INTENSITY²

Politics, Mature and taboo => Political Pundits => Topic started by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 06:21:25 PM

Title: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 06:21:25 PM
I was busy crowing about the awesome success of defeating the assault weapons ban before it got off the ground that I didn't even notice that the proposal for stricter background checks was also defeated.

wut  http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/17/177638177/senate-rejects-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-sales (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/17/177638177/senate-rejects-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-sales) <------ Look at that shit.

I was actually FOR that, because it would have helped keep psychopaths from shooting people for no reason. Apparently so were like 90% of the rest of America. What the fuck happened? This is the same reason I got angry with the president in the first place. He proposed an assault weapon ban, and everyone yelled at him for it, but he still planned to go ahead with it, and it didn't even make it to the polls.

Now the senate is doing the SAME THING, only they are succeeding in ignoring the will of the people. Yes. I mad.

What am I missing here? Someone help me out, because this looks to me like a direct attack on american liberty.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: skyblue1 on May 08, 2013, 06:23:16 PM
I was busy crowing about the awesome success of defeating the assault weapons ban before it got off the ground that I didn't even notice that the proposal for stricter background checks was also defeated.

wut  http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/17/177638177/senate-rejects-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-sales (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/17/177638177/senate-rejects-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-sales) <------ Look at that shit.

I was actually FOR that, because it would have helped keep psychopaths from shooting people for no reason. Apparently so were like 90% of the rest of America. What the fuck happened? This is the same reason I got angry with the president in the first place. He proposed an assault weapon ban, and everyone yelled at him for it, but he still planned to go ahead with it, and it didn't even make it to the polls.

Now the senate is doing the SAME THING, only they are succeeding in ignoring the will of the people. Yes. I mad.

What am I missing here? Someone help me out, because this looks to me like a direct attack on american liberty.
Then why are you supporting those asses
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 06:30:28 PM
I was busy crowing about the awesome success of defeating the assault weapons ban before it got off the ground that I didn't even notice that the proposal for stricter background checks was also defeated.

wut  http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/17/177638177/senate-rejects-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-sales (http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/04/17/177638177/senate-rejects-expanded-background-checks-for-gun-sales) <------ Look at that shit.

I was actually FOR that, because it would have helped keep psychopaths from shooting people for no reason. Apparently so were like 90% of the rest of America. What the fuck happened? This is the same reason I got angry with the president in the first place. He proposed an assault weapon ban, and everyone yelled at him for it, but he still planned to go ahead with it, and it didn't even make it to the polls.

Now the senate is doing the SAME THING, only they are succeeding in ignoring the will of the people. Yes. I mad.

What am I missing here? Someone help me out, because this looks to me like a direct attack on american liberty.
Then why are you supporting those asses

I don't actually support any political party. I back whoever is protecting my freedoms. I supported the ones who promised that assault rifles would be left alone, and everyone seemed to agree that stricter background checks was a fine idea.

I don't understand.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: skyblue1 on May 08, 2013, 06:37:38 PM
Cant have it both ways

Tell the NRA and special interest groups to back off

They control what goes on in Congress

Background checks passed 54 to 46

because of republican filibuster it took 60 to pass

Like I say blame the money people

Its about control
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 06:42:20 PM
Control? Controlling efforts to keep guns out of the hands of psychopaths? You'll have to excuse my overbearing attitude on this, but I like to understand pressing issues like this. Perhaps they had a valid reason for doing it, I don't know. I literally have no idea whats really going on with this one, to be perfectly honest. I know the total votes and everything, but I also see that the whopping 90% will of the people was basely misrepresented.

Excuse me if i'm wrong, but it isn't actually up to the senate hoe this country is run is it? They do what we tell them to. Is that not what is supposed to happen?
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 08, 2013, 06:43:59 PM
No politicians are for the people. They are only for themselves. If you support the system at all, you support your oppressors.

You don't have gunlaws any near what we have here - yet.

"Democracy" is a fraud. It's not about the people having the power at all.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 06:47:03 PM
But thats the way the system is set up, Lit. We have a house and a senate and a president and a state so that we can tell our collective will to and have it carried out.

