INTENSITY²
Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: McGiver on June 16, 2013, 10:24:32 AM
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All great empires do. America will collapse once oil is not priced according to the dollar.
The petro dollar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_warfare)
http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/ (http://ftmdaily.com/preparing-for-the-collapse-of-the-petrodollar-system/)
Authored by Andrew McKillop,
PETRODOLLAR WAR
The theory of Petrodollar Warfare can be attributed to US analyst and author William R Clarke, and his 2005 book of that title which interpreted the US-UK decision to invade Iraq in 2003. He called this an "oil currency war", but the concept of the petrodollar system and petrodollar recyling dates back to the eve of the first Oil Shock in 1973-1974. The role of the petrodollar system as a driving force of US foreign policy is explained by analysts and historians as basic to maintaining the dollar's status as the world's dominant reserve currency - and the currency in which oil is priced.
The term "petrodollar warfare" as used by William R. Clark says that major international war, legal or not, was seen as justified to protect the petrodollar system. Over and above the loss of human life, the combined costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars for the US are controversial like the interpretation of these wars as "oil wars", but analysts like Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes put the total combined war cost at above $4 trillion. This can be compared with - and totally dwarfs - the annual cost of US oil imports, which are now sharply declining on a year-in year-out basis as domestic shale oil output ramps up, and US oil demand stagnates.
Clarke's theory, like the explanation of the role and power of the "petrodollar system" depends on two basic drivers. Most major developed countries rely on oil imports, which are purchased using dollars, so they are forced to hold large stockpiles of dollars in order to continue importing oil. In turn this also creates consistent demand for dollars, and prevents the dollar from losing its relative international monetary value, regardless of what happens to the US economy.
Variants of the Petrodollar War concept include the role of oil currency conflicts and rivalry, notably concerning US relations with Iran, Venezuela and Russia, and possibly with Europe concerning the gradual replacement of US dollars with the euro, for oil transactions. More important, the entire petromoney system and the potential for Petrodollar War hinges on global oil import demand and the oil price. Both of these have to hold up. When or if they do not, foreign oil importer nations who formerly found it beneficial to hold dollars to pay for oil, would have to find some other (unexplained) reason for huge holdings of dollars, when their oil imports decline and-or oil prices also decline.
The "currency war" variant of the petrodollar system theory, holding that a shift to notably euros or gold for oil payments would undermine the system, is unrealistic when given any serious analysis, because all world moneys are interchangeable or convertible, and gold is priced in US dollars.
THE THREE PHASES OF THE SYSTEM
These are easy to define.
1974-1986 The first phase. The 1972 start of "petrodollar recycling" initiated by Nixon and Kissinger just before the fivefold rise in oil prices of 1973-74, set the process of US-Saudi Arabian cooperation for the near-exclusive benefit of these two players. The US dollar was "backstopped" by the transfer of Saudi liquidities to the US Federal Reserve system banks, especially the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. A small number of other chosen central banks, especially the Bank of England, and the central banks of Germany, France, Italy and Japan also benefitted.
1986-1999 The second phase. This also featured US and Saudi control, but under Clinton's two mandates the focus radically changed to the controlled deflation or reduction of both oil prices and the world value of the US dollar. While the US continued to benefit from "petrodollar recycling", Saudi Arabia was the major loser, undoubtedly changing its perceptions of the system's utility to KSA.
2000-2013 The third and last phase. This period featured a major longterm rise in oil prices and the entry not in force, but progressively of the euro currency into the now enlarged "petromoney recycling" process. Euros now cover about 25% of global oil transactions, for an annual value of around €700 billion, with about the same amount of back-to-back additional lquidities. The massive growth of QE and central bank "easing", from 2008, has heavily reduced the role of "petromoney recycling".
Among the major changes of the petromoney system during these 3 phases, the first phase set the basic political concept among US deciders that "petrodollar recycling" could at one and the same time enable the US to run huge trade and budget deficits, low or very low interest rates, and prevent the collapse of the dollar's value due to the forced need of all world buyers of oil to hold US dollars to make purchases of oil. By the second phase, this underlying concept shaded to including non-oil assets as the focus of value manipulation, controlled inflation and controlled deflation of value. In the third phase, massive increases of the oil price to 2008 played a major role in enabling the continued depreciation of the dollar's world value as US sovereign debt also massively increased, but since 2008 and the start of central bank QE the need for, and role of the petrodollar system have heavily contracted.
THE SYSTEM IS NOW MENACED
Estimates of the exact size and role of petrodollars and petroeuros in the international money system, finance system, and economic system are varied. Many analysts however say the minimum role of the petrodollar system is to create, back-to-back, liquidities at least equivalent to the transaction value of the world oil trade, which for crude and products is about $3.4 trillion-a-year. Combined, the approximate minimum total $6.8 trillion annual value of oil trade plus the petromoney system is about 10% of world annual GNP, equivalent to about 45% of US annual GDP. This may appear as still large and important but has to be compared with, for example, the exposure of national private banks only in Europe in relation to national GDPs, which is often 300% - 400%.
Only QE can "plaster over" these liabilities.
Petromoney recycling is still treated by "the elites" as a critical prop to monetary system integrity, and explains why the USA is far from the only country depending on the system holding up. All oil producers, even smaller-sized, are beneficiaries the same way as all major developed nations' central banks, but the US is still the prime beneficiary. However, the basic supports for the system's operation - continuing high oil demand, high oil prices, and oil priced in dollars - have all weakened or are threatened, today. In particular when global oil demand declines or stagnates, and when oil prices decline, the dollars that will no longer be needed for global purchases of oil will return in massive amounts back to their country of origin, the USA. The consequences can only be dramatic, and threaten the start of a process completely unlike the Clinton-era controlled devaluation of the dollar's value along with the decline of oil prices consented by Saudi Arabia.
The now-menaced "petrodollar system" is also weakened because of worldwide change in the perception of oil and oil energy. From the dawn of the petroleum age to its accelerating twilight, today, geopolitical strategies concocted by developed nations featured the maintenance of secured access to world oil supplies. This was believed to be a win-win strategy for developed nation policy makers, and especially for US policy makers. From the 1970s and the first Oil Shock of 1973-1974, the only "morph' in this policy and strategy was to substitute expensive oil, for cheap oil.
For the USA's ability to run deficits and the petrodollar system, much higher oil prices were a major gain, not a loss, and this is almost surely still the perception of the Obama administration today.
In its first phase and last phase, the economic and political incentives for ensuring national access to oil supplies, and the existence of the petrodollar system as a monetary and finance tool - unrelated to the economy - worked better with higher oil prices. Today however, with the major and massive changes of oil resource availability revealed by the shale energy revolution, rising global oil production capabilities, stagnating oil demand, and rising renewable energy supplies in all major developed countries, and the constantly declining role of oil in the economy, the Petrodollar System's days are surely numbered, like the notion that $100-oil prices are "normal".
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-20/guest-post-coming-collapse-petrodollar-system (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-20/guest-post-coming-collapse-petrodollar-system)
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Actually that's a symptom of the real problem. Here is why my beloved country will collapse.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558098_338671199582968_873171535_n.jpg
The reason is US. We fucked up. We bent over, and took the diamond studded cock of the 1% RIGHT IN THE ASS.
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Actually that's a symptom of the real problem. Here is why my beloved country will collapse.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558098_338671199582968_873171535_n.jpg
The reason is US. We fucked up. We bent over, and took the diamond studded cock of the 1% RIGHT IN THE ASS.
that isn't a problem as long as we can print more and more money with experiencing sharp inflation. The petrodollar keeps that from happening, because there is always a demand for the dollar.
Wipe out the petro dollar and our entire monetary system will collapse.
