INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: Genesis on August 12, 2017, 08:43:08 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFx-nypS3Ac
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Oh Bullshit he is.
There were Leftist Antifa thugs, Neo-Nazi Douchebags and Liberals and Conservatives. He asked police to stand down and has done his best to denounce all the violence as being from the Right and try to score political points against the Republicans in trying to associate the violence with them.
It is not "badass". It is pathetic political pandering over a tragedy.
Before you say it, I know that the Right is probably blaming the actions solely on Antifa. I know IF the Governor was Republican he would likely blame it all on Antifa....but let's be a little more grounded in exactly what has happened and how cool McAulliffe is.
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Agreed Genesis.
Someone needed to denounce this shit, since our president evidently didn't have the balls to do so.
The only other thing I have to say about the dipshits marching in Charlottesville is....Tikki torches??? Really???
It looked like a riot after someone overcooked the pork at the luau.
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Agreed Genesis.
Someone needed to denounce this shit, since our president evidently didn't have the balls to do so.
The only other thing I have to say about the dipshits marching in Charlottesville is....Tikki torches??? Really???
It looked like a riot after someone overcooked the pork at the luau.
It would of course be idiotic to suggest that condemning the actions from all sides is somehow not condemning the actions. Like REALLY idiotic.
Antifa were acting like pricks. they are on the Left. The Neo Nazis were acting ng like pricks and they are on the Right. Violence came fron both groups. (ie "All sides") and Trump rightly condemned all sides because no parties regardless of political or any ideological affiliation should do this crap.
Perfectly valid to reasonable, rational people. You have issue with it.
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That's just wrong on so many levels. McAuliffe said what Trump should have said.
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That's just wrong on so many levels. McAuliffe said what Trump should have said.
Nope. THAT is wrong on so many levels.
People that use their political ideologies or any ideology to justify voilence at the occasions are arseholes and all involved in this violence need denouncing.
AntiFa and Neo Nazi came to start trouble. They both came armed. They are culpable and responsible. Two sides of the same coin. All sides.
If AntiFa did not show up, the Neo Nazis would have caused shit.
If the Neo Nazis did not show up, Antifa would have caused shit.
If neither turned up, probably wouldn't have turned to shit.
Trump normally chooses his words poorly. In this case he ticked all the boxes.
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That's just wrong on so many levels. McAuliffe said what Trump should have said.
Agreed....and every other president had the balls to do so.
“Those of us in public life can only resent the use of our names by those who seek political recognition for the repugnant doctrines of hate they espouse.” ~Ronald Reagan~
He needed to take notes, instead he fed this...even Reagan got it right.
That was written after the KKK publicly endorsed him.
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Let's be completely honest. Anything Trump had said would have been denounced. ANYTHING. He would have also have been blamed.
His words, of course, were fine. A heap of bad people turned up among "normal" protesters on both sides. The bad elements such as the White Supremacists and the Antifa turned the protests into shit and to make a horrible violent encounter worse, someone drove their car into someone. I have not seen anything so appalling since someone did that in Nice (or was that London, can't remember).
There was bad on all sides. There was at least within the crowd Antifa and White Supremacists, were there other reactionary extremist groups? Maybe?
What ought to be considered is that it should not be used as a chance for the Right wing outlets to dismiss and downplay the White Supremacists role in this shitfest and talk up Antifa. At the same stage it should not be up to the Media and Democrats to do the opposite and talk up White Supremacists whilst ignoring AntiFa's part.
ALL SIDES were complicit and all sides are NOT justified or righteous and ought to be denounced.
Trump did that. You can wish he was strong against one group or another but as all the groups were bad, their actions need to be challenged and NONE of them should be given any benefit of the doubt. All sides were condemned.
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Agreed Genesis.
Someone needed to denounce this shit, since our president evidently didn't have the balls to do so.
The only other thing I have to say about the dipshits marching in Charlottesville is....Tikki torches??? Really???
It looked like a riot after someone overcooked the pork at the luau.
That's just wrong on so many levels. McAuliffe said what Trump should have said.
:indeed:
The Nazi's had no desire to show up for a peaceful protest. They showed up with shields and weapons. My people show up with peace pipes and we get maced, pepper sprayed and rubber bullets. (Standing Rock). White dudes show up with weapons and they get a pat on the head.