At least thats how its SUPPOSED TO GODDAMN WORK. I swear to god, this shit just seems to be getting worse. Every single day, its another dissapointment.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: skyblue1 on May 08, 2013, 07:00:32 PM
Its all about controlling their congressman and senators

If they didnt vote the way the NRA wanted, or the way Grover Norquist or the Koch brothers wanted, they would be blacklisted with no financial support in their primaries

Its about controlling the government

Its not about the black man in the white house or guns or citizens for that matter
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 07:08:12 PM
Well then i'm just going to research until I find definitive proof of SOMETHING untoward, and i'm going to ram it right up their asses. I can be pretty damned determined, and I know how to use the internet to "effect" things.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: skyblue1 on May 08, 2013, 07:13:29 PM
You have been blaming the wrong people for the woes of the country

The very people who are on the one hand inciting those like you to revolution are the very people actually controlling what happens in our congress

The control congress with the money

They control you with fear of the 'nigger' and big government choking you

It aint the government (Obama) squeezing your balls

Its people that want complete control of our government and the citizens of the country

If they incite you to rebel they have reason to declare martial law

While you are busy tring to bring down your government, they are busy coming in the back door

Sooooo

go change your underwear, take a shower

and get on the right side
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 07:25:44 PM
I only believe Obama should be impeached for failing in his duties representing the will of the people(proposing an assault rifle ban, even though it was SEVERELY frowned upon). I mean, thats a pretty big fucking deal, dude. I also believe all the senators responsible for this filibuster should be kicked out. Banned from government for life.

I have nothing against black people, Sky. Nigger is a funny word to me, and thats all. I don't really care about emotional intelligence, sorry. And I still think a revolution is necessary, and has been going on for some time now because of crap like this. We need humble folks representing us. People who do what we tell them to do, and make decisions in accordance with the agreement they made upon being placed in seats of power by us.

Until this happens, i'm going to continue to be EXTREMELY aggressive towards big government, and reductions in civil liberty. The PEOPLE were for this bill. Nintey percent of them. Yes, the people's will is what is important. Fuck the government, and fuck special intrest groups. Fuck them right in the ass, until they do what they're told.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 08, 2013, 07:27:33 PM
This said. At least the assault weapons ban was defeated. I forget the guy's name, but he said he was going to introduce the background check proposal again. Maybe next time eh?
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 10, 2013, 06:01:07 PM
One more thing...

Rather than peddling uninformed fantasies, you should instead be learning about just how often guns are used in self-defense. In the US, depending on how you calculate your stats, guns are used in self-defense between tens and hundreds of thousands of times per year:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense)

Even using the lowest estimates, guns are used in the US in self-defense more often than they are used in murders and other criminal shootings.

Another interesting fact is that gun violence in the US is concentrated in poor, urban, minority areas - which are areas that already have the strongest gun control laws in the country. This is why blacks are 10 times more likely to be involved in a fatal shooting than whites:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/feature/wp/2013/03/22/gun-deaths-shaped-by-race-in-america/)

If you want to solve gun crime, then start by fixing the problem in the poor, urban, minority neighborhoods where guns that are already illegal are still being used to kill with wild abandon. Telling us that the solution to this problem requires disarming law abiding people - people who use their guns in self-defense more often than guns are used in criminal shootings - is just a complete load of horse shit that no one who is familiar with the actual facts will ever buy. The U.S. is not the U.K.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 10, 2013, 09:56:21 PM
Gun control is a divisive subject. A distraction.

Looking here while they steal your wallet. Income inequality is what they are trying to steer your focus away from.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Jesse on May 13, 2013, 10:44:41 AM
I somewhat agree with Mcjagger. It defintly is a distraction, and a petty one at that. Its like Alien thingy of course they are real but it sure does play into the governments favor to call anyone who believes in them a quack. As far as Guns are concerned they will never be able to take your guns away. There are probably more guns in this country then people, and the only way they would ever be able to attempt such a feet is to lockdown the whole country under some martial law bullshit, which will never happen. I don't think

The short of it is, If you are worried about the government taking away your guns just go buy some more. buy a whole house and fill the entire thing with guns. then when you see da bad guys coming for your weapons, start shooting!  >:D
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 13, 2013, 10:59:24 AM
Gun control isn't there to save people from getting killed. It's there so that it will be easier to kill people - for the government.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 13, 2013, 07:23:35 PM
Gun control is a divisive subject. A distraction.