Even though the 1% get all they want, and the common man is exploited, America is still strong because of our military and the dollar.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
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One evil empire down. Two more to go.
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I keep hearing about how the united states will collapse, and yet it never does. I don't believe it-for several reasons
First of all. The government is now nothing more that a babysitter of 300+ million people. Imagine a country collapse, with tons of weapons. millions of people will be killed, The government won't simply let that happen and I don't believe it wont. Keep in mind, If money was going to doom the economy it would have already done so back in 2008.
In times past, more barbaric practices were allowed to happen because that's what people were used to. So it wasn't shocking to rape/kill/pillage/whatever
In todays world, the only way I can see a total collapse of any big government is if some natural disaster like Yellowstone, or something from space completely annihilating everything, with a few stragllers left to rebuild. then a government would collapse
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
As long as the countries with power and money don't find the alternative appealing either, the USA will not collapse. It will be owned more and more by China and the Arab countries though.
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Anarchism is always appealing :viking:
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
As long as the countries with power and money don't find the alternative appealing either, the USA will not collapse. It will be owned more and more by China and the Arab countries though.
They can own as much as they want to they will never collect it
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
As long as the countries with power and money don't find the alternative appealing either, the USA will not collapse. It will be owned more and more by China and the Arab countries though.
They can own as much as they want to they will never collect it
Probably not.
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I keep hearing about how the united states will collapse, and yet it never does. I don't believe it-for several reasons
First of all. The government is now nothing more that a babysitter of 300+ million people. Imagine a country collapse, with tons of weapons. millions of people will be killed, The government won't simply let that happen and I don't believe it wont. Keep in mind, If money was going to doom the economy it would have already done so back in 2008.
In times past, more barbaric practices were allowed to happen because that's what people were used to. So it wasn't shocking to rape/kill/pillage/whatever
In todays world, the only way I can see a total collapse of any big government is if some natural disaster like Yellowstone, or something from space completely annihilating everything, with a few stragllers left to rebuild. then a government would collapse
Don't count on it Richard. The former state of Yugoslavia and Rwanda both went to hell in very short order. Some people might not mind having the opportunity to take out a congressman, reporter or system attack dog in the event of chaos. As for the UN I don't believe there would be many compunctions about blasting blue beanies.
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Wouldn't you take them all out in the event of a collapse? The politicians, the cops, the judges, the bureaucrats. There will never be a better opportunity :eyelash:
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Some have greater value than others either inherent in their position or just more personally offensive. :dunno:.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
As long as the countries with power and money don't find the alternative appealing either, the USA will not collapse. It will be owned more and more by China and the Arab countries though.
Not that simple, because I'm not sure China or the Arabs can keep the nation going indefinitely.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
This can be stopped.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
This can be stopped.
I'm not sure people realise that it must.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
This can be stopped.
I'm not sure people realise that it must.
Its the pure definition of evil.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
This can be stopped.
I'm not sure people realise that it must.
Its the pure definition of evil.
No, it's not. It's a financial problem.
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Those guys starting "war on terror" etc are pure evil, though.
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Nah, they are no more evil than the terrorists they claim to fight.
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:orly:
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One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
This can be stopped.
I'm not sure people realise that it must.
Its the pure definition of evil.
No, it's not. It's a financial problem.
Its a problem that some dude can't afford a 40th car this year, along with a third private jetliner. That's not a financial problem. Its an asshole problem.
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some people need three private jets. some people need assault rifles. who is to judge another person's property? don't we all believe in individual rights?
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Rage and I believe in the right to call a greedy mother fucking ingrate an asshole.
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Why America will collapse?
Corporate Jenga
(http://planetverge.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/jenga_negativeskew-300x214.jpg)
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Rage and I believe in the right to call a greedy mother fucking ingrate an asshole.
That we do, bro.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Yyw-Kcj2HK8/TTuqxPAFDEI/AAAAAAAAABg/f0nLk65XAoI/s320/forearm+shake.jpg)
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If money was going to collapse the United States then you can kiss the rest of the world goodbye aswell.
I don't think money will ever collapse anything here because It is "To big to Fail".
Maybe the NWO can set up a new money system when the paper becomes worthless. and the devil can pop out of the ground already, :evillaugh:
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and the devil can pop out of the ground already, :evillaugh:
Already here
Thats McJ
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One evil empire down. Two more to go.
Yes, the Roman Empire now rots in the vomitorium of history! :trollface:
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
Expect me on your doorstep, weighted down with luggage, crying. Get my room ready! :autism:
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Already here
Thats McJ
The devil does makes a lot of people's ass hurt.
But I understand that you are a bitter nasty person, looking for any way to attack. much like the devil
you are the devil.
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Wouldn't you take them all out in the event of a collapse? The politicians, the cops, the judges, the bureaucrats. There will never be a better opportunity :eyelash:
But, what about my internet, what about my cable service? :emosad:
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
I'll have you know that my obese ass gets around in buses and cabs, thank you very much. :M
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
I'll have you know that my obese ass gets around in buses and cabs, thank you very much. :M
Then it will only be half your fault, madam.
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Already here
Thats McJ
The devil does makes a lot of people's ass hurt.
But I understand that you are a bitter nasty person, looking for any way to attack. much like the devil
you are the devil.
but I only attack you and McJ
Thats not so bad
Hell y'all deserve it
He's the devil and you're the dumbass
Dumb and Dumber
The Odd Couple
Ozzie and Harriet
,etc.
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
I'll have you know that my obese ass gets around in buses and cabs, thank you very much. :M
Then it will only be half your fault, madam.
There are hundreds of millions of us here, it will be far less than half my fault. :M
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
I'll have you know that my obese ass gets around in buses and cabs, thank you very much. :M
Then it will only be half your fault, madam.
There are hundreds of millions of us here, it will be far less than half my fault. :M
I can't argue with your mathematical genius, madam.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
Yes, encouraged by the 1%. And we fell for it. Bamboozled I say!
It's been going on for half a century or more. It's nothing new.
This can be stopped.
I'm not sure people realise that it must.
Its the pure definition of evil.
No, it's not. It's a financial problem.
Its a problem that some dude can't afford a 40th car this year, along with a third private jetliner. That's not a financial problem. Its an asshole problem.
Of course it is, but that's not why you are in the middle of a financial emergency.
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What happened in 2008 was nothing, Richard. You've had a few close calls since in the US, with whole states about to cancel payments.
I don't know if the US will collapse or not, tbh. I hope not, because the alternatives aren't very appealing.
Expect me on your doorstep, weighted down with luggage, crying. Get my room ready! :autism:
:laugh:
I'll make sure you have plenty of space to hoard.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
That's probably right. Generation Y understands that they are the ones who will be stuck with this debt and if they refuse to pay it, The dollar, the US economy and US Gov will all collapse about the same time.
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That's probably right. Generation Y understands that they are the ones who will be stuck with this debt and if they refuse to pay it, The dollar, the US economy and US Gov will all collapse about the same time.
Meh, it's just like Parts said on page one. They'll never try to collect it. Foreigners just get all wet in the panties at the idea of the US collapsing, but the world depends on a stable American economy. The US alone makes up a full third of the world's consumer market. Americans are the ones buying all the crap everyone else makes and sells. Richard made the best point in this thread.
If money was going to collapse the United States then you can kiss the rest of the world goodbye aswell.
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
I'm funny. :lol1:
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
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Actually the most probable reason to a collapse is that you spend more than you earn.
That's probably right. Generation Y understands that they are the ones who will be stuck with this debt and if they refuse to pay it, The dollar, the US economy and US Gov will all collapse about the same time.
Not unlikely. Although Generation Y is about Generation Y, always. They are about what's in it for them, never the other way around.