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And he did it again. The head of (drug company) Merck resigned from Trumps advisory board as he wanted to take a clear stand against racism. Trump couldn't help himself and had to fire a parting shot on Twitter.
He is utterly unfit to be president.
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He lacks the temperament and the intelligence for the job at hand.
I think we'll be lucky if we escape the next four years without a war...at home or abroad. If he lasts that long, IMO I don't believe he will.
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And finally, after two days, he condemns the Nazis.
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And finally, after two days, he condemns the Nazis.
Finally.
He must have just got the memo.
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He condemned all sides involved. the Neo Nazis were involved. For some reason it needed spelling out. So he pandered to the people that needed for some reason for him to spell it out.
Having done this, everyone is now happy with him and with his words, right?
Of course not. Haha don't be stupid. Don't think for a moment there is ever anything he can say or do that would ever be okay or reasonable in your eyes.
Ss for that person resigning from Trumps Advisory Board, because of racism after the Charlottesville attack, of course Trump should give them shit. Neo Nazis are racist. They were at Charlottesville and were arseholes. Therefore leave Trump's Advisory Board in protest. There is a lack of association between Trump and his Advisory Board and the Violence and Neo nazis that the Drug guy is implying with his resignation.
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The Nazi's had no desire to show up for a peaceful protest. They showed up with shields and weapons.
Read reports that members of both the klan and antifa showed up in riot gear, so both sides were viewed as prepared for violence. Both the klan and antifa are classified as domestic terrorist groups, flipsides of a single extremist coin and both with the aim to inhibit the freedoms of fellow citizens. Antifa doesn't get a lot of negative attention from the general public, because they largely target white supremacist demonstrations, so basically fighting fire with fire, but that's not always been the case. Not sure if either organization as better than the other, but antifa didn't kill anyone, and it was certainly worth mentioning who did.
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Kenneth Frazier resigned in protest because of Trump's indifference and lack of protest.
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(http://i.imgur.com/UyuQ055.png)
I want to lock this guy and Carl the Cuck in a cage and watch them fight to the death.
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I want to lock this guy and Carl the Cuck in a cage and watch them fight to the death.
That guy would lose because carl the cuck isn't a pussy who needs the support of a mob. :zoinks:
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Of course not. Haha don't be stupid. Don't think for a moment there is ever anything he can say or do that would ever be okay or reasonable in your eyes.
His denouncement of the Nazis came two days too late and was likely the result of someone else being reasonable.
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Kevin Plank - CEO of Under Armour
Brian Krzanich - CEO for Intel... also resigned from the council in protest.
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(http://i.imgur.com/UyuQ055.png)
I want to lock this guy and Carl the Cuck in a cage and watch them fight to the death.
They're being outted and some have been fired from their jobs. All of a sudden now you hear them say "I'm not what you think I am." ::)
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They're being outted and some have been fired from their jobs. All of a sudden now you hear them say "I'm not what you think I am." ::)
:laugh: I know, exactly what are you then?
I'm interested as to the response.
They were identifying them one by one on Twitter.
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While Trump shows his true colours. Fucking hell, what an imbecile that man is.
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While Trump shows his true colours. Fucking hell, what an imbecile that man is.
Just saw this. I was waiting for him to put his foot in his mouth again.
Yep, there it is. :facepalm2:
Wondering when Kelly is just going to give the fuck up. The picture says it all.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/danny0023/kelly_zps04jqgubu.jpg)
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He'll start drinking on the job soon. I know I would.
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Dude on the far right: "Please god let this be over soon."
Next dude: "Will you shut the fuck up already."
Next dude: "This is why I need meds."
Kelly: "I give up, I just give the fuck up."
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"I know there's still some cheap whiskey in the bottom drawer."
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Of course not. Haha don't be stupid. Don't think for a moment there is ever anything he can say or do that would ever be okay or reasonable in your eyes.
His denouncement of the Nazis came two days too late and was likely the result of someone else being reasonable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDL5C11s0q8
Two days too late for what? what are you on about? There were extremists on both sides and both sides should have been denounced... and were. Trump should have condemned the violence....and did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TYXDifodng
That is what he should have done. For many though, they wanted him to specifically denounce the White Supremacists in the group as well. So he even did this. But many did not even think this was enough.