Looking here while they steal your wallet. Income inequality is what they are trying to steer your focus away from.

Goddamit YES.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 14, 2013, 11:17:37 PM
"Democracy" is a fraud. It's not about the people having the power at all.

This is something we actually agree on. Sort of.

I don't think it's a conscious fraud, though, I believe it's a delusion. I've found that quite a few politicians believe in it, for some reason, which is quite bizarre when you see them use the system to their advantage. They abuse the very principles while believing their abuse proves democracy works.

It's baffling.

But then, I don't know of any system that actually works.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 15, 2013, 02:13:43 AM
Modern Times (http://wiki.ic.org/wiki/Modern_Times)  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 15, 2013, 05:33:36 AM
I'm rooting on a representative communist system.

Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 15, 2013, 07:07:39 AM
Communism will eventually lead to a Soviet state, though  :(
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 15, 2013, 11:43:06 PM
Communism as a concept is just as failed as the rest of them.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 17, 2013, 06:16:11 AM
Communism as a concept is just as failed as the rest of them.
not practiced the correct way.
Each communist power in the past has been a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: BadgerTom on May 17, 2013, 06:34:44 AM
And you think that if the US of A embraced wonderfull soviet principles that it wouldn't also become a dictatorship!?

Rofl.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 17, 2013, 07:31:55 AM
Individual anarchism is the only right way  :viking:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 17, 2013, 08:04:01 AM
And you think that if the US of A embraced wonderfull soviet principles that it wouldn't also become a dictatorship!?

Rofl.
i guess you would also need a responsible media and the electoral process.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 17, 2013, 01:24:28 PM
Individual anarchism is the only right way  :viking:

LOL no it isn't, dude.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 19, 2013, 10:19:45 AM
Oh btw. Heres some shit that's happening in a so called "safe zone" (the UK), where there aren't any evil guns to MURDER people with.

Sharia courts "as consensual as rape"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9621319/Sharia-courts-as-consensual-as-rape-House-of-Lords-told.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9621319/Sharia-courts-as-consensual-as-rape-House-of-Lords-told.html)

Female genital mutilation - unreported, ignored, unpunished
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/special-report-female-genital-mutilation--unreported-ignored-and-unpunished-8439824.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/special-report-female-genital-mutilation--unreported-ignored-and-unpunished-8439824.html)

Migrants from Europe bringing girls to tolerant Britain for genital mutilation
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/migrants-from-europe-bringing-girls-to-tolerant-britain-for-genital-mutilation-7965148.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/migrants-from-europe-bringing-girls-to-tolerant-britain-for-genital-mutilation-7965148.html)

Saudi school lessons in UK concern government
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11799713 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11799713)

BBC's Panorama claims Islamic schools teach anti-Semitism and homophobia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/22/bbc-panorama-islamic-schools-antisemitism (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/22/bbc-panorama-islamic-schools-antisemitism)

British schools where girls must wear the Islamic veil
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8038820/British-schools-where-girls-must-wear-the-Islamic-veil.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8038820/British-schools-where-girls-must-wear-the-Islamic-veil.html)

Religious butchering now commonplace in Britain
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9245850/Religious-butchering-now-commonplace-in-Britain-leading-vet-claims.html? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/9245850/Religious-butchering-now-commonplace-in-Britain-leading-vet-claims.html?)

Ex-soldier jailed for burning Koran
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-13119241 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-13119241)

Muslim spared prison for anti-Semitic incitement to violence
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/60850/antisemitic-blogger-escapes-prison-term (http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/60850/antisemitic-blogger-escapes-prison-term)

Jailed for anti-Islam images in window
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/Gainsborough-man-jailed-anti-Islam-images-flat/story-15455418-detail/story.html (http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/Gainsborough-man-jailed-anti-Islam-images-flat/story-15455418-detail/story.html)

Anti gay bigotry, the East London Mosque, and Lutfur Rahman
http://hurryupharry.org/2011/07/04/anti-gay-bigotry-the-east-london-mosque-and-lutfur-rahman/ (http://hurryupharry.org/2011/07/04/anti-gay-bigotry-the-east-london-mosque-and-lutfur-rahman/)

East London Mosque breaks its promise on homophobic speakers after just eight days
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100094001/east-london-mosque-breaks-its-promise-on-homophobic-speakers-after-just-eight-days/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100094001/east-london-mosque-breaks-its-promise-on-homophobic-speakers-after-just-eight-days/)




Just saiyan. ;)
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 19, 2013, 11:33:26 AM
It's like a smorgasbord of religious bigotry.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Scrapheap on May 19, 2013, 11:35:35 AM
"Democracy" is a fraud. It's not about the people having the power at all.