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That's probably right. Generation Y understands that they are the ones who will be stuck with this debt and if they refuse to pay it, The dollar, the US economy and US Gov will all collapse about the same time.
Meh, it's just like Parts said on page one. They'll never try to collect it. Foreigners just get all wet in the panties at the idea of the US collapsing, but the world depends on a stable American economy. The US alone makes up a full third of the world's consumer market. Americans are the ones buying all the crap everyone else makes and sells. Richard made the best point in this thread.
If money was going to collapse the United States then you can kiss the rest of the world goodbye aswell.
This is true and why I don't see that it is in anyone's interest to have the US collapse.
But in all fairness, nope, the rest of the world is not waiting for the US to collapse. They are busy watching themselves collapse. Have a look at the Euro zone, for example.
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
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My part of it is going to collapse under the weight of all this snow. :zombiefuck:
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Everything has an expiry date. Western civilization in general will probably collapse within the next few decades.
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
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But in all fairness, nope, the rest of the world is not waiting for the US to collapse.
Yeah, well I think they're sitting around watching re-runs of COPS, sucking down Mcburgers and Starbucks, chuckling about dead American babies at Disney Land, obsessing on anything USA and finding pleasure in every single perceived American failure they can cling to. :orly:
They are busy watching themselves collapse. Have a look at the Euro zone, for example.
Lots of countries have a huge vested interest in the actions taking place in the middle east. Some just need to pick up the financial burden of others in order for a successful outcome for all, and if things actually get really bad for the euro then I think that will happen because the world depends on a stable economy in Europe too. :dunno:
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
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But in all fairness, nope, the rest of the world is not waiting for the US to collapse.
Yeah, well I think they're sitting around watching re-runs of COPS, sucking down Mcburgers and Starbucks, chuckling about dead American babies at Disney Land, obsessing on anything USA and finding pleasure in every single perceived American failure they can cling to. :orly:
No, not really. It's quite the other way around, even though the US has worked on wrecking its image the last couple of years.
They are busy watching themselves collapse. Have a look at the Euro zone, for example.
Lots of countries have a huge vested interest in the actions taking place in the middle east. Some just need to pick up the financial burden of others in order for a successful outcome for all, and if things actually get really bad for the euro then I think that will happen because the world depends on a stable economy in Europe too. :dunno:
The problem with the Euro zone is less about the middle east than it is about the EU getting greedy and accepting members it shouldn't have accepted in its eagerness to break apart the old Soviet sphere of influence. Several of the newer members shouldn't have been accepted.
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No, not really. It's quite the other way around, even though the US has worked on wrecking its image the last couple of years.
It's impossible for it to be the other way around. They're like pigs lined up at a tabloid TV trough gobbling up every last bite of sensationalized slop, then they turn around a belch: Them stupid Americans shove crap down my throat. :belch: I met this guy on Al's site I really liked. He talked about his fellow typical walk-of-the-mill britts like the white trash they are. Now that's someone I don't mind mocking the US, because at least he can laugh at himself too. People like that are very uncommon on the internet, especially from Europe.
The problem with the Euro zone is less about the middle east than it is about the EU getting greedy and accepting members it shouldn't have accepted in its eagerness to break apart the old Soviet sphere of influence. Several of the newer members shouldn't have been accepted.
The problem with the stability of economics in Europe is directly related to the middle east and all of the new people being allowed in, but it makes sense that's what the media is portraying to the public as politically motivated greed. When the US faltered a bit, the media blamed the Clinton administration and the housing boom. :dunno:
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.
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No, not really. It's quite the other way around, even though the US has worked on wrecking its image the last couple of years.
It's impossible for it to be the other way around. They're like pigs lined up at a tabloid TV trough gobbling up every last bite of sensationalized slop, then they turn around a belch: Them stupid Americans shove crap down my throat. :belch: I met this guy on Al's site I really liked. He talked about his fellow typical walk-of-the-mill britts like the white trash they are. Now that's someone I don't mind mocking the US, because at least he can laugh at himself too. People like that are very uncommon on the internet, especially from Europe.
People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.
But you don't live in Europe, AFAIK. You don't frequently travel in it. I do, and my impression remains different from yours.
The problem with the Euro zone is less about the middle east than it is about the EU getting greedy and accepting members it shouldn't have accepted in its eagerness to break apart the old Soviet sphere of influence. Several of the newer members shouldn't have been accepted.
The problem with the stability of economics in Europe is directly related to the middle east and all of the new people being allowed in, but it makes sense that's what the media is portraying to the public as politically motivated greed. When the US faltered a bit, the media blamed the Clinton administration and the housing boom. :dunno:
We'll just have to disagree, won't we?
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.
I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.
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People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.
I don't really know that many people. :tard: My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. :-\
We'll just have to disagree, won't we?
Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. :dunno:
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Hi everyone!
Here's something I like to think about:
If we, clever aspies, are here on a forum talking about America's impending downfall as inevitable - we cannot be the only ones who thought about this. We draw our clever paralels to previous empires, such as the Roman, we look at how empires grow and fall.
Don't you all think Americans also thought about this? Russians, the Chinese?
A country like China, as humongous and stable as it is right now, I predict it has the capacity to endure a status quo for quite some time. Through all the instability that has affected the world in the past 50 years, China still stands, Russia still stands, and USA still stands.
In fact, they have all grown in power, and Russia has expanded its borders on two or three occasions (three if you count the 2nd Chechnyan war as a reconquest of lost territory)
They are still eyeing out Abkhazia, Transnistria and more of Ukraine, as well as "theoretical" claims that cover all of Russian Imperial land (this would bring Poland, Balticum, Caucasus, Central-Asia and Finland back under Russian control)
My point is - people live and learn.
The Roman empire was not just taken back, but dismantled completely - not even Italy remained in the end, and in Medieval Europe, the previous frontiers of this empire were completely gone, and not a trace could be recognized: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Europe_map_1092.PNG)
(culture and such obviously survives, I'm talking about "territorial integrity", the existence of a political entity)
Compare this to Germany in the 1940s, it changes its political identity to an "Empire", and conquers tons of land - then falls apart. Disregarding technicalities and reasons - this is an example of a modern empire, that breaks up: German core regions still make out the country, although it is divided in two, for then to re-unite into the original pre-conquest variant (with a few losses, especially to Poland).
The Japanese empire also suffered similar losses - a collapse of all non-Japanese territory, but the actual island of Japan remaining firmly in Japanese control.
The Ottoman empire - the same story - non-Turk areas fell from their control, but Turkey is today the direct successor of the Ottoman empire, and still covers large non-Turk areas (Armenian and Kurdish) resulting in bloodbaths and ethnic cleansing.
America, Russia, China, may very well never collapse. They might lose some of their non-core areas, IF we compare with historical cases.
If we don't compare with historical cases, they might - just might - have found out how to not collapse so damn easily.
Sometimes I consider the possibility that America will indeed keep outdoing both Russia and China in applicable military power, and become a truly unstoppable force - one that will never crumble or collapse or implode, but just exist, exist and exist, untill humanity is all about enslavement and nothing else.
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I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. :green:
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I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. :green:
There is planning something grand -
and there is maintaining the impression of planning something grand.
What is likely however, and we will see how it goes - is that Russia is going to need to maintain the Donbass area actively hostile. Russia might do what it can, to prevent a proper conclusion. Russia won't invade itself, to annex Donbass, and will not do anything to stop the Ukrainians from fighting there openly, despite its open rethorics about how evil Ukraine is towards the Russian speakers of the area. So far, we can observe this happening right now.
According to a Russian analyst, a conclusive peace in Donbass would cut away all hostile and problematic areas from Ukraine, and bring Ukraine right back on track concerning joining up with the EU and NATO, and it would also bring closer the real issue of Crimea, that Ukraine DOES want back, and WILL try to reclaim - at some point or other - preferably with the help of NATO.