What I am waiting with baited breath for, is now Trump Condemned The Right wing White Supremacists extremists and the Left Wing Antifa extremists in general terms and then the Right Wing White Supremacists specifically, when is the Democrat party going to condemn the Left Wing Antofa extremists both generally and specifically?
Can we pretend they are not hypocrites and have both credibility and moral standing to denounce all bad parties and bad behaviour even on their political divide?
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There's a good article why comparing the Antifa and the Neo-Nazi's is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm in no way supportive of the Antifa because they're militant as well.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/trump-asks-%E2%80%98what-about-the-alt-left%E2%80%99-here%E2%80%99s-an-answer/ar-AAqazaG?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp
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There's a good article why comparing the Antifa and the Neo-Nazi's is like comparing apples to oranges. I'm in no way supportive of the Antifa because they're militant as well.
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/trump-asks-%E2%80%98what-about-the-alt-left%E2%80%99-here%E2%80%99s-an-answer/ar-AAqazaG?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartandhp
No it is absolutely apples and apples. Both groups came in with bad intent and the righteous indignation reserved for ideological zealots.
They both sought violence and disruption. In what ensued, a man within the group, who was previously discharge from the army due to "mental problems", followed the horrible pattern of driving cars into people.
The result of violent intent was violence. it was not that what both sudes did beforehand was okay but he stepped over the line, any more than his hate and killing is justified by his mental issues. Its all horrid.
It should all be condemned.
Likewise I think that trying to minimise or negate threat or extremism of any group or ideology based on historical data is disingenuous of the reporter.
The biggest fighting force in the world is the italians...or at least was a few thosand years ago. I am not interest in who threatened whom in the past 25 years, historically. Threats of the past are not necessarily threata today. Antifa are and have been a bigger threat in the last 12 months than they were 25 years ago.
Right Wing white supremacists are a threat too both group are in their thousands and both are dangerous. both need to be equally condemned and acted on.
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There's no equivalence between the two. They are not, and never were, the same thing.
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There's no equivalence between the two. They are not, and never were, the same thing.
Within the context of protest there is equivalence. All citizens have the right to peaceful protest and both groups steal that right from everyone around them. There were probably plenty of protesters present who were associated to neither group. Their voices not only weren't heard, but their voices were polluted and adulterated by terrorists.
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There's no equivalence between the two. They are not, and never were, the same thing.
Within the context of protest there is equivalence. All citizens have the right to peaceful protest and both groups steal that right from everyone around them. There were probably plenty of protesters present who were associated to neither group. Their voices not only weren't heard, but their voices were polluted and adulterated by terrorists.
Absolutely, and not only are these protestors tarnished and in some cases doxed but many were attacked.
I have no doubt in my mind that if the White Supremacists were not there that the Antifa and the like would have started trouble as they have done regularly AND I have no doubt if Antifa were not there that the white supremacists would have caused trouble.
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Real life should have a sinbin.
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Real life should have a sinbin.
That is the truth.
What I do not get is the whole want to force ideological positions on others. Don't like a statue pull it down. Don't like that campus speaker? Blockade the audience from going in, scream obscenities of them and punch shit out of them. Don't like counter protestors? Throw flashbombs and other missiles.
Believe me, I also think that forcing your religious beliefs or getting someone to adhere to your religious mores are terrible ideas.
I sure as Hell think supporting dehumanising people for the content of their heritage or skin colour or gender or whatever is abhorrent and if you are so hateful that the only way you can get your hate across is driving over people, something is fucking wrong.
All of these things come from bad places and ought to be discouraged, condemned and railed against.
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I think this girl is pretty spot on and pretty much for reasons as I said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S2TZOdXAtQ
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Jack likes her.
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There's no equivalence between the two. They are not, and never were, the same thing.
Within the context of protest there is equivalence. All citizens have the right to peaceful protest and both groups steal that right from everyone around them. There were probably plenty of protesters present who were associated to neither group. Their voices not only weren't heard, but their voices were polluted and adulterated by terrorists.
Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
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There's no equivalence between the two. They are not, and never were, the same thing.
