorn.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 15, 2017, 10:34:24 AM
On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.

It is absolutely still out HOWEVER there ARE facts we know and these pretty much all are either unknowable and unable to be found out to prove either way OR reflect REALLY badly on people called names other than Trump.

I could run through a number of things that support some terrible things about the things I talked about in respect to the DNC, Intelligence Agency and Media. All that has come about from their efforts is slowly leaking out and makes a Hell of a case against them but not so much on the initial charges against Trump.

It MAY be that Trump has been politically criminal more that the charges (that also may or not be true) of him being stupid, incompetent, and inept, BUT there is simply no evidence.

Oh that 26 agency thing was bullshit, you know that right?Firstly it was not 26 agencies  (in fact the suggested number was 17), they walked this number back to three https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/pageoneplus/corrections-june-29-2017.html. Those three were actually simply down to three individuals. Clapper, Brennan and Comey

Now we know that Comey was unpopular at FBI and there was a division in the FBI which was exacerbated with the recusal of Hillary with the Peter Strzok rewording.

We know that Clapper lied when under oath in Copngress before

"Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper whether the NSA collected "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans” — to which Clapper said "No, sir ... not wittingly.”"

That was a lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjY_01FRgs&t=62s

Brennan had nothing concrete.

None of these guys are paramours of virtue and they were politically motivated and they do NOT represent all 17 agencies.

Time.  Will.  Tell.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 15, 2017, 11:21:36 AM
On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.

It is absolutely still out HOWEVER there ARE facts we know and these pretty much all are either unknowable and unable to be found out to prove either way OR reflect REALLY badly on people called names other than Trump.

I could run through a number of things that support some terrible things about the things I talked about in respect to the DNC, Intelligence Agency and Media. All that has come about from their efforts is slowly leaking out and makes a Hell of a case against them but not so much on the initial charges against Trump.

It MAY be that Trump has been politically criminal more that the charges (that also may or not be true) of him being stupid, incompetent, and inept, BUT there is simply no evidence.

Oh that 26 agency thing was bullshit, you know that right?Firstly it was not 26 agencies  (in fact the suggested number was 17), they walked this number back to three https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/29/pageoneplus/corrections-june-29-2017.html. Those three were actually simply down to three individuals. Clapper, Brennan and Comey

Now we know that Comey was unpopular at FBI and there was a division in the FBI which was exacerbated with the recusal of Hillary with the Peter Strzok rewording.

We know that Clapper lied when under oath in Copngress before

"Sen. Ron Wyden asked Clapper whether the NSA collected "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans” — to which Clapper said "No, sir ... not wittingly.”"

That was a lie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjY_01FRgs&t=62s

Brennan had nothing concrete.

None of these guys are paramours of virtue and they were politically motivated and they do NOT represent all 17 agencies.

Time.  Will.  Tell.

One thing I want to ask, as you and others have said over and over again "What will (those that do not buy the Trump colluded with Russia to meddle in the election without evidence) do when it turns out that Trump did collude with Putin", what will YOU guys do if it is proved that there was NO evidence that he did AFTER the investigation.

Here is another tidbit

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/14/comey-draft-said-it-was-reasonably-likely-that-hillarys-server-was-hacked/

"The FBI assessed last year that it was “reasonably likely” that Hillary Clinton’s private email server had been infiltrated by hostile foreign actors.

But that assessment was watered down in remarks prepared last year for then-FBI Director James Comey. It was replaced with softer language stating that it was “possible” that hostile actors had gained access to Clinton’s server, which contained thousands of classified documents.

The edit was revealed on Thursday in a letter sent by Senate Homeland Security Committee chairman Ron Johnson to FBI Director Christopher Wray."

Reasonably likely? I thought it was definitely hacked? Definitely hacked by Russia? Definitely on say so from the Kremlin? To aid Trump? No?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 15, 2017, 01:36:37 PM
On the one hand we have the word of all 26 US agencies concerned with law and order or national security, along with all similar European agencies, most western press and pretty much anyone with a pulse..

