INTENSITY²

Start here => What is Intensity²? => Topic started by: Yuri Bezmenov on November 06, 2017, 07:32:55 AM

Title: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on November 06, 2017, 07:32:55 AM
 odeon
Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
Webmaster
Postwhore Beyond Teh Stupid

 
Posts: 96239
Karma: 4043
[Yay!] [Ghey!]
Gender:
Replacement Despot
 
 
MOVED: Just so everyone knows
« on: Yesterday at 10:06:23 AM »

This topic has been moved to Elder's Forum.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php?topic=24629.0

Report to moderator    Logged
Quote from: Jack on June 13, 2016, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: odeon on June 13, 2016, 03:18:03 PM
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there.

Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on November 06, 2017, 07:39:44 AM
odeon
Witchlet of the Aspie Elite
Webmaster
Postwhore Beyond Teh Stupid

 
Posts: 96239
Karma: 4043
[Yay!] [Ghey!]
Gender:
Replacement Despot
 
 
MOVED: Just so everyone knows
« on: Yesterday at 10:06:23 AM »

This topic has been moved to Elder's Forum.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php?topic=24629.0

Report to moderator    Logged
Quote from: Jack on June 13, 2016, 03:18:53 PM
Quote from: odeon on June 13, 2016, 03:18:03 PM
I know, I know, it's just that I don't know what should be there.

Could put some awesome Jack quote in there.

Talk about passive aggressive.

Ban me without banning me so you don't make the mistake of making me a martyr (it's almost impossible to post at this point, odeon knows this will force me to leave), then delete a topic without deleting it so the public can't see it.

Perhaps we should meet halfway, like in eastern Canada, so we can just end this by me knocking your teeth out.   :boxers:

Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 10:05:07 AM
You're still able to post in it. Why is it important for it to be open to the public?

I started monitoring the mod settings so I can see whether they are actually being increased.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on November 06, 2017, 12:33:10 PM
You're still able to post in it. Why is it important for it to be open to the public?

So that all can see the behavior of the Overlord. It will warn off unsuspecting newcomers.

Quote
I started monitoring the mod settings so I can see whether they are actually being increased.

It's absolutely unacceptable for this to be permanent. I want this mod removed, period
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 06, 2017, 01:26:57 PM
Agreed. This is a personal grudge. Pyraxis have YOU ever had that mod on you? Do YOU realise just how difficult it is to post?

Remember my who will be next post? If Od er on wants to santise this place and kick out anyone who may possibly oppose him (and given there have been no more newbies) in the end he will have a quiet forum where he chats to CBC and her alone
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 08:24:28 PM
You're still able to post in it. Why is it important for it to be open to the public?

So that all can see the behavior of the Overlord. It will warn off unsuspecting newcomers.

Actually I think moving it is more likely to warn newcomers, because the ghost topic has been left behind. If I were new to a forum and I saw stuff like this, I would immediately become suspicious of what was being hidden.

Quote
I started monitoring the mod settings so I can see whether they are actually being increased.

It's absolutely unacceptable for this to be permanent. I want this mod removed, period

I don't agree with the way it's being used. However it also seems pretty pointless for me to get into a button-pressing content with Odeon to take it on or off. One way or another there's got to be a longer term solution to this.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 08:25:33 PM
Agreed. This is a personal grudge. Pyraxis have YOU ever had that mod on you? Do YOU realise just how difficult it is to post?

Remember my who will be next post? If Od er on wants to santise this place and kick out anyone who may possibly oppose him (and given there have been no more newbies) in the end he will have a quiet forum where he chats to CBC and her alone

- Yes, it's a personal grudge
- No, I've never had the mod on me
- I'm well aware of the dangers of sanitizing this place
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Gopher Gary on November 06, 2017, 08:48:51 PM
The memory hole sounds naughty.  :zoinks:
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Gopher Gary on November 06, 2017, 09:03:28 PM
- No, I've never had the mod on me

I like the pop up message.  :orly: I feel neglected. Can I get one too?  :zoinks:
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 09:20:14 PM
If you insist.  :zoinks:
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Gopher Gary on November 06, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
If you insist.  :zoinks:

 :eyelash:  I feel like such a badass.  :zoinks:
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 06, 2017, 09:48:45 PM
Whats been done t0 kek and why, 'raxy?


Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 10:02:23 PM
:eyelash:  I feel like such a badass.  :zoinks:

The gopher is  :viking:
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 10:04:05 PM
Whats been done t0 kek and why, 'raxy?