From Russian point of view, the countdown to the Crimea contract ending, was a countdown to Russian access to Middle east and Mediterranean to end, their black-sea fleet to end. That is a huge chunk of global dominance - ending!
They had to take physical control over Crimea (which, truly, has been Russian before - although this is not a good reason to conquer something, cus every European country had territory once that now is controlled by others)
I've seen many aspies use this "but if you check on Wikipedia, Crimea DID belong to Russia :'o their conquest is noble and pure!" this is one of the reasons why I sometimes hate aspies. Just because you wikied something today, and the fact fascinated you, doesn't mean you have done some kind of goddamn revelation >:'I
Either way, the continued existence of Russia, as a power - is to the Russian leadership - closely closely tied to Crimea - and with that - the continued existence of unstability in Ukraine. As long as Ukraine has "too much on its plate" it will not be allowed into NATO or EU, and it will not feel ready to retake Crimea.
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.
I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.
Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy. :laugh:
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People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.
I don't really know that many people. :tard: My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. :-\
Just so you know, I'm not really upset at you about that stuff. Most of the time I just find it hypocritical and annoying. Foreigners constant blabbing about the americans is usually more like flies buzzing around making noise I don't like. But every now and then I come across things that really do upset me, and I've had a couple of recent experiences like that, so I'm probably being much more sensitive about it than usual. One was that stupid piece of crumpled up german newspaper. I can't even figure out why that bothered me, but I think that piece of paper is going to bug me for a long time. The other thing was something that was said here. I think it was a really messed up thing to say, and things like that make me wonder exactly how much genuine deep-seeded hatred is simply being veiled behind obsessive interest and mockery. Paranoid thoughts like that is what actually creeps me out, not necessarily the messed up things people say.
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I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. :green:
There is planning something grand -
and there is maintaining the impression of planning something grand.
What is likely however, and we will see how it goes - is that Russia is going to need to maintain the Donbass area actively hostile. Russia might do what it can, to prevent a proper conclusion. Russia won't invade itself, to annex Donbass, and will not do anything to stop the Ukrainians from fighting there openly, despite its open rethorics about how evil Ukraine is towards the Russian speakers of the area. So far, we can observe this happening right now.
According to a Russian analyst, a conclusive peace in Donbass would cut away all hostile and problematic areas from Ukraine, and bring Ukraine right back on track concerning joining up with the EU and NATO, and it would also bring closer the real issue of Crimea, that Ukraine DOES want back, and WILL try to reclaim - at some point or other - preferably with the help of NATO.
From Russian point of view, the countdown to the Crimea contract ending, was a countdown to Russian access to Middle east and Mediterranean to end, their black-sea fleet to end. That is a huge chunk of global dominance - ending!
They had to take physical control over Crimea (which, truly, has been Russian before - although this is not a good reason to conquer something, cus every European country had territory once that now is controlled by others)
I've seen many aspies use this "but if you check on Wikipedia, Crimea DID belong to Russia :'o their conquest is noble and pure!" this is one of the reasons why I sometimes hate aspies. Just because you wikied something today, and the fact fascinated you, doesn't mean you have done some kind of goddamn revelation >:'I
Either way, the continued existence of Russia, as a power - is to the Russian leadership - closely closely tied to Crimea - and with that - the continued existence of unstability in Ukraine. As long as Ukraine has "too much on its plate" it will not be allowed into NATO or EU, and it will not feel ready to retake Crimea.
That may all be true, but I don't think all those rootin tootin Putin photos are about that. That's PR stunt being directed at the entire world. The world is talking about Putin, and in a positive way. I think he's gearing up to be someone's hero. :orly:
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I think Putin's gearing up for something grand with all the fancy manly photos out there. Since China is taking care of the US, maybe the Euro financial bailouts are going to come from Russia. :green:
There is planning something grand -
and there is maintaining the impression of planning something grand.
What is likely however, and we will see how it goes - is that Russia is going to need to maintain the Donbass area actively hostile. Russia might do what it can, to prevent a proper conclusion. Russia won't invade itself, to annex Donbass, and will not do anything to stop the Ukrainians from fighting there openly, despite its open rethorics about how evil Ukraine is towards the Russian speakers of the area. So far, we can observe this happening right now.
According to a Russian analyst, a conclusive peace in Donbass would cut away all hostile and problematic areas from Ukraine, and bring Ukraine right back on track concerning joining up with the EU and NATO, and it would also bring closer the real issue of Crimea, that Ukraine DOES want back, and WILL try to reclaim - at some point or other - preferably with the help of NATO.
From Russian point of view, the countdown to the Crimea contract ending, was a countdown to Russian access to Middle east and Mediterranean to end, their black-sea fleet to end. That is a huge chunk of global dominance - ending!
They had to take physical control over Crimea (which, truly, has been Russian before - although this is not a good reason to conquer something, cus every European country had territory once that now is controlled by others)
I've seen many aspies use this "but if you check on Wikipedia, Crimea DID belong to Russia :'o their conquest is noble and pure!" this is one of the reasons why I sometimes hate aspies. Just because you wikied something today, and the fact fascinated you, doesn't mean you have done some kind of goddamn revelation >:'I
Either way, the continued existence of Russia, as a power - is to the Russian leadership - closely closely tied to Crimea - and with that - the continued existence of unstability in Ukraine. As long as Ukraine has "too much on its plate" it will not be allowed into NATO or EU, and it will not feel ready to retake Crimea.
That may all be true, but I don't think all those rootin tootin Putin photos are about that. That's PR stunt being directed at the entire world. The world is talking about Putin, and in a positive way. I think he's gearing up to be someone's hero. :orly:
I think those butch photos are aimed mostly at Russians.
Analysts in Russia will be well aware of how these photos will be seen differently in "the west", where we - quite frankly - see them as a bit humorous. Mister president all bare-chested riding a horse in the wilderness, we KNOW his office isn't in the fucking wilderness, the first thing we think is "lol, pr stunt. but cool still."
To the Russians however, it will probably be much more powerful (and also more polarizing (and less lulzy))
I would, as a thinking, intellectual person, be quite worried, if our prime minister first used trickery to stay in office for longer than usual - then begun to pose bare chested in the wilderness, alluding to warriors and vikings and machoness. As a resident - I wouldn't find it funny.
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People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.
I don't really know that many people. :tard: My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. :-\
Because the internet told you so?
You're grossly overstating it. It's not like that, at all. There's no hate, not like that, but there's also no obsession. The US will always be a part of the news because it's so big, but what you call an obsession is more of an influence because of the size.
You'd be surprised by how Europeans mock themselves. I guess the internet is not telling you everything you need to know.
We'll just have to disagree, won't we?
Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. :dunno:
???
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Hi everyone!
Here's something I like to think about:
If we, clever aspies, are here on a forum talking about America's impending downfall as inevitable - we cannot be the only ones who thought about this. We draw our clever paralels to previous empires, such as the Roman, we look at how empires grow and fall.
Don't you all think Americans also thought about this? Russians, the Chinese?
A country like China, as humongous and stable as it is right now, I predict it has the capacity to endure a status quo for quite some time. Through all the instability that has affected the world in the past 50 years, China still stands, Russia still stands, and USA still stands.
In fact, they have all grown in power, and Russia has expanded its borders on two or three occasions (three if you count the 2nd Chechnyan war as a reconquest of lost territory)
They are still eyeing out Abkhazia, Transnistria and more of Ukraine, as well as "theoretical" claims that cover all of Russian Imperial land (this would bring Poland, Balticum, Caucasus, Central-Asia and Finland back under Russian control)
My point is - people live and learn.