 :indeed:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Scrapheap on May 19, 2013, 11:43:39 AM
Gun control is a divisive subject. A distraction.

Looking here while they steal your wallet. Income inequality is what they are trying to steer your focus away from.

Although this is true...

I'm rooting on a representative communist system.

Your solution is wrong.

You cant fix the coercive power of income inequality with the coercive tool of firepower inequality.

You've simply exchanged one from of oppression for another.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 19, 2013, 11:46:46 AM
Voluntaryist is a new movement promoted by the oligarchy to get you to accept that they have snatched the American dream and you don't belong.
Voluntaryists are to be used.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Scrapheap on May 19, 2013, 12:04:31 PM
Voluntaryist is a new movement promoted by the oligarchy to get you to accept that they have snatched the American dream and you don't belong.
Voluntaryists are to be used.

Hitting the crack pipe again??
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 19, 2013, 12:14:02 PM
Newly promoted by talking points, cable news and social media.
Congrats, you are easily convinced.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Scrapheap on May 19, 2013, 12:20:31 PM
Newly promoted by talking points, cable news and social media.
Congrats, you are easily convinced.

Hitting the crack pipe AND projecting. :jaded:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 19, 2013, 12:22:24 PM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 19, 2013, 12:26:27 PM
Newly promoted by talking points, cable news and social media.
Congrats, you are easily convinced.

Hitting the crack pipe AND projecting. :jaded:
im rubber and you're glue...
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 19, 2013, 12:38:53 PM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed

Okay lit. I'll bite. You want to explain what you mean? How this is even possible, for one? Maybe how shit would go down?
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 19, 2013, 12:45:14 PM
Why wouldn't it work?
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 19, 2013, 12:51:29 PM
Why wouldn't it work?

Because people are dumb. Explain how it would, dude. Honestly. If you just let everyone do what they want, a smarter group would WANT to rule the world, and a government would form anyway. People would be eslaved even worse than they are now. Tell me how this wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 19, 2013, 01:00:13 PM
You do it on a small scale. Everyone must be conscious about how important it is not to let anyone oppress you.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 19, 2013, 01:03:44 PM
You do it on a small scale. Everyone must be conscious about how important it is not to let anyone oppress you.

America was once conscious of this, and has slowly been turned into a nanny state, where the loudest and most influential voice is the Concerned Mothers Against Harmful Things party. The idea of liberty now is to choose from a range of options these people graciously provide.

Explain how this bullshit will not repeat, and repeat, and repeat. As far as I can see its happened to other countries too, dude.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 19, 2013, 01:06:12 PM
It will be hard. I don't really expect it to happen during my lifetime.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: RageBeoulve on May 19, 2013, 01:08:05 PM
Mmm. Indeed.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 19, 2013, 03:46:03 PM
Why wouldn't it work?

Because people are dumb. Explain how it would, dude. Honestly. If you just let everyone do what they want, a smarter group would WANT to rule the world, and a government would form anyway. People would be eslaved even worse than they are now. Tell me how this wouldn't happen.
its like when cops go after street gangs.
They have learned not to take out the top guy.  Because it creates a vacuum and the void us always filled by an even more brutal dictator than before.  Street gangs are a brutal business.  The most brutal rises to the top.

Same thing I suspect would happen if we did away with all governments.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 19, 2013, 11:32:47 PM
Communism as a concept is just as failed as the rest of them.
not practiced the correct way.
Each communist power in the past has been a dictatorship.

The theory is flawed so the realisation will be, too.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 19, 2013, 11:35:13 PM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed

Not by the authorities, no, but by others. It is the theory of the strongest and the fittest, basically.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 19, 2013, 11:36:23 PM
You do it on a small scale. Everyone must be conscious about how important it is not to let anyone oppress you.