Within the context of protest there is equivalence. All citizens have the right to peaceful protest and both groups steal that right from everyone around them. There were probably plenty of protesters present who were associated to neither group. Their voices not only weren't heard, but their voices were polluted and adulterated by terrorists.
Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Do you believe that Neo Nazis are Nazis? Do you believe that the people that committed World War 2 crimes are in the ranks of the Neo Nazis?
Interesting.
By drawing an equivalence between the group responsible for atrocities in World War 2 and Racist violent thugs in America, I think your work is all up hill.
Antifa would purge people with differing opinions and change society into a version of 1984 if they could. Neo Nazis would purge people with the "wrong" cultural heritage or skin colour, if they could.
Yet you managed to try to turn that into Nazis and those that dislike Nazis : Bad vs Good. Jesus.
(https://i.redd.it/wutv6gvgeggz.png)
THIS is probably not quite equivalence BUT much less a false equivalence than Neo Nazis are actual Nazis and Antifa are just people not wanting Nazis to exist.
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Don't embarrass yourself, Al. Your reading comprehension is off again.
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Oh, and only an idiot would post what you did. Or a bigot.
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Oh, and only an idiot would post what you did. Or a bigot.
Sure r
Maybe you could make your argument a little stronger. Perhaps not make false equivalencies?
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There's no equivalence between the two. They are not, and never were, the same thing.
Within the context of protest there is equivalence. All citizens have the right to peaceful protest and both groups steal that right from everyone around them. There were probably plenty of protesters present who were associated to neither group. Their voices not only weren't heard, but their voices were polluted and adulterated by terrorists.
Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Who cares what either think? The best interpretation of what people think is through their actions.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
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Well if there were any bright spots to this weeks show of hatred...IMO it was these two occurrences.
Christopher Cantwell, who was followed during the gathering of neo-Nazis, KKK, white supremacists and alt-right for a 22-minute documentary for VICE, showed off his guns to journalist Elle Reeve and boasted: “I'm carrying a pistol, I go to the gym all the time, I'm trying to make myself more capable of violence.”
...and fast forward...crying his eyes out after being identified and called out on social media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQUrWlraj_4&feature=youtu.be
Enjoy that cup of salty neo-nazi tears.
Oh...and for #2...Bannon just got CANNED. :asthing:
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Enjoy that cup of salty neo-nazi tears.
"I'm terrified" :lol1:
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Well if there were any bright spots to this weeks show of hatred...IMO it was these two occurrences.
Christopher Cantwell, who was followed during the gathering of neo-Nazis, KKK, white supremacists and alt-right for a 22-minute documentary for VICE, showed off his guns to journalist Elle Reeve and boasted: “I'm carrying a pistol, I go to the gym all the time, I'm trying to make myself more capable of violence.”
...and fast forward...crying his eyes out after being identified and called out on social media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQUrWlraj_4&feature=youtu.be
Enjoy that cup of salty neo-nazi tears.
Oh...and for #2...Bannon just got CANNED. :asthing:
I loved number one (if only they could all be jailed). I heard Bannon resigned rather than got canned but it amounts to the same I guess. How do I feel about that? Indifference I guess. I do think that he helped trump shape his stances which Trump was elected on and it can't impact the agenda that tens of millions of people voted for. Is it a good thing or bad? No idea.
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Oh, and only an idiot would post what you did. Or a bigot.
Sure r
Maybe you could make your argument a little stronger. Perhaps not make false equivalencies?
Al, you remain an idiot. Your arguments are those of an idiot. I don't think there is anything I can say to make you understand how far off the mark you are. It's understandable that you agree with Trump in this for you two are very much alike.
Thankfully, your opinions will never carry any weight.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
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Oh, and only an idiot would post what you did. Or a bigot.
Sure r
Maybe you could make your argument a little stronger. Perhaps not make false equivalencies?
Al, you remain an idiot. Your arguments are those of an idiot. I don't think there is anything I can say to make you understand how far off the mark you are. It's understandable that you agree with Trump for in this, you two are very much alike.
Thankfully, your opinions will never carry any weight.
Your words are of no consequence. You always had an ego and lack of introspection coupled with an over estimation of your own intellect. You are of no more consequence than the words you use. I will happily back anything reasonable that you say but your inability to say anything clever recently has me at odds with you.