The Roman empire was not just taken back, but dismantled completely - not even Italy remained in the end, and in Medieval Europe, the previous frontiers of this empire were completely gone, and not a trace could be recognized: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Europe_map_1092.PNG)
(culture and such obviously survives, I'm talking about "territorial integrity", the existence of a political entity)
Compare this to Germany in the 1940s, it changes its political identity to an "Empire", and conquers tons of land - then falls apart. Disregarding technicalities and reasons - this is an example of a modern empire, that breaks up: German core regions still make out the country, although it is divided in two, for then to re-unite into the original pre-conquest variant (with a few losses, especially to Poland).
The Japanese empire also suffered similar losses - a collapse of all non-Japanese territory, but the actual island of Japan remaining firmly in Japanese control.
The Ottoman empire - the same story - non-Turk areas fell from their control, but Turkey is today the direct successor of the Ottoman empire, and still covers large non-Turk areas (Armenian and Kurdish) resulting in bloodbaths and ethnic cleansing.
America, Russia, China, may very well never collapse. They might lose some of their non-core areas, IF we compare with historical cases.
If we don't compare with historical cases, they might - just might - have found out how to not collapse so damn easily.
Sometimes I consider the possibility that America will indeed keep outdoing both Russia and China in applicable military power, and become a truly unstoppable force - one that will never crumble or collapse or implode, but just exist, exist and exist, untill humanity is all about enslavement and nothing else.
I doubt any one of them will survive in the end, but it might take some time for them to fall. I believe the smaller countries stand a better chance.
OTOH, it's just a feeling I have.
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.
I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.
Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy. :laugh:
How so? The Chinese economy is slowing down, according to some very recent reports.
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People like that are uncommon, period. I notice that you are rather quick categorising the Europeans, too.
I don't really know that many people. :tard: My perception is based on reading the internet, and I don't think it's uncommon at all for americans mock the flaws within their own society and government, and they also quickly jump on the band wagon when people from other countries do it. What's uncommon is to see people from foreign countries mocking themselves, in fact mocking anywhere at all other than the US. And yeah, I'm quick to categorize Europeans into that, because they're highly Americanized due to being completely obsessed with what they seem to hate. It's creepy. :-\
Just so you know, I'm not really upset at you about that stuff. Most of the time I just find it hypocritical and annoying. Foreigners constant blabbing about the americans is usually more like flies buzzing around making noise I don't like. But every now and then I come across things that really do upset me, and I've had a couple of recent experiences like that, so I'm probably being much more sensitive about it than usual. One was that stupid piece of crumpled up german newspaper. I can't even figure out why that bothered me, but I think that piece of paper is going to bug me for a long time. The other thing was something that was said here. I think it was a really messed up thing to say, and things like that make me wonder exactly how much genuine deep-seeded hatred is simply being veiled behind obsessive interest and mockery. Paranoid thoughts like that is what actually creeps me out, not necessarily the messed up things people say.
I think it's pretty obvious that you are upset. What I don't know is what you are upset about, because I don't recognise the Europe you seem to be talking about. At all.
Oh, and if you're not saying what it is that was said that you are so upset about, then I can only shrug and move on. Someone is always going to be upset about something.
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I think those butch photos are aimed mostly at Russians.
QFT
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Because the internet told you so?
You're grossly overstating it. It's not like that, at all. There's no hate, not like that, but there's also no obsession. The US will always be a part of the news because it's so big, but what you call an obsession is more of an influence because of the size.
Yeah that's right, the internet told me so. I don't spend time in other countries so that's how I've gotten my impression about how people in other countries obsess on the US. I don't see people so obsessed with China because of it's size. Maybe the internet isn't telling me everything I need to know, and I'm missing all the foreigners obsessed with Chinese pop culture and stupid tabloid level spew the average Chinese person doesn't even see in their own local news. Let's say I'm obsessed with Nike. I buy all their crap, I buy their stock, I watch all their commercials, I'm well read about their corporate leaders, and always up to date on the goings on of company infrastructure and changes. As frequently as I can, I absorb myself some Nike. Along with all that, I never have anything positive to say about Nike, I say they're a shit company, I bash their leaders, I mock the stars in their commercials, and gossip like a schoolgirl about every internal happening I can find out. Then someone comes along and says, just stop obsessing on Nike if you hate it so much, and I say, Nike will always be in the mall because it's so big, and it's not an obsession I'm just influenced by it's size. I can't get away from Nike because every time I go to the mall there it is. But okay, it's the fault of the US for being so big that everyday people from other countries think and talk about it so much. :dunno:
You'd be surprised by how Europeans mock themselves. I guess the internet is not telling you everything you need to know.
First you said people like that are uncommon. Period. And now I'm supposed to be surprised just how common it really is. :dunno:
Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. :dunno:
???
I'm not sure why you're ???
I think it's pretty obvious that you are upset. What I don't know is what you are upset about, because I don't recognise the Europe you seem to be talking about. At all.
Oh, and if you're not saying what it is that was said that you are so upset about, then I can only shrug and move on. Someone is always going to be upset about something.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Nothing was actually said. I made a smart ass remark to Pappy about how foreigners get all wet in the panties thinking about thinking about the US collapsing, and you wanted to contradict me about that. I think too many people where you live are watching Jerry Springer and eating Subway. I was just saying I'm not mad at you, and being honest that I might be a little more sensitive about obsessed foreigners than I normally would be.
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I think those butch photos are aimed mostly at Russians.
Analysts in Russia will be well aware of how these photos will be seen differently in "the west", where we - quite frankly - see them as a bit humorous. Mister president all bare-chested riding a horse in the wilderness, we KNOW his office isn't in the fucking wilderness, the first thing we think is "lol, pr stunt. but cool still."
To the Russians however, it will probably be much more powerful (and also more polarizing (and less lulzy))
I would, as a thinking, intellectual person, be quite worried, if our prime minister first used trickery to stay in office for longer than usual - then begun to pose bare chested in the wilderness, alluding to warriors and vikings and machoness. As a resident - I wouldn't find it funny.
That's a really good explanation, Zeg, and I never considered it could be a scare tactic. Something or another will probably make me think of this conversation again later. Remind me if something makes you think of it too. :thumbup:
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It's more of a solidification of personality cult, than a direct scare tactic, is what I mean.
My point is - we, the outsiders, see it as kindova gag, while in reality it's more serious than that. We would experience the seriousness much more, if we suddenly saw Obama doing the same thing "what in the... has he lost his mind?"
You can draw a paralel to the macho posturing Mussolini did, for example. Italians back then weren't stupid either, they recognized his exaggerated gestures, but to a supporter - it is proof of his "balls", his vigor, his eagerness, it is a "no bullshit" kind of man, who is not afraid of how he is percieved.
To the opponents, it is the "final proof" that he is completely nuts, totally unfit to rule anybody. It polarizes.
Hitler did the same thing, he would photograph and then perfect his wild arm flailing, the eye-roll-back faces, all that stuff, in order to deliberately come off as "something else", a nutter, a maniac, a genius, a monster, a demon, a god - but not a mere person. Again, this means his followers will exalt him, and his opponents fear him as someone who has gone insane.
In retrospect - or seen from the outside, this behavior just looks theatrical and silly, and we chuckle at it :D
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In retrospect - or seen from the outside, this behavior just looks theatrical and silly, and we chuckle at it :D
Yeah, I really have a hard time understanding how anyone would think anything bad about it. :lol1:
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.
I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.
Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy. :laugh:
How so? The Chinese economy is slowing down, according to some very recent reports.