What rock have you been under?  :P

I can't speak for Odeon on exactly why, but Kek/Scrap's account has a mod applied that makes it experience errors about a quarter of the time.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 06, 2017, 11:18:52 PM
Had a hunch something had been done to him but was unsure what/why/when, although as for WHO...that is pretty damn obvious. I can think of only one who would sink to the use of such a dishonorable mod.

Come to think of it, that is SO dishonorable, so absolutely fucking spineless, and such contemptible cowardice that it quite simply is unacceptable to have as a usable site feature, by mods or anyone else, since its only conceivable purpose is for
those with mod powers to abuse and harass those who cannot retaliate, in the most disgustingly underhanded way. 'Raxy, are you able to dispose of it entirely? not just as applied to kek, but altogether?

Because that is little more acceptable than child porn, so revoltingly underhanded, it inspires in me, the same level of contempt (although it doesn't give me a boner :P)

And it should be gotten rid of. Its unworthy of use by any mod who is also a decent human being, and who possesses the spine and balls to own their actions and words. Anybody who does resort to such tactics is a spineless piece of fermenting excrement unfit for the position of responsibility they must have to be capable of accessing such a tool to use as a weapon against regular users with no such power to retaliate in kind when so abused. And yes, abused, because abuse is all that that tool is capable of being used for.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 06, 2017, 11:50:29 PM
'Raxy, are you able to dispose of it entirely? not just as applied to kek, but altogether?

Yes, but like I said to Al, I'm not inclined to get into a click-war on a forum owned by somebody else who could simply IP-ban me and reinstall it.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 07, 2017, 12:03:08 AM
If odeon did that (I.e IP ban you, one of our most highly respected members out of all of us, he would have blatantly shown his true colors as a gutless, cowardly, spineless, vengeful little jellyfish.)

And I wasn't talking about taking kek off the abuse (I can't bring myself to call it a mod tool, because it is far beneath anybody worthy of the title. Its the sort of scumbag tactic alex plank would keep around, and use), but because it IS a tool for, and ONLY for, abusing ad harassing people, it needs to go. At the bare minimum I think this should be put to a public vote. Creating false errors by stealth in order to make it difficult for people to use the forum is really fucking low, cowardly and abusive. Its dishonest and shows the person responsible to be a soulless little globule of dogshit, festering away in a shallow pool of stagnant marsh-water and becoming evermore a repugnant stain on the face of the earth. Growing viler and less tolerable the more it is permitted to exist, I.e, the more such foul, base tactics are resorted to, the less worthy of respect the cocksucking faggot responsible grows to be.

Whoever is responsible for it, man the fuck up, bitch. Remove this dishonorable garbage and consign it to the trash where it belongs. Or are we all for abuse being OK on I2, now? (or for that matter, is it only some members who are considered worthy of enjoying the privilege of subjecting users to abuse without consequence, and by backstabbing, when they haven't the courage to stab them in the front, where all can see the actions of the knifeman and judge them accordingly?)

Thats  what it looks like from here.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 07, 2017, 12:10:16 AM
Also, for 'raxy to have been given cause to fear for herself should she do the right thing and take action when needed and use her mod powers as she sees fit, for her to be afraid to do so, for an I2 member as respected, and as WORTHY of that respect, as Pyraxis, that says an awful lot about those above her in terms of management, and about their honor, and trustworthyness.

Says a fucking lot, that 'Raxy should be afraid of the consequences of acting in such a way as to prevent a method of abuse being used, which is solely designed to enable the few to abuse the many, for the mods to be able to subject the rest of us to sly, backstabbing, underhanded abuse.

If odeon DID re-enable such a feature if 'Raxy removed it, or any other mod with the ability to do so, then he'd be blatantly admifttig that he wants the capacity to be able to slyly, sneakily, janus-facedly backstab members and make forum interaction difficult for those members as a method of punishment or vengeance that he is unprepared to admit to resorting to.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 07, 2017, 01:59:51 AM
Lestat, Pyraxis is playing Pikajedi to Odeon's Amy Nelson
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: 'andersom' on November 07, 2017, 02:18:36 AM
And there is the target on her back.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 07, 2017, 03:46:05 AM
And there is the target on her back.

What target? Do you know after we left Pikajedi became an Admin and was well respected there as the reasonable Admin of AFF? Amy disliked him and he had to Admin around her and her unhinged mentality kept partially in check by Gareth (who respected Pikajedi). No? Are you creating an intent where this is somehow underhanded? Why Hyke?
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: 'andersom' on November 07, 2017, 04:02:14 AM
I've seen Pikajedi being despised, hated, thrown out of forums in 2008, because of his attempts to save AFF with diplomacy. You were part of those forums too. Whole dramas with max the bear and zakkie.