It might work for a while in a small, closed system. But there's no such thing in Real Life.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Calavera on May 20, 2013, 12:02:01 AM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed

You're dreaming.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 20, 2013, 12:51:49 AM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed

Not by the authorities, no, but by others. It is the theory of the strongest and the fittest, basically.

I don't see why anyone would oppress anyone more than in this system. In this system any psychopath who reaches a position of authority is almost guaranteed of getting away with oppressing others. Other authorities support an authorithy abusing its power.

In an anarchy there is no hierarchy and no monopoly on violence. Everybody who wants has guns. Thus no-one can simply oppress anyone else. If some people try to create a hierarchy and a monopoly on violence, it will be easy to stop them, if everyone is determined to do so.

The paradox is that everyone who says that anarchism is impossible projects the worst traits of the state on the anarchistic system, although in an anarchistic system there will be no such traits, because an anarchistic system doesn't have the structure that allows those kinds of things to happen.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 20, 2013, 12:56:53 AM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed

You're dreaming.

I'm dreaming because we are just a few thosand persons believing in this. If 99.99% of the population think that this is the best system there is and that a working anarchy is impossible, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 20, 2013, 03:30:45 AM
This so called civilization is perverted. It is perverted deepest down, so if you remove the perverted things in it, it will cease to exist. But as long as you don't remove it, there will never be a real change.

I'm absolutely convinced that this sick system eventually will fall. But I'm also pretty sure that it won't happen during my lifetime. For "civilization" to fall globally, all economies must collapse worse than it has done in Greece, for instance.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Calavera on May 20, 2013, 03:32:39 AM
The problem with such ideals is that people will always be there to pervert them.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 20, 2013, 03:37:34 AM
In an anarchy that kind of people will be shot by the honest and good citizens. In this system that kind of people usually reach a position where they are untouchable.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Calavera on May 20, 2013, 05:04:47 AM
In an anarchy that kind of people will be shot by the honest and good citizens. In this system that kind of people usually reach a position where they are untouchable.

Your view of human nature is quite naive. Humans may do a lot of good things for others, but it's all conditional and there'll never be 100% honesty and goodness from anybody in this real life world. What makes us human isn't just the good stuff but also the bad.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: TheoK on May 20, 2013, 05:23:24 AM
I don't think that people are angels. On the contrary: most people would want an anarchistic society out of egoistic reasons, because an anarchist society is the only one where your freedom is only limited by the freedom of others. In a state 99% of the laws aren't there for justice but to keep people in check.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 20, 2013, 01:52:26 PM
In an anarchy that kind of people will be shot by the honest and good citizens. In this system that kind of people usually reach a position where they are untouchable.

Your view of human nature is quite naive. Humans may do a lot of good things for others, but it's all conditional and there'll never be 100% honesty and goodness from anybody in this real life world. What makes us human isn't just the good stuff but also the bad.
have you met me? I am 100% good and genuine.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Calavera on May 20, 2013, 05:21:35 PM
So I take it you've never told any lies?

Good according to who anyway?
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 20, 2013, 05:28:02 PM
So I take it you've never told any lies?

Good according to who anyway?
i am a recovering liar. In lied in my youth.  Gave them up, since they were too much work.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Calavera on May 20, 2013, 09:40:48 PM
That's what they all say, man. Liaholics in denial. :zoinks:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: sg1008 on May 21, 2013, 12:06:34 AM
Is it okay to let go of that damn second, or are we still hanging on?


:P
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Scrapheap on May 21, 2013, 12:23:42 AM
Is it okay to let go of that damn second, or are we still hanging on?


:P

:oneliner:

:fp:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 21, 2013, 07:42:23 AM
That's what they all say, man. Liaholics in denial. :zoinks:
but I've put all my faith in a higher power. I've let go and let god.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Scrapheap on May 22, 2013, 07:19:13 PM
Constitutional Peasants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKIWjnEPNY#ws)
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 22, 2013, 11:08:28 PM
You will not get a good society with communism either. Individual anarchism is the only society where the individual isn't oppressed

Not by the authorities, no, but by others. It is the theory of the strongest and the fittest, basically.