The woman on the other side of my cube wall is a product developer who works directly with the company's Asian branches and factories overseas. Recently heard her on the phone having a fit about a late add to an import product line. She said China completely shuts down for the month of January and this year we can count February out too, so they're nuts if they think they're going to get that product in time. Your mention of recent reports reminded me of overhearing that. China's economy slows dramatically every Chinese new year. http://www.economist.com/news/china/21643229-growth-slowing-calendar-overstates-problem-lunar-eclipse (http://www.economist.com/news/china/21643229-growth-slowing-calendar-overstates-problem-lunar-eclipse) China has experienced steady economic growth for decades, with extreme growth over the past fifteen years. Though it's true that growth is slowing, but slowing of growth is still growth, and not sure what point is being made about how people are treated as indicative of that. It's probably more indicative of the economic slowing of the countries that import their goods.
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Though it's true that growth is slowing, but slowing of growth is still growth, and not sure what point is being made about how people are treated as indicative of that.
China's economy is slowing down because that's what happens when a workforce enters its teens. :zoinks:
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Because the internet told you so?
You're grossly overstating it. It's not like that, at all. There's no hate, not like that, but there's also no obsession. The US will always be a part of the news because it's so big, but what you call an obsession is more of an influence because of the size.
Yeah that's right, the internet told me so. I don't spend time in other countries so that's how I've gotten my impression about how people in other countries obsess on the US.
Well, your impression is wrong.
I don't see people so obsessed with China because of it's size. Maybe the internet isn't telling me everything I need to know, and I'm missing all the foreigners obsessed with Chinese pop culture and stupid tabloid level spew the average Chinese person doesn't even see in their own local news.
If there is a Chinese pop culture, it isn't very widespread outside the Chinese borders. AFAIK, most Western countries don't broadcast Chinese soaps.
Let's say I'm obsessed with Nike. I buy all their crap, I buy their stock, I watch all their commercials, I'm well read about their corporate leaders, and always up to date on the goings on of company infrastructure and changes. As frequently as I can, I absorb myself some Nike. Along with all that, I never have anything positive to say about Nike, I say they're a shit company, I bash their leaders, I mock the stars in their commercials, and gossip like a schoolgirl about every internal happening I can find out. Then someone comes along and says, just stop obsessing on Nike if you hate it so much, and I say, Nike will always be in the mall because it's so big, and it's not an obsession I'm just influenced by it's size. I can't get away from Nike because every time I go to the mall there it is. But okay, it's the fault of the US for being so big that everyday people from other countries think and talk about it so much. :dunno:
WTF are you on about? If this is supposed to be an analogy, it's failing miserably. It just isn't so.
But just for comparison, I had a chat with an American conference delegate over a beer, yesterday. He bashed his government to an extent I've not heard any European do. Go figure.
You'd be surprised by how Europeans mock themselves. I guess the internet is not telling you everything you need to know.
First you said people like that are uncommon. Period. And now I'm supposed to be surprised just how common it really is. :dunno:
You might want to go back and read it again. I was talking about Europeans bashing the US.
Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. :dunno:
???
I'm not sure why you're ???
Because I didn't understand your point.
I think it's pretty obvious that you are upset. What I don't know is what you are upset about, because I don't recognise the Europe you seem to be talking about. At all.
Oh, and if you're not saying what it is that was said that you are so upset about, then I can only shrug and move on. Someone is always going to be upset about something.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Nothing was actually said. I made a smart ass remark to Pappy about how foreigners get all wet in the panties thinking about thinking about the US collapsing, and you wanted to contradict me about that.
Because it's wrong. It's just not the case.
I think too many people where you live are watching Jerry Springer and eating Subway.
Bullshit. You think wrong. I have visited your country and can form an opinion. You should wait telling what my country is like until you've visited it. :finger:
I was just saying I'm not mad at you, and being honest that I might be a little more sensitive about obsessed foreigners than I normally would be.
Well, I am getting a bit annoyed. I've told you several times that you are talking out of your ass, albeit using a somewhat more delicate vocabulary, yet you either don't believe me or you simply ignore what I'm saying.
See, I have visited a number of countries, European and otherwise, many of them frequently enough to be able to form a reasonably informed opinion. I know people from these countries, some of whom have lived in more than one country in their lifetimes. But I just don't see it.
It's hard not to notice the US, considering its size and its influence, but that's a far cry from it being an obsession.
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China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.
The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.
It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.
Their problem is the way they treat their own.
Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.
I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.
Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy. :laugh:
How so? The Chinese economy is slowing down, according to some very recent reports.
The woman on the other side of my cube wall is a product developer who works directly with the company's Asian branches and factories overseas. Recently heard her on the phone having a fit about a late add to an import product line. She said China completely shuts down for the month of January and this year we can count February out too, so they're nuts if they think they're going to get that product in time. Your mention of recent reports reminded me of overhearing that. China's economy slows dramatically every Chinese new year. http://www.economist.com/news/china/21643229-growth-slowing-calendar-overstates-problem-lunar-eclipse (http://www.economist.com/news/china/21643229-growth-slowing-calendar-overstates-problem-lunar-eclipse) China has experienced steady economic growth for decades, with extreme growth over the past fifteen years. Though it's true that growth is slowing, but slowing of growth is still growth, and not sure what point is being made about how people are treated as indicative of that. It's probably more indicative of the economic slowing of the countries that import their goods.
http://fortune.com/2015/01/21/china-economy-growth-slowdown/ (http://fortune.com/2015/01/21/china-economy-growth-slowdown/)
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This conversation is getting too big for me to give a crap about breaking apart the quotes. I don't think my impression about obsessed foreigners is wrong at all. Europe is saturated with American culture because america sells and that's what they want to buy, and my impression about it being an obsessive love/hate relationship comes directly from what people have to say about the US and just how little they have to say about people and issues in their own society. It's weird and creepy. :dunno:
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In America people mass produce tv-series by their own free will - because it generates pissloads of money.
They sell the series to countries willing to buy them, and these countries get to fill up a big hole in the demand for entertainment.
It has then grown to become a norm.
It's not something we wake up in the morning going "Fuck Denmark! I want to watch some AMERICAN TV today! Fuck you too Finland! And you Slovakia, you can go fuck yourself!"
It's just "a norm", a self-feeding cycle. Stop Hollywood, and we have to deal with empty televisions and empty cinemas for a while, untill we slowly get the cogs rolling again.
Non-American interest in American TV is something that has often been brought up, by Americans, as an example of Europeans being totally obsessed with them.
There's another thing as well, you guys, Americans, are simply not used to watching foreign stuff, so I'll quickly explain how it works:
When I watch "Everybody loves Raymond" it's just that what I'm watching - it's not "Everybody loves that American guy, in America", it's just Raymond. Raymond is even a name over here. Raymond happens to speak English, with a nasal voice.
We don't sit around chanting "U-S-A!" whenever something American comes on tv, we just see people in stupid dramas.
Apart from American, British shows are very popular, and next to British, all of the obvious neighbors, in Norway, Swedish and Danish programs are popular.
Channels like "TVN" (guess what the N stands for) shows only Norwegian programming at least half the time.
Again, we don't get up in the morning going "SHIT! I LOVE/HATE AMERICA! Better some American entertainment on, so I can cry while I masturbate!", you guys just so happen to sell - we just so happen to not have to produce, by just buying it cheaply, so there we are.
If you guys were to stop, overnight, we wouldn't be missing America.
We would be missing 50% of our TV-series, regardless of their origin.
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http://fortune.com/2015/01/21/china-economy-growth-slowdown/ (http://fortune.com/2015/01/21/china-economy-growth-slowdown/)
Once again missed any point about the treatment. Reads like a lot of economic forecasting. There's probably no such thing as an economy that does nothing other than grow, so it probably doesn't take an economics degree to forecast they might have a recession in their future eventually. As to when or why that will happen, economist are definitely more fit to forecast that future than me. Very interesting though, they're already gearing up to blame the housing market and public consumerism. Economist said the same thing about the US without ever once pointing a finger at all the money spent on war, and if China experiences a recession in the near future wont be the least bit surprised if economist and the media blame housing and consumerism to general public of China while not a single finger is pointed at all the money that's been poured into the US. It's faulting the activities of the public sector to ignore what the government is doing.