I am happy to point and laugh at your stupidity and you keep doing it so I am not going to gripe about it.
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And Bannon being kicked out is brilliant.
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Oh, and only an idiot would post what you did. Or a bigot.
Sure r
Maybe you could make your argument a little stronger. Perhaps not make false equivalencies?
Al, you remain an idiot. Your arguments are those of an idiot. I don't think there is anything I can say to make you understand how far off the mark you are. It's understandable that you agree with Trump for in this, you two are very much alike.
Thankfully, your opinions will never carry any weight.
Your words are of no consequence. You always had an ego and lack of introspection coupled with an over estimation of your own intellect. You are of no more consequence than the words you use. I will happily back anything reasonable that you say but your inability to say anything clever recently has me at odds with you.
I am happy to point and laugh at your stupidity and you keep doing it so I am not going to gripe about it.
Echoing my reply won't make you look smarter. It does confirm that I got under your skin, however. Again.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Yes, Nazi's did not. Neither do Neo Nazis. Neither do the Antifa and other Leftist Progressive ideological groups. Neither do the various fundamentalist religious groups. Nor do any White Supremacist Groups not espousing Nazism or derivative Thought. Nor do radical Muslim Extremists. Nor do Black Supremacists.
ALL these groups believe in racial, ideological and/or religious purity and a want to purge and eradicate others who are different to them. Given enough power and influence, the worst of people in their ranks will rise and enact those mandates.
Most reasonable people get this. Those that do not are likely in one of these irrational ideologies and can not be introspective. For such people the excusing, rationalising, and justification of their own camp or those that they feel an affinity for blinds them to the obvious.
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Oh, and only an idiot would post what you did. Or a bigot.
Sure r
Maybe you could make your argument a little stronger. Perhaps not make false equivalencies?
Al, you remain an idiot. Your arguments are those of an idiot. I don't think there is anything I can say to make you understand how far off the mark you are. It's understandable that you agree with Trump for in this, you two are very much alike.
Thankfully, your opinions will never carry any weight.
Your words are of no consequence. You always had an ego and lack of introspection coupled with an over estimation of your own intellect. You are of no more consequence than the words you use. I will happily back anything reasonable that you say but your inability to say anything clever recently has me at odds with you.
I am happy to point and laugh at your stupidity and you keep doing it so I am not going to gripe about it.
Echoing my reply won't make you look smarter. It does confirm that I got under your skin, however. Again.
I encourage you to keep saying stupid things. Have at.
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By saying stupid things? I think you just can't help yourself, another trait you and Trump have in common.
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By saying stupid things? I think you just can't help yourself, another trait you and Trump have in common.
That is all you have. Okay. I have premises and you have, you are just like Trump. Well done, Odeon.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.
Exactly and these types of people are dangerous for the same reason
Yes, Nazi's did not. Neither do Neo Nazis. Neither do the Antifa and other Leftist Progressive ideological groups. Neither do the various fundamentalist religious groups. Nor do any White Supremacist Groups not espousing Nazism or derivative Thought. Nor do radical Muslim Extremists. Nor do Black Supremacists.
ALL these groups believe in racial, ideological and/or religious purity and a want to purge and eradicate others who are different to them. Given enough power and influence, the worst of people in their ranks will rise and enact those mandates.
Most reasonable people get this. Those that do not are likely in one of these irrational ideologies and can not be introspective. For such people the excusing, rationalising, and justification of their own camp or those that they feel an affinity for blinds them to the obvious.
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By saying stupid things? I think you just can't help yourself, another trait you and Trump have in common.
That is all you have. Okay. I have premises and you have, you are just like Trump. Well done, Odeon.
I hope that made sense to you.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.
Well, this wasn't about you.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.
Well, this wasn't about you.
Of course it's about me. It's about me and my right to vote without violent retribution. It's about my right to peaceful assembly without criminals who stop me from hearing or being heard. It's about my right to live in my home without it being burned as a consequence of someone else being attacked. It's about my right to speak my mind without being murdered for it. It's about my right to say, people who do such things are not activists or protestors; they are violent terrorists who should be locked away from society and I have no patience for the defensive reasoning for anyone who would do these things to me.
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.