That's my narrative. That's what I thought of, when I saw you writing that.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: 'andersom' on November 07, 2017, 04:18:37 AM
One of these in-between forums in 2008 it got so bad that if you let slip that you had been in contact with pika privately, you risked getting kicked out.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: 'andersom' on November 07, 2017, 04:23:36 AM
Pikajedi did not deserve that target on his back then either.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 07, 2017, 04:50:02 AM
Pikajedi did not deserve that target on his back then either.

Yet likening Pika the Admin to Pyraxis the Admin, was not uncomplimentary.
Likening Odeon the Admin to Amy Nelson the Admin was uncomplimentary.
Pikajedi was NOT an Admin in 2008. That came much later.
So how was Pikajedi the Admin and in which way was he like Pyraxis now? He was somewhat stifled because Amy would ride roughshod and he would try to enforce the forum rules and with Gareth blessing all the while Amy was doing things on whims and without rationality or honesty or transparency. He was working with what he had and trying not to appear to overrule her or step on her toes.....I give you Pyraxis.
It is hardly uncomplimentary to either Pikajedi or to Pyraxis, yet you have painted this as such.
I like Pika AND he was a very good Admin and under very difficult circumstances.

But tell me how terrible I am please Hyke, I really need that now.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 07, 2017, 09:32:35 AM
He was somewhat stifled because Amy would ride roughshod and he would try to enforce the forum rules and with Gareth blessing all the while Amy was doing things on whims and without rationality or honesty or transparency. He was working with what he had and trying not to appear to overrule her or step on her toes.....I give you Pyraxis.

Yeah, that does kinda sound like what's going on now.  :P

Damned if I know what to do about yet.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: 'andersom' on November 07, 2017, 10:24:19 AM
I did not return to the new AFF apart from making one or two posts to back up Pikajedi. Don't think he was an admin back then.
Thinking how Pikajedi got treated in 2008 brings back sick memories. And he tried fucking hard back then, keeping things together. Not that different from the shitty job Pk is taking on now. So that is what it brought up in memories for me when you compared his role to hers. Pika was seen as under control by Amy and was  treated like a leper Not wishing that amount of shit on anyone.

Never thought further than 2008, because to me AFF was as good as gone after that.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 07, 2017, 11:40:40 AM
I ever saw pika that way, I've always seen him as a man of integrity, unlike amy, who of course was nothing of the kind. Well, a man, perhaps, but certainly nothing that'd know integrity if it jumped out at amy and stabbed her straight in a sweaty, pus-engorged bollock with a rusty cork-screw heated to red heat and stamped with the letters spelling out the words 'integrity, you dumb fucking whore'

The way Pika was treated was reprehensible.

As for max the bear,  nobody ever should have  ever either acted on nor believed so much as a single word that shitstirring little batty boy  crapped out, he was nothing short of a vile disease, a cancer who infected and spread through forums, corrupting, parasitizing and fucking them over with his faggotry and shitspeak. MTB was just a bad person, end of, No two ways about it, guy is a fucking vile little nancy-boy that ought to have been dragged out into the light and exposed for the shit-stirrer and tosspot he was, and cast from the forum. Because he was just toxic. Poison is what MTB is.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on November 07, 2017, 12:23:55 PM
It's absolutely unacceptable for this to be permanent. I want this mod removed, period

I don't agree with the way it's being used. However it also seems pretty pointless for me to get into a button-pressing content with Odeon to take it on or off. One way or another there's got to be a longer term solution to this.

 :thumbup:  Thanks Py.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 07, 2017, 05:37:04 PM
I can't help but miss AFF though, I mean, amy's going off like an inter-continental ballistic mental bitch aside, that, I don't miss one bit. She turned from by as far as I could see a decent sort to a complete sodding mental-case as quick as a striking snake (particularly if the one being bitten was MTB and the ophidian in question was a one-eyed trouser-viper :P ) and just totally, completely and utterly lost.her.mother.fucking.shit

But the community, and there were some really great people there, like aliengirl, ana, tigger the wing, pika, alison and more besides, hell its where I re-met someone who has for years been among the few people I'd count as my closest, most valued friends, the girl who posted a little bit, briefly, here, under the name burning_one. Didn't meet her there for the first time,  but online on another web forum some time prior, but since I've known her, we have been there for each other through some real tough times for either of us.