And on the other side of the argument we have Trump's fans, Putin, Julian "I-didn't-rape-her" Assange and famous British nazi shit head Nigel Farage.

It's going to be interesting to find out which side of the argument is proven to be right about this.

Time will tell.  Let's wait and see.  Let's just say that the Jury is still out.

How stupid are you?  The 'intelligence' agencies lie all the time.  One of the biggest set of lies on recent times was about the Iraq war.  Saddam having weapons on mass destruction and bring connected to Al Qaeda.  They all knowingly lied to sell a war.  When will people like you fucking learn?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 15, 2017, 01:39:56 PM
On the other side we have independent media.  Farage isn't a Nazi you fucking imbecile.  And it has been admitted that the rape claims were fabricated.  It's all to try and get him extradited to the US so they can lock him away, for telling the truth about corruption and war crimes! 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Icequeen on December 15, 2017, 04:29:07 PM
Now for a scheduled commercial break.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFNeVL7BO7Y
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 16, 2017, 03:02:42 AM
Now for a scheduled commercial break.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFNeVL7BO7Y

:laugh: +
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 16, 2017, 03:05:13 AM
On the other side we have independent media.  Farage isn't a Nazi you fucking imbecile.  And it has been admitted that the rape claims were fabricated.  It's all to try and get him extradited to the US so they can lock him away, for telling the truth about corruption and war crimes!

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/c/c6/Argument-Ancient-Aliens.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131011184916)

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 16, 2017, 07:10:00 AM
On the other side we have independent media.  Farage isn't a Nazi you fucking imbecile.  And it has been admitted that the rape claims were fabricated.  It's all to try and get him extradited to the US so they can lock him away, for telling the truth about corruption and war crimes!

Having to resort to insults because your arguments aren't holding water?

Firstly, you have no place telling me what Nigel Farage is or isn't.  We've been following his slime trail for decades before Fox and Friends and Alex Jones told you what to believe about him.  You wouldn't know a Nazi if one tried to get elected to high office in Alabama.

Secondly, the smaller charges of molestation and unlawful coercion were dropped against Assange because there is a legal time limit within which he has to be questioned and that time limit ran out while he was hiding in an Embassy.  The rape case was dropped a little later as the Swedish authorities decided that it was impossible to serve him notice of the prosecution.  At no time has anything been found to be fabricated.

As far as I am aware the only issues outstanding are his breaking bail conditions, which is something that usually isn't prosecuted in the UK unless you have failed to appear at court.

Interesting that you seem to be a fan of Assange.  A man who repeatedly damages America and backs Putin.  Personally I'm not surprised.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 16, 2017, 07:11:45 AM
Race to the finish begins next week perhaps?   If Mueller tries to indict Kushner or Don Junior (as is rumoured), Trump will be forced to try and replace him as it will be only one more step to him.

Who will show their hand first?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 07:36:00 AM
On the other side we have independent media.  Farage isn't a Nazi you fucking imbecile.  And it has been admitted that the rape claims were fabricated.  It's all to try and get him extradited to the US so they can lock him away, for telling the truth about corruption and war crimes!

Having to resort to insults because your arguments aren't holding water?

Firstly, you have no place telling me what Nigel Farage is or isn't.  We've been following his slime trail for decades before Fox and Friends and Alex Jones told you what to believe about him.  You wouldn't know a Nazi if one tried to get elected to high office in Alabama.

Secondly, the smaller charges of molestation and unlawful coercion were dropped against Assange because there is a legal time limit within which he has to be questioned and that time limit ran out while he was hiding in an Embassy.  The rape case was dropped a little later as the Swedish authorities decided that it was impossible to serve him notice of the prosecution.  At no time has anything been found to be fabricated.

As far as I am aware the only issues outstanding are his breaking bail conditions, which is something that usually isn't prosecuted in the UK unless you have failed to appear at court.