Well, this wasn't about you.
Of course it's about me. It's about me and my right to vote without violent retribution. It's about my right to peaceful assembly without criminals who stop me from hearing or being heard. It's about my right to live in my home without it being burned as a consequence of someone else being attacked. It's about my right to speak my mind without being murdered for it. It's about my right to say, people who do such things are not activists or protestors; they are violent terrorists who should be locked away from society and I have no patience for the defensive reasoning for anyone who would do these things to me.
Agreed
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What gets me about about these kind of clashes is that almost everbody seems to assume that all the fascists are white, thus giving groups like AntiFa a sort of get-out-of-jail free card wrt to fascist tendencies. They support black people's rights don't they? How can they possibly be fascist?
Here's the definition of Fascism from Wikipedia:
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce
I think that pretty neatly sums up the aims of rather a lot of radical people, these days, especially the Muslim extremists such as ISIS.
In addition, you might note that the radical Muslims are antisemitic and homophobic in the extreme, just like their Christian fundamentalist brethren. I find it hard to see any significant difference at all between them and the Nazis. You only need to substitute "doctrinal purity" for "racial purity" , Mohammed for Hitler etc. and you've got a perfect match. Fascism, unfortunately, is rooted in human nature, and has bugger-all to do with the colour of your skin.
The right to free speech- even for fascists- needs to be preserved,at every cost. Otherwise, "You're next" as they say. It follows that nobody has the right to attempt to violently suppress some other point-of-view , however loathsome. When you start doing that , you become the enemy that you think you're fighting against .
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Sorry, I will never set equivalence between Nazis and those who think Nazis have no place in a society.
Though there is an equivelance between groups, and even individuals, who commit acts of terrorism to in the name of ideology. Threats, destruction, violence, arson, bombings, and murder. They are the bullies of society whose acts show they believe their thoughts are more important than other people's rights.
Nazis do not believe people are equal to begin with.
Neither do I, though with different reasoning, but the real difference between me an either group is, I don't terrorize the public or impede on anyone's rights to say what I think.
Well, this wasn't about you.
Of course it's about me. It's about me and my right to vote without violent retribution. It's about my right to peaceful assembly without criminals who stop me from hearing or being heard. It's about my right to live in my home without it being burned as a consequence of someone else being attacked. It's about my right to speak my mind without being murdered for it. It's about my right to say, people who do such things are not activists or protestors; they are violent terrorists who should be locked away from society and I have no patience for the defensive reasoning for anyone who would do these things to me.
So the white supremacists are victims?
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What gets me about about these kind of clashes is that almost everbody seems to assume that all the fascists are white, thus giving groups like AntiFa a sort of get-out-of-jail free card wrt to fascist tendencies. They support black people's rights don't they? How can they possibly be fascist?
The white supremacists who started this mess are--surprise--white. In ideology, they are Nazis, not fascists. I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
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What gets me about about these kind of clashes is that almost everbody seems to assume that all the fascists are white, thus giving groups like AntiFa a sort of get-out-of-jail free card wrt to fascist tendencies. They support black people's rights don't they? How can they possibly be fascist?
Here's the definition of Fascism from Wikipedia:
Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce
I think that pretty neatly sums up the aims of rather a lot of radical people, these days, especially the Muslim extremists such as ISIS.
In addition, you might note that the radical Muslims are antisemitic and homophobic in the extreme, just like their Christian fundamentalist brethren. I find it hard to see any significant difference at all between them and the Nazis. You only need to substitute "doctrinal purity" for "racial purity" , Mohammed for Hitler etc. and you've got a perfect match. Fascism, unfortunately, is rooted in human nature, and has bugger-all to do with the colour of your skin.
The right to free speech- even for fascists- needs to be preserved,at every cost. Otherwise, "You're next" as they say. It follows that nobody has the right to attempt to violently suppress some other point-of-view , however loathsome. When you start doing that , you become the enemy that you think you're fighting against .
I agree entirely.
Any extremist or fundamentalist group does not have to will if given enough power and influence and if left unchecked, is absolutely a danger.
I personally think that equating Neo Nazis to the Nazis on any quantifiable metric is going to fail. BUT that does not mean that just because they only number 3000-5000 in the US, that they are beneath notice or justified or worthy of condemnation. Absolutely they are.