And Heretic...there for what might as well have been a fraction of a second on AFF, but aside from my former fiancee, (younger of the two), one of just two people I've ever dated who I really wanted to have spent the rest of my days with. Heretic is one very special woman indeed, intense, driven, and a beautifully strong, kind lady with a wonderful soul thats a dynamic, forceful, intense as hell, yet elegant and gorgeous mixture of fire and ice. Autie, damn smart and with a smile that when she let it out on those occasions she did so, something wonderful and precious that made not just her face, but her entire self light up so much she positively glowed, and had that strange trait some people on the spectrum do, particularly auties and females in particular, where physical aging seems to be dramatically slowed down, to the point in her case it takes about thirty years off her age if one didn't know who she was and were to be asked 'try to guess how old I am'. She could, IMO get away with late 20s-early 30s rather than 49-51, and when she was 30s or so then she looked 19. Real stunner too, then, and that hasn't changed in the least, she still is :)

And the atmosphere at AFF, before amy turned it into her virulent miasmatic cloud of toxin-saturated, flatulent, bitch-queen arse fumes was great. Can't believe Amy, the way she went and ruined things for EVERYONE else. What were all the other aspies and auties, the ones that weren't acting like total wankers with their heads inserted way too far up their anal sphincters to see they were defaecating arrogant tosser-sewage over the entire community and trashing a really good effort up until then, that was important to a lot of people; meant to do? piss off to bloody wrongplanet, and in doing so achieve buggering well bog all but to lose one psychotic egotistical mental case night-soil pit and trade her in for another, this time with two dicks, instead of just the one sprouting from Amy's over-swelled forehead;  albeit the new  one coded for genetically doubtless being either born malformed or else if not, then the victim of a horrific motorized pencil-sharpener accident.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 07, 2017, 06:36:29 PM
Agree with all that
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 08, 2017, 09:02:31 AM
I removed Scrap from the annoy list. Also the sockpuppet, and the other members who haven't been seen in forever.



(Odeon did say it was ok to take Scrap off.)



((Don't fuck this up, though... he's still got his finger on the ban button if there's TOS violation, and I'm not out to defend against that one.))
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 08, 2017, 01:04:16 PM
I removed Scrap from the annoy list. Also the sockpuppet, and the other members who haven't been seen in forever.



(Odeon did say it was ok to take Scrap off.)



((Don't fuck this up, though... he's still got his finger on the ban button if there's TOS violation, and I'm not out to defend against that one.))

More than fair. Thankvyou
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: rock hound on November 13, 2017, 07:24:31 PM
Did have a last taste of AFF dysfunction on line and some weird shit on FB with Amy going off and then, Gareth freaking out about Amy doing something and then deleting his account from FB.  On AFF, Amy deleted goodbye posts like mine which were complimentary, but, for some strange reason, she hated.    I have the gut feeling that something was going on between them and the major crap was from Amy. 
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 13, 2017, 09:24:04 PM
Did have a last taste of AFF dysfunction on line and some weird shit on FB with Amy going off and then, Gareth freaking out about Amy doing something and then deleting his account from FB.  On AFF, Amy deleted goodbye posts like mine which were complimentary, but, for some strange reason, she hated.    I have the gut feeling that something was going on between them and the major crap was from Amy.

Yup Amy was a trainwreck. Gareth had a blindspot with Amy. With everything else, whether I agreed with him or not, he was reasonable and logical ... except Amy
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on November 14, 2017, 06:22:15 AM
Did have a last taste of AFF dysfunction on line and some weird shit on FB with Amy going off and then, Gareth freaking out about Amy doing something and then deleting his account from FB.  On AFF, Amy deleted goodbye posts like mine which were complimentary, but, for some strange reason, she hated.    I have the gut feeling that something was going on between them and the major crap was from Amy.

Yup Amy was a trainwreck. Gareth had a blindspot with Amy. With everything else, whether I agreed with him or not, he was reasonable and logical ... except Amy

I knew someone like this IRL, actually worked for his company, Mack Tilton, the founder of Tilton Engineering (http://tiltonracing.com/). He was a very smart, reasonable, decent guy. However he had a blind spot for his second wife and her red headed son, Art Armbrewster. I worked there when Art (he called himself Tilton even though he legally wasn't) was the CEO and he was in the process of driving the company into the ground. He was a narcissist and a passive aggressive manipulator. He created a toxic culture there at Tilton where everything was political and truth didn't matter anymore. Obviously, in an environment such as high end racing manufacturing, this had a detrimental effect on the company.