Interesting that you seem to be a fan of Assange.  A man who repeatedly damages America and backs Putin.  Personally I'm not surprised.

No, it's because you're making bullshit accusations. 

Trying to stop mass immigration isn't Nazism.  I knew about Nigel Farage long before I knew of Alex Jones.  And I don't listen to that fake cunt anyway.  You obviously know nothing about Nazism if you think Farage is one.  You're just a retard with a mental illness that sees isms everywhere. 

Doesn't matter why they were dropped.  One of the women said the police made the allegations up.  It is all political.  If Assange didn't do what he does he wouldn't be wanted by the police.  Just look at what happened to Manning and Snowden.  If you tell these unwanted truths, you're gonna get locked up.  From what I've seen of Assange I think he could be on the spectrum.

"Damages America"?  What, their war industry?  Fucking right I back him for that.  Cool that you support mass murder though.  When has he "backed putin"?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 07:40:21 AM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 16, 2017, 08:38:08 AM
One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

As far as I know, quite the opposite.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 16, 2017, 06:17:15 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

I'm only quoting this because I never want it to go away or get deleted.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 16, 2017, 06:24:20 PM
Doesn't matter why they were dropped.

It mattered to you when you claimed they were fabricated.

One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

Which woman said this and when?  Can you post some sort of link to this information?

It is all political.  If Assange didn't do what he does he wouldn't be wanted by the police.  Just look at what happened to Manning and Snowden.  If you tell these unwanted truths, you're gonna get locked up.

You also get locked up in Sweden for sexual offences against women. I think that's quite pertinent to Assange's situation.


From what I've seen of Assange I think he could be on the spectrum.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.  I'm on the spectrum and I don't act like Putin's cock piece.  Neither do I sleaze up women in Sweden.

"Damages America"?  What, their war industry?  Fucking right I back him for that.  Cool that you support mass murder though.  When has he "backed putin"?

I'm not American, but I would think that a propaganda machine that makes idiots on forums doubt their own intelligence agencies and law enforcement and instead believe the workings of hostile foreign powers would count as damaging America.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 16, 2017, 06:30:32 PM
Doesn't matter why they were dropped.

It mattered to you when you claimed they were fabricated.

One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

Which woman said this and when?  Can you post some sort of link to this information?

It is all political.  If Assange didn't do what he does he wouldn't be wanted by the police.  Just look at what happened to Manning and Snowden.  If you tell these unwanted truths, you're gonna get locked up.

You also get locked up in Sweden for sexual offences against women. I think that's quite pertinent to Assange's situation.


From what I've seen of Assange I think he could be on the spectrum.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.  I'm on the spectrum and I don't act like Putin's cock piece.  Neither do I sleaze up women in Sweden.

"Damages America"?  What, their war industry?  Fucking right I back him for that.  Cool that you support mass murder though.  When has he "backed putin"?

I'm not American, but I would think that a propaganda machine that makes idiots on forums doubt their own intelligence agencies and law enforcement and instead believe the workings of hostile foreign powers would count as damaging America.

There were ALLEGATIONS. Were they true or were they false?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 08:59:39 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

I'm only quoting this because I never want it to go away or get deleted.

It is a kooky conspiracy theory.  There's no evidence for it.  If it turns out to be true, I have no problem admitting it was true.  I am only interested in the truth.  If it turns out that Russians hacked the moon landing, i'll admit to that too. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 16, 2017, 09:07:16 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

He thinks you are an American. A Right wing American Southerner. He is creating this template to excoriate.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 09:12:49 PM
Doesn't matter why they were dropped.

It mattered to you when you claimed they were fabricated.

One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

Which woman said this and when?  Can you post some sort of link to this information?

It is all political.  If Assange didn't do what he does he wouldn't be wanted by the police.  Just look at what happened to Manning and Snowden.  If you tell these unwanted truths, you're gonna get locked up.

You also get locked up in Sweden for sexual offences against women. I think that's quite pertinent to Assange's situation.