So is Antifa. In fact, I believe that the fact that the Antifa crowd "seem" to get a free pass for much of what they do, by the press and the Democrats, makes them more emboldened and dangerous than New Nazis.
Political position or nationality or cultural heritage or race or gender or religion ought NOT be the thing that gives an extremist group a free pass or an excuse.
I blame in a large part Progressive positions in a large part for this. The Cultural Marxist the Progressive Stack. It allows people like Antifa and Black LivesMatter to do terrible things with a certain amount of downplaying or misdirection of blame. All because they are on the "right side" of the political chasm, or because they chant "Progressive slogans".
No, they are just bad. They need to be thoroughly denounced by the Democrats in the US and the Press. Apart from the Neo Nazis themselves and their associated white Supremacy groups, there is no one who is not distancing themselves from these people. No one likes them or gives cover to them.
Any of these groups if given enough power will push their divisive and authoritarian points of view. They will tell me what Gods I must pray to and in which way or what who I can be friends with or whom I can love or trust or what point of view I must adhere to AND under threat of punishment if I do not. I do not want ANY of it.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
That says equivalency to me
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
That says equivalency to me
Yeah, let's protect the poor, misunderstood Nazis! :arrr:
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
Don't think so. The victims that day were liberty, society and all of the millions of peaceful people who aren't either of them.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
That says equivalency to me
Yeah, let's protect the poor, misunderstood Nazis! :arrr:
Being that NO ONE here has supported or not condemned the Neo Nazis, in what rational and reasonable way did you arrive to the conclusion that ANY of us were "protecting the Nazis".
Try spelling it out because it looks pretty silly from this vantage point.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
Don't think so. The victims that day were liberty, society and all of the millions of peaceful people who aren't either of them.
Yes. I agree. Two hateful groups trying to start trouble and violence. The end result is violence and the distraction and intimidation from any debate or discussion on differing opinions. Any people there to support the statues remaining are seen as "with the Nazis" and those wanting to protest the statues are seen as Antifa. Those witness but not involved in the violence are likely not so keen to join in such rallies or publicly debate these issues.
Both sides (groups and ideological positions) are poison to society.
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...and then the Nazi's went to Boston. Where a "welcome" party awaited.
(http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5998a866b0e0b5db008b6254-2000/gettyimages-835543902.jpg)
I think the brave 12 or 20 of them stayed about a whole half an hour or so.
The best way to troll a Nazi/KKK march.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqbVbGFl2PI
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...and then the Nazi's went to Boston. Where a "welcome" party awaited.
That photo doesn't even do justice to the size of the crowd. It was estimated at 40,000.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
There's a petition for it but I think you're painting in very broad strokes.
Don't think so. The victims that day were liberty, society and all of the millions of peaceful people who aren't either of them.
The victim that day was the woman who was killed.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
That says equivalency to me
Yeah, let's protect the poor, misunderstood Nazis! :arrr:
Being that NO ONE here has supported or not condemned the Neo Nazis, in what rational and reasonable way did you arrive to the conclusion that ANY of us were "protecting the Nazis".
Try spelling it out because it looks pretty silly from this vantage point.
You think everything I say is silly because that is your vantage point.
Me, I think setting equivalence of any kind between Nazis an the people who want them gone is silly. But then, you knew that.
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There's no fine line between demonstrating and rioting. Groups who set fire to cars and homes, smash storefronts, and attack police as their interpretation of their voice are terrorists. Groups who set fire to white homes in black neighborhoods as a political statement against gentrification are in fact equal to white supremacists. When violent cowards express their voice with weapons while hiding their faces, it doesn't matter if the fabric hiding their face is klan white hoods or black antifa mask. Terrorists aren't victims.
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It would be easy to support antifa, the same way am supportive of muslims, if they would even once attempt to distance themselves from the criminals in their ranks by condemning them as extremists bad apples, but they don't. They make no bones about the lengths they're willing to go to, and innocent bystanders can only hope to stay out of their path.
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So the white supremacists are victims?
No the klan is a domestic terrorist organization.
I don't agree with Antifa's methods but they are certainly not fascists.
No antifa is a domestic terrorist organization.