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In America people mass produce tv-series by their own free will - because it generates pissloads of money.
They sell the series to countries willing to buy them, and these countries get to fill up a big hole in the demand for entertainment.
It has then grown to become a norm.
It's not something we wake up in the morning going "Fuck Denmark! I want to watch some AMERICAN TV today! Fuck you too Finland! And you Slovakia, you can go fuck yourself!"
It's just "a norm", a self-feeding cycle. Stop Hollywood, and we have to deal with empty televisions and empty cinemas for a while, untill we slowly get the cogs rolling again.
Non-American interest in American TV is something that has often been brought up, by Americans, as an example of Europeans being totally obsessed with them.
There's another thing as well, you guys, Americans, are simply not used to watching foreign stuff, so I'll quickly explain how it works:
When I watch "Everybody loves Raymond" it's just that what I'm watching - it's not "Everybody loves that American guy, in America", it's just Raymond. Raymond is even a name over here. Raymond happens to speak English, with a nasal voice.
We don't sit around chanting "U-S-A!" whenever something American comes on tv, we just see people in stupid dramas.
Apart from American, British shows are very popular, and next to British, all of the obvious neighbors, in Norway, Swedish and Danish programs are popular.
Channels like "TVN" (guess what the N stands for) shows only Norwegian programming at least half the time.
Again, we don't get up in the morning going "SHIT! I LOVE/HATE AMERICA! Better some American entertainment on, so I can cry while I masturbate!", you guys just so happen to sell - we just so happen to not have to produce, by just buying it cheaply, so there we are.
If you guys were to stop, overnight, we wouldn't be missing America.
We would be missing 50% of our TV-series, regardless of their origin.
There's a whole lot more of America in Europe than just TV, but I do think it's a big part of the issue because I believe American tv is largely garbage. That's not what bother's me, it's all the negative projecting about the people of America that comes along with it. I agree it's become the norm, but I also think it's become the norm to generally dislike and even hate americans as a whole, and to think of all americans in terms of negative stereotypes being absorb from the brain rotting garbage that's being consumed.
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The attention at America is a given. America is a very very active country, on the world stage. More than just mildly imperialistic, and quite present everywhere.
And you are indeed wrong about the America-hate. Many people STILL see America as this dream-land, where everything works out for everybody, where presidents are awesome, and kings and prime ministers belong to gay old fairy tales. The "anti-american" critic is not as common - out irl - as he is on the forums online, where he is loud and vocal about it.
America was much, much more hated back in the 70s, with the Vietnam war, than they are now. Norwegians still regard America as a top tourist destination for example, especially New York.
Personally, I would be so angsty in NY... :I
SO MANY PEOPLE! D:
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The attention at America is a given. America is a very very active country, on the world stage. More than just mildly imperialistic, and quite present everywhere.
And you are indeed wrong about the America-hate. Many people STILL see America as this dream-land, where everything works out for everybody, where presidents are awesome, and kings and prime ministers belong to gay old fairy tales. The "anti-american" critic is not as common - out irl - as he is on the forums online, where he is loud and vocal about it.
America was much, much more hated back in the 70s, with the Vietnam war, than they are now. Norwegians still regard America as a top tourist destination for example, especially New York.
Personally, I would be so angsty in NY... :I
SO MANY PEOPLE! D:
Fuck you and your excuses, Zeg. I know on some level you think I'm stupid and sub-human.
Soon you'll have to come over here again :0
NATO and all that :0
Allies :0
Sure we hate your fucking guts, but hey! Europa + America is like = Our guns suddenly multiplied with four.
That's a good deal, regardless of your goddamn, hopeless retardedness, borderline-analphabetism, fascist tendencies, racism, colonialism and corrupt world exploitation!
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Did I forget to add - I am one of those internet people.
Here I am!
On the internet - hating America!
Who am I? Surrounded by family members who love America, on most of my Norwegian side. My cousin has been working in Texas for years, he just recently returned home.
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Did I forget to add - I am one of those internet people.
Here I am!
On the internet - hating America!
Who am I? Surrounded by family members who love America, on most of my Norwegian side. My cousin has been working in Texas for years, he just recently returned home.
Yeah okay, fine, it's only the people on the interwebs who hate Americans. :dunno:
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Did I forget to add - I am one of those internet people.
Here I am!
On the internet - hating America!
Who am I? Surrounded by family members who love America, on most of my Norwegian side. My cousin has been working in Texas for years, he just recently returned home.
Yeah okay, fine, it's only the people on the interwebs who hate Americans. :dunno:
Is that any less likely than a stereotypical image of ALL snobby frenchy eurotrashies hating America?
What would we hate, if so? Your freedom?
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
The rest are eager buyers of American culture.
The minority - that is - the angry, loud, political-hearted activists, they hate America. Cus America is a war machine and all.
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Finally, theres like a 100 Europes. So, you'd better ask from country to country. Anti-Americanism is much more widespread in Eastern Europe. Over in the whole Donbass dramaland, journalists sometimes get attacked right away if they are - or seem to be American.
I can assure you, you won't be assaulted in Norway, just for being American. You'll probably be bothered instead, by people insisting on surprising you in some way "LOOK NO POLAR BEARS ;D SURPRISED HUH ;D"
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
I think odeon's already made the point I'm over exaggerating. I do it on purpose just to be a fucking cunt because I've grown tired of both the subtle and not so subtle jabs lumping americans as whole under the umbrella label of stupid waste of skin, so I lump the people who do it under the umbrella of obsessed freaks gobbling up our wasted skin. :green:
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
I think odeon's already made the point I'm over exaggerating. I do it on purpose just to be a fucking cunt because I've grown tired of both the subtle and not so subtle jabs lumping americans as whole under the umbrella label of stupid waste of skin, so I lump the people who do it under the umbrella of obsessed freaks gobbling up our wasted skin. :green:
I'm gonna tell you what I told a Mexican: Enjoy the attention!
Nobody makes fun of Norway, nobody hates us or loves us, criticizes us or sees us as heroes, invaders or liberators. The last people to hate us were the Irish, and that's a thousand years ago*, but they're fine with us now. Iceland loves us, but who gives a shit about Iceland
* Lord of the rings Era
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What would you rather have, peace or freedom?
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What would you rather have, peace or freedom?
Both they are not mutually exclusive
-
What would you rather have, peace or freedom?
Both they are not mutually exclusive
Sometimes they are.
-
In America people mass produce tv-series by their own free will - because it generates pissloads of money.
They sell the series to countries willing to buy them, and these countries get to fill up a big hole in the demand for entertainment.
It has then grown to become a norm.
It's not something we wake up in the morning going "Fuck Denmark! I want to watch some AMERICAN TV today! Fuck you too Finland! And you Slovakia, you can go fuck yourself!"
It's just "a norm", a self-feeding cycle. Stop Hollywood, and we have to deal with empty televisions and empty cinemas for a while, untill we slowly get the cogs rolling again.
Non-American interest in American TV is something that has often been brought up, by Americans, as an example of Europeans being totally obsessed with them.
There's another thing as well, you guys, Americans, are simply not used to watching foreign stuff, so I'll quickly explain how it works:
When I watch "Everybody loves Raymond" it's just that what I'm watching - it's not "Everybody loves that American guy, in America", it's just Raymond. Raymond is even a name over here. Raymond happens to speak English, with a nasal voice.
We don't sit around chanting "U-S-A!" whenever something American comes on tv, we just see people in stupid dramas.