From what I've seen of Assange I think he could be on the spectrum.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.  I'm on the spectrum and I don't act like Putin's cock piece.  Neither do I sleaze up women in Sweden.

"Damages America"?  What, their war industry?  Fucking right I back him for that.  Cool that you support mass murder though.  When has he "backed putin"?

I'm not American, but I would think that a propaganda machine that makes idiots on forums doubt their own intelligence agencies and law enforcement and instead believe the workings of hostile foreign powers would count as damaging America.

Yeah, type in "Police made up rape claims about Assange".  You get a range of articles.  I read through all of them.  None of them are pro Assange, even the RT article actually.  Even Noam Chomsky who supported Clinton said about the claims being made up by the police.  Personally, I think Assange is a freak and a weirdo and he crossed the line sexually.  He tried to have sex with a woman without a condom when she wanted him to wear one.  I personally think that's an insult to women who have been raped to call that rape.  The other women, had sex with him and then he tried it on with her when they were in her bed the second time but she didn't want it.  Like I said, the guy is a freak.  But this is his sex life, completely seperate to the facts about the Iraq war etc.  But this is why these allegations have been made such an issue, to distract people from the real issues.  Can't you see that?

Again, any evidence that he supported Putin? 

The 'intelligence' agencies lie all the time.  You'd have to be literally moronic, brainwashed or insane to believe them after the Iraq war. 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 09:14:30 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

He thinks you are an American. A Right wing American Southerner. He is creating this template to excoriate.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one.  I didn't think he was that dumb even.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 16, 2017, 09:24:54 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

He thinks you are an American. A Right wing American Southerner. He is creating this template to excoriate.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one.  I didn't think he was that dumb even.

Now that I have shone the spotlight on it, I doubt he will own it. Essentially have an opinion right of far Progressive Left and you are a Nazi sympathiser, fascist, Southern Far Right Wing imbecile. It is kind of stupid but it is ideological playbook for dealing with people with differing political views.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 16, 2017, 09:27:12 PM
Benji, you mentioned that Israel was behind 9/11. As mentioned, I am pretty indifferent to Israel. But I am wondering how Israel would be working with Saudis in respect to the attacks or what is exactly going on there.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 09:46:42 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

He thinks you are an American. A Right wing American Southerner. He is creating this template to excoriate.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one.  I didn't think he was that dumb even.

Now that I have shone the spotlight on it, I doubt he will own it. Essentially have an opinion right of far Progressive Left and you are a Nazi sympathiser, fascist, Southern Far Right Wing imbecile. It is kind of stupid but it is ideological playbook for dealing with people with differing political views.

I always have faith that someone is willing to have a rational argument.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 16, 2017, 09:51:01 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

He thinks you are an American. A Right wing American Southerner. He is creating this template to excoriate.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one.  I didn't think he was that dumb even.

Now that I have shone the spotlight on it, I doubt he will own it. Essentially have an opinion right of far Progressive Left and you are a Nazi sympathiser, fascist, Southern Far Right Wing imbecile. It is kind of stupid but it is ideological playbook for dealing with people with differing political views.

I always have faith that someone is willing to have a rational argument.

You are not a Progressive Leftist
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 09:56:05 PM
Benji, you mentioned that Israel was behind 9/11. As mentioned, I am pretty indifferent to Israel. But I am wondering how Israel would be working with Saudis in respect to the attacks or what is exactly going on there.

The Saudis financed the attacks.  Israel were the machine behind it.  The US/Saudis and Israel have a pact.  You can see this now in Yemen and Syria.  In Syria, the Saudis are financing the terrorists who are Al Qaeda and ISIS.  Israel are bombing the Syrian army acting as Al Qaeda's air force and treating Al Qaeda Jihadists in their hospitals.  The US supported these 'rebels' under Obama but Trump cut off supplies to these Jihadists in July.  In Yemen, the Saudis have been bombing schools and hospitals with UK and US weapons and Israeli support. 