I don't see why anyone would oppress anyone more than in this system. In this system any psychopath who reaches a position of authority is almost guaranteed of getting away with oppressing others. Other authorities support an authorithy abusing its power.

In an anarchy there is no hierarchy and no monopoly on violence. Everybody who wants has guns. Thus no-one can simply oppress anyone else. If some people try to create a hierarchy and a monopoly on violence, it will be easy to stop them, if everyone is determined to do so.

The paradox is that everyone who says that anarchism is impossible projects the worst traits of the state on the anarchistic system, although in an anarchistic system there will be no such traits, because an anarchistic system doesn't have the structure that allows those kinds of things to happen.

Basic human nature, Lit. If you are stronger and you want something from the weaker, be it the weaker person's wife, land, possessions or something else, the weaker person will suffer. There's no built-in mechanism in an anarchy to prevent it from happening, especially if the weaker one cannot find a stronger allied. Guns or no guns.

It's yet another theory that does not work.

There are currently no anarchies of note, afaik, and there hasn't been anything sufficiently large or lasting, ever. You as a student of history should know that.

I won't bother you with the Somalia argument, since I happen to agree with you there. It's not an anarchy in that sense of the word.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 22, 2013, 11:10:06 PM
This so called civilization is perverted. It is perverted deepest down, so if you remove the perverted things in it, it will cease to exist. But as long as you don't remove it, there will never be a real change.

I'm absolutely convinced that this sick system eventually will fall. But I'm also pretty sure that it won't happen during my lifetime. For "civilization" to fall globally, all economies must collapse worse than it has done in Greece, for instance.

The system will most likely prevail, in that it will continue to exist in one form or another for as long as there are larger groups of humans sharing space on the planet, but the individual states come and go.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: odeon on May 22, 2013, 11:11:31 PM
In an anarchy that kind of people will be shot by the honest and good citizens. In this system that kind of people usually reach a position where they are untouchable.

Your view of human nature is quite naive. Humans may do a lot of good things for others, but it's all conditional and there'll never be 100% honesty and goodness from anybody in this real life world. What makes us human isn't just the good stuff but also the bad.
have you met me? I am 100% good and genuine.

Yes, people, McJ is the model after which the rest of us should be molded. :P
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: McGiver on May 23, 2013, 03:09:25 PM
The fittest can be overcome, quite easily, by the masses.

It is the species which adapts best to a changing environment that prevails.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: "couldbecousin" on March 19, 2017, 07:48:47 PM
The fittest can be overcome, quite easily, by the masses.

It is the species which adapts best to a changing environment that prevails.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade   :arrr:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Icequeen on March 19, 2017, 08:27:12 PM
The fittest can be overcome, quite easily, by the masses.

It is the species which adapts best to a changing environment that prevails.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade   :arrr:

Wow...those are some tough ass little Mofo's.  :zombiefuck:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Lestat on March 19, 2017, 11:03:03 PM
Quite. Resistant little bastards, they can survive hard vacuum, dump them in space, and they can survive it. It is likely that their cellular composition consisting of a large amount of the sugar trehalose is responsible for this. Trehalose is primarily a fungal product, a disaccharide, first discovered in ergot of rye, (Claviceps purpurea) sclerotia, the overwintering structures formed after parasitic replication in grasses. Trehalose appears to function as a cryoprotectant, preserving cell architecture after freezing and allowing the cell to bounce back alive.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Jack on March 20, 2017, 04:12:01 PM
The fittest can be overcome, quite easily, by the masses.

It is the species which adapts best to a changing environment that prevails.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade   :arrr:
That's awesome.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: "couldbecousin" on March 21, 2017, 05:59:28 AM
The fittest can be overcome, quite easily, by the masses.

It is the species which adapts best to a changing environment that prevails.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade   :arrr:
That's awesome.

  Further awesomeness ... :pirate:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: "couldbecousin" on March 21, 2017, 06:01:10 AM
The fittest can be overcome, quite easily, by the masses.