That says equivalency to me
Yeah, let's protect the poor, misunderstood Nazis! :arrr:
Being that NO ONE here has supported or not condemned the Neo Nazis, in what rational and reasonable way did you arrive to the conclusion that ANY of us were "protecting the Nazis".
Try spelling it out because it looks pretty silly from this vantage point.
You think everything I say is silly because that is your vantage point.
Me, I think setting equivalence of any kind between Nazis and the people who want them gone is silly. But then, you knew that.
Nazis are gone. The German Nazi Socialist Party and its deadly and ruthless army and leadership that took on Europe and actively practiced genocide against the Jewish people and to an extent, other minorities, many decades ago, is gone.
So you have your wish
Now you DO have other nasty, violent, ideological groups. Some want to commit violence and evil and with a self-righteousness and moral justification to shore up any misdeed as for the greater benefit of the ideology. What are these ideologies that they think the end justifies the means to propagate and force these narratives on everyone whether they believe them or not?:
Some of these are their specific brand of religion
Some for racial supremacist and racist reasons
Others to push a political position
Such people will not only share their horrible ideology but will do anything they can to make that the default in society.
I worry not just about the beliefs but the size, the way society exalts or tolerates or demonises them but also their influence and fanaticism.
Neo Nazis are a big issue and so are Antifa and no one here is protecting either group.
So when you say that myself or others are protecting Nazis when none of us are and we have all condemned them , their ideokogy and their actions......it kind of looks dishonest.
Is this a fair and rational reading? If not, then why not?
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There's no fine line between demonstrating and rioting. Groups who set fire to cars and homes, smash storefronts, and attack police as their interpretation of their voice are terrorists. Groups who set fire to white homes in black neighborhoods as a political statement against gentrification are in fact equal to white supremacists. When violent cowards express their voice with weapons while hiding their faces, it doesn't matter if the fabric hiding their face is klan white hoods or black antifa mask. Terrorists aren't victims.
This is so very true.
The search for equivalency is answered in this post
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I see no point in reiterating what I've already said.
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I see no point in reiterating what I've already said.
It was irrational then it probably won't be groundbreaking now. I was hoping that you had something else to offer. No matter, I just thought you would move to a logical and reasonable position. Nothing lost.
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I see no point in reiterating what I've already said.
It was irrational then it probably won't be groundbreaking now. I was hoping that you had something else to offer. No matter, I just thought you would move to a logical and reasonable position. Nothing lost.
You've consistently failed to recognise "logical" and "reasonable" but for the longest time I hoped you would.
And yes, this is me being charitable.
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I see no point in reiterating what I've already said.
It was irrational then it probably won't be groundbreaking now. I was hoping that you had something else to offer. No matter, I just thought you would move to a logical and reasonable position. Nothing lost.
You've consistently failed to recognise "logical" and "reasonable" but for the longest time I hoped you would.
And yes, this is me being charitable.
Aha. Sure, Odeon. With your trainwreck of reasoning, demonstrated above, you are not the person to really judge such things.
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You wouldn't know.
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You wouldn't know.
I see "I know you are but what am I?" Winning argument tecnique there. Very impressive. Sells your position.
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You're flattering yourself if you think there is an actual argument.
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You're flattering yourself if you think there is an actual argument.
Dismissive snark is a slightly better tactic...slightly
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It's what I've been doing all along. You don't have substance enough for an argument.
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It's what I've been doing all along. You don't have substance enough for an argument.
Don't sell yourself short you have been doing a lot of stupid things in this thread. You have been making some really stupid premises that have been blown away, not just by me either.
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Here's a picture of my badass. :zoinks:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3534/3458461480_833f652155_z.jpg?zz=1)
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Aaack!!! Gopher ass!!!
My eyes, my eyes.
:runaway:
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It's what I've been doing all along. You don't have substance enough for an argument.
Don't sell yourself short you have been doing a lot of stupid things in this thread. You have been making some really stupid premises that have been blown away, not just by me either.
:rofl:
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It's what I've been doing all along. You don't have substance enough for an argument.
Don't sell yourself short you have been doing a lot of stupid things in this thread. You have been making some really stupid premises that have been blown away, not just by me either.
:rofl:
That's nice.
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Christa McAuliffe