Numerous Israelis were arrested on 9/11, some with traces of explosives in their van and some with explosives in their van on the George Washington Bridge.  The evidence is here-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8EweNlo8LA
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 09:57:42 PM
And here

https://www.scribd.com/lists/4010452/9-11-The-Dancing-Israelis-FBI-report
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: benjimanbreeg on December 16, 2017, 09:58:21 PM
And don't accuse me of listening to people like Alex Jones when you believe in kooky conspiracy theories like Russia hacking the election.

He thinks you are an American. A Right wing American Southerner. He is creating this template to excoriate.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one.  I didn't think he was that dumb even.

Now that I have shone the spotlight on it, I doubt he will own it. Essentially have an opinion right of far Progressive Left and you are a Nazi sympathiser, fascist, Southern Far Right Wing imbecile. It is kind of stupid but it is ideological playbook for dealing with people with differing political views.

I always have faith that someone is willing to have a rational argument.

You are not a Progressive Leftist

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 17, 2017, 02:28:13 AM
Doesn't matter why they were dropped.

It mattered to you when you claimed they were fabricated.

One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

Which woman said this and when?  Can you post some sort of link to this information?

It is all political.  If Assange didn't do what he does he wouldn't be wanted by the police.  Just look at what happened to Manning and Snowden.  If you tell these unwanted truths, you're gonna get locked up.

You also get locked up in Sweden for sexual offences against women. I think that's quite pertinent to Assange's situation.


From what I've seen of Assange I think he could be on the spectrum.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.  I'm on the spectrum and I don't act like Putin's cock piece.  Neither do I sleaze up women in Sweden.

"Damages America"?  What, their war industry?  Fucking right I back him for that.  Cool that you support mass murder though.  When has he "backed putin"?

I'm not American, but I would think that a propaganda machine that makes idiots on forums doubt their own intelligence agencies and law enforcement and instead believe the workings of hostile foreign powers would count as damaging America.

There were ALLEGATIONS. Were they true or were they false?

Which allegations are you talking about? Assange? You know perfectly well what happened.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 17, 2017, 02:34:15 AM
Do you have some kind of proof here, Benji?

One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 17, 2017, 05:05:54 AM
The only shit I can see that casts doubt on the Assange allegations are on Putin Today.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 17, 2017, 05:18:58 AM
Here's an idea.  Why don't Benji and Al start an insult and 911 thread somewhere else, and the grown ups will stay here and talk about the thread subject?

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 17, 2017, 05:35:55 AM
Here's an idea.  Why don't Benji and Al start an insult and 911 thread somewhere else, and the grown ups will stay here and talk about the thread subject?

Or a better idea, how about you get your head out of your arse and come to realise that you have AN opinion. NOT THE opinion. Not the truth, the most mature,  the moral benchmark, not the most intellectual opinion BUT just AN opinion. But if YOU want to fuck off that would be fine. I will post wherever I damn well please. Hope that is understood. It is, isn't it, dumbarse?
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 17, 2017, 05:38:50 AM
Doesn't matter why they were dropped.

It mattered to you when you claimed they were fabricated.

One of the women said the police made the allegations up.

Which woman said this and when?  Can you post some sort of link to this information?

It is all political.  If Assange didn't do what he does he wouldn't be wanted by the police.  Just look at what happened to Manning and Snowden.  If you tell these unwanted truths, you're gonna get locked up.

You also get locked up in Sweden for sexual offences against women. I think that's quite pertinent to Assange's situation.


From what I've seen of Assange I think he could be on the spectrum.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.  I'm on the spectrum and I don't act like Putin's cock piece.  Neither do I sleaze up women in Sweden.

"Damages America"?  What, their war industry?  Fucking right I back him for that.  Cool that you support mass murder though.  When has he "backed putin"?

I'm not American, but I would think that a propaganda machine that makes idiots on forums doubt their own intelligence agencies and law enforcement and instead believe the workings of hostile foreign powers would count as damaging America.