 I left there after less than a year and Tilton had to replace me with someone they previously fired for incompetence. I went down south to work for John Force Racing after that. While at Force racing, I would attend industrial machine shows in L.A.. At the show in 2007, I saw a Tilton booth there with Art and his slimy right hand man. They were there in L.A., almost 200 miles from the shop in Buellton, looking for employees.  :hahaha:  They had pissed off so many people in the local area that they created a bad reputation for themselves. A year or two later the company was almost bankrupt and Mack had to fire Art and rescue the company he founded.

 Judging from their website, they're doing better now.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 14, 2017, 06:36:41 AM
Did have a last taste of AFF dysfunction on line and some weird shit on FB with Amy going off and then, Gareth freaking out about Amy doing something and then deleting his account from FB.  On AFF, Amy deleted goodbye posts like mine which were complimentary, but, for some strange reason, she hated.    I have the gut feeling that something was going on between them and the major crap was from Amy.

Yup Amy was a trainwreck. Gareth had a blindspot with Amy. With everything else, whether I agreed with him or not, he was reasonable and logical ... except Amy

I knew someone like this IRL, actually worked for his company, Mack Tilton, the founder of Tilton Engineering (http://tiltonracing.com/). He was a very smart, reasonable, decent guy. However he had a blind spot for his second wife and her red headed son, Art Armbrewster. I worked there when Art (he called himself Tilton even though he legally wasn't) was the CEO and he was in the process of driving the company into the ground. He was a narcissist and a passive aggressive manipulator. He created a toxic culture there at Tilton where everything was political and truth didn't matter anymore. Obviously, in an environment such as high end racing manufacturing, this had a detrimental effect on the company.

 I left there after less than a year and Tilton had to replace me with someone they previously fired for incompetence. I went down south to work for John Force Racing after that. While at Force racing, I would attend industrial machine shows in L.A.. At the show in 2007, I saw a Tilton booth there with Art and his slimy right hand man. They were there in L.A., almost 200 miles from the shop in Buellton, looking for employees.  :hahaha:  They had pissed off so many people in the local area that they created a bad reputation for themselves. A year or two later the company was almost bankrupt and Mack had to fire Art and rescue the company he founded.

 Judging from their website, they're doing better now.

You have to feel for the old man I guess
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Pyraxis on November 14, 2017, 11:15:00 AM
People always say combining family and business is bad news.  :-\

Impressive he managed to realize it in time and turn things around.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 15, 2017, 04:01:46 AM
Yeah gareth always struck me as a fairly sound guy. Amy on the other hand was just a toxic bitch with a real nasty way of flying off the handle. Thing was, she didn't always seem that way to me, she used to be alright, only to suddenly turn into a bloody monster.

Maybe she went and got into a high speed crash on her broomstick, and its the result of brain damage.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Al Swearegen on November 15, 2017, 04:20:39 AM
Yeah gareth always struck me as a fairly sound guy. Amy on the other hand was just a toxic bitch with a real nasty way of flying off the handle. Thing was, she didn't always seem that way to me, she used to be alright, only to suddenly turn into a bloody monster.

Maybe she went and got into a high speed crash on her broomstick, and its the result of brain damage.

I do not think she liked me much
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 15, 2017, 04:29:52 AM
I found amy to be too unpredictable. She must have been seriously hot for gareth to consider getting involved with her. Unless she only showed her true colors to him later, too.

She did seem OK for the most of the time, but suddenly flipped her shit and turned  into something resembling the autie version of kim jong...errm...who's the current N.korean psychotic cunt du jour? only without the slant eyes and the nuclear warheads.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: rock hound on November 15, 2017, 08:53:37 PM
I sent a message to gwyfryn, asking for his opinions about this.  Since he and I go way back to aspergia.  And once, he,  Gareth and Amy had a meet up and the pictures looked all cheery and such.  Next thing I know he's banned from AFF and AI.  When I unbanned him at AI, Crucibelle said, that she had forgotten why she banned him, but, that is was ok that I ubnanned him.  Of course by then, AI was circling the drain and shortly there after, AI died.  Gwynfryn knows of I2 and has not wanted to join since he and Dunc have a bit of "history".  I did tell him that Dunc is no longer the owner.   No response yet, haven't hear from him in some time.   I respect him and though he and I have differing viewpoints,  he and I share many an intellectual viewpoint.  And I will always respect intellect.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Gopher Gary on November 15, 2017, 09:59:09 PM
 :plus: For trying to lure members here.
Title: Re: Down the "memory hole"
Post by: Lestat on November 20, 2017, 04:06:27 PM
Amy must be REALLY fucking hot, if somebody as generally not-fucking-mental as gareth if willing to not only tolerate being within ten miles of her but actually to impregnate her. Thats something that's going to take an awfully large something by way of justification:P