Apart from American, British shows are very popular, and next to British, all of the obvious neighbors, in Norway, Swedish and Danish programs are popular.
Channels like "TVN" (guess what the N stands for) shows only Norwegian programming at least half the time.
Again, we don't get up in the morning going "SHIT! I LOVE/HATE AMERICA! Better some American entertainment on, so I can cry while I masturbate!", you guys just so happen to sell - we just so happen to not have to produce, by just buying it cheaply, so there we are.
If you guys were to stop, overnight, we wouldn't be missing America.
We would be missing 50% of our TV-series, regardless of their origin.
There's a whole lot more of America in Europe than just TV, but I do think it's a big part of the issue because I believe American tv is largely garbage. That's not what bother's me, it's all the negative projecting about the people of America that comes along with it. I agree it's become the norm, but I also think it's become the norm to generally dislike and even hate americans as a whole, and to think of all americans in terms of negative stereotypes being absorb from the brain rotting garbage that's being consumed.
Because the internet told you so. ::)
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
QFT
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
I think odeon's already made the point I'm over exaggerating. I do it on purpose just to be a fucking cunt because I've grown tired of both the subtle and not so subtle jabs lumping americans as whole under the umbrella label of stupid waste of skin, so I lump the people who do it under the umbrella of obsessed freaks gobbling up our wasted skin. :green:
Would you like to have some fries with that? :eyelash:
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
I think odeon's already made the point I'm over exaggerating. I do it on purpose just to be a fucking cunt because I've grown tired of both the subtle and not so subtle jabs lumping americans as whole under the umbrella label of stupid waste of skin, so I lump the people who do it under the umbrella of obsessed freaks gobbling up our wasted skin. :green:
I'm gonna tell you what I told a Mexican: Enjoy the attention!
Nobody makes fun of Norway, nobody hates us or loves us, criticizes us or sees us as heroes, invaders or liberators. The last people to hate us were the Irish, and that's a thousand years ago*, but they're fine with us now. Iceland loves us, but who gives a shit about Iceland
* Lord of the rings Era
But we make fun of you. :hahaha:
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
I think odeon's already made the point I'm over exaggerating. I do it on purpose just to be a fucking cunt because I've grown tired of both the subtle and not so subtle jabs lumping americans as whole under the umbrella label of stupid waste of skin, so I lump the people who do it under the umbrella of obsessed freaks gobbling up our wasted skin. :green:
I'm gonna tell you what I told a Mexican: Enjoy the attention!
Nobody makes fun of Norway, nobody hates us or loves us, criticizes us or sees us as heroes, invaders or liberators. The last people to hate us were the Irish, and that's a thousand years ago*, but they're fine with us now. Iceland loves us, but who gives a shit about Iceland
* Lord of the rings Era
But we make fun of you. :hahaha:
Actually, you could make a bit more fun. There's a huge disparity between the fun we make of you, and the fun you guys make in return :(
I saw some short clips, of these two Norwegian wilderness explorer parodies, that was pretty funny, except you guys really suck at Norwegian :D
But the angle of the gags was actually funny, I think an episode escalates in them both being both suicidal but optimistically supportive at the same time, while wilderness-exploring in Antarctica (thereof the suicidalness)
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What would you rather have, peace or freedom?
Both they are not mutually exclusive
Sometimes they are.
Sorry I don't want to live in a prison because no matter how nice someplace is if you are not free that is what it is.
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Because the internet told you so. ::)
Jack learns lots of things from the internet, most recently economic statistic of the US and China, and measles statistics of the world.
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Because the internet told you so. ::)
Jack learns lots of things from the internet, most recently economic statistic of the US and China, and measles statistics of the world.
Oh, and also suicide and homicide statistics of the incarcerated.
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Most people are just blissfully indifferent.
I think odeon's already made the point I'm over exaggerating. I do it on purpose just to be a fucking cunt because I've grown tired of both the subtle and not so subtle jabs lumping americans as whole under the umbrella label of stupid waste of skin, so I lump the people who do it under the umbrella of obsessed freaks gobbling up our wasted skin. :green:
Would you like to have some fries with that? :eyelash:
I thought the Eurotrash ate chips at their McDonald's. :zoinks:
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Because the internet told you so. ::)
Jack learns lots of things from the internet, most recently economic statistic of the US and China, and measles statistics of the world.
Oh, and also suicide and homicide statistics of the incarcerated.
Quit looking at graphs, Jack. :hahaha:
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Because the internet told you so. ::)
Jack learns lots of things from the internet, most recently economic statistic of the US and China, and measles statistics of the world.
You can also read up on murderous zombie rats on ships drifting towards the UK. :zoinks:
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Because the internet told you so. ::)
Jack learns lots of things from the internet, most recently economic statistic of the US and China, and measles statistics of the world.
You can also read up on murderous zombie rats on ships drifting towards the UK. :zoinks:
Is that what that article was about? :laugh:
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One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Oh, I forgot, that's what ISIS is fighting for, freedom. Yeeaaaaaahhhh....
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that's what ISIS is fighting for, freedom.
It's so easy to quote things out of context, don't you think?
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I read the context, it's in context.
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The discussion was about the possible collapse of the US and moved to what was then known as the war on terror. ISIS wasn't discussed, directly or indirectly.
You, on the other hand, appear to think ISIS are freedom fighters. I quoted you, didn't I?
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The discussion was about the possible collapse of the US and moved to what was then known as the war on terror. ISIS wasn't discussed, directly or indirectly.
You, on the other hand, appear to think ISIS are freedom fighters. I quoted you, didn't I?
You stated a "general principle" which is rarely, if ever true.
The American Revolutionaries and a few others have been true freedom fighters, all others are fighting for despots and despotic beliefs.
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America will collapse under the weight of their very own obese in their giant SUVs.
I'm funny. :lol1:
I really am. :lol1:
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The discussion was about the possible collapse of the US and moved to what was then known as the war on terror. ISIS wasn't discussed, directly or indirectly.
You, on the other hand, appear to think ISIS are freedom fighters. I quoted you, didn't I?
You stated a "general principle" which is rarely, if ever true.
The American Revolutionaries and a few others have been true freedom fighters, all others are fighting for despots and despotic beliefs.
The irony.
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^ Lack of reading skills, something you often accuse others of. Ironic? Yes.
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^ Lack of reading skills, something you often accuse others of. Ironic? Yes.
Deflecting much, Scrappy? Face it, you don't have a leg to stand on. You necrobumped an old thread in an attempt to cause drama but all that happens is that you look as stupid as you are.
Next.
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^ Lack of reading skills, something you often accuse others of. Ironic? Yes.
Deflecting much, Scrappy? Face it, you don't have a leg to stand on. You necrobumped an old thread in an attempt to cause drama but all that happens is that you look as stupid as you are.
Next.
No, not at all.
You said something utterly stupid and got called on it.
The majority of violent revolutions fail because they are motivated by some kind of authoritarian death cult.
These cult-like belief systems are self destructive and once they achieve power...
... they self destruct.
So no, one man's freedom fighter is not another man's terrorist. Only lazy thinkers like you believe that.
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I almost feel sorry for you. Almost. Do you know any history at all?
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Your cheap insults and attempts at distraction prove you've lost the argument.
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You necrobump something, quote me out of context, implying things I didn't say and no-one talked about, and you're acting butthurt now
There is no argument, you silly sod, there's just you talking out of your arse.
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I didn't quote you out of context, go back and look at your posts.
But then again, this is the same old tired game you always play.
When you get caught red handed saying stupid shit, you just weasel out of it.
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I don't want to argue with you today.
"caught red handed" is hilarious, though.
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I don't want to argue with you today.
"caught red handed" is hilarious, though.
For someone who "doesn't" argue, you sure do it a lot.