It is the species which adapts best to a changing environment that prevails.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade   :arrr:

Wow...those are some tough ass little Mofo's.  :zombiefuck:

  Just read that they're also called "water bears."  The photo in the Wiki looks like a plush Muppet.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Gopher Gary on March 21, 2017, 08:53:44 PM
  Further awesomeness ... :pirate:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile


Extremophile sounds naughty.  :zoinks:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: "couldbecousin" on March 22, 2017, 05:11:59 AM
  Further awesomeness ... :pirate:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile


Extremophile sounds naughty.  :zoinks:

  They're even naughtier than you!   :police:  :gopher: :police:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Gopher Gary on March 22, 2017, 05:22:15 PM
  Further awesomeness ... :pirate:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile


Extremophile sounds naughty.  :zoinks:

  They're even naughtier than you!   :police:  :gopher: :police:

That's because they're so extreme.  :zoinks:
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Yuri Bezmenov on February 05, 2018, 08:01:24 PM
Communism as a concept is just as failed as the rest of them.
not practiced the correct way.
Each communist power in the past has been a dictatorship.

And also everyone will be in the future.

There can never be such a thing as "good communism".

McFagger could be such an empty headed idealist.
Title: Re: Okay hang on just a damn second.
Post by: Lestat on February 05, 2018, 09:28:44 PM
Tardigrades are some really, really tough little bastards. I'd hate to meet a flesheating tardigrade of human size or larger. Not without a flamethrower.

Surviving the anoxic, bitterly cold, irradiated, hard vacuum of space, shit, if life here started as particulates spiked with molecules which went on to form life eventually, or even something living came down here from outer space.. something like that, so small would have a very low terminal velocity and not drop fatally. And they might well survive re-entry IMO. Unless it was on a large object that heated up as such, but tiny, tiny grains or organisms themselves might, presenting such little mass as to heat up very little through friction, especially through the cold, thin air, in an already cryogenically inanimate form....it wouldn't altogether surprise me for a tardigrade, or a radioresistant bacterium. Who knows, LUCA might just be a (very) little green man.

And some extremophiles are just plain WEIRD, surviving around marine hydrothermal vents that under the massive pressure of so much water above, the water coming from them can be hot enough to melt lead. And weird stuff like bacteria reproducing so slowly that they might only divide once in a century or even longer. Creatures like snottites at regular pressures, living as colonies which breath H2S (hydrogen sulfide is the noxious gas that at low concentrations gives rotten eggs their nasty stench, from decomposition of aminoacids containing sulfur such as cysteine and cystine, methionine etc, and at larger concentrations, to us oxygen-breathers using iron based blood oxygen transport molecules like haemoglobin is as deadly and potentially even more insidious than hydrogen cyanide). Snottites are colonial critters that hang from cave ceilings in waterlogged or highly water flooded environments and breath in H2S, oxidizing it to sulfuric acid. So they breath poison gas and shit H2SO4!

And there are even organisms which thrive in acidic lakes with a PH equal to concentrated sulfuric acid solutions, or that are chock-full of arsenic.

Its less of a question as to what  will support life...as I see things it what WON'T support live, or at least permit it to transit through such a space as they cannot actively thrive in and go into a state of stasis to re-animate when they arrive somewhere suitable for them to live in.

I myself, have seen with my own eyes, to my considerable surprise, microbial colonies growing on the top of old solutions of caustic soda (sodium hydroxide/NaOH, a pretty strong alkali that can easily cause burns to human skin and tissues), that were so strong I'd not have dipped my electronic PH meter in them for fear of corroding or etching the glass electrode, and were so concentrated as to be viscous. Like a kind of thin syrup or diluted honey in consistency, and close to or saturated with NaOH! yeah, mold, growing on that, which takes some doing to survive for a microorganism.

There are even bacterial colonies that EAT radiation, not just that survive it, but that feed on it. And also radioresistant bacteria colonies on the inside of the contaminated chernobyl reactor, that survive, and thrive there in an environment that would deliver us a lethal dose of radiation within moments. Minutes at best and that are so radio-hot they would literally cook us alive as well.

Seems that somewhere, something is hard enough to survive even the nastiest of conditions. The combination of harsh environments that is space (hard vacuum, intense solar radiation, freezing cold, no oxygen, no water, no food no anything good for a living being as we know one) like a tardigrade, that is one of the most well-adapted, hardy sons of bitches ever, that we know of. Damn.