There were ALLEGATIONS. Were they true or were they false?

Which allegations are you talking about? Assange? You know perfectly well what happened.

Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Minister Of Silly Walks on December 17, 2017, 06:37:37 AM
More to the point: Assange was accused of raping a woman and,rather than facing those accusations, he went and hid in an embassy for more than 5 years.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 17, 2017, 06:55:27 AM
More to the point: Assange was accused of raping a woman and,rather than facing those accusations, he went and hid in an embassy for more than 5 years.

You, of course, mean "rather than risk being deported to America as a non-citizen for the kind of enemy of the state charges that he has good reason to believe are waiting for him".

 
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 17, 2017, 08:39:27 AM
Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

Benji brought this subject up.  Benji said that the allegations had been proved to be false.  I just asked for a link to something that showed that.

But once again, whenever I ask for people to quote sources I am met with a tirade of insults and accusations.

I am aware other people have OPINIONS but when they state things as facts I like to see proof.  That's how debate works. 

I draw attention to the fact that you and your chums are getting more and more insulting.  If you can't debate you shouldn't be here.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 17, 2017, 02:22:26 PM
Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

Benji brought this subject up.  Benji said that the allegations had been proved to be false.  I just asked for a link to something that showed that.

But once again, whenever I ask for people to quote sources I am met with a tirade of insults and accusations.

I am aware other people have OPINIONS but when they state things as facts I like to see proof.  That's how debate works. 

I draw attention to the fact that you and your chums are getting more and more insulting.  If you can't debate you shouldn't be here.

Me too, unless something is as plain to see as the nose on your face. The obvious correlation between mental health and gun violence being one.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: FourAceDeal on December 17, 2017, 02:23:24 PM
Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

Benji brought this subject up.  Benji said that the allegations had been proved to be false.  I just asked for a link to something that showed that.

But once again, whenever I ask for people to quote sources I am met with a tirade of insults and accusations.

I am aware other people have OPINIONS but when they state things as facts I like to see proof.  That's how debate works. 

I draw attention to the fact that you and your chums are getting more and more insulting.  If you can't debate you shouldn't be here.

Me too, unless something is as plain to see as the nose on your face. The obvious correlation between mental health and gun violence being one.

Wrong thread.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 17, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

Benji brought this subject up.  Benji said that the allegations had been proved to be false.  I just asked for a link to something that showed that.

But once again, whenever I ask for people to quote sources I am met with a tirade of insults and accusations.

I am aware other people have OPINIONS but when they state things as facts I like to see proof.  That's how debate works. 

I draw attention to the fact that you and your chums are getting more and more insulting.  If you can't debate you shouldn't be here.

Me too, unless something is as plain to see as the nose on your face. The obvious correlation between mental health and gun violence being one.

Wrong thread.

No, it is an example, no matter which thread.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 18, 2017, 12:34:50 AM
Me too, unless something is as plain to see as the nose on your face. The obvious correlation between mental health and gun violence being one.

You'd suck as a scientist.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 18, 2017, 12:37:08 AM
Which allegations are you talking about? Assange? You know perfectly well what happened.

Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

You missed the point. This is what happened:

More to the point: Assange was accused of raping a woman and,rather than facing those accusations, he went and hid in an embassy for more than 5 years.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 18, 2017, 02:54:43 AM
Which allegations are you talking about? Assange? You know perfectly well what happened.

Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

You missed the point. This is what happened:

More to the point: Assange was accused of raping a woman and,rather than facing those accusations, he went and hid in an embassy for more than 5 years.

You missed the point of what happened. The US made it clear that they wanted to extradite him from UK or Sweden to the US first opportunity he had. He was and as far as I know, still is shit scared of being extradited to the US the moment he leaves his Embassy safe hole.

He tried to get assurances that he would not be picked up and flown to the US the moment he stepped out or right after any trial in Sweden and the US made it very clear the moment he was out of the safety of the Equatorial Embassy he was fair game.
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 19, 2017, 12:37:50 AM
Which allegations are you talking about? Assange? You know perfectly well what happened.

Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

You missed the point. This is what happened:

More to the point: Assange was accused of raping a woman and,rather than facing those accusations, he went and hid in an embassy for more than 5 years.

You missed the point of what happened. The US made it clear that they wanted to extradite him from UK or Sweden to the US first opportunity he had. He was and as far as I know, still is shit scared of being extradited to the US the moment he leaves his Embassy safe hole.

He tried to get assurances that he would not be picked up and flown to the US the moment he stepped out or right after any trial in Sweden and the US made it very clear the moment he was out of the safety of the Equatorial Embassy he was fair game.

Except that wasn't how it happened.

At the time of the Ecuadorian Embassy thing starting in 2012, the US had said no such thing. Yes, Assange refused to return to Sweden on those grounds, asking Sweden for assurances, but Sweden simply said that they had had no such request from the US and weren't able to offer generic assurances, only that they would follow Swedish Law. Among other things, that law makes it clear that an extradition request would be denied if he risked the death penalty. Or, for that matter, if he risked not getting a fair trial.

Remember that he fled to the embassy because the UK agreed to turn him over to the Swedish authorities for questioning. No such request had been made by the US at the time and the UK said as much. Also, the US did confirm that Assange was not wanted by them.

Interestingly, Assange wanted to stay in Sweden at the time of the alleged rape. Apparently he then considered Sweden a safe haven. Sweden said no the following year, stating that he did not meet the criteria. Go figure.

Title: Re: Trump
Post by: Al Swearegen on December 19, 2017, 01:51:40 AM
Which allegations are you talking about? Assange? You know perfectly well what happened.

Yes, Assange said he had sex with some women and some women said he sexually assaulted them AND that is all ANYONE knows EXCEPT Assange ad the women who have made the accusations AND anyone pretending to know more than this is an idiot. I think that necessarily includes FourAce but I think they are the only one on this board making such statement based on a dislike for Assange and a stupidity that plagues them.

You missed the point. This is what happened:

More to the point: Assange was accused of raping a woman and,rather than facing those accusations, he went and hid in an embassy for more than 5 years.

You missed the point of what happened. The US made it clear that they wanted to extradite him from UK or Sweden to the US first opportunity he had. He was and as far as I know, still is shit scared of being extradited to the US the moment he leaves his Embassy safe hole.

He tried to get assurances that he would not be picked up and flown to the US the moment he stepped out or right after any trial in Sweden and the US made it very clear the moment he was out of the safety of the Equatorial Embassy he was fair game.

Except that wasn't how it happened.

At the time of the Ecuadorian Embassy thing starting in 2012, the US had said no such thing. Yes, Assange refused to return to Sweden on those grounds, asking Sweden for assurances, but Sweden simply said that they had had no such request from the US and weren't able to offer generic assurances, only that they would follow Swedish Law. Among other things, that law makes it clear that an extradition request would be denied if he risked the death penalty. Or, for that matter, if he risked not getting a fair trial.

Remember that he fled to the embassy because the UK agreed to turn him over to the Swedish authorities for questioning. No such request had been made by the US at the time and the UK said as much. Also, the US did confirm that Assange was not wanted by them.

Interestingly, Assange wanted to stay in Sweden at the time of the alleged rape. Apparently he then considered Sweden a safe haven. Sweden said no the following year, stating that he did not meet the criteria. Go figure.

And now that Sweden has dropped the charges he ISN'T coming out of the Embassy for reasons that seem unconnected to Sweden
Title: Re: Trump
Post by: odeon on December 19, 2017, 12:49:16 PM
Yes, it seems that way. I suppose it is part of the territory in his line of work. He has made lots of enemies and I'd be surprised if the US didn't want to get hold of him now.

For the record, I think Sweden handled this poorly. They should have agreed to interviewing him at the embassy to start with. It would have been easier for everyone involved.

I still don't know what to think about the